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lopposting · 5 months

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translation notes on deleted lines + why translation is truly so important

[long post]

Hello everyone... As I'm sure you've seen, the deleted lines here that were leaked have been a wrecking ball on both this fanbase and my heart!!! (thank you to the users who put that together.)

OKOKOK more translation notes!!! This is a little too out of my level in Korean for me tbh, but I'll try my best to explain my point of view.

기억은 없지만 저 역시 당신의 아들임니다. I may not remember, but I'm still your son.

Pino is using the form Dangshin (당신) here and not father (as in 기억은 없지만 저 역시 아버지의 아들입니다?), probably because he isn't directly talking to Geppetto, and it's a general formal version of "you".

Grammatical notes aside and getting to the main point, this line shows that translation is SO finicky and SO important

This line is such a completely crazy example of how translation can change an entire story; how one word can make something entirely different.

Let's look at that line with the two different interpretations.

기억은 없지만 저 역시 당신의 아들입니다. I may not remember, but I'm still your son.

Alternatively, where 역시 (yeokshi) is interpreted as "TOO":

기억은 없지만 저 역시 당신의 아들입니다. I may not have [his] memories, but I'm your son, too.

Here's the thing... "but I'm still your son, too"...

that "too" changes EVERYTHING. That little three letter word, at the end of that sentence changes everything, and has the power to steer an entire story. Because why would he need to add the "too" modifier if Geppetto only had one single child?

At my level, I cannot say that it's one or the other with 100% certainty. Translation always requires some form of interpretation, and either one is "accurate". But, as you know, a translation being "accurate" is often not even enough. [note: In the process of writing this post, and giving it some thought. I would say that yes, considering the context, the second translation is more accurate (because in this context he is referring to Carlo's memories when he uses the word "역시") ]

Deleted lines are deleted for a reason

Over the many days I've been deliberating over this (lol Lies has taken me heart and mind), I've realized that maybe I've gotten caught up in a bit of survivorship bias. As in, I think I was focusing on the content of the deleted lines, and not that they were deleted in the first place.

[Among other reasons,]

I think these lines were likely deleted because the (almighty gods) Developers wanted to keep it more ambiguous and up to interpretation whether or not P is Carlo. It's a very intriguing choice. That being said, I really appreciate that people shared this so we can see the creative decisions that were even made in the first place.

I'm reminded of Antonia's letter, because I still find it that profound. (she really was the best ;_;) When she sees Pino, she doesn't mention carlo at all to Pino, lady Antonia just treats him exactly as he is.

And her final letter is so touching. Perhaps guessing what complicated emotions Pino might be feeling about his relation to Carlo.. she tells him, not that he is or isn't Carlo, but that

"Whether you are that child or not -"

he is worthy of love and that he is precious.

"Whether you are Carlo or not, You are precious to me."

Director Choi's message on the Special Release Vinyl:

This is from discogs, the quality is hard to read so I've transcribed this portion here.

Lies of P harbors a plethora of concealed enigmas and artful subtleties, and there are no wrong interpretations to them. Piece together the scattered fragments and unravel the puzzle to craft a narrative of what is true to you. ... With sincerest regards, Lies of P Director CHOI JIWON

Seems to directly confirm that some things being left up for interpretation is by design. Very very neat!! I love it!! :)

#lies of p #LOP #liesofp #lies of p spoilers #antonia #translation notes #just ramblin

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ash-arts-a-thing · 13 days

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Chapter 6 event notes are finally here.

Sorry this took so long, it seems this was the chapter people were most excited for, but it’s finally finished. I didn’t have a beta reader this time so I hope they’re still okay.

[Character Notes] [Chapters 1-3] [Chapters 4&5]

Specter Carlo AU Chapter 6

• Upon entering Rosa Isabella Street in a lie playthrough Gemini will still have his regular dialogue, but there will also now be new dialogue with Carlo.

Carlo: “The Opera House, huh? My… friend, loved the Opera House. He was big into theatre.”

Gemini: “He was? Did you two ever go there together? What were the shows like?!”

Carlo: “We… We never got the chance to go.”

Gemini: “Oh. I’m sorry.”

Carlo: “Don’t worry about it. Please.”

• The White Lady will not be aware of Carlo.

• Upon the White Lady’s death Carlo will comment: “What a waste. She had such a beautiful voice when she was still able to sing.”

• Julien will not be aware of Carlo.

• Carlo will have different dialogue depending on whether Julien was lied to or not:

Truth: “Would it have killed you to show the guy a little compassion? Puppet or not, he seemed to really love his wife.”

Lie: “Do you think a human and a puppet can really have a relationship like that? Hmm… whatever makes them happy.”

• Carlo will be unable to comment while Pinocchio travels up the road toward the Opera House due to the over abundance of fire.

• Upon entering the Opera House, Carlo will be as active as he was at Krat Grand Central Station in the floors reflections, though the inconsistencies from Chapter 1 will be far more obvious rather than subtle

• The first thing Carlo will say, when he gets the chance to, is about the Mad Clown that Pinocchio had just defeated, “I don’t know what was going through their heads when they designed that because that is NOT child friendly.”

• Once Pinocchio is first inflicted with disrupt Carlo will comment: “Be more cautious with the puppets around here, a lot of them have ergo disrupting attacks. Getting hit with those feels… bad, to say the least.”

• After defeating the first opera spider Carlo will comment: “I think this might be my least favourite puppet design.” If it’s a truth playthrough he will add: “Hmmm… maybe my second least favourite.”

• Adelina is not aware of Carlo, her dialogue remains unchanged, thought he will comment on her both after talking to her the first time and if she is given the apple.

• After the first conversation Carlo will say “Isn’t… this who the White Lady was talking about? She thought Adelina…”

• If Adelina was given the apple Carlo will say, “Hope she enjoys that. I don’t think there’s another apple left in all of Krat at this point.”

• If Adelina is not given the apple Carlo will say, “I’m pretty sure you don’t eat so what on earth are you saving that for. Just give her the damn fruit.”

• Carlo will have new dialogue options before fighting Romeo

These dialogue options are:

“Would you ever go to a show here?”

Carlo: “If that’s what my friend wanted, and we had the money to, I would’ve gone with him without hesitation.”

“How can disruption hurt so much?”

Carlo: “Something to do with you ergo, I’m not the best when it comes to explaining this stuff. I just know that whatever was disrupting you could disrupt me too and it did not feel good.”

“Tell me about this boss.” (He will have multiple responses to this.)

1. [Truth] “Not sure what you expect me to tell you that you don’t already know because I don’t know jack about this thing.”

2. [Lies] “Your guess is as good as mine, so keep your guard up.”

3. [Truth] “It’s bigger than you, I’m sure.”

4. [Lies] “it’s probably going to try to throw you around like that giant cop puppet. Make sure your healed up before we go in.”

5. [Lies] “I wish this wasn’t the reason I was able to visit here for the first time.”

Battle dialogue for phase 1: King of Puppets:

1. “I didn’t like the look of that play. [Lies] It felt like a threat… or a warning.”

2. “That voice…”

3. “Wait- No I have to be hearing things.”

4. “No it can’t be him-!”

Battle dialogue for phase 2: Romeo:

• Note that Carlo will refuse to fight during phase 2, if Romeo targets him Carlo will only block.

1. “Romeo!”

2. “Please, you have to stop this- we’re not the enemy!”

3. “Don’t hurt him!” (Whether he’s talking to Romeo or P can be taken either way depending on the playthrough)

4. “Romeo you can’t keep this up, please I can’t lose you again!”

• Upon defeating Romeo a short in game cutscene will play, Romeo will drop to his knees and Carlo will rush to his side. They will then have the following dialogue:

Romeo: “You’re just as strong as I remember you being, my heart. A truly unstoppable force, you and your new puppet friend. I’m sorry it took me this long to come to my senses.”

Carlo: “Did you see yourself? You were quite literally on fire. (Carlo forces a laugh) Now let’s just… let’s get you back to the hotel. We can get you fixed up there.”

Romeo: “Oh Carlo, I don’t know if I can make it that far, you might have to- ugh- put me out of my misery.”

Carlo: “Don’t talk like that! As long as he helps us we’ll make it! He has to help us- I- please. He’s all I have left.”

• Pinocchio will now have the option to either spare or kill Romeo.

• This choice will have the most drastic consequences of the playthrough as it will cement the way Carlo views Pinocchio for the rest of the game.

• Depending on the choice a different cutscene will play out for both scenarios.

[Kill]

Pinocchio will approach the duo, blade at the ready to strike Romeo down. The tip of Pinocchio’s blade will be raised to rest upon the center of his chest, the light ‘tink’ of metal against metal could be heard for miles in the quiet of the room. Carlo will exclaim, “No! What’re you doing?! We can make it back to the Hotel, just help me get him there, please! Please!!!”

Carlo will then attempt to push Pinocchio’s blade away, but since he is the Specter his hand will harmlessly pass through the blade.

Romeo will place his hand on Carlo’s shoulder before calmly saying, “My heart, it’s okay, it’s better this way. I’ve already hurt both you and your friend, I don’t know what I’d do if I some how… killed you again.”

Carlo will then spit back, “Screw this puppet! If he kills you he’ll never be considered my ‘friend’! In fact, I’d go as far to call him a dead man!”

Romeo will get serious, his face stern as he firmly replies, “Do not hold it against him. You and I both know this is for the best.”

Carlo won’t reply, instead choosing to firmly press his lips to his boyfriends one last time. The kiss will hold for a few seconds before Romeo gasps, Pinocchio’s blade sinking into his chest far enough to pierce through his back.

Romeo will quickly go slack, sliding lifelessly off the blade before hitting the floor with a loud metallic thunk. Carlo will stare in stunned silence for a few seconds before a scream of ‘no’ will be ripped from him. If he were human, the scream would’ve caused enough strain on his vocals to draw blood. Rather than throwing himself on Romeo’s body before he vanishes, Carlo will snap to look up at Pinocchio, eyes red and waves of energy flaring off his body as he stands.

Carlo’s hands will be shaking at his sides as he hisses through clenched teeth, “You. I’ll KILL you!!”

As he lunges for Pinocchio, hands raised and aiming for the puppets neck, Carlo will vanish just as the tips of his fingers would make an attempt at contact at fair skin.

Pinocchio is then left alone as the scream of fury rings through theatre.

[Spare]

Pinocchio will approach the duo, blade at his side as he kneels in front of Romeo. His gaze will snap to Carlo as the Specter speaks, “Please. I don’t know if it will even mean anything to you, but I-,” Carlo will look to Romeo briefly before looking back, face certain and voice confident, “I love him more than life itself.”

At that Pinocchio will blink and tilt his head slightly before his gaze once again lands on Romeo. A beat will pass before he repositions his weapon in his hand, holding the majority of its handle out to Carlo. Carlo will look between him and blade before hesitantly taking it from Pinocchio’s hand.

Pinocchio will then position himself to help the other puppet up, using his legion arm to throw Romeo’s arm over his shoulders and positioning his human arm around the others waist to steady him.

Clenching his teeth and grunting in pain, Romeo will finally speak up, “Are you sure you can do this? I don’t want to slow you two down.”

Pinocchio will remain unfazed, having more than enough strength to flat out just carry Romeo. In response to the question he will nod.

Another hiss of pain, “Alright. Thank you.”

Carlo will release a shaky exhale, taking the lead in front of the two in order to fend off anything that might get in their way. Romeo will strain a laugh, saying, “I know he’ll say it later, but he’s very grateful, trust me. That’s the most emotion I’ve seen from in… quite some time.”

The scene will fade as they make their way out of the theatre doors.

From here notes will be more heavily separated between lie and truth playthroughs as the dialogue differences and interactions between Pinocchio and Carlo will be much more numerous.

[Truth]

• If Pinocchio has chosen to kill Romeo, the rest of the chapter will play out as normal. Carlo will not comment again until returning to the hotel.

• Dialogue from Gepetto, as well as everyone else in the Hotel, will remain unchanged.

• Carlo will have new, and much more hostile dialogue, when spoken to at the mirror.

These dialogue options are:

“Are you okay?“

Carlo: “Don’t you dare ask me if I’m okay. You’re lucky I can’t get my hands on you because if I could I would rip that heart right out of your chest and watch as the light leaves those glass eyes of yours.”

“I’m sorry.”

Carlo: “No. You arent. You’re programmed to think you are and even if you were actually sorry… it isn’t going to bring back the one thing that made my life worth living.”

“What are you thinking about?”

1. “Im thinking about how great it would be if you got the hell away from me.”

2. “Why do you care? Why don’t you go suck up to that bag of dust you call a ‘father’ instead of pestering me.”

3. “You’re going to get what’s coming to you. Just you wait.”

4. “I wanted it to rain again but… whatever. Leave me alone.”

[Lies]

[Optional]

•There is an optional moment where the player will play as Carlo, he will help lead Pinocchio and Romeo through Krat to reach the hotel.

• Pinocchio and Romeo will act as followers in this scenario and will have seperate walking animations depending on speed.

Walking: Romeo will walk while leaning against Pinocchio.

Jogging: Pinocchio will be stabilizing Romeo as he leans more heavily against P.

Sprinting: Pinocchio will have no choice but to just pick Romeo up and carry him to keep up.

• Since Carlo does not have a legion arm himself using the legion button will cause Pinocchio to use whatever arm he has equipped to help if needed.

• There will not be any mini bosses, but there will be more minor enemies than when passed through with Pinocchio

• Upong returning to the hotel, with Carlo and Romeo in Pinocchio’s company, the next time he talks to Gepetto will be more of a confrontation between him and Carlo

• The father and son will bicker back and forth while Romeo and Pinocchio watch

Gepetto: “Ah, my son, you’ve returned. I trust that… you…”

Carlo: “Hello, ‘father’.

Gepetto: “Carlo? How can you-“

Carlo: “The better question is: how can YOU? How can you go around calling that puppet your son? How can you suddenly act like you care even the SLIGHTEST bit about me OR him?!

Gepetto: “Just let me-“

Carlo: “No! I don’t want to hear it! All you’ve done is use him to do your dirty work and what’s worse, you tried to have him kill Romeo! You knew how much he meant to me and you STILL tried to have him killed and on top of that you… Look at what you did to him.”

Gepetto: “Destroying him would have been for the greater good-“

Carlo: “The greater good? My ass for the greater good! You only chose killing him over any other option because you knew how close we were.”

Gepetto: “You don’t know-“

Carlo: “I know enough. I’m out of here.”

Carlo will then storm off, the sound of him stomping down the hall and finishing with the sound of Pinoccchio’s bedroom door slamming shut.

• Carlo can be found in Pinocchio’s room until the next time P leaves Hotel Krat.

• Romeo will be taken to Eugénie where he will recieve repairs throughout the rest of game.

Talking to Carlo again before leaving will yield more dialogue options:

“Are you okay?”

Carlo: “… I’m fine. Don’t worry about me, I’ll get over it. Shrugging off my father has become second nature to me at this point.”

“Gepetto is your father?”

Carlo: “I should’ve told you sooner, but can you blame me? You were pretty much made to be my replacement or something. All those years I was left to rot in that hole… at least two good things came from it though. Something about Sophia is… off though.”

“Will Romeo be okay?”

Carlo: “Romeo is stronger than he looks. I bet by this time tomorrow he’ll be walking around like nothing happened, heheh… At least, I hope he is.”

“What are you thinking about?”

1. “It’s… really good to have Romeo back. I wasn’t expecting to ever see him again.”

2. “Sophia is going to be surprised to see Romeo and I again, it’ll be nice to talk to her.”

3. “I wonder if can play the piano with this body, maybe I can finally give you that show I promised.”

4. “I my favourite book is still downstairs. I never get tired of reading the story of Pinocchio, you should read it sometime.”

Most of the Hotel residents will also have something to say about Romeo and Carlo:

Antonia: “It’s been so long since I’ve seen those boys. It’s good to be able to see them again, even in the states they’re currently in.”

Eugénie: “Don’t worry, Romeo is in good hands with me and Venigni, we’ll make sure he gets patched up. His friend is welcome to come oversee his repairs anytime. Carlo was his name, right?”

Gepetto: “Please, leave me be, son. You have much more work to do in Krat.”

Venigni: “Ah, so good to see young Carlo and his ‘friend’ again. He deserved so much better than what happened to him, it’s good to see he’ll have a second chance.”

Polendena: “Master Carlo has changed in many ways since we’ve last met and yet, he’s stayed the same in some ways as well. I’m sure he and Romeo will fit in nicely at the Hotel.”

Sophia: “They’ve both changed so much, but I suppose I have too. It will be nice to have a chance to talk to them again, thank you for bringing them both back.”

• Even if Carlo isn’t spoken to before P leaves he can be recruited as a follower, a prompt will ask if P wants to bring him along.

• Carlo will head back to the hotel before his health can hit zero, once he heads back he’ll have to be recruited again.

• He will act pretty much the same as he does in boss fights, but he will only attack something that is actively trying to harm P rather than running off to fight whatever he sees.

• If P doesn’t see an item Carlo has a chance to point it out to him or he will ask to get it himself to which he will either stay with P or run off the grab it.

• Carlo will have his own weapon that will change every chapter like with regular boss fights, but if he is acting as a follower it’s possible to change it through P’s inventory.

#Specter Carlo AU #lies of p #carmeo #pinocchio #Carlo #Romeo #gepetto #lorenzini venigni #eugenie #Sophia #pulcinella #Polendina #Antonia

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