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mummer · 4 months

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would you mind sharing some of your twow predictions/hopes? i'm trying to cope with a lack of twow 🤒

oh man where would i even begin. im gonna do straight up hard predictions and not allow myself to be very self indulgent here is what i think will happen unironically

melisandre does not intentionally resurrect jon bc that makes no sense for her character. i dont think she'll be the one to do it at all but if she does it will be an accident and also a brain shattering experience for her

jon is considered king beyond the wall (not king in the north.... yet) but you already knew that

jon spends more time beyond the wall actually. i am keeping this concept vague

night lamp is definitely real and stannis takes winterfell at some point but he wont survive the book

sam's oldtown chapters become unexpected fandom sleeper faves like theon's in dance

the rosby heir is olyvar frey

dany does not come to westeros before her final chapter and never even encounters jon. slave revolt in volantis yayyyyyy!!!!!

there is still no R+L=J reveal

loras ends up fine but drastically scarred

elia sand and aegon have a forbidden romance

pyp and grenn die offpage (i predict this so that i can be pleasantly surprised when they show up)

danny flint is revealed to be coldhands shut up actually

gerris drinkwater is surprisingly important to the plot

brienne and jaime both survive the encounter with LSH and survive the whole book i saw this in my mind

barristan either dies really early on or he eventually defects to join aegon because he thinks he's the more rightful heir. the ol treason for blood

the faceless men turn out to just be another branch of the iron bank who are doing assassinations for money more than obscure religious/political reasons. this blackpills arya enough for her to return home

sansa encounters jeyne again and this is what provokes her to move against littlefinger

theon...... joins the night's watch..... question mark

there's a gay sex scene but no one likes it

#asoiaf #other than that i am extremely open to whatever happens <3 it's all fine to me #i know im not going to be able to predict anything in a significant way so i'll take my little inferences and i dont mind being wrong #wait shjdfhjhdf the way i said i wasnt gonna be self indulgent and then was also like: AND GERRIS IS A SPECIAL GIRL--#idc about kitn jon like i believe hes named in robbs will and those two guys from riverrun are gonna tell him about it #but hes got bigger zombies to fry to be honest. like it’ll probably happen but i wont be cheering

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dailysansastark · 7 months

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"Be quiet, I haven't given you leave to speak. You enticed him, just as your mother did that night in Riverrun, with her smiles and her dancing. You think I could forget? That was the night I stole up to his bed to give him comfort. I bled, but it was the sweetest hurt. He told me he loved me then, but he called me Cat, just before he fell back to sleep. Even so, I stayed with him until the sky began to lighten. Your mother did not deserve him. She would not even give him her favor to wear when he fought Brandon Stark. I would have given him my favor. I gave him everything. He is mine now. Not Catelyn's and not yours." All of Sansa's resolve had withered in the face of her aunt's onslaught. Lysa Arryn was frightening her as much as Queen Cersei ever had. "He's yours, my lady," she said, trying to sound meek and contrite. "May I have your leave to go?" "You may not." Her aunt's breath smelled of wine. "If you were anyone else, I would banish you. Send you down to Lord Nestor at the Gates of the Moon, or back to the Fingers. How would you like to spend your life on that bleak shore, surrounded by slatterns and sheep pellets? That was what my father meant for Petyr. Everyone thought it was because of that stupid duel with Brandon Stark, but that wasn't so. Father said I ought to thank the gods that so great a lord as Jon Arryn was willing to take me soiled, but I knew it was only for the swords. I had to marry Jon, or my father would have turned me out as he did his brother, but it was Petyr I was meant for. I am telling you all this so you will understand how much we love each other, how long we have suffered and dreamed of one another. We made a baby together, a precious little baby." Lysa put her hands flat against her belly, as if the child was still there. "When they stole him from me, I made a promise to myself that I would never let it happen again. Jon wished to send my sweet Robert to Dragonstone, and that sot of a king would have given him to Cersei Lannister, but I never let them . . . no more than I'll let you steal my Petyr Littlefinger. Do you hear me, Alayne or Sansa or whatever you call yourself? Do you hear what I am telling you?" A Storm of Swords - Sansa VII

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transdimensional-void · 8 months

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why sansa will be queen in the north

the main thing that convinces me sansa will end the story ruling from winterfell (other than her show ending) is the way that possession of her has become equated with possession of winterfell. hence, the reason for the tyrells to attempt to marry her to their heir, the lannisters to force her into marriage with one of their own, and littlefinger to steal her for his own purposes.

it doesn't make sense for anyone other than a stark to control winterfell at the end of the story, and as demonstrated by tywin's plotting, sansa's children can be used by her husband's family to attempt to take control of winterfell. so, ending the story with sansa married into another family just sets up the threat of that family trying to use her or her children to steal winterfell in the future. there would be no resolution of an issue which has been a huge part of her storyline so far.

but, more than the "controlling sansa means controlling winterfell" angle, there is the "controlling winterfell means controlling sansa" angle. sansa's entire story begins with her father, lord of winterfell, essentially trading her to robert in exchange for the king's trust. because of the patriarchal nature of this society, the horrible truth is that whoever is head of the stark family essentially owns the rights to sansa's body and its reproductive abilities.

ned transferred those rights to robert, and upon his and ned's death, the lannisters seized control of them. the tyrells attempted to steal control of sansa, and littlefinger successfully did. once sansa is back in the north and her family in control of winterfell again, the right to determine sansa's future will also return to the head of the stark family.

that means that if anyone other than sansa--jon, bran, rickon, even her sister--ends up ruling winterfell, sansa will never gain control over her own body and future. she will have spent the entire story as someone else's pawn, a vessel for others' goals, only to end the same way. of course we would trust her family members to have her best interest at heart...just like her father did at the beginning of the story, right?

even if they promised to allow her to remain single if she wished, there's no guarantee they wouldn't change their mind and ask her to marry for the good of the family at some point. the head of the family would retain that right, no matter what they promised, meaning sansa is not the one in control of her future. similarly, even if they promised her to right to choose her own husband, it would simply be a transfer of ownership, exactly as we saw occur between ned and robert at the beginning of the story. if her husband pre-deceased her, control of her future would either pass to her son (as we saw with catelyn and robb) or back to the head of the family.

no, sansa simply will not end the story as a political pawn of a family member, nor will she end the story as someone's consort. the only possible way that sansa will be free to control her own marriage and reproductive choices is to become the head of the stark family. furthermore, if she is only lady of winterfell, a vassal to the king in the south, she still does not retain that control. her liege could still force her into a marriage she does not want, not unlike how robert used his power as king to pressure ned into accepting the betrothal between sansa and joffrey.

in other words, the only ending where sansa is freed from the possibility of being used as a pawn for political marriage yet again is the ending where she is queen in her own right.

(nb - for those about to question why i don't make the same argument about äryä needing to become a ruler to gain control over her body and future is that political marriage has played a negligible role in her storyline. the two times someone has tried to marry her off, it has had exactly zero effect on her personally. the frey betrothal ends without her ever even knowing it existed, and the fake marriage to ramsey will also likely end with ramsey's death before she even shows back up in the north. besides, she's got nymeria foreshadowing, aka, foreshadowing of leading a group of people off to new lands. she is also foreshadowed to end as a ruler of sorts. it's no more likely that she will end up under a family member's control than that sansa will.)

#have i said anything here that others haven't already said before?#probably not #but i couldn't stop thinking about it so i had to post anyway #patriarchal bullshit

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adarkandmagicalforest · 7 months

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sandor growing up being shown that knighthood and chivalry is total bullshit, then allowing that persona he'd had of the hound to die, becoming the gravedigger to find penance only to be inspired by the mere mention of sansa in the vale, in danger by another false knight AND littlefinger, rising again as sandor clegane to act as the true knight he'd once wanted to be and who sansa had always dreamed of

#sansa stark #book sansa #sandor clegane #sansa x sandor #sansan #grrm please just publish winds

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mejcinta · 8 months

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I think people lose all objectivity when it comes to digesting Aegon because he's problematic and flawed and many confuse the appreciation of his character for some weird endorsement of Aegon's bad actions.

Some even want to claim the actor hates his work. This is so false.

And here's the thing: the prevalent hatred people have for Aegon is less about the horrible things he's done and more about the fact that he's a Green.

Team Black abbhor the man and justifiably so. However, they adore their Daemon despite of all the violence he's committed against women. They even cheered him as he committed those acts. 😣

People love Jaime despite of what he did to Cersei in front of their dead son and how he hurled a child down a window.

People enjoy Tyrion and even Littlefinger.

Dany stans worship Khal Drogo despite of what he did to her on the onset of their marriage!

But hey, you must all pull a stop at Aegon! Another flawed and problematic character that has even yet to be developed because season 1 gave most of the Queen's and Princess' kids crumbs.

All right, got it.

Hate the character because it's a vibe. Hate the actor for doing his job. Lie that he hates his job (he's never said anything of the sort). Lie that people who enjoy other aspects of his character condone rape etc.

Aegon is not everyone's cup of tea for sure. But people have to stop lying about Tom Glynn Carney and people that view characters with nuance.

#fandom bs #aegon ii targaryen #hotd cast #tom glynn carney #team black bs

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all-about-the-tea-parties · 2 years

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Someone on tiktok pointed out that Viserys was quick to being convinced that killing Aemma was the “only way” to save the baby and how it shows he’s easily manipulated and why Daemon is ultimately right about how Viserys should’ve kept him close

Initially I was on “the maester didn’t try hard to determine if the breach was truly dangerous and if Aemma was a lost cause because they hate women” and “Viserys is a coward for not giving her the option to steel herself for her own death”

But now I’m on “holy shit Otto could’ve bribed the maester to lie about the issue w/ the pregnancy knowing Viserys is both selfishly wanting a boy and lacked any suspicion of ppls motives, considering Aemma was screaming like a mother during labour but outside of that was pretty calm and coherent and happy. He did this knowing Viserys wouldn’t have a clue about childbirth. Knowing that he’s impulsive and cowardly. Knowing, perhaps, that if this child FAILS to live after birth and Aemma survives, there will be no more opportunity for snatching succession, as she made it clear (supposedly in private) that she wanted no more children. And if the child LIVES (remember the maester walked away from the bed for a moment) then the succession is sealed, as he would likely be married to another Targaryen. Otto intended for Aemma and Baelon to die (as the maesters are in the pockets of the hightowers, and for months have been making this birth stressful since Aemma couldn’t even have a BATH), so that he could shove his daughter into Viserys’ bed. THIS is why Alicent hurts herself, as she’s been preparing for this move since the day she befriended Rhaenyra.”

Only a few hours after the deaths he’s making moves. Isolating Viserys. Making him hate his brother. Yes, Daemon is violent and volatile. He’s probably a terrible choice for a king, but what does Otto have to gain from saying this. Daemon is truly only a menace to the smallfolk. If that. He’s been shown to spend most of his time away from people. His display of violence could be the norm… or a rare occasion of violence for show. He’s a Targaryen (they’re impulsive).

We see Daemon be mean and Otto be hurt. But are Otto’s reactions intentional? Are we finally getting a Littlefinger that tricks even the audience into trusting him?

#I’m excited #also I think Aemma was wrongly killed #and now feel a touch paranoid #was it an assassination?#am I giving the writers too much credit?#the writers are GRR Martin tho #fuck Viserys man #he’s truly just an entitled fucker #walks about like he’s simply not being actively threatened #Rhaenys should’ve been queen #hotd #hotd spoilers #house of the dragon

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leupagus · 2 months

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Please note that this fic is going to take the better part of 2024 and probably 2025

(and given my track record might never be done):

Sansa

"Do you like the taste?" asked Littlefinger, watching her closely as she tried the wine. He always watched her closely.

They had stopped at the Inn at the Crossroads; she hadn't wanted to, but she would have had to explain to Littlefinger why. So she had choked down a meal and refused to think about the last time she had come through this way, where the first member of her family had been murdered in the stable while Joffrey had sniveled and lied and shown her, for the first time, who he really was.

"I don't see what all the fuss is about," she answered. "Why do men love it so much?"

Littlefinger shrugged. "It gives some men courage."

"Does it give you courage?"

He smiled, the way he did when she had stung him. He would take his revenge on her somehow, she knew. He was nothing like Joffrey, but there was a smallness to him that reminded her of the king.

The dead king, now.

A flash of armor to her right made her look up; a familiar woman, tall and broad of shoulder in a suit of armor, had approached their table. "Lord Baelish. Lady Sansa. My name is Brienne of Tarth."

Sansa opened her mouth to reply, to tell her she knew who she was, of course she knew. Tyrion had mentioned her often, usually after rebuffing yet another request by the lady of Tarth for an audience with Sansa. I hope you don't mind, and Jaime vouches for her, but Cersei has made it clear she's to go nowhere near you and frankly this giantess makes me a bit nervy. He'd been glad to recount the tale of Lady Brienne and Ser Jaime, traipsing through the Riverlands on their way to King's Landing.

Before Sansa could speak a word, Littlefinger had made some cutting remark, the sort he was so good at. She'd yet to be on the receiving end of any of them but she flinched all the same, watching Brienne's face. Littlefinger was something like Joffrey — and something like herself, too, when she'd been young and pleased at her own wit. Looking back, she knew now that she had only ever been cruel.

Lady Brienne seemed not even to hear Littlefinger; as though he were no more than a gnat to be tolerated until such moment as he could be swatted. She knelt, awkward but not clumsy, and looked earnestly up at her. "Lady Sansa. Before your mother's death, I was her sworn sword. I gave my word I would find you and protect you. I will shield your back and keep your counsel, and give my life for you if needs be. I swear it by the Old Gods and the New."

Would she have given the answering vow? She would never know, because once again Littlefinger was talking, sliding his glance over to Sansa to see what remarks might prompt a reaction. Sansa stayed still and watched as Lady Brienne's attention was at least drawn away, glaring at Littlefinger.

"Strange," Littlefinger was saying. "I knew Cat since the time we were children. She never mentioned you."

"It was after Renly's murder," said Lady Brienne, direct and blunt. She and Sandor would get along well, Sansa thought suddenly. Pity they had never met.

"Ah, yes," said Littlefinger. "You were accused of killing him."

Lady Brienne blushed, a splotchy red spreading across her cheeks. Shame, Sansa thought, but not guilt. "I tried to save him," she spat out. She did not glance over, to see if Sansa would believe her.

"But you were accused."

"By men who did not see what happened."

"And what did happen?"

"He was murdered by a shadow. A shadow with the face of Stannis Baratheon."

"A shadow? With a face?" Littlefinger turned to Sansa, and that was when she knew whatever he was about to say was a lie. "This woman swore to protect Renly. She failed. She swore to protect your mother. She failed." He smirked up at Lady Brienne. "Why would I want somebody with your history of failure guarding Lady Sansa?"

Lady Brienne made a face. "Why would you have any say in her affairs?"

"Because I am her uncle. I married her Aunt Lysa shortly before my beloved's untimely death. We're family now. And you are an outsider. Forgive me, Lady Brienne. But experience has made me wary of outsiders."

She gaped at him, then looked back at Sansa. "Lady Sansa," she said, and paused, as though at a loss for how to convince her. "If we can have a word alone?"

"Yes." Sansa rose, knocking into the table. The goblet of wine spilled and ran down her dress, but she was on her feet at last. The sellswords Littlefinger had brought with him moved in, one of them putting a hand on Lady Brienne's shoulder. She tensed and in just a few seconds there would be bloodshed, there would be someone dead on the floor and it would be her fault.

"Uncle Petyr," she said loudly, her heart rabbiting out of her chest, "Thank you very much for understanding. I will speak with Lady Brienne as you suggest, and then we shall resume our journey."

The sounds of eating and talking died out as faces turned toward her. A round-faced boy came bustling up, a wide, customer-friendly smile pasted on his face. "Is there anything I can help with, milord?" he chirruped.

"A room for the ladies," said Littlefinger, still watching her. She nodded very slightly and his mouth twitched.

"Have you anything on the floor above?" she added, addressing the boy with a nervous glance toward Lady Brienne.

"Er," came the reply, "Yes? Right this way, milady. Miladies."

Sansa leaned toward Littlefinger. He smelled of wine and the oils he used on his hair. "Could some of the guards watch the door?" she whispered. "And some near the stairs. Just…in case."

"Of course," he said, though his eyes were on her mouth.

The way Littlefinger had spoken of her mother, there had been a great rivalry between himself and Ned Stark; and before that a rivalry between himself and her uncle Brandon, who'd been betrothed to Catelyn before his murder. Littlefinger had always sounded like the defeated lover, the man who had nearly won his beloved's hand.

Mother had never mentioned Littlefinger. Father had, once they were in King's Landing and he'd been forced to admit an acquaintance. He'd sounded irritated more than angry; her mother had never loved him, had hardly ever thought of him. Her parents had lived and loved each other and all the while Littlefinger had stewed in his own curdled affections, imagining a love story that had never existed.

She could never decide what had moved her to kiss him on the cheek. Perhaps it had been a clever ploy to distract him, or a way to tell him she would return. She would have liked to have been that clever. But in the moment she could remember only how sorry she felt for him. "I'll just be a few moments," she promised him, lying.

Minutes later she was in a small bedchamber, with two dirty windows on each outside wall and the ominous creak of leather and metal just outside the door, signaling that Littlefinger's sellswords had taken up position. Lady Brienne, for her part, looked as uncomfortable as she had downstairs. "Thank you for speaking with me, my lady," she said.

"Can you fight them all?" Sansa asked her, keeping her voice down. They would need to be overheard soon, but they had a few seconds. Enough time, perhaps enough time. "If there's four in the corridor, and four downstairs."

"What? Yes, of course," said Lady Brienne, expression torn between confusion and offense. She fought off a bear once, Tyrion had told her with glee. Even beat my dear brother in a sword fight. When he still had both hands.

Sansa went to the first window. A long drop onto hard ground, and it faced the road as well as the hitching posts. The second was more promising: hay bales stacked haphazardly next to the wall, and the wood only twenty hards away.

"Start talking," she hissed at Lady Brienne.

She frowned. "I'm sorry?"

Sansa mimed opening the window. "Start talking. About anything. Honor or duty or what my mother was like. Whatever you'd say if you were trying to convince me."

Lady Brienne's eyes widened in understanding. "I…am not much for speeches, my lady," she said slowly, then more loudly as Sansa pulled open the window slowly, mindful of any squeaking. "But I found your mother an honorable woman, and your brother too. I brought Ser Jaime Lannister back to King's Landing at her request, so that you might be returned to your mother in exchange."

It would never have worked; she'd known that even then. The Lannisters did not understand the notion of letting go of an advantage, once they'd sunk their teeth into one. Even Tyrion had never offered to take her to her family once they'd been married. He'd had his reasons, and they had been good ones, but she'd learned another lesson that day. "So you sacrificed your oath to protect my mother for an oath to protect me?" she asked, making sure her voice carried as she swung her legs over the sill. "How can I know you'll not abandon me, too?"

It was important not to think. If she thought about it, she wouldn't do it.

She held her breath, put her hands over her mouth, and fell.

#yes I know they stop at AN inn not necessarily THE inn at the crossroads #but any excuse to have Hot Pie in a scene #also curious how people will react to Sansa Stark: Girl Who Jumps From Windows #because she does in canon but lbr that's after some uhhh gnarly shit goes down #would sansa do that if not pushed as far as she was at the end of season 5?#let's find out!#game of thrones #got: bitches get stuff done

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jackoshadows · 8 months

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It's baffling how this fandom keeps theorizing that Arya's subplots and role in the story can be replaced by any Stark, specifically Sansa, and it would be just the same when the show did replace fake Arya with another character - and then GRRM specifically refuted that change several times and pointed to that change on the show as where show canon diverged from book canon!

This is a fandom talking point that GRRM himself has refuted and said 'Nah, you can't do that. That plot specifically needs Fake Arya. The story needs fake Arya in the North and when the TV show replaced her with another character, the TV show then diverges from the books and becomes different canon' .

Also GRRM is not talking about the writing for show Sansa in season 6, 7 or 8 and the direction D&D took her character on the show where the only support she gets is from Littlefinger and the Vale army he rallies to help her. In fact GRRM does not even mention Sansa in this interview. He is talking specifically of 'Fake Arya' and how Fake Arya is important to that plot point in the North.

They (D&D) started making changes even as early as season one. And I remember I had discussions with them back in season one. When I was more involved in the process, when we’d discuss things and the fact that they removed Jeyne Poole was a very early thing. They actually said, oh no, Jeyne Poole is in it. You see the girl that’s sitting next to Sansa in the one scene in the feast at Winterfell. Yes, that’s Jeyne Poole, but you never hear a name and she’s not in it, but I did tell them. ‘Yes, but there’s the butterfly effect’, as I called it, deriving from the famous Ray Bradbury story, A Sound of Thunder, crush a butterfly the Jurassic and suddenly you changed all of human history from that point forward. Unintentionally. A little change in a long narrative can have big changes further on. And now, Gone with the Wind didn’t have to worry about that, cause those two children that they removed never had any impact on the story. And Margaret Mitchell didn’t go on to write 6 more novels in which the children grew up and became the leader of the Ku Klux Klan. Whatever the hell, you know, she might have done with those two boys.

And I think they were both boys, and Rhett’s daughter was a girl. So she didn’t have to deal with the butterfly effect there. You know, when we remove Jeyne Poole from season one, then you don’t have Jeyne Poole to be the fake Arya, as happens in the book. So what do you do then? The butterfly effect has done that. (---)

The butterfly effect can have that, but getting back to the whole issue of canon, the butterfly effect affects the canon. But there’s also sometimes deliberate changes in a show where the showrunners or the writers or the studio, the network, or wherever it comes from, goes in a different direction. So what we’re doing at this point in the history of A Song of Ice and Fire, Game of Thrones, Westeros, whatever you wanna call it. Yeah. We have two canons. We have the show canon, the Game of Thrones canon. And we have the Song of Ice and Fire canon.

GRRM thought Fake Arya was so important he was insisting to D&D way back while filming season one in 2010 to cast Jeyne Poole.

And even D&D realized that the Jon/Arya relationship is so sacred that they didn't even attempt to replicate that with Sansa in the North. They even had show Jon Snow make a suicidal attempt to save his little brother Rickon Stark - which show Sansa advises against because fuck family - but we never got the whole Jon breaking his NW oaths to attack the Boltons for Arya Stark happening on the show with Sansa.

The asoiaf fandom loves appropriating book Arya's plots for Sansa. Jonsa shippers love appropriating her relationship with Jon for their utterly absurd crackship all the while dragging Arya down as 'ugly' 'violent' and 'masculine'.

Non-shippers love to give away all the politicking around Arya to Sansa, take away Arya intelligence and know-how of the North because their sexism only allows them to see one Stark girl as political and leader of the North. It's not about what the author has actually written for these characters, no, it's about which character passes their standard for femininity.

So yeah, one is free to replace Arya with Sansa because one is dissatisfied with Sansa's canonical book story that GRRM has written for the character and instead prefer Benioff and Weiss' show fanfiction or want Arya's book story for Sansa's character because she's conventionally beautiful and a 'real girl' according to the tradfems.

However, keep in mind that GRRM thinks 'Fake Arya' is very important to his story and that's a Northern political sublot that revolves specifically around Arya Stark in the books.

Once again, the Stark sisters and their book subplots are not interchangeable!

#GRRM #Arya Stark #asoiaf #anti GOT #Fandom nonsense

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allovesthings · 9 months

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Rhaegar and Catelyn did not start theirs respective war. We know who is responsible for the war of the five kings AND for the rebellion and it's not them.

The rebellion was going to happen anyway regardless of Rhaegar making the decision to take Lyanna (whether or not he really took her, she chose to go with him or he rescued her). The Starks and Baratheons may not have been the leaders of said rebellion but a rebellion was going to happen. The rebellion started because they had a mad king on the throne who refused to uphold the social contract between him and the noble houses, executed two nobles unlawfully and then asked for the head of Ned and Robert who, at the time, did nothing wrong. A mad king who was influenced by bad advisors who wanted power for themselves.

Was the Lyanna choice, the reason as to why Brandon went to King's Landing in the first place ? Yes absolutely but Aerys would have crossed that line sooner or later with another noble who offended him. Also we don't know if Rhaegar and Lyanna tried to send a message to Brandon before he got to King's Landing and he never got it.

The war of the five kings was also going to happen anyway regardless of Catelyn making the decision to take Tyrion. Littlefinger and Lysa used the tension between the Starks and the Lannisters to start it (tensions started by Tywin's extreme violence) and then a young "mad King" probably influenced by Littlefinger executed a noble unlawfully again (therefore breaking the social contract between the monarchy and the noble house) and demanded the rest of his family to come down to King's Landing to bend the knee (let's be real, Joffrey would have killed Robb and Cat if they did).

Did Cat taking Tyrion accelerate said tensions ? Yes absolutely but the war was also inevitable because Littlefinger was pushing it AND because Joffrey was a sadistic king who also would have crossed said line regardless.

#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #catelyn stark #tyrion lannister #rhaegar targaryen #lyanna stark #brandon stark #aerys targaryen #joffrey baratheon #joffrey lannister #tywin lannister #ned stark #robert baratheon

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johannesburchard · 7 months

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that borgias scene where lucrezia is fleeing naples and cesare is hurrying to naples to save her and they meet on the road and lucrezia flies into his arms and he begins raining kisses all over her face while her husband and one of cesare's men look on

and cesare's companion is like, "not everyone can love like that" and that's the moment when lucrezia's husband Realizes

except it's jon and sansa reuniting after, i dunno, the battle to retake winterfell, and they're both just so relieved to see one another alive and well, and it's like littlefinger and dolorous edd watching them practically make out in public

#jonsa

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pessimisticpigeonsworld · 3 months

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D&D saying that one of their favorite plots from the books is the Boltons in Winterfell is a massive sign of their sexism. Now, for anyone one else, I'd probably not care, in fact, I'd agree it's a very interesting part. However, when it comes to the showrunners who needlessly wrote in excessive rape and violence against women, I see it as a red flag. That's compounded by the way they wrote it.

From the beginning of the show, D&D sabotaged the storyline by removing Jeyne Poole. Keep in mind, ADWD was released in 2008, while GOT premiered in 2011, meaning there was no possible way for D&D to not know everything necessary to bring about that specific plot. Add to that the fact that GRRM was heavily involved in season one, them blatantly ignoring Jeyne makes even less sense if they truly cared about adapting it properly.

Knowing this, that D&D themselves sabotaged their own story, the way it was handled makes a bit more sense, though not nearly enough. Without Jeyne there to play the part of fake Arya, a new bride for Ramsay was needed. Sansa was D&D's favorite character, they were unsatisfied with the story GRRM had written for her, they wanted more screen time and plot relevance for her. It seemed like making Sansa take Jeyne's place was a good solution to both these issues.

Except it wasn't. Littlefinger sending Sansa out of the Vale to marry Ramsay makes no sense. Not only is Sansa the object of Littlefinger's obsession, a replacement for Catelyn in his mind, she also was important to Littlefinger getting the Vale on his side (in the show). She was charming the lords and knights, balancing their intense dislike for him with their desire to help/protect her. Not to mention she was his only alibi to save him from accusations of Lysa's murder. Sending her away from the Vale harms Littlefinger's plans. She also would definitely not be "protected" from Cersei; after all the Boltons were loyal to the Lannisters and hated the Starks, what's to stop them from killing Sansa or handing her over once the Northern lords are more settled?

Speaking of the Northern lords, D&D removed the Northern Conspiracy. Throughout the book plot, the Northern lords are plotting to save Arya and depose the Boltons (in a nutshell, it's actually much more complex, but I'm not going into that rn). It's an excellent expression of how the Northerners loved the Starks and hate the Boltons. In the show, the lords are a bit disgruntled, sure, but they have no interest in deposing the Boltons and saving Sansa.

Another major part of the storyline minimized by the show is Theon/Reek. Theon's struggle with identity is a major part of his character throughout the series, and ADWD is no different. He's been stripped entirely of his identity by Ramsay's torture and Theon's own choices. Part of his arc in this book is discovering himself apart from the Starks and the Greyjoys.

That's definitely not what the show did. As I said earlier, Sansa is D&D's favorite character, so naturally she became the center focus of this arc, while Theon was pushed aside. He's essentially reduced to the method of Sansa's escape and goes on track to return to his pre-season one perception of himself: a Stark. This is a massive disservice to his character, Theon isn't a Stark; his life with them is important to his storyline and will definitely inform what he becomes, but it's not the true culmination of his arc. Basically, Theon was turned into a side character in his own story. It's through his pov we see this story, he's the character most tied to Ramsay. Obviously Jeyne is important and a main character in her own right for this arc, but she is not the central character we see the story through. So why is Sansa? She has no stake in this story, Jeyne is forced there after being sex trafficked and Theon is a captive.

So what does this leave for the show version of the plot? There's no conspiracy, Theon's pushed to the side, and politics and overall story are sacrificed. Well that leaves torture and violence against Ramsay's bride. Without the many moving parts of that storyline, it's just a story of a woman being abused horribly by her husband and eventually escaping. However, the escape isn't even the main aspect of the story focused on, that's always the abuse. It's also purely Sansa's abuse, not Theon's or the many people tortured and murdered by Ramsay, Sansa is the sole focus.

So basically, D&D took a plotline that's filled with the inner workings of Northern politics and the complexities of battling identity loss and reduced it to another excuse to show a woman be raped and abused on screen. The desire to turn this stroy into another way to make Sansa suffer is disturbing, and to make matters worse she fucking thanks Ramsay later on?? This whole storyline in the show is disgusting and yet another sign of how sexist D&D are.

#anti got #anti d&d #also sophie turner had just turned 18 when the season was filmed #disgusting #theon greyjoy #ramsay bolton #sansa stark #jeyne poole #asoiaf

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sansastarkmeta · 5 months

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An early outline of AFFC written around 2003-04 by GRRM was recently shared on r/asoiaf. Read the original post here for more info.

Two entries are notes for Sansa POV chapters:

SANSA DIVIDE CHAPTER – LF: CERSEI HAS OVERREACHED SHE'LL SOON BE DONE

LF of course stands for Littlefinger.

SANSA ?OLD - RESOLVE TO BE SS & TAKE NORTH 1 - TOURNEY OF WINGED KNIGHT 2 - SWEETROBIN [WOOS? WEDS? unclear] 3 - NEWS FROM W.H. KILL THE MOUSE ④

SS very likely stands for Sansa Stark, and W.H. for White Harbor. The mouse of course refers to Ser Shadrich.

The people at r/asoiaf who transcribed GRRM's handwriting favor the reading 2 - Sweetrobin *woos, but *weds is also possible, as well as *wees although less likely.

The circled 4 seems to indicate the then total count of Sansa POV chapters that GRRM had already written drafts of (3) plus one he was planning on writing (already partially written).

As for what can be inferred from all this... The first note almost certainly became AFFC Alayne II. The second one seems to concern an unpublished chapter or chapters that GRRM moved to TWOW. Given it's been twenty years since he wrote this outline, this raises the question: does he still intend to follow this note? Assuming he does, there are some things we can extrapolate and speculate on:

Sansa will not lose herself into the Alayne persona, and is soon heading North to reclaim her identity and Winterfell/the region for House Stark.

The tourney of winged knights is mentioned in the TWOW Alayne I preview from 2015, so this indicates GRRM had the idea for it for at least a decade prior.

Interpretation of the line regarding Robert Arryn is dependant on the reading. If it's *woos it might refer to Robert's infatuation with Alayne, which we've seen in Sansa's last published chapter, AFFC Alayne II, and in the TWOW Alayne I preview from 2015. If it's *weds... the most straightforward reading would be that Robert marries someone, even potentially Alayne/Sansa. Considering Petyr's plans for rulership of the Vale which he reveals in AFFC Alayne II, both scenarios seem surprising.

News from White Harbor most likely refers to news of Ramsay's wedding to Arya Stark. There's no telling whether that includes the crucial detail that the bride is truthfully Jeyne Poole. Another option could be news of the mutiny at Castle Black and some kind of update on Jon, whether that's his death, his speculated resurrection or confusing reports about both and whether he was ever dead at all. Of course, the news could be a mix and match of all of this, too. Any of these options could be the catalyst for Sansa going North.

The strikethrough could indicate these ideas were either moved elsewhere or dropped entirely. Or perhaps GRRM returned to this page a second time and was denotting progress by crossing out passsages he'd since written/included in drafts?

Finally, kill the mouse either indicates that Sansa herself will kill Ser Shadrich or that his death will be featured in a Sansa POV chapter.

I admit I am not super knowledgeable when it comes to GRRM's interviews or any information outside the published novels, so if you're aware of anything that's been revealed in the past that might shed light on this outline, please share.

#sansa stark #asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #ssm #ssm originals #topic: speculation #tbc: reclaiming her identity as sansa stark #tbc: shadrich's quest to ransom sansa #tbc: house stark rule and the northern succession #quotes by grrm

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morallyinept · 3 months

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A full transcribe of OBERYN MARTELL'S dialogue/lines from the TV show GAME OF THRONES.

Includes full dialogue, and dialogue from any deleted/additional scenes available.

I've created this as a point of reference when writing for Pedro's characters, and I hope you find it useful. Even if you just want to read the dialogue. 🖤

FULL MASTERLIST OF PEDRO CHARACTERS DIALOGUE

☝🏻Dialogue has been fully transcribed by myself using reference to original scripts (if available), audio subtitles and using my own two ears. Therefore, mistakes can be made, however I have tried to be as fully accurate as I can. If you spot an obvious mistake, please kindly let me know. Where audio is not clear, I have marked with *inaudible* Scenes are separated for ease of reference.

FULL SCRIPT DIALOGUE: (ALL EPISODES - OBERYN WAS IN 7 EPISODES IN SEASON 4)

EP 1 S4 TWO SWORDS

Look at this one. How lovely is she?

They like them pale in the capital. Shows they don’t work the fields.

Do I frighten you?

You like?

You’re a bit of mischief, aren’t you? I think she likes you.

You’re not timid, are you?

Do you like women?

The two girls can leave. You stay.

Everyone who works for Littlefinger is on offer. Take off your clothes. We’ll be here a while.

I’m a prince, boy. Have you ever been with a prince?

Take off your clothes.

My way.

__________________

Forgive me for staring, I… I don’t see many Lannisters where I’m from.

We don’t like the smell.

Hm! You know why all the world hates a Lannister? You think your gold and your lions and your gold lions make you better than everyone. Can I tell you a secret? You’re not a golden lion. You’re just a pink little man who’s far too slow on the draw.

Long sword is a bad option in close quarters. When I pull my blade your friend starts bleeding quite a lot, I’m afraid. So many veins in the wrist. He’ll live if you get him help straight away. So… decisions.

Apologies, my love.

Ellaria Sand, my paramour. The King’s own Uncle Imp. Tyrion, son of Tywin Lannister.

And what are you? His hired killer?

How did that come to pass?

We’ll need a few more girls, yes?

You don’t partake?

__________________

Seems I visited the Lannister brothel by mistake.

Even Dornishmen.

Let us speak truth here. Joffrey is insulted. I am only the second son after all.

I was invited to the royal wedding.

The last time I was in the capital was many years ago. Another wedding. My sister, Elia and Rhaegar Targaryen, the last dragon. My sister loved him. She bore his children. Spoiled them, rocked them, fed them at her own breast. Elia wouldn’t let the wet nurse touch them. And beautiful, noble Rhaegar Targaryen… left her for another woman. That started a war and the war ended right here… when your father’s army took the city.

They butchered those children. My nephew and niece. Carved them up and wrapped them in Lannister cloaks. And my sister. You know what they did to her? I’m asking you a question.

Hm! So have I. The one I keep hearing is that Gregor Clegane, The Mountain, raped Elia and split her in half with his great sword.

If The Mountain killed my sister, your father gave the order. Tell your father I’m here. And tell him the Lannisters aren’t the only ones who pay their debts.

__________________

EP 2 S4 THE LION AND THE ROSE

Hello.

Not you.

__________________

Your Grace, Lord Tywin.

I don’t believe you have met Ellaria. This is the Lord Hand, Tywin Lannister and Cersei Lannister, the Queen Regent. I suppose it is former Queen Regent now. Lord Hand and Lady Cersei, Ellaria Sand.

Bastards are born of passion, aren’t they? We don’t despise them in Dorne.

I expect it is a relief, Lady Cersei, giving up your regal responsibilities. Wearing the crown for so many years must have left your neck a bit crooked.

They call it the rich man’s disease. A wonder you don’t have it.

People everywhere have their differences. In some places the highborn frown upon those of low birth. In other places, the rape and murder of women and children is considered distasteful. What a fortunate thing for you, former Queen Regent, that your daughter Myrcella has been sent to live in the latter sort of place.

__________________

EP 3 S4 BREAKER OF CHAINS

You’re greedy.

You’re calling my beauty an acquired taste?

Your loss.

Does that surprise you?

Then everyone is missing half the world’s pleasure. The Gods made that and it delights me. The Gods made this and it delights me. When it comes to war, I fight for Dorne. When it comes to love, I don’t choose sides.

What are you, 25?

Someday, if you’re lucky, you will wake up and realise you are old. That pretty ass of yours will sag. Your belly will grow soft and your back will ache in the night and grey hairs will sprout from your ears. No-one will want you anymore. Make sure you’ve fucked your fill before that day.

They will all have to line up behind you.

Lord Tywin.

Would you like to sit?

Some wine?

I’m sorry about your grandson.

I don’t believe that a child is responsible for the sins of his father. Or his grandfather. An awful way to die.

Are you interrogating me, Lord Tywin?

Some believe the sky is blue because we live inside the eye of a blue-eyed giant. The king was poisoned.

I did. This is why I know.

Rather suspicious. Why haven’t you thrown me in a dungeon?

You think we conspired together?

The death of my sister.

She was raped and murdered by The Mountain. The Mountain follows your orders. Of course I blame you.

You are unarmed and unguarded because you know me better than that. I am a man of reason. If I cut your throat today, I will be drawn and quartered tomorrow.

So you deny involvement in Elia’s murder?

I would like to speak with The Mountain.

He might not enjoy it as much as he thinks he would.

But you want something in return.

Why?

Well, you made the Tyrell girl a queen. Asking me to judge at your son’s trial isn’t quite as tempting.

I never realised you had such respect for Drone, Lord Tywin.

You’re saying you need us? That must be hard for you to admit.

__________________

EP 5 S4 FIRST OF HIS NAME

Your Grace.

A poem, actually.

I couldn’t very well refuse a royal escort.

Not a very good one.

For one of my daughters.

Eight.

The fifth is difficult. I named her after my sister, Elia.

Yes. But I can’t say it without turning sad. And after I turn sad, I grow angry.

Which joke is that?

We can avenge them.

You really believe Tyrion murdered your son?

We will have a trial and we will learn the truth.

The last time I saw her she was swimming with two of my girls in the Water Gardens. Laughing in the sun.

You have my word. We don’t hurt little girls in Dorne.

Anything at all.

I will have it sailed down to Sunspear for her.

__________________

EP 6 S4 THE LAWS AND GODS OF MEN

These meetings aren’t always going to be this early, are they? I was up late last night. So, does this mean I am a master of something now? Coins, ships?

Lord Varys is right. I have been to Essos and seen the Unsullied first-hand. They are very impressive on the battlefield. Less so in the bedroom.

__________________

Lord Varys.

And yet everyone does.

Five years.

‘Tis a big and beautiful world. Most of us live and die in the same corner where we were born and never get to see any of it. I don’t want to be most of us.

You are from Essos. Where? Lys? I have an ear for accents.

I have an ear for that as well.

How did you get here?

One you don’t like telling people.

My paramour Ellaria, she would find you very interesting. You should come to the brothel and meet her. We brought our own wine, not the swill they serve here. We have some lovely boys on retainer, but… You did like boys before?

Really. Girls? Hmm. I hope you won’t be offended when I say I never would have guessed.

What then?

Everybody is interested in something.

Such as?

__________________

I think you have made your point, Grand Maester. You have a lot of poison in your store.

Tyrion said “and you know the debt is paid.” What debt?

__________________

How could you possibly know all this? Why would he reveal such plans to his wife’s maid?

And did you?

Fuck him like it was his last night in this world?

__________________

EP 7 S4 MOCKINGBIRD

I did spend some time with an absolutely stunning blonde the other day.

Your sister.

Cersei approached me. We spoke a great deal about her daughter. How worried your sister is about her. She was trying very hard to pretend she had not come to sway me against you. I think she may have even believed it herself.

It was difficult for her to hide her true intentions. It is rare to meet a Lannister who shares my enthusiasm for dead Lannisters. She desperately wants to see you killed.

Yes, I know. We met, you and I. Many years ago.

Unlikely. You had just been born. Our father brought me and my sister Elia with him on a visit to Casterly Rock. My first time away from Dorne. I didn’t like anything about the Rock. Not the food, not the weather, not your accents. Nothing. But the biggest disappointment… you.

The whole way from Dorne, all anyone talked about was the monster that had been born to Tywin Lannister. A head twice the size of his body, a tail between his legs, claws, one red eye, the privates of both a girl and a boy.

When we met your sister, she promised she would show you to us. Every day we would ask. Every day she would say “soon.” Then, she and your brother took us to your nursery and… she unveiled the freak. Your head was a bit large. Your arms and legs were a bit small, but no claw. No red eye. No tail between your legs. Just a tiny, pink cock. We didn't try to hide our disappointment. “That’s not a monster,” I told Cersei. “That’s just a baby.” And she said, “he killed my mother.” And she pinched your little cock so hard, I thought she might pull it off, until your brother made her stop. “It doesn’t matter,” she told us. “Everyone says he will die soon. I hope they are right. He should not have lived this long.”

And what about what I want? Justice, for my sister and her children.

I disagree. I’ve come to the perfect place. I want to bring those who have wronged me to justice. And all those who have wronged me are right here. I will begin with Ser Gregor Clegane, who killed my sister’s children and then raped her with their blood still on his hands before killing her, too.

I will be your champion.

__________________

EP 8 S4 THE MOUNTAIN AND THE VIPER

I like to move around.

You learn this during your years in the fighting pits? I always drink before a fight.

Today is not the day I die.

I’m going to kill that.

Size does not matter when you’re flat on your back.

Never.

__________________

Have they told you who I am?

I am the brother of Elia Martell. Do you know why I have come all the way to this stinking shit-pile of a city? For you.

I am going to hear you confess before you die. You raped my sister. You murdered her. You killed her children. Say it now and we can make this quick.

Say it. You raped her. You murdered her!

You killed her children.

You raped her! You murdered her! You killed her children!

You raped her! You murdered her!

You killed her children!

Wait. Are you dying? No, no, no... You can't die yet. You haven’t confessed.

Say it. Say her name. Elia Martell. You raped her. You killed her children. Elia Martell. Who gave you the order? Who gave you the order?!

Say her name! You raped her! You murdered her! You killed her children! Say it! Say her name! Say it!

__________________

FULL MASTERLIST OF PEDRO CHARACTERS DIALOGUE

#pedro pascal #oberyn martell #pedro pascal characters #oberyn martell game of thrones #PPCU #game of thrones #oberyn martell dialogue

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