#anti spuffy

[nevergonnabemuchmorethanweather]

My favorite Sp*ffy moment is when Spike watched Buffy and Angel interact again for two minutes in End of Days and it obliterated three years worth of obsessive hope that she might actually love him.

No amount of beating him up or explaining her actual feelings or dropping bomb sized hints could do it but one look at her with Angel and he was like "Oh right that's what Buffy in love looks like. Yeah I was nowhere even close. This is embarrassing."

#btvs #anti spuffy #bangel

[lecoindecachou]

Do I hate that ship or do I just hate the shippers, a novel by me

#dare i tag the ships? #anti spuffy #anti snowbarry #anti buddie #anti supercorp #anti sterek #anti destiel #but in fairness i hate all spn fans equally #anti bughead #anti johnlock

[becomingbuffypodcast]

Who get the biggest passes from Buffyverse fans and can you give examples of the worst things these characters do?

Well this is a juicy question.

Spike, and Cordelia.

Interestingly, at some point, both characters were given the role of calling Buffy out on her "crap." James Marsters even talks about how he was brought in as a replacement for Cordelia in season 4, but then was replaced by Anya when they decided to do something else with him.

With Cordy being the mean girl, and Spike the soulless vampire, the writers had the freedom to use these characters to say and do some incredibly cruel things towards Buffy in the name of "brutal honesty," while also excusing their behavior because they weren't meant to be the hero...at least initially.

This worked a little too well, as Charisma and James were amazing in their roles. Each character is charming, beautiful, multifaceted, and extremely funny.

The problem is, you can't keep your characters stagnate, so the writers were forced to give Cordy and Spike character growth, but also find a way to retain who they are. This is incredibly difficult when your character was literally written to clash with Buffy, and is popular for saying mean, biting things in the name of "tough love."

-Cordelia-

While Queen C is more than the resident mean girl, her cruel words and selfish behavior are praised as "truth" and confidence, with her belittling nearly every member of the Scooby gang. She is constantly pitting herself against Buffy; (Homecoming, Halloween, etc) demeaning and belittling her when Buffy has personally saved her life several times. She begins to show signs of character growth in season 3, but once Xander cheats on her, reverts right back to blaming Buffy for everything. Instead of holding Xander accountable for his actions, she makes a wish that Buffy never came to Sunnydale, and then never sees the consequences for her own actions.

Even after her move to LA, she calls Buffy a cry-Buffy, blames her for turning Angel into Angelus, emasculates Wesley, victim blames and shames a SA survivor (Untouched), and is generally just careless about what she says or does, with no thought about how her words effect others.

Personally, while I do see some growth over her time on Angel, I do not buy her characterization in the later seasons where she is drastically changed to become a Champion, and then shoe-horned into a relationship with Angel. On top of that, she never atones for or even recognizes her need to change for her awful behavior, and that makes it very hard for me to forgive her for her past sins, let alone root for her.

It's possible that with better writing and without Joss being a horrible person, that her transition would have been more organic and believable.

-Spike-

For a show about feminism, the writers really spend a lot of time on this man. He steals Buffy's underwear, stalks her, makes a sex robot that looks just like her, attempts to kill her multiple times, boasts about killing and torturing other slayers, justifies it by saying they wanted it, ties her up, then spends a season belittling her just so that she'll sleep with him. THEN when she refuses sex with him, attempts to force himself on her.

And for those of you who say, "oh he just didn't have a soul yet." Fine.

After he had a soul, he boasts about assaulting her, shames her for using him for sex when he knew she didn't love him, shames her for not loving him, and blames her for the reason he's tortured with having a soul. (Beneath You)

He nearly kills Robin Wood, and then mocks him for not being loved by his mother (which is proven to be false in "Damage"), all while wearing the coat that he stole from Robin's mother after he killed her.

Not once does he apologize to Buffy or attempt to hold himself accountable, even after he has a soul. It is not until "Damage" on Angel that we see any sort of unselfish remorse.

Then to add insult to injury, season 7 has Buffy spending so much time taking care of Spike, rescuing Spike, training with Spike, reassuring Spike that he is a good man...all to the detriment of her other relationships. People like to blame the Potentials for why season 7 is as clunky as it is, but I blame the focus on Spike.

Even worse, the show doesn't seem to want Spike to change, as there's hardly a difference between pre souled and ensouled Spike. And that goes against the show's core tenant of choice and growth.

From the very beginning, vampires represent the opposite of adolescence in that they are stagnate and do not change. "Fool for Love" very clearly establishes that Spike's persona is created to compensate for his lack of an identity. Cecily's rejection of him deeply wounds him and he is shown to create a facade to mask his insecurities. So he takes from powerful women and forms a false identity around them to prove that he is not beneath them. The episode emphasizes this pattern with Cecily, Dru, and the two Slayers, continuing in present day with Buffy.

In order to be consistent with the lore and message of the show, ensouled Spike needed to look a lot different from un-ensouled Spike, but the writers knew he wouldn't be as popular.

And so we're left with a half baked season where we're supposed to believe that Buffy is distant from everyone but Spike, who looks the exact same as he did the season before when he tried to force himself on her.

It's just icky. It's the opposite of empowering. It blurs the lines of the lore. And it sends the wrong message.

We can like these characters and even root for them, but we need to be honest about their flaws, and not justify awful writing and problematic characterization.

#buffy summers #buffy the vampire slayer #buffy btvs #tv: btvs #buffy watching #becomingbuffypodcast #sarah michelle gellar #alyson hannigan #buffy anne summers #btvs s5 #anti spuffy #anti spike #anti cordelia #bangel #buffy and angel #buffythevampireslayer #not really anti #i dont hate them

[liam-summers]

Just saw a post where someone said that Buffy is an unreliable narrator because of all the times she said she doesn't love Sp*ke, since the one (1) line in season 7 "why does everyone in this house think I'm still in love with Sp*ke?" makes it indisputably canon that she has loved him since maybe season 5, definitely season 6, and this is clearly her finally admitting it after having lied to herself about it for seasons....

Honestly, the level of delusion it takes to get to this conclusion is truly impressive, because not only was that not even the original line/intention from the script (the original being "why does everyone in this house think I'm in love with Sp*ke?") but the way some people will watch the show Buffy the Vampire Slayer for 6.5 seasons where this woman has repeatedly and consistently and violently said that she DOES NOT love Sp*ke's crusty ass, and then dismiss all of that based of of one line that wasn't even meant to have that one extra word that has fuelled rabid delusions for 20+ years in this cursed fandom.

and then to make matters even funnier, these same people will turn around and twist the line "I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life" (Buffy re: Angel in S7) into "she meant before, she doesn't love him now, it's so out of character.", ignoring the part where she says "MORE THAN ANYTHING IN THIS LIFE", which means more than she's ever, has ever and will ever love anything in her life, something she has repeated at least once a season for 7 seasons straight..........like, not only are you all delusion, but you also apparently have extremely poor reading comprehension skills.

#to say buffy is an unreliable narrator in any situation involving SP*KE is actually so crazy #Sp*ke the character that has episodes and story arcs specifically dedicated to showing the audience how much of an unreliable narrator he i #a man who for 150+ years has projected his twisted obsessions onto several women who never wanted anything to do with him #and you're telling me you're gonna take his word and one fluke sentence over seasons worth of proof that says otherwise #BE FOR FUCKING REAL #I will never accept that we all watched the same show #the buffy fandom is such an embarrassment #anti spuffy #oh and in case I didn't make myself clear #Buffy was never in love with Sp*ke in season 5 6 or 7 #and even his stupid ass knows it

[bluestarsandclouds]

I had never seen S6 &S7 of Buffy before and now that I have. I have to ask what the actual fuck? And what are some of these takes I have been seeing? I have so many thoughts.

First of all, Buffy Summers deserved so much better.

A vampire being in love with someone significantly younger than them is a trope present in all of vampire literature. Angel being with Buffy is not wrong considering this a supernatural show.

Also and I can’t believe I need to say this but words have meanings. Dating a minor is not pedophilia and using said word gets in the way of prosecuting the actual crime.

Like if you want to go after Angel for something, maybe go after him for not communicating properly and taking unilateral decisions.

There is enemies to lovers we can get behind (Wesley & Lilah) and there is enemies to lovers that should never have been thought of. I can’t believe anyone thinks Buffy’s relationship with Spike is not only okay but the best for her. He tried to SA her. He built a robot in her likeness. But the worst thing this show probably did in regards to this relationship was make Buffy say Spike knew it was wrong to SA her, that she forgives him. The freaking insanity.

They made this strong woman who kicked arse and subvert gender norms apologize for her attacker’s behaviour then bam lovey dovey feelings. This is not okay because unlike 243 year old vampires SA victims actually exist. I am so mad.

Imagine watching Buffy and being a victim of SA and seeing this shit glorified. My anger is truly endless.

And before I forget Buffy is in her 20s when she enters a relationship with Spike. Spike is over a century old or did the all so problematic age gap cease to exist because Buffy is not a minor anymore. You know what that is? That is the same excuse real life predatory men use when they wait and start dating young girls at 18.

If the gap is wrong for Angel then it is wrong for Spike too but as this is again vampire media it doesn’t freaking matter. Oh my days.

Spike throws it in Buffy’s face constantly that he got a soul for her. My guy if you have to consistently remind her that you did something for her then you are not being the decent man some people are making you out to be. You are being a manipulative arse.

Also, I hate hate that Spike went to Africa to get a soul. Do the writers know how big this continent is? 54 countries and all they said was Africa. Which brings me to the very real racist stereotype of the magic/mystical black man who knows and can fix anything. I know he got it from a demon but why couldn’t the demon have been in fucking England. He is from there after all.

Africa and the Roma being how two vampires get their souls back is just icky to me because it’s all references to POCs.

S6 as a whole is deranged as hell. What? Buffy should have staked Spike so fast after that bathroom scene. No people he was not acting out of character. He is literally a demon, not some cute little kitten. It is not okay to pretend that scene didn’t happen for the sake of shipping two characters.

That said I like the cookie dough speech. And love how Angel & Buffy’s first and last scenes had Angel giving her something to protect her. They weren’t exactly healthy but they weren’t whatever the one was.

And the balcony scene…you know what I am just gonna stop here because it’s late and I wish I watched Chosen in the morning.

#btvs #buffy summers #angel #bangel #anti spuffy #yes I created a blog to vent about Buffy

[aphrditee]

I love it when spuffies try to downplay Buffy saying “I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life.” As Buffy referring to having “loved” Angel, past tense. If that were true she would have followed it with “I loved him and I put a sword through his heart because I had to.” The End. That completes the past tense, feeling + action. BUT she didn’t. She followed it with “I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life.” It’s literally past and present tense. Past, reflecting on what she felt when she was forced to kill him. Present, what she feels about him currently as the love of her life.

Do you know how insane that line is? If I were a hater (and failed English in school) I’d cling to “loved” too because Buffy literally confirms in a single scene that Angel is, and will always be, the love of her life. YEARS AFTER THEIR BREAKUP. After Riley. After Spike. It’s Angel. It’ll always be Angel.

#btvs #bangel #I fucking love this scene #also FUCK xander harris #anti spuffy #sorta

[becomingpart2]

the contrast between how angel is treated in season 3 of btvs vs how spike is treated in season 7 of btvs is unreal. like angel’s souless actions actually have lasting consequences and the characters are allowed to have genuine reactions to them vs how spike is woobified and excused and none of his actions have lasting consequences and robin wood is vilified for wanting revenge on spike.

Ugh, I know! It's ridiculous. Spike gets so many narrative devices used to absolve him: the chip, the soul, the first making him kill people... there's probably more that I'm not remembering.

And sure, some characters voice their opinions against him but like you said, those objections have no lasting impact. Buffy isn't allowed to process any of her trauma from the previous season and instead is put in the place of being HIS protector. She brings him into her house where a bunch of teenage girls are living and everybody is made to swallow any objections they might have and just deal with it.

And some people might say that she "forgave" angel too easily about s2 too but I think the big difference there is that buffy loved angel before he became souless. She felt responsible for him losing his soul and then for killing him. When he comes back into her life, she has conflicting feelings about it, which is understandable for someone in her position but everyone's objections are also valid and they are not forced to just accept angel back in their circle because buffy feels like it. Angel spends most of the season separated from the rest of the scoobies and he's only there when there is a need outside of their control.

Buffy's feelings are finally addressed in Amends. Do I think her trauma could've been better addressed/talked about? Yes. But I don't think s3 as it stands tries to erase what happened.

On the other hand, Buffy didn't have a previous healthy relationship with spike prior to the stuff in s6. The stuff in s6 is all their relationship is by s7, so it makes no narrative sense not to address what happened there.

#anonymous #answered #btvs #anti spuffy

[angelustheimmortal]

Buffy fans when Warren makes sex robots, rapes, acts entitled to sex= what an awful misogynist.

Buffy fans when Spike makes sex robots, rapes, acts entitled to sex and murders women-poor little wooobie Spike. Why doesn't his rape victim do more to make people forgive him.

#anti spike #anti spuffy

[buffysummers]

I accidentally ran into some discourse on twitter about how terrible the scoobies were to buffy in empty places and I agree with that but then people started going on about how spike was the only one to ever have buffy's back and the only who understood her and that he was better than her friends/giles/dawn ever were. I just feel like that isn't true and framing spike as buffy's protector feels wrong after season 6. and also, people somehow claim that angel would have sided with the scoobies

First of all, Angel would have NEVER sided with the Scoobies lol. He would have understood the immense amount of pressure Buffy is under being the leader and he would've given her the grace she needed to sort that out. Also, Angel is quite literally always on Buffy's side. There's only one instance where he isn't, but the circumstances are special. I don't really feel like going into those circumstances because they aren't relevant to this ask but if anyone is interested feel free to send another ask.

But Spike never truly understood Buffy. For so long, he saw her as The Slayer, a conquest. A woman that he needed to overpower, control, and "break" to make himself feel adequate and like a man. Then once he "fell in love" with her, that honestly didn't change much. It was all about winning her approval and acceptance so that he could have her. She was always some kind of prize to him, a prize that was majorly tied up in his self-worth and mommy issues.

Season seven is frustrating for a lot of reasons, but when it tried to trick me into thinking Spike really knew Buffy and that they were so close and had all these long talks I was just like.... where? I know that things can happen offscreen, but considering what we saw of their relationship in season six (and how they literally never talked), we needed to see more of these supposed conversations that they had. Mind you, I have no interest in seeing these conversations, but from a narrative perspective, we NEEDED it. The writing was just so weak.

I think Spike understood, to some degree, the allure of being The Slayer and having power rooted in darkness. But Faith understood that better, and Angel *also* understood that. He is not special.

Whenever Spike told Buffy he understood her, it was merely a tactic he used to manipulate her into having sex with him. He NEVER understood her. He simply weaponized her self-loathing from the insane amount of grief and pain she was going through after she was brought back to life.

As for what you said about people saying Spike always had Buffy's back, I talk about that a lot here.

#twitter is the worst lol #anonymous #answered #anti spuffy #anti spike

[davidboreanaz]

just seen a spuffy say that bangel’s 7x22 kiss was fanservice like spuffy‘s whole relationship wasn’t 💀💀

#bangel #buffy the vampire slayer #anti spuffy #angel #angel the series #btvs #ats #buffy summers #angel btvs #not my gif #buffy 7x22 #buffy season 7 #buffy x angel #angel x buffy #soulmates #otp: always my angel #sarah michelle gellar #david boreanaz

[lecoindecachou]

Buffy was only ever with Spike because she was trying to hurt herself, he was 100% a symptom of her depression post-coming back from the dead and it's canon that she never loved him, y'all can die mad about it.

#anti spuffy #anti spike #buffy the vampire slayer #buffy summers #you can tell most spuffy shippers don't even like her #they're just spike fangirls who use her as a masturbatory self-insert #and constantly insult her for being 'mean' and 'a bitch' to their blorbo

[buffy-targaryen]

Interesting to me that someone would call Angel a basic white man who didn’t deserve his redemption or his own show whilst also propping up Sponge as some sort of hero who is deserving of his redemption and own show and-

I’m just saying there’s a hypocrisy there is all 🙄

#my thoughts #I shouldn’t go into tags and notes on posts #I’m not in a good enough mood to deal with the double standards of spiffies today #anti spike #anti spuffy

[liam-summers]

Just got to season 6 of my btvs rewatch and I just want to say that the sp*ffy sex scenes are so much more rancid and depressing than I remember. I feel like I want to claw my skin off watching them, I’m so disgusted. There is nothing hot about this and there’s so much of it, like was all of this necessary?! WE GET IT, THEY’RE FUCKING.

#Buffy is dead behind the eyes in like 95% of these scenes #and she hates herself so much #I feel so sorry for her #😭 #I can’t wait to get through these 7 episodes #anti spuffy

[blueberrysconematurity]

Buffy was not nor will she ever be in love with Spike.

#buffy the vampire slayer #buffyverse #anti spuffy #bangel

[aphrditee]

The Buffy fandom is so fucked lmao like the amount of unreal, bias and dishonest texts I’ve read through. No surprise they mostly come from sp*ffies.

They have this thing where they jump through fucking HOOPS to defend Spike— you know — the guy who actually attempts to r*pe Buffy or Faith WHO LITERALLY SLEPT WITH RILEY IN BUFFY’S BODY.

But you know, Angel is the bad guy for being a trope favored in vampire media. How dare this 200+ year old demon sleep with a 17 year old slayer. What a goofy ass sentence. Newsflash this is a supernatural show— thank GOD there aren’t any REAL 200+ vampires hooking up with teenagers. It’s so ridiculous and bitter.

What Buffy and Angel had was pure love, an honest love that they both sacrificed for the greater good. It wasn’t nasty, angry and full of hatred and disgust…unlike that other ship. Buffy loved him and he loved her and I think it drives people up the wall because it’s true. Not to forget they are canonical soulmates.

+ I’m also convinced that part of the fandom doesn’t actually like Buffy Summers because of the amount of angry “Buffy treated Spike like shit” posts. Like who GIVES A FUCK? What about Buffy?

#rewatching Buffy #it was a mistake going through the tag #unloading my annoyance #buffy summers #anti spuffy #bangel

[desicat-writer]

I noticed you're harsher on Bangel (which is better) than Spuffy. Which is stupid since Spike was a stalker and willing to rape her.

I don't particularly care if Bangel is better or worse than Spuffy.

Canon punishes Spike for his behavior a lot of the times in the same episode. It's important to me in the ye old times of one episode a week era, that characters who behave badly experience consequences for their behavior immediately.

Example for Spike is when he is caught sniffing around Buffy's room, Riley kicks him out into the sun. The blanket is an afterthought.

Example for Angelus's big consequence was getting stabbed and sent to hell. This was after episodes of killing and tormenting. What specifically was wrong gets lost with that much time in between.

For Angel we see him doing the best he can and he has the best intentions. But his behavior is still grooming behavior. (He can see her but she can't see him). The narrative never calls out how destructive this can be to a teenage girl. Or an adult woman. To me this makes Angel feel unsafe to watch at times. Especially before I could articulate the dangers of a groomer who didn't realize they were being abusive.

Bangel has an unparalleled intensity to it. S2 is my favorite season for a reason. Angel's grows into a person that tells Buffy about his choices even if he does not include her in the decision making process. That is a sign of respect and care from him.

As far as why I knock Angel more than Spike? Spike feels safer to watch because of the immediacy of his consequences. Also In general people are more willing to have the complex conversation about Spike. I get to work through the reactions I've had when Spike made that "dimpled knees" comment in harsh light of day.

That has not happened with Angel. Usually with Angel the reaction is black or white and I have the experience of being shut down from a longer conversation. So I'm here on my soap box, having it with myself.

#spuffy #bangel #but also #anti spuffy #anti bangel #btvs meta #viewer experience #spoilers #i hate and love all ships #just shut up and kiss already #or stab eachother