Tumgik
#anti Sansan
catofoldstones · 9 months
Text
Sansa Stark whenever the psycho bitch who killed her father or the next top contenders for Westeros’ most traumatised unaware pedophiles try to info dump & project their secrets/plans/opinions on her
Tumblr media
585 notes · View notes
greylittlebird · 10 months
Text
I think it’s so funny how people who call Jonsa a “crackship” will make arguments that apply better for Jonsa for other ships.
They’ll theorize that the foreshadowing of Sansa marrying a Targaryen is about Young Griff when it makes much more sense for the Targaryen Sansa is to be marry to be Jon who she actually has a history and parallels with. She is going from pawn to player, the person she ends up with will be someone she would plausibly choose for love not yet another stranger she is handed off to. Most likely Young Griff is pretending to be a Targaryen contrasting Jon who is pretending to not be a Targaryen - he’s a false flag for the later Jon Targaryen reveal so if you think Sansa is going to marry The Secret Targaryen (which there is heavy foreshadowing and parallels for) then that is Jon.
They’ll say Sansa should end up with one of the pedophiles who violently abused her as a child (most often The Hound) to overcome her flaw of overlooking and judging others based on what others tell her about them, but that doesn’t apply to The Hound because she was afraid of him because of his actions not his scars or his status or because others told her to be in fact she disagrees with Joffrey her first chapter when he says The Hound was who she was afraid of. Sansa was only afraid of him after he started scaring her on purpose. The Hound is a pedophilic serial killer who abused her, Sansa’s only misjudgment of him is that she romanticizes him as she does all of her abusers at various points because Sansa’s go-to stress and trauma response is Fawning, that is consistent in her character it doesn’t mean she is “in love with” her abusers.
Jon is someone brave and gentle and strong, a true knight, someone who wants to protect and save others, all the things Sansa values and wants but Sansa overlooked him when she was younger because of taught biases. Jonsa would show that character development of Sansa learning to see who people truly are not just what she is told about them and how they appear. The Hound is none of those things, he’s a sympathetic minor villain whose role is to be a negative example to Sansa and Arya of who they don’t want to let pain and trauma and grief turn them into. Sansa’s compassion towards him shows both her kindness as a character, showing us that she isn’t letting trauma turn her cruel like he did, and some of it is also that trauma-bonding we see her do consistently because she is still without power - that will likely change when she is away from abusive control.
Or using any wolf and snow imagery in Dany’s chapters to support Jonerice when those are all with negative, ominous connotations (and Jon’s dragon symbolism is because he is a Targaryen, he doesn’t need Dany for that lol). Sansa is the one who is foreshadowed to go back North and be “stronger” there.
You don’t have to believe in or like Jonsa but to pretend it’s uniquely “crack” compared to other ship theories is pure bias. There is a lot of evidence for Jonsa and Jonsas put a lot of thought and effort into meta that doesn’t deserve to be diminished and belittled.
220 notes · View notes
esther-dot · 4 months
Note
i'm a sansa stan first and foremost, and i tried to ship s@nsan so hard lmaooo but when they start saying shit like "sansa has wet dreams about the hound" and "sansa actually likes older men", argh, i just can't. do. that. i know george said something about playing with it in the books, but i also think that he wanted to raise a few questions with the relationship, one of them being "who protects sansa from her protector?". like, there's TRAUMA in there. it's funny that they accuse jonsas of using sansa as a self-insert bc i don't know if you ever read a s@nsan fic or saw the fanarts, but they REALLY wanna bang that man 😭
(about this ask)
Nothing in the fandom horrifies me as much as Sansan. I’ve had nice Sansans come into my inbox, so I do distinguish between my feelings about the ship and the shippers, but I hate the reinterpretation of the Hound because it minimizes what he did/tried to do to Sansa. Instead of the later scenes where Sansa thinks of him being about her processing the trauma of his assault, suddenly, they become a gross villain whitewashing, victim-blamey, “actually, she wanted it.”
Tumblr media
I once even highlighted that whole "who will protect us from the guards" idea you mention because I think it was meant to emphasize what a travesty the Hound’s assault was:
Tumblr media
(link)
This isn’t a romance, this is a pattern. The Hound saves her than tries to rape her, Tyrion is kind to her then agrees to marry her, a child, a prisoner of his family, and LF rescues her but then starts to sexually molest her. All the same, in each of these instances, Sansa is grateful, she thinks kindly of them, and I think that says a lot about Sansa that you completely miss if you romanticize it and pretend that the Hound is someone, something to her, that he isn’t. I also talk about the whole cloak thing in that post too because I think the more contextualized reading is the one we’re meant to adopt.
When I did take a look at the meta, I was so creeped out by the nature of it and the art. Although, I want to give credit where it’s due. Apparently they were some of the first people to start taking Sansa seriously and created the reading of Sansa becoming a political factor, so they did change the fandom’s perception of Sansa in a good way. But imo their love of the Hound causes an imbalance in how they read their scenes. The point isn't that the Hound wouldn't have hurt Sansa, the point was that he very well might have but Sansa's actions stopped him which ties into a much bigger idea and important aspect of Sansa's story:
Even after the Hound assaults Sansa, later, she thinks of how terrifying the fire was, as in, even then, she is able to empathize with him, the man who held a knife to her throat and threatened to kill her. It’s laughable to suggest a man who mocked her relentlessly for who she was is capable of the same consideration. In fact, it is in a state of terror that the Hound attempts to rape Sansa and his fans use that to excuse his actions, and yet, while he is assaulting her, Sansa sings of mercy, gently touches his cheek. It’s almost like the very obvious interpretation, that the way to create a better world is Sansa’s method— not his— is what Martin expected people to understand, and his surprise people have turned it into something else altogether is genuine. (link)
As for Martin admitting he "played" with it, here's a clip. It's very short, and he's expressing surprise that his female readers like villains of which the Hound is one, and I think you can tell by his facial expression that the idea of the Hound and Sansa as a couple, is absolutely not where he ever intended to take things, not what he meant when he said he played with it. There are countless old monster movies with the monster being fascinated with a young girl or beautiful woman which humanizes him/shows a soft side. That's similar to Beauty and the Beast, the girl is what allows the monster to become human again, but in these variations, it isn't a romance. You can play with/reference tropes and ideas without it actually being a direct reiteration of the original story.
Anyway, filter and block and curate your fandom experience! 😅
69 notes · View notes
agentrouka-blog · 8 months
Note
Ngl I don’t know what to make of Sandor clegane saying “one day I'll have a song from you, whether you will it or no” — and Sansa saying “I’ll sing it for you gladly”. Like….singing is so clearly associated with s3x, and in her chapters specifically.
It pretty well foreshadows the scene during the Battle of the Blackwater.
Sandor is clearly using the song as a sexually charged, threatening metaphor here - and does it again in his attempted sexual assault with a knife at her throat.
Sansa doesn't catch this implication. She is twelve and grew up sheltered, she promises a song. And she represses his vicious implied meaning again when he uses it the second time. She twists his darkly cynical, cruel demand for a "song" into a spiritual self-defense. An actual song. Gentle Mother, font of mercy. It defeats him. It saves her. He cries with shameful despair and leaves, further atrocity avoided.
Sansa rewrites the traumatic experience of narrowly averted rape, the "kiss" of the blade, into a fictional kiss. It's less horrific, easier to bear. A lie to cover the true extend of the horror. He asked for a "song", he "kissed" her.
This isn't foreshadowing for some romantic entanglement at a later point. This is foreshadowing a scene that has already played out for us.
Whoever Sansa will end up freely singing for (or sharing a metaphorical "song" with) in the future, it's not this guy.
120 notes · View notes
I've seen a lot of shippers argue that Sansa should end with the Hound because she's a privileged pretty princess and needs to fuck an ugly lowborn pedophile to unlearn classism 🙄 Ignoring the fact they're treating wokeness like a STD, I find it pretty interesting that I never saw them use this argument to justify why Sansa should end with Podrick, who is around her age, is as lowborn as Sandor and never tried to rape her at knifepoint 🙄
361 notes · View notes
atopvisenyashill · 3 months
Note
sansa will end up with sandor 😋
if sansa ends with the 29 year old man who nearly raped her when she was 12, you're not gonna have to worry about me throwing tomatoes at george because arya and jon will simply run him through babeeeee
48 notes · View notes
sweet-dawn · 8 months
Text
Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media
57 notes · View notes
alaynasansa · 1 year
Text
Thinking back about how Marillion's attempt to rape her triggered Sansa's repressed trauma and she had nightmares about Tirion and Sendor assaulting her and she waked up with the dog and wished for Lady instead
And yet some fans still think this is positive foreshadowing for their toxic ships
133 notes · View notes
aegor-bamfsteel · 1 year
Note
"All?" he mocked. "Tell me, little bird, what kind of god makes a monster like the Imp, or a halfwit like Lady Tanda's daughter? If there are gods, they made sheep so wolves could eat mutton, and they made the weak for the strong to play with."- Sansa(ACOK IV). How on earth Hound considered a hero?
If I remember correctly, that’s not one of the quotes people use when talking about how heroic the Hound is (although tbh he doesn’t say many positive things). Sansa a few chapters later shows him (politely, fearfully) where he can shove his nihilistic strongman philosophy:
She had forgotten the other verses. When her voice trailed off, she feared he might kill her, but after a moment the Hound took the blade from her throat, never speaking.
Some instinct made her lift her hand and cup his cheek with her fingers. The room was too dark for her to see him, but she could feel the stickiness of the blood, and a wetness that was not blood. "Little bird," he said once more, hisvoice raw and harsh as steel on stone. Then he rose from the bed. Sansa heard cloth ripping, followed by the softer sound of retreating footsteps.When she crawled out of bed, long moments later, she was alone. She found his cloak on the floor, twisted up tight, the white wool stained by blood and fire. —ACOK Sansa VII
So let’s get this straight: strong bitter Hound who says the weak are there to serve the strong holds a knife to a girl’s throat for a song…and she sings for mercy, holds his face, and he’s so shamed by what he was going to do he leaves her alone to never see her again. Hound has been mocking Sansa’s “soft” “bird” songs since she met him, and she, afraid for her life, proves to him and everyone reading that yes, those “weak” qualities are stronger than hatred and brute force. This is actually one of the best pieces of evidence that GRRM isn’t grimdark…not that a grown man broke into a girl’s bedroom and threatened her with a knife to sing (that’s sadly expected), but that girl, in a “voice that sounded small and tremulous to her own ears”, sang about mercy and peace…and she wins, he doesn’t hurt her anymore. It’s not so much Beauty and the Beast as it is Snow White and the Huntsman, in which Snow’s innocence means the Huntsman can’t bring himself to kill her; except Sansa singing and putting a hand on his face takes a more active role. She asked the Mother earlier to ease the rage inside him, and she (or She?) did.
No, the Hound isn’t a hero, but more importantly, his entire mindset in that quote is wrong. And Sansa—one of the series’ main heroes—shows us in the same book why. I can’t imagine reading Sansa’s Blackwater chapters and how she represents a core theme of the novels—that compassion, peace, and mercy are actually stronger than hatred, war, and revenge—and not understand she’s going to be one of Westeros’ future leaders by the end.
144 notes · View notes
sansacule · 7 months
Text
Scrolling through my dash, muttering a 'kill yourself' at every Sansan post that shows up.
32 notes · View notes
catofoldstones · 16 days
Text
The Ashford Theory and my patience running thin
Welcome, welcome my guys, gals and non-binary pals, to another scream into the void that the Ashford theory is, in fact, very jonsa
On to the arguments!
1. The suitor has to have the correct last name, not family, look at Joffrey Baratheon, you stupid jonsa
Hypothesis - the suitor has to have the corresponding name, not family, and because Jon is a Snow he’s out of the running. The other prong is fAegon who is actually a Blackfyre and not Targeryen, who can also be the suitor.
Thesis - Joffrey is the only other suitor to have a different name. Joffrey and Jon have also been set up as foils from the start of AGOT. Joffrey is a bastard masquerading as the rightful king and Jon is the rightful king (thrice crowned) masquerading as a bastard. It makes sense that they are the only two suitors to have the wrong name as this establishes them as inverses in another way. The last suitor being the foil of the horrible first suitor thereby showing character growth, and plot progression and resolution? Count me in.
As for Young Griff being a Blackfyre, here’s a meta or two, maybe even an argument, for him being the real Aegon VI Targaryen but take my personal fav evidences of Tyrion figuring out that Young Griff is Aegon VI Targaryen and then, Varys literally telling a dying Kevan Lannister about the true Targaryen prince and why would you lie to a dying man? How does that serve your purpose?
This is literally grrm telling us who Young Griff actually is, though this does not count him I out of the contenders, it reduces the weight of him being the fifth suitor, due to story arcs and well, his doomed fate.
Conclusion - While Aegon VI is a strong contender, there is much, much more literary weight and nuance with Jon being the Targaryen suitor.
2. Lady Ashford was not crowned the Queen of Love and Beauty by any champion!!! Take that jonsas
Hypothesis - tQoLaB is a title analogous to a betrothal/love interest
Thesis - there have been no allusions to the title of tQoLaB while trying to foreshadow a relationship, except for a really, really bad one (r + l) that plunged the whole realm into a civil war and we should not take that as a good sign
Conclusion - we’re grasping at straws here besties
3. Dunk disrupted the Ashford Tourney, therefore Sxndxr will disrupt Sansa’s prospects and other things
Hypothesis - Dunk & Sxndxr are are analogous and since there was no conclusion to the Tourney we can safely assume that it’s sxnsxn foreshadowing
Thesis - Brienne is the Dunk asoiaf corollary, not Sxndxr. Brienne is theorized to be Dunk’s descendant. She even has her shield painted like Dunk’s, apart from their striking character parallels and being a true foil to all the other knights in the story. Mr. Gravedigger is just tall :/
“Your door reminded me of an old shield I once saw in my father’s armory.”
Brienne II, AFFC
Brienne has Dunk’s shield in her family home possibly because she’s a descendant of Dunk but then goes ahead and gets her shield painted exactly like this one
“[The painted shield] was more a picture than a proper coat of arms, and the sight of it took her back through the long years, to the cool dark of her father’s armory. She remembered how she’d run her fingertips across the cracked and fading paint, over the green leaves of the tree, and along the path of the falling star.”
Brienne II, AFFC
Secondly, just because the tourney did not have a (satisfactory) conclusion does not mean that the tourney did not exist to serve a purpose. I doubt grrm would likely give out his whole story as early as 1998.
Conclusion - BRIENSA 4eva!!!!!
4. Valarr Targaryen died of a sickness and Aegon VI is doomed to die and is connected to a sickness, are you looking at the nerves popping out of my thick, brainy skull
Thesis - the fifth suitor is 100% Aegon and there’s no one else
Hypothesis - there is a Targaryen.. currently dead.. in the books… (thnk u @istumpysk for ur galaxy brain). The plague in the story serves to connects Aegon more to Dany than to a northern girl he doesn’t know about and might not like since she’s a Stark and his mother is Elia Martell.
Conclusion - jonsa
5. This is all a coincidence & u jonsas are reaching as always
Hypothesis - though george is known to tie every deep end, every crack theory, even farfetched ones that the readers have not caught, this one thing completely skipped his notice because exceptions are always there
Thesis - yes, because this is acotar & not asoiaf and he’s not grrm, i am
Conclusion - JONSAAAAAAAAAAAA
78 notes · View notes
greylittlebird · 11 months
Text
Arya Stans who insist Sansa is a “bully” and a “villain” for calling her sister names in arguments and also ship Sansa with a grown man who called her stupid, weak, victim blamed her, belittled her religion and interests, inappropriately commented on her body when she was already under constant threat of SA, put a knife to her throat and threatened to end her “little life” at age 12, etc. are disgusting hypocrites. You cannot pretend you care about vErBaL AbuSe and bUlLyINg when you sexualize it being done to Sansa from an adult.
Sansa childishly saying “I wish you died instead of my pet!” (who was just traumatically killed and no adult around her was even trying to help Sansa process it) is sooo evil and abusive but an adult serial killer who murdered her sister’s friend putting a knife to Sansa’s throat in a very REAL death threat is “her sexual awakening” according to them. That’s fucking vile. I hate this fandom.
163 notes · View notes
esther-dot · 2 months
Note
Fans were squeaked out by Arya(11) getting molested by Raff and cheered her when she killed him. They were angry when Jorah misbehaved with Dany(14-15) and were applauding her when she slapped him. But these fans will suddenly become blind to Sansa(11-12) abuse by grown up men and romanticised the relationship. Infact they get angry why Sansa didn't love pedos and give them what they wanted. Some fans even notice that book Dany-Drogo is not healthy yet they ship Sansan.
Your observation makes it sound like fans believe condemning sexual assault is conditional on the girl being assaulted.
Tumblr media
Far be it from me to say anything nice about Jorah, but I have to say, in comparison to how the Hound interacts with Sansa, he’s written as far less threatening. Not that he isn’t a creep, but if we're talking abusive POS here, I have no idea why he's more easily identifiable than the Hound? The man who constantly intidimates, insults, and threatens Sansa? We specifically mention the assault when talking about the Hound, but from the get go, he talks about how he kills women and children, and he places his sword to Sansa's neck...he's abhorrent all the way through.
I know his fans believe he wouldn't act on any of it, I've seen them talk about him as a dog that's all bark no bite, but in their last interaction, he did. He intended to rape her, so I think there's an underlying disregard for Sansa's position, the terror of her experience in KL, that even those who help her threaten her, that the fans keep minimizing. We are meant to worry for her, not defend her abusers. We're meant to be outraged that the people who should protect her, fail her. Horrifying that the fandom simply won’t do it.
52 notes · View notes
agentrouka-blog · 7 months
Note
I am less confident of jon/sansa happening and more confident of sansa/tyrion and sansa/sandor NEVER happening. And that is saying something lol
Same. And I am very very confident about Jonsa. 😁
38 notes · View notes
elegantwoes · 1 year
Text
Here is your daily reminder that when a canine shipper begged George RR Martin to cast someone young for Cujo so that his scenes with Sansa stayed “romantic” instead of creepy, he responded by casting a middle aged man for him. Meaning GRRM was more than happy with the general audience perceiving this so called “endgame ship” as creepy.
103 notes · View notes
asoiastarks · 7 months
Text
guys reblogging more jonsa scared off some of the sansans following me i’m actually so happy rn
15 notes · View notes