#anyway I am not avoiding the fandom for any specific reasons

[sneezypeasy]

Why I Deliberately Avoided the "Colonizer" Argument in my Zutara Thesis - and Why I'll Continue to Avoid it Forever

This is a question that occasionally comes up under my Zutara video essay, because somehow in 2 hours worth of content I still didn't manage to address everything (lol.) But this argument specifically is one I made a point of avoiding entirely, and there are some slightly complicated reasons behind that. I figure I'll write them all out here.

From a surface-level perspective, Zuko's whole arc, his raison d'etre, is to be a de-colonizer. Zuko's redemption arc is kinda all about being a de-colonizer, and his redemption arc is probably like the most talked about plot point of ATLA, so from a basic media literacy standpoint, the whole argument is unsound in the first place, and on that basis alone I find it childish to even entertain as an argument worth engaging with, to be honest.

(At least one person in my comments pointed out that if any ship's "political implications" are problematic in some way, it really ought to be Maiko, as Mai herself is never shown or suggested to be a strong candidate for being a de-colonizing co-ruler alongside Zuko. If anything her attitudes towards lording over servants/underlings would make her… a less than suitable choice for this role, but I digress.)

But the reason I avoided rebutting this particular argument in my video goes deeper than that. From what I've observed of fandom discourse, I find that the colonizer argument is usually an attempt to smear the ship as "problematic" - i.e., this ship is an immoral dynamic, which would make it problematic to depict as canon (and by extension, if you ship it regardless, you're probably problematic yourself.)

And here is where I end up taking a stand that differentiates me from the more authoritarian sectors of fandom.

I'm not here to be the fandom morality police. When it comes to lit crit, I'm really just here to talk about good vs. bad writing. (And when I say "good", I mean structurally sound, thematically cohesive, etc; works that are well-written - I don't mean works that are morally virtuous. More on this in a minute.) So the whole colonizer angle isn't something I'm interested in discussing, for the same reason that I actually avoided discussing Katara "mothering" Aang or the "problematic" aspects of the Kataang ship (such as how he kissed her twice without her consent). My whole entire sections on "Kataang bad" or "Maiko bad" in my 2 hour video was specifically, "how are they written in a way that did a disservice to the story", and "how making them false leads would have created valuable meaning". I deliberately avoided making an argument that consisted purely of, "here's how Kataang/Maiko toxic and Zutara wholesome, hence Zutara superiority, the end".

Why am I not willing to be the fandom morality police? Two reasons:

I don't really have a refined take on these subjects anyway. Unless a piece of literature or art happens to touch on a particular issue that resonates with me personally, the moral value of art is something that doesn't usually spark my interest, so I rarely have much to say on it to begin with. On the whole "colonizer ship" subject specifically, other people who have more passion and knowledge than me on the topic can (and have) put their arguments into words far better than I ever could. I'm more than happy to defer to their take(s), because honestly, they can do these subjects justice in a way I can't. Passing the mic over to someone else is the most responsible thing I can do here, lol. But more importantly:

I reject the conflation of literary merit with moral virtue. It is my opinion that a good story well-told is not always, and does not have to be, a story free from moral vices/questionable themes. In my opinion, there are good problematic stories and bad "pure" stories and literally everything in between. To go one step further, I believe that there are ways that a romance can come off "icky", and then there are ways that it might actually be bad for the story, and meming/shitposting aside, the fact that these two things don't always neatly align is not only a truth I recognise about art but also one of those truths that makes art incredibly interesting to me! So on the one hand, I don't think it is either fair or accurate to conflate literary "goodness" with moral "goodness". On a more serious note, I not only find this type of conflation unfair/inaccurate, I also find it potentially dangerous - and this is why I am really critical of this mindset beyond just disagreeing with it factually. What I see is that people who espouse this rhetoric tend to encourage (or even personally engage in) wilful blindness one way or the other, because ultimately, viewing art through these lens ends up boxing all art into either "morally permissible" or "morally impermissible" categories, and shames anyone enjoying art in the "morally impermissible" box. Unfortunately, I see a lot of people responding to this by A) making excuses for art that they guiltily love despite its problematic elements and/or B) denying the value of any art that they are unable to defend as free from moral wickedness.

Now, I'm not saying that media shouldn't be critiqued on its moral virtue. I actually think morally critiquing art has its place, and assuming it's being done in good faith, it absolutely should be done, and probably even more often than it is now.

Because here's the truth: Sometimes, a story can be really good. Sometimes, you can have a genuinely amazing story with well developed characters and powerful themes that resonate deeply with anyone who reads it. Sometimes, a story can be all of these things - and still be problematic.*

(Or, sometimes a story can be all of those things, and still be written by a problematic author.)

That's why I say, when people conflate moral art with good art, they become blind to the possibility that the art they like being potentially immoral (or vice versa). If only "bad art" is immoral, how can the art that tells the story hitting all the right beats and with perfect rhythm and emotional depth, be ever problematic?

(And how can the art I love, be ever problematic?)

This is why I reject the idea that literary merit = moral virtue (or vice versa) - because I do care about holding art accountable. Even the art that is "good art". Actually, especially the art that is "good art". Especially the art that is well loved and respected and appreciated. The failure to distinguish literary critique from moral critique bothers me on a personal level because I think that conflating the two results in the detriment of both - the latter being the most concerning to me, actually.

So while I respect the inherent value of moral criticism, I'm really not a fan of any argument that presents moral criticism as equivalent to literary criticism, and I will call that out when I see it. And from what I've observed, a lot of the "but Zutara is a colonizer ship" tries to do exactly that, which is why I find it a dishonest and frankly harmful media analysis framework to begin with.

But even when it is done in good faith, moral criticism of art is also just something I personally am neither interested nor good at talking about, and I prefer to talk about the things that I am interested and good at talking about.

(And some people are genuinely good at tackling the moral side of things! I mean, I for one really enjoyed Lindsay Ellis's take on Rent contextualising it within the broader political landscape at the time to show how it's not the progressive queer story it might otherwise appear to be. Moral critique has value, and has its place, and there are definitely circumstances where it can lead to societal progress. Just because I'm not personally interested in addressing it doesn't mean nobody else can do it let alone that nobody else should do it, but also, just because it can and should be done, doesn't mean that it's the only "one true way" to approach lit crit by anyone ever. You know, sometimes... two things… can be true… at once?)

Anyway, if anyone reading this far has recognised that this is basically a variant of the proship vs. antiship debate, you're right, it is. And on that note, I'm just going to leave some links here. I've said about as much as I'm willing/able to say on this subject, but in case anyone is interested in delving deeper into the philosophy behind my convictions, including why I believe leftist authoritarian rhetoric is harmful, and why the whole "but it would be problematic in real life" is an anti-ship argument that doesn't always hold up to scrutiny, I highly recommend these posts/threads:

In general this blog is pretty solid; I agree with almost all of their takes - though they focus more specifically on fanfic/fanart than mainstream media, and I think quite a lot of their arguments are at least somewhat appropriate to extrapolate to mainstream media as well.

I also strongly recommend Bob Altemeyer's book "The Authoritarians" which the author, a verified giga chad, actually made free to download as a pdf, here. His work focuses primarily on right-wing authoritarians, but a lot of his research and conclusions are, you guessed it, applicable to left-wing authoritarians also.

And if you're an anti yourself, welp, you won't find support from me here. This is not an anti-ship safe space, sorrynotsorry 👆

In conclusion, honestly any "but Zutara is problematic" argument is one I'm likely to consider unsound to begin with, let alone the "Zutara is a colonizer ship" argument - but even if it wasn't, it's not something I'm interested in discussing, even if I recognise there are contexts where these discussions have value. I resent the idea that just because I have refined opinions on one aspect of a discussion means I must have (and be willing to preach) refined opinions on all aspects of said discussion. (I don't mean to sound reproachful here - actually the vast majority of the comments I get on my video/tumblr are really sweet and respectful, but I do get a handful of silly comments here and there and I'm at the point where I do feel like this is something worth saying.) Anyway, I'm quite happy to defer to other analysts who have the passion and knowledge to give complicated topics the justice they deserve. All I request is that care is taken not to conflate literary criticism with moral criticism to the detriment of both - and I think it's important to acknowledge when that is indeed happening. And respectfully, don't expect me to give my own take on the matter when other people are already willing and able to put their thoughts into words so much better than me. Peace ✌

*P.S. This works for real life too, by the way. There are people out there who are genuinely not only charming and likeable, but also generous, charitable and warm to the vast majority of the people they know. They may also be amazing at their work, and if they have a job that involves saving lives like firefighting or surgery or w.e, they may even be the reason dozens of people are still alive today. They may honestly do a lot of things you'd have to concede are "good" deeds.

They may be all of these things, and still be someone's abuser. 🙃

Two things can be true at once. It's important never to forget that.

#zutara discourse #the colonizer argument #anti anti zutara #text post #long post #anti maiko #anti mai #tagging just in case #anti purity culture #this is not an anti-ship safe space

[chrollohearttags]

long winded ass post I contemplated not writing but did it anyways. read if you’d like or ignore lmao.

so I feel as though this kind of goes without saying but a lot has changed on tumblr and the vibe has shifted a lot, sadly, not for the better either :/ I thought about this for a while and although last week, I was not posting any new content due to the strike, I’ve decided to step away from writing in general after this month. I could sit here and go on a tangent about how it’s the ‘algorithm’ and ‘dying fandoms’ but to me, this boils down to the fact that I refuse to exhaust myself to be unappreciated + disrespected. That’s not to say I’m ungrateful to everyone who reblogs and comments on my works all the time because I am incredibly grateful! I love each of you and I look forward to reading your tags/thoughts. However, it’s not lost on me that the anime fandom in general is becoming shrouded in toxicity and many of us are being pushed away. We’re in an age where people are seen as content machines and not humans so others feel entitled to their art and feel no need to be kind, understanding or empathetic to that person’s feelings. I’m not wasting my time trying to teach people manners that they should’ve learned a long time ago. I refuse to share my craft with people like that. And to say the quietest part out loud: y’all don’t want black writers around, PERIOD. One scroll through the dash shows that much. As someone who’s written primarily for AOT (not changing btw) and specifically the black side of the fandom, it’s almost laughable at the extreme lengths that ppl have gone through to see it be erased. And I don’t mean getting fics hit with labels or reporting (that failed so they switched to plan B.) since I began back writing in 2020-21, it was obvious that it was the most popular among black girls and I remember ppl telling me to write for them. Hell, it’s the sole reason I even watched. Needless to say, I fell in love with the show and it holds a special place in my heart. However, I realized I didn’t need any of the original material. Not only that, in all the years I’ve been writing, it’s the first time I’ve seen so many black girls resonating and happy with a group of characters. It was the first and only time I’ve seen stories where I didn’t feel as though them being a black character was a hidden secret or toned down to appeal to others (no shade). It was in my face and proud, even if I didn’t personally resonate with the reader or concept of the story. It still felt good coming from a fandom where I was literally the ONLY black writer in it. Fast forward and I clearly see that now, it’s not welcomed. We could sit here and blame it on non-blk (yt) having the problems but that’s a load of bullshit and the only enemies we have are one another. It’s been other black writers who have littered the tags with discourse abt the same stupid topic to avoid new fics being seen. It’s been other black writers who have switched fandoms when they were no longer the ONLY ones bc coexisting is just too damn hard apparently. It’s been other black authors who have made it blatantly clear that they are only interested in seeing and creating stories that are palatable to other races so they won’t be perceived in a negative light or to be seen as one of the ‘good ones’. Even down to not using black reader tags or avoiding coded language. So much so, they are comfortable laughing at anti-black rhetoric being pushed on other apps so as long as their new favs are not the brunt of the joke.

I’m not here to tell anybody how or what to write. I’m not here to say you ONLY have to like one show but what I am saying is that i will NOT be spending hours and days agonizing over a fic for it to be minimized to a joke for a bitch on TikTok. I will not spend the little free time I have trying to crunch and finish a fic for it not do well but watch y’all pile in my mentions to argue over nonsense. And I won’t sit here and watch y’all purposely try to run other black writers away bc they don’t fit ur aesthetic. Fiction is fiction and whether you resonate with it or not, it’s expression. I’m a boring ass country bumpkin from the middle of nowhere, Florida who’s got social anxiety, chronically ill, neurodivergent and is in bed by 10:00. I don’t smoke, never had sex and I literally never leave the house unless I’m grocery shopping. I never have and never will live the life of any of my characters, even the most tame ones. But I write for EVERY black girl and want everyone of them to be seen. The one space where that seems to be allowed is obviously not welcomed anymore. Arguing and trying to defend ourselves against people who are committed to misunderstanding us is pointless. Minimizing us down to ‘baby mama’, ‘hoodrat’ fics, simply bc you no longer like certain characters (many of which you all were writing for not too long ago) is quite frankly clown and coon ass behavior. Watching y’all become enraged by tropes that are used by ever race, every fandom, etc but turning the blind eye bc it suits ur narrative is fucking hypocritical and laughable at best.

I’m not insecure in my writing. Never have been and never will be. I know I pour everything I have into creating the best work I can and it’s for that reason that I won’t allow it to be treated like trash. I have over 250 drafts in my Google docs and best believe, that’s where they’ll stay until I see fit. Although I know it’ll probably mean leaving the last place I have any sense of community and social interaction in general, it’s not worth coming on here angry everyday in defense mode. Its not worth getting out of my character over and I rather just not be around if it means I have to play mean girl. My mind may change and all of this will just have been me getting shit off my chest but as of right now, this account will be archived come February 28th. Thank you to everybody who’s supported me this far and gave me a safe space. I love all of you so very much and hope that we can enjoy the rest of this month together 🫶🏾 🤍

#cherry chats 🍒 #tw rant #tw discourse #tw long post #happy black history month lmao #writing #fanfic writer

[mixelation]

I think it’s fairly common for people to headcanon Naruto as good at stealth/infiltration/“blending in” but in general I personally find this largely incongruent with canon. Here’s why (disclaimer that ofc you may have your own opinion or prefer this headcanon; I am simply teasing out my own thoughts here):

I think the logic of this headcanon comes from three things. First, from the way a lot of people conceptualize how Naruto’s childhood isolation went. The idea is that he was forced to learn to keep his head down and blend in and maybe even sneak around in order to get people to sell him food and clothes, to avoid an ongoing threat of violence, etc. My thing is that I don’t feel this is what canon actually implied was happening: what we mostly see is Naruto being alone while people off in the distance whisper about him. There is no implication of violence or that he had a hard time obtaining things for himself, like food. Naruto is so desperate for attention, to not be ignored and forgotten, that he is as loud and in your face as possible because even negative attention is better than nothing. There is ofc room for a character to be both desperate for attention but need to have a stealth mode for their own health/safety, but this requires a lot of nuance and complexity of character that I find a lot of people just like. Forget? Or exploring this new headcanon and narrative of having to go to the grocery store in disguise is more important to them than preserving his canon motivation/personality. (Absolutely nothing wrong with that, btw, but I am the type of person who gets annoyed by the attitude a headcanon is based on canon/“correct” when it’s noooot really.)

The second basis for the headcanon comes from people wanting to explore Naruto’s sexy no jutsu as more than what it is in canon, where it is basically used entirely for the shock value (barring some filler shenanigans and that bizarre but with Jiraiya). And I do like playing with and fleshing out new uses for the jutsu, and also it’s a fun canon compliant way to do some Gendery Shenanigans. But people often want to have Naruto be like… a seduction shinobi? Because boobs, I guess? And I think my annoyance with this take is that I just… dont think Naruto has the personality. He is not subtle. His entire personality would probably be considered unflattering/gross/even bitchy by the types of marks generally imagined up by these scenarios, even with the boobs. Even for the non-sex seduction-type stuff (like chatting someone up at a bar for intel), it just doesn’t really work with like… his approach to life. Like I think older Naruto could be good at buddying up to certain types of personalities, but this is entirely unlinked to any specific propensity for seduction/undercover work/etc.

(Insert long aside here about how the fandom’s obsession with sex work as a kunoichi skill is really fucking weird, and also not even how people behave.)

Anyway the third idea is that Naruto has a lot of skills developed via pranking, particularly stealth. This also isn’t really canon, although I feel it’s a reasonable extrapolation because we DO see him successfully execute pranks that must have required these skills. My only thing is that, given his attitude toward ninja training in canon, I don’t think twelve year old Naruto ever like. Consciously made the connection that his prank skills would transfer to being a ninja. I think you would have to actually tell him “pretend this is a prank” or else do sone character work to get him to this epiphany.

Anyway, those are my thoughts! 💃🏻

#‘who on team 7 does the seduction stuff then’ #none of them but sometimes Sasuke’s pretty privilege means he does it completely on accident #naruto meta

[utilitycaster]

The wildest part about people being mad on Imogen's behalf is Imogen herself understood Keyleth's position in spite of her own wishful thinking, helps acquire the blue flowers for her, was the first to acknowledge the Changebringer's help, and the first to say "I'm sorry" to Orym losing more of his people. I'm really baffled to read these "Orym is manipulative" takes and that it was dangerous of Keyleth to validate his anger. Do you think it goes back to the god stuff, or is it just Imodna?

I think a little of column A, little of column B, little of several other things. Since I've been on the "hey could we consider that Imogen and Laudna are adult women who are responsible for their own actions" train for over a year, the specific "Imogen can be mean-spirited as well as unintentionally insensitive" train since at least this past February, and the "Orym is correct and Bor'Dor signed his own death warrant by casting Vitriolic Sphere at a group of people who were not violent towards him" train for a month, let's break it down.

There are a small handful of people in the fandom who just really hate Liam. Per a very salty rant I put into my drafts shortly after 3x63 to describe this type of person, it is a small, scattered, bizarre group of people who for no apparent reason have decided to be foaming-at-the-mouth levels of furious because, as far as I can tell, a nerdy Gen X-er dad who went to Tisch is kind of corny sometimes. Anyway nothing he does will ever sit well with them so we can ignore them forever. Moving on.

Some is Imodna; I thought the whole issue of Imogen and Laudna as agency-less infants against a cruel world would have been ameliorated by them entering a canon relationship (one currently compatible with the 2013 Pinterest board vibes of fanon no less) but it appears to have not been the case. For more on this, see this still relevant post and, while I personally haven't ever written something up, there's just, again, a complete black hole of empathy from a segment of the fandom when it comes to any of the other characters; my post from this morning about Imogen as compared to Caleb touches upon it. You know the Far Side cartoon where a guy is talking to his dog and the dog only recognizes a small handful of words? I feel this is similar, like, they see that Imogen wanted one thing and Orym and Keyleth wanted another thing that wasn't even, as you point out, terribly incompatible, and then the "well if not thing Imogen wants and not 100% deferential to her then BAD BAD BAD" attitude kicked in.

But I do think, in the end, a lot of it does come back to if not the gods exactly, the idea that the Vanguard is, unmistakably, the enemy. They are not the revolution here to usher in a new era of rule by the people. Keyleth is not here to raze Vasselheim to the ground but to have a diplomatic discussion; neither is she here to grant any leniency to the woman who attacked Vax regardless of her connection to Imogen. And she finds the idea of a world without the gods, regardless of her own personal feelings, to be one to be avoided. [sidebar: I hope we get Matt on 4SD; I am wondering, after the one-two-three punch of Hevestro, the Raven Queen, and Keyleth all placing a heavy thumb on the scale opposing the Vanguard if he did not expect the party to be as conflicted about the role of the gods and is trying to wind up an argument that I think as of last episode reached the end of its useful life.] When you couple that with Orym's positive attitude towards the gods, that explains the animosity towards him.

The undermining of Orym's position over the past few episodes has always been one of emotion. First he was not objective - as if anyone else was objective! As if any moral decision is ever 100% objective! We all have biases! What kind of early 2000s atheist forum shit are you on to claim perfect rationality that conveniently matches the ideas that apparently came to you in a godless vision? It's insane. Then it was his grief; grief makes you irrational (unless you're Imogen grieving Laudna, in which case you are objectively right at all times, even as you shout down every other suggestion, beseech Laudna's first murderer, not a month later consider the potential validity of the her second, and try to to undo her immutable past) and remember, moral decisions must be made by the rational. Then it was his impatience (nevermind that Imogen has absolutely no patience). And now it's his anger, and he's apparently been manipulating the party the whole time by...having suggestions for the group which he mentions, and openly stating what he was feeling and what he wanted, and not intuiting that Laudna reawoke Delilah with his approximately no magical ability and then encouraging her to finish a job she had started herself. Because god Rational Objective Conceptual Being forbid women do anything; it is the role of the man to protect their fragile souls from all consequences.

Even more generally I think a lot of people- not just in this fandom, though certainly within this fandom - are terrified of anger. Like, they think they like it - they say they love barbarians (though rage is its own beast and I think very different from the anger Orym and Keyleth exhibit) but most of the discussion of them tends to veer more into angst, and most players of barbarians are often exploring emotions like grief, self-pity (as Ashton says), or frustration just as much if not more so than anger. I think a lot of people perceive anger as this awful thing inside them to be controlled and denied, or alternately to only be let out for whatever they think is a sufficiently righteous cause, and instead sit in an increasingly toxic stew of simmering resentment and conflict avoidance until they begin to think this is not just normal but aspirational - anything but that awful beast they call anger. It's not new in discussions of Keyleth, and it's not limited to her and Orym; I can point to nearly every single character who has had even the slightest of outbursts - even something as mild and controlled as Orym's whispered profanity or less - and I promise you there's been pearl-clutching for every single one of them.

Anyway, you make great points! One of the things that struck me about this episode and prompted my frustration and my post earlier today is that Imogen has changed. I think she's been mulling over Liliana since her appeals to her during the Key's activation were unsuccessful; she hesitantly told Chetney when he asked in Uthodurn that yes, if Liliana's death is necessary, she understands; and I think seeing the utter devastation and pain that was inflicted on Keyleth brought it into focus. She was much more open to FCG and the coin as well. And, you know, if one had embraced Imogen's moral ambiguity in the leadup to the solstice, and the possibility that she could betray the party, instead of shouting that down? Then one could see this as a beautiful moment of growth for Imogen. One could, in fact, if one was so inclined, attribute it to her new sense of ease thanks to her circlet, or even to her nascent romantic relationship. If one, of course, had wholeheartedly embraced Imogen's past moral ambiguity and the possibility of her betrayal.

#answered #Anonymous #critical role spoilers #critical role #long post

[ginsakatoki]

Ok, this one is oddly specific but I hope it's fine with you. So I was thinking about this scenario: post-dmc5 Nero meets reader (who's also a hunter, well into her 30s) during Red Grave clean up and after some time he started seeing her as a mother figure, and the feeling is pretty much mutual. Now she's not very fond of Dante and Vergil (at first) for obvious reasons, so when they return from hell chaos ensues. Nothing super angsty, I just really want someone to slap those shit twins around a bit on Nero's behalf, cuz the boy deserves it <3 Would be extra fun to add Nico, Lady and Trish to the mix, but it's up to you. Thanks!

Oddly specific scenarios are what I like and need, plus this has found a soft spot in my heart and since I saw it in the requests I couldn’t help but want to write it. There is a part that might be a bit angsty but otherwise it’s pretty soft. I have just 1 request left for dmc, then I’ll take a break from it. Please, please ask me about other fandoms too when i open my requests again.

Anyway, sorry to make you wait this long, hope you enjoy it :)

Nero With a Motherly Reader

When I saw on the news what was happening in Red Grave I had to rush in, no matter what the authorities were saying, no matter if everyone was in a rush to leave the city, I had to get there. The idea that demons were slaughtering innocent people made me sick, how did they get in the city in such large numbers in the first place? I’m an experienced hunter and I know how demons usually act: they’re not pack creatures, they’re independent and enjoy the thrill of the hunt on their own. When they do work together, it’s in groups of five or six, so why are there thousands of demons all of a sudden? The answer is pretty obvious. A higher rank demon must have spawned in the city, and I am motivated to stop it. Well, that was the intention anyway.

I just got into the city, and it looks like the major fight has already ended, Red Grave is a mess and there isn’t a single soul around. Demolished buildings, alley walls painted red in blood, burnt ashes of what used to be people… it looks like a manifestation of Hell on Earth, a land owned by the dead. I drive around by car, avoiding corpses and rubble, until there is no access anymore.

I didn’t quite notice it before, but the stink of death surrounds me anywhere I turn, and it gets harder and harder to breathe… or resist the impulse to puke at any corner. Despite this scenery of death, the city is silent, and I’d definitely doubt anyone or anything was around, lurking in the shadow, if I didn’t know better.

I walk and walk until my feet start to hurt, and it becomes increasingly obvious that something is wrong. The demons should have attacked by now, yet all is still silent, eerily so… until it isn’t. A loud sound of engines starts roaring a few streets further, a motorbike perhaps?

I hurry towards the sound, guns in hand and the sniper rifle at my back. As I get closer, I start hearing the distinct sound of voices screaming at each other and a battle. I’m not sure if they’re fighting against each other or demons, though it all sounds very… chaotic.

“What the hell, Nico! Are you trying to get me killed?” Says the first voice, clearly a young male.

“Hell nah. You’re doing a wonderful job yerself” I can’t help but giggle a little, they sound like siblings that banter every day.

I get to a dead end and the fight is just ahead, unreachable by this road, but I refuse to turn tail and run. That’s when I notice a fire escape that heads to the roof, high ground it is. The battle still wages while I climb the ladder and new voices come in.

“Lady! On your back!”

“I got it!” A loud and powerful explosion almost knocks me down… was that a bazooka? I get to the rooftop and I finally manage to see the battle ahead. A large amount of demons is on the streets, a couple of dozens by the looks of it, and among them there are four people, each of them holding their own against multiple enemies at once. Not bad at all. If this were a game, they’d definitely get an SSS rank. I look around for the perfect spot to set up my rifle and give them support. Turns out I got ready to shoot at the perfect time: a demon was coming towards the young man by his blind spot and all his mates were busy in their own fights. With no hesitation I shoot the demon on the head, blasting it off. The man looks at my way for a moment, then continues his battle. I give support to each of them, getting enemies out of their way and protecting their backs. Soon enough the fight is over and before I can even blink the young man is at my side.

“Who are you? What are you doing here” he still has the gun in his hand, itching to shoot at any given moment.

“Calm down, boy” I slowly get up and hold my hands up “I’m a hunter, I came here to clean up this city. Just like you guys.”

The tension on his shoulders eases up, but he sure doesn’t give me the satisfaction of putting away his weapon.

“I had everything under control, you can go back now; we don’t need civilians around. And don’t call me boy.”

I stare at him confused, did he not hear me when I told him I’m a hunter? He seems to read the confusion from my face.

“I don’t buy it. You can’t be a hunter, you look like a mother or teacher if anything.” I don’t really have a reply to that, I mean. I _am_ a teacher… and I was a mother. Plus I don’t really dress like his hunter friends: no revealing clothes, no bad ass leather, just jeans and a comfy sweater but I get interrupted before I can reply.

“Yo Nero come here we gotta go! Wait who’s that? You find yerself a hot mama huh? You nasty”

“Oh, shut up Nico!” Once again, I giggle at their interactions.

“Say what you wish, boy, but you guys sure sound like you need a mother. Anyway, we really should go. Red Grave won’t clean itself.”

With that I head back to the street and meet the other members of the crew, the funny and solar Nico, the calm but strong Lady and the seductive and down to earth Trish, completely unaware that it will change my life.

It’s been three years since I met the crew and I must say, I grew attached to all of them, Nero and Nico in particular. They always banter and fight like teenagers but I know how much they care about each other. At first Nero was very skeptical about me and refused to even look my way for a long time, the more I was around, the less he opened up, if anything he closed off even more. Regardless I kept doing my own and, before I could even realize, I started making sure he always ate well (he had such an unbalanced diet I could feel my cholesterol rising just looking at him eat) and slept long enough. More than a few times I found myself covering him with a blanket when he fell asleep on the sofa or covering for him more than the others when we were out on missions or even worrying for him to the point I’d be the first to rush in and help him heal his injuries. It went on like this for a year until one day, when we were alone, he exploded with rage I couldn’t understand.

“Why are you doing this? You’re not my girlfriend, you’re not my mother, so why! I don’t need your stupid kindness and your stupid support, I’m not a child, just go away!” His whole body started to shake and tremble and, at first, I thought it was out of anger. I had to change my mind when I noticed the way he kept hiding his face from me, and how his voice had become a breath whispering me to go away. I didn’t quite realize until that moment how broken he was, how the conviction of being unlovable was rooted inside of him, how he felt unable of being cared for because he’d never known the unconditional love of a mother nor the protective kindness of a father. In a moment of epiphany I understood that everything I had done for him, it had never actually been _for him_, it had been for me. Salty tears started crawling to my cheeks before I could control them and words spilled out before I could choose which ones to say.

“I’m sorry, Nero. I’m so sorry. I didn’t think this would cause you pain. I just… I got to know you and you reminded me so much of my son. Of how grumpy and unhappy he looked the day I went to see him years after I gave him up for adoption believing it would be for the best because I was too young and too stupid. But it was not… it was not” my throat started to hurt and it got harder and harder to breathe.

“He got involved in some shady business and he got killed… he was just a boy. I wanted so desperately to get my son back, to fix my mistakes and I projected that on you… I only made my mistakes bigger. I’m sorry, Nero”. The little composure I had left vanished and I began crying uncontrollably, Nero’s whimpers and cries merging with mines while we looked into each other’s eyes. He closed the distance almost shyly, looking for comfort he didn’t think he deserved, and he hugged me desperately as if afraid I’d run away and leave him alone like all his parental figures had done.

We never talked about that day again, but things had clearly changed. Nero was not grumpy around me anymore, instead he liked to talk about how his days went and started coming to me for advices instead of trying to handle everything by himself like he always used to. He even introduced me to Kyrie and they both agreed I should come over to dine with them in the weekend, like a family.

I stare at Nero and Nico banter in the living room of Devil May cry reminiscing all the events in the past three years. It took time but it seems that Nero has almost healed from the wounds of loneliness and abandonment and I couldn’t be more proud. As I think this, the door opens with a loud thud and two tall men enter like they own the place (which they technically do). I’ve never met them before but the crew has talked a lot about them: Dante, the legendary devil hunter and Vergil… Nero’s father.

“We’re back!” Says the one I presume to be Dante “Why the long faces, no welcome home for us?”.

“We’re back? Is that all you have to say after vanishing for 3 goddamned years? What did you expect! A welcome home party with balloons and candles?” I speak before I can control myself, they cannot be serious.

“Excuse me, missy, but who are you? You’re trespassing, you know, this is my property. Is this your new partner, Nero?”. The nerves of this man.

“Stay away from my son” The twins stare at me, stunned, until Vergil decides to clear this up.

“Son? You’re not his biological mother”

“You’re right” I reply “I am not and, obviously, his ‘biological family’ did a much better job at taking care of him now didn’t you”.

The two men keep silent and lower their heads exchanging guilty glances.

“Now if you don’t have anything important to say, go to your rooms to think about what you’ve done and how not to fuck up again” they both look up, surprised.

“But-”

“No buts. If you’re not going to act like responsible adults, you’re not going to be treated like ones. Now go” they lower their heads once more and start walking towards the stairs.

“Yes ma’am”.

#DMC5 #DMC #dmc fandom #dmc x reader #Nero Sparda #nero devil may cry #reader interactive #reader insert #nico dmc #lady dmc #trish dmc #vergil #dmc dante #vergil dmc #vergil sparda #dante sparda #mother #mother son relationship #reader request #requested #anon request #scenario #one shot #gin writes #gin answered #this is soft #my son #baby #found family #ask

[rise-my-angel]

You are sooooo right about shippers not engaging with Jon as his own character. It’s especially weird for me (despite enjoying Jonerys in theory) to see Jonerys shippers doing this because like. They haven’t met. None of them are show!Jonerys fans for obvious reasons so it’s just the book versions of these characters and they have not met. Literally it’s all speculation about their dynamic. Despite being open to the ship under specific circumstances I don’t think it’s undeniably foreshadowed at all. Everything that gets called foreshadowing is tenuous. You can’t generally definitively call something foreshadowing until the events being purportedly foreshadowed actually come to pass, unless it’s truly really screaming in your face obvious but if it’s that obvious I’m not sure if it’s that good from a writing perspective. I think foreshadowing should only really be clear in retrospect. Shippers also are so selective in what they’ll acknowledge just do they can hold onto these moments. Like jonsas and the Slynt beheading. You’re so right that it is a JON moment. And shippers refuse to acknowledge that George say he was originally going to have Slynt HUNG, not beheaded, until someone pointed out that Jon would want to do it the northern way. Of everyone I think Jonrya shippers do the best at acknowledging Jon as his own character and I think it’s because there’s so much in the actually text demonstrating how much Jon and Arya care about each other. It’s not speculation unlike with Jonsa and Jonerys. It’s just that they read this and think it’s romance instead of sibling love. I can’t say I blame them because of the original outline, but it’s also a ship that is really really not for me because they were raised as siblings.

I actually sent you an ask months ago and forgot to check your response. I finally found it. I discussed how much upbringing influences how we know who our relatives are and that that’s why Jonerys doesn’t make me uncomfortable the way Jonrya and Jonsa do. I’m an evolutionary biologist so I fully understand why incest is avoided. However, I didn’t know how much we actually CAN detect our blood relatives without being raised to know who they are. I fully believed it was entirely upbringing, because upbringing is sufficient to establish someone as “relative” in our brains (ie adopted siblings recognize each other as siblings and are repulsed by the idea of mating despite not sharing blood). But I came to the false conclusion that because it was sufficient it’s the only mechanism. I did some looking into it and you’re right! There’s evidence that we can subconsciously smell our relatives based on MHC complexes—however this isn’t 100% reliable because sometimes our relatives will have differing MHC complexes and nonrelatives will have very similar ones just based on recombination and the gene pool of the population, but that’s why the upbringing factor exists as a supplement to innate biological factor. I appreciated being prompted to learn more!

However I’m not sure George would take this into consideration. Within the universe of the books, I think it’s perfectly feasible that they wouldn’t biologically recognize each other as relatives because there are many cases of non first degree incest (first degree being siblings and parents) being carried out without any disgust. However real life is obviously different I do not blame anyone at all for being opposed to a ship based on real life principles. There are lots of ships I oppose that would be fine in-universe based on my own real life principles.

Anyway I’ve said a lot here and sorry for all the words. I just really enjoy discussion and it’s hard to have any nuanced conversations in the fandom because of the issues we’ve mentioned here and I’m eager to find someone so willing to engage with people who have different opinions

You wrote me an essay, so I wrote you a novel in return. I am sorry in advance but I love rational and calm, respectful discussions and debate and you thus far have been a great sport for my word vomit.

This isn't directed at you personally, but more of a blanket statement in saying, it is just very odd and funny that in this specific fandom, I find myself having to be more knowledgeable about the harmful physical, genetic, and psychological impacts of incest, to explain why I am against it, then those who are for it. It is just very funny how much defending I do about not supporting incest ships, compared to any other fandom where any incest shippers live in the dark because they know it's weird and gross.

That being said, I'm addressing Jonrya first. Because, I have gone on record to say I personally think shipping that is very gross.

Show or Book, that is a dynamic where any romantic implications being attached to it are very uncomfortable. Arya is so deeply ingrained in his head as his baby sister that adding any romance to that makes Jon look incredibly predatory. Arya is still a very young child in the single digits in the books, and Jon is very clearly at the start of the show a man in his 20's.

I do not think claiming anything of the outline is any reasonable argument. It was in an outline which was scrapped for a reason. As a writer, I wouldn't want any of my initial outline ideas to be used as proof of canon. It isn't canon one way or the other and I do not accept it as fair use of evidence for a ship. Jons canon thoughts about her are textbook loving older brother. It feels predatory to make Jons thoughts of a very young, child Arya to be that of romantic. It makes him appear as if his closeness and kindness were all tinted in a different intent towards a child.

Arya in every adaptation, is too young. I will never support any evidence of that ship because it is the exact kind of predatory dynamic which Jonrya fans denounce in other ships involving older man/younger woman characters. I hate this idea of taking Jons point of view and deciding his affection is not brotherly, only when discussing his sisters. It takes away the validity of Jons character being a good big brother, because now his good brotherly nature only towards his sisters is rooted in predatory behaviour whether they realize it or not. This goes for Jonrya and Jonsa both.

Moving on, you did hit the nail on the head about the “proof” about Jon and Dany. Foreshadowing is not a common tool used whenever grrm writes anything. Foreshadowing is a very specific tool he uses to elaborate more on motifs and themes and over arching plots, rather then for every minute character dynamic. Jon and Dany have literally no evidence that a ship will exist. They are not even on the same continent and they are constantly shown to be at extreme moral opposites to one another.

There is no scrap of proof a relationship or even base attraction will ever exist. That is all pure fan theory with no in text evidence. Same with Jon and Sansa. Jon doesn't not think about Sansa because he loves her the most. That is not Jon Snow, we know that. He thinks constantly about the people he loves, and there is no evidence backing up he doesn't think of her often for love that is not also pure fan theory with no empirical evidence. Sansa had rarely ever thought about Jon and when she has more times then not, it was associated in a negative light. Her points of view about her bullying of Arya showcase that, as she insults and wishes to denounce Arya as someone she should care about in ways that connect her to Jon. Wishing Arya was a bastard like him because she doesn't want to call her a trueborn sister. Repeatedly noting Arya looks just like Jon and then exploring the times Sansa constantly thinks Arya is ugly. The only time she has any growth about this is when she is being talked down to when posing as Petyr Baelish's bastard daughter, and she doesn't like being treated that way, but it is not explored that Sansa has literally treated Jon worse then this her whole life. She has not yet even realized she engaged in the exact same kind of classist treatment that Catelyn treated him with.

So much of what Jonerys, Jonsa, and Jonrya shippers do, is look at Jon and discuss it in a way that supposedly symbolizes their ship. They do NOT analyze their female fave and associate how deeply it all ties to their ship. Jons story is always secretly about the ship, but the other female part of the ship is their own story who will only be about Jon when they get together. Jon is not the character they like, it is the girl. Jon is the love interest, the accessory to their story. Not a unique half all of his own.

As for the incest, because these people all function biologically the same as we do, other then when magic is inferred, it is reasonable to assume real life science is included. Grrm does not need to tell me about invisible pheromones or scent markers for me to apply that to the characters. It is indirectly supported by the sheer fact that most characters within the world of asoiaf do not engage in incest and do not support it. Meaning, 99% of the average population of asoiaf are not attracted to their family members what so ever. Meaning it is reasonable to assume the same biological factors are at play here.

But the thing about certain incest dynamics not being carried out with disgust doesn't really apply with Jon ships here. Jons three biggest ships are his little sisters, and his aunt. Two family relations that both physically and psychologically are the most harmful to engage in. The dynamics of incest shown to be the most psychologically harmful is sibling to sibling incest, parent to child incest, and aunt/uncle to nephew/neice incest. Those are such close familial ties with SO many shared biological markers that it is not reasonable at all to think not knowing each other at first would make that biological connection less important. I only met my aunt in my mid 20's and from that moment on she has been as much my aunt in my head as my mother is my mother. Once that knowlede of family is made, it will not be severed. If Jon is not inclinced already towards incest, he will never engage in it with that knowledge.

Dany is his aunt. Dany also, has very inbed genetics to a shocking degree, meaning the biological markers she shares with Jon would be so strong she basically would wreak of red flags. And learning they have such a close biological connection would instantly sever any possible ability in Jon to view her in any romantic or physical attraction sense. He was not raised like her. Jon does not now think incest is normal, and thus he never will.

Also, learning Dany is his aunt would make any physical or romantic dynamics extremely traumatizing for him. The second Jon learns the truth of his birth, Jon will realize that he is related to Dany in the exact way Jon spent his whole life thinking he was related to the woman who was his mother. Jon learning his aunt was actually his mother, would destroy any capability of a relationship with Dany.

That would utterly change every single way he views any character in a motherly or aunt manner. It would destroy that potential in an instant because now Dany is to Jon, what Jon previously thought his mother was to him. It would be traumatizing should a relationship already exist and it would sever any chance of a relationship forming if it hadn't existed already.

The reason the Targaryeans did the most incest and are almost extinct, is because their engaging in incest was not sustainable and it was harmful.

Shown by characters like Egg, who literally grew up his whole life trying to escape the incestual nature of his family. One of his brothers made threats about cutting off his manhood in terms of making a wife for himself. That is not a family who engages in incest beceause they think it is normal. This is a family raised to view their incest in terms of furthering a bloodline because they see themselves as superior to those they rule over. They do not think it is fine, they do it because they raise each other to think it is necessary to further their superior bloodline. And they paid the price. Targaryean women the more inbred they were struggled to give birth, struggled to carry pregnancies to term and often died on the birthing bed with alarming freqency for how short their dynasty lasted.

It is not sustainable and it is harmful. The main plot beat of the story was literally how so many people viewed the incestual relationship of a brother and sister to be an abomination, that wars were started to dethrone them and the population and faith turned against them for it. This is not a world where people think incest is fine, unless it is a learned behaviour their whole life.

People can ship it, it's fine. But despite how much he writes it, grrm time and time again has shown that those in asoiaf who engage in incest, pay a deep, harmful price for it. He writes it a lot, but writing a lot of it does not mean he thinks it is behavior which should be supported for his charcters. Otherwise those who engage in such close incest, would not constantly be punished for doing so.

I have to apply real world logic to being anti incest, because my excuse of “I think it's gross” has been deemed as hateful and unfair. So you can imagine it is frustrating to see my favourite character is primiarly shipped with either women with VERY close biological or familial ties to him, or his rapist.

So, yeah I love talking about Jon but so much of it is me defending why I have never been convinced of any pro incest arguments. It is a goofy situation to be in.

Those who followed me for my pedro pascal content are dying on the inside, I decided I loved Jon Snow and suddenly my blog keeps becoming a haven of debates around the morality of incest.

It is silly silly silly.

#anti tag speedrun time lets go #game of thrones #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #jon snow #anti jonerys #anti jonsa #anti jonrya #anti jongritte #anti jonerys stans #anti jonsa stans #anti sansa stans #anti daenerys targaryen #anti dany stans #anti targ stans #anti targaryen #anti targ restoration #i think thats it ill get yelled at if i missed any anways #long post

[majorbaby]

I don't mean to be rude or offensive, I'm really just curious, are there any m/f ships you really like in mash or other fandoms?

oh that's not offensive in the least. i think what can get grating is when people are rude about "everything being about gay ships all the time" when i've made it pretty clear that there's a lot of gay stuff on my blog and if someone doesn't like it they can avoid me pretty easily.

so, a few things: 1) i'm relatively new to shipping and it doesn't rank high for me amongst things that draw me into a narrative or fandom - i am not dedicated to many ships in general.

2) even if i can logically 'see' a ship, i like to write smut so if i'm not turned on by the idea of these people fucking then i won't have more than a passing interest in them as a ship. i can be into a fic that uses sex to explore a dynamic without being into the sex itself, but it's not where the majority of my time is spent. that said, i've been in this MASH box so long I've produced fic i would've never dreamed of writing when i first started the show. see: infinite monkey theorum for why that might be lol.

in general, i wouldn’t say gender affects what appeals to me in a ship or a character. i like traphawk because of the nature of their relationship, not specifically because theyre both men, although in their case, the two of them being each other’s non trad partners is relevant to the anti-establishmentarian themes of the show. I dont think it would be half as effective, and therefore as impactful on me, if they were a het ship. their joint commitment to being little shits is why i love them so much together.

ANYWAY to actually answer your question: yes

within MASH i'm really into: margaret/trapper, ginger/trapper, almost any threesome with hawk/trap + a lady friend, hawkeye/kyungsoon

passing interest in: trapper/louise, hawkeye/margaret, hawkeye/bigelowe, hawkeye/carlye, klinger/soon lee, frank/margaret, ginger/oliver

highly situational crackships: trapper/carlye, BJ/aggie, hawkeye/kellye, trapper/kellye, hawkeye/peg hunnicutt

other het ships i'm into to varying degrees from very popular fandoms: katara/zuko (atla), rose/nine (dw), ten/martha (dw), ten/rose (dw), roy/riza (fma), batman/wonder woman (dc comics), nightwing/batgirl (dc comics), ollie/dinah (dc comics), rogue/gambit (marvel comics), han/leia (star wars)

... altho now that i think of it, the caveat with most of these is that with the exception of roy/riza, i don't think i endgame ship any of these. i won't not read a fic that implies they're endgame, i just don't think i really "OTP" any of these, I just enjoy them for various reasons.

honourable mention: mulder/scully - have not seen the x-files but i believe in them.

#replies

[katyspersonal]

Some responses

Oh jeez...... Guys, I did not expect my post to resonate with so many people. I was aware that the problem of people feeling excluded and mocked just for less common headcanons had to be big, but I still thought this post would stay between me and all five of my followers, hahah; I am glad that some people feel really heard here! Some are for very different reasons, too?

I ESPECIALLY want to point out this one, because it is exactly the result I've been seeing a lot:

@tsunbath I've heard similar things from (former?) Malenia fans, and also I know at least two friends for whom Maria was ruined as a character because of how toxic her fans were. You are VERY right about the fact that Malenia would've hated to be the symbol of gatekeeping and bullying in the fandoms! I feel like the same would go for Maria; there is no direct confirmation, but I doubt many people can argue that she IS compassionate soul. Like... how do those toxic fans keep making the deep, compassionate, tragic female character into THE symbol of mockery, exclusion and aggression? Beats me.

It just deeply resonates with me how actions of the bad type of fans can create aversion to a character or a ship. I've had this phase with Mariadeline ship tbh. My advice would be - avoid searching content for the character/ship, try to find a tiny pool of people that likes them but are normal and respectful about it, allow yourself to feel identified with "normal fans of the thing" pool rather than dread of identifying with toxic gatekeepers by association... Like, the ship got recovered for me this way, same as Maria's character herself. Just remember that toxic fans and normal fans are not the same entity... It is a very rare case where division is HELPFUL! Hopefully you will be able to recover Malenia for yourself and not think of those l00sers anymore.

@mycopok I know Mal, easily the best person to have ever crossed BB fandom, and nothing will ever replace her </3 I am just happy that her positive influence still lingers even after becoming way less active, like... yeah, fans just should be allowed to explore any idea they want. Maria x Laurence is SUPER interesting concept! In fact, the initial post WAS made because of someone venting that they were afraid to post their Maria x Laurence stuff out of fear of being ostracised!

@underworldsheiress Yeahhhh again, you are not the first one I hear a story like this from. I also heard takes like 'tomboys are the grossest aesthetic, either come out as a trans or get back in line' (not exagerration). It is REALLY unfair how a woman looking masculine should be either her being a butch lesbian, or... well, no longer being a woman in the end. Infighting and forcing pointless norms on each other is a huge problem with LGBT+ community, you'd expect people to gather to support each other but... people will be people I guess :/ Anyways gigachad move of you to wear what you want.

@alma-amentet I don't quite agree with your tastes on body types maybe not gonna lie; However what you pointed out (not so much in the tags, I saw what else you said heh) is a very good example of how fandoms are open spaces and everyone should feel welcomed here. Like, the girls in the fandoms will have absolutely ridiculously specific tastes regarding male characters - not liking shorter height, not liking slim build, prettifying their canonically not-so-attractive face, judging them in sexy look contests, throwing insults towards their appearance quirks at times...

But once someone tries to pull similar things with female characters - all HELL breaks loose. Double standards in the fandoms regarding genders of the characters are absurd. I even once saw someone in BB fandom whining about how someone attempted to discuss which female character was hotter with them...... after we, as a fandom, CONSTANTLY have shit like 'sexyman contest who is sexier Mico or Brador vote now from your phones!!!!'. .... Like idk if you need to hear this as well or not, but everyone should be allowed to say 'muscular women aren't my taste' for the exact same reason why everyone is allowed to say 'muscular men aren't my taste'.

@fantomette22 @rhythmloid Devotees of the Biphobic Order are the bane of every western fandom's existence at this point for real though :/ They will see a female character that wears pants and kicks ass and start shaking over her like Gollum with The One Ring, ignoring all the context, nuance, her personal story, other possibilities, etc... Like I said - feelings of real people who just try to enjoy the fandom are more important than some toxic bunch's creepy obsession with the character they want to crown as their token masculine lesbian based on stereotypes, no less. I say if they really care about masculine lesbians, they should direct their activity towards real world and real people. Because, again - fandomry is not activism.

Anyways thanks everyone for speaking, and sorry if the tagging annoyed you or something fdsjhfh I really appreciate that, and I do hope you all will be able to find your own group in the fandom that'll keep you mentally safe from the toxic fans ruining characters for you. Like a power barrier in the middle of the chaos! I know I did find mine, lol

#dash commentary #long post #(wow look WHO is using a tag like this hahahaha) #fandomry rambles #disco horse #controversy #fantomette girl your tags are as long as my post itself fdhhdfhsd #you had a lot to get off your chest pffffft

[penelopecolinb]

hello friends. there has been so much talk of censorship in the polin fandom recently, and i feel that as someone who lives in a country with no free speech, i have more of a grasp on the subject.

no one in the polin fandom is being censored.

the ONLY form of censorship happening is authors moderating comments, which ALL authors have the right to do. i have several points to make about the people who claim that they're being censored. I hope I'm able to articulate my points in a manner that is respectful and easy to understand. There is no intention to point fingers or place the blame here.

Free speech, as i'm sure everyone is aware, is the right to express your opinions. Which also means the right to express that you dislike an opinion. This is directly translated on ao3.

The anonymous fic posted that was clearly a troll was in the right to do so - they did not call anyone out on that fic, they even had a character address the kinkshaming issue. The author of that fic also, and i'm sure some of you who read a certain post will be shocked to hear this, has the right to delete the comments they got under their fic, just as the authors of the noncon fics have the right to moderate the comments under theirs (which they do).

The very crux of the problem is that these authors who were writing noncon fics were using vague tags, or tagging BOTH noncon and dubcon. People have stumbled across these mistagged fics, and it has affected them mentally. I know personally that some people are making it a point to avoid the polin tag on ao3 this month for precisely this reason.

And because of this reason, the censorship claim cannot be used. It wouldn't have been sound anyway, because the noncon fics are still up for people to read if they want. These fics themselves have no hate comments on them, as the authors have their comments moderated.

People bringing up that anonymous fic and how it shouldn't be allowed on the platform. But why? Did it call out any specific authors? Did it violate any terms of service? Out of context it could still be read as a fic, so why should it be taken down? Sure, the passive aggressiveness of the fic is petty at best and offensive at worst, but that alone does not constitute censorship.

as someone on the sidelines, watching this squabble over fics has been entertaining at times, but ultimately absolutely draining. and reading someone's post about how authors are being censored and how we should be creating a more positive atmosphere was incredibly frustrating and patronising to people who have had their safe space violated by these mistagged fics.

as someone who faces censorship every single day; as a muslim who is unable to protest in her own country right now; as a polin fan and as an avid fic reader, i am imploring all of you to think before you speak. i am begging you to analyse everything that has happened, knowing fully how it has affected so thoroughly a group of people to the extent that they have avoided reading anything on the tag at all, and maybe put that victim card back in your pocket so you can wield it for something else.

#polin fic #polin fanfiction #polin #penelope featherington #colin bridgerton #if you would like further clarification on why this ISNT censorship #i would be happy to speak to you

[homosexualmorelikehomiesexual]

ok so...we all saw the flurry of Bandom Racism discussion happening. and i have...thoughts.

i know this is late, in theory because i wanted to get my thoughts together, but honestly mainly because i didnt know what to say, so part of me was annoyed that i felt obligated to say anything at all. bc im not nearly as active in bandom as my blog probably makes it look, i didnt learn 90% of the Lore until september and all of that i learned from mcrblr. im new! i dont know about any of this! much less about the racism. so...why am i expected to talk about it? what is there for me to say?

...and over the past few days, its slowly sunk in for me that thats exactly the point.

of COURSE i dont see the racism in the fandom, or know what to say about it. because either none of the other white liberal fans in my circle do, or we just... dont talk about it. and i think when we do know, we dont talk about it, because we feel like its not our place. we dont know what to say, and especially if we feel like we had any hand in it, we're... embarassed? i know i am. and like...i hesitate to list examples, because i dont want to come across as self flagellating. one, because its got to be annoying for people of color, and two, because...i dunno. i dont want to make other white people think thats whats required, to be anti racist? because i think thats one of the assumptions we're laboring under, like...we've created this environment of really aggressive Discourse, so when it comes to racism, and unpacking our own...we talk in really vague terms, we never get past the "UwU!!! Dont Be Racist!!!!" PSAs because naming our own transgressions means admitting to wrongdoing, which is embarassing at the best of times, but in the very spaces we've created, generally being found out as Doing Something Wrong means getting jumped on by other white people for the purpose of their own moral preening so no one will suspect them of the same. so...why willingly subject yourself to that? especially if whatever you have to say, whatever it is in your behaviour you want to discuss, may be triggering to people of color. simply not mentioning it feels like the better - and safer - option.

but...thats what leads to us not knowing enough about all this to feel confident talking about it in the first place.

i dunno. last week, im one of the people who looked right at that piece of art with franks rising sun tattoo, and went... "huh. hey, theres that tattoo he got covered up because it was offensive. i should look into that. ...anyway, cool art!" and hit reblog.

and like...once people started talking about it, (theres one specific post, forget who its by, someone talking about mcrs history with anti asian racism, great post thank you for making it) i felt...bad? but i also felt kinda defensive. in thinking back on it, i was like..."well, im glad to know that now. but dude im not familiar with his tattoos. i kind of assumed what i was looking at was the covered up version where its sort of peeking through. idk it was a watercolor it was kinda garbled. i wont blame myself for not thinking any harder than that."

and then i was like... okay but. if im honest with myself, thats still bad. because it doesnt matter, since i probably wouldve reblogged it anyway, just assuming it was for the sake of photo accuracy or what have you...because i still didnt fucking know or care what the rising sun flag was.

which was the whole point.

because if i HAD. if i HAD done my research when id first heard about it, months ago, i would have recognized that art for what it was and treated it with the wide berth it deserved and avoided it regardless of my knowledge of his stupid fucking tattoo. but i didnt, for a host of reasons. mainly executive dysfunction, general stress in my personal life (nunya bidness) and...if im being honest? i just didnt want to, because...i hate self teaching. i have adhd. i was homeschooled, it was really traumatic, i flunked all of highschool and had to get a GED. my reading comprehension and attention span are piss poor. so i didn't feel like looking into it. i didnt feel like giving myself a whole impromptu history lesson. i opened one wiki page and instantly got overwhelmed.

but thats also the point. because all those reasons for not doing my due diligence and reading up on why asian fans are so pressed about the rising sun tattoo? or why black fans want nothing to do with 21p? the same shit probably applies to them! they don't feel like doing it either, we just give them no choice until eventually they make giant ass posts, comprehensive, easy to digest, step by step posts, for the express purpose of doing what we all refuse to do.

and, again, theres that feeling of guilt. guilt and shame, because im admitting to this, and because i know how reading this is gonna make other white fans feel, because i just went through the exact same set of feelings, and its uncomfortable as hell. so i can only imagine how fans of color have felt.

im not making this to browbeat white fans, or to self flagellate to fans of color. this isnt a soap box or a confession booth. im just.. talking. so lets talk. im gonna be honest, i still havent done real research into the rising sun flag. im literally just now looking at the wikipedia page for imperial japan, which i just now opened, and i still feel just as overwhelmed. (does anyone have good material on learning about this? if i find any, ill post it in reblogs.)

but...yeah. this isnt an UwU!!! Dont Be Racist!!!! PSA. this is uhhhh...We're All A Little Racist, Lets Talk About It So We Wont Be. an open letter, i guess. cause we're doing and saying racist shit, intentionally or unintentionally, whether we realize it or admit it or not, and i think the majority of you who have read this far are, like me, mainly doing so through inaction. and i think the more we ignore that, the worse this feeling will get. so...lets stop ignoring it. i know we all just did exactly that, i saw it happen, i was part of it, i get the reasons why. but its delaying the inevitable, and more importantly, we're hurting other people because of it. so...lets just get it over with, it cant be any more embarassing than burying our heads in the sand.

#finnposting #bandom #racism #bandom racism #mcr #my chemical romance #gerard way #frank iero #ray toro #mikey way #fob #fall out boy #patrick stump #pete wentz #joe trohman #andy hurley

[thirdeyeblue]

Don’t mean to be intrusive but why do you engage with tenrose and rose haters?? All these tenm/rtha fans that you’ve been reblogging slander Ten, Rose and their relationship. And they pretend to support 9/Rose to not look so bad, but it’s sheer hypocrisy, they are straight up Rose antis in disguise and you can tell that because they always say they love “s1 Rose specifically” (which usually it’s said by people who hate Rose but don’t want to look bad, so they come up with that ‘I used to love Rose in s1 but she became so selfish, annoying and awful in s2’), then they call tenrose ‘shallow’ and ‘forced’, ‘downgrade from Nine/Rose’, ‘irritating’ etc. It’s also not rare to see them mocking Tentoo by calling him “a clone”, and dishing TentooRose. Don’t mind you liking the ship, but its fanbase don’t deserve our attention.

First of all, I apologize for the lengthy thought vomit in advance — I just woke up!

To be 100% honest with you, I’m such a casual Tumblr user that I’m a bit of a sweet summer child, here. 98% of my fandom engagement happens on Discord. 😅 I have occasional days that I might scroll for 15-20 minutes, but it’s usually more like a few minutes, if at all. This website stresses me out, makes me insecure, etc.

My point is: I don’t actually know any of the assorted tumblr beefs floating around, and I don’t really care. I try to avoid “anti discourse” like the plague if I do (see above: stresses me out)— So if I’ve been reblogging haters, it’s gone right over my head, because I just don’t think about it. It’s one of those “if I don’t see it, then whatever” things. I’d rather just be kind to everyone unless I’m given a reason not to (e.g. someone being a piece of shit to one of my friends)(which I probably wouldn’t have seen anyway).

Also… I’m not the most prolific person or anything. I don’t have a lot of followers, I came to game late, etc, so I didn’t necessarily think anyone cared one way or another what I was posting? For real, I feel a bit invisible on Tumblr most of the time 😂 I didn’t realize anyone would look twice at me reblogging something from an apparent “hater” when they can obviously look at my page and figure out what I’m really about. I’ve got a petition to bring back Tentoo, FFS, obviously I don’t deliberately subscribe to any anti-TenRose nonsense.

I’ve been told by a friend (one who is far more enmeshed in Tumblr than I am) that most T/M shippers hate Rose. So inherently, yes, I’m aware of that much — and realize that if I get one of the “based on your likes!” posts from someone who is clearly out there shipping that pairing specifically, they probably don’t care for my actual OTP… But if I’m reblogging something by one of these people with these blissful blinders on, I’d much rather look at it like “perhaps they’ll realize not all T/R girls are bad, and they’ll be nicer to them” as opposed to “I’m engaging with haters”.

Anyway — apologies if I upset you by supporting these people who’ve bummed you to anyone else out 💖 That wasn’t my intention, all I ever wanna do is spread love.

PS: The whole T/M subject is already a hairy one for me, because I didn’t even ship them at all (and I mean at all) until I was well into writing a fic about them. It just sort of happened organically/accidentally, and then I was like “Shit.” That being said, if you see my posts, you can probably tell that I’m extremely selective about what T/M stuff I do share here. I try not to reblog anything too shippy of them, because I do know my audience, even if it’s not a huge audience. My focus was always more “don’t reblog super romantic shit”, not “don’t reblog that user specifically”. If that makes sense. 😅

[xxlovelynovaxx]

Uhhh...

.

.

I feel like this is a prime example of "you are not responsible for how others (mis)interpret your art".

If someone reads incest into a completely platonic piece of art between two siblings... it doesn't obligate you to content warn for incest because someone MIGHT think siblings hugging or looking at each other is incest.

Like, you're doing your job by tagging it as the characters names. If someone is so squicked or triggered by incest that seeing siblings express affection is incest, they should have the tags for sibling characters blocked.

This is also where the platonic characterA&characterB tag would come in handy.

Tagging a romantic pairing or putting a cw for a romantic pairing very much implies that that is the intention of the artwork. You are not responsible for how other people react to your artwork, and you are doing your due diligence by tagging. Or even by leaving it untagged, honestly, when it's not content that could reasonably be expected to trigger or squick anyone. I mean, people don't even have to cw or tag that kind of content, but on a site without a "creator chose not to use warnings" autotag I think that should be the minimum.

But... you can block people. You can block tags for specific characters. You can emotionally regulate and deal with uncomfortable feelings when YOU assume platonic art is romantic. That's very much on you.

The idea that you should have to assume that any art you ever post of any two characters expressing any affection towards each other might be read as romantic and therefore should tag it as the ship and cw for it is... quite frankly, scary, but also, extremely amatonormative and allornormatibe. It just feeds into the idea that affection of any kind is inherently romantic (and therefore sexual) and that romantic (and sexual) interpretations therefore trump platonic intentions.

Quite honestly too, if you get so squicked or triggered by two characters interacting in a positive way that you need art tagged as the exact thing it's not to safely interact with fandom, you're simply not ready to safely engage with fandom.

Tags are for saying what something is, not what someone might misinterpret it as.

Like really, "Some people might think your innocent platonic art is actually incest so you should tag it as incest to make sure they don't see something that's not at all incest but that they'll get squicked by anyway. What do you mean this will prevent them from seeing any and all platonic art of these characters? Obviously you need to know that any art of two siblings could be read as sexual and therefore tag is as sexual even when it is the exact opposite of sexual. In fact, it's content warning incorrectly to not incorrectly tag platonic art as sexual. It helps people avoid their NOTP to make art that's not the NOTP ship then tag it as such," is the take of all time.

Is this satire? Am I on a hidden camera show?

#also I have to wonder if this person thinks it's okay to tag art as a ship for this reason when an artist explictly intended it as not that #hopefully not but #this opinion gave US the ick

[boilingheart]

i know its not quite the same scenario as navy seal, but ive highkey avoided ever talking about or publicly enjoying poly pirates content for the same kind of reason, but instead bc it involves shipping jay and chip.

like. yes, i know many people (including the jerboys) interpret them as having a more sibling-esque bond. I fully acknowledge it and I can even agree w it!* but i hate how it has been made that any other interpretation is not only wrong but also bad.

idk man like. i just hate how it feels like enjoying any dynamic of poly-pirates outside of fnc is wrong-- bc at that point, what is the point?

*i personally tend to see the two as very close, but the specifics of whether that closeness is platonic/familial or romantic depends on interpretation (whether of the individual, author, etc). they're two people who've found connection and safety in each other and also enjoy ribbing the other for jokes- what specific type of connection that is can vary for me, yknow? the type isnt the Core of their dynamic to me

(sorry the asterisk part got so long i just want to properly explain myself and dump a bit fjkdsjf)

Oh yeah, I'm 1000% with you on this. I mentioned navyseal cause that's my personal guilty pleasure that I am highkey obsessed with but had to keep it on the downlow after twitter decided it was just as bad as inc*st apparently (as someone who is very very deeply uncomfortable and revolted by that type of stuff in genuine, that shit pissed me off!!!), but this absolutely applies to Chip and Jay and polypirates as a whole. Hell, when I first started the show and didn't really have much fandom influence in my first 30 something episodes I was actually way more of a poly enjoyer

Anyways, as a whole I do sincerely think Chip and Jay work better as a platonic bond, I like this interpretation of their relationship better than romantic, but that doesn't necessarily make the ship bad or wrong you know? Literally ditto to everything you said in your asterisk I couldn't word it better myself.

Like bruh it really felt like these characters are stuck being bitchless fr LOL that whole twitter debacle made it feel like the only CORRECT ships were fnc and pistolwhip (as if fnc doesn't Also have some of the same dynamics listed in navyseal and chip/jay!! (although im certainly keeping my mouth shut further on that since people have started gunning to convince people fnc is a Bad Boring Ship, Actually, and it's better platonic (unrelated to the wlw vs mlm take that just happened there, big disclaimer (I spend too much time on twitter can u tell... there's so many shipwars there for no reason...))) anyways yeah there was just too many people trying to police these ships and instead of just being NORMAL and saying "oh X isn't my cup of tea I enjoy a familial/platonic bond between them instead" they start bending over backwards to prove that ACTUALLY it's PROBLEMATIC, SEE? And sourcing the boys' opinions on it doesn't Wholly matter to ships (unless it's in regards to boundaries, in which it Absolutely Matters) cause Bizly regularly dunks on fnc and that hasn't changed anything

This got very long winded sorry LOL I've been holding onto this irritation for a while now, it's one of the reasons why I'm trying to move away from twitter and come back to tumblr tbh. It is simply fandom culture to ship, and while I love fnc to absolute death as my main ship here, it's nice to explore some variety yk? navyseal has CRAZY potential cause of their parallels and their journey of self discovery and how much they deeply care for each other, polypirates is just a lot of fun altogether cause of all their personalities and that shared strong bond, then you have swordfish, fish² and chips, caspian/chip, marshall john/gillion, like, multishipping is FUN dude. Unless it's GENUINELY problematic or Actual Proshipping like twitter Claimed, I don't see the big idea. There is such thing as "Don't like, don't read". There is such thing as muting/blocking words and curating your own experience. You don't have to put down others because their enjoyment of something clashes with your personal interpretation of it. It's fandom bro!!!

#bheart talks #answered #shit man even typing this out i get nervous hitting post but man i KNOW im not wrong

[emberkeelty]

Gosh I have so many thoughts about the Sapphic Showdown discourse!

Personal bias disclaimer: I've never watched Supergirl and have zero interest in watching Supergirl. Meanwhile, Utena is one of my favorite stories ever that I consider a classic and a masterpiece. Under just about any conceivable context, if you were to ask me, "Which is better, Utena or-" I would cut you off right there and just say, "Utena." Okay? Okay!

I'm going to use this post as a jumping-off point. I'm linking instead of reblogging first of all because I don't want to make my followers have to read through OP's belligerence before getting to see whether I'm agreeing with or contesting it (I am definitely contesting it!) and second of all because I would rather if at all possible avoid dragging OP into a confrontation about this. I don't know anything about her beyond this one post that showed up on my dash via reblog. I have no reason to think she isn't a perfectly fine person overall. Also, just saying, she seems like she has good taste in anime. Anyway, that post is useful because it shows the brackets and also sums up what seems to be the central point of The Discourse:

this is just Exhibit A of Fandom People™ caring more about “shippable” characters and having “ship moments” than they do actual canon queer rep

First of all, I don't think the poll results actually mean much. For one thing, we know that paid bots get involved with polls like these. For another... as far as media that centers female characters goes, Supergirl is about as mainstream as it gets. It's live action, English language, and based on a corporate IP. Superheroes are currently fashionable and no longer even a little bit nerdy. Superman is the most timeless and well-known superhero of all, and most people have probably at least heard of his constellation of spinoffs. Supergirl winning a popularity contest over anything even a little bit more niche is just regression to the mean. All it says about the people voting for it is that they have basic taste, and I mean that in the least insulting way possible.

Second of all, let's say this is a demonstration of what the above sentence claims it demonstrates. In the context of a twitter popularity poll with zero real-world consequences... why would that even matter? What tangible harm is being done by LGBT people - and in the context of "Fandom People" who care either about f/f shippiness or actual canon queer rep (or both!), we are talking mainly about fans who are LGBT, many of them specifically queer women - getting more personal enjoyment out of something basic and mainstream than out of something politically important? How much impact is that really going to have on what media gets made going forward, let alone how LGBT women are treated more broadly on a societal level?

I would say it's actually the opposite of progressive to insist that the mere existence of LGBT people is so inherently political that we shouldn't ever get to relax and do normal, harmless human things like openly enjoying mediocre television, but must instead dedicate every moment of our lives to performing a political identity. The only actual utility value of a random LGBT person's personal enjoyment of media is the enjoyment itself. In this case, "let people enjoy things" isn't a cop-out, but a coherent ethical stance with the aim of maximizing utility.

I do think that some people who went for Supergirl over any of the other options might personally benefit on some level from broadening their horizons, and that personal benefit might in turn have some infinitesimal knock-on benefit to the broader community. But framing this as purely a matter of "supporting" the media with the "best" "representation" as part of a political performance is actively counterproductive to that goal, because it erases the possibility of joy in engaging with queer media and turns it into a chore - "eating your vegetables," as one particularly obnoxious old-school fangirl said in her infamous and widely mocked essay on engaging more with marginalized characters as an unpleasant but morally improving project rather than a labor of love.

Now, all of the above is pretty similar to stuff I've seen said before in the context of discussions about m/m fandom, which I have zero stake or interest in. What makes the Sapphic Showdown so interesting to me is that I have more specific in-depth knowledge and opinions on a lot of the media being discussed, so I'm going to get into some of my thoughts about that.

One thing that immediately jumped out to me was Alphyne from Undertale being held up as a canon ship that everyone should in every possible context care about more than whatever is going on in Supergirl simply because it is canon and therefore Actual Rep. Undertale is one of my all-time favorite games, and it means a lot to me that it contains a canon f/f couple, and I myself love Undyne and Alphys and have had way more intense feelings about them both as individual characters and as a couple than I will ever have about anything or anyone in Supergirl. BUT. It is worth mentioning that they are secondary characters whose relationship gets relatively little onscreen development. I think it is pretty understandable for audiences to get more emotionally invested in relationships that get more narrative focus, whether those relationships are actually canon queer or just shippy! Catradora is so compelling not just because they declare their love for each other and kiss onscreen, but because they do that as part of the climactic scene that the whole story was building up to. Catra's and Adora's love for each other and the thorny, difficult road they took to realizing it is the very heart of the show! And that "central relationship" element can be there even when the relationship in question isn't necessarily canonically romantic. I don't know how much that's the case with Kara/Lena, but one example I can point to is NagiHono from Futari Wa Precure. The show wastes an unfortunate amount of time establishing and maintaining plausible deniability about Nagisa's sexuality, but her het crush is only ever hovering on the margins of the story, where her ambiguously gay bond with Honoka is the very heart of the show. The two girls stand together against the end of the world, repeatedly putting their lives on the line for each other. To me as a lesbian watching this, it means something when Nagisa lies in bed with Honoka and says, "I'll be by your side forever, if you'll have me, even though I'm not good at domestic stuff," and when she calls her "my most important person," and the show's refusal to commit to this being what it looks like can't completely erase that meaning.

Another thing that needs to be said is that it's kind of hypocritical to be having this discussion over Utena in particular, given that the canonicity of Utena/Anthy in the tv series is... uh... complicated. Ikuhara was basically always treating it as romantic, but Saito was vehemently against that! In terms of what made it to the screen, the story only comes together thematically if you accept that they are in love, but it is possible to refuse to accept that without resorting to blatantly countertextual readings. Utena denies that her feelings for Anthy are in any way sexual as late as the third-to-last episode. It's clear that something big changes in the last two episodes when she regains her repressed memories and rejects her false prince, but she never has the chance to articulate that as explicitly as she articulated her earlier denials. And you know, I think any framework under which the Utena tv series could be treated as a lesser work than every and any show where two women explicitly declare their romantic love and kiss each other is not really a framework worth engaging with.

And really, the whole idea that the entire point of media as it relates to LGBT people is to have Good Representation is just a set-up for tearing down anything less than perfect - which is ultimately everything, because it's impossible for any one show to be all things to all people. We've seen this with people denigrating everything that came before She-Ra when Catradora kissed, and again with people denigrating She-Ra when Lumity got together mid-series rather than right at the end. Other people have explained how this is a really bad state of affairs for anyone who cares either about getting to see fictional LGBTQ characters on screen or about the well-being of the real-world LGBTQ creators who put them there, and I'm running out of steam, so I'll just point out that saying people's most important criteria in what ships they like should always be political purity feeds into it, and that's not good!

[mommyclaws]

i have genuinely never heard of a bluestar-hate video, what video is that??? o_o like. i am certain i won’t agree with whatever takes they have, but now i’m curious

You don't??? The damage it did to the warrior cats fandom for years after is still so vivid to me, holy shitt....

Before I start, I am not trying to start drama. I'm actually a fan of the op. This isnt a cancel or callout post. The video is probably 6+ years old now. No clue if it or the related videos are still up, but I'm not gonna go fishing for them and if someone else finds them, I'd appreciate if you DO NOT link it on this post! Just to avoid any drama yknow yknow

So to sum it up the video was basically saying that Bluestar is a bad person for what she did to Brightheart/Lostface and went on to nickpick things about her, like interpreting her personality as entitled and I vaguely remember some implication that she was judging ThistleClaw unfairly. Which is... fine on it's own. You don't have to like the character or the things she did, but they also had a similar video "defending" Thistleclaw. Obviously not in a condoning his actions kind of way, but it was something along the lines of "You guys are hating him for the wrong reasons. You should hate him for being violent and a gr*0mer. But he was actually nice to Snowfur and loved her so stop making art/content where he's mean to Snowfur!"

And it probably didn't sit well with alot of people because... what difference does it make?

And god I could rant, I could rant, I could RANT about why showing Thistleclaw in any positive light when it is common knowledge that a majority of this fandom are in middle school was not a good idea. And besides that, he canonly calls Snowfur and their son weak after she died. Thistleclaw isn't and was never supposed to be a sympathetic character.

I genuinely dont care if you like him or headcanon him, blah blah whatever. I'm not here to police people over fake cats. Idc. but any Thistleclaw defense is completely uncalled for and has no purpose when his fucking character is a canon ped0 and gr*0mer who might put the age group this book is made for at risk. The things he does in Spottedleaf's Heart are bad, and the book just never acknowledged that the gr*0ming and age gap were the issue, rather just the fact that he was training in the Dark Forest. I think this could be very easily misinterpreted by children because it doesn't show the true weight of how bad Spottedpaw's situation is.

But anyways, after those videos, the backlash against Bluestar was intense and there was definitely a bigger Thistleclaw fan crowd for awhile. I mean this spread like wildfire. Any video, art posted, or mention of Bluestar would always have a ton of people making unnecessary side comments like "I hate her but-" "I don't like her but-" etc. I would even see people link the video if you mentioned liking her😭?? Which is just 1. rude to say on someone else work and 2. Blantantly parroting for the video just because the op was popular.

I don't blame this video specifically, and I know the fandom is mostly kids- even more so back then- but I do think it had a bit of a part to play in how the warriors fandom has long since blurred the line between "This character is bad" and "This character did a bad thing."

Yes, Bluestar did bad things, but the narrative VERY MUCH portrayed those things as bad. The reader knows what she did was bad. The characters know what she did was bad. That was the entire point. Completely opposite of characters like Bramblestar, who do bad things but are defended by the narrative and it's way more appropriate to bring negative attention.

Imo Bluestar was one of the best written and tragic characters in the series and before that video alot of people agreed, but for years after it she was reduced to "She did bad thing so I can't like her anymore". The whole Bluestar stuff has blown off since and I'm glad, but it's so frustrating how many characters get this treatment as well lately instead of being seen as narrative tools.

You can comment and reblog stuff but if anyone starts dropping names, URLs, or video links I'm turning reblogs off okay?

#loooong post #‼Th/stleclaw mentions so TW if anything revolving him or talking abt what he did is uncomfortable #rant

[byers7wheeler]

Firstly I really, truly need you to understand you’re not a bad person for still enjoying the show and I am so sorry you’ve been made to feel that way.

I’m going to try and lay things out in a way that’s easy to understand:

Boycott - It can’t be boycott. ST is already getting made. Everyone is already getting paid. Nothing is stopping season 5’s release. People are being dramatic as hell and all you really can do to assist is cancel your Netflix subscription and not interact with posts on official pages (but absolutely post clips or screenshots etc same as usual for your own pages and enjoy them that way! For official accs it’s interaction levels people want to target)

You can also not buy merch, however if you receive merch as gifts from those who know that you like ST you are not a bad person for loving and keeping them!!! It’s not your money! I have to say that because I have seen others believe that, which is ridiculous. No logic to that.

“But then again there’s a literal genocide going on.” - Darling, it’s okay! It’s great that you show so much empathy, but there’s really only so much you can do. This specific situation is so dire, even things like donations as one normally would do to help have been discouraged because it’s not making it to the actual people! There’s a reason we sometimes feel helpless about it okay? You spread awareness when you feel you can, you go to protests if safe in your city, you write to any officials in your govt if safe to, you avoid giving to any brands you’re financially able to not support, and that’s kind of all right now. Recognizing your privilege in being able to step away when it feels mentally heavy is good too, but you’re still allowed to take a breather for a few days if needed. Nothing, absolutely nothing to do with your favorite show and your enjoyment of it.

The main thing:

A fandom is merely an extension of its source material, that is all fic writers, fan artists, video editors etc are doing. It is all fictional and removed from the streaming service. Nobody here is a marketing team - we all have SO much smaller influence than people think; we are not influencers, we are not promoters or journalists or review critics. Posting to your fandom feed does nothing. Posting to your personal Insta story about a new trailer? yeah that’s more promoting than sharing hype in a fandom space is.

If others can’t separate characters from actors, or are still at an immature stage where seeing someone’s face is enough to ruin their whole day and feel the need to change a character’s appearance because of it, or are unable to regulate themselves and step away and come back after cooling down instead of saying a million unnecessary things in the heat of the moment - that’s not my problem. It’s not your problem. They will try and make you think it’s your problem, what they’re saying and doing is truly morally correct (can’t be, they lack nuance in everything), that because they’re right you have to do exactly what they do - but you don’t. You can’t shut down a fandom and you shouldn’t. They can go away if they can’t separate things (and thankfully most are going away 🙏).

Nobody is pathetic or an asshole for still enjoying the show and everyone should keep an eye on the types of people who say things like that to guilt you (usually a fellow minor, mean spirited and often gets in random fights anyway, stans celebrities and isn’t used to a fandom where it’s understood fictional characters are not real people.).

Another big thing - it’s understandable to want opinions or talk things out with others, but I so discourage listening to anyone who tries to help but does so in a mean way (your gut will tell you). I say this because I saw you say the pressure of others is getting to you. Again I’m sorry, because that pressure is affecting so many people and it’s so good you broke free from that and asked instead of following blindly. So many of those people especially on tiktok will be minors and while they may know information, they don’t have a lot of experience and context to put it into and it’s all very surface level and performative. Not all of them, but definitely the one’s going for people’s throats. You’re 21 - find better sources and don’t listen to them. Step away from tiktok for a bit if you have to.

You’re not a shitty person. You’re not a shitty person. I hope you keep enjoying the show and when a wave of hate comes once filming starts or trailers drop I hope you stay strong! Try and find some people (preferably other mature adults) on tumblr or something to lean on! All love to you.

Omg anon you’re actually so fucking nice and sweet, I won’t even respond to all this I’ll respond more to your second one