#aren't included as ace people. It's an inclusive 'and' for an inclusive flag.

[lesbianlake]

Welcome to Lesbian Lake!

We are your hosts, and we'll be showing you around! This lake has a lot to offer, but we would like to stress that it is first and foremost a safe haven for lesbians of all kinds- as long as you are not an exclusionary jerk.

We welcome trans lesbians of all kinds- including but not limited to transfem lesbians, transmasc lesbians, nonbinary lesbians, genderqueer lesbians, lesboys, multigender lesbians, and genderfluid lesbians. We also welcome ace and/or aro lesbians, bi/pan lesbians, polyamorous lesbians, queer lesbians, and any other lesbians who also use other labels to describe their attraction or identity. We welcome butch lesbians, femme lesbians, non-she/her lesbians, fat lesbians, hairy lesbians, lesbians of color, lesbians with deep voices, intersex lesbians, disabled lesbians, poor lesbians, young lesbians, old lesbians, kinky lesbians, lesbian sex workers, plural lesbians, studs, fishes/stems, and more.

The only lesbians who aren't welcome here are those who are against any of these things. All inclusive lesbians are welcome here, lesbianism is diverse, complex, and has a rich history. We are not a safe space for TERFs/exclusionists of any kind, you will be blocked on sight.

This blog welcomes people regardless of gender or sexuality, but please be mindful that this is first and foremost a place for lesbians. Be mindful when reblogging our posts. We do not tolerate derailing.

Check below the cut for more information about our blog and what we do!

Things that will get you banned from the lake:

Being a pedophile/zoophile, a TERF, an exclusionist, anti-neopronouns/anti-MOGAI, or a radqueer.

Derailing our posts and/or trying to distance our posts from lesbianism.

Tagging our things with 'q slur.' You are more than welcome to filter the word 'queer' if you don't want to see it, but don't project your discomfort onto us or our posts.

Showing disrespect to our mods or sending anon hate.

Starting discourse on our posts. This is not a discourse blog. This is a lesbian safe space. If it's a topic that hasn't come up before that we feel educated enough on, we will state our stance on it once. That's it.

Demonizing lesbians or affiliating anything with the word "lesbian" in it with TERFs.

Anything else that we deem block-worthy because at the end of the day we are choosing to run this blog and have no obligation to let anyone interact.

Things that the lake has to offer:

Lesbian positivity posts

The three mods here are three of the same mods that are at @wlw-concepts, and we'll be running those blogs side by side.

Lesbian headcanons

Lesbian pride icons/edits

Lesbian flags

"Lesbian culture is ____" asks. While we are not specifically an "x culture is ____" blog, we definitely enjoy seeing these types of asks!

Other things relating to lesbianism!

If you need something signal boosted, please just send an ask to us with the link to your post or your GFM/Venmo/Paypal/etc. and we will gladly boost it.

Stuff that is overly controversial or stuff that is too likely to start unnecessary discourse.

Types of things that are banned at the lake:

Discourse (apart from the stating our stance for the first time exception, and only if we feel educated enough on the discourse to say something).

Mods of the lake:

Nebula Mod - Early 20s, mixed black/native butch trans lesbian. Any pronouns.

Moon Mod - 18, Indigenous Blasian trans lesbian. Sun/moon/he/she pronouns.

Firework Mod - Adult, white genderqueer nonbinary lesbian. She/they pronouns.

#pinned #lesbian

[zippers]

well anyway................ lesbians who initially thought we were asexual are not natural enemies with people who are legitimately asexual… we have common experiences that lead to a conflation of labels and using that as an excuse to dislike asexuals or to delegitimize asexuality is self-centered at the very least... my way or the highway? nobody is going to experience life the same way, but their experiences are still happening, and for every lesbian who credits asexuality for encouraging their internalized homophobia, there is an asexual who felt their lived experience be validated for the first time after learning about asexuality. and we can both be telling the truth! there is no actual consequence for being "wrong" about your sexuality. THAT rhetoric is what is causing harm to questioning tweens, not people educating about asexuality.

(As an aside, I think some of this stems from how we've moved from including the Q for questioning to queer -- not that queer isn't also a helpful term, but its a lot more ambiguous compared to questioning, and it's just an upsetting word to a lot of people which makes the word less inclusive for the specific purpose I am discussing. In general, I think it is most inclusive and appropriate to specify that the Q stands for "queer/questioning" but that seems to have fallen out of favor recently.)

(Also in my original essay I made a really good comparison: my autism was misdiagnosed as OCD. I am pretty sure I do not have OCD, and being diagnosed with OCD instead of autism has definitely been a huge setback in my mental health journey. I understand why I received that diagnosis, and I understand why I thought I was asexual (I didn't think Dean Winchester was sexy. LOL. Wish I was joking but that was a major reason why I thought I had to be asexual.) But still, I know there are people with OCD and I know that there are autistic people with OCD. I am just not one of them. The same way as there are asexual people and asexual lesbians. I am just not one of them and their sexuality journey is going to look and end differently than mine.)

We as adults in the greater community have the responsibility to make honest information about sexuality available AND teach that if you do end up experiencing attraction that is contrary to the label you've attached yourself to, you were not "wrong", you were not duped, you just hadn't had the opportunity to collect all the data yet.

Unfortunately, since a lot of these realizations wrt asexuality happen around puberty or during an early relationship, a lot of the people realizing they aren't asexual do not have the emotional maturity to fully consider others' experiences and instead react with anger. Anger at wasted time, whether that is time spent denying yourself a healthy relationship, or time stressing over which MOGAI label correctly describes what symptoms of childhood trauma that is impacting your ability to form relationships (because let me remind everyone that a lack of sexual attraction/libido CAN BE a trauma response and a symptom of depression, and for SOME PEOPLE (me) spending all that time trying to validate something that stemmed from trauma is a form of self-harm. As was reading exlusionist discourse on tumblr, and well, look where that landed me.)

But ultimately, time wasted is time passed. And the 11 year old wearing an ace flag at pride will not be saved by you telling them that asexuality is cringe. (In fact, they've been prepared for that very sentiment by the extremely prevalent but well-meaning messages of "it's not a phase despite what adults in your life will tell you" and it only bolsters their conviction.) Let them make mistakes, or let them be right. Although their body is still changing, they still know it better than you or anybody else. Someone else's sexuality is not something you can live vicariously through.

I have identified both as asexual activist and an ace exclusionist in my life. Do not bother sending me discourse over my lived experience and opinions, as I have heard and said it all. For now, I love all of my asexual friends and trust them to know about their bodies and their feelings. it would be creepy and intrusive if I didn't. To be honest, I'm still working on getting over thinking the asexual flag is cringe but only because I was super embarrassing about it when i was a kid and that's what my flavor of anxiety has always done to me, like, I passionately hated avatar the last airbender for half a decade because I was bullied for liking it in elementary school and started believing the bullies (thank god I got over it, because i started watching korra as a guilty secret and a year later it turned out being what made me finally comfortable to come out as a lesbian!).

LOL this ended up being a good half as long as the original essay that got wiped by Tumblr. not as good or eloquent though. sigh. But i was supposed to work from home today.... oops.... I have spent 4 hours now typing about asexuality like it's 2010 XD

#if we are to start hating people who ''lead lesbians astray'' we are gonna have to start hating men with long hair LOL #rip my huge essay it was so good #this is so disjointed and honestly talks about different things LOL #queer #for bl #asexuality

[doctor-disc0]

I saw a comment on a post that made me a little angry. I decided to just block that person, but I need to vent about how it's transphobic.

For context, this commenter was complaining about the poc, intersex, and trans inclusive lgbtq+ flag used in the post.

[Photo ID: a cropped screenshot of a comment that says "I myself am a happily bisexual ace, but I do feel a little uncomfortable around trans ppl (sorry if it offends U but whatever). And if I voice my concern, suddenly I'm the villain" End ID]

Yeah. You know why you're seen as a villain? Because being uncomfortable around trans people is fucking transphobic. "Trans people make me uncomfortable!" Well, boo fucking hoo. I'm so sorry the evil transgenders existing where you can see them makes you uncomfortable /s

We did not ask to be born the way we are. We are trying to be comfortable in the bodies we were born in. We are trying to live our lives in peace. If you are uncomfortable around an entire minority group, I need you to take a good long look in the mirror and ask yourself why that is. Why does the existence of a minority make you uncomfortable? It sounds to me like you are transphobic, and you need to work on that.

It is racist to say black people make you uncomfortable. It is homophobic to say gay people make you uncomfortable. And it is transphobic to say trans people make you uncomfortable.

"If I voice my concern, suddenly I'm the villain." So you're saying that seeing a trans inclusive lgbtq+ flag makes you uncomfortable, so you say, "Hey, trans people make me uncomfortable. Can we just use the standard rainbow flag?" So, you're trying to persuade people into not using a pride flag, not because of any valid concern, but because you hate the fact that it is explicitly including a part of the community.

My response? Yup, you guessed it! That's transphobia! You are being transphobic. And being a bigot is a surefire way of being seen as a villain, especially in the eyes of those you are bigoted toward.

Address your biases and stop whining about how your transphobia gets you labeled as a villain. You are capable of not being transphobic. Trans people aren't capable of not being trans. We can't change how we are. You can either learn to accept our existence, or you can stay the fuck away. We are an integral part of the lgbtq+ community, whether you like it or not.

#transphobia cw #transphobia #lgbtq #lgbtq+ #lgbt #lgbt+ #queer #trans #transgender #sorry to all my followers for the rant #I'm really angry #and the fact that this person thinks this is okay is just. AAAAGGGGGHHHH #I'm so tired of my existence being seen as threatening #let trans people live in peace #let them exist #our existence is not threatening #our existence should not make you uncomfortable #we exist. deal with it

[wanderingandfound]

You know you don't have to be represented by every stripe on a pride flag right? And the flag can still represent you if you want?

#Like the trans flag has a baby boy color a baby girl color and a neutral color. And sure you can identify with all three but you don't have #too. #This post brought to you by people being worried that the midpink stripe on the sunset lesbian flag representing love and sex means they #aren't included as ace people. It's an inclusive 'and' for an inclusive flag. #gender non-conformity is dark orange and femininity is dark pink and you don't have to identify with both. #Asexual lesbians are lesbians. Aromantic lesbians are lesbians. Lesbians who are somewhere on both the aro and the ace spectrum are lesbians #if they say they are. #Emily Gwen designed the flag to be inclusive and broad. #I mean I'm bi so this isn't my lane but I am right. #personal

[mellometal]

Hey, everyone.

I need to talk about this subject AGAIN because apparently people don't seem to understand where I'm coming from. This is about the flags I use to identify myself with as a lesbian.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of having to talk about this subject over and over again. It's getting to the point where it's starting to become detrimental to my health, physically and mentally.

I understand it's not everyone who's doing this, so please don't think that I'm talking about you! It's nobody here. However, I've had enough people actually coming into my messages to start shit with me for something that doesn't even matter, trying to tell me what to do (like they have any authority over me), and they think it's okay to do this to other people.

I get dragged into flag discourse against my will. It's not like I'm asking to be involved in discourse because I never ask for it. I don't enjoy being in discourse very much at all. It causes distress for me physically, mentally, and emotionally.

To those people who have done this, I have a few questions. What did you think you were going to get out of messaging me with misinformation about the main flag I use to identify myself with? Did you think you'd be successful in having me mold myself to something that's acceptable in your eyes? Did you think I'd be sweet as the fudge I make and magically change the flag I use to identify myself with for you to make YOU comfortable?

First of all, the main flag I use to identify myself with isn't the lipstick lesbian pride flag. The lipstick lesbian pride flag was created by Natalie McCray back in 2010. She stole the design from the Cougar pride flag that was created by Fausto Fernós in 2008. I'll put the two flags side by side below.

The first flag is the Cougar pride flag and the second one is the lipstick lesbian pride flag.

The lipstick lesbian pride flag is a flag I have NEVER used to identify myself with. That flag is VERY problematic and I don't feel comfortable using it myself.

Let me show you the reclaimed flag, the one I use. It was created by someone else back in 2016. It was reclaimed by lesbians as a way to say, "Fuck you!" to Natalie McCray (the creator of the lipstick lesbian pride flag) and it was made to be inclusive to all lesbians.

It has ALWAYS included trans lesbians and butch lesbians, as well as lesbians who aren't completely butch or completely femme (like me), asexual lesbians, aromantic lesbians, and polyamourous lesbians. I'm not completely butch or completely femme. I'm futch, and I swing on both ends of butch and femme, depending on the day. I'm also open to being in a polyamourous relationship with other women...which I've done before. As far as whether I'm an ace lesbian or an aro lesbian goes, I experience both romantic and sexual attraction to other women. So...no, I'm not asexual or aromantic. Ace lesbians and aro lesbians, I love you! 💖

I have been using the reclaimed all-pink lesbian flag for five years. It's shown below.

The all-pink lesbian flag is NOT the lipstick lesbian pride flag. Please stop mixing up the two. The flag I mainly use isn't a bad flag to use at all! It's okay to use!

"What about the sunset lesbian flag, Mello? Can't you use that instead? If not, why?"

Well, sugar plum, I'm glad you asked! The sunset lesbian flag gives me sensory issues. The orange shades in the sunset lesbian flag hurt my eyes due to how saturated they are (most shades of orange look more saturated to me), the color combination of orange, white and pink upsets me, it gives me headaches, and it definitely changes my mood in not so good ways. I also don't feel included or represented in that flag whatsoever due to being futch and being open to polyamory.

If you use the sunset lesbian flag because you like it, you feel included, all that, great! I'm not talking about you. You don't need to change your pride flag to cater to me. I wouldn't ask for that out of you. You don't have to use the all-pink one or anything. I'm talking about people who try forcing me or convincing me to use a flag that genuinely causes me distress.

Trying to force me or convince me to use a flag that genuinely causes me distress isn't going to magically make me start using it. It has the complete opposite effect. Doing that stuff does nothing but upset me and make me never want to use the sunset lesbian flag for myself.

Certain colors have a different affect on me than they might have on you. Most shades of orange, most shades of yellow, and sage green all give me sensory issues. According to studies on color psychology, yellow is supposed to lighten your mood and make you happy; however, with some people, it does the opposite. With me, yellow doesn't make me happy whatsoever. It stresses me out and hurts my eyes. Pastel orange and yellow as well as shades of these colors that occur in nature and/or in food are fine. There are some pride flags with these colors that don't give me sensory issues, and that's because there's either only touches of orange and/or yellow, or the color scheme has shades of these colors that are easy on my eyes. Sage green is a triggering color for me (obviously I'm not triggered by sagebrush and rabbitbrush, since it's literally all over my state and it occurs in nature) because it's the color of my abuser's house and most things in her house. Being autistic doesn't help my case. There are studies shown on how autistic children specifically react to different colors, which I personally think isn't very accurate because autistic teenagers and autistic adults exist. There haven't been any studies I could find on autistic teenagers or autistic adults and how they react to different colors. I've definitely tried looking for them. Maybe they'll do studies like that in the future.

A color that autistic people generally like is pink, according to these studies. Pink is a color that I personally like!

The all-pink lesbian flag is one of the few lesbian flags that doesn't give me sensory issues and I love the color scheme. A lot of the sixty-five lesbian pride flags give me sensory issues or they're simply not appealing to me. I use six lesbian pride flags, including the all-pink one. I'll add the five other flags I use below and tell you about them!

A couple of these flags are kind of a hot-button topic, just for the record, due to people spreading misinformation. Please understand that I don't use them with malicious intent whatsoever. I use them because they don't give me sensory issues, I find them pretty, and I feel included in them. It's not that deep. They're flags I'd like to use in edits in the near future.

I'm NOT debating over pride flags with anyone here, getting into flag discourse, none of that. Take debates and discourse over pride flags elsewhere.

Any attempts made to start debates over flags I use to identify myself with will be automatically blocked and deleted. So don't bother trying. You're wasting your time.

If you have questions about the flags I use and need more information, I will do my best to answer them.

These are some pictures of the lesbian flags I use with some information about them.

I hope that this was easy to understand. I know that I rambled, but I felt the need to explain things clearly.

Last thing I need to say is something that I know some people will take the wrong way. I'm not saying any of this to be mean.

You don't get to dictate what flags I should and shouldn't use. You have NO say in the matter, regardless of whether you're a lesbian yourself or not. The only person who gets to call the shots on the pride flags I use to identify myself with is me. Nobody else. I don't go around bitching at or harassing people for using the sunset lesbian flag. Not once have I ever tried to force or convince ANYONE to use the all-pink lesbian flag instead to make ME comfortable. I wouldn't do anything of the sort, and you KNOW that.

Leave me alone and let me use the lesbian pride flags I want to use in peace. Stop dragging me into discourse. Stop harassing me in my messages. Stop trying to force me or convince me to use a flag that causes distress for me.

Thank you.

#mello speaks #lesbian pride flag talk #the lipstick lesbian flag and the all pink lesbian flag are two different flags with two different creators #i don't use the six lesbian pride flags named in this post with malicious intent #flag discourse is fucking stupid #i'm tired of everything #stop spreading misinformation #sensory issues #this is not at anyone here #lesbian #the all pink lesbian flag = okay to use! #the lipstick lesbian flag = NOT okay to use #the sunset lesbian flag = okay to use (I don't personally use it)

[asexual-means-no-attraction]

Not exactly sure why, but the pan versus bi debate reminds me of the whole 'which lesbian flag is better'. I saw a post on here ages ago that said the lipstick lesbian (pink flag) was created by a transphobic lesbian, so that meant that any lesbian that uses or likes the pink lesbian flag means that she's transphobic. And the newer one (orange flag) was 'more inclusive' because it wasn't created by a transphobe and included cis and trans women. And I'm just sitting here, as a non lesbian, like 'wtf is wrong with people?' When did it become anyone's business what pride flag a lesbian uses? Who's to say someone is transphobic without any evidence? Threats are, preferences aren't. I know that pride isn't about aesthetic but to be honest, the pink lesbian flag is a lot nicer looking and easier on the eyes than the orange flag. What, does a lesbian using the pink one suddenly become a transphobe or not a lesbian because she's using the wrong flag according to some people? That's not how sexuality works! It's a damn flag! Who cares?! It's pretty damn similar to pan versus bi because they want to make lesbians and bisexuals feel bad for using a certain term/flag. Homophobia, but make it woke.

I can understand people wanting to make sure they things they use to represent them aren't historically not in good faith. But people definitely take that too far. They'll use history when it suits them and ignore it when it doesn't.

I've seen articles about the toxic origins of the demisexual and the ace flag. People still use it tho cuz they don't care. It's their flag they've reclaimed it from the shitty origins. But oh no, lesbians can't do that. Cuz there's a really shitty part of the community that likes to hate lesbians. It's very much a if you're [x] you must also be [y] despite the fact that x≠y.

It's a piece of fabric. It's not the end of the world. I understand it's important. But it's not as important as being kind and understanding to others-- especially within the community. And if we approach people with a "let their actions speak for them" approach rather than assuming they must be shitty because of the color of flag they have we'd be a lot better off. Not to mention, with that approach they're also gonna be a lot more receptive to your concerns about the flag cuz you're not attacking them. Obviously it won't work with everyone, but it's better to be kind than be a dick if you can afford it.

You're right and you should say it.

#ask #answered #lgbt discourse

[clippy]

So you're excluding Nonbinary people from your Pride pin set but include Ace people, who aren't inherently LGBT+? The Transphobia jumped the fuck out! Huh! 😜😜😜

based on how this is worded you seem more interested in just calling me transphobic rather than having a constructive convo but i just want to say a few things here:

1) im LITERALLY trans. obv im not saying trans people cant have internalized transphobia or contribute to NB erasure but. yeah.

2) i am making all this merch by hand and producing it does take time and money, of which i dont have a lot of. i initially started out with the 6 most popular pride flags i’ve been seeing people use on their merch as well, because i dont want to pour money into something that wont sell at all

3) the white stripe in the trans flag is for NB and GNC people -- and i do know and understand that the NB flag being its own thing is an important thing to a lot of people -- but again, for time and money reasons, i wanted to do the trans flag in my initial run

4) i literally said in my etsy listing that i intend on adding the NB flag (along with the aro flag) later on. i haven’t had time since i started making them to do so, though. i’ve even asked on my blog for other flag ideas -- i want to make these as inclusive as possible by the end of it

5) you could bring up the point of leaving out one flag without throwing a whole other group under the bus

i do apologize for leaving out the NB flag. it was never my intention to seem like i was looking over them, and i have full plans to add the NB flag to my merchandise as soon as i am able. but again keep, in mind i am an independent creator, and as such, i do have tight budgets to work with when creating merchandise and i wanted to get something out on etsy & tumblr for pride month that was more all-encompassing before making more specific flags if there was interest in the broader ones

anyway i’ll update my merch post once i have more flags added to it -- i am still open for more flag ideas for them. if anyone has any other questions abt this feel free to ask me off-anon or via DM because i currently do not have the fucking energy to get into discourse right now.

#Anonymous

[tenitchyfingers]

The asexual suicide rate is definitely higher than people say it is, and I feel very alone because I don't have other asexual friends online and those I knew IRL suffered to the point that they said they "stopped being ace" or just disappeared, to which I fear the worst. Probably a lot of them aren't actually equipped to live without romance or sex. It's not a good life with the other marginalizations that we often face.

God, you’re slamming the door open on me. I have so much to rant about in response to this, but it’s pretty late and I should go to bed but I know if I don’t answer it now I’ll probably forget tomorrow because I’m a dumbass. 

But first off: you’re right - it’s not an ideal life. Second, you’re also right: a lot of aces (aroaces in this case, I’m guessing) are not equipped to live without romance/sex, mostly because this world is not made for people like us. It’s made for two, not for one, down to the most practical things. Couples get discounts in so many occasions, single people will actually be economically punished for being single, for example in the fact that single rooms in hotels cost more than doubles, or the fact that places of entertainment often offer discounts for couples (like at the disco or at the movies or whatever) but don’t do the same for singles, ever. It sucks, it legitimately does, that’s why I think aro/ace people could be crucial for the discussion of a new system, because even allo people could benefit from getting rid of allonormativity and the expectations of having sex at a certain time in your life a certain number of times. We could bring a hammer to smash oppressive structures down, but the same people who claim to want to get rid of every oppressive structures are still more than happy to enforce some. 

One thing you said is wrong though, I think: you’re definitely not alone. Even if we were the 1%, that would still translate to millions of people all over the world. And if you got this impression from being on tumblr: don’t look at tumblr for a loyal representation of what the world’s actually like. If the world was like tumblr, I’d have to actually worry about anti-shippers running literal witch-hunts and burnings. No, there’s plenty of places where you could find other aces, and yeah it’s sad that a lot of us were ran out of tumblr by right wing people who desired to reinforce cisheteronormativity and pretended to be overwhelmingly feminists and/or gay in order to appear legit (and that’s not true), but that’s not every place where aces are. There are closed ace groups of facebook you can enter, there are apps for ace people specifically to meet, there is pillowfort and discord servers... you name it, there is most likely an ace community on it. 

And if what you want is to meet ace people in person, then try going at pride this year. Don’t be afraid of being rejected or pushed away, just wear your colors and see if another ace comes to meet you. There’s a reason why we have a flag and symbols, it’s to recognize each other. And don’t let the hate force you to hide yourself. Block them. If you meet them in real life, dismiss them and distance yourself. Because here’s the thing: according to every serious survey on the topic of ace exclusion, exclusionists are the overwhelming MINORITY. Don’t let the ace discourse give you the impression that the LGBTQ+ community hates us, because they don’t. Look at every major LGBTQ+ organization - they’re including us. Look at every reputable LGBTQ+ spokesperson too - they most likely already spoke out for ace inclusion. Ace exclusionism was nothing but a fad and they didn’t win because they never had the chance to, and many times they were shut down (it didn’t happen on tumblr because tumblr has literally no moderation, but their discourse is hate speech on pretty much every other platform and it’s not tolerated, so if you find it on other website report as much of it as you can, and then block them because you don’t need that kind of negativity and paranoia in your life). The world isn’t as dark and hopeless as they want you to think it is. 

#Anonymous #replied