#and its like reading a trashy pulp novel to reading an Actual Novel with Depth and that could actually make me cry. All cause of translation

[i-got-the-feels]

highlight what you like or what applies to you

thanks amu and mor for tagging me - so sorry for getting so late to this : p @liyazaki @ommited-miscellaneously

hot shower or cold shower // texting calling or email discord // earbuds or headphones (they have saved my phone falling down so many times) // paperback hardcover or ebook (read in dark and cheaper on pocket) // matte or gel // 12 hour clock or 24 hour clock (this is too much maths for anxious brain)// blue or green // sunsets or sunrises // tulips or orchids (any and all flower in the garden and not plucked)// candle light or moonlight // sci-fi and fantasy or horror // pen or pencil // pandas or koalas (ALL OF THEM ANIMALS HAPPY AND SAFE) // gold or silver // sneakers or boots // denim jacket or leather jacket it is so hot NONE and even if cold i dont like jackets, hoodies ftw // pink or purple // chocolate or sour candy (you cant sit with us, sour candy) // deodorant or perfume // drive-in movie theater or the cinema // pastel colors (AND dark colors like whatever color and its closest version to black, favourite in purples and blues) or neutral earth tones// lemonade or fruit juice // past or future//

BL VERSION

crying in the shower or making out in the shower (#savewater) // give cute boy line ID or stalk his IG // share his earbuds or share his closet // manga or manwha (i am not cultured enough to know the difference so i am gonna say memes and novels) // long dangly silver earring (woof woof grr grr) or dark leather cuff // time loop or reincarnation (please my physics is bad i cant do time travel)// blue engineering smock or red engineering smock // kisses at the beach or kisses in the mountains // cactus or chili plant (i assume the one we can use in food- #savemoney) // fairy lights or spot lighting (please my anxiety ass cant survive that)// ghost boyfriend or vampire lover // hard sub or soft sub // stray cat or … actually that’s your only option (always choose cats AND puppies) // Hawaiian shirt or blue shorts // evil ex-girlfriend or predatory fujoshi (listen they suck but evil ex is just lazy and bad writing) // suit jacket or leather jacket (I refuse to chose. Both can be hot based on the aura exuded by the person wearing it) // high school or university // kitchen drama or office drama // forehead kisses or cheek kisses // Viki or GaGaOOLaLa (too broke for either) // Japanese arthouse depth or Korean high concept // pink milk or yakult // censored Chinese BL or trashy Thai pulps (Thai pulps are my shut off the brain show, I don't think censored bl where I have to use my brain to find the subtext and metaphors is my thing PLUS THEY SO LONG ) // body swap or dead body (I HATE deaths its sad and sometimes badly written for shock value) // sexy or story (good story is the sexiest but yeah sometimes when characters with great potential (mhm tharntype, fish under the sky, my gear and your gown - sexy becomes the story) // back hugs or lap sitting (my otps can multi task) // piggybacks or cradle carry

I tag @boysbeloving @surajmukhis @morathicain @smittenskitten @snimeat @ommited-miscellaneously @sereinartemishan @mileskinn @bisexualhedgehog @milkpansa and anyone who wants to do this fun littol game

#Ask game #I want to do a Bollywood version of thus #Should I make one?

[rigelmejo]

I’ve read parts of this article on Pride and Prejudice translation three times now and so I suppose I should share it.

Misinterpreting Jane Austen? A Feminist Perspective on the Chinese Versions of Pride and Prejudice

http://jasna.org/publications-2/persuasions-online/vol38no1/yi/

It really makes me think about how easy it is to have huge themes in a work just lost or muddled intensely if they aren’t paid particular nuanced focus to during translation. How each line could have more nuance to it then a surface level “any synonym will get the point across” and how just lacking cultural context can cause big points in a sentence to be abandoned in translation (the use of “rational creatures” in Pride and Prejudice is a huge reference to bringing up feminist thoughts, but read literally could be translated as ‘i think’ or ‘i’m reasonable’ or ‘i’m regular’ and could miss a big chunk of meaning being conveyed). Meaning is usually lost somewhat in translation because its hard to maintain the nuance of the original words, even if you know all the context and are prioritizing themes in each sentence! So of course its a struggle.

I just think its something to be mindful when engaging with translations in general. And certainly webnovel ones where so often the translators are fan translators with various skill levels in language and/or translation and/or in meaning of the deeper themes of a text, and paid translators on big webnovel sites, often translating under time constraints to do a job Fast rather than ‘as close to accurate as possible’ which could take a lot more time. That’s not even getting into the machine translations (and cleaned up mtls) of webnovels, that some actual webnovel sites use (which can have very little if any editing done), and some fans do when its the best/fastest chance to ever read the novel (in which case even if its edited by people for improvements over time it will be constrained by the original mtl translator program’s failures in word choice and unawareness of story nuances). It’s already a mess to judge a work of art made in another culture, without being aware of that culture’s artistic goals and norms and expectations etc. Those values must be acknowledged, because to judge it as something outside its context removes so much. That applies to translations too - which can maybe be interpreted on their merit as localizations. When there is one - like maybe Drakengard 3 and if its localization changes were a good or bad thing for its story in the context of an english speaking market? or if Final Fantasy XV localization changes were? which i imagine the localization teams themselves had to judge its work on. On the case of like “how does this work as a localization” but still the questions of its original context in its original lanuage, intent, comes up. Do you get rid of ramen in favor of a different food? Do you get rid of San and say “Mr” - what is kept, why is it kept, does it require outside understanding of context, is that worth keeping even if it does? 

Like perhaps the pride and prejudice translator changed “rational creature” to “ordinary person” because they wanted to abandon explaining the feminist idea of “rational creature” altogether, considering that context too far removed from a translation, and instead decided on making the line mean more broadly “like a normal person my rejection is serious - i’m not playing a silly game with you.” which is roughly fair in meaning, but has lost the concept of “i’m rational like Any Person, even though you consider women irrational that is incorrect.” I see why the translation could have made sense to do - and its what i’m sure localization translators deal with deciding every day - “what do we keep for overall story’s meaning understood by this new target audience?” versus “what details do we abandon at the cost of nuance, because it might make it harder for this target audience to connect to the overall story?” etc.

My point i suppose is just, sometimes I see arguments about webnovels and their meanings as understood BY the translation. And many people much better with words than me have made good points that one can’t judge a work based on english speaking culture standards when it wasn’t made in that context, was not aimed at that target audience, and has context surrounding it that in general an english audience will not be aware of. Just to add to that - the translations themselves.

The translations also are going to have context missing, or have changed some context and nuance to translators tastes. Like localizing to try and make it more comprehensible to the audience, or because the cultural reference needs some ‘equivalent’ the translator thinks the english audience will be more likely to know - i immediately think of Word of Honor choosing “chevalier” for “daxia” and “river of lethe” and greek myth metaphors, instead of the actual concept the dialogue refers to (and Word of Honor was professionally translated). Even among professional differences - just look at The Untamed that has different versions translating “zhiji” as bossom friend, good friend, soulmate, and gongzi as Childe, and names as just a whole range of weirdly varying ones different from what’s actually said. A lot of webnovels are not professionally translated (and of the ones that are, if they have speed deadlines they also might not get an ideal amount of time to decide how to ‘most accurately’ maintain the nuance, if that’s even a goal of a specific translator because different translators have different goals). 

Not only is it not something created in the english audience culture (so why compare it on those specific cultural expectations it wasn’t made for), but also each translation is not going to be a fully accurate depiction of the original. Every translation will vary. Some translations will leave out cultural nuance, or even change it, or just not notice it was there to begin with. Word choice alone will change the meaning of some sentences and dialogue - and it can be as simple as one seemingly straightforward word change (like “rational creature” in Pride and Prejudice). Translation changes can affect the meaning you get from a story when its done professionally, when its been done and tried different ways multiple times for decades! Surely translations done for webnovels are going to have points where its like... to judge it is to at most interpret this translator’s work. Because there isn’t a full picture of the original work, a translation can’t give you that. Like others have said, its not great trying to expect works from different cultures to match up to a different culture’s expectations/aspects, but then also translations themselves will fail to retain aspects - or will all highlight such aspects in different ways and also in different ways for the reader to interpret (leaving more original context with footnotes, simplifying details and removing authors nuance, changing context to try and come up with an equivalent the reader might understand easier, etc). And that doesn’t even cover how any machine translator usage is going to also be destroying so much nuance, context, meaning, and even changing it in random ways - if its used for any of the steps, before the translator’s personal goals even start affecting the translation’s shape and meaning etc.

I have a huge newfound respect for the people translating Haruki Murakami... if Pride and Prejudice is this easy to change themes on/interpret differently even though its overall a very straightforward novel structure, I can only imagine how hard Haruki Murakami’s meanings and themes are to preserve...

#rant #april #translations #i just think about this a lot. #1 its a big reason i'm considering reading the mdzstranslations group's version of mdzs - i suspect #a number of complaints about mdzs come from translation choices. because that's been true with much of mxtx's writing #i saw the 'simple' svsss translation (which is fine and i like it) and a newer one ppl did and the newer one is WAY MORE NUANCED #and its like reading a trashy pulp novel to reading an Actual Novel with Depth and that could actually make me cry. All cause of translation #choices. Priest's writing too... i can thankfully read it in chinese (tho i still miss a ton of cultural nuance obviously) #and in english its translation is SO simplified it misses so much atmospherically and in mood. it makes priest feel like a 'less great write #' but then i read Mo Du/Silent Reading? And edanglarstranslations is one of my FAVORITE translators #i have the chinese novel and when i read? or listen to the chinese audiobook? it matches up wording wise and feeling wise so WELL with #EDanglar's translation of the novel. so translating work affects so MUCH how the story is interpreted. and nuance lost is like seeing a #masterpiece through blurry glasses and fog. u can make out the main impression and if its good then it will touch ppl even in translation. #but the style of translation/choices will effect how BLURRY the audience sees it - whether its black and white or blurry colors. whether its #50 ft away or a mile. it will always be blurry unless read in its original language AND by someone who gets its context/culture. but some #parts can be clearer depending on what translators choose to do. and Which parts are clearer depends on them. #its part of why i usually want to learn to read the languages i Do read? because i hate the blurry picture lol. i want to make it clearer to #myself what they originally intended. even tho its still blurry to me In the language. i at least get more of the original Feel even if #details still get lost on me. #just... whenever i think of this article it reminds me how MUCH translation is an art form with choice #and also how much a translator works - none will likely capture and retain everything in their goal even IF they want to cause #they're all bound to miss some things or have to sacrifice some things #perhaps i should say. we see a blurry image of the original IN a translation. but the translation itself is like an artist REDRAWING a #masterpiece FROM a blurry reference. the translators work IS crisp but details are off/changed/less nuanced/differently nuanced #to see a translators work as identical to the original is wrong because like. no its like an artistic rendition with creative liberties of #a reference image they cannot replicate (because they're using paint and paper and the original is clay with paint missing the translator #cant guess the exact colors of and the translator only has 3 photos of the sculpture. and the translator cant sculpt so they must draw #and a 2D painting just isnt the same u know.