#and when its just trolls they all talk like...alternian lmao and all humans are

[birchbow]

How exactly do moirails work? I keep getting confused between what constitutes a matespiritship and moirailegence. I know that moirails are able to help sooth and calm but I feel that there is way more to moirails than just that and I’m having a hard time understanding.

Ahhh, well, this is one of those things that's really only defined in-comic in a fairly skeletal way, and the form it takes in fics is always going to be like 50% headcanon, minimum. And in my case probably more because I've been fascinated by the concept of non-sexual romance/intimacy for a long time and so I've written a LOT of pale content lol. SO here's some rambling about moiraillegiance, which I'm pre-emptively putting under a cut because I know myself.

First, a brief review. Pale-related things we get in the canon, at a quick top-of-my-head scan, are basically:

some trolls are a more emotionally unstable/violent and will find somebody who complements their personality and helps keep them from murderously flying off the handle.*

of the four quadrants of relationships trolls are expected to have, this is not a concupiscient (sexual) one** but it is a (positive emotions toward your partner) one, which Karkat and the narration frame as "pity" (see "****")

At one point, a scene that appears to be setting up for a death-match is defused by one party shh-ing the other one and patting their face until they calm down, from which fandom took 'shooshing" and 'papping' as terms, from the sound effects in those panels.***

talking about your thoughts and emotions is mentioned several times in the context of pale relationships****, and I believe at one point called a feelings jam although I don't have it in me to dig back and see if that one is canon

that is the canon stuff that occurs off the top of my head

*how much of the part where the narrative explains quadrants is biased (because of what a shitshow Alternia is) is up for debate **fandom interpretation varies on this from "having sex with your moirail is a huge taboo" to "it's totally fine, it's just not one of the quadrants the drones demand contributions for". ***And also where I (and quite a few other people I would guess) started thinking about trolls having separate, alien instincts and responses to stimuli that humans would find relatively unremarkable, like having their face patted or having somebody shush them ****Alternia aggressively punishes perceived weakness to the point that seeing another troll being vulnerable and not killing them for it is narrated as "pity" which is the closest we seem to get to an Alternian-culture concept of "love". ANYWAY that probably has a finger on the needle RE: how exclusive it is to ONLY talk to your moirail about your feelings, because they're in a relationship with you and therefore hopefully won't cull you for it.

Things that are NOT canon include: most of it lmao. If you wanted an itemized list of things in my Troll Society writing that were made up almost entirely whole cloth, we would be here all day. Moving on!

When it comes to writing pale vs flushed, I mostly go by vibes, tbh lol. I suppose if I had to organize my criteria a little bit,,, I am going to spitball. Bear with me.

Pale looks at its partner and goes "I see the things wrong with you, and instead of culling you for them, we are going to fix them" and also "the place where we both are is a place we're both steady and safe" (passive/steadying/protective),

and flush is more like. "I see the things wrong with you, and instead of culling you for them I'm suffering them with you" and also "the place where we both are is a place where we Want More" (active/passionate/aggressive I guess??? Can't find the word).

or to rephrase

pale->unpicking feelings, controlling violent impulse, steadying emotional state, physical touch to invite a sort of subspace-adjacent hazy alien-arousal-that's-not-arousal.

flush->passionate, intense, active attraction, sometimes kind of violent! sometimes too passionate for its own good! Physical touch to work each other up and drive each other higher in a positive way (hopefully) (mostly) (trolls are violent assholes tbh)

I DON'T KNOW DUDE there's no guide for this stuff lol. As evidenced above, canon basically has just like a skeleton framework, so we are all out here putting these lines down ourselves.

Making this more complicated: regardless of what the author of any given fic headcanons as the social norm, it also makes sense to me that there are variations in trolls just like in humans. I usually don't write my pale pairings fucking, but it seems reasonable and inevitable to me that some trolls would be into that! Or trolls who were attracted to concupiscient quads but didn't want to bone down, although that's dangerous and untenable for reasons mentioned in previous asks.

fig 1: Meenah and Kurloz's swinging back and forth² from the (hate+fucking) quadrant to the (love/pity+no fucking³) quadrant in PoF felt like it came naturally as I was writing, because what else are two of the oldest, most powerful trolls in the universe going to do, when each of them is the only person around who comes close to actually knowing the other enough to hate/pity?

²Switching back and forth between quadrants is actually called "vacillating" and seems to be a fairly common event in troll society and media--the blurring/combining pale and pitch that they're doing is the more scandalous part, according to general fanon ³I have always preferred to write pale relationships with a lot of the traits my culture associates with sexual relationships (nudity, intimacy, an industrial porn complex lol) but to cut the sex and leave the rest and play with that contrast. How much of that is because I'm personally not sexually attracted to people, and I'm deeply Emotions about a society recognizing that kind of relationship as crucial and desirable??? I mean idk boss y'all don't pay me for introspection lol.

ANYWAY that also means the boundaries of what any given troll defines as "too much intimacy not to be pale" or "the feelings you're talking to me about are too personal for this not to be pale" or "you're touching me in a way that seems pale (or flushed)" are going to be different, which makes this extra hard to answer. Example!!

When I write Kurloz, I write him with an old-fashioned and strict view of what quadrants entail, but also being too old and above too many laws and social norms to give much of a shit about whether he blurs those lines or not most of the time. The little nods to things like it being slutty In His Time to wear your hair short and show off the roots of your horns hopefully bring across some of the cranky old man vibes lmao.

VERSUS when I write Karkat, I'm writing a much younger guy who spends a ton of time thinking about relationships and watching romcoms, synthesizing his own very in-depth thesis of What Feelings Are--and also just coming from a much younger generation. He's not nearly as comfortable blurring the lines, but he also places those lines in very different spots than Kurloz does.

TBH follow your heart haha it's just an alien sandbox and we're all just slapping sand around.

#ask time! #Price of Forgiveness #this is a long-winded way of saying ''eh I mean have fun with it'' but hopefully there's some helpful shit in there somewhere lol

[ceabu]

troll language

#kanaya maryam #rose lalonde #rosemary #roxy lalonde #homestuck #unnamed babygrubgirl #green babies au #i like to think trolls have accents when theyre talking english #cuz duuhh #and when its just trolls they all talk like...alternian lmao and all humans are ????!! #cuz whoa that sounds so differite!! #i love shit like that

[callmearcturus]

can you talk more about aquadromantic karkat and what that means to you/ for him? :0

I mean

I think Karkat being aquadromantic is the intended read on Karkat canonically. I'm not really interested in going up to people who believe otherwise and arguing with them about it, but Karkat Vs Quadrants is like a constant conflict from him in the story.

Karkat is, essentially, Troll Queer. And if you, like me, think Karkat inadvertently created humanity in his image, it's especially interesting how the machinations of Skaia continually face Karkat off against his greatest fears. His planet in the game was filled with his blood, the humans and carapacians had his blood color, and the humans eschew troll romance completely for... something that looks a lot like what Karkat's ideal of romance is.

Now, there's an extra step you can choose to take, and say that the entire idea of quadromanticism was cooked up to better control the species, but I'm not sure how that theory hashes out when you consider that the Beforus trolls had quadrants as well. SHRUG.

But with Karkat specifically, he does the classic blunder of learning a lot about the topic he weirdly can't understand. (What queer person is not guilty of this lmao.) He is genuinely and truly really fucking insightful and good at talking to people about their romantic issues, but his own are an unnavigable terrain to him.

More specifically, in the second Act 6 intermission I think is the longass Karkat vs Karkat log when he drags himself through the fucking mud and makes a comparison to a stock comedy archetype in troll media, about the guy who can't figure out his quadrants and tries to shove people into each one. There's that direct line, "You want [Terezi] in every quadrant like a damn fool," I believe.

Also if you've relistened to Act 4 and 5 recently, Karkat just cannot fucking nail down his own romantic inclinations. He doesn't know what he wants to be with Terezi, he blows off Vriska's teasing about what he's looking for in a pitch partner, and even admits to Kanaya that he thinks he got looped into treating his future self as a pitch flirtation because what he wants from a kismesis is unattainable. And if you take moirail to me someone who is concerned about you emotionally and will pacify your anger, then Karkat was pretty fucking pale for his entire team, as that's a core of his leadership style. His rule was not of intimidation but of compassion and a LOT of talking about feelings.

It's such a fucking mess.

Then: humans. And its definitely not a mistake that the story ends softly around the idea of Dave, Karkat, and quadrants. I think it's Vriska who even notes that no one knows what quadrant they settled on.

Reminder that Dave's idea of quadromanticism is that he does not want to play ball with it, like, at all. And his relationship with Karkat has the fingerprints of multiple quadrants.

I think the principle reason Dave and Karkat are 'quiet' about their relationship even though its very obviously a thing going on is that Dave is trying to figure out how to come out as bi/gay and Karkat is trying to figure out how to come out as aquadromantic. I don't think either of them, together, have many hangups about the relationship itself, only how the people around them would react and what it means in context of the worlds they came from. Just like Dave grew up in fucking Texas and was fuckdeep in heteronormativity and has been actively before our eyes unlearning toxic masculinity, so has Karkat grown up with the Alternian equivalent and is working through that. And don't undersell the magnitude of how they are each uniquely equipped to help each other through this exact baggage.

So. All that said. When I personally write Karkat, he will always be written as aquadromantic. Because I think its core to what makes Karkat an interesting character to me.

your honor i love him

#whomstve #karkat vantas

[caepaecaesurae]

> CC: Thank Meenah

Yesterday at 5:07 PM

caepaecaesurae WVe'vwe split, and the safe-house wvon't be needed anymore, on my end at least.  I'vwe left a small thank you present on the kitchen counter. I'd be in your debt if you could wvipe the coordinates used off of the pad's history list, if and wvhen convwenient. Thank you again, and havwe a nice night.

Yesterday at 9:38 PM

brackishbarracuda yeah i can do that isle head over in an hour oar so brackishbarracuda s good to sea u caepaecaesurae Good to see you too.  I appreciate the neutrality and the assistance. Havwing somewvhere empty to go helped more than once.

Today at 12:13 AM

brackishbarracuda ive been fused before an efin when its ppl u give a shit aboat its hard so i mean some place where u didnt have any extra ppl shoutin at u seemed pike a good idea to me caepaecaesurae It wvas. Did you separate from wvhomevwer it wvas peaceably?  Or vwia incompatibility? brackishbarracuda peaceably for both thankfully one was def a hell of a lot rockier than the other one tho aight the best puns are the ones u didnt mean to make i cannaut believe caepaecaesurae I do enjoy those ones. brackishbarracuda did u ever get hit w the gem thing caepaecaesurae As I am lost, it seems I did not. brackishbarracuda lemme find u a picture for full effect aight bc shit is stupid and mine was pike stupid times two brackishbarracuda http://imgur.com/sPQFO8t there we go rly tho how tf puts that shit on ur foot caepaecaesurae WVhat is that? brackishbarracuda aight so theres the weird sentient rock aliens who p much project around w/e rock they are an they do the fuse thing on purpose pike thats a thing they can do and a bunch a ppl got hit w it a while back usually shits pike on ur hand or ur forhead oar ur arm or somefin but no brackishbarracuda nah it was on my cod damn foot caepaecaesurae First I'vwe heard about them. ... You havwe my sympathies. WVhy the foot? brackishbarracuda idk i do naut fuckin no thats just where it was when i got got caepaecaesurae I imagine you sawv the tittastrophe wve had? brackishbarracuda yeah brackishbarracuda yeah that shore was somefin i saw w my own two eyes brackishbarracuda howd that whole thing go efin caepaecaesurae It looked rather like wve wvere split dowvn the middle vwertically in a lot of respects. The side wvith no breast had short hair like mine. WVe made a falsie so clothes wvould fit. brackishbarracuda now sea i woulda just said fuck it and done the whole half clothes shit pike jacket on one and dress on the other deal caepaecaesurae tsk.  I should'vwe talked to you more, that'd be a hell of a look. brackishbarracuda i mean u aint gotta b fused to pull it off right caepaecaesurae True.  It wvould complete the look though. caepaecaesurae I may try a half-and-half garment of some sort soon. brackishbarracuda plz take pictures i need this shit caepaecaesurae I do lovwe my selfie tag. brackishbarracuda s cause its good shit caepaecaesurae Howv do you feel about breasted, marginally nsfwv pictures of me? brackishbarracuda im down caepaecaesurae http://caepaecaesurae.tumblr.com/post/130431613390/speaking-of-anons-d brackishbarracuda v nice dam tho where tf did u get half those scars brackishbarracuda impressive caepaecaesurae I don't normally showv much skin. The large round ones on the legs are from an air battle invwolvwing laser cannons, during the game. brackishbarracuda uh first off fuckin ow caepaecaesurae Pff. Yes, but wve wvon. brackishbarracuda secondly i get it if u aint comfy w it oar w/e but u ought show more a it imo and that right theres why caepaecaesurae A good half of the scars you see there are from my first century on Alternia. ...at the end of wvhich, I began wvearing neck to wvrist to ankle bodyarmor, of the sort contained in that package.  Havwe you stopped by that hivwe yet, by the by? brackishbarracuda shit yeah i did i thought id said thank u btw caepaecaesurae You may havwe, I'm scattered lately. brackishbarracuda pike seariously i aint been in a searious scrape in a while but pike dam i cant get away from nofin w/o bleedin it feels like caepaecaesurae Armor that no one knowvs you're wvearing can be a wvonderful game changer. It turns a knife in the ribs into an invwitation to play. brackishbarracuda as much as i like it and the apron tbh shit is nice brackishbarracuda u probably made clams night more than mine w the armor caepaecaesurae I hope it servwes wvell, or entertains.  Or that the flavwor vwials do. brackishbarracuda hes the one whos gotta stitch me up half the tide caepaecaesurae A good role for a quadrant. If you elect to wvear the vwest, at least he'll only be stitching up limbs. brackishbarracuda lmao yeah fair also i should punch u in the nose for the fuckin shit u sent me pike it was so good that it legit made me mad how tf caepaecaesurae ... Hope player.  "Beyond belief" is my playground. brackishbarracuda throws my dam hands caepaecaesurae I can make things that I can imagine.  Cae*fora* made things that *She* could imagine. brackishbarracuda shit is fucked up caepaecaesurae A bit.  ... I usually try to make things that are slightly less... Intense... than that... I hope it wvasn't too much? brackishbarracuda isle survive but my tongue aint gonna b  happy w anyfin ever again this is me jokin mostly i aint upset at u oar anyfin caepaecaesurae ..Still, pardon. brackishbarracuda s aight cae ur good brackishbarracuda seariously tho why aint u show off ur scars more 38? caepaecaesurae Enough of them havwe unfortunate sources for it to be uncomfortable wvhen specific ones are indicated and remarked on, much of the time. caepaecaesurae ... Mostly, I don't like taking my armor off, evwer. I'vwe been getting better at removwing it long enough for selfies though. brackishbarracuda well dam the one u just showed me took some fuckin guts then didnt it caepaecaesurae Heh.  It wvas taken during a period of amnesia wvhere I didn't remember wvhere most of them wvere from. brackishbarracuda do u think u could do it again caepaecaesurae Possibly, though I think my selfie tag could use more less sexual things. brackishbarracuda u oughta take a pic w arlequin oar somefin then how tall efin are u btw pike are u taller than he is oar shorter or caepaecaesurae I'm a good foot and a half shorter than him, last I checked. brackishbarracuda well that makes me feel beta at least caepaecaesurae My adult height in sevweral centuries ought to be near wvhere he is nowv. brackishbarracuda yall are entirely too fuckin tall u kno that caepaecaesurae So I hear. If it makes you feel any better, all the humans top out somewvhere in the six or sevwen range I think.  They all look somewvhere betwveen fivwe and six nowv. The carapacians are a foot or twvo belowv that. brackishbarracuda pike im saury i realize u probably hear that alot but i am half a arlequins now hight an he was talkin pike sixteen feet an im overe here pike dude ur gonna b over three times my size how tf is that gonna efin work caepaecaesurae Carefully and wvith gusto. brackishbarracuda aight tru tho caepaecaesurae Havwe you evwer done the thing wvhere you rest hip to hip wvith a partner and pretend theirs is yours and marvwel at the difference? Some trolls enjoy that. I think that one wvill only improvwe as he ages, for you. caepaecaesurae "Look wvhat I'm packing nowv" brackishbarracuda i havent and now im kinda wonderin wtf ive been doin w my life caepaecaesurae You're wvelcome. .. Then again I'vwe used googly eyes in the bedroom before, so maybe my advwice isn't the best. brackishbarracuda bouy nah fuck that im gonna get a pack and use em on dirk that shit is perf caepaecaesurae My partner grewv annoyed and ripped them off, wvhich is honestly all I could hope for. brackishbarracuda tbh hell probably laugh till he cries which i count as a win brackishbarracuda but yeah tbh rippin em off sounds pike a good idea brackishbarracuda u kno me an u oughtta hang out sometide caepaecaesurae WVe should, I imagine wve'd get into heaps of trouble if any wvas avwailable. brackishbarracuda trouble is kinda my thing yeah brackishbarracuda i eel pike youd enjoy some trouble caepaecaesurae Once upon a time, maybe.  It's been a wvhile, and I might be a bit more boring nowv. Nice things, good stories, and good laughs?  Those are dear to heart. brackishbarracuda now sea mr suns out guns out tenta tattoo false boob ampora w the hella scars i aint believe you wouldnt enjoy a little trouble caepaecaesurae I'vwe had a vwery interesting life. I'm relearning howv to enjoy trouble. brackishbarracuda isle sea if i cant think of some baby trouble steps caepaecaesurae Sounds like a treat to me. caepaecaesurae Let me knowv sometime, alright? brackishbarracuda yeah def at the v least ur fun to talk to and anybody i can b a bad influence on is aight by me u feel caepaecaesurae Aye, I hear you It'd be nice to lean back in that direction somenight.  I'vwe been sitting around drinking tea a wvhile. brackishbarracuda s easy to get restless i aint efin alternian and sometides i just need to move and tear into somefin before that somefin becomes me caepaecaesurae Aye. ...I sail a ship around sometimes.  Transport pads to get back to hivwe often. Plenty of wvild lands out there to explore. brackishbarracuda theres plenty a world here to sea if u ever decide u wanna we aint managed a drone yet be in a week oar so probably caepaecaesurae The mile-high deer?  Aye I'vwe a curiosity. I'm relievwed that you're considering the drone. brackishbarracuda im uh considerin more than the drone tbh caepaecaesurae Aye? brackishbarracuda been thinkin a puttin my crown on and meanin it caepaecaesurae Lacking in context, I'm imagining you calling yourself queen of a single hivwe surrounded by largish deer. brackishbarracuda i mean in all technicality i earned the fuckin thing i blew up my planet i killed the empress so by right etc etc blah blah blah i just been runnin from it since brackishbarracuda no u aint wrong i gotta start somwhere fuckin ridiculous as it is if they aint anybody else on the planet isle take it theres a small frozen planet my ex red left me so thats two off the bat ig caepaecaesurae If there's no one else it seems a bit... abrupt. Then again, givwen a single wvorking mothergrub, one is nevwer far from an empire. I suspect Arlequin wvould havwe mixed feelings. brackishbarracuda ive convinced my spade to let me sit w em and do some political diplomatic shit and i aint lookin to be a bloody conquerer im just lookin to stop runnin from what i was hatched for mayb do some decent shit w whatever authority i got somefin betta than home was anyway caepaecaesurae I wvish you luck wvith it if you do. brackishbarracuda thanks 38/ caepaecaesurae It's hard to get in trouble wvhen you're in charge. brackishbarracuda why u gotta do me like this caepaecaesurae WVell... Ask Tyfora howv much fun her powver is. brackishbarracuda id rather naut caepaecaesurae Ask Arlequin howv much he wvants to strivwe for a newv flag -- at least, this early. brackishbarracuda i oughta talk to him aboat it tho yeah caepaecaesurae Powver is complicated.  That's all. caepaecaesurae More so than you might be preparing yourself for. brackishbarracuda i aint trynna rush into anyfin aight an isle talk to arlequin i kno shit aint easy it aint somefin im thinkin aboat lightly caepaecaesurae Then I wvish you luck.  I'm cautious about swvearing loyalties lightly, but you'll likely havwe me on call if emergencies strike. brackishbarracuda i dont take that lightly either cae thank u i afishiate it caepaecaesurae WVe'll see wvhat comes.  I'm afraid it's late though.  Another night? brackishbarracuda a course thanks for talkin at me caepaecaesurae Looking forwvard to it.  Rest wvell wvhen you go. brackishbarracuda yeah sleep good

#ooc eyes only #brackishbarracuda #contains link to a pic of cae in his underwear #because why wouldnt it