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#as evidenced by her treatment of him in tdw
nikkoliferous · 3 years
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Just a quick reminder that Odin never says Frigga begged for Loki's life. That is simply how the fandom has chosen to interpret his words. What he said is:
"Frigga is the only reason you are still alive."
That she advocated for him not to be executed is one possible interpretation of that statement. I'm not saying she didn't do so. I'm just saying that's not what he said and I wish people would quit claiming otherwise. Another, equally logical interpretation of his phrasing is, "I know that Frigga is your weakness and that being forced to go on living without her will hurt you more than execution would."
Alternatively, both could be true. Frigga could have asked for Loki's life to be spared, and Odin could have acquiesced not out of any loyalty to her but because he realised it would be even more cruel than simply killing Loki.
Any of the above interpretations are valid. I just tire of seeing people reference her advocating for Loki as proof positive of her love for him when we don't even know that she ever did so. Especially when it is so often used to brush aside or minimize all the ways in which she gaslit and emotionally manipulated him. Even if she had begged for his life, that doesn't nullify the harm she did to him otherwise by her actions both in his cell in TDW and at Odin's bedside in Thor (2011).
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valiha · 5 years
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helshades
reblogged your post and added:
“helshades: valiha: helshades: valiha: helshades: @valiha, it...”
Groupie! Sycophant! Fan!
OK, so it took me the better part of the night, after being constantly interrupted by people coming and going (it’s Laylat al-Qadr and it is tradition for families to gather for iftar and afterwards). I had to just add my replies and the numbers they refer to, because it turned out long and rambling and probably rubbish, but whatever. Now, how do I add a read more?
1. Re: ‘Earth-616 versus Earth-19999′ - got it!
2. OK, then it's simply that I'm not getting the explanation. It's not getting through. Or it's honestly that I don't like the idea of creating a divergent timeline when time-travelers go back to the past - that's again creating an entire universe that has to suffer these consequences?? (you'll probably say, they're fictional! but what if this were real? aren't you at least a little uncomfortable about that??)
3. Yes I do, if I want to enjoy the movie. I have trouble staying immersed in a movie if I can't at least be somewhat ok with the choices on the screen. Am I not allowed to express my dissatisfction with a plot point of a movie/show I'm watching? Even if my view might not be correct by someone else's opinion? (Also, I didn't like that the conflict between Steve and Tony. They were always in conflict; always yammer yammer fight fight; why?? That's boring to me. I'm finding I don't really like interpersonal conflict I guess? Not even in movies.)
4. But aren't your at least a little uncomfortable with that exodus at this moment in time, where there is a real live exodus of refugees, people fleeing their homes and countries, which have been utterly destroyed and they left desolate, forever scarred and at the mercy of others?? That is like a knife in my chest. Even in Avatar, which everybody is derisive about, when that scene of the Na'vi's home being destroyed came up and the were wailing on the screen you could have heard a pin drop at the theater. It was deathly silent, people were sitting in their seats holding each other, some were rying. The war had been over for nearly 15 years, yet this light-fare scifi flick had enough power to make grown people cry by showing alien people's home destroyed, inhabitants dead, wounded or fleeing. How do I explain how powerful that feeling was then, and is now, watching similar scenes, in the kind of  world we live?
Re: Hela... I'd like to think everyone's redeemable. The kind of fics I like to read the most are often redemption stories. And I'm thinking, Odin lead those conquering wars, He had Hela as his right hand, pointed her towards his goals and had her "execute his vision", let's say. We can imagine their conquests were bloody: his father exterminated (to his knowledge) an entire race of people (I refuse to believe each and every member of a species is evil). He nearly did the same with the Jotnar. Something finally made him stop and look, and ask himself if he truly whated that to be his legacy. The movie says there's no hope for Hela, she's too far gone and perhaps she is - sometimes people truly are eveil; but what if? What if she decided to put down her sword when Odin asked, and Thor and Loki grew up beside her? If Odin gets his chance, can't she? These are the kinds of stories I am interested in.
This is something I've been thinking of often these past few days, with the anniversaries of some heinous acts of war committed in my country. I found myself thinking, would I try to rehabilitate and redeem the war criminals, the gun wielders, and the order givers? Would I forgive, or tolerate their presence, see them on the streets of my every day, see them working as police officers, businessmen, mayors the way some of them do on the streets of the cities they operated in years ago? Would I, provided they paid their dues, and retired to live out their lives far from the eyes of the public?
I struggle with this. Thing is, I don't owe anybody forgiveness for wronging me, and nobody owes me the same if I was the guilty party. But I'd like to think I would give a second chance, if it were earned. If we all keep enacting vengeance, eventually we'll exterminate each other.
(ugh I've again written a wall of text, and don't know if I managed to get across what I was trying to...)
5. No attacks, and I do know; and again I have to shake my head at that disgusting anon message. Nothing, in fandom or in brickspace, no kind of disagreement on what are maginary wrlds and people (even if the feelings are real) justifies that kind of behavior.
6. Re: your own sacrifie - have I missed a sentence somewhere in the MCU that said you could sacrifice yourself? And how would you get the Soul stone then - or were you always supposed to bring another person with you?? Have I missed something?
7. Back up - what Sif show? I thought Jamie Alexander was still filming her own series?
If you remember, I wasn't all that keen on the new look of Asgard they were leaking while the Dark World was filming - I already liked the, er, gilded design of the first movie, and its Shakespearean background. :) I guess the kind of audience that movie found wasn't the audience the TPTB were looking for... TDW did grow on me, eventually. What I dislike thmost abot Ragnarok is exactly that irreverent treatment of previous movies - it might be the thing in Maori culture, but it didn't at all feel respectfully disrespectful, dammit, but plain malicious. They just plain didn't care about what came before. It felt insulting. :( It may not have been meant that way, but that's how a lot of people viewed it.
Foster’s Fellows Forever! And no, unfortunatelly, from what I see except the peope on my dash and people whose fics I read at AO3, most of the wider audience really didn't like Dr. Foster. I'm not sure about the comics - I'm not a regular reader, and I spend even less time in comic spaces, but based on fandom osmosis, I thought her Thor run was popular?
(Lets make yet another Disney+ series - after all, aparently we've got the multiverse now - let's make it the kind of universe where everything ends well and the good doctor gets te recognition she deserves.)
I may have misread the comment on the issue between Marvel and Portman - would you agree that they had a problem with her (or her character) and not the other way around??
(Hel, I must admit a guilty pleasure: I too sometimes like watching cool fights against colourful aliens, as evidenced by a certain movie with a gaseous giant as the name of the main character. :D )
8. I'm not sure that Loki did fake his death either time. The scene on the bridge certainly felt like watching someone decide that's it, it's finally over. I think he knew of the passageways between Yggdrasil's branches, but didn't care if he happened upon one or not. He was lucky (or not so lucky I guess). Same with TDW - there's resignation on his face, plus apparently TPTB decree was that he would die and it was filmed as a genuine death, but the audience wanted him back. In-story explanation might then be his magic healed him, or his Jotun healing, or the Norns had other plans for him or whatever. I don't have any proof really, but I prefer this explanation.
(I should probably heed spoilers which say my facorite characters will die; I do the same for fic so why don't I learn the same for movies?!)
Re: Gamora, I'm sad about the loss of development she went through, all the small moments with Groot, the time she spent with the others on Milano. That hurts. This Gamora hasn't had that, and who's to say she will gravitate towards them again? If she doesn't, I at least hope the new companions she finds will be good for her.
Thanos, get your grubby hands off my Earth, thank you very much. Let's have that battle out in space, away from any populated planets, shall we?
9. Attack: criticize or oppose fiercely and publicly. No attacks whatsoever, not for opposing views in fandom, not for liking/disliking characters, not for anything. Thankfully there's a blacklist (even a native one for the Tumblr app), so I can hide whatever I don't want to see. But even if I do see and read it with my own eyes, if I interact with the post I will not do it maliciously. If we can't agree, we don't agree, and we change the topic. How's that?
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