The way F/eyre's five years of poverty and three months UTM is literally the only character trait she has is...so annoying.
Even when a character has been through substantially worse F/eyre manages to make herself the ultimate victim. It's how we get lines like these:
"I looked at the High Lord of Summer. I hadn’t lied. It would be easy to fall in love with a male like him. But I wasn’t entirely sure that even with the hardships he’d encountered Under the Mountain, Tarquin could understand the darkness that might always be in me. Not only from Amarantha, but from years spent being hungry, and desperate."
Like WHAT. You want me to logically compare Tarquin literally spending his entire youth trapped under a torture mountain, the death of his family, and the destruction of his home...to a girl who was poor for five years??
I kind of have to be mean here. It's not that trauma doesn't manifest in all types no matter the severity of the traumatic event...but to suggest that Tarquin's entire life being stolen from him, and the death of his family is comparable to a girl who made the decision to go UTM is crazy. F/eyre...what does this mean?? In the scope of things, both are pretty bad, but Tarquin has literally had to go through these things significantly longer.
It's also this way with F/eyre's childhood. Because guys...she had one. By the time she was poor, she was already a teenager. If anything N/esta and E/lain didn't have childhoods. F/eyre realistically had way more freedom and fun because no one was watching her. By the time they were thirteen, they were already groomed to court marriages. F/eyre didn't have this pressure. (again, this really just gets at the craziness of sjm suggesting that a rich heiress like F/eyre wouldn't have been able to read. her sisters were already in society, and they weren't even fifteen). I keep seeing people always say she didn't have a childhood and didn't get to play -- and yes the hell she did. She was poor...not dead. It's the way SJM can't write poverty for crap. [edit: f/eyre’s mother not caring about her marriage status/being negligent would still be unrealistic in regards to f/eyre literacy. disregarding the fact that f/eyre literally states at some point she had a governess/nurse figure who would have been the one to take care of her anyway. Her mother being negligent literally wouldn’t have effected her literacy. Also, only F/eyre’s mother was negligent during their time in wealth, Nesta clearly states that their Father loved and cared for Feyre and Elain, but the mother groomed only Nesta, discounting Elain because she was already beautiful. There’s no way the mother bad enough time to run a household and teach two daughters to read. And F/eyre has a nurse at some point in the story, and someone would have had to be watching her — hence the point of having a household in society.]
I just don't get how F/eyre being poor is so hard for Tarquin to be able to understand, especially considering he's been literally at the mercy of UTM, and Beron literally says that had to all fight for their lives every night. Whew Chile, F/eyre's character is a hot mess.
My brows rose. Tamlin turned away but whirled back a moment later, his teeth bared. “It was a mistake from the start. I can’t stomach it, not after what my father did to their kind, to their lands. I won’t follow in his footsteps—won’t be that sort of person. So back off.”
“Back off? Back off while you seal our fates and ruin everything? I stayed with you out of hope, not to watch you stumble. For someone with a heart of stone, yours is certainly soft these days. The Bogge was on our lands—the Bogge, Tamlin! The barriers between courts have vanished, and even our woods are teeming with filth like the puca. Are you just going to start living out there, slaughtering every bit of vermin that slinks in?”
TURNS INTO THIS
Why like why would she say that ??????
The whole of book 1 Lucien is constantly trying to set up Feyre and Tamlin because he wants her to break the curse sooner. Tamlin tells him to stop meddling or "back off" because he feels guilty about seducing a human like that. WHY WOULD HE FEAR HER FALLING FOR LUCIEN WHEN HE DOESN'T EVEN WANT TO SEDUCE HER IN THE FIRST PLACE??? Does feyre think everyone she meets loves her and flirts with her??? Like in the same scene Feyre asks Lucien to take her out instead of Tamlin but he legit refuses!!!!
Quick question: if Timtam was abusive/cruel all along (I’m not referring to RED FLAGS, I mean straight up cruel), then… why did Amarantha want him? Because iirc her original plan was to make him her consort, not steal his magic. But why would you wed someone you KNOW is unstable and cruel and abusive, someone who could hurt you? And taking it one step further: why does the dude care for humans then? We need Sarah J Maas to explain these contradictions because I do not understand. At all.
I mean. First off I think the fandom tends to discount how tam also sucks as a love interest for fey/re just because rice is SO much worser than him. He had a couple sweet scenes with fey/re and a more realistic relationship that resembled romance based on conflict and acceptance but let's not delude ourselves into thinking he was by any means good.
Secondly amarantha is canonically sadistic - she used to torture humans during the war and abused many men during her reign in pryhtian. I think we shouldn't discount the fact that women are capable of being just as evil and abusive as men, if not worse. I don't think she'd have shied away from marrying tam even if he was cruel if she thought he offered her an advantage but I'm kinda detracting because she specifically seeks predatory relationships that offer her all the control and no resistance on the other person's part.
Amarantha wants him because she apparently cares more about forcibly having the guy she's taken a liking to at any cost. It offers very little nuance (there was potential to expand on her predatory nature towards men but there's also the conversation to be had about the number of women who sexually assault men in her books which is kind of disgusting but I won't get into all that) and is kind of stupid because amarantha could've been a more complex character if she'd specifically sought him out for the power he could potentially offer but it is what it is.
Tam, afaik, isn't explicitly bad and tries to be kind to his subjects to the best of his abilities and doesn't try to harm people for no reason at all (like beron). He treated fey/re with kindness because he's generally a decent guy and fell in love with her and therefore treated her family well by extension. S/jm can't for the life of her pick a character arc and complete it right so none of his actions and motivations are explained quite right.
The entirety of the ACOTAR fandom is honestly built on lies and misinterpretation because we're constantly fed Feyre's POV on things so we tend to interpret it the way she does too. So when a character like Nesta or Tamlin do something Feyre thinks is wrong, the readers end up agreeing because it's all the know. They don't bother looking into certain things within the story and just trust what Feyre tells us.
I also find it genuinely scary how Rhysand has convinced everyone including the reader how much much of a good person he is despite his actions being the complete opposite of what he claims to be.
There is a clear lack of consistency in this story that isn't even hard to miss but since people are so invested in the hot faeries they tend to over look the important things such as the obvious hypocrisy.
And lets say these characters are meant to be flawed and morally grey, they're still never portrayed as that. I like the idea of super villain Rhysand, and it's an entertaining storyline to me which is why I don't hate him but do partake in Rhys slander, the problem with him is despite the guy acting like an asshole the author puts him in a pedestal where he's the nicest sweetest person in the whole series despite the existence of Lucien.
The fact that Leigh Bardugo was called a "fat cripple" behind her back in an ofensive tone by a famous author she knew, and had to listen to another one, Sarah J Maas, who was 30 at the time, talk about how sexually attracted she was to Mal, a literal minor in the grisha books, when she recently opened up about being abused and grommed as a child, just makes me wonder how many things authors have to go through with other writers that we don't know of.
Ps: the interview where sjm said this is in youtube, and I also made a post with it, so you can find it in my page if you want conffirmation
Acosf really try to make a story about a grown man wanting to marry a 14 year old all about proving how good a seductress the 14 year old was. Not about how she has been preyed on by men from such a young age.
if nesta was a man yall wouldve been on yalls knees for her. but because shes a female “villain” or toxic female character yall are shittitng on her. same with zoya, yall despised her at first. yet i see men who are far worse than her (rhysand, darkling) and yall are madly in love with them. if men did tthe same shit as zoya and nesta yall wouldve said “omg so hot <3″ hypocrisy, misogyny, disgusting, ignorant,
Um I was really wondering why you don't like feyre because she's the one most concerned about nesta???? And see myself a lot in feyre so it hurts when is see ppl dragging her.
okay so there are a lot of reasons why i dont like feyre. the way she treated nesta is just one of them.
the way she treated nesta
tore down nesta's home and insulted it as well
imprisoned her in the house of wind
did the same thing that tamlin did to her
if she really wanted to help nesta why couldn't she have had that intervention without rhysand and amren
the first thing she did after banishing nesta and tearing down her house was have sex with rhysand...
there's probably more but i can't remember them right now. acosf was horrid and i spent a lot of time trying to purge it from my head.
other reasons i dont like feyre
actually compared to everything else, the way she treated nesta is low on my list of reasons.
1. the way she ruined the spring court
she tore it all down because she wanted to get back at Tamlin..but what about all the other innocent people there? what about all the other people she left vulnerable to Hybern? she got a sentry whipped because she wanted to make Ianthe and Tamlin look bad.. she destroyed the faith Tamlin's people had in him in the middle of a fucking war. ( yet another reason why she shouldn't be high lady )
2. the way she ruined the summer court
when she crippled the spring court, it allowed Hybern to bring his forces in and we all know what happened after that. Summer suffered massively because of Feyre's actions. Then there's the way she treated Tarquin after the battle at Adriata, which i wont write about because it makes me too angry.
3. the way she treated lucien
she treated lucien like shit on numerous occasions. she used him to make tamlin jealous. as far as i can remember feyre knew of the SA lucien had suffered and still continued to use him.
when she learned about the BoE she made fun of him and insulted all three of them. she couldnt be happy that Lucien had made friends outside of the night court i guess. she belittled him and his friends even when all he wanted to do was wish her a happy solstice.
4. ALMOST HAD SEX IN A LIBRARY FULL OF SEXUAL ASSUALT SURVIVORS.
5. GAVE RHYSAND A BLOWJOB IN A TENT SURROUNDED BY DYING PEOPLE.
why just why.
6. after feysand happened practically everything was about rhysand
this is more on sjm's writing but made me dislike feyre.
7. behavior at the high lords meeting.
they called the meeting to show that they could be trusted and that they aren't working for the enemy but during the meeting the night court harmed ( or used magic on ) 4 people.
8. the way as high lady she treats the CoN
she is the high lady of the night court. the night court includes the court of nightmares. the way they continue to let the people of the CoN rot under that mountain is quite disgusting. The way feysand treats the entire population of the CoN like shit and doesn't consider that there are innocent people trapped there... yuck .
im sure there are many more people that have explained these better than i have
if you want a more comprehensive explanation on this stuff @worldsnotsaid has some great posts on the matter.
also very sorry it took me so long to answer this ask
It’s also worth noting that F/eyre didn’t just get C/lare killed. She gets the entire estate killed. The ENTIRE estate. All of the servants, their children, every single person on that estate got killed because of F/eyre. R/hys sat back and watched as dozens of people get killed, when he could have just...not asked for F/eyre’s name. And F/eyre...could have just lied, seeing as she was already lying. And R/hys talks about C/lare...what about the whole families you got massacred because you were being selfish?? Because he didn’t having enough self control to walk away from F/eyre.
And the reason i’m making this clear is because F/eyre and R/hys totally judge Tamlin for having to tell about R/hys mother and sister, even though his family is canonically worse than Beron’s family, and the only logical, consistent worldbuilding explanation that would not be a retcon was that T/amlin was forced. And the story goes out of its way to constantly to absolve R/hys by needlessly retconning Tamlin to vilify him, while totally disregarding the fact that both R/hys and F/eyre literally did the same thing to an entire estate of people.
The story makes it point to only talk about C/lare...but F/eyre and R/hys got entire families killed to save their asses. And that’s actually the prompting reason she goes UTM, because she royally screwed an innocent family. I’ve tried to see it another way, but the whole scene where R/hys asks for F/eyre’s name is literally admitted by R/hys as unneeded. A/marantha didn’t force him to go to the Spring Court the first time, and she didn’t force him when he went the second time. These are ALL R/hys decisions.
You know I’m just going to say it, I hate when people act like everyone around Rhys is the epitome of perfection and then invalidates others feelings about him because they think they haven’t read past the first book (As if the first book wasn’t reason enough to to hate his character) so let’s look what Rhys has realistically done in canon shall we.
ACOTAR- Went into Feyre’s mind without her consent scaring her so much that she wet herself, SA’ed Feyre, Dr*gged Feyre, twisted the bone in Feyre’s broken arm, made a bargain with Feyre not telling her that there would be a permanent tattoo on her body, kissed Feyre without consent. Made Feyre dance until she vomited, left Feyre in an outfit that barely in a cold cell, had daemati powers yet doesn’t use them to communicate with anyone, taunts Lucien using his mother.
ACOMAF- Steals from Tarquin, calls himself the best high lord even though he has two misogynistic men in a position of power, tells Feyre not to compare him to Tamlin even though he has also canonically abused her (UTM), withholds information about the mating bond from her, tells Feyre that it’ll be a while until he could look at her sisters without wanting to roar at them yet never once in the entirety of the series does he blame their father.
ACOWAR- Makes Nesta physically sick when flying with her, tries to have sex with Feyre in a library for SA surviors, has sex in a tent while their are people dying, shocked when people don’t easily trust him after he’s kept up a facade for 50 years, makes a deal with Mor’s ab*ser,
ACOFAS- tells Feyre that “Elain is Elain” but says that he can never forgive Nesta even though Feure herself said that Nesta had done enough to make up for it, says he can’t forgive people who have hurt her when he himself has hurt Feyre, decides to put more money into building another home instead of using it to help rebuild his court from the affects of the war.
ACOSF- Threatens to fight Nesta who is not in the right mental state due to her war PTSD, has to be told by his significantly younger mate to either shut up or get out if he’s not going to act properly, destroys Nesta’s safe space so she has no where else to go, had previous information about how dangerous it could be for Feyre to have a baby with wings way before even conceiving Nyx (which should have been brought up before or during their trying for him, even if it was a small percentage Feyre still had a right to know prior to conception), hid pivotal medical information from Feyre about the safety of her and their child and told everyone else not to tell her too, gets mad and threatens Nesta’s life when she tells Feyre about the baby even though the whole situation could have been avoided if he had just told Feyre the truth in the first place.
And that was all I could remember off the top of my head. I’m sure there are more than this. But overall Rhys has done a lot of horrible stuff in this series and I hate how he’s portrayed as this great guy who can do no wrong and how some people will blame his actions on unreliable narration in ACOSF when most of the things I got mad at Rhys about were also in Cassian’s POV. So stop saying it’s character bias when he’s done a lot of things prior to ACOSF. It’s just beyond frustrating at this point
no more “ambiguously colored” characters. no more “suntanned skin” “golden skin” “warm honey peanut butter nutella sriracha condiment skin” it’s ok to say the words “dark” and “skin” in the same sentence. if you have to shove the two times “tanned skin” was mentioned down my throat to reach at POC representation, i will tell you that it is simply not enough. also stop with the freaking salad dressing skin colors. nobody writes white people as “ranch toned” or “egg colored” and it’s unfair POC have to sludge through pages of food descriptors just to feel good about a pinch of representation.
me when I see someone defending Rhysand's sexual offender actions saying it was for her own benefit and protection while hating nesta archeron for being a little mean to her sister even when feyre mentioned they were equally spiteful towards each other and she didn't know who was worse:
Always good to have confirmation of things people already knew. In this case, that s/jm worships r/hys and somehow doesn't realize that arrogant is a personality trait and not just an insult. He absolutely is arrogant as shown in the text. You can like r/hys, that doesn't make him not arrogant.
It explains so much about nesta's perspective and how weirdly she viewed him.
Ok but we NEED to talk about this interview with Leigh Bardugo and SJM. The interviewer asks what character is their favourite from each other's series, and Sarah answers Mal is her favourite in shadow and bone because "he is so hot" and "makes her sweaty".
Now, Mal is between the ages of 17 and 18 in the trilogy, just like Alina. This interview was 5 years ago, and Sarah was 30. So, basically this is a 30 year old grown woman talking about feeling attracted to a character while he is literally a teenager in the books. This, when most of her work is targeted as YA and sold for actual teens.
What makes it even worse is that Leigh opened up about being a victim of SA as a child not long ago. She's there having to listen to an adult YA writer go off about how she feels sexually attracted to her teen character.
She laughs but she seems to be unconfortable, then follows with a "isn't she classy" in a tone that doesn't actually suggested it being the case.
Don't come at me with "he is just a character" or "he doesn't exist" thing. Yeah, is obvious Mal doesn't exist, but the point is that she still imagines him as a teen in her head and feels attracted to that image. Leigh writed Mal and Alina as teenagers/kids because that's what they were. If that was a man in his 30s saying he though 17-18 Alina was "super hot" and talking about him sweating thinking about her, I bet there would be a lot more people talking about it. I'm just not ok with an author who writes for teens talking about feeling something for one, even if he is fictional, because the idea she has on her mind of him and is drawn to is still of a child.
I'm not trying to cancel her or anything, but I don't want to hear people asking why Leigh stopped being friends with Sarah after a while. And this is not the first time that someothing of this nature happened. There was also the whole soap thing, that they tried to brush under the rugs, together with the fact that her books should have been always targeted as adult and not YA considering their content, even her ex best friend Susan Dennard talked about this (which I want so say preach since not every author talks about those things). I'm also tired of seeing adults talking about having attraction towards teenagers and everybody pretending like is normal, when it truly isn't, in any type of context.
Man, I really loved the part where Feyre, who has five houses because of her mate, is crying over a receipt of alcohol Nesta spent. She literally is Jeff Bezos, she's upset that people are suffering after the war and still has five houses.
On another note, Cindy's review was fucking hilarious and yall are too up SJM's ass to listen to valid points lol.
Does Feyre Want her Family's Help or Does she just like to bitch?
While listening to Acotar last year my fiance had me pause the audiobook to ask me a few questions.
1. Does Feyre show Papa Archeron how to skin and clean her kills?
2. Does she ask Elain to grow vegetables instead of flowers? (Do they sell her flowers to a perfume maker?)
3. Does she get Nesta gloves to help with the splinters?
4. Does Feyre ask Elain to take their father's carvings to town to sell them? (Maybe Feyre could paint them and they could be toymakers. Why is she angry the crippled man doesn't want to walk to town?)
And most importantly
5. Does she ask for help or just stomp around grumbling like a mother cleaning up dinner? Wishing someone would read her mind instead of actually asking for help.
He then said that if she hasn't done those things, she likes being the victim. She likes to bitch. She's the martyr of the Archeron family. And likes it that way.