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hainethehero · 1 month

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So I made the mistake of stumbling onto the NOT STEVE ROGERS FRIENDLY tag today and..

You have to be a special type of delusional to be this obsessed with a character you don't like!??

Over 2k fics have the tag and are almost entirely Tony Stark-centered fics. I'm assuming these are the "fans" who totally buy into the MCU canon and don't know any other Captain America lore outside of what Feige and Whedon have done. Or, they're the "fans" who refuse to understand the politics behind Steve's character and how he was inherently undermined throughout the entire ten years of the MCU by the directors and writers for most of the films.

Because the arguments in most of these fics for being "not Steve rogers friendly" are really surface level shit like:

1) "Steve refused to sign the Accords and broke up the Avengers" (he was right & he didn't break them up, an overemotional Tony did when he refused to listen to Bucky's side of the story).

2) Steve fought Tony and almost killed him (yeah, like Tony didn't blast Bucky's arm off and shoot his repulsor rays directly at Steve).

3)Steve is homophobic (y'all are just making up reasons to hate this man atp)

4)Steve is racist (Steve hated racists & you'd know that if you read the comics, or you guys are just that deluded that you're making Steve racist & trying to project it as canon and therefore a "reasonable" explanation as to why you hate him)

5)Blaming Steve for Rhodey's accident (WHICH WAS TEAM TONY'S FAULT!)

6)YALL, THEY MADE STEVE THE BAD GUY IN A BROCK RUMLOW/BUCKY FIC! I stg I cannot make this shit up💀 Steve's bad for wanting Bucky to be Bucky again, but somehow Brock's the good guy for wanting Bucky to be the Soldier...

Steve left Bucky for Peggy (we'll get to this soon)

There's a hundred more irrational reasons for the Steve Rogers hate, but let me get to the WORST part.

THERE ARE BUCKY STANS WHO ARE ANTI-STEVE ROGERS.

And I'm sorry, no. I don't accept that you love Bucky Barnes but hate the one person he loves the most in the world.

They argued in a couple fics that "Bucky also went rogue after Siberia but he didn't want to associate with Steve, Nat & the rest of the team- WHO HELPED RESCUE BUCKY & EVENTUALLY EXONERATE HIM- but rather, he went off on his own & eventually Tony finds him, they hash it out and become friends to lovers."

Helppp???? Wdym Bucky isn't gonna stick with the one man he's been keeping diaries about to try and get back his memories? But he'll go to the one guy that re-traumatized him by blowing out his arm again?

Not only that, but Bucky absolutely hates Steve in some of these fics and the reason will be, "he left Bucky to go back to Peggy." Like, you cannot be a serious fan if you're still going with the Endgame canon. For a majority of us, we recognize Endgame as being nothing but terrible writing and mischaracterizations. Why are yall not analyzing and interpreting media critically? The MCU has never been on Steve's side and have always diminished his character in an attempt to make Tony the ultimate hero of the OG 6. Don't yall know the discourse? It's embarrassing atp.

And this is my stance on the entire thing: there's nothing wrong with writing fics about characters you don't necessarily like or aren't interested in. It's OKAY if you don't like Steve Rogers- but you've gotta be rational about him, instead of hateful. Most, if not all of these "anti-steve" fics are written in bad faith. Bad understanding of the character and pure, shameless mischaracterizations which just makes these types of fics fickle and weak- hilarious to read though cos that Brock one had me deadddd😭💀.

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the-seas-song · 3 months

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Tumblr is being extremely weird right now and won't let me answer @transexualpirate's ask about why I hate Tony/Pepper. This post is my answer to him:

Hi! Sorry for the late reply, my life got crazy.

The short answer: Pepper emotionally abuses (and slut-shames) Tony from IM2 onward.

The long answer: Pepper's behavior is extremely subtle, and a lot of people miss it. Unfortunately, it's been so normalized (at least here in the US) that a lot of other people will deny – and even defend! it. However, I grew up with family members like her and I have a background in psych.

I have to start this off with a disclaimer: I CAN'T be objective/un-triggered when talking about Pepper Potts or Peggy Carter (we don't shoot at someone just because we have a crush on them and they kissed (got assaulted by) someone else!)

Anyway, back to Pepper. …. I thought I could write out a full analysis without getting too triggered, but I can't. So I've included links to some great articles that cover the nuances of emotional abuse:

https://nycchildtherapy.info/emotional-abuse/ (Pepper checks almost every box on this list)

(scroll down to the 4 horseman) https://www.marriage-family-counseling.com/good-marriage.html

Personally I feel like the term 'gaslighting' gets overused, but it's definitely applicable here:

How do you know that you're being gaslighted? A victim experiences increased self-doubt as the gaslighter insists that what he or she remembers, thinks, and feels is wrong. The manipulative individual will introduce lies in more sensitive arenas, aiming to disrupt and distort foundational aspects of the victim’s being, wearing them down, establishing confusion, and forcing them to rely on the gaslighter’s version of reality.

Passive-aggressiveness is just as insidious as gaslighting:

Passive aggressive people take genuine pleasure in frustrating others. They are masters at getting others to act out their angry feelings--to explode and appear crazy--while the passive aggressive person sits back and watches the emotional outburst with satisfaction, total control, and always with their own poise intact.

Here's the transcript (and my commentary in [brackets]) from IM3 (a transcript can only do so much, because a lot of this is tone of voice as well as word choice):

[later Pepper returns to Tony's home, as she gets out of the car she sees a large stuffed rabbit outside the house that Tony has bought for her as a gift, she walks inside]

Pepper Potts: I'm sorry I'm late. I was... What the...? What is that?!

[she notices Tony sat in his Iron Man suit on the couch]

Pepper Potts: You're wearing this in the house now? What is that, like Mark 15? [criticism and sarcasm]

[Tony looks at the small number marked 42 on the suit]

Tony Stark: Uh...yeah. Something like that. You know everybody needs a hobby.

Pepper Potts: Oh, and you have to wear your hobby in the living room? [passive-aggressiveness]

[Tony rises and walks toward her]

Tony Stark: Just breakin' it in. You know, it's always a little pinchy in the gooey bag at first, so.

[Tony shakes his ass and Pepper laughs]

Tony Stark: Oh hey, did you see your Christmas present?

Pepper Potts: Yes, I did. I...I don't know how I could have missed that Christmas present. Is it gonna fit through the door? [more sarcasm and passive-aggressiveness]

Tony Stark: Well actually, uh...it's a good question. I got a team of guys comin' tomorrow, they're gonna blow out that wall.

Pepper Potts: Okay.

Tony Stark: So, uh...tense? Good day?

[Tony walks up behind her and starts massaging her shoulders]

Tony Stark: Ooh shoulders, a little knotty. Naughty girl. I don't wanna harp on this, but did you like the custom rabbit?

Pepper Potts: Did I like it? Tony Stark: Nailed it, right? Pepper Potts: Wow. I appreciate the thought very much. [even more sarcasm and passive-aggressiveness; withholding the validation Tony's seeking]

[Pepper turns to face Tony, she rises from her seat and stands close to him]

Pepper Potts: So why don't you lift up that face mask and give me a kiss? [not only takes control of/manipulates the situation but makes it physical/sexual]

[Tony knocks the metal helmet on his head]

Tony Stark: Huh. Yup, dammit. No can do. You wanna just kiss it on the...

Pepper Potts: Uh-huh.

Tony Stark: The facial slit?

Pepper Potts: Well, why don't I run down to the garage and see if I can't find a crowbar to shimmy that thing open?

Tony Stark: Crowbar. Yeah.

[Pepper starts walking towards Tony's lab]

Tony Stark: Oh, except there's been a...uh...a radiation leak.

Pepper Potts: I'll take my chances.

Tony Stark: That's risky.

[Pepper walks down the stairs to Tony's lab]

Tony Stark: At least let me get you like a Hazmat suit or a Geiger counter or something like that.

[Pepper sees Tony is in fact not in his Iron Man suit, but in the lab exercising as he remotely controls the suit, which follows Pepper into the lab]

Tony Stark: Busted.

Pepper Potts: This is a new level of lame. [explicit criticism and contempt]

Tony Stark: Sorry.

[Pepper notices the food tray in the corner]

Pepper Potts: You ate without me? Already? On date night? [passive-aggressive criticism, even though she was the one late and didn't call ahead]

Tony Stark: [referring to Mark 42 suit] He was just...

Pepper Potts: You mean you?

Tony Stark: Well, yeah. I just mean we were just...just hosting you -

[Pepper scoffs] [passive-aggressive contempt]

Tony Stark: -while I finished up a little work.

Pepper Potts: Uh-huh.

Tony Stark: And yes, I had a quick bite. I didn't know if you were comin' home or if you were having drinks with Aldrich Killian.

[Mark 42 suit turns its face toward her]

Pepper Potts: What?

Tony Stark: What?

Pepper Potts: Aldrich Killian? What are you checking up on me? [defensive accusation]

Tony Stark: Happy was concerned. [THE TRUTH]

Pepper Potts: No, you're spying on me. [gaslighting]

Tony Stark: I wasn't...

Pepper Potts: I'm going to bed. [Pepper turns and starts walking off] [passive-aggressive power play]

Tony Stark: Hold on. Come on. Pep.

[as Pepper starts walking upstairs]

Tony Stark: Hey, I admit it! My fault. Sorry. [NO ITS NOT]

[Pepper stops and looks at him]

Tony Stark: I'm a piping hot mess. It's been going on for a while, I haven't said anything.

[Pepper walks back down]

Tony Stark: Nothing's been the same since New York.

Pepper Potts: Oh really? Well, I didn't notice that, at all. [sarcasm]

Tony Stark: You experience things and then they're over and you still can't explain 'em. Gods, aliens, other dimensions. I...I'm just a man in a can. The only reason I haven't cracked up is probably because you moved in. Which is great. I love you, I'm lucky. But, honey, I can't sleep. You go to bed, I come down here. I do what I know, I tinker. [he pauses for a moment and sits down] [lots of healthy I statements!]

Tony Stark: But threat is imminent, and I have to protect the one thing that I can't live without. That's you. My suits, they're uh...

Pepper Potts: Machines. [gaslighting]

Tony Stark: They're part of me.

Pepper Potts: A distraction. [GASLIGHTING]

Tony Stark: Maybe.

[Pepper walks towards Tony and they hold each other. He rests his head against her chest and she removes his headband that controls the Iron Man suits]

Pepper Potts: I'm gonna take a shower.

Tony Stark: Okay.

[Pepper turns to walk off, then stops and looks at him]

Pepper Potts: And you're gonna join me. [sexual control/manipulation instead of validation and comfort]

Tony Stark: Better.

[later that night, as Tony and Pepper are sleeping, Tony starts having nightmares about when he was in New York with The Avengers and had to get rid of the nuke in space, Pepper wakes and starts to shake Tony awake]

Pepper Potts: Tony! Tony! Tony! Tony...

[suddenly Pepper gets grabbed and shoved off Tony by Mark 42 suit, this wakes Tony who commands the suit]

Tony Stark: Power down!

[the suit shuts down and Tony hits it making its pieces fall apart, he looks over at Pepper who is in shock]

Tony Stark: I must have called it in my sleep. That's not supposed to happen. I'll recalibrate the sensors. Can we just...just let me...just let me catch my breath, okay?

[Pepper rises and starts to leave]

Tony Stark: Don't go, alright? Pepper?

Pepper Potts: I'm going to sleep downstairs. Tinker with that. [verbal attack and gaslighting]

[Pepper leaves the room]

Pepper has every right to be scared and upset here. She does not have the right to take it out on Tony – especially since he is obviously still in the middle of his ptsd episode. Even then, his immediate response is to take responsibility and explain the actions he's going to take to keep it from happening again. This is incredible! Most people aren't able to do this in a normal setting, much less during a ptsd episode.

And we know Tony's still going through it, because he then desperately begs her not to leave. And not only does she leave, she does it while blaming him and Iron Man. But Iron Man didn't create Tony's trauma. The wormhole did. The Iron Man suits are the only security blanket Tony currently has.

Lets contrast this with Steve. MCU!Steve (and Stony) are not nearly as abrasive or antagonistic as people make them out to be. In fact, the reason why Steve's “Oh God, Tony! Every time. Every time I think you're seeing things the right way...” and Tony's “And you’ve been a complete idiot!” hit so hard is because they don't normally talk this way. They don't insult or verbally attack each other (at least, not since the helicarrier)

AOU is a perfect example:

Bruce Banner: This is insane.

Steve Rogers: JARVIS was the first line of defense. He would've shut Ultron down, it makes sense.

Bruce Banner: No, Ultron could've assimilated Jarvis. This isn't strategy, this is...rage.

[Thor barges in and grabs hold of Stark by his throat, holding him up]

Clint Barton: Woah, woah, woah! It's going around.

Tony Stark: [to Thor] Come on. Use your words, buddy.

Thor: I have more than enough words to describe you, Stark.

Steve Rogers: Thor! The Legionnaire.

[Thor lets go of Stark]

Thor: Trail went cold about a hundred miles out but it's headed north, and it has the scepter. Now we have to retrieve it, again.

Natasha Romanoff: The genie's out of that bottle. Clear and present is Ultron.

Dr. Helen Cho: I don't understand. You built this program. Why is it trying to kill us?

[Stark starts laughing, Banner subtly shakes his head at him to get him to stop]

Thor: You think this is funny?

Tony Stark: No. It's probably not, right? Is this very terrible? Is it so... is it so... it is. It's so terrible.

Thor: This could've been avoided if you hadn't played with something you don't understand.

Tony Stark: No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It is funny. It's a hoot that you don't get why we need this.

Bruce Banner: Tony, maybe this might not be the time to--

Tony Stark: Really?! That's it? You just roll over, show your belly, every time somebody snarls.

Bruce Banner: Only when I've created a murder bot.

Tony Stark: We didn't. We weren't even close. Were we close to an interface?

Steve Rogers: Well, you did something right. And you did it right here. The Avengers were supposed to be different than SHIELD.

Tony Stark: Anybody remember when I carried a nuke through a wormhole?

James Rhodes: No, it's never come up.

Tony Stark: Saved New York?

James Rhodes: Never heard that.

Tony Stark: Recall that? A hostile alien army came charging through a hole in space. We're standing three hundred feet below it. We're the Avengers. We can bust arms dealers all the live long day, but, that up there? That's... that's the end game. How were you guys planning on beating that?

Steve Rogers: Together.

Tony Stark: We'll lose.

Steve Rogers: Then we'll do that together, too.

[Stark looks at him for a moment before turning away]

Steve Rogers: Thor's right. Ultron's calling us out. And I'd like to find him before he's ready for us. The world's a big place. Let's start making it smaller.

I bolded the verbal attacks, you statements, and sarcasm – all of which come from Thor and Rhodey. Steve's angry and feeling triggered (he is obviously flashing back to SHIELDRA and Howard and Peggy's betrayal), but he's not using abusive speech patterns to express his anger.

[Steve and Tony are chopping wood outside Barton's house]

Tony Stark: Thor didn't say where he was going for answers?

Steve Rogers: Sometimes my teammates don't tell me things. [looks at Barton with his kids] I was kind of hoping Thor would be the exception.

Tony Stark: Yeah, give him time. We don't know what the Maximoff kid showed him.

Steve Rogers: “Earth's Mightiest Heroes.” Pulled us apart like cotton candy.

Tony Stark: Seems like you walked away all right.

Steve Rogers: Is that a problem?

Tony Stark: I don't trust a guy without a dark side. Call me old fashioned.

Steve Rogers: Well let's just say you haven't seen it yet.

Tony Stark: You know Ultron is trying to tear us apart, right?

Steve Rogers: Well I guess you'd know. Whether you tell us is a bit of a question.

Tony Stark: Banner and I were doing research.

Steve Rogers: That would affect the team.

Tony Stark: That would end the team. Isn't that the mission? Isn't that the “why” we fight, so we can end the fight, so we get to go home?

Steve Rogers: [rips log apart] Every time someone tries to win a war before it starts, innocent people die. Every time.

Tony is the one who escalates the conversation here (“Seems like you walked away all right.”) – Steve's angry, but his tone is conversational and he's opening up to Tony. His response to Tony is sarcastic (“Well I guess you'd know. Whether you tell us is a bit of a question.”); but it's still direct, and he still isn't using any insults. He's expressing his anger in a mostly healthy way.

[Steve and the twins turn up at the lab]

Steve Rogers: I'm gonna say this once.

Tony Stark: How about “nonce”?

Steve Rogers: Shut it down!

Tony Stark: Nope, not gonna happen.

Steve Rogers: You don't know what you're doing.

Bruce Banner: And you do? She's not in your head?

Wanda Maximoff: I know you're angry.

Bruce Banner: Oh, we're way past that. I could choke the life out of you and never change a shade.

Steve Rogers: Banner, after everything that's happened--

Tony Stark: That's nothing compared to what's coming!

Wanda Maximoff: You don't know what's in there!

Steve Rogers: This isn't a game--

Wanda Maximoff: The creature--

[Pietro uses his speed to destroy the lab equipment]

Pietro Maximoff: No, no. Go on. You were saying?

[Barton shoots the glass Pietro is standing to stand to destroy it, and Pietro falls through]

Wanda Maximoff: Pietro!

Clint Barton: What? You didn't see that coming?

Tony Stark: I'm rerouting the upload.

Bruce Banner: [to Wanda, as he grabs her] Go ahead, piss me off. [After some fighting, Thor enters and hits the cradle with his hammer, sending a powerful bolt of lightning through it that brings the body to life] Wait! [they all look in shock at the new entity]

[Vision launches himself at Thor, who throws him at a window, but he catches himself right before hitting it.]

Vision: [In JARVIS' voice, as everyone gathers around him] I'm sorry, that was...odd. [to Thor] Thank you.

Steve Rogers: Thor, you helped create this?

Thor: I've had a vision. A whirlpool that sucks in all hope of life and at its center is that. [he points to the gem inside Vision's head]

Bruce Banner: What, the gem?

Thor: It's the Mind Stone. It's one of the six Infinity Stones, the greatest power in the universe, unparalleled in its destructive capabilities.

Steve Rogers: Then why would you bring it to...

Thor: Because Stark is right.

Bruce Banner: Oh, it's definitely the end times.

Thor: The Avengers cannot defeat Ultron.

Vision: Not alone.

Steve Rogers: Why does your “vision” sound like JARVIS?

Tony Stark: We... reconfigured JARVIS' matrix to create something new.

Steve Rogers: I think I've had my fill of new.

Vision: You think I'm a child of Ultron?

Steve Rogers: You're not?

Vision: I'm not Ultron. I'm not JARVIS. I am... I am.

Wanda Maximoff: I looked in your head and saw annihilation.

Vision: Look again.

Clint Barton: Yeah. Her seal of approval means jack to me.

Thor: Their powers, the horrors in our heads, Ultron himself, they all came from the Mind Stone, and they're nothing compared to what it can unleash. But with it on our side...

Steve Rogers: Is it? Are you? On our side?

Bruce is the one who insults Tony here (and poor Steve just wants to understand what the hell is happening).

Back to Pepper. A lot of people forget that Rhodey was the only one who wanted Tony to grow and change:

James Rhodes: You don't respect yourself, so I know you don't respect me.

Tony Stark: I respect you.

[cut]

James Rhodes: You are constitutionally incapable of being responsible.

[cut]

James Rhodes: That's what I'm talking about. When I get up in the morning and I'm putting on my uniform, you know what I recognize? I see in that mirror that every person that's got this uniform on got my back!

Tony Stark: Hey, you know what? I'm not like you. I'm not cut out...

James Rhodes: No, no. You don't have to be like me! But you're more than what you are. And you don't see it.

Tony Stark: Can you excuse me if I'm a bit distracted here?

James Rhodes: No! You can't be distracted right now! Listen to me!

Contrast this with Pepper and Happy:

Tony Stark: Same drill. They've been dealing under the table, and I'm going to stop them. I'm going to find my weapons and destroy them.

Pepper Potts: Tony, you know that I would help you with anything, but I cannot help you if you're going to start all of this again.

Tony Stark: There is nothing except this. There's no art opening. There is no benefit. There is nothing to sign. There is the next mission and nothing else.

Pepper Potts: Is that so? Well, then, I quit. [Pepper throws the lock chip on the table.]

Tony Stark: You stood by my side all these years while I reaped the benefits of destruction. And now that I'm trying to protect the people that I put in harm's way, you're going to walk out?

Pepper Potts: You're going to kill yourself, Tony. I'm not going to be a part of it.

Tony Stark: I shouldn't be alive, unless it was for a reason. I'm not crazy, Pepper. I just finally know what I have to do. And I know in my heart that it's right.

Pepper Potts: [Pepper picks the lock drive back up.] You're all I have, too, you know.

And:

Happy Hogan: Yeah, I miss you too. But the way it used to be. Now you're off with the 'superfriends', I don't know what's going on with you anymore. The world's getting weird...

When we are in a relationship with someone (it doesn't matter what kind) and they grow and change, we are left with the choice of either growing ourselves, or walking away/growing distant with that person.

Pepper does neither. She uses emotional abuse to try to control Tony and manipulate him into acting the way she wants him to act – giving up Iron Man and living a selfish civilian life as her kept genius.

This is in direct contrast to Rhodey, Yinsen, and Steve, who see that Tony has had the potential to be “Earth's Best Defender” all along.

#Tony Stark #anti Pepper Pots #anti Pepperony #Steve meta #Stony #Mine #Tony

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