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bookwyrminspiration · 2 years

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one thing that has ALWAYS bothered me is just the way that juline was seemingly so easily forgiven? if i found out that my wife was part of the black swan for as long as my children were alive, i would be ticked.

That's very fair! I think we all probably have certain moments from the book that irritate us how they were approached, and Juline being forgiven so quickly is definitely an interesting one. I think there is an explanation for it though, so lets see if i can explain this.

Juline joined the Black Swan shortly after the triplets were born, as she saw how horribly they were being treated and discussed in the birthing center and world as a whole. Elven society thinks they're going to be/are lesser because they're triplets, and that they're triplets because Juline and Kesler are a bad match. I don't think what Kesler was focused on when the reveal happened was that his wife had hidden this huge secret from him, but instead that she'd been subjected to these rumors and stigmas because of their children and because of their match status--a status he blames himself for. Juline says it herself that she knew Kesler would blame himself for ruining her life, so I think he's devastated that he brought this upon her and that she had to go to such drastic measures for their family because she married him.

I do think Kesler's interest in the strange and unusual helped a little as well. He's already primed to doing things differently and already doesn't like their society. He largely approves of the Black Swan as far as I can tell, and has been exposed to the concept for a while (through Dex at the very least). Juline still shares the same sentiments as him, she just acting on them in a different way. Kesler was probably more upset that he wasn't able to help her through all those years--maybe not as a Black Swan member, but as an understanding husband--and that she felt the need to hide it from him.

That being said, that's only one reaction! Dex was shown to be a lot more upset about it, and we only saw a portion of his reaction when around friends. It's entirely possible that he had a much more hurt reaction after they left where he confronted his mom. Same for Kesler. You really think he's going to have an in-depth talk about their relationship in front of all these kids? Especially with an active Neverseen threat? /rh. That's a personal affair, and we only got what we did because Shannon wanted us to know that part of their characters and in order to do that, Sophie has to be there.

Realistically, I'm sure there is a lot more to Juline straightening out everything that what we saw. I mean, we didn't get the conversation with Edaline and Grady. Those are adult matters and relationships that Sophie doesn't need to be involved in, so we only get snippets.

Dex does seem to be more akin to what reaction you're describing, so really it comes down to the person. You are not Kesler Dizznee, so you're not going to react the same! And it doesn't really advance anything storywise for Shannon to have Kesler and Dex being absolutely ticked. Those relationships happen almost entirely off page, so going through the effort to show them would detract from the rest of the plot despite it being more plausible (and more realistic to you). What was important in that moment was revealing that Juline is Squall, not the familial impact that would have on her.

I guess that's a long way of saying that it makes sense it bothers you! I wasn't given the kind of attention it would need to have a strained relationship because it's not an important relationship for Sophie to be aware of, so it was glossed over for the sake of other plot things. Not necessarily a bad thing, just acknowledging that that is what Shannon did. Sometimes you gotta prioritize, and in this case Kesler and Juline were not the priority, hence it feeling bothersome when we focus on it.

Kesler also just doesn't seem like the type to get angry. While your response might be anger, his is more confusion, hurt, disbelief, etc. Not that one is right, they're just different.

I'm not trying to tell you not to be bothered, only trying to figure out why it was done like this!! And it's definitely interesting to look at them, so thank you for the opportunity

#juline and kesler aren't important enough to justify all the page time it would take to show that strain and anger #to get sophie there. and to have them talk about that in front of her in a way that was natural enough to be excused #so we gotta sacrifice the tension and the conversations about it #writing frequently has trade offs #this happens to be one of them #kotlc #keeper of the lost cities #quil's queries #ophe-lia #juline dizznee #kesler dizznee #kotlc squall #tw caps #kotlc character analysis

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onlyonewoman · 5 years

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While I’m a bit disappointed with this season, since it seems to be all over and a little bit of everything and with no real structure, and I DO get frustrated with June and her choices, I think this show shows us a very important thing: Fighting changes you and not always for the better. As annoying I find it storywise, I can totally see where Junes’ actions come from and I must say I find it a little bit worrying how people who’re very involved in the show and have been from the beginning, somehow forget all the trauma these women have been through and how they’ve all literally been stripped of human value beyond their ability to breed from the day they were brought to the Red Center. I’m sorry, but have people forgotten how deep THAT INITIAL TRAUMA went? Offred has been ripped away from everything she is, everything and everyone she loves. She’s been stripped of her very identity, her name and she has no outlet left. Yes, I find it annoying and sloppy because I want the story to move forward and not just be about June’s feelings, but if we stop and think about it, what exactly does it say about an audience who expect reasonable, well-planned and empathic actions from June - or any handmaid - at this time? Don’t you see that June’s upcoming sociopathy, is no different than OfMatthew’s (Natalie’s) Stockholm Syndrome? You folks gotta stop applying our values onto these women as if they actually had the luxuary of a choice, because they FUCKING DON’T. What I DO get fucking annoyed at, is this killing off black women because since they didn’t bring along the original racism from the book where POC were separated, it’s really bad writing. We got Oferic - Brianna - for a few scenes in season 2 and then the badass Ofglen 2 - Lillie Fuller - who blew the Red Center up in the only suicied bombing I’ve ever applauded and we got Moira, of course, who managed to escape before the training was over. And don’t forget Rita. Moira, Brianna, Lillie, Rita, Natalie... these are all black women who’ve been handmaids or marthas and I’d just want to point out that the only one of them who turned the pain to herself and didn’t make it, is Natalie. But Moira was the first handmaid - later jeezebel - who got out. Lillie spoke up and got her tongue cut off, but took more fucking commanders out than I thought was even possible. She wasn’t driven by panic or victimized in the way OfMatthew was, she SMIRKED and made sure to give her fellow handmaid’s a chance to run before she took the bastards out. June is as suspicious of Ofmatthew as she was with the first Ofglen and she has reasons. I’m sorry, but I’m not gonna sit here and expect normal empathy from ANY handmaid. The most effective weapon against them, was the isolation, the fact that their very training is designed to isolate them despite being a unity. I mean, the consequences of trusting the wrong person in Gilead, more than often is the wall, and who can expect these women to act like there’s room for some slack when it isn’t. ALL THE NORMAL RULES HAVE SLOWLY DISSOLVED, THERE IS NO SAFETY ANYWHERE ONLY A GAME OF SURVIVAL AND YOU EXPECT JUNE TO BE FUCKING REASONABLE?! As a character, I find her annoying now because the storyline is too dragged out and we get little positive evolvement. But at the same time, it fits. Sit back for a while and think about how much empathy, how much of your core values you’d still have safe and whole in that place, after going through all that. I will, how ever, agree, that the producers could’ve spread out the deaths a bit more - and we’ve not yet seen an Asian handmaid, have we? - but right now I’m mostly annoyed with the slowness. This season needs more drastic actions, needs to evolve more around other characters than June, Fred, Serena and Lawrence. I want more Rita, more Janine and I also found Aunt Lydia’s backstory quite lame unless we get to see more of it to follow her way to being an aunt. What the show does, is to give us characters who are in the “good guy/hero” position in the narrative, but don’t manage to live up to what we want from that type of person. In that sense, the annoyance we feel, serves us right, because The Handmaid’s Tale refuses to give us heros and I sometimes feel that the show hits me the hardest when it reminds me of how few of us would be able to become the hero Gilead needs. Just replace Gilead with Nazi Germany and you get the point. Even the best among us, placed in the worst of conditions, will crumble and to me, that’s the most terrifying part of the show.

#the handmaid's tale #season 3

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hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger · 6 years

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No Comicstorian, Marvel DOESN’T need a reboot Part 2: Miles Morales isn’t the whole Marvel Universe

I continue to debunk the BS of this video about Spider-Man/Marvel needing a reboot as proven by Spidey PS4.

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This time out we handle the bulk of his points and learn that really this is all about how he feels about Miles Morales.

What is Comicstorian’s next point.

“In Marvel’s rolling timeline they move the events of the pas forward in time and update stuff to it like how Flash Thompson was a bully like in the 1960s stories but it was now because of his Dad”

That isn’t an update and that has nothing to do with a rolling timeline. That’s a flashback, a character reveal, a retcon, character development, whatever you want to call it.

Claiming this is an example of how Marvel’s ‘timeline’ works is like saying that about Harry Osborn being revealed as having Daddy issues like the year after he was introduced.

“Flash’s Daddy issues got turned into him becoming Agent Venom”

No, Flash becoming Agent Venom was due to his history as a solider and his adoration of Spider-Man. his Daddy issues played into it kinda sorta yeah but that’s not an issue related to a rolling timeline, that’s just making use of a character’s established history.

“Adding stuff into the Marvel timeline without removing stuff or rebooting makes it more convoluted because now everything happened even though it doesn’t make sense in the modern day’

That isn’t how Marvel’s timeline works.

Marvel’s timeline works off the premise everything happened and you just ignore anachronisms and/or generalize them.

Flash Thompson being drafted into Vietnam where he met Vietnamese woman Sha Shan became Flash Thompson went into the military during college and over seas met Sha Shan.

We don’t confirm he went to Vietnam but we do not contradict it either.

And this has worked for *checks watch* over 55 years. Comiscstorian claims that it’s confusing and convoluted to have such a big history but...clearly it isn’t because they still make money and make a lot more money than DC does with it’s frequent reboots.*

Meanwhile DC has removed stuff in their history and replaced it with other stuff or rebooted it wholesale and whatever to modernize things and wound up with an even more convoluted fucked up mess than Marvel ever had because there are literally 9 different versions of Superman.

And even specific versions of him ran into the exact same ‘problem’ Marvel had because the superman of 2002 who’d been around since 1986 would’ve still had anachronisms in his history from those 1980s stories.

“DC have never done a true reboot outside of the Nu52”

Yes they have. You can debate the meaning of ‘true reboot’ to an extent but if you are going to codify the Nu52 as an example of one then 1985’s Crisis on Infinite Earths would DEFINITELY be a true reboot.

“Batman has never truly been rebooted”

This is not true at all.

Whilst it is accurate to say of all DC characters and franchises, Batman has changed the least from reboot to reboot, to say he’s not changed at all is ignorant.

When originally conceived Bruce Wayne had no Butler or father figure. Alfred was introduced as a gag character who got in his way but morphed into a loyal butler.

Then when Batman was rebooted in the 1980s Alfred and his history drastically altered. Now Bruce had a perennial father figure in Alfred who’d been there his whole life and helped him on his quest to becoming Batman from the outset.

Whether Batman carried fire arms or not in his early career is also something that has altered from version to version.

The circumstances under which he met Jason Todd have changed.

How and when he revealed his identity to Catwoman has changed.

Selinia’s entire backstory has been all over the place.

Two-Face’s origin and Batman’s role within it has changed.

The role of Jim Gordon and Batman’s relationship to him has radically changed, as he was originally not a father figure to the Dark Knight.

There is so much more but I’ll stop here. Batman’s history is not AS fraught with contradictions as Superman’s or Wonder Woman’s but those major alterations still exist.

“With rebooted characters (like in DC’s case) in terms of needing to understand what is currently happening in modern comics, like the Flash you only need to go back to 2011”

Marvel still outsells DC most of the time in spite of their long continuity.

Marvel for the longest time wrote their comics with the belief that every comic is someone’s first and should be accessible, meaning you never needed to go back at all if you didn’t want to, any issue was a jumping on point.

I am a personal testament to this. My first Spider-Man comic was part 4 of a 4 part story wrapping up 28 months worth of incredibly convoluted plot lines. But because it was a good story in that issue and written accessibly I still loved it and became hooked.

This mentality also gives no shits towards story integrity.

If eventually any story is just going to be rebooted why bother emotionally investing at all?

Why does any story matter if they can all just be changed or thrown out the window whenever for the sake of a new version.

“Marvel tried to fix their continuity problem in 2000 when they did the Ultimate universe which allowed for fresh takes on the characters and a chance to remove the problematic elements and make them work better in this current timeline.”

Yeah and then that universe lasted just 15 years and then died on it’s ass after hobbling along since 2008, with Ultimate Spider-Man itself becoming creatively impoverished before Miles Morales showed up.

Also ‘removing the problematic elements’? You mean like Venom and Carnage having personalities? Because...having personalities was an idea that was dated in the 2000s?

“The Ultimate universe needed to be shut down because things had gotten too convoluted like the main universe”

If the Ult Universe was too convoluted to be allowed to continue why was the even more convoluted 616 universe continued and in fact selling more than it?

It’s almost like the Ultimate Universe fell into decline not because of too much convoluted history but because the stories sucked shit and no one gave a damn because they weren’t the original characters anyway.

“In modern continuity Steve Rogers is back to normal but he’s still HYDRA Steve Rogers, still Old man Rogers, still so convoluted”

That isn’t convoluted.

That’s just a lot of stuff happening. It’d be convoluted if he was all those things at the same time, but in reality he was just one thing after the other.

And whilst that does kinda suck because a lot of those things were trash, the idea of events occurring like that isn’t being convoluted. It’s just storytelling.

All those things occurred within the last 10 years of Captain America meaning that had Cap been rebooted 10 years ago by Comicstorian’s logic he’d need a reboot by now.

By his logic the Flash should be rebooted again soon because too much shit has happened.

I’d love for this guy to like check out long running manga like One Piece or Sailor Moon which has even wackier stuff in even shorter spaces of time and all within the same continuity.

“It’s all just a mess!!!!!!”

Translation: Comicstorian, the guy who you would think would know and appreciate comic book history and is able to roll with it, is pissed off that things are too hard to follow.

Like Jesus fucking Christ this loser is a weaksauce fan. MOST comic book fans know and can roll with the weird histories, even learning to love them.

This guy’s name is literally riding against his fucking attitudes.

“Spider-Man history is convoluted because he was married but then he sold it to the devil so now he isn’t”

This is the most damning example of Comicstorian knowing jack shit.

Because of all things in Marvel One More Day is the closest thing to a continuity reboot akin to DC’s.

He is literally pointing at a continuity reboot and saying it makes things a confusing effed up mess and then tries to use that to justify us...doing more of the same???????????????????

“its so convoluted because he keeps going back to collage”

You mean like....real life people do?

“Spider-Man history is so convoluted because there is a whole series of venom lethal protector”

Okay so first of all Lethal protector was a mini-series not a whole series.

Second of all that is VENOM HISTORY not SPIDER-MAN history.

What? EVERY SPIN OFF counts towards making a character more convoluted?

“Miles morales in the 616 universe only works if you don’t question his origin”

I mean that is true but whilst not strictly speaking a reboot Miles’ migration from one universe to the next is storywise more similar to the types of convoluted messes that occur when continuity reboots happen.

Case in point Power Girl being taken from Earth 2 and incorporated into the newly rebooted post-crisis DC universe or the deal with all the Milestone comics characters.

Miles however is UNIQUE in these problems among Marvel characters whereas it’s more similar to the deal with DC characters.

And Comicstorian is so blind he can’t even see that.

*Comicstorian explains Miles is already a part of PS4 Spider-Man’s universe thus avoiding the problems of him being convoluted and by extention proving Marvel needs to reboot stuff*

Basically this whole mess of a video exists off the back of how this one video game fixed the story problems of this one character in the Marvel universe who’s situation is actually unique among Marvel characters and more comparable to DC ones.

THAT is why Comicstorian thinks ALL OF MARVEL should be rebooted.

“we need a linear timeline for these sueprheroes now!”

Most of the marvel heroes alreadyhave a linear timeline and always did in the pre-internet age when marvel fans just picked up the latest issue and winged it.

“I have a nephew and it’s so hard to just give him a comic book”

Then maybe Comicstorian’s nephew just won’t find comic books to his taste because that’s literally how every comic book fan got indoctrinated.

Just fucking give him ASM vol 5 #1 by Spencer and if the story is good enough for him he’s in. It’s incredibly accessible for the most part.

“It’s so hard explaining Miles morales to my nephew”

Yeah because Miles is UNIQUE in having that convoluted a backstory.

“Marvel history is too convoluted for younger audience members”

Again I jumped onboard literally at the end of the most convulted Spider-Man era of all time, I dealt with divergences from the cartoon Spider-Man I knew, I purchased info books detailing his long crazy history.

I was fine.

In fact those info books are still sold on the mass market so they clearly have an audience for that convoluted history.

“We don’t want kids to be intimidated by the confusing history like we adults are”

Kids don’t view that stuff the way adults to, they’re more accepting of shit and roll with it.

“It’s a lot to try and get into Spider-Man”

If only there were jumping on points peppered throughout Spider-Man’s history which are ways for you to get invested without going through everything before hand?

“The PS4 game is the best version of Spider-Man ever!”

Better in some respects not as great in others.

“It’s the best version because it’s one straight path”

Pretty sure it’s more to do with the characetrization and stuff.

#Miles Morales #Comicstorian #Spider-Man #Peter Parker #Ultimate Marvel Universe #Ultimate Comics #Ultimate Marvel #Marvel Comics #marvel universe #DC #DC Comics #DC Universe #spider-man ps4 #Spider-Man Playstation 4 #Insomniac Spider-Man #insomniac games

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wolfwhiteflowers · 5 years

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Oh Michonne :( ep 6-8. Fandom sucks. Also TWD speculations

*didn’t watch s9A. So it’s all hearsay and gifs.

I said after Rick is gone, Michonne’s arc is the saddest rn and is messed up storywise, imo. It’s something that made me wanna/kinda-did quit the show. It’s too sad. But Rick is not “dead’ so its okay (sort of). My point is,idk why, i like angsty characters and a hint of hope towards to a happy ending. So whatever is going on with Michonne, it’s interestinggggg to me.

Ofc, with angsty character/arcs, the fandom goes critical and dumb. I’ve been through like this in a fandom before. A lot with Carol character in the fandom, apparently. But it’s not like her, but other shows as well, like The 100. I’ve seen characters going down the unpopular dark road and in the end of the season, they come back like they usually be or stronger than before. Idk fandom is full of opinions and super fans/Stans being super judgmental and petty. But some will understand and some are just biased and blah. Idk ..ignore the rude ones. wtf u have to stan 1 character and 1 ship?zzz It also seems like a lot because TWD is a big show with tons of media outlets/articles, or Tumblr/internet where u see it all the time. But I just focus on what the writers are trying to show in the story.

So I’m hearing the fandom er..characters are not liking Michonne because of how she leads and is being closed off from everyone or new people. And that we don’t know what’s the mysterious X means which that connects to Michonne’s attitude. I’m thinking if they don’t like Michonne, then why is she leading ASZ, but then ASZ have a council so ok. Idk. ASZ still view her as a respectful leader.

Now Im just kinda speculating what is X mystery is about, eehh Idk and it’s like too early to speculate about it. It’s something to protect ASZ/her kids and something she knows that will upset her friends/other communities. It’s frustrating to wait to know what it is as we watch through s9 and as other characters disliking her now. I keep thinking it’s a deal or was a deal. Nothing is new rn about it. Like there’s no group trading with ASZ on something right now. I think it’s something she did or whatever, but others can change that if they can. So Idk and I think it’s something that only happened in the past and not on-going (i think). I see these theories and hints, I hope it’s not sooo bad or something. I really hope it’s not that theory that she slaughtered the Oceanside community to protect Negan. I doubt it’s that. lol Why the X then? Anyways,it could be Oceanside related. Maybe she tried to protect them but failed? Protecting a community of women who lost their husbands and fathers, and she failed them hits her too hard emotionally? Idk. That darn X. Maybe it relates to the helicopter people that took Rick and Jadis/Anne.

It makes me nervous seeing TF disliking Michonne for years and fans don’t know why and from the mysterious X (that Daryl has it too). But we do see Michonne’s point of view, her reasons. The writers showed some of it. But fans don’t know why (therefore judge and complain) and it makes me nervous about it because when I learn about it and Michonne’s reasons isn’t enough to make sense or be in-character. Then I don’t want to feel disappointed and end up not liking her. But so far, I don’t think I will be upset with her, it’s ok to me because Michonne knows it upset others and she still is doing what she usually does and for to protect her loved ones. Also it’s like she’s not still doing the “bad thing”, if that make sense. Like what I wrote up there about angsty arcs, it’s similar to a redemption arc and I think redemption arcs are hard to write and writers have to make the fans understand and believe it. (Idk why TWD writers are doing it backwards,mystery) Also, what about the other characters, will they forgive? Maybe something else -like introducing the Whisperer arc- will make the other characters and Michonne to forgive and change and be a Team Family again during s9B or s10. They have to come together and fight a common enemy(whisperers). It’s actually what I just thought of when Luke talked about survival of the fittest and what’s different from humans and others. And that Michonne kept saying stuff like she gotta only focus on ASZ. So I think in s9B is when she’s helping with other characters/communities from the whisperers and she’ll start to understand or she/they will start interacting again and be TF again.

Now her closed-off attitude and stuff. It’s amazing to see it on the show. I saw clips of Michonne and omg amazing acting. I’m like omg wow she’s so different. She was so closed-off and powerful from Magna’s group. But she goes like her usual self with her kids but it looks drastic from when she met Magna’s group. Then I saw the clip of Michonne and Carol. First real conversation between them. The gifs didn’t do it for me but watching it and hearing Michonne talk about her kids was so overwhelming. First of all Michonne’s talking about her kids. It’s like for reals, Judith and RJ are her kids. She said all proud, RJ is almost tall as Judith now. Like wow there’s changes in the show. It’s for reals, RJ is here. (im not talking about the fandomwank) It’s like omg Grimes family! (Grimes 3.0) And then, omg it’s a lot to take in, she talks to Carol with the denim shirt she has on that Rick used to wear. It’s like Rick’s presence was there. :( It was also like a Carick moment for me and a Carol x Michonne x Rick moment. Also, Carol mentioned about losing children and how they still kept going. It was something I wanted for them bond over. It felt like a big Team Family moment (or twd players) and maybe it was since ep 5/Rick’s last ep.

So I loved what the writers are doing so far with Michonne. I think it’s interesting with all the angst going on. I think part of Michonne being closed off is partly she still grieving on Rick, ofc. It’s been six years and by how she changed and wearing Rick’s old shirt. She really is having a hard time with the loss of Rick. Like imo, it looks like she’s having a really HARD time compared to other tv characters on shows I’ve seen. It’s kinda in-character for her to have a hard time to let go since she had those pet-walkers of Mike and Terry and was so closed-off for a long time before she met Andrea. I was thinking, being open-minded, like yeah she can start a new relationship because she doesn’t know Rick isn’t dead and it’s been 6 years. It’s okay and it’s her choice. (no hate on Lori). But with what Kang said and how they showed Michonne, she still doesn’t want to and she probably never will start a new romantic relationship, because Rick is her love of her life. Also, story-wise, Rick is still alive and Michonne is his love of his life and the protangist/hero of the TWD story, so it’s like they’ll find each other and have a happy ending. I don’t think the writers want to do it realistically/messy way of them having other romances when the ending of the story is near. Yeah, the ending is near-ish and I think the writers wanted to keep it simple with the Richonne storyline. Plus, Richonne was a likable power couple. They will reunite and be family again some day. So yeah I like this romantic angst going on with Michonne. It’s like Richonne moments are still going and well as seeing Michonne and kids together.

I’m suspecting Michonne is being closed-off is because it’s like she wants everything to not change. She wants everything to be back to when before Rick’s “died” so then it’s like a hope or a new start that she and Rick can be together and lead and do other stuff together again. So she’s like staying in ASZ, pausing time, focusing on one thing/community/kids to be safe. To feel in control. Or, like she’s waiting a sign...or she actually has hope to see him again, because she didn’t have closure from burying Rick and saying goodbye to him. Idk but maybe it’s something else/partly like X mystery or dealing with TF disliking her.

Idk, but I hope Judith and RJ get that radio to work and hear Rick’s message.

#michonne #twd speculations #carol peletier #*twd #richonne

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