#anyway fuck bi vs pan discourse

[cattytheartcat]

💜welcome💜

Been here since 2015, so I feel I should make an actual bio thingy. For those who has known me since 2015, I'm so so sorry for who I was then. I was 12 years old when I began Tumblr, and was immediately groomed and thought I was mature enough since my 13th birthday was the next day or so at the time. I'm 20 now, and learned from my mistakes and absolutely got therapy. Anyway uhh--

This will get rlly long so I'm adding a "read more" thingy so you dont gotta scroll through my post, but if you're new to my blog I advise checking this post out.

💜BASIC BIO💜

♡Catty

♡she/her [cis woman]

♡bisexual • polyamorous • spectrosexual

♡assistant Public Relations and assistant Music Department Head for PoniesOnline

♡artist, sometimes writer, shitposter, reblogger

♡Creator of The Matrix 5; Reformations AU, Ashesverse AU, Running Like Hell ARG, Slendyverse (MLP x Slenderverse) AU, Grand Eden Hospital, Nightmares In Paradise (fan spn) AU

♡creator of the blogs; Ask Psychosishy, Ask the Ashesverse, Ask the Hugoverse (multiverse of Hugo Weaving), Ask All MLP OCs

v--links to ask blogs--v

♡past creator of the blogs; Ask Slenderverse (deleted), Ask Zalgoverse (deleted), Ask all the mlp OCs (deleted for a long ass time lmao), RaveV blog (deleted), Smynth blog (deleted)

[Divider by etNoir on Deviantart]

💙DNI💙

《If you disregard any of this "just to spite me" you are getting blocked immediately》

☆proship/profiction (any content that fetishizes, sexualizes, glorifies and/or romanticizes pedophilia, zoophila, necrophilia, incest, abuse, etc)

☆loli/shota content

☆feral NSFW (feral x human, feral x feral, feral x anthro, etc)

☆LGBT-phobia (exclusions included. I.E ace/aro erasure, pan vs bi discourse, neopronoun discourse [not including obvious trolls that put a bad rep], etc)

☆racism, sexism, ableism

☆(irl person, ethnicity, etc) fetishizers (i.e, asian fetish, fat fetish, etc)

☆controversial content/persons (until clear evidence is provided during drama, I wish to NOT partake or be involved)

☆(irl people) shippers

⚠️BLACKLISTED USERS⚠️

☆TC/Simon/ChurchGrimmed [personal issues]

☆Dandelionmoths [personal issues]

☆Freakwolffreakish/Caresse/GoreyBloodyTeethsArts [groomer, erp as a minor character x an adult character, drama queen]

[Divider by King-Lulu-Deer on Deviantart]

💜frequent tags💜

♡important -> something I think is important to know. PSAs, warnings, etc

♡very important -> similar to the above tag, however much more urgent

♡wishlist -> things I might buy for myself

♡[name] aesthetic -> aesthetic posts that remind me of my OCs or favorite characters/people

♡[ship name] -> aesthetic posts that remind me of my ships

♡my art -> art I've made

♡old art -> art I've made from 2015-2020

♡amazing -> Tumblr classics baybee (funny or really bizarre things really)

♡other art -> artwork made by others

♡fanart -> artwork made by others for me

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♡towards toxicity -> vague posting towards toxic people who fucked up my heart big time

♡art tips -> helpful artwork tips!!

♡me fr -> stuff that I feel represents me!

[Divider by King-Lulu-Deer on Deviantart]

💙FIND ME EVERYWHERE ELSE LOL💙

Deviantart: CattyTheArtCat

Art Fight: CattyTheArtCat

Toyhouse: CattyTheArtCat

YouTube: Catty TheArtCat

Instagram: catty_the_art_cat

Discord: [gotta be someone I know lol]

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That's all really lmao. Yeah I may have been in some shitty situations and been a dumb fuck of a kid but uh. I'm better now weehee

Also even though my account says "NSFW", it's moreso because I post/reblog (cartoon/drawn) gore and blood and violence. Yknow, creepy Grimmdark Creepypasta shit. I also post/reblog suggestive content, maybe even sexual humor, but I never post flat out porn (at least, not anymore). Do NOT follow me if you're expecting trans fetish bullshit or cheap PornHub shit. I don't do that shit.

Another thing I wanna add is that even though I'm anti-proship, I DONT CONDONE HARASSMENT AND DEATH THREATS. That's just as low as the proshippers themselves, you are no better. Most proshippers are a hive mind (teehee The Matrix reference go brr), yknow, saying the same shit; "antis should kay why ess!!", "Minors DNI unless you're an anti", "being anti [pedo, rape, incest, etc] = evangelical puritanism even though they mean actually bad shit not kink and sex in general!!", etc. They are hypocritical bastards that push and push until they can milk out "receipts" to publicly shame you.

If you're an anti but go out of your way to "prove them right about antis being horrible", you are not welcome here. You are the reason why people prefer proship rather than. You are the reason why we are seen as the "bad".

☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆

Know me from petty immature drama? Here's some clarification!!

My stance with minors interacting with my accounts

My stance with Palestine [I also have a post about trying to support Palestine and Lahaina]

My response to the Pyro situation

My stance and response to Rashad

If you want more info or evidence for any of these DM me and we can talk it out like actual mature adults 👍

[hadacol]

Pansexuality is when you're attracted to multiple genders and feel the label "pan" best describes your experience

Bisexuality is when you're attracted to multiple genders and feel the label "bi" best describes your experience

No sexuality is inherently more progressive and bi vs pan infighting only serves to distract from the real enemy: multi level marketing schemes

#this is an mlm joke because i am salty that pyramid schemes share an acronym with me #hey wanna join my pyramid scheme about making out with other men 👀 #anyway fuck bi vs pan discourse #pan #pansexuality #bi #bisexuality #edit: omg this got so many notes again suddenly #what happened?? is there new drama that i am missing??

[spacemiddenzz]

if i catch you putting panphobic and aphobic nonsense on my dash im gonna beat your ass. your opinion has no weight and im not gonna concern myself with you. go outside

#im so done #had to block two of my mutuals pls just fuck off #go outside #when are you going to realize that the language someone may use to describe themselves may not be perfect but they are still queer #and thus have experiences similar to yours #no cishet is going to look at a bi person vs a pan person and treat them any differently #your nonsense discourse is going to do more to tear us apart than bring us together #and that’s what they want #not to be a commie on main but fight the real enemy #anyway #rambling

[fanpersoningfox]

Did I just unfollow a blog I really liked for being panphobic? You bet I did.

Fucking unfollow me right the fuck now if you believe that pansexuality is biphobic and/or transphobic.

But also unfollow me if you believe that bisexuality is transphobic or some shit.

This entire discourse is so incredibly pointless, go punch nazis instead.

#hearts not parts #two #two-sexuals #yeah the slogan is shady as fuck #but that's not the point of pansexuality anyway #the point is that some people are hella fucking uncomfortable calling themselves something that literally has in the label #i'm not out here calling bisexuals nbphobic for literally being called and reinforcing the gender binary #because i recognize that the word comes from a different time and the meaning has evolved #i'm not calling bisexuals out for keeping a label that upholds the notion that there are two genders purely out of sentimentality #so y'all shut the fuck up about my label promoting whatever kind of bullshit you say it does #i'm a genderqueer/nonbinary/third gender person and the term bisexuality makes me uncomfortable #but i keep quiet about it because I recognize that the entire bi vs pan debate is fucking useless #they're just words #and to some people they're important so can we fucking leave people be?? #fox rants #fox rambles #discourse

[renthony]

I like the part where I can’t post anything about bisexuality on this hellsite without SOMEONE dragging up bi vs pan discourse where it’s not even relevant.

Y’all remember that wave of posts a couple years ago with countless screenshots about how reddit incels were gonna try to intentionally drive a wedge between bi and pan communities? And how we should all be careful not to fall for it? Because it was a shitty and blatant attempt to turn us to infighting instead of collective liberation?

And everyone fucking fell for it ANYWAY?

Because I remember.

#original post

[angelfagz]

Different anon here and tbh feel free to delete this cause I’m sure you don’t want your blog to become a bi/pan discourse hot spot, but anyway: I’m bi, and yes I think bi and pan are synonyms, and any distinction anybody tries to make for why they use one word or another is kinda bs beyond like, “I like the flag colors better”, but also I think that discoursing about pan being biphobic or bi being transphobic or whatever is really pointless. I don’t think it’s productive to make huge blanket statements about identities or to police the labels people choose to use personally. Because, really, whether somebody is truly “biphobic” can’t be determined on anything other than a case-by-case basis. Like, if I meet somebody, bi or pan, personally and they start going on about like the distinctions between the two labels I’m probably gonna like try to refute that. But the thing is, imo, it is never, never ok to make a blanket statement like that about a group of people based on their identity. Because that’s always gonna be a large group of people, and nothing you say can ever apply to everyone. There are a million reasons somebody who could have heard the word “pansexual”, a word that’s been around for like 30 years at least, and been in popular use online for a decade at least, and felt like it resonated with them, and only a fraction of those reasons have to do with that person beliving that the bi label is inferior. And ultimately? It kind of comes down to me believing that I don’t have the right to stick my nose into somebody else’s business. I have no right to tell another person what label to use for themself. That is a deeply personal thing, and people have the right and the free will to make any choice for any reason and I’m not gonna try to stop them. At the end of the day bi/pan discourse just serves to break up a community of people who really have everything in common, like yes we are the same! But open fucking hostility does more to fracture a community than marching side by side at pride with a different colored banner ever did, and I’m kind of sick of it. Like if some individual is being a pretentious asshole fuck them, sure, but I’ve met lovely pan people who make the world better just by being in it, and I’m not gonna fight with them.

as I said before the problem with the pansexual label is that the sole reason it exists is out of a misunderstanding of what "bisexual" means in the first place. whether that be "hearts not parts" or "bi means two" any reason to use the term "pansexual" over "bisexual" is out of a misunderstanding of what bisexual means and of bisexual history, whether a conscious choice or not. regardless of what the people using the label think (and they are by-and-large not blameless, seeing as consideration goes into choosing which of the two labels you use; whether that be a choice based on misinformed notions of what bi means vs what pan means, or due to a lack of research on the part of the person using the label) the label itself is fundamentally bad due to its existence as a "woke bi alternative" as though being bisexual is exclusionary in the first place. all labels like "pan", "omni", etc serve to do is to muddle the definition and perception of bisexuality. I do not go out of my way to start fights with people use the pansexual label, and I do not believe people are automatically "evil" for identifying as pansexual but I do ask that they examine why they picked that identity over bisexuality, a synonymous identity with decades more of real history. and I'm sorry, but "I like the flag colors more" is just way too shallow a response for a question like that. and speaking as a trans person? it does make me really uncomfortable to see its use so widespread considering one of the original reasons the term exists.

#long post

[yoshiyakiryu-archive]

Bi vs pan discourse is stupid

Gonna make a new term for my orientation the definition of which shall be "have you ever thought about how gender is a weird thing to base all attraction around? I mean it's a barely definable concept made up of infinite variables anyway and if I had to hazard a guess we only do it because we've been socialized to desire extreme sexual dimorphism in colonial cisgender heterosexual society and any deviation from expected gender roles is a punishable offense resulting in the need for those who transgress gender lines to band together to find community and resistance against a society that deems them unacceptable and would seek to rewrite them to something that can assimilate or die and for me, personally, ideally we'd live in a society that would allow us to experience or not experience attraction as we will on our own terms and definitions without having to excuse it or point fingers but since we don't your infighting is the most ass backwards dumpster logic I have recently had the misfortune of beholding with my own poor eyes"

And I'm going to call it "fuck off"

#behold an ego #discourse #YOU HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS #KISS AND MAKE UP #vent #negative

[norgestan]

I’ve tried to have this discussion before, but the context of the fact that so many fans from Spain (and even the cast) say stuff like “pansexuality isn’t real” or make fun of/insult people who identify as pan and say “that’s not part of our culture” is exactly the reason WHY some fans take issue with skam espana’s “bisexuality vs pansexuality” scene more than other versions. Because you just can’t separate the intention of the scene and how +

I’m sure the creators knew it was going to be received by the home audience, from the dialogue and message of the scene. Does that make sense? I don’t know if I’m getting my point across. I just feel like so many people like to pretend that certain fans are just being hypocritical for being upset by that scene in skam espana more than the og/other remakes, but that added context IS there. (2/2)

i can totally agree with you on the first bit, i feel like there’s definitely people who have taken it too far. i myself agree with the spanish view of pansexuality yet i would never go out of my way to attack people for identifying as pan (in my ideal world everyone takes a look of what the debate should really be about so we can be civil in regards of this issue... but this is social media and stan circles we’re talking about, so LOL).

however, and at the cost of stirring this fully rotten issue one more time... how is the dialogue and framing of the scene in itself a form to validate the “pansexuality isn’t real” debate in spain??? like, let’s look at the facts. this is how the dialogue goes down like:

viri: so does this mean you’re a lesbian?

cris: no! i mean, no. i don’t know. i know i like joana, and that’s it.

eva: either way, you used to really like guys. a lot.

cris: yeah! fuck, i still like them, girl, i don’t know, i’ve always liked them.

nora: then, you can be bisexual, no?

cris: maybe. it’s just that i don’t know what the categories are, i mean, how am i supposed to know what’s mine?

viri: let’s see, there’s not that much confusion anyway? you’re either lesbian or bisexual, no? and now "pansexual” is there too, no?

nora: girl, that’s the same thing. bisexuals like the people of their same gender and the opposite gender... i think.

eva: well now, you guys are getting intense. the important thing is, [to cris] are you happy?

this is the point in which the conversation clearly deranges. when viri begins to talk about how cris could be a lesbian, bi or pan, amira is literally facepalming herself and eva is laughing in the background. when nora jumps in to correct viri, eva realizes that it has gone for too long and dismisses the two girls to shift the conversation back to cris. i actually really appreciate how awkward this entire scene feels lol, because it’s a realistic outcome and it really balances the girls’ love for cris vs their incapacity to handle this subject well, as they’re all (so far) cis and straight girls. and to an extent, that’s the intention of the scene, to show that they all have good intentions but can say the wrong things anyway (discussing cris’ sexuality when she had just told them she is not sure/doesn’t know enough, viri immediately asking if they have had sex, eva implying that cris can’t be attracted to girls because she was really into guys some months ago and then the comment about their sex life, etc). and it’s the same thing that happened with lucas’ coming out scene in s1: eva told lucas that she and jorge had discussed the possibility of him being gay, and then she fires back at him with the whole cristian drama. but in both scenes, the important thing is that despite their ignorance regarding conversations of LGBT+, they’re supportive of them and there for each other, and in the long run, willing to learn and create a safer space for them (see: lucas’ youtube video where eva and him discuss homophobic microaggressions). and of course there’s never gonna be a perfect reaction: skames did a really good job showing a realistic coming out that is positive for the protagonist and in line with its imperfect characters’ personalities and experiences.

so like, in what universe is this scene meant to discredit pansexuality and pansexuality alone, when the phrase happens in the context where the girls are discussing something that literally NO one in the room understands? and it’s not like you have to look reaaaaally hard into it to come out with the fact that 17 y/o cishet girls aren’t the most versed about the lgbt+ community, it’s LITERALLY explicitly stated that no one is sure about what they’re talking about (cris outright says she hasn’t done any research, viri is trying to be supportive all while having conflicted feelings about cris being with a girl lol, and nora’s straight to the point “...i think”). and even then, it’s not like nora says anything incorrect: i’m pretty sure pansexual people can agree that both pan and bi people are attracted to the same group of people. and when i was in high school, most people around me couldn’t tell the difference between the two either. (way better than saying matter of a fact that pan people are attracted to genders and bi people are atracted to sexes, cough cough)

anyone could watch the scene and understand what the intention was. when i watched the clip years ago, i had no idea of the spanish perception of pansexuality and didn’t until i entered the fandom (although i had heard the discussions about pansexuality in other circles) and the scene does NOTHING to educate you about LGBT+ culture and history in spain (how can they when it’s established that these girls aren’t well-versed on the subject?). the only thing you could come out from that scene, is that these girls... kinda don’t know shit about it.

i can totally see why people can have problems with the pansexuality discourse in the skames and skamverse fandom, as well as the comments that came from the cast. and as i’ve said multiple times now, you don’t have to justify yourself if you don’t wanna watch a remake, and no one can tell you what to do about it: the decision is entirely yours. however, i completely disagree that the showrunners’ intention was to make a statement on the validity of pansexuality because of spain’s culture. and i lack the knowledge to make this point, but i find it hard to believe that the pansexual issue in skames is the only example on the skamverse of creators, actors and fans sticking up to a plotline/comment that invalidates or harms a minority group.

#answered #long post #skam españa #y'all shoudl just... blacklist my asks tag LMAO i'm very sorry

[candyredterezii]

Can you explain your stance on the bi vs pan discourse please

oh boy here we fucking go

anyway i’ve reblogged posts like this plenty of times but here’s a post I made like months ago so take it or leave it

tl;dr or dont wanna click the link

pan and bi are interchangeable terms and mean essentially the same thing and people can ID however the fuck they want and it’s no one’s business to tell them they should ID as X over Y.

#Anonymous #candyredask

[vtori73]

*me recalling a post someone shared on labels*

Okay... it's still bugging me so I'm going to just talk about it. So, a post I saw ON HERE not twitter or Instagram or anywhere else but HERE where I normally don't expect to see posts like this waa reblogged to my dash. Im not going to say it's necessarily all bad but I am still a bit surprised that I saw it & just... doesn't really, at least too me, make any good arguments and more so comes off as wanting to police identities & caring more about understandability then actually caring about LGBTIA+/ Queer people.

Instead of forcing you all to scroll through my whole post if you don't want to read my word vomit I'll add a read more (quick cw for brief mention of harrasment/assault):

Now the basic gist of the post was wanting people to change the conversation of if certain labels are "valid" to "are these labels necessary or useful" which... in my honest opinion I think both conversation either way are kind of... pointless. They just feel like they kind of take time away from actual important topics that we, the LGBTIA/Queer community, should be having. Why are we still bothering with this pointlessness of labels similar to how people are overly obsessed with flag discourse or slur discourse NONE OF THIS ACTUALLY MATTERS FOR FUCKS SAKE in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not saying some labels can't be problematic of course... well probably. Like, for example this one I heard someone bring up that was put on a wiki about "wanting to have pure bloodlines" or something like that but... I feel like I shouldn't have to explain ALL of the why's to why that one shouldn't count as a legit example. Anyway, I bring this up because this WAS brought up as a counter to the argument someone made about labels, most likely a pro-label argument I don't remember exactly what was being said though this was Twitter not Tumblr though so it was unrelated to the post I'm discussing here.

This tumblr post I saw just seems like the thinking/foundation for what I see a lot in the gate-keeping LGBTIA+/Queer community. Bi people who are Panphobic using similar arguments against each other or against the other lesser known mspec identities such as Omni or Poly. Or more recently the arguments against mspec lesbians or more specifically bi/pan-lesbians and usually the arguments I find being used against these labels make LESS sense then pro-labels people who go "labels are valid."

Anyway I bring this up because when it comes to people against labels, discussing the importance of legitimacy of labels, and similar arguments tends to sound exactly like the arguments people who do police identities and such like transmeds, terfs, homophobes, biphobes etc. Why do our labels NEED to be useful, need to be understood? We don't seem to care about straight, cis, allo people understanding so why should we care when it comes to people within as well? Being "understood" also seems kind of... what's the word... "Pointless?" No, not exactly what I was going for but... it's close enough. Even when non-queer people DO understand us and our labels it doesn't somehow automatically make them allies to us, even the self-proclaimed allies who understand can still work against our best interests so why are we putting importance in ANYONE understanding our labels?

For example purposes I will breakdown the arguments against the label.

Okay so, people who are doing what op said they wanted to see more of in the post I'm referencing here were basically saying (that's isn't just x is bad) "Bi lesbians are harmful to the Lesbian community because men will use it as an excuse bother us/it shows men were available to them. Bi lesbians are also bad because they are tearing down something Bi people worked hard for, to have their own separate community. Bi-lesbians also are bad because terfs created the term."

Alright, so for the first point this one isn't obvious to some but is for many other how messed up the argument is because it basically amounts to nothing more then victim blaming, basically "your asking to be harassed by men if you can possibly be attracted to them" which is a huge slap in the face to straight, but ESPECIALLY bi women who ARE statistically more often victims of abuse. Not to mention this argument makes less sense you you recall that lesbians often DO voice how men will continue to hit on them REGARDLESS of what they say their sexuality is so if straight men decided to use "bi-lesbians" as an excuse one day it only really proves how insidious they are and not the labels legitimacy.

For the second point this is normally made by Lesbians and... look im not saying you can't speak up for us but what made this even WORSE specifically was that Lesbians at the same time were saying that ONLY Lesbians can speak on this "bi-lesbian" discourse which just... voids any good will they may have had initially. You don't GET to speak about others identities & their histories while ALSO telling them to shut the fuck up because thats NOT how this shit works especially when you're spouting ahistorical nonsense. Which yeah, they were/are. The argument was not only bad because of the speaking over Bi people but it was also just legitimately WRONg... well, maybe at the least just glosses over some BIG details. Like, for example that, yes, Bi people DID work hard to make their own space BUT were you also aware that Bi people WERE apart of the Lesbian community with open arms for a time before political lesbianism became a thing & took power in the Lesbian community which resulted in kicking out anyone they didn't like because I feel leaving that out is kind of wrong but I guess it does make their argument look bad. Also not to mention that as a Bi person bi-lesbians don't bother me, they don't negativity effect Bi people just by existing so I have no qualms with them & a decent amount of other Bi people feel the same so... like I said before don't speak for a community you're not apart of, especially when you're also telling us to shut up at the same time!

The last point is also wrong, I'm not bringing up sources but basically the idea that terfs started is actually, you guessed it, due to terfs! Sorry.. that's probably confusing but actually terfs don't like the label so they started the misinformation that terfs(& similar) started it to get people against it which makes sense if you understand who terfs hate. Terfs, specifically the ones within the lesbian community are not much different from political lesbians & I wouldn't be all that surprised if thats what a lot them were or would have been if that was still a thing. I would say a closer equivalent would be "gold star Lesbians" or anyone who thinks it's a good term but ANYWAY the point was that a lot the Lesbians who hold one of these beliefs/identities TENDS to hold the other because they aren't all that much different so it's easy to see why they would want to destroy the term vs actually want it around.

I almost forgot one part of the argument though, and that was that the misinformation was that "terfs created it too separate trans lesbians from the lesbian label" which... Look I'm sorry but if you know terfs this honestly doesn't make all that much sense, yes terfs ARE mainly against trans people it's in the name but don't lie and tell me that plenty of terfs also haven't been found to be against queer, bi, & asexual people as well so I don't see them wanting to ever create the term "bi-lesbian" even if it is to be transphobic. But if we disregard that line of thinking the argument also falls flat when you immediately just... TALK to any Bi-lesbian and ask them why they use label because most who use it tend to be non-binary people who have fluid genders and thus have complicated relationships with their sexuality. Even then some just use it too mean they have strong connections to the Lesbian community for whatever reason! There are probably other reasons but my brains fried so that's all I'm listing but I feel like my point should have sank in by now anyway.

So, after having bare through my long example I hope my point has gotten through but if it hasn't I will summarize: not all labels in the end are going to be "helpful, useful, or needed" BUT that's doesn't make them bad just because of that fact and policing labels & identities in the end is more harmful to the community then not. Instead of caring whether a label is useful or not let's instead focus on making sure we don't allow harmful, bigoted rhetoric and thinking to continue to thrive and permeate our communities, whether online or not so we can keep them from overtaking our spaces... again. And if there really are ACTUALLY harmful labels popping up let's MAKE SURE they are actually harmful and then deal with them accordingly!

Note: if your curious as to why I wrote "LGBTIA+/Queer" I'm going to explain below:

Basically I do it because I feel its weird to put Queer in the middle of acronyms that fall under the queer umbrella. Not to mention that I think it makes more sense to have it be a separate thing considering plenty of queer people don't care for the term being used for them or with them/etc. I like to use Queer for all people who can fall under the term & are accepting/ok with it being used for them more then I like to use the acronym but the acronym is good for anyone who doesn't like to use Queer or for allies to use. I'm not saying it's perfect thinking or other people should change how they use the labels/acronym but that's just my reasoning and I don't see any actual negatives too it so I used it here but as always I'm open to being wrong!

[topsydead]

shit lets be discourse

I peeked at ace/mogai discourse, and it was a mistake. I don’t understand these people at all. They hate the split-attraction model so much, like, I didn’t even know it had a name? it’s just so normal to me? (That’s the concept of having both a sexual orientation and a romantic orientation.) And then they turn around and use the split-attraction model to claim that “aces are cishet” which fucking rustles my goddamn jimmies, like, they are calling me, a trans ace person, cishet. They don’t know they’re doing that, of course. They probably think all trans people may politely excuse themselves. But ace people are who I am. When you say “ace people are ___” I am listening, and you are talking to me. You call me cishet, and I am filled with porcupine quills. I did not come this far to be called cishet. Here’s the logic, btw-- “Ace people can be heteroromantic, and aro people can be heterosexual, so therefore aroaces are het.” When called out, I’m sure they say “well I don’t mean all, of course” but that will not stop them from using it to the point of “ace people aren’t LGBT, period” Listen to me now. If you reject SAM, then no ace person is ever het. If you accept SAM, then aces and aros are, between them, all types of sexual and romantic orientation, including bi, het, pan, lesbian, gay, and everything. Saying “ace people aren’t LGBT” or even better, “ace people are cishet” is ALWAYS WRONG if you reject SAM, and NOT NECESSARILY TRUE, AND THEREFORE WRONG WHEN TAKEN IN ABSOLUTE TERMS if you accept SAM.

Did I mention that rejection of SAM is rejection of aromantic allosexuals and I hate it?

Anyway point is, if you try to kick all ace and aro people out of LGBT space-- or try to shit on them-- as a group and on principle, you’re being gross and incorrect and you need to rethink your life.

And wow. Never thought I‘d live to see the truscum vs. tucute behavior come back as the LGBT vs MOGAI discourse, that’s a fucking Halloween miracle for me personally. MOGAI is literally just a different acronym, there isn’t different people in different acronyms, we aren’t split into camps, we don’t have exclusive members, and we’re all exactly cringe as the other. All the behavior you think you hate about MOGAI is the behavior cishets get on all of everyone queer for. You think being NB is new? You think aces are a new thing? You think furries are new? You think sapiosexuality is a new concept? Sorry to bust your bubble but the mystical entity known as “MOGAI” didn’t make these things exist, or even start the terminology, not by a fucking long shot. All you’re doing is pushing queer people into camps and making them strawman eachother until we all fall apart. And, YES, everyone is to fucking blame. I’ve seen this shit behavior from lesbians, NBs, aces, trans people, and all sorts of types and combinations. And everyone’s calling eachother mogai and exclusionists and TERF and cishet and all sorts of things, I’m not even fucking sure who’s participating anymore. All I know is it’s hell and I hate it. Yeah, we can talk about the problematic nature of some stuff, like I’m still not on board with sapio cause it seems ableist but I’m willing to listen...? And some queer people think that pedos and drag queens and furries and cishet women are included in MOGAI and hate the idea of being lumped together, and some people think that intersex people shouldn’t (or don’t want to) be included in any of these things, but fuck, who am I to decide, right? But that doesn’t make MOGAI some sort of magical enemy, it doesn’t make aroace rejection any less reprehensible, and it doesn’t make LGBT the best or most valid term in the world. And last, I fucking love wlw, but why the hell are y’all always at the forefront of this bullshit? What is happening??? It makes it feel like an extension of TERF bullshit, even though plenty of wlw aren’t terfs and are great people... I just don’t get why this keeps happening. And don’t give me any lines like “lesbians are tired of dealing with men’s bullshit” because we are so far beyond that with this. That’s some hard, surface-level reductionist shit and meanwhile we’re out here swimming in the void. Unless that IS the general concept. In which case, I’ll gladly take a trip to the moon and punch Aphrodite in the fucking face. Let me be clear: lesbians (coordinately and as a group) literally attacked me, personally during a critical time in my life, and hurt people close to me that I care about. I’ve also met super chill lesbians who are great and helped me and my network a lot. What I’m saying is that being a lesbian doesn’t make you the goddess of the queers or the arbiter of labels or the holy gatekeeper of what is and isn’t oppression. It gives you no fucking rights at all except the same ones all humans get just for being human. It makes me sad that every time I see a queer person is shitting on other queers on this hellsite, it’s a wlw. If someone can give me an honest explanation I would love it. And if you happen to actually be a terf. Well. Fuck right off and never come back. I’m super done and never coming back to this discourse.

#content warning #like every kind of content warning #mogai hell #ace rage #mogai discourse #anti terf #aspec discourse #should i just delete this

[musingsfromtheclosetofanunk-blog]

A Small Sample Size

Okay, so jumping a bit into discourse and then hopefully leaving it forever because something just pissed me off so much in every way.

There was a post reblogged a while ago by an account I really liked, no I am not currently following them, that showed four or five screen shots of singular comments, so five comments at a maximum, of people who were supposedly asexual (and I say supposedly because the people never themselves stated they were asexual in the posts) that were insulting the Pulse shooting and saying something along the lines of “well it’s no great loss” and implying it was because no one at the Pulse shooting was asexual. The blogger then added the phrase “no wonder people hate asexuals” and listen, listen. Fuck. You.

Let me tell you why. (First off, yes those people are fucking horrible and fuck the people who wrote that too because goddamn. How can you say that about LGBT+/MOGAI people??? How can you say that about people in general??? Fuck you for saying anyone one deserves to die like that.) But why it pisses me off is because you are taking these few people and excusing literally everything done to the larger asexual community. You wanna play this game? Then you better be fucking ready to hate on every fucking person you’ve ever met. 

How many people from the greater LGBT+/MOGAI group has ever told asexuals that they deserve to be raped or killed because  “hey you aren’t going to reproduce anyway” or anything along those lines? How many people have told bisexuals they’re just confused? How many people have fought over pan vs bi and said on group or the other was disgusting/deserved death etc? How many times have trans people been told they aren’t valid and are only that way because of trauma or confusion or mental illness? How many times have nb folk or genderfluid or another group been told they don’t actually exist and stop being “special snowflakes”?

and if you’re now thinking “well yes that’s what the straight people do, not anyone else” take a minute to fucking go through the discourse tags or fuck ea lot of the times even the positivity tags. You’ll see LGBT+/MOGAI people tearing each other a part. Trans binary people tear into nonbinary and the other way around. Lesbian and gay people tear into bisexual and vice versa. Bisexual and Pansexual people tear into each other. Hell look at the word TERF and others used to actual describe this type of behaviour. 

If you’re going to take the logic from above and say “hey ya asexuals do deserve all the shit they get” then FUCK YOU YOU SMALL MINDED POPSICLE STAND OF DIPSHITTERY. Stop taking one extreme bit of the group and look at the bigger picture. Maybe even step the fuck away from Tumblr or follow/unfollow a few people. 

Because let me tell you, I’ve almost fallen into a similar hole. One where you start to think all the anger and ranting and hatred on Tumblr is all there is to see in the world. It isn’t. Even on Tumblr you just need to follow a few different people to leave that world behind. Everything changes depending on who you are following. 

So please, please, please remember that every community has assholes and every community has bad people, but those communities are also filled with amazing people. And for the love of all of existence, remember that behind all of these posts are actual people. you are talking and communicating with actual people. The person who rebloged that post told a whole group of people that they deserve hate and death threats and rape threats (and often times it doesn’t end at threats) because of five fucking posts they saw on Tumblr. 

To those people who do this, sincerely, Fuck You. 

#curses #asexual #aphobia #lesbian #gay #transgender #queer #mogai #lgbt+ #death #rape #anger