Imagine an elf is given a job to do at a human institution. The humans think elves don’t need bathroom breaks, since they know they can hold it for days, but this elf has been traveling to reach their job, and has already been holding it to the point they are in pain. They ask for a break, but their job is important and time sensitive, so they admit they can still hold it when asked. After a full day of work, the elf tries to reach the bathroom in time, but they were never told where it is.
can we give Rhysand this same treatment?
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“elain wasn’t set up to be the mc in acotar5 because she wasn’t enough in acosf”
i’ve seen a lot of gwynriels saying this and i think it’s quite interesting because they think gwyn is going to be the next mc because of her page time. gwyn was in the book a lot and that made sense with nesta’s storyline. same goes for azriel but i think we all know he’s going to have a pov in the next book.
now according to this logic this means that elain would have to be in acotar5 a lot. azriel and gwyn are both best friends to nesta so what role would elain play in acotar5 to set up her book? why would elain get massive screentime in a gwynriel book? gwyn doesn’t know elain and things between azriel and her are awkward as hell, i mean he’s literally ordered to stay away. so where does elain fit into this? how would elain be set up more in a gwynriel book than a nessian book?
as for elucien, literally HOW will elucien be set up if azriel and gwyn are the mcs? like i said gwyn doesn’t even know elain or lucien. she doesn’t know about their history. it would be very weird to see gwyn comment on a relationship she knows absolutely nothing about. now for azriel, HOW is azriel going to comment positively or even neutrally on eluciens relationship when we know he’s jealous and can’t stand the bond between them? he literally tries to avoid them together at all cost.
so yeah this whole comment is bullsh*t. we all know elain (and lucien too btw) would barely be present in a gwynriel book (a whole book about illyrian conflict apparently?) because it would be messy as hell with azriel’s feelings for elain while also having to fall in love with gwyn (?) and where does lucien come in all this? because u know he needs a lot of screentime to be the next mc 🤣
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Can we acknowledge the fact that in the methods to “help” Nesta the inner circle and Feyre didn’t think it was a good idea to offer her a therapist? Like for fucks sake, the girl is experiencing trauma from her life and the war and you think the best idea is to send her to a war camp?
And also what’s even worse about them making the decision for Nesta is the fact that she never had the ability to choose throughout most of her life. Like how her mother literally groomed her to sell her off into a marriage. (Trigger warring SA) And when she was assaulted by Thomas to which he tried to make her feel like she couldn’t say no to him. Her freedom to choose what she wanted has always been violated by the people around her. And it’s even worse knowing the the same people who claim to care about her are doing the same things as her past abusers did.
Throughout the entire series no one acknowledged the fact that nesta is a victim, instead they treated her like some burden they needed to fix. And for Rhys to have the audacity to judge her after all the shit he’s done is so baffling to me. She did some bad things yeah, but she takes accountability for her actions. Rhys has done far much worse and yet here he still is being seen as some fucking saint.
And don’t even get me started on Cassian who claims to care about her yet always defends Rhys when he’s attacking her. It’s like he’s Rhys’ bitch. You’re her fucking mate, do something about the way she’s being treated. Instead he agrees with everything making her feel like shit. I’ve experienced gaslighting before and it’s unfortunate to see that it’s what he’s doing to her. He’s making her feel guilty for everything, while she’s drowning in her sorrows.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, Acosf wasn’t a book about self healing. It was a book about a victim being torn down and forced to change who she was in order to be accepted. This is why it’s so hard to find badass female characters in books who are unapologetically nasty to the people around them. Quite frankly I wanted nesta to stay being the bitch that she originally was - just wanted more depth to it. And other authors have done it so nice before. Like Zoya from the Shadow and Bone series. She’s bitter and an absolute bitch and in the end still stays the way she is, which I love about her.
It’s just makes me so angry looking at books and seeing how much females that aren’t considered kind or nice are put down. Not just in the book but also by the fans. Why does a female character need to be “good” or a “hero” for her to be liked? Why is it when a male character acts like an absolute asshole for no remorse for his actions people eat that up. But when it’s a female it’s suddenly looked down upon. I’m so mad with how Nesta ended up at the end of the book. I’m so tired of these women always being put down and not accepted for who they are. The only time they are accepted is when they “change”.
Ngl I just wanted Nesta to be this anti hero throughout the series. I wanted her to still be horrible but I also wanted explanations for why she did the things she did. I wanted her to be that cruel and vicious person she was always meant to be. I honestly don’t even want her to be part of the inner circle. Why be with a group of people that have insulted you and threatened to kill you?
It’s just so interesting how people treat male characters vs female characters. I’m so tired of seeing my favorite female characters change because of these men.
Sorry for the rant! This got me so heated 😗
I didn’t know you could put this many characters in an ask.
i like this ask tho. For me, i agree. I love cassian but nonnie you are completely correct in saying he acts like Rhys’ bitch. Your also correct in saying ACOSF was not a book about healing. I think I’ve said this before on my blog but the moment I finished ACOSF I was so confused because it felt like I was reading Feyres story from the perspective of a side character. The book was so disappointing.
The cover should’ve been our first warning, her publishing company can eat my ass for that one.
Hate to the publishing company not the artist. I actually do like the cover but not for this series.
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Y'all acting as if Feysand actually HAD sex in the library when what really happened is that they flirted then Rhys winnowed away. Like that's it. Lmao
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im just gonnna say this: i have pretty much 0 faith in sjm.
yeah sure maybe while she was writing the first trilogy it seemed pretty obvious with how the series was gonna go. but after acosf and reading 800+ PAGES of her literally butchering nesta, cassian and rhys' characters, i just dont know if she cares anymore abt this series and is just trying to leech as much money as she can from the fans.
say what you want abt ships or whatever, you can't deny there were some serious inconsistencies and plot holes in the story. she kept reusing certain tropes and or complete ignored things that happen in canon in the past. sjm wanted to write adult fantasy but she didn't properly portray themes of that genre like dealing with trauma, mental illness, morality and politics etc. and just turned up the smut to like 5 million, and using the 'fuck' for every fifth word (same goes with crescent city which was another dumspter fire i don't even want to get into). all bc idk her agency probably told her that sex sell or whatever.
point is, it doesn't really matter at all what was written in the previous book or even what she said with her own mouth. she's just going to do whatever sells the most books. so given how a certain ship and character has become wildly popular in the fandom (to the point where some of yalls are going feral over it) im worried that sjm is gonna take the series into that direction 🤷♀️
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elain was definitely the biggest part of azriel’s pov.
if u split his bonus scene in 3 parts u have:
1. azriel’s scene with elain (+ rhys but it was about elain)
2. azriel’s scene with gwyn
3. azriel’s scene with clotho
now if u look at it, scene 1 is obviously elain centered, but scene 2 and scene 3 are both scenes that happen only because of elain and despite it being with different people, it still centers around her.
scene 2 we have azriel going to the training pit because of what happened with elain and rhys earlier.
He aimed for the training pit, giving in to the need to work off the temptation, the rage and frustration and writhing need.
so we know the only reason he has this scene with gwyn is because of elain. even during the quick training lesson he calls it a distraction because he’s still thinking about elain.
“Again,” he ordered, rubbing his hands against the cold, grateful for its bracing bite and the distraction of this impromptu lesson.
scene 3 we have azriel finding elain’s necklace returned. he’s clearly upset and doesn’t want to take it with him. again, the reason he has this scene with clotho is because elain returned the necklace. we then have a recycled line that was used in elain’s scene earlier too.
literally everything in his pov eventually circles back to elain. the 2 scenes that happen after elain’s and azriel’s scene are all because of something that elain did or has to do with elain. and in the end, because this necklace was for elain and bought with elain in mind, it will always come back to her. that isn’t something u can just forget.
also isn’t it kinda funny that if elain and azriel had kissed and rhys wouldn’t have noticed, azriel wouldn’t have that scene with gwyn or clotho. he wouldn’t have thought about gwyn at all (which i also find kinda sus btw) sorry but those 2 scenes are only there because of what happened between him and elain and in my opinion, that’s just a weak ship.
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short part II of this x
a brief summary just in case you don’t have time to read it: some people, as usual, act like azriel is in “lust” only with elain and i explain why that’s not true at all.
i keep seeing a lot of the same stuff already adressed in my previous post, so what i wanted to add is: let’s say that, for some reason, all the elriel build up pre acosf doesn’t exist and it is true that azriel doesn’t care for elain and he only feels physical attraction for her. first of all, isn’t that how nessian started too? (i’m referring to their bonus chapter) actually, wings and embers was even worse imo. he doesn’t like nesta’s personality, he thinks multiple times that she’s a bitch, yes there are also obviously some hints that he feels/will feel more for her but in that chapter he’s mostly lusting after her and that’s it.
but let’s make another example. again, let’s say azriel feels lust only. do people honesly think that an author would write a story (or in this case, a bonus chapter) in which two women are pitted against each other and one will be used just for sex only -and that’s the only reason to include her in said chapter, to highlight that what the man feels for her is nothing but pent up sexual frustration- and the other (she’s different, “she’s not like other girls” bla bla bla) will be the man’s true love. because that’s what gwynriel as a ship is (mostly) based on (that, or lightsingers/whatever else gwyn is hints twisted as romantic content) most of them (not all of them, i hope) acknowledge that, yes, there was something there bewteen elain and azriel, but it is just him lusting for her and after he realizes that she’s nothing but a means to an end to relieve his sexual frustration and/or they hook up he’ll move on to another girl, in this case gwyn.
let’s take a moment to let that sink in.
the year is freaking 2021, the author is a feminist ... but the romance is based on reducing one woman to sex only while the other one will be oh so different. imagine how tired we are. if you really can’t wrap your head around the fact your crack ship will never happen, for the love of god, stop.twisting.canon.facts or at least have the decency to keep elain out of your misognystic headcanons.
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Why do we insist on tagging gwynriel/elriel on anti posts? It's like trying to change someone's political opinion, it's not going to happen. The only reason you do it is to make yourself feel big, as if talking down to people on the internet makes you big and strong.
By all means share your theories with your friends. By all means defend yourself if someone comes at you.
But, I mean, come on. There's no reason to condescend just because you feel like you can. Be better humans.
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So I read acosf twice and I still don’t see any romance between Az and Gwyn. There’s no attraction between them which is needed in an adult fantasy series. The pov showed she was a lightsinger and the Elriel part of the pov was enough to say they are endgame. I just don’t see how Gwynriel is romantic because he laughed and snorted at her .
I'll tell you a funny story actually😅
So I pre-ordered ACOSF but unfortunately my copy didn't come before or even on the release date (As you might have seen on social media, many people received their pre-ordered copies way later after the release date) so before I got to read the book, I already saw some spoilers flying around on social media and the main thing I got from them was that Elriel was clearly "destroyed" and that Gwynriel is the new ship, Azriel is in love with Gwyn, etc.
Obviously, I was a bit upset as I liked Elriel from the start but I decided to see what would be my personal opinion on Gwynriel after reading ACOSF and the bonus chapters, and let me tell you, I was never more confused.
There's been no hints that either Gwyn or Azriel are attracted to eachother, no chemistry, no signs of a hidden mating bond. Nothing. So for me it's obvious that most of the fandom simply romanticised every little thing they could just to make a new ship and try to invalidate Elriel. (It's no secret that Elain is a widely hated character in the fandom so obviously many don't want her with Azriel who's a popular favourite)
I mean, do you guys remember how Emerie made a small appearance in ACOFAS and readers started shipping her with Cassian (due to their hatred for Nesta) or with Azriel (due to their hatred for Elain) when she didn't have any sort of romantic moments with either of them? It's the exact same.
The difference between all Elriel and Gwynriel interactions, is that most Elriel moments are romantically coded, meanwhile not a single Gwynriel moment was romantic.
They've blushed in eachother's presence which has romantic connotations
From the beginning, Elain was most comfortable in his presence
He's given her something he never let anyone else touch (Keep in mind that he's lived for 500yrs)
He literally put rocks in his snowballs out of fury for how Rhys basically ordered him to leave Elain alone
He knew he could've died going to Hybern's Camp but he didn't care, he just wanted Elain safe with them
He was the only person to realise that there was nothing wrong with Elain and that she was a seer. (Remember that Madja said that only a mate can sense if something is amiss👀)
When Elain gave him the powder for headaches, Feyre never heard him laugh so joyously before.
He then spent all his nights looking at said powder since then.
He's been confirmed to be an extremely private person, yet he himself initiates contact with Elain (volunteering to show her the garden, etc)
He was uncomfortable at the prospect of giving gifts for the Archeron sisters at the start but then we have him giving Elain a rose necklace (Not just any necklace, but a rose one, clearly showing that he thought about her likes)
Azriel has been shown to be self conscious about his hands, yet we have Elain who calls his hands beautiful. (Yes, Feyre wasn't sure if it was his siphons or hands but considering the context, I believe Elain meant his hands)
Azriel is known as this deadly fae male and we had a scene where Elain "did not balk from him". (Basically disputes the argument that she couldn’t handle his "darkness")
That's obviously not all of them as if I was to write every romantically coded Elriel scene, I'd probably write an essay😅
He doesn't even consider her more than a friend.
No hints that either of them have a romantic attraction towards the other.
When she was about to ask more questions, he interrupted her cause he didn't want to get into details, but with Elain he went onto talking about his wings. (He could've easily just given her a blunt, short answer but he didn't)
"You're the new ribbon" - Just as Gwyn was determined to cut the ribbon first, so too she wanted to wipe the smirk off Azriel's face due to her competitive side, so nothing romantic.
He's known her for 2yrs and never felt any weird sense of longing, etc. that mates have which disputes the "Gwynriel mate theory"
He literally gave her a necklace that he bought when he thought about Elain. It has a rose because it represents her. It's not "Gwyn's necklace"
His shadows danced around her breath, not her. This could hint at her being a lightsinger.
It's pretty obvious to me what SJM wrote as romantic and what she didn't, but people can ship what they want. At the end, one side of the "ship war" will be extremely disappointed and it's clear what one it'll be. (Hint, hint: The ship starts with a G😉)
Have a nice day🌹
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out of all the archeron sisters, unfortunately its nesta i see myself most in. but instead of praising her bc she “reminds me of me/i relate so much to her” i see her for what she truly is and do not wish to praise, encourage or romanticize nestas behavior. its okay to see yourself in nesta, but its not okay to think nestas behavior is okay, therefore that your behavior is okay too. its not. nesta and i share similar attitudes but the difference is that i see what is wrong with nesta and myself and i choose not to excuse or justify it. i want to be better than nesta ever will be. i want to be like feyre, bc truly feyre is the best of both sisters.
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i will never understand rhysand being able to forgive elain for all the shit feyre had to do alone as a child and not nesta. it’s just very weird to me. especially considering how i’m pretty sure feyre brought this up to him and his only answer was something along the lines of “well elain is elain.” what ?? do ?? you ?? mean ??
he literally held a grudge against nesta for three books straight and in the end never really gives an explanation as to why he did this with her and not elain. is it because nesta isn’t as openly kind as elain, or because (unlike everyone else) she doesn’t kiss his or feyre’s asses all the time? even after going in her head in acosf and seeing her trauma and grief and what she went through he still did not feel any sort of sympathy or forgiveness until the end and that was after he felt obligated to after she saved feyre and nyx.
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so i recently took a break from sjm books and read some other ya fantasies. and oh my gods the entire time i was so surprised by how good the writing was. then i went back to check something in acosf and all i was thinking was wow this reads like (bad) fanfiction.
I often feel the same way. It’s quite jarring. It’s down to the very technical aspects of her sentence structure; an overuse of sentence fragments and em dashes, repetitive language (literally the incarnate thing over and over again).
And then as you zoom out you notice the other things: sloppy exposition dumps, characters changing inorganically to serve weak plot points, lazy world building and themes that go nowhere.
The thing I enjoy the most about reading is the art, the construction of stories and the emotions. It’s not hyper-critical to watch a movie and admire the cinematography. So if a reader desires beautiful sentences and complex characters, I think it’s fair to point these things out.
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Margaret Atwood has said hulu has diversity clause in their contracts, which might make it interesting to see how the Court series gets cast. (Source: cheatsheet com/entertainment/tv/the-handmaids-tale-author-yelled-developments-show html/)
Atwood also praised the show for being more diverse than the book. She feels the show would be less visually interesting if all the characters were white. She said the diversity of the show reflects the modern United States. In addition, she noted Hulu has a diversity clause.
huh. not sure how i feel about that, bc i really want the show to be as shitty as possible to truly reflect the overall shittiness of the books.
then again, how diverse is the show of Handmaid's Tale vs the book? iirc (and it's been a while since i watched the show, so i am probably missing a ton, especially if more have been introduced in later seasons) we have a Black character who's pretty big in the show (Moira) as well as June's husband Luke and their biracial daughter, and a couple wlw (Moira and Ofglen off the top of my head), though we also have wlw who are killed (the woman Ofglen had an affair with, iirc? while Ofglen just--"just"--had to deal with FGM). does any of that reflect the book? it might tell us how diverse ac0tar would be.
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things abt amaran/tha that are stupid & will be changed in my rewrite #1
her background is as a fucking GENERAL, supposedly one of hybern’s best, but suddenly the king of hybern decides to send her to prythian as an emissary for diplomatic purposes and she beats the high lords through Deceiving Them With Her ~Feminine Wiles~ instead of just like,,, conquering them? one of her titles is “the never-fading flower” and she spends her time wearing dumbass anachronistic dresses instead of smth actually practical like armor. she dies in like less than one second after fey/re breaks the curse even though she’s supposedly powerful on her own & also just as trained in fighting (if not more so bc of disparities in age/experience) as tam/lin.
s//jm straight up cannot comprehend a woman being just legitimately better than a man at anything even remotely stereotypically masculine. i think merely the idea of an amarantha acting as a general, walking around in proper armor instead of dresses or those weird skintight “leathers” & with a sword, beating the high lords on the battlefield rather than through some weird trickery bullshit that has no precedent in what we know of her past would actually cause s/jm’s brain to collapse in on itself.
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back to post about f//eysand’s behaviour in the library because WHAT?!??
i’m convinced s//jm and her entire team NEVER understand the implications of what she writes cause why on earth would she write her oh so perfect protags to engage in any type of sexual behaviour in a safe space made for victims of sa.
it doesn’t even take a genius to understand the nuance of what’s going on here cause:
the way the library is set up in the novels, clotho has to grant access for anybody (regardless of status) to enter
this means clotho has trusted them enough to allow f//eysand into her and other women’s safe space
granting them access means clotho expects them to act with the utmost respect and dignity for both the space they are in and the people that are there
f//eysand continue to have sex (?? i can’t remember if they go all the way)
they’ve now broken clotho’s trust, disrespected the place they are in and the people there, as well as potentially exposed victims of sa to sexual behaviour without their consent
except nothing in the last point actually happens and s//jm just continues her novel as if nothing happened. as if this is completely fine. because apparently, s//jm’s #1 rule is that horny trumps all.
**p.s. there’s definitely more to this but i’m a dummy who can’t analyze and communicate properly
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Of the many things that went unresolved during ACOSF I think one that bothers me the most is that it was never acknowledged Cassian taking the blame for Rhysand's plan.
If u don't remember, in the Intervention when they told Nesta the ultimatum, she looked at Cassian and accused him of this being his idea and he immediately agreed (when the plan was Rhysand's)
Idk I thought it would have more development. Like maybe she was pissed one day and started cursing him and blaming him for being there and then puff someone idk maybe Azriel or even Riceman himself appeared and told her that he actually lied, that it had been his idea. And then later that day or later in the story she would question him in why did he lie or why did he let her blame him
Bla bla bla
Court of missed opportunities indeed
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S/jm’s writing style is the kind that makes me hyper-aware of her presence in the story. She always tells me what to think, rather than letting characters’ actions speak for themselves.
For that reason, it’s hard for me to me to really blame the characters that she wants me to hate because I don’t view their actions as their own. Meanwhile, the characters I know she loves (f/eysand) become increasingly unbearable.
And I know that authors decide everything on a literal level, but usually their decisions feel so organic that I don’t even notice. I think this has to do with s/jm’s tendency to tell rather than show (characterization is usually an exposition dump like the dinner scene in acomaf or the cabin confession).
And it sparks this reaction in me where I despise the characters she wants me to love and tolerate the characters she wants me to hate.
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MOST of e/riels : we don't hate Gwyn 😇
also them :
Plz wtf happens with this girl?
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"no one is hating on gwyn"
"we love gwyn"
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When the news about the ACOTAR casting gets released, you can bet it's going to be a MESS online when it comes out. I think the casting news probably won't be out until Late 2021 or Early 2022.
I'm not expecting casting news for a while but I do think it'll be the precedented amount of messiness especially for any POC who get the parts
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