#anti jin guangyao

[amzyspinkarch]

After finishing MDZS, reading metas that explain characters, terminology, and things in the book that I went over my head, I started looking at the fanfics I read with a side eye.

Why does it take Jiang Yanli, someone else’s sibling, who possesses the same character traits and qualities as MXY and Qin Su, to become a sibling to JGY, in order to save him? That no longer makes sense to me.

Wei Wuxian apologising to Jiang Cheng. This always angered me or had me conflicted. Sometimes I thought I was wrong for being upset that WWX was apologising. I would not like to read another fanfic with this scenario again.

Why is Jiang Cheng a renowned homophobe shipped with all the men? I get it, I get it, fan fiction. Still..

WWX sleeping around is not accurate.

WWX being an alcoholic is not either.

Why does reconciliation between Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng happen because WWX apologised? How about a fanfic where Jiang Cheng realised his faults and actively changes and he’s the one to apologise? If he can be gay, he can change his ways, and apologise. It’s fan fiction right? All things are possible.

#mdzs #mdzs fanfiction #jiang yanli #jyl #jin guangyao #jgy #mo xuanyu #mxy #qin su #anti jin guangyao #canon jiang cheng #wwx #wei wuxian #I think a lot of us fans #need to take a step back especially us English fans and think #ask ourselves questions #you may be surprised what you find once you’re not biased #metas also really help #it depends on who though honestly

[annebaneriddle]

I still try to undertand the logic going inside the brains of people who say "Well, why are you even writting the wholeass bible to badmouth 'X'?" ("X" character who is canonically a complete asshole who kills innocent people, gaslight people, plays the victim to escape the consequences of their own actions, blame others for what they did, blame-shift, victim-blame, terrorize people, yada yada).

I'm not saying you can't like said character. Far from me telling you who you should like, you and your likes are not my business and you can stan whoever you like, be them real or fictional. The thing is: other's and their dislikes is also not your business, specially if they have a completelly fair and reasonable reason to find a character disgusting.

Let's use Jiang Cheng from MDZS as an exemple: the man did suffer? Hell, yeah. He saw his whole sect being murdered, saw his parents being murdered, had to become a sect leader at a far too young age and then saw his sister being killed too. If that does not count as suffering, I don't know what does. That's totally ok if you feel for him, I do too, I think no one should suffer like that and I also think he is a pretty interesting charactet who adds to the story.

The thing is, the man also announced Wei Wuxian was now an enemy of the cultivation world when the plan was just for them to stage a fight and say the said sect brother has left the sect (that made public opinion of Wei Wucian even worse and contibuted to Jin Guangshan's and Jin Gangyao's plan of getting rid of Wei Wuxian to get tue Stygian Tiget seal to themselves), what makes clear that the thing that made him turn against WWX wasn't Jiamg Yanli's death; he lied to people saying WWX killed JY when JY willingly put herself on the way of the sword meant to pierce through WWX, when she willingly died to protect WWX; he led a siege against innocent people when he knew that they were civilians and that there was even a damn barelly 3 years old child amongst them (not taking the blame away from the other sects, because there is no way you put your sword through an old granny and doesn't notice it isn't an armed cultivator); for 13 years he continuously tortured and killed innocent people to the point of where his nephew was willing to lie to him to help one of them escape because he knew exactly the atrocities his uncle was capable of; civilians around Lotus Pier were afraid of him; his behaviour crosses the line so much that all female cultivators blacklisted him (and given it was at a time where men were excused from plently of shitty behaviour, that is quite surprising); he has the annoying mania of playing the victim, and so the list goes on.

So yeah, do you really has such a thick face to say that people who don't like him don't have the right to dislike him only because "he looked hot with doing that", "he suffered too" or whatever the hell your excuse is?

People who dislike a character have the right of disliking them and writting a wholeass bible about it just like you have the right of writting a wholeass bible worshiping the ground said character walks on. However, it's quite interesting how I seldom see antis clowining stans posts, but it's quite common to see stans complaining on anti posts. It's a two ways road, so get over yourself and stop whinning like a child that is mad because someone didn't find their toy as cool as they think it is.

Not even gonna lie, I don't mortaly hate most characters I find disgusting. What makes me hate them are their stans.

#anti tony stark #anti jiang cheng #anti peggy carter #anti jin guangyao #anti yu ziyuan #anti xue yang

[otgo-brooklyn]

My favourite genre of art is Mian Mian being done with everyone's shit.

POV: Mme. Jin heard about another one of JGS's affairs and allows you to deal with him

#mianmian #luo qingyang #mo dao zu shi #mdzs #mdzs fanart #mxtx mdzs #mxtx #lanling jin #jin guangshan #jin zixuan #jin guangyao #JGS's anti-horney spray #princess mianmian #i will die on this hill #digital art

[lgbtlunaverse]

I don't think we talk about xiyao exes to lovers enough. I understand that in canon the "breakup" ended with death and imo it was never going to end any other way (I have a lot of feelings about how jgy is doomed from the start) but even in aus where survival is an option I barely ever see their full potential realized. The fact that there is this heartbreaking gap that is between them now, and yet that, despite it all, they can't stop loving each other. When you have drama this good, why is the conflict relegated to outside threats and we end up with little to no exploration of internal strife, of the fact that these guys have been living a domestic lie for a decade (I cannot stress this enough, the amount of parralels between xiyao and jgy's marriage to qin su are staggering.)

And let me be clear I will NEVER begrudge anyone their hurt/comfort and wanting their faves who are denied happiness and peace at every turn to find it. god knows I need that sometimes. Or even the less healthy but so emotionally devastating fics where the caring isn't good, and it doesn't fix anything- might only make things worse, actually- and xichen ends up recreating his father's fate. I love all of those things. But. Man. This divorce was over 11 years in the making it should take AT LEAST that long to resolve. What do you do when the person you trusted the most lied to you for years? What do you do when the only person who's ever believed in you loses that faith so completely they'd hurt you over a lie without hesitation? I need me some xiyao who try to get over each other for 20 years and fail. I need them to meet after not seeing each other for years and have it hurt like no time has passed at all. I need arguments where no one raises their voice but that feel like a screaming match anyway. Do you see my vision?? Do you see what we could have?

(if fics that do exacly this are out there, recs are of course welcome)

#mdzs #meng yao #xiyao #lan xichen #jin guangyao #rs: i wish it could've been you #this might make some people really mad #at the idea that jgy has any right to have grievances with xichen but uh... #i'm not interested in arguing with jgy antis. go scream at a wall #or a different camp who DO like xiyao but who are like 'but xichen was lied to jgy wouldn't blame him' #the fact that it was a lie makes it WORSE you guys know that right? #some of you have never been the proverbial boy who cried wolf #and had people assume everything you say is a lie because you've lied in the past #and good for you! You SHOULD be honest with those you love i'm very happy for all of you #but also. lmao. you have no idea how that feels. #i have read aus where they break up and get back together of course #but i always end up feeling like people see the conflict as an obstacle? a thing to get past so we can get them back together #and not.. you know. the most interesting part. the selling point #I think in a slightly lower stakes au xiyao should wait a few years get back together because they love each other and then break up AGAIN #when they realize that the old relationship they had with that easy trust is gone forever. love isn't enough to bring that back #you can build something new. including a new kind of trust just as potent. but that old easy kind is gone. #and i think they should try to get it back because it was the best thing they ever had #and get fucked up about it when they realize they can't #and it should take them well over a decade to mourn it until they're ready to let it go and try to make something new of it #PLEASE let me talk about the xichen qin su parralels please let me talk about how rusong is nmj-coded #not in personality but in the function he has narratively as someone that can never stop haunting jgy. #the fact that nmj's death and rusong's birth were likely extremely close to each other timeline wise LET'S TALK ABOUT IT

[feralplantwife]

It has only just now occurred to me that if Meng Yao is a foil for Wei Wuxian then that means Su She is a foil for Lan Wangji and I can only assume I didn't think this thought sooner because my brain was actively trying to avoid it because ICKYYYYY

Su She gives me the ick. Mr Betray Your Clan and Steal Your Man 🤢

#mdzs #mxtx #mo dao zu shi #wei wuxian #lan wangji #jin guangyao #su minshan #meng yao #su she #i don't support or engage in anti behvior but Su She was a goddamn CREEP and also evil #like yes #he works as a foil for Lan Wangji but also was weirdly in love with him? gross.

[thatswhatsushesaid]

he's not stuck anywhere because he's not real.

#god. what did fictional man jin guangyao do to these antis personally to make them #like /gestures @ whatever this is #also just in case anyone is curious this is the user who said they'd squash him 'like a cockroach' #and did not seem to think making that kind of a statement about this kind of character #(one deemed to be dirty and tainted and unclean already in the narrative) #was something worth unpacking or examining

[calyxcurl]

who are my fellow jgy defense squad people hi hello

#jin guangyao #jin guangyao apologism #jin guangyao defense squad #additionally: jgy antis are welcome and encouraged to block or mute me lmaoo

[jiaoji]

Jiang Cheng got cancelled for: Being a horrible pearson. 💀😂

Jin GuangYao was canceled for: consider yourself uncancelable. (Too canon)

Yu ZiYuan was cancelled for: Be too impatient. (LMAO)

#mdzs #modaozushi #jiang cheng #yu ziyuan #jin guangyao #canon jiang cheng #anti jiang cheng #anti yu ziyuan

[kaz3313]

Jin Guangyao stans 🤝 Jiang Cheng stans: being fans of divisive characters with vitriolic antis

So true~ So true~

#We just exist and antis start frothing at the mouth #I met a JC fan who had such hatred for JGY and I cried like ‘no let’s have solidarity instead’ #nice anon #Anon I assume you are the same as the last one— let’s talk more we have such big brains #jiang cheng #jin guangyao

[annebaneriddle]

While reading the later chapter of the manhua, I thought about something related to the Qiongqi Pass ambush.

So, when questioned if Jin Zixuan’s death was planed by him, Jin Guangyao answered that while he did deliberataly told his half-brother about the ambush (Wei Wuxian is Jiang Yanli’s beloved brother, so of course Jin Zixuan would try to do something to save his wife’s brother if he could), he had no way of knowing that Wei Wuxian was going to end up killing Jin Zixuan.

The, I noticed: he didn’t need to be sure that Jin Zixuan was going to die, because he didn’t need Jin Zixuan to die there. He sure hoped it to happen, but he didn’t need it to happen for the cultivation world totally turn against Wei Wuxian.

Jin Zixun, being Jin Zixuan’s cousin, was way probably going to be heir if Jin Zixuan died, because we all know that Jin Guangshan wouldn’t let Jin Guangyao be the heir of the sect if he had a say about it. Su She supposedly cursed Jin Zixun because he simply wanted to since he hated people like him (what I highly doubt, but whatever), but Jin Zixun concluded that it was Wei Wuxian and tried to ambush him.

What do i mean by it? As long as Jin Zixun died, what was guaranteed to happen, that was probably enough for Jin Guangyao. He could deal with Jin Zixuan later. 

Jin Zixuan was married to Jiang Yanli and we all know that Wei Wuxian rather die than hurt his sister, and her husband dying would for sure hurt her, so the chance that Jin Zixuan would get out of Qionqi alive was high. He dying was a low chance that would only happen if Wei Wuxian somehow lost control, and Jin Guangyao indeed had no way of knowing it would happen. It was only a rough bet.

The chances of Jin Zixuan getting out at least harmed someway, however, were high, and that would give the Jin the perfect excuse to go after Wei Wuxian.

Jin Zixuan was bound to die even if Wei Wuxian didn’t kill him. Even if Jin Zixun wasn’t the heir after Jin Zixuan as I suppose, Jin Zixuan would be killed by Jin Guangyao so he could be sect leader.

So really, what was the point of playing the victim and even trying to gaslight Wei Wei Wuxian by saying “You think you were wronged, but you weren’t”? That peakcock-wannabe annoys me so much with his nonsense, istg.

#mdzs #mo dao su zhi #the grandmaster of diabolism #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #qiongqi path ambush #wei wuxian #anti jin guangyao #but not really #just canon jin guangyao #canon jin guangyao

[twilightarc-gm]

Curiosity for the MDZS problematic faves fans out there. I.e., JC, JGY, XY, and WWX

Feel free to discuss in reblogs.

#mdzs #fandom polls #jiang cheng #jin guangyao #xue yang #wei wuxian #anti behavior #twi posts

[greenandhazy]

A series of important facts:

1. Zhu Zanjin has cute tiny dogs

2. He carries them around in unexpected ways

3. Sometimes he puts them in Jin Guangyao’s costume

4. Jin Guangyao was the one who bought Fairy, so he’s canonically not anti-dog (forget the threat to kill her, he was a little stressed that day ok)

5. According to the American Kennel Club, small Pekingese (4-5 pounds) were sometimes called “sleeve dogs” because Chinese nobility would use them as personal guard dogs, hidden in their sleeves

CONCLUSION:

We need a remake of The Untamed that’s exactly the same except for one crucial element

LET JIN GUANGYAO HAVE A PUPPY

#jin guangyao #the untamed #cql #zhu zanjin #I spent a redacted amount of time trying to replace the garrotte in that one scene with a puppy #and my editing skills are nowhere near up to par #but you know. wwx and dogs. #I thought it would be funny

[veliseraptor]

Top five spiciest untamed opinions!

man, I've been in my own little corner of fandom for long enough that I feel like I struggle a little to parse what is spicy of my opinions and what isn't, but here's a go at it

The Untamed is a show with complex, morally grey characters that's telling a slightly different but not inherently inferior story. Maybe I'm just a bit defensive about this, and I have with time come to appreciate a lot of things about the novel over the way they play out in the show, but The Untamed was the first version of the story that I fell in love with and I think at least some of the criticisms of it overstate the degree to which it morally simplifies the story. I think, whether because of requirements of censorship or other reasons, that the moral messiness of the story is subtler, I don't think it's absent, and while Jin Guangyao in particular falls victim to a pretty intense villain edit the narrative still has plenty of sympathy for him (even if the audience, all too often, does not). I think it's telling a slightly different story (as others have discussed), but I think it's a strong adaptation that still works with the underlying themes of the text.

However, that being said, The lessening of Wei Wuxian's culpability, as in the introduction of the second flautist, weakens his character. I feel like the character of Wei Wuxian as we see him in The Untamed still has the recognizable flaws of the character from the novel - I think the degree to which they're sometimes claimed to be toned down is overstated, which I think I've written some about before. He's still at least a little arrogant, causes problems, has a definite temper, and doesn't always respect other peoples' choices, among other things. But what The Untamed does do is remove some of his culpability, or at least temper it - both for Jin Zixuan's death and the massacre at Nightless City, which are two moments that contribute to a strong tragic arc in the first life, which makes for a more powerful (imo) arc in the second life. Removing, or at least lessening, Wei Wuxian's culpability for Jin Zixuan's death and Jiang Yanli's death makes him more a victim of circumstance than of his own human flaws, and at least for me, a character who is doomed by their own flaws is a far more compelling one than one who just happens to fall victim to outside forces. It makes him, I would argue, more passive and less of an active force, and I think the culpability for those two deaths - and the loss of control that causes it - makes for a more powerful narrative than that of a man who is victimized by someone else's actions.

Jin Guangyao was a good Chief Cultivator. I see people talk about him as though he was corrupt and evil and just plotting all the time, but the Bad Things™ he does mostly happen before his tenure as Chief Cultivator and, even taking those into account, have a limited impact on the world at large (with the exception of Nie Mingjue's death, but even that I would argue has more personal repercussions than broader political ones). As far as his responsibility for the cultivation world at large, we have no evidence prior to his downfall that he is negatively perceived by people, except for the fact of his birth/origins.

this is more MDZS-related than Untamed specific, but: MXTX deserves praise for writing "problematic" and messy queer sex, but it's just not hot. I don't have a whole lot to add on this one, but one of my least favorite parts of some corners of The Untamed fandom are people who are thoroughgoing MXTX antis who are quick to cry about the ~problematic~ aspects of Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian's sex life (which, honestly, I think are overstated a lot of the time, as is the weirdness of the sex scenes); however, in my opinion, the sex scenes as they stand just aren't very sexy, and I don't think that's intentional (as it arguably is in SVSSS). The sex scenes may be a shortcoming in the text, perhaps, but not the one certain people think it is.

this is again a stronger argument in the novel but I think it's present in the show as well: Jin Guangyao and Wei Wuxian are "there but for the grace of god" foils, but not in the sense of Jin Guangyao being "Wei Wuxian if he made bad moral choices" but in the sense of "who Wei Wuxian could've been if his circumstances were different." I've definitely written about this before and how much it drives me nuts the way people treat narrative foils in this story in general as Goofus and Gallant style duos, but this is a specific one. I think Jin Guangyao is an example of a story that runs alongside Wei Wuxian's, but ends in a different place, and I think the story isn't saying that he ends in that place because of something inherently worse about Jin Guangyao, but because of the way his circumstances happen to diverge from Wei Wuxian's in specific key ways. In some ways his ending is even a near beat-for-beat rewrite of Wei Wuxian's death, and Wei Wuxian receives the grace of a second life not because of any inherent merit, but actually because of his bad reputation. I think this goes for Xue Yang, too, actually.

I absolutely know I'm forgetting things and there are probably things back in my bitchy opinions tag that I could dig out, but here's at least a few that came to mind.

#conversating #maester of spreadsheets #lise has opinions #none of these feel so bitchy they need to go in the bitchy opinions tag but just in case i think i'll #lise's aggressively bitchy opinions about irrelevant and unimportant matters #lise memes #top five meme #the sad queer cultivators show

[yunmeng-jiang]

(character antis, please don't rant in the tags - this is not an invitation to vent about exactly how much you dislike a character)

#the untamed #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #cql #cheng qing ling #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #jiang cheng #jin guangyao #mxtx #mo xiang tong xiu #polls

[admirableadmiranda]

I recently read somewhere here (won't name them) that after the Guanyin Temple confession, Lan Wangji's actions were selfish. That he should have stayed there to comfort his brother who has just lost (and killed) the love of his life instead of f-ing of to screw the love of his life. The person has referenced chapter 110 (111 on some websites) where Lan Wangji says that even comfort from his brother by birth will be in vain.

I hope you will analyse that part. Because I think it is a translation issue. It doesn't sound like something Lan Wangji would say. I would have accepted that person's analysis if their post wasn't so blatantly anti-wangxian?

Well anon, the thing is that the person posting it does have the correct line. It’s not a translation issue.

The issue is their whole interpretation of the situation. Lan Xichen was not in love with Jin Guangyao, he did not kill the love of his life and this person is doing the same rude shit as a lot of people who don’t like Wangxian choosing each other over nebulous ideas of duty.

They are taking a narration line and putting it in Lan Wangji’s mouth from the sound of it, lemme grab it for you. It is from Chapter 111, right after Wei Wuxian reveals that the Guanyin in the temple looks like Jin Guangyao’s mother.

“[Wei Wuxian] turned and glanced back, letting out a rare sigh, “I don’t want to care about any of those nasty things anymore. This is it.”

Lan WangJi nodded and tightened Lil’ Apple’s reins. He continued to walk with it.

Each could only deal with their own troubles. Even if Lan XiChen was his brother by birth, Lan WangJi couldn’t do anything to help him right now. Comfort was useless. It’d all be in vain.”

Bolded line highlighted for necessary emphasis.

It’s just narration there, it’s being treated as a fact - and it is. The things that Lan Xichen needs right now are not things that Lan Wangji can provide him. Lan Xichen needs time and space to grapple with everything that he saw and his own role in all the events that came to pass. What could Lan Wangji do? Lan Xichen is confronting his own guilt both in what he participated in and what he looked aside from, things that brought irreparable harm to a lot of people including his brother and the love of his brother’s life.

How would Lan Wangji staying help anything there? Lan Xichen has just watched them cuddle through a siege, flirt and laugh and tell each other how much they loved each other. It is the one unquestioningly good thing to come out of that night, something that he wanted, for his brother to be happy. That’s the whole crux of his rant at Wei Wuxian, he wants his brother to be happy and he thinks that Wei Wuxian is knowingly toying with his feelings.

Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian are already planning to elope even before anyone else gets there. They sneak off really quickly and easily. Lan Xichen is not looking for them, he’s busy telling Lan Qiren to shut up and let him think.

Lan Xichen is already filled with guilt and confusion over what’s happened, but also think about how much worse it would feel if he knew his brother set aside his own marriage and honeymoon to come sit with him, sacrificing his own happiness to Lan Xichen again, this time much more knowingly. That wouldn’t make him feel better. That wouldn’t make anyone who has a shred of empathy feel better. It is more likely a comfort to Lan Xichen to know that something good did come out of that terrible night.

They return three months later, when they are settled and choose to come back and then Lan Xichen is ready for that comfort. He wouldn’t have wanted it then. It was too soon and the cost of it would have been too high.

These brothers care about each other and know each other well and they are in their thirties. They are not helpless children any longer. Lan Xichen is not alone and suffering, he returns to his clan with hundreds of people living in it to pick up the ashes at his feet. He has solace in knowing that at least one person is happy and better off despite his actions in the matter. Let him have that.

I hate that stupid trend you reference in your post. I hate the idea that Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji have to continue sacrificing their lives and everything else to take care of the people around them first.

They have been parted by circumstance, homophobia, war, the aftermath of war and fucking death for twenty years. They have in fact actually gone through worse than most of the rest of the cast and somehow finally found their way back to each other and a happy ending. What more do people want before they are allowed to be selfish for once in their lives?

#mdzs #wangxian #wei wuxian #lan wangji #lan xichen #asks #anon #anon asks #like dude what a terrible take to take #just let them have their happily ever after for once #and let everyone else deal with the consequences #also get the XiYao stuff off of the ending #please cite to me where mxtx ever says anything like that in book or interview #it’s literally just being used as a cudgel against wangxian for daring to have their own lives #something that LXC WOULD WANT for his brother #or did you miss the meaning of the entire rant in the temple?

[canes-venatici200]

Antis are now making lists highlighting Fanon Wei Wuxians many “character flaws” and “issues”.

So I decided to make my own list of Jiang Wanyins many character flaws and issues.

1. He has self-esteem issues. His whole speech to Wei Wuxian about his daddy issues and being inferior to Wei Wuxian in Guanyin Temple proves my point.

2. He’s a child abuser. He almost leads Jin Ling several times to his death in night hunts and at the time of the story at most 3 months passed by since Wei Wuxian was revived and during that time Jin Ling was slapped several times by Jiang Wanyin. Imagine all of Jin Ling’s childhood?

3. He tries to play hero several times but makes the situation worse. He arrogantly believed he could take out the Wens but ends up losing his core. In Guanyin Temple he also lets Jin Guangyao mess with his head even though he had the upper hand and ends up injured as a result and taken prisoner.

4. He has no honor. Wen Qing and Wen Ning give him his parents bodies back to be buried and hid him and Wei Wuxian from the Wens which made him indebted to them. But how does he pay them back? By letting them starve at the Burial Mounds and by killing them and their family.

5. He’s toxic and verbally abusive. Again in the Dafan Mountain he almost has Jin Ling kill himself by threatening him to never have him back to his mothers sect if he didn’t win. He also screams like a banshee all of the time.

I’m sure I missed many so anyone is free to keep adding.

#mdzs #canon jiang cheng #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation