#anti cielizzy | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

marshmallow-avalanche · 7 years

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I'll never get this obsession some people have with making every godamn pairing as fluffy and sweet as a marshmallow cloud.

Words like “problematic” or “unhealthy” or even “abusive” being thrown around like popcorn everytime a ship dares to step out the lines of your neat little box of acceptable fiction. And it is fine that you say all of these things, really. For most of the time they are absolutely correct. But the problem is that all this words come covered with accusatory tones and allegations that just make no sense, meant to hurt and shame the people making and consuming the entertaining piece that was made. Be it fanart, fanfic, headcanons or even just expressing their love for a ship. I just want to know at what moment did we start equating artistic freedom with “being an apologist”. And who decided which things are and are not okay to be written/drawn/spoken about? Art doesn’t follow your rules. Art follows NOBODY’S rules, and that’s what is great about it. And as far as I’m concerned nobody died and made you people “the supreme judges of all art forms in the world”. Art is free and inexcusable. Fantasy is what makes us free. No regulation, no rules, no dictatorship. You can make a utopia in there, or a post-war decaying world, you can make a surrealistic adventure or just write about your everyday person, you can make clouds heavy and rocks weightless and it breaks my heart everytime I see someone trying to dictate what someone can and cannot put their artistic effort into. If it’s problematic, if it’s terrible, ugly, harmful, devastating, unacceptable. Let it be. The fantasy world is where it belongs, it’s where it SHOULD be. Cause when it gets to this side, when it stops being a dream (or a nightmare) and turns into reality THEN it causes real damage. A painting of a gun is just a painting. The bullet from the gun that is pointed at your head when you walk at 3 AM in a dangerous neighbourhood and that will make a hole in your skull, that, that is the real danger. The painting didn’t cause the violence, the violence caused the painting. And we bring this to our fantasies, cause in there we can simulate. We can try to understand. We can deconstruct and construct again. We can look it from all the angles and perspectives we are denied in reality. And to deny fantasy’s ugliness is to deny reality’s nature. You don’t live in a perfect world, I know you’d like to, but you don’t. You can cover your eyes, you can cover your ears and cover your mouth. But the evil will be always there. And it will make it’s way to fantasy, cause fantasy is fabricated out of reality. Always was and always will be. And if you think you’re somewhat eradicating it by throwing all this insults and accusations at people that DO understand the distinction and the connection between these two worlds, you’re most likely just creating even more evil. Censorship is the real evil. Fantasy is not good, but it’s not evil either. It’s just what it is. So maybe you should take a deep breath and step down of your pedestal and take a look at the world. It is not perfect, but it makes fantasy perfect by being so.

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justanemailpigeon · 8 months

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Do problematic black butler fans forgets to put on their bio that they are a c0msh¡per/pr0sh¡per?? Because if i didn't have the tag bloqued i won't know that i followed or liked a post from a s3b4c3l/ci3lzzy shipper.. Bro we don't want to see how you like p3do/inc3st ships and i have a the dni+block thing on my bio.. so why you don't?? We could avoid so many things.. always the ones with best art has to be one of these kinds.

I also don't like the 4gn¡s0m4 ship

And don't you dare call me weird if you like p3d0ph¡l¡4 or inc3$t. I just don't want to see these things. If the anti's like me adds a dni+block warning on their bio.. SO DO YOU

#black butler #kuroshitsuji #anti sebaciel #anti cielizzy #sebastian michaelis #ciel phantomhive #elizabeth midford #prince soma #agni black butler

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adhd-mess · 4 years

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"Ship whatever you want" but youre anti cielizzy??????

*takes in a deep breath* No, I am not. It’s a trigger for me just like SebaCiel is a trigger for others. I try to be as far away from that ship as possible for reasons that are personal.

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momomaid · 5 years

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Wild ride into antis logic

Cielizzy is fine! They're cousins and it's technically incest but you know what? It was common back then!! If something is wrong, it's only wrong if society is against it! 🐏🐏🐏 their love is true and undying as long as ciel poses as his dead brother ❤

Cielois is okay! It doesn't matter if they wanted to kill each other, it's not abusive because they were abused themselves,,, and the abusive label is entirely dependent on who is abusing!! So Claude and Sebastian are abusers 😬😬😬

Sebaciel?? Miss me 😋😋 with that pedo 👏 and 👏 abusive 👏 shit!! you pedo

What?? You're not a pedo?? You're shipping a CHILD with an ADULT. Why don't you ship a CHILD with a CHILD instead? bc according to my extensive knowledge about pedophiles that is something they would never do!!!

Now i'm going to SCREAM SOME MORE about how much I HATE SEBASTIAN ughhh.. . . he is so abusive for saving ciel from the cult dressing him up and making him dinner everyday.... .. damn demon ughhh i hate complex characters who are morally grey. .. and kill... and are two-faced.. CIEL IS SUCH A BABY AND GRELLE?? FAB!!! 😍😍

I HATE SEBACIEL im so glad YANA doesnt SHIP IT! Haha look 👀 how she hates sebaciel just like me 👼 ::: a woke morally superior tumblr warrior who cares about love and justice! ❤😳 DIE if you dont agree with me 😕😕😕

I HATE SEBACIEL AND ITS NASTY SHIPPERS ! ... .. yana please,, im scared you ship it.. . im scared its canon yana... help..

#kuroshitsuji #black butler #sebaciel #sebashie #thats the tea #im not against any of the ships or characters mentioned in the post #im not against any ship or any character in kuro and in general

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psych-kai · 7 years

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sebaciel: pedophilia or sebastian cares about his soul not his love cielizzy: incest or lizzy cockblocks the yaoi sums up the whole anti-fandom shipping these two ships. just stfu and stop it with bullshit. its fictional you dumb cock fuck. i respect both ships and dont care whats the disadvantage of the ship. i will hunt you down.

#itsfictional #stfu #cielizzy #cielxlizzy #sebaciel #sebastianxciel #black butler #kuroshitsuji #manga #anime #neutralaboutthesetwo #stoplizzyhate #stopsebacielhate #stopcielizzyhate #gofuckyourselfyoudumbcockfuck

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finnyisanactualrayofsunshine · 7 years

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14 for the ask list thing!

Unpopular opinion about my fandom?

I find the kuro fandom can be very black and white on how they see various issues depending on when they’ve looked at a tag or who they follow, and therefor don’t understand that what they’ve seen isn’t the only scenario, if that makes sense. Like one person has had a lot of bad interactions with sebaciel shippers being really awful to them and other people and saying really nasty stuff and so makes a comment about how they dislike sebaciel for those reasons, and someone else has gotten death threats and repeated abuse over just quietly liking the ship while staying in their own lane and haven’t seen sebaciel shippers do anything wrong by the blogs they follow so they think person a is being really awful to other people, etc. and it turns into this whole either you’re pedophilia supporting yaoi fetishizing scum or you’re a rabid cielizzy fan attacking thirteen year olds, because depending on what you look at you see different sides of the fandom. Like I’m only using sebaciel fans as an example but I’ve had a really sweet person talk to me about how they get really scared and upset by how aggressive and abusive anti sebaciel people can be when they just quietly like the ship for their own reasons, and my fave person hates it because of how gross they’ve seen sebaciel shippers be, and I don’t think either of them are wrong. Same with the grell gender issue. There’s people that quietly politely use he/him, and there’s that blog that’s entirely devoted to transphobic comments and posts and literally leaving *he on people’s posts where they use she/her, and when people complain about people being transphobic about grell I think a lot of people see those posts and assume it’s about the first case, when actually these people are complaining about the second type of thing. A lot of fandom arguments come from it being a big fandom so people see very different sides than other people but that gets miscommunicated. Okay that probably didn’t make much sense but there it is.

(Also before anyone gets on my back about how they hate sebaciel on principle because of the age thing not the shippers for the record, I think everyone 100% has the right to be uncomfortable or grossed out by the ship and say so for those reasons, however I don’t think that people should outright attack someone who’s done nothing just because they mention liking the ship because sometimes they ship it with ciel being older, sometimes they’re just 14 year olds shipping it who are hormonal and trying to be #edgy so idk maybe leave them alone it’s a phase, sometimes it’s to cope with stuff, and sometimes people can enjoy things in a fictional capacity while understanding what’s wrong with it, and frankly it’s never your business to ask which case scenario it is because that’s their private business. Personally I don’t like the ship and am uncomfy with it, but I still take that stance on the subject. Thanks for listening to my disclaimer.)

Also I feel like this is a risky post so if anyone fights me I’ll cry thanks

#sebaciel #transphobia

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anchoevies · 7 years

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i think calling a gay ship "anti feminist" is more homophobic tbh.

alright so i assume you’re referring to this post but here’s the thing…

I ain’t no homophobe! I’m gay! I got plenty of gay so I can’t be homophobe! And this wasn’t just a post based on nothing!!

Right here on yana’s twitter she even CONFIRMS that sebaciel is anti feminist. I’m only a beginner on the japanese language, but google translate says it’s so, so it’s so.

And y’all! I’m not homophobic! I’ll share the hate! Here’s a link to yana’s editor saying cielizzy literally is a racist, incestuous, abusive, nasty ship. Right there. And here too.

So before you call me a “homophobe” please :) check your sources :)

#sebaciel #cielizzy #kuroshitsuji #ask

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his-naughty-little-kitten · 7 years

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On SebaCiel and other things

I am greatly surprised that nobody had written about this before. To be honest, I'm even more surprised at how some SebaCiel shippers simply take the blame when they are called pedophiles, rape apologists, and abuse supporters. So I thought it was time already to clarify some misconceptions that those antis have burned so strongly in their own minds.

1.- So we are all pedophiles...

pedophile

[ped-uh-fahyl or, esp. British, pee-duh-]

noun, Psychiatry.

An adult who is sexually attracted to young children.

I always find this one very funny. They think we are all attracted so children! Oh, my god... Let me tell you something, this one is even funnier when those who say it then ship Ciel with someone else too, be it Lizzy, an OC or any other character. Because, you know, Ciel is the problematic part of this argument.

Of course, everybody has their own favorite character, but when it comes to the SebaCiel shippers, what is it that they find so appealing about the ship? I understand I cannot answer this in the name of the whole fandom, but I think a good part of it will agree on the following; we do not fantasize about Ciel.

I am not going to argue about how SebaCiel is not ilegal, problematic or immoral in it's most pure form, because everybody knows that already. Any normal person with some common sense as well as the ones who, like me, study law, are well aware that underaged girls and boys date older men rather often, that love is not regulated or penalized and that child abuse is only a crime when there is a sexual behavior. Liking someone, regardless of the age, is not a crime unless you act on it.

So I am going to skip the introduction and go right to the problematic point; yes, there are a lot of SebaCiel supporters who ship it sexually, me among them. Does this mean that they're all depraved old men who hoard child porn on their computer and jerk off to it? Who knows. Maybe some do, maybe some don't, maybe some Cielizzy fans do, since they ship children too. But the point is, what's the profile (from a statistical point of view) of the average SebaCiel shipper?

We know the majority of the Kuroshitsuji fandom is female. We know that based on GFantasy (Kuroshitsuji publishing magazine) surveys as well as the author's word, and it can be easily proved. We also know that a big part of the readers' ages range from 14 to twenty-something, which can also be proved through GFantasy surveys, or simply checking around the profiles of the Kuroshitsuji bloggers. This gives us an idea of what kind of age and gender the shippers might be, as well as probably reject the dirty old man's theory. But, how is this relevant to the topic at all? A twenty-something young woman can't be a pedophile? Well, yes, she can. But it is unusual, again from a statistical point of view. But then, why do they ship it? And to answer this I have to travel back in time to the not so ancient times in which I was still an underaged high schooler who was starting to get into the series. A time in which many of my female classmates were all crazy over certain male teacher in his forties (yes, you read well, forties) and my best friend couldn't stop talking about her favorite male idol, who was at the very least ten years older than her. I don't know whether you find this shocking or not, but through my experience I was realizing the already well documented fact which is that young women tend to find older men more appealing. But this doesn't have anything to do with shipping, or even with Kuroshitsuji, does it?

Those who are into the yaoi/bl fandom are probably getting my point already. And this is because the japanese bl genre, which is in fact aimed at women, often uses feminine males as protagonists, so a female reader can relate, unlike the real gay erotica, which uses manlier characters, and similarly to the hetero erotica in which the heroine often represents the reader's ambitions. And I'm sure that you've guessed who the more feminine part of the SebaCiel ship is. Ciel is the perfect heroine. He's beautiful, domineering, hard to get, dresses cutely and has the hottest guy ever all to himself. So, do we find Ciel appealing? Yes, of course. He's a well written character with good looks and innate sexyness. Do we fantasize? For sure. Any woman dreams about putting on that lacy lingerie, knee-high stockings and stilettos just like him and seduce their man. But, is he arousing? Hmm... No. Or at least, not without Sebastian.

I don't know whether or not Cielizzy shippers (and other Ciel shippers) write smut, and to be honest I really don't want to know, but if there's something twisted in a handsome man getting it on with an underaged yet highly sexualized, borderline crossdresser boy in high-heeled boots, there must be something equally sick in an underaged girl getting it on with that very same boy.

And then why do we ship it? Because we like little children getting naked? No. Because we like older, handsome, dark, devilishly seductive, adult men getting naked, and we don't like to see them snatched away from us by some other woman, fictional or not. And since Ciel retains that feminine, yet not quite female appeal, he's the perfect match for the true object of our fantasies. And for that reason, I don't think that SebaCiel shippers are any more pedophilic than the rest of Ciel x (?) shippers.

2.- ... And we also promote child abuse...

Rivers of ink have been spilled on this topic. By both parts. On how Ciel is or is not a child, the nature and requirements of consent, what and what not was child abuse in victorian era and how it translates into the contemporary world... I'm not in the mood to repeat all the arguments that have been given. Instead, I'm putting the canon universe aside and talk solely of the nature of law that, I'm aware, is very different in my country and the US.

First and foremost, in my country, sexual activities of any kind aren't considered child abuse when the underaged partner is older than 13, unless the teenager has been deceived to give his consent. Which means that it is licit as long as it is consensual, and promoting a licit act is, once again, not illegal. I am not breaking any law.

But then, what about morals? Yes, I've read a lot of posts of morality and immorality regarding this topic. It is funny how those who believe to be more righteous talk about morality as if they held the ultimate truth. But let me tell you what my college professors, magistrates and connossieurs of law think of "morals"; nothing. And with this, I'm not saying that morality is useless, or that it shouldn't taken into account, simply that 1. Law doesn't always reflect morality. That your laws forbids adults to have sex with consenting teenagers doesn't mean it is immoral. I could as well argue how I find limiting someone's freedom of choice regarding their deepest intimacy to be far more immoral and against the very human nature. And 2. Every single person has different morals. Morality is an opinion. No human holds the absolute truth. What is considered immoral has changed through the ages and it will keep changing with humanity. So be humble, and never attempt to force your view of things into anyone else.

And on a side note, I have a constitutional right to voice mi opinion and promote my ideas, regardless of how immoral, and the attempt to stop me through coercion, including bashing, insulting and shaming, is indeed a crime, so most of the antis are actually breaking the law, not the shippers. So yes, if my crime is doing what I am allowed to do, then I plead guilty. Guilty of being an apologist of freedom, of opinion, and of course, of shipping! :D

3.- And then they say we romanticize abusive relationships...?

This is yet another interesting point, and from here we leave the boring world of law and come back to Kuroshitsuji! <3

So, after seeing that shipping SebaCiel is not illegal nor immoral, we can discuss whether or not it is abuse. It is not child abuse in canon, as age of consent was only for male/female relationships, male/male being an entirely different thing that they called sodomy and didn't have anything to do with age, as well as the fact that Ciel was given his title at the age of 11 in an official ceremony, obtaining the status of head of the family which equals to adulthood to all legal circumstances. Yet someone could argue that a demon from hell could as well coerce a little boy into something lascivious, couldn't he? That he could force, hurt and otherwise violate his consent. It is not hard to believe but, does their relationship work like that? I don't think so.

An abusive relationship is "a pattern of abusive and coercive behaviors used to maintain power and control over a former or current intimate partner. Abuse can be emotional, financial, sexual or physical and can include threats, isolation, and intimidation."

This doesn't sound much like SebaCiel to me, no matter how many times I read it. I truly can't recall a single situation in which any of the things in that list took place. I do, however, notice a strong power-play in which the two of them struggle to maintain control over one another. But, to what extent is it dangerous? It is kind of obvious that for Sebastian is not dangerous at all, so one could make the mistake of believing that Ciel is the weak part. And I wonder if they realized that Ciel is the Master, the owner, the dom, the one handling the riding crop, binding the demon to his will. There's no argument about consent, because what he doesn't like he can stop it with a single order, restrain the demon, make him kneel. And yes, the demon could break the contract, set himself free and take the boy forcefully. But he doesn't, because he loves it. The proud, beautiful and foolish human who doesn't surrender to him.

Of course, this is open to character interpretation, but I think the power-play in Kuroshitsuji is very strong, as well as the subjacent bdsm undertones and themes that we have seen so many times in cover art and official illustrations, as well as in Yana's previous yaoi works. I wanted to point out these themes because a relationship based on dominance/submission is not the same as an abusive relationship, and once again it is all about consent and the sub's power to stop it at any time.

And with this, I'd like to put an end this long review, as well as to agree with some anti's last popular point, which is that fiction affects reality. It really does, so enjoy it as much as you can, and learn from it all the things you might not experience in real life. Immerse yourself in a good story, make research, be critical, ship as much as you want and never, ever let anyone exert any kind of censorship on what you can read, watch, like or ship. ;)

#sebaciel #anti sebaciel #ciel phantomhive #sebastian michaelis #kuroshitsuji

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