#and then the oath. and what happened to maedhros and maglor. what they have done. it's all so terrible! it's just terrible!

[eccentricmya]

It's interesting how, in the Maedhros poll, everybody believes he started out as a good person. Whether he later turns into a misguided soul, or an anti-hero, or an anti-villain, or straight up villain is up for debate. But the consensus on him being morally good at the beginning is unanimous (or that is how it seems to me, given how I favourably worded the poll).

I find this fascinating because I disagree. I don't think he was ever a good person; he wasn't evil but he wasn't good good.

He showed loyalty and care towards his loved ones, yet he never went out of his way to help others, nor was any particularly good deed attributed to him. Have we seen him interacting in good faith with people outside the Noldor? (But he looked for Dior's twins! Did he find them though? It's the thought that counts! Well, his thought might as well have been to capture them for ransom, who knows?)

Some examples of a character being good are Fingon, he gambled his own life to rescue Maedhros, swept in at Alqualonde thinking the Noldor were being unjustly attacked. Even Caranthir is shown to possess compassion when he rescued the Haladin. Maglor famously slew a traitor, fostered their enemy's twins, and argued to break the Oath. Finrod was often found mingling with Men and willingly walked into the enemy's lair and thus to his death, all to repay a life-saving grace.

Amidst all this, what has Maedhros done to be called 'good'? He stood aside at Losgar but did not take any action to stop it or remedy it. Indeed, he stood aside at all for Fingon, not for Idril, or Finduilas or any of the others. Then he 'begged forgiveness for the desertion in Aman' and gave up his crown to keep peace, but the question arises, why could he not ensure harmony between the factions if he was King and repenting? Was it fear of his faction's arrogance or the distrust of the other? But a king is he that can hold his own, and Maedhros knew he could not do that. I think this act was a play at leaving with his head held high than to have himself be dispossessed of it. He might not be power hungry but he was pride-driven.

Then came the Dagor Bragollach. Most of the Fëanorions are driven out of their strongholds. Where was Maedhros? We have Finrod trying to help his brothers, while he himself is saved by Beor in turn. And in the end, it is Fingolfin challenging Morgoth to get revenge, if not reprieve, for his people. Where was Maedhros? He did deeds of surpassing valour to defend his own fortress. The narrative never has him extending a helping hand to anyone.

Then comes the Union of Maedhros, the alleged helping hand. An attempt to gather Beleriand together to fight against Morgoth. But was it to defeat the Enemy once and for all, ridding the people of his tyranny? Or was it to retrieve the Silmarils? Here too, Maedhros was asking for help, not giving it. Maedhros and his brothers only ever stood against the Vala because of their Oath and personal vendetta. It was never about 'oh but Morgoth is the enemy of all free people'. Their reasons were not altruistic.

Maedhros was never portrayed as virtuous or kind or empathetic. His descriptions in canon (if we can rely on its consistency) all leaned towards how lethal he was. That is not the mark of a good person. It is easy to forget Alqualonde in light of Doriath and Sirion, but never was it said that Maedhros did not kill in the first kinslaying. If the text could note him standing aside at Losgar, if 'good person' Maedhros ever aimed to maim instead of kill at Alqualonde, we would've known. But it didn't happen. He willingly shed blood, made no attempts to diffuse the situation, and agreed with his father 'to seize all the ships and depart suddenly' while leaving the rest behind. All this before his capture and trauma induced personality changes.

He did repent some things: the desertion of Fingolfin, Doriath, Elured and Elurin (note the lack of Alqualonde and Sirion). His repeated offences though, minimise any redemptive value this could've held. Moreover, did he ever send aid to the refugees at Sirion? Did he ever compensate all those who lost their loved ones on the Ice? So did Maedhros truly repent or was it again the thought that counts?

Maedhros may not have started with sins staining his records, but he also did not start with virtues painting him golden. He was deemed a good guy, simply by virtue (one of very few) of not being a bad one.

#this is simply how I chose to read him. not an opinion on your opinion of him #or how he truly is in 'canon' #I greatly prefer to see him as someone masquerading as good or rather trying to be good when he's actually quite grey #maedhros #silmarillion #me back on my 'mae was always bad guy coded' agenda

[cochart]

Some blurbs about Silm headcanon and interpretations that I DON'T enjoy.

I mean, why bother talking about stuff I don't like? But here's some random hump day chit chat. These are just my preferences so I hope people can just fun-read this.

Feanorians forcefully taking the twins: Technically, they end up taking Elrond&Elros away from their people, but I personally don't enjoy the interpretation/characterization of murder bros cruelly/violently taking the kids. My personal interpretation is that Maedhros and Maglor didn't mean to take the kids, but by the time they were done in Sirion, everyone--including their remaining brothers--was dead and Elwing was gone with the Silmaril. So the brothers took the twins as a sort of selfish/twisted repentance. They remember what happened to Elured and Elurin back in Doriath, so maybe that played into their decision. Though their act in the end is as noble as someone running a mother cat over and adopting the kittens, I don't think the two brothers stooped so low as to actually rip away the children from their mother or use them as bargaining chips.

Elwing vs. Feanorians/good vs. evil trope: I don't really find pure, innocent Elwing against evil Feanorians trope that interesting personally. I also don't enjoy Elwing the tragic holy mother characterization. While I don't think she's "bad" for "choosing Silmaril over her kids," I don't think she's a kind of loving, tragic mother either. I always enjoyed portrayals of "less than perfect" moms Tolkien's texts. Elwing loved her kids, but her husband likely mattered to her more. She likes having a family with him, but if she had to choose between being with her husband or her kids, she would probably choose the former. She chooses to stay with her husband after Ulmo turns her into a bird, and Earendil basically chooses Elven fate over Men's fate for her sake. I think for Elwing, who had a pretty depressing life, Earendil was her hope and light, and nobody could take his role, even her own sons. Anyway, I really enjoy seeing women who are not "my kids are my everything" once in a while. As an extension of this, I don't enjoy Elwing bickering with Feanorians and all that drama either.

Maglor being an innocent victim in the final act: I don't think Maglor was an unwilling victim/participant when he and Maedhros went to steal the Silmarils nor was he ever a victim in any of the kinslayings. He probably didn't enjoy any of it, but he knew he couldn't escape the Oath alone so he decided to just face it. He knew what was coming, but he didn't want to leave his brother alone or betray him. So he joins in knowing this would only end badly. Btw I think Maedhros is the type to unalive himself when he's faced with overwhelming tragedy/guilt, but Maglor is the type to live forever in misery because he thinks he deserves an eternity of punishment.

[elerondo]

there is just something so poetic and beautiful about Elrond consistently doing for others what he would have liked for himself :> and i do think he learned the measure of tolerance and benevolence from the feanorian brothers first, before anyone else. it’s very knife twisting of me to say this, but hear me out.

the feanorians were long enemies of his house. had dealt Elros and him a great and terrible sin, and should by any and all accounts kill the twins and be done with them. would not have been the first time or last time, would not have been a surprise to anyone. yet when the Silmarils, the object of their Oath, were deemed lost to them, did the narrative change. quite drastically in fact, for a time. there was a softness that is largely non existent in the silmarillion when it comes to the house of feanor. for about ten years (?) there is no person dying in Maedhros’ and Maglor’s storyline. there is no enmity. it might be quite domestic, such as it never was since the flight of the noldor.

do you not think that Elros and Elrond would have thought the feanorians might kill them at some point in time ? the twins must have thought it. yet it never happens. they are fed, washed, clothed, by two persons instead of one ( their mother. ) it confused the twins. the days turn into weeks turn into months, and love grows. how can it not ? they are all the twins have left.

some in fandom might sue that Elros and Elrond had no choice. they were young children, impressionable. escape from the feanorians largely impossible for their skills. but if Maedhros and Maglor never killed Elros and Elrond after one month, two years, five, then surely there was a choice for the twins to cry, hate, scream, and all that. have you seen who their mother is, her stubbornness and undying pride ? the twins do have agency. they are not dumb. it was a conscious choice of understanding and forgiveness.

#elrond #the silmarillion #tolkien's legendarium #lord of the rings #lotr #✵ ᴇᴠᴇɴ ᴛᴏ ᴛʜᴇ ᴇʟᴅᴇʀ ᴅᴀyꜱ — insight #death tw #murder tw

[memoriapraeteritorumbonorum]

Hi! 💕

Can i request a Maedhros x female elf reader angst fic?

Thank you 💗

Ambar - Maedhros x reader

Word count: 1.5K

Tags: Angst, character death.

Summary: Maitimo's fate catches up to him at last, and there is nothing left to be done.

Author's note: Ambar (Quenya), meaning fate or doom. I had goosebumps writing this. Enjoy!🥀

-

"Where is he?" You were out of breath, almost every ounce of strength left inside you had been spent, desperately searching for him. Maglor’s eyes were wide, gleaming with fear. You did not miss his hand, burned and blistered. 

So they had found them. 

"Where is he, Makalaurë?" Your gaze shifted behind the singer’s figure and immediately, your heart sank. There he stood. Alone, dangerously close to the edge. 

"Maitimo!" You yelled. Anyone would have felt relieved to be reunited with their lover, but something inside of you told you this was no time to feel relief, or any positive emotion, in fact. Something horrible was upon you all, and you knew it. You felt it in your spirit which was intertwined with his — a terrifying premonition was beginning to settle into your bones. 

His face was wet with tears, twisted into an agonizing expression. Red hair sticking to his sweaty face, the fire in his remorseful eyes seemed to be stronger than ever, or maybe it was just the crimson sparks flying all around you that made it seem that way. There was a terrible turmoil raging in him. He was a vision in flames, beautiful, even in his demise. It tore your heart in the most woeful of ways when you realized what was about to happen. Panic was beginning to gnaw at you, growing worse by the second. You felt your knees grow weak. It could not end like this. 

His brows were furrowed, scars on his once gentle features enlightened by the flames below. He winced at his blistered hand growing redder until the smell of burning flesh was strong in the air. But he didn’t let go. He clutched the jewel, bringing it to his chest with a pained expression. You could tell he was trying his hardest to stand straight — in a way, he was fighting for what was left of his dignity to be able to take a last stand before you — however, the pain made him hunch over the closer he brought the Silmaril to his heart, surrendering to his father’s forsaken oath. He was crumbling. Everything he had lived, fostered and practiced was falling to pieces before you. 

"Mai," you begged "Maitimo, my love, please." Your voice was distorted, strained from the cries you were fighting to be able to speak to him. 

The memory of his happy face flashed before your eyes — skin unharmed and clear, blue eyes kind, merciful and full of love. Of hope. He used to be hopeful, determined to make things right, to keep the memory of his father alive. You found yourself searching for that spark, only to be met with nothing. It frightened you how dull his eyes were. How dejected and empty they seemed. Unrecognizable, even. How the fire in his spirit seemed to be going out. This was it. You locked in a stare with him, too stunned to say anything else, for the tears and his state of being had robbed you of your capacity to form a coherent sentence. He seemed so far away. So helpless. You tried taking a step towards him, beckoning him to come closer, only to be met with more tears streaming down his dirty skin, carving rivers into the grime that had accumulated on his hollow cheeks. He shook his head. 

No.

"I’m sorry. I love you. Please, close your eyes."

Those were last words he uttered before he released a breath he had seemed to be holding forever.  Only this time, something new was shining in his eyes — acceptance. There appeared to be one sole way to rid himself of this pain and you both knew it. This burden had accompanied him for what seemed like an eternity, only for all of you to realize it had been in vain. 

For the only remaining testimony of his father’s existence and brilliance to reject him. His brothers. Each of their deaths, their suffering. Everything they had done, for nothing. Maitimo turned towards the edge of the chasm, not looking back. 

No. 

The last glimpse you caught of your One were his tangled copper locks blowing in the wind, for a protective hand was cast over your glossy eyes from behind, just before you could witness the inevitable. 

No, Eru.

Maglor’s arms around your waist were the only thing holding you back from jumping after him. Your wails ripped through the thick air so loudly, any living creature in the farthest of realms would have shuddered at the sheer terror they carried. You screamed and cried like never before, because now, you felt it. The scorching pain shot through you relentlessly, as though you were the one going up in flames. 

He was burning. 

He was burning and there was nothing you could do about it. 

It felt like your heart was being torn out of your chest. Like Morgoth himself was opening your ribcage to rip it out as a souvenir of his malicious deeds, delighting in your torment. You were pulled against Maglor, locked in place no matter how hard you tried to escape. All you could see were flames. The scenery in front of you was eerily contorted and flimmering, partly because of your tears, partly because of the searing heat that was all around you. You found yourself reaching out towards the edge, praying he would float back up into your arms. It felt as though you were no longer in your own body. Your arms suddenly seemed much longer and Maitimo only seemed to stray further away. You felt your connection to his spirit weaken at an alarming rate. 

His fëa was vanishing. 

The security you had fostered for the last century was slipping from your fingers all at once. Your companionship and his vow to always stay by your side were now becoming nothing but a broken promise, a soon to be memory. All you could do was squirm in his brother’s iron arms, limbs flailing around aimlessly. 

You didn’t feel Maglor’s grip on you. You didn’t feel him pulling you close. You didn’t feel your throat growing hoarse from all the screaming, wailing, crying — hopelessly trying to hold on to the last whiff of Maitimo’s spirit. Only when he forcefully turned you away from the abyss to face him did it break over you. And when it did, you found yourself clawing at his hair, his shoulders, his face. Anything to keep you here, to keep you grounded. His arms enveloped your shaking form so very tightly as to remind you that he was here with you. That he was in just as much pain. That he had lost Maitimo in the same way that you had. 

But you needed him. Eru, you needed him here with you. 

Craning your sore neck towards the sky, you let out a cry, channeling all of your hurt and the last ounce of your strength into a plea: 

"Have you no mercy? After everything he has suffered! Eru, if you hear me, give me a sign! Any.. Anything," you finally sank to your knees, falling into the last remaining prince’s frame — knowing there would be no sign coming your way. Not after everything they had done. 

"Please…Bring him back.." Your breaths were shallow, the burning sensation of your One’s cruel fate still vividly inside of you, stripping you of any power you had left. 

The last fragment of Maitimo’s fëa had thus faded from within you. He was removed from your soul for all of eternity. There was no chance of reuniting, for Mandos would not grant it. He was gone. Your One was gone.

And only now did his voice echo inside your head, warning you about how you were risking everything, throwing away any prospects of a happy, promising life if you decided to court him. Warning you about the Oath. How it would loom over you until the end of time, reminding you to let go of any hopes of settling. You had been naive, thinking it wouldn’t catch up to you eventually. Maitimo’s love and partnership had not only clouded your mind but also encouraged you to put off the thought process about your life post-quest. Just what were you to do? He had told you from the very beginning that there would be no chance of a happy ending for you. How could you ever believe your love would shield him from this burden, keep him safe and sound in your embrace and forget about his duty. About his brothers and their unfulfilled lives. Lives that had been stolen and fates that had been cruelly sealed the day they had made this horrible vow. 

Maitimo had never been yours, no matter how many times he had declared it to you. No matter how deeply he had loved and cherished you, held you close to his heart. You had simply forgotten because there was nothing you would ever want more than him. There was nothing your soul burned for more. Nobody. And only now that he had been taken from you did it catch up to you at last. 

He was his father’s son, after all. 

#maedhros x reader #maedhros imagine #fanfic #fanfiction #oneshot #angst #angst no comfort #maitimo #request

[usedtobethelegendcreator]

Situations: Zuko vs Maedhros

It's been a long day, and you're just getting home. What have you been doing?

Zuko: I signed another peace treaty.

Maedhros: I patrolled the area around Amon Ereb one more time. Can't have any fuckin Orcs coming in and making off with our hostages, they are not our sons now, MAGLOR!

Where do you live?

Zuko: The royal palace, along with my servants and guards. I do my best to treat them well.

Maedhros: The dilapidated old fortress of one of my dead brothers. My last remaining brother and I won't be able to protect it by ourselves for long. Morgoth and Thauron are still out there, destroying the world. There is nowhere else to go. We haven't told the hostages, but my brother and I know that we will likely die here.

There's an assassin outside the door! Quick, what do you do?

Zuko: I will incapacitate the assassin if they make it past my guards.

Maedhros: *murders for the 235345894758th time* It smells like bitch in here.

Well, now the people living with you have seen the assassin's body. What now?

Zuko: Aang, this isn't airbender preschool. I'm not leaving the Fire Nation in the hands of Azula, who would most definitely make a bid for the throne if I died.

Maedhros: Maglor has committed just as many crimes as I. The hostages can get over themselves.

It's the anniversary. What happened today?

Zuko: I was banished from the Fire Nation for speaking out of turn. I now know that my banishment helped me become a better leader.

Maedhros: The battle I organized ended in the betrayal of Ulfang and his sons, the Dwarf-king of Belegost died defending our retreat, and my dearest cousin, High King Fingon, was crushed beneath the foot of a Balrog. We do not have the strength to fight such a large-scale battle against Morgoth again. My brothers all escaped alive, but the harshest and most rash of them began itching for a fight against our own kin.

The guy that hurt you is here!

Zuko: My father is a pathetic, cruel man. He has no power over me anymore after Avatar Aang took away his bending.

Maedhros: *cracks knuckles* I'M NOT GOING BACK TO THANGORODRIM, FUCK OFF, MORGOTH.

What's the worst thing you've ever done?

Zuko: It's a close call, but I think my worst deed was when I burned down Kyoshi Island.

Maedhros: I've committed mass murder against my own kin three times. My hands are soaked with blood. Elves and Orcs alike flee from my face.

Uh, where are you going?

Zuko: I have a meeting with some ambassadors.

Maedhros: I'm going to steal my father's magical jewels from the Valar in one last desperate bid to fulfill my Oath.

#maedhros #zuko #atla #silmarillion #incorrect quotes #maedhros is feral

[symphonyofsilence]

I'm personally of the belief that while Maedhros & Maglor heavily regretted the massacre at Sirion, even more than Doriath since Sorion was a refuge for war-torn people, half of them from a land they themselves laid waste to, and since Elwing had a lot more reasons than Dior to not want to parley with them, (that as someone who maybe not so much now that they've been fucked over by it, but at first wanted to avenge their father and grandfather, they understood), and since they raised Elrond & Elros, the living result of what they've done, they still think of Elwing as a thief and as an accomplice in their downfall, and what they've done. They believe that if she would just make the wise decision to put the good of her people & her children before her hatred and thought of revenge and give them what rightfully belonged to them, and she very well knew they were oath bound to retrieve and were not above doing anything to get back, none of this would have happened.

Of course, the same is true about Dior. They regret laying waste to Doriath, but they also believe that Dior is a thief, who had even fewer reasons not to give them their father's work.

Especially since the scenario of "parent valuing the fucking shiny stones more than their children" is very familiar to them, they have an extra, more personal distaste for Dior & Elwing. But since Dior and Elwing were much, much younger than the Fëanorians (& the Fëanorians were especially proud people) they also saw them as wilful younglings who had just taken the throne and their family's masterpiece & thought that they owned the world and had infinite power & could do whatever they want while in fact they had no idea wtf they were doing and what they were messing with.

Maglor & Maedhros might have been the softer Fëanorians, but they were still Fëanorians. I think the fandom forgets that a lot.

#tolkien #jrrt #jirt #tolkien tag #lotr #silmarillion #the silm #silm meta #maedhros #maglor #elwing #dior #silmarils #the feanorians #maitimo #makalaure #nelyafinwe #kanafinwe #my two cents

[avantegarda]

i have decided to go ahead and make a long post about elrond's feelings towards his parents because i feel like it's a very complex situation and changes a lot over time? i like both elwing/earendil and the feanorians a lot, so hopefully this will be fairly nuanced and not make anyone Red With Rage.

Childhood:

No point in mincing words: I think when Elrond was very young he felt a lot of resentment towards his parents (edit: or at least earendil, depending on whether elrond knew what happened to elwing). Of course Earendil and Elwing had good reasons for sailing away/birdifying respectively, but those reasons are hard for a six-year-old to comprehend. Unfortunately, to tiny Elrond, it just seemed like abandonment. Maedhros and Maglor were criminals, and often terrifying, but they were also there. Is it any wonder Elrond started to see them as family?

(It should be noted that Mae and Mags genuinely did try their best to be good dads to the kids, particularly by emphasizing NO OATHS whenever possible)

Adolescence:

Even Elrond had his edgy-teenager phase, and this manifested itself strongly when he and Elros were taken in by Gil-Galad. People would tell him how lucky he was to have escaped those horrible kinslayers, and he would tell them to shut their damn mouths because those horrible kinslayers raised him and where the hell were his birth parents, anyway? Not around.

That said, he also became very close to Gil-Galad around this time and was able to learn a bit about his birth parents (Gil having met Earendil and the family a few times, and having been very fond of them) and started to realize that perhaps he'd judged his family too harshly.

Young Adulthood:

I think Elrond went through a phase, though I'm not sure how long, of genuinely resenting the Feanorians for all the chaos and bloodshed they caused and how this caused his mother's disappearance. All perfectly understandable emotions. Underneath it all, though, he still missed them--and was often ashamed of himself for this.

During this time he was also extremely homesick for Elwing and Earendil and thought a lot about the few, vague childhood memories he had of them. Like the time Earendil tried to give him a pet lobster, and the bedtime stories Elwing would tell.

Adulthood:

After living through goodness knows how many battles, and getting married and becoming a dad, Elrond reached a point where he was able to reconcile his feelings towards both sets of parents. He didn't know Earendil and Elwing well, but he knew they were good people who loved their kids and didn't really want to leave-- circumstances just forced it. He also knew that Maedhros and Maglor had done their best to be good parents despite the weight of the oath (and all the crimes) and didn't beat himself up for loving them. And of course whenever Mags showed up to Rivendell, looking like a feral hobo, he was welcomed with open arms. That's how we treat family in Imladris.

#elrond #maglor #maedhros #earendil #elwing #wow this is incoherent #tolkien #silmarillion

[meadowlarkx]

I really think the years of Maglor's reign as High King of the Noldor in Middle-earth (& Maedhros' captivity) are so key to his character. Maglor whose defining feature, in the end, is staying with and yielding to Maedhros, even when it's patently not a good idea anymore.

During Maedhros' captivity, the crown falls to Maglor, who has until now been safely living in the middle sibling zone far from ultimate responsibility. He's a famous minstrel, but he's never had to lead or expected it. And suddenly, for these thirty years, Maglor's left ostensibly in charge of managing things. Fëanor is dead and Maedhros is gone. The Fëanorians betrayed and abandoned Fingolfin's host and have no hope of seeing them again. Yesterday they learned about violent death and committed atrocities, and today they lost their brightest and most charismatic leaders who also happen to be Maglor's father and beloved elder brother. Now they're stranded in a new land in the dark. It must have seemed near hopeless. I think it's really interesting how 1.) Maglor is never explicitly named as king (iirc) in the Silmarillion, and 2.) There's no word (in Silm) about any moves the Fëanorian camp make during these 30 years. They're holding on, probably a difficult task in itself, but they aren't accomplishing much more than that. I imagine Maglor spends this whole period teetering on the border of despairing altogether.

What we do get of this time is that Morgoth makes them an offer—if the Fëanorians give up their Oath/leave Beleriand, he'll give them Maedhros—which the brothers, under Maglor's leadership, don't take (since Morgoth lies and the Oath is too important to renege on.) It's right after they refuse in the text that Morgoth hangs Maedhros on Thangorodrim.

Then Fingon rescues Maedhros, proving that it could be done. If Maglor hadn't already hated himself for rejecting Morgoth's offer of an exchange, for not saving Maedhros, and for failing to do more than just hold the camp together in the meantime, he's got to now. It's this sense of overwhelming, loving debt and guilt towards Maedhros, I think, and fear of feeling lost (& fully responsible) without him again, that dominate Maglor's actions from then on. He places his trust in Maedhros' leadership, relieved Maedhros can make the final decisions now. How can he really trust himself when he was wrong before? And he places his hopes in redeeming himself to Maedhros. Maglor, without any apparent opposition whatsoever (I would say gratefully), hands the crown back to Maedhros—and promptly on Maedhros' bidding (again without any noted opposition—I would say eagerly) goes to the most dangerous region of Beleriand to be the first line of defense against an invasion. (And then he "fails" Maedhros again by losing the Gap in the Bragollach.)

When Maglor is right in their conversation about stealing the Silmarils, of course it's hard for him to stick to it. He's used to trusting Maedhros more than himself. He owes Maedhros his loyalty for those horrible years of inaction. And probably most of all, he doesn't want to be alone, without Maedhros again, adrift and hopeless.

#maglor #silmarillion #my posts #i know i shove this notion at like everybody i have talked to off of here but i'm still so sold on it #girlfailure maglor #my poor little mew mew #it's been so long since i tried to write a meta post that i have lost the remembrance of how #of course maglor contains multitudes more than this but i think it's a strong uh thread w/ him

[polutrope]

Hmm interesting, I've never felt Maedhros' searching for Elured and Elurin was in contradiction to what happens later. I've always seen Maedhros as a fundamentally decent and moral person who tries his best when he's at least halfway in his right mind (being the only one to not participate in the ship burnings, deeds of surpassing valour/everything he tries to do while he still has some amount of hope left, searching for the twins etc).

I don't think he ever was truly well post-Thangorodrim and never got to heal and deal with all the trauma properly, but he was holding on and trying. And then the Nirn/Fingon's death happens and it's all downhill from there.

Celegorm pushes for the attack on Doriath and being in the terrible state of mind that he is, Maedhros goes along with it and it's another disastrous failure. He desperately searches for the twins but fails at that too. And three of his brothers are dead now.

Then it's Sirion and it's yet another failure (I hold Maedhros and Maglor equally accountable for Sirion (and also Doriath), as we have no indication Maglor argued against these kinslayings. Or, if we're going by the "Amrod and Amras pushed for the attack on Sirion" version of events, then Maedhros and Maglor were equally reluctant, but went along with it in their weariness/oath-driven suffering). Two more brothers dead and so on.

To my mind, Maedhros has been on a downward spiral to end all downward spirals for a long time, he is in despair, mentally unstable and likely suicidal (even before the silmaril burns him imo), and his later actions and decisions reflect that to me.

I guess this is an emotionally-driven explanation for his actions like you mentioned, but as someone who has made terrible decisions and done things I later regretted when I was in a bad place mentally, it has always seemed very relatable and not contradictory at all to me.

[In reference to this.]

Hey Anon. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, you got me thinking (as did your original question, assuming that was also you). Maedhros has been a tough nut for me to crack as a character and the process is ongoing. Your explanation here is exactly the kind of interesting imaginative work I was talking about in my original post.

The frustrating thing for me, I guess, is that everything you say here makes perfect sense from a bird's eye view of Maedhros' character. What happens to me (and what's been happening recently on my current WiP) is when I get down to actually writing him, and trying to be in his head, I am at a loss. The forest of Maedhros makes sense to me, but the individual trees confound me.

Want to acknowledge also that I know it can be nettling (or just downright emotionally devastating, depending) when someone starts talking about how they don't understand (or worse, hate) a character you love and relate to. This is Daeron for me. Thank you for engaging so reasonably!

#asks #anon #maedhros

[warrioreowynofrohan]

oh my god, thank you for that wonderful response. i have been reblogging some of your posts because i agree with it. when i started reading lotr fics, i stumbled upon so many older fics about the supposedly called "kidnap fam" and the more i understand about elros and elronds situation, the more i go from "wait what" to "what the fuck" and go back to the canon material because youre telling me they villainize elwing and earindil but not the ones who caused the second kinslaying because apparently its such a good material for idk to make the feanorians nice? ive read enough fics that are long af which explains the complexity or whatever of why the second kinslaying happened but when it comes to elwing and earindil, its like fuck it they suck af. im not kidding when i said the more i read about feanor and the sons of feanor (book, fics and posts), the more i get exhausted because some of them have such a dickish personalities like they're awful af but apparently they have talents or something to compensate for that. im really sorry for this rant. im probably dipping into waters with sharks in it.

Yeah, 'kidnap fam' is hugely popular - and wow, it must have been wild to come to it straight from LOTR and then later discover Elrond's backstory! Because yeah, the way the Third Kinslaying is presented in fics can be very different from the way it is in the books.

I think, maybe, Elwing and Eärendil are vilified by some Fëanorean fans precisely because the Third Kinslaying is so horrific. That's not to say that the Second Kinslaying is not - we really get more details of specific atrocities committed in the Second Kinslaying (abandoning small children to die of exposure) - but the Second Kinslaying is at least a fight between two groups who both have armies. The Third Kinslaying is a massacre of the remnants of the civilian populations of two previously-destroyed kingdoms. And I think that very horror makes people want someone else to blame for it at least partially - someone else to blame for some element of it - even though the sole cause of it is, truly, the decision of the remaining Fëanoreans to massacre people. (My thoughts on this are partly because I've seen almost this identical thing in another fandom that I'm part of, where we find out midway through the series that one of the main protagonists, earlier in his life when he was a much worse person, massacred an entire village. Parts of the fandom gravitated to casting blame on the leader of the village he massacred for being 'unreasonable', or to claiming the main character wasn't in control of his mind [the same way that people say the Fëanoreans had no choice because of the Oath], because understanding a character you like as being to blame for something so horrible is very raw.)

But back on the topic of 'kidnap fam' - I think it's the contrast that draws people to it, the idea of people who have done terrible things and feel terrible about them being suddenly confronted by innocent and helpless children whom they need to care for. (I say 'they' because 'kidnap fam' is usually written as both Maglor and Maedhros 'parenting'; my own mental image of it is that Maedhros had very little to do with the twins' upbringing.) But I'm feeling rather overexposed to 'cute' takes on it. It's not cute; I'm somewhat in the middle of a fanfic where I try to dig in a little to what Elrond's upbringing must have been like, the scars and complicated trauma that it must have left. And it's strange, because, if people want to write about a cute adoptive/found family, there are other options out there! There's Annael and the other grey-elves who raise Tuor, for example. But again, I think it's the combination of the popularity of the Fëanoreans and the contrasts inherent in the situation. I loathe when people try to cast blame on Elwing for, uh, being driven to suicidal despair by everyone she knows being massacred and her kids being captured by the same people who murdered her brothers. And I've gotten really tired of people trying to give Maglor credit for the good person who Elrond became; in my opinion, Elrond's character may be in part a reaction to his upbringing, but his goodness is more despite Maglor than because of him.

It's fine if you're feeling overexposed to the Fëanoreans - they can be pervasive in the tumblr Silm fandom, but there are still people here who like/focus on other characters!

And if anyone tries to get on your case for feeling tired of the Fëanoreans, block 'em. Life's too short for putting up with it.

#asks

[runawaymun]

🗡️&⚓, if you please!

🗡️ Defend your favorite war criminal (or make them worse - I'm not your mom)

I'm a Maedhros apologist for so many reasons. Chief of which is because I love him. But in all seriousness, while he is a war criminal and he is a mass-murderer, I think out of all the The Sons of Fëanor, he displayed the most restraint and regret.

Like sure the narrative tells us that Maglor deeply regretted his actions explicitly -- but he comes late to that realization after the end of the third kinslaying. Out of all the sons, Maedhros props up my idea that the Oath is something Eldritch and Outside of Them -- a compelling Force (which doesn't absolve them of their actions, but does explain things a lot) the most. He seeks the peaceful, least-violent solutions first, nearly every time.

Maedhros didn't participate in the burning of the ships.

Maedhros repeatedly tries to protect others at risk to himself - taking up the most dangerous/at-conflict lands in Himring, and trying end the conflict with Morgoth with the least bloodshed possible - at risk of his own life by going to treat with Morgoth. Is this his smartest move? No. Is it perhaps his most selfless? IMO yeah. I'm sure he knew he was walking into a trap, but he was offered an opportunity to end things with the least amount of bloodshed and risk to others, so he took it.

Maedhros does a lot of political (and familial) work in healing all the division his father caused over the Silmarils via the Union of Maedhros, but is happy not to be in charge and doesn't seem to need/want recognition. He doesn't have a huge ego. He relinquishes kingship to Fingolfin even though his brothers don't want him to.

The second he felt that his brothers might cause conflicts with others, he moved them out of Hithlum.

Celegorm had to convince Maedhros to attack Doriath. This was after Maedhros attempted to simply ask Dior to hand over the Silmaril - Dior may have inherited the Silmaril from Beren & Luthien, but IMO stolen property, even inherited, is still stolen property. Does this justify the sack of Doriath? No. But I personally do not believe that Dior had any moral right to the Silmaril either. Maedhros was well within his rights to ask for it, and while I understand completely why nobody handed it over, and the Oath may have compelled kinslaying anyway due to the "he who hideth/hoardeth/in hand taketh etc etc" clause -- Maedhros still asked first. and IMO that's a sign of, again -- the fact that he seeks out peaceful solutions first. And it was only after the Oath had awoken and after a great deal of "stirring" from Celegorm that Maedhros agreed to launch an assault.

Maedhros canonically hated what happened to Elured & Elurin. It was done without his knowledge and he also canonically tried to save them.

In a repeat of what happened at Doriath: Maedhros sent messages to Sirion first, and while again -- I don't blame Elwing for withholding the Silmaril because nobody at Sirion had any reason to believe that M&M wouldn't take the Silmaril and kill them anyway (especially after Doriath) -- he still tried. And it was only after they refused to hand it over and the Oath was awoken & in some versions of the tale the Ambarussa urged him that they launched an assault on Sirion.

Maedhros doesn't send anyone else on the fool's errand to try and retrieve the last two Silmarils. He goes alone with Maglor. There is no assault. No battle. He does it in secrecy and kills the least amount of people he possibly can. It really feels to me like the goal was to sate the Oath/save his family from eternal darkness with the least amount of bloodshed possible.

⚓ Pick a Silm ship to go down with. What is compelling about their dynamic?

I'm gonna have to go with Brimbrond, obviously. I love me some Russingon and some Gilrond but I just am clenching Brimbrond in my fists. They're so good. And the tragic end makes it better for me because Elrond's the one Gil-Galad sends to liberate Eregion and he fails. And when you add in the ship background it makes it even worse. Just...the THEMES. THE THEMES.

Elrond and Celebrimbor are both friendship-focused and people-oriented.

If you're a kidnap fam stan then they have a lot of bonding to do over stories of M&M. In my head, Elrond has to deal with a lot of weird/rocky political fallout due to being a "Feanorian fosterling" -- people are mistrustful at first. And he has to deal with his complicated feelings about M&M and like, no actually, he doesn't hate them -- which no one else seems to understand. But Celebrimbor would.

Both have to deal with the crushing weight of family legacy & trying to forge their own path & in a way choose their mother-names over their fathers' legacies. Celebrimbor chooses to go by Telperinquar rather than Curufinwe III. Elrond chooses "Peredhel" over "Earendillion"

Something something echoes of Elrond's attachment to "silver" lovers who meet untimely and horrible ends thanks to Sauron.

there's more here because I could ramble about them for ages but I just really love them together.

silm ask meme

#Maedhros #the simarillion #Elrond #Celebrimbor #brimbrond

[that-angry-noldo]

If you're willing to share, I'm interested in hearing about the post-nirnaeth details for the werewolf au! (For that matter, I would enjoy hearing about any and all details for the werewolf au!)

(anon i'm so sorry i told i'll answer the ask in the morning but never really got the time so it's a bit late)

Here are some bits of the au, both pre- and post-nirnaeth:

Finrod doesn't return to Nargothrond for a while, and when he does, he has no intention to lead again - his goal is to simply persuade his people to help Maedhros against Morgoth

He wanders Beleriand for few years beforehand. He's got his own pack of 3 wolves - their names are Mary, Coal and Em (short for Emerald). The name Mary makes no sense in-universe, but. you know what. neither do werewolves

The Second Kinslaying doesn't happen! It's actually a part of subplot where Luthien finds a loophole in the oath and says "look if you wait for like 40 more years both i and beren would be dead and no one else would have touched your silmarill aside from my dad but i'm sure he wouldn't be a problem by then. whatever that means"

Finrod's forehead is tatooed with multiple tree ornaments/branches that hide Sauron's eye. The tattooes were done by Beren and Luthien

The following joke was made at least 10 times:

Maglor: Maedhros can I have a werewolf lord

Maedhros: no we have a werewolf lord at home

Finrod: i swear to valar if you make this joke one more time i'll go batshit insane and you don't want to see me going batshit insane

Finrod's eyes sometimes change color from grey to bright green

After Nirnaeth he, Maedhros and Maglor (and the rest of Feanorians to lesser extent) can't choose who should rule while Fingon is in Gondolin; they never do, instead deciding to unite their forces and rule together as some sort of Council

Finrod grows closer with Ambarussa - he spends time in their realm sometimes, helping them with hunting

Finrod met Hurin and considered him an acquintace

Kids of Beleriand know from craddle a story of the Werewolf-King - about the elf who went on an adventure one day, disappeared and returned back changed and with eyes green like emeralds. They say he haunts forests and lakes, and that his wolves devour any nasty kid. Finrod's not sure he loves that fairytale.

Thanks for asking!! Please, feel free to send more, it's an excuse for me to rant about the au :)

#finrod #tolkien #silmarillion #werewolf au #noldo answers

[semi-imaginary-place]

"It's the tragic waste of it all. Maedhros was born to be a main character, the hero. He's the heir to the throne, and he would have been fantastic at it: he's intelligent, energetic, reasonable, and charismatic. He's the moral strength of the family: he participated in the first Kinslaying because the Feanorians had already been exiled and he believed they had to sail or die, but he refuses to participate in the burning of the ships as both bad strategy and an injustice, despite none of his brothers standing with him against Feanor. He withstands years of torture in Angband and comes out of it stronger and wiser and unbroken. He's going to be better than Feanor. How hard can that be, really, considering who Feanor was at the end? Then the bodies start piling up, and the floor starts buckling beneath him. Humility fails: Fingolfin dies and they lose ground. Trust fails: Fingon dies and they lose ground and alliances. Diplomacy fails: Dior rejects his letter and they lose Celegorm and Curufin and two children die for no reason at all. His will fails: he can't stick to his decision to forswear the Oath and attacks the refugees at the Havens of Sirion and thus lose Amrod and Amras. After years and years of nothing but loss and failure, in the end it's just him and Maglor. Maglor, who seems to still believe in a loving god for some reason, thinks that they should concede that everything they have done and suffered in Middle Earth was evil and pointless and surrender themselves to the Valar for punishment. He wants them to bow down and tell the whole of Arda that they were stupid and small and accomplished nothing and let the Valar decide what should happen to them from now on, the Valar who didn't trouble themselves to aid Middle Earth until Earendil proved that someone holding a Silmaril could enter Aman against the Valar's wishes (and Morgoth still had two!). Maehdros can't accept that - how could he? How could his entire life be a mistake? How is he supposed to endure until the Dagor Dagorath as a penitent, forever ashamed of choices that he didn't realize were chocies at the time? Wouldn't it be better for it to just be over? For it to be over on his terms, to finally win, just one time? (If Maedhros had sons, this would be the time for him to make them renew the Oath for him.) Maedhros, in the end, trades everything for the Silmaril, and he dies in fire and despair. The Feanorians, like the Atreidai, find their fates. His hopes were empty and his struggle was useless. But he tried, and that should mean something. He ended just like Feanor, but the fact that he tried so hard and for so long should mean something! But it doesn't, and that's the horror. Maedhros' story is the triumph of nihilism by an author who usually prefers hope, and there's something morbidly fascinating in that." (allthecactifindahome)

Tolkien based the heroes in his legendarium on his experiences fighting in World War I and living through World War II, and on his academic background in European literature and Germanic epics in particular (think Beowulf). Maedhros is then the failed hero, a subversion of the heroic archetype where he had all the makings of a great hero like his cousins Fingon or Finrod yet his tale is a tragedy (because Maedhros was too determined, too loyal, too good). Tolkien wrote other subversions of the heroic archetype in Turin the cursed hero (compared to Finnish epic protagonist Kullervo) and Thorin Oakenshield but that's another discussion.

#silm #tolkien #maedhros #tolkien legendarium #silmarillion #the hobbit

[searchingforserendipity25]

🗡️⚓️

Ohh, this is a great one ;D Thank you for the asks @jouissants! I went off about Finrod and Balan here for the ⚓.

🗡️ - Defend your favorite war criminal (or make them worse - I'm not your mom).

Maglor is undefendable HOWEVER I think he did do it. I think at some point he wrote the Philosophical Defense of Maglor. Written by himself, never sung in public, the longest WIP ever to be unconcluded, the full-hearted theological apologia, the draft of the Noldolantë with more heresy and fewer politics, too honest for anyone's ears. 

The Song of Arda (the metanarrative of the world, as it were) can be in itself as strong a compulsion as the Oath. This is cool and funny to me because the idea of being at least a little bit aware that all things will truly happen as Eru, Author of Authors, wills it, is genuinely nightmarish.  Maglor started as Berlioz commanding an orchestra of hundred and around the time a horde of dragons burned down his role in the possibility of heroics had a quick breakdown that never quite solved itself.

Hope is for the valiant, and he is not that figure in the play. By the time the Nirnaeth rolls around - before, actually - he’s living in the kind of fugue state those musicians who for some insane reason play Erik Satie’s 18-hour-long compositions consisting of the same short melody and chords repeated again and again, knowing once the task was taken up that it cannot be released, knowing there can be no reprieve. He’s Tiresias and Oedipus and the Chorus watching the House of Atreus Fëanor fall to ruin, when really all he wants to be is Antigone - and the worst thing is that he knows it. 

This leads to the writing of the Defense. All things are as the Song wills it, right! Right! So murder is fine, actually, because if even Melkor’s existence were beyond Eru’s reach that would have been solved. And it hasn’t been. Therefore Maglor is not absolutely evil for being ontological evil. Or so he tells a very, very, very, tired Maedhros, who never again asks what his brother is working on. 

The Philosophical Defense of Maglor (in F minor) claims: evil exists, ergo this story can never end another way, ergo the fault is not wholly my own. Or rather, evil is permittable; it proposes relationships and ideals, which he is obligated to fulfill with panache in the absence of all other escape; that is the minstrel's code of honour, and better than none.

Evil exists, and he has done evil, and become evil, and there is nothing to stop it, and none stopped it, and there are no laws and no costumes that cannot be broken, no higher rule but the tide force of the narrative, and that is true; but he was not the one that wrote it to be so. Evil, Maglor argues, is in him, but not without competition; the truest possibility of evil was invented as a function in a play written by someone who has never loved a brother. 

He does yell at Ilúvitar a great deal, all alone on that beach. 

#asks #jouissants #maglor

[ceescedasticity]

Unforsaken, 2c

(All sections on tumblr)

(AO3, lagging behind but more polished)

"What," says Celeborn. "Are you— Do you mean Celebrimbor encountered his father as an orc?"

Whiterot wasn't expecting Celeborn to be the one with questions about this.

"I don't want to explain this more than once, I'll go get the other one."

Elladan comes back with Maglor not long after. They haven't seen Whiterot.

Possibly she's climbed out a window.

Khitwê and Risyind go to look for her.

So: Planning is postponed until after a grand information exchange. (And until Whiterot is located, but probably that won't take as long.)

THINGS GLORFINDEL NEEDS TO TELL TURGON (because he has a right or need to know or because it's just really awkward to have him not know it):

How the Gondolin evacuation went.

Glorfindel's own death and eventual return.

Other people who had returned to life before Glorfindel came back to Middle-earth mid-Second Age: Elenwë, Aredhel, Argon, Finrod, a number of others.

Idril reached Eldamar by boat though it was a little complicated, and she's well, and Tuor was granted the life of the Eldar and is still with her.

How the Gondolin survivors settled at the Havens of Sirion and how that ended up.

Eärendil's voyage and current job.

Choice of the Peredhil.

Elros exists and died a mortal death.

THINGS MAGLOR NEEDS TO TELL CELEGORM UNFORTUNATELY:

About the Third Kinslaying.

About Amras and Amrod.

About Elwing, Eärendil, and Gil-Estel.

About Elrond and Elros.

About Maedhros.

About his hand.

About what he's been doing for like seven thousand years (according to Celegorm anyway).

THINGS CELEGORM NEEDS TO TELL MAGLOR:

That he's certain none of the others are orcs because they would have remembered and they would have done something obvious.

About what happened with Curufin and Sauron and Celebrimbor.

That he can't believe Maedhros and Maglor did another Kinslaying and fucked that one up too.

That he understands better how they were reacting to him back then, because becoming an orc really should have been a bigger change.

THINGS TURGON NEEDS TO TELL GLORFINDEL:

About Squint, and things he understands about Maeglin now that he didn't before.

About Goblin-town No he doesn't.

That regardless of how often Bellow remembered, Glorfindel did the right thing in not looking for him after he saw him the once. It could only have endangered both of them. Even if everything went right, and they'd met when Bellow remembered and wasn't being watched or heavily influenced, Glorfindel couldn't have done anything.

Stop looking at me like I didn't do anything wrong, Laurefindel, I killed a lot of people, all while I remembered—

THINGS GLORFINDEL NEEDS TO TELL MAGLOR AND CELEGORM PROBABLY:

The Valar eventually said it's not possible for Quendi to send themselves out of Ëa no matter how grave their oath, so: no one is in Darkness.

Caranthir has been reembodied, and doesn't seem bound by the Oath as far as Glorfindel could tell.

THINGS TURGON NEEDS TO TELL CELEBORN PROBABLY:

He was sort of hoping Whiterot would explain this but apparently not.

Whiterot is Doriathrin, he doesn't known anything more than that.

No, the thing he needs to explain is that Nimloth is an orc.

He's sure.

#orc bank unforsaken #orc bank #a tolkien tag #did I forget anything important? #besides ulk he's forgotten for now and coming up later

[imakemywings]

I've been thinking about Maedhros and Maglor and the House of Feanor lately. I understand being loyal to your mother and father, or in their case, their father Feanor. But after the third and/or fourth kinslaying, there's no fucking way Maedhros and Maglor still held some sort of love or thoughts of love for their dad. They probably had arguments about it, blaming Feanor or something. Imagining myself in Maedhros' shoes and living life after those kinslayings with only one brother who probably isn't mentally there anymore and finally getting the silmaril only for it to burn my hand, I think I'd drown myself in despair and throw myself in a volcano too with thoughts of hatred for my dad who started all of this, which is unfair for Feanor, but idk.

I always saw everything they do as a sort of twisted love for Feanor, tbh. They swore the oath not because Feanor made them or even asked them to, but because when they saw their dad do it, they wanted to, and especially after Feanor's death, it would be easy for them to fixate on the Silmarils as the peak or even sum of Feanor's legacy and something that had to be protected within the family for that reason alone.

It's possible they're resentful of Feanor for setting them on this path--I think it would be hard not to feel any of that. And, in some ways, isn't it easier to blame Feanor than blame themselves for doing what they're doing? Because they were adults when they swore the oath and they were adults acting under their own power during each and every choice they made in pursuit of the oath. At some point, you can't keep blaming daddy, unless you just refuse to take responsibility yourself (which is certainly possible). Maedhros and Maglor commit the Fourth Kinslaying more than six hundred years after Feanor's death--sure you can say he set them up for this, but they had many chances to turn off this path and they refused. Even at the very end, Maglor suggests they stop, and when Maedhros refuses, neither of them invokes Feanor, only their own fears about what will happen to them--which you could take to mean that whatever loyalty they had to him is no longer part of the equation and they're acting solely for their own benefit now, or not.

I also feel like it would be easy for there to be a kind of taboo among them about suggesting Feanor was wrong about anything--because if he was wrong, then what are they doing? (This is just h/c though)

However, even if they are angry with him, I do still see them as loving him. And doesn't that make it all the messier? If Feanor and his sons loved each other even until the end, but now there's all this blood and horror between them, and Feanor himself has to reckon with what his children became by following, at least in their minds, what he wanted? I certainly think that Feanor blames himself for it. But they also made all their own choices, and I think it would be pretty childish and cowardly to act like Feanor forced their hands into killing Eonwe's guard.

However given what you said about their mental state (I don't imagine either Maglor or Maedhros is doing great by the end) it would be interesting to explore their relationship with guilt and responsibility, and how that may change when they perceive their rejection by the Silmarils. While Maglor is perhaps the most clear-eyed about what they're really doing, I also think he is capable of putting that aside to adopt a more comfortable delusion, and when Maedhros dies he is forced to abandon that and face the reality of what they are and what they've done--and maybe he covers that for a while with blaming Feanor, but at some point, he may have to admit the extent of his own hand in it.

#asks #anonymous