#atla fandom critical

[theotterpenguin]

I really like the nuanced take about Zutara and why it makes some people uncomfortable and I can see both sides of it. I ship Zutara now but at first I didn’t and it made me really uncomfortable but I think it was just because of certain fan content I was coming across. Some people do portray Zutara in an extremely fetishized & creepy Stockholm syndrome way that makes Katara come off like some helpless damsel stereotype. It made me feel really gross thinking about as a young WOC but rewatching the show and seeing the true dynamic of these characters made me fall in love with them again. So I guess my feeling is that in canon i really love the dynamic but I hate the way *certain fans* twist it and refuse to acknowledge the racism & misogyny in what they’re doing

this is a complicated topic with many layers to it but first - i am sorry if you have ever felt unwelcome in the zutara fandom due to experiences with racism/misogyny.

it would be ignorant to claim that the zutara fandom is somehow uniquely unaffected by systemic racism or sexism, but it would also be disingenuous to claim that these issues only exist in certain parts of the atla fandom. racism, sexism, and general bigotry exist in every fandom due to institutionalized inequality in social structures. and to make it clear, i'm not directing this criticism towards you, anon, you are entitled to your own personal experiences, but i have seen a broader trend of people attempting to use fandom racism to moralize their position in ship wars, which is diminishing from the actual problem - the focus should be on acknowledging the existence of fandom racism/sexism, combatting implicit biases, and creating spaces that can uplift marginalized voices, rather than focusing only on optics in an attempt to gain moral high ground in a silly *fictional* ship war.

however, given all this, the reason that i am still in the zutara fandom is because i appreciate how many people in the fandom are dedicated to unpacking issues of racism and sexism and cultural insensitivity in atla's source material, which i personally haven't seen in many other sides of the fandom (that often sanitize what actually happened in the text to avoid acknowledging these issues in their favorite show). of course this is a broad generalization, but that's generally why i stick with the non-canon shipping side of the fandom because fans that are willing to stray away from canon are often less afraid to engage in critical analysis.

i also do think the zutara fandom has come a long way from the early 2000s when the show first aired. for example, when i first joined the fandom i had mixed feelings on fire lady katara, but i have since read some fanfics that have done an excellent job deconstructing some of the problematic ways that this trope could be interpreted and balancing respect for katara's cultural heritage and autonomy with the political and personal difficulties of being involved with an imperialist/colonialist nation. the fire lady katara trope, capture!fic, and other complicated topics/tropes are almost never inherently racist/sexist, but rather, their execution is what matters. and all this is not to say that issues of systemic racism/sexism do not still exist in this fandom, but it personally has not significantly negatively impacted my experience in the zutara fandom due to the wonderful content that so many other fantastic people produce, though everyone's mileage may differ with what they are comfortable with. anon, i hope that you are able to find a place in the zutara fandom for you! but i also know many people that have stepped back from other fandoms due to experiences with racism/misogyny, so i understand that decision as well.

on a final note, i think it's important to acknowledge that fandom doesn't exist in a vacuum and broader issues of racism and sexism are rooted in the media, the entertainment industry, and mainstream societal norms. while i do sometimes focus on fandom dynamics/discourse in my criticisms, i think it is equally as important to acknowledge how issues of prejudice and inequality are perpetuated through larger social structures, which is why it frustrates me when the atla fandom refuses to acknowledge the flaws of the original show, which has far more influence and social power over the general public than discourse over fandom tropes ever will. personally, i don't understand the phenomenon of holding fan-made material to a higher standard than mainstream media.

#zutara #atla #atla fandom critical #atla critical #zuko #katara #racism #sexism #and i hope it's clear that i am not condoning racism/sexism in fan material - but i do think it's hypocritical to ignore the foundations #of this that is built into the source material #anon ask #my asks #my post

[broadwaybalogna]

All this discourse over Kataang and Zutara is so fucking exhausting. Like, I’ll be looking through the Zutara tag tryna find a cute lil thing to read and all of a sudden 50 people are bashing and hating on the ship. Now, I can’t speak for kataangers and whether they see the same shit on their tag but I’m sure it’s true. Y’all, literaly just stick to your ship and… Enjoy it??? Is it really that hard to watch other people enjoy a ship??

Now for a personal message:

Kataangers- YOUR SHIP IS CANNON!!! You have nothing to prove! It’s cannon!

Zutarians- I respect the dedication to the ship. But you have GOT to stop provoking Kataangers😭 (Kataangers also need to stop provoking)

How long has this been going on for??? How many circles have y’all gone through??? Is this not FUCKING EXHAUSTING!?

(I’m going to tag both Kataang and Zutara so just so y’all know: I ship Zutara. If you come onto my blog looking for Kataang content, you won’t get it, but that doesn’t mean I won’t welcome you!)

#kataang #zutara #shipping #wtf #why are you guys doing this to yourselves #just reading all this exhausts me #friendship is magic #atla katara #atla zuko #atla aang #atla #avatar the last airbender #netflix avatar #atla fandom salt #atla fandom critical #atla fandom problems

[ecoterrorist-katara]

Zutara, romance novels, and the female gaze

Okay so I’ve been thinking about the female gaze a LOT so I checked out a subreddit about romance novels, despite never having read one. I came across this meme (which was initially a Tumblr post and then got posted to Instagram and then to Reddit and I’m now bringing back to Tumblr — Internet telephone, pls never change):

And…what is The Southern Raiders, if not a platonic grovel? Katara’s pain is central to the episode. It’s central to Zuko. Zuko asks Katara what he can do to make up for his betrayal; she demands the impossible. He reads between the lines, cockblocks her brother to get the necessary information, and then waits outside her door overnight (which he also did for Iroh, the one person we know for sure he loves). He basically makes himself a receptacle for her rage, and he holds space for her by coming with her on her revenge quest and carrying their bags and not saying a damn thing about what she should and should not do beyond like…asking her to rest. And obviously the grovel works! She forgives him and then they’re thick as thieves, bantering and fighting and saving each other’s lives, etc.

On a different note, I’ve been told that enemies to lovers is one of the biggest tropes in romance novels, similar to YA lit and fanfic. Here’s something else I found in the romance novel discourse:

And…yeah. In TSR, Katara really does show Zuko her worst self, because she doesn’t feel the need to perform for him. She doesn’t feel the need to perform moral perfection OR cold blooded vengeance. She bloodbends in front of him and he just goes with it. She doesn’t kill Yon Rha and he just goes with it. He doesn’t treat her any differently afterwards. Maybe they talk about it off screen, but I kind of like the idea that they don’t, because Katara doesn’t need to explain anything. And it’s so interesting, because some people in the ATLA fandom have a totally different read on TSR. They think Zuko was encouraging Katara to get revenge (by what, keeping his mouth shut?), and that Aang is the one who acts as her moral compass. I believe that either Bryan or Mike said in the DVD commentary that Aang is the angel on her shoulder the entire time. And this interpretation does make sense if you see it from the male gaze, where Katara as an object of affection is acting in an angry, irrational, threatening way. But if you see it from the female gaze, you recognize that actually it’s probably the most emotionally taxing experience Katara has to go through, and she doesn’t owe it to be nice or perfect to anybody. Katara’s formative trauma literally comes to a head, and she has to make a decision — no, a discovery — about who she is in relation to the tragedy that defines her life and even her identity (as a waterbender, as a parentified child who becomes the mom friend, as a genocide victim), and she’s accompanied by someone who trusts her judgement and validates her feelings.

I’m not saying TSR is explicitly romantically coded, but when it conforms so well to romance novel tropes…is it any wonder that so many people thought “yes this is her man?” And then he takes lightning in the heart for her and reaches for her when he’s literally dying, I will never be normal about that either

#Zutara #Katara #Zuko #the southern raiders #Pro zutara #anti Bryke #I guess #I swear I’m not a Bryke anti but I feel like they just don’t get #The female gaze #and the fact that Zutara is so female gaze is kind of an accident and I find that fascinating #atla fandom critical #The southern raiders turned me into a Zutara shipper #one ep away from the finale #Zutara meta #My meta

[sad-endings-suck]

some of you are too angry at fictional children

#and it shows #like bffr #go touch grass #atla fandom critical #avatar: the last airbender #atla #atla meta #aang #katara #zuko #avatar the last airbender #zutara #avatar aang #atla aang #atla katara #atla zuko #prince zuko #fire lord zuko #master katara #atla meme #atla fandom problems #atla fandom salt #kataang critical #zutarian critical

[theweeklydiscourse]

It’s really funny how much people misremember certain aspects of ATLA and then proclaim to the internet stuff that either never happened or is extremely distorted with absolute certainty. For example, today I saw a person claiming that whole point of Katara’s character arc was unlearning the parentified behaviours she developed in wake of her mother’s death. That a huge part of Katara’s arc was a confrontation of how that trauma fundamentally shaped her maternal tendencies.

The thing is though…WE the audience, can recognize that the parentification Katara experienced was something that was really straining for her, but the TEXT doesn’t. The audience (or at least certain parts of the audience) can identify that her maternal tendencies were indicative of a responsibility that she took on far too young and subjected her to unnecessary pressure and stress. There are flashes of recognition maybe, but for the most part, the show doesn’t actually confront the negative impact that Katara’s maternal role had on her.

Katara never truly unlearns the maternal behaviours that put so much pressure on her because the text doesn’t see it as a bad thing. Arguably, the text doesn’t see much of a problem with the emotional labour Katara takes on and how that labour goes unreciprocated for the most part (particularly from her canon love interest). We see some reflections, but it’s not enough to support a reading of the text where that element is actually extremely obvious and a prominent point in her character arc.

We’re not the ones “watching the show with our eyes closed”, I think you’re just misremembering the canon progression of Katara’s arc to avoid confronting a real issue in the text.

#Katara #pro katara #avatar the last airbender #atla fandom critical #atla discourse #the gaang #character analysis #atla fandom discourse #zutara #atla critical #anti bryke

[starlight-bread-blog]

It's always "No I don't hate A@ng or Ma! I just want to criticize how their characters were handled", and never "They're fictional and you're offended on the behalf of literal nothing".

Ps: Zks say what you gotta say to avoid harassment. I don't hate them either. It's just absurd that hating a fictional character that doesn't exist is something to be denounced in order to be taken seriously.

#zutara #anti anti zutara #anti kataang #anti maiko #pro zutara #atla fandom problems #atla fandom critical #atla fandom salt #anti atla fandom #zuko #katara #zuko x katara #katara x zuko

[redwiccanrobin]

Okay, someone on TikTok said that the only reason that Zutara shippers get shit is because we won’t shut up about it. And, no, I’m gonna rebuttal that.

You want to know why the bullying and harassment of Zutara shippers came to be? Bryke. Bryke made a petty little video back in 2008/2009 in which they used (uncredited) fanart. Most of which were Zutara fanart. In that video, they claimed that girls (made no mention of the boys who liked Zutara) who shipped it would be doomed to end up in a toxic relationship for liking Zutara. And, since then, they have always been condescending and rude to anyone who interrupts their art differently from how they intended. People who hated Zutara then lapped that shit up and followed suit. That’s why Zutara shippers get harassed on the daily.

#avatar the last airbender #Zutara #anti bryke #atla fandom critical #Tik Tok is hell

[azulas-daddy-kink]

Mai: throws a scroll at Zuko

Fandom: Abuse!

Azula: pranks Zuko as a kid

Fandom: Abuse!

Toph: punches Zuko playfully

Fandom: Abuse!

Zuko: holds Katara captive and threatens to burn her mother’s necklace, while implying he will give her up to pirates who are known for how they hurt women

Fandom: Soul mates! 😍

#atla #discourse #atla fandom critical #anti zutara

[stardust948]

If Hakoda was the one to sacrifice himself to protect Sokka and Sokka talked about him often, most of the fandom wouldn't bat an eye at it.

But when Katara talks about her mother’s sacrifice it's suddenly annoying.

#the double standards #atla #atla fandom critical #katara #katara deserved better #let the girl grieve #sokka #hakoda

[hojichasunrise]

"You only like Zutara because you like bad boys--"

It's because of these two, actually.

#zutara #atla fandom critical #funposting #i almost died of dehydration today and my brain is glitching

[kideaternomnom]

It’s so tiring atp when I constantly see people compare Zuko or Azula’s truama. I’m re watching ATLA and both are so tragic and went through horrible stuff just in different ways. They both deserved better and they’re honestly two of some of the best ATLA characters for me. 😭

“Zuko had it harder” “Azula had it harder” stfu. Both had equal amounts of problems and hardships by their god awful father that’s that. 🙌🏻

Anyways fire sibling GIF of them being adorable asf

#avatar #avatar the last airbender #atla #the last airbender #zuko #prince zuko #firelord zuko #azula #princess azula #atla azula #fire siblings #tragedy #analysis #character analysis #media literacy #atla fandom critical #atla fandom problems #fandom problems #opinion

[rennelelorren]

Why do people hating on zutara that much even after all this years I'll never understand.

Also I'll never understand how people act as if zutara is the worst ship in this fandom. And the most problematic (tho no-one bat an eye when it's zukka) by the way how people literally despise it and throwing all those little tantrums.

And to me it seems like people know nothing about all the ugly, dirty and horrible ships that exist in this saint (at first glance) fandom.

How about Ozai/Zuko, Ozai/Azula, Azula/Zuko, Ozai/Hakoda, Ozai/Kya, Ozai/Hakoda/Kya, Jee/Zuko, Zhao/Zuko, Zhao/Azula?

So, is zutara still the worst ship?

Like REALLY

#atla #avatar the last airbender #atla fandom problems #atla fandom critical #zutara #I'm tired of the hate to this silly little ship #just fuck off already #and to clarify I don't ship any of the examples listed here #I saw some art for these here as well as ff in ao3

[im-a-hoping-beetch]

Many people genuinely get confused when we, native people, get uncomfortable when Katara, a native character, is reduced to a mom and her canon relationships with characters are put down in favour for a boy who lived in a society that benefitted from her oppression, antagonised her and her friends for most of the series and was even racist at times. But because he's hot and had an episode with katara, everything should be forgiven, because god forbid a native girl gets with anyone who isn't from a group of people who aided the genocide of her people. God forbid two characters who experienced genocide have a relationship and connect over this shared trauma, in favour for boy who also has mom trauma

Look, while I can understand your feelings of discomfort towards the ship, I’d still like to put certain things into perspective.

Now, I don’t really know what you meant by her being “reduced” to a mom. Do you mean that her relationship with Zuko would confine her to such a role? Which, by the way, is absolutely laughable, since one of the main reasons why so many ppl ship these two is bcz unlike every member of the gaang (aside from Suki), Zuko is the only one with who she doesn’t have to act like a surrogate mother. Katara is allowed to be angry and be vulnerable with him. All things that we rarely see her be able to do with the rest of the bunch, let alone her own brother.

Actually, one of the main appeal of the two is bcz, both have the same level of of maturity and similar way of interacting with the members of the gaang. Which is why so many ppl label the two as “parents of the group”.

But, if you’re talking about how, we zutarians usually talk abt the intricacies that come with her being a motherly person, I’ve got some news for ya. Most of us, usually, never fail to highlight how much of a tragedy, her being pushed into a role of adulthood at such a young age is. Also, on how, ironically, her canonical partner (Aang) has never really helped with that phenomenon, actually he perpetuated it even further.

Besides, wanna talk abt canon relationships being put down for a boy, well, look no further than canon itself, anon. I’m guessing that you’ve probably read this post, due to the phrasing at the beginning of your ask. One thing I specifically touched on, was how much of Katara’s existence seems to revolve around Aang, the biggest example being, the comics. In them, we do see the creators ready to strain Katara’s established relationships with the gaang (aside from her brother) in order to shove kataang down our throats. Cuz if you think abt it, Toph and Katara’s interactions are heavily reduced, let alone meaningful ones and do not even get me started on Zuko or Suki.

Yes, Zuko lived in a society that benefited from her oppression. He has antagonized her and her friends. But Zuko is also made to recognize the harm his actions have caused. Additionally, at no point is he not faced with the consequences of what he has done towards the gaang. Every single member gets to express anger or/and resentment over what he’s done in the past, Katara is no exception. Actually, she’s the one who’s given the most leeway in terms of doing so. Even for things he had no control over such as her mother’s death and the fire nation raids. However, instead of whining about how he’s not responsible for all of this taking place, something he could’ve easily done, he makes it up to her. He helps her seek justice for her mother while her canonical future boyfriend is out here reducing her righteous anger to blindsided revenge.

I don’t know what you mean by “Because He’s hot and had an episode with her, everything should be forgiven.” To me, that last part owed to make me scratch all the dandruff off my braids. Language is a powerful tool, but often than not, people don’t really know how to use it nor seem to understand the ramifications of their use. When you say “everything should be forgiven”, you are framing forgiveness as something passive, when, here, it is active. Someone does the action of forgiving Zuko, Katara does. Katara forgives him, because he earned it.

Right now, I’m assuming that you thought you were in defence of Katara, but the truth is that you are actually perpetuating an habit that many have had when it comes to the Southern Raiders. Which is to perpetually strip any agency Katara has in an episode literally centered around her character!?!

Nobody forbid anyone from anything. If people don’t feel comfortable shipping these two, so be it. However, to act as if Zuko hasn’t actively fought against the system that has led to those atrocities being done or like he hasn’t used his position of power in order to make actual change or/and retributions, is simply disingenuous.

Aang and Katara did have a relationship, but have never connected over their shared trauma. More specifically, Aang failed to connect over their shared trauma, when he should have and instead used as a way to silence hers. @sokkastyles makes a very good point about it in this post.

#atla #avatar the last airbender #zutara #anti kataang #anti bryke #anti aang #atla fandom critical #zuko #katara #pro katara #the southern raiders #anti atla comics

[ecoterrorist-katara]

“I think Zuko and Katara would’ve made a cute couple”

normal person irl: oh yeah, now that you mention it I can see it

ATLA fan online: Zutara fans are DELUSIONAL and so ANNOYING. There is NOTHING in the entire show that indicates anything romantic whatsoever. EVERYONE hates Zutara. Katara would never get with her colonizer and Zuko loves MAI. Katara and Aang are SOULMATES. You just like Zutara because they look good together. Well joke’s on you because Aang got Katara pregnant THREE TIMES —

#atla fandom critical #me talking to my friends irl vs me going into the ATLA tag / the ATLA subreddit #Zutara #The discourse is so unhinged

[theotterpenguin]

there’s a post floating around here claiming that sokka is the only person keeping the atla kids alive and it very much reminded me of how the labor that women perform is often undervalued and overlooked. (and this post is not meant to be targeted towards op at all, but rather is speaking towards a general trend that i’ve noticed in the atla fandom)

i recently rewatched atla and it’s surprised me that the fandom interpretation is that only sokka is worried about the group’s lack of food/money, particularly in book 1, because katara worries over the exact same things and is usually the one backing up sokka. in “the warriors of kyoshi,” sokka reminds aang that they need to make it to the northern water tribe soon and stop making pitstops, and katara agrees with him. when they stop at kyoshi island, katara reminds aang multiple times that it’s risky to stay in one place for too long. in “the waterbending scroll,” sokka worries over how little money they have left after aang wastes money on a bison whistle, so katara takes charge of keeping track of the money instead, and she also reminds aang that they need to practice waterbending, not focus on having fun. in “the storm,” katara realizes they’re out of food and says they need to go to the market, then sokka gets a job so they’ll have more money for food. in “the king of omashu” and “the deserter,” sokka worries that aang will be discovered, and katara agrees so she suggests that they wear disguises. in “the cave of two lovers,” sokka says they need to focus on getting to omashu without getting sidetracked, and katara agrees. in “avatar day,” sokka and katara buy food/supplies together while aang waits for them. 

despite sokka being seen as the pragmatic sibling, both katara and sokka are pretty united in their practicality and trying to keep their mission on track. katara only makes exceptions on a couple occasions when she values standing up against injustice even more than sticking to the plan, such as freeing the imprisoned earthbenders or helping the fire nation village as the painted lady. and the way that i've seen people use katara’s passion for social justice as a way to argue that she’s “irresponsible” seems a bit disingenuous considering that she sees it as a moral duty to help people in need (and let alone everything else she does on the day-to-day to help the group).

(“the library” is in fact the only episode in the entire show that i can remember where katara disagrees with sokka and says there’s no harm in having some fun in their downtime. and as soon as sokka finds out about the existence of the library he’s also fine with taking a break from their mission lol. despite what the fandom thinks, it’s not the norm).

and while there’s a lot of focus on sokka’s mapping/planning skills, there’s also so much that katara does so much behind the scenes that isn’t as explicitly acknowledged. “the chase” tells us that katara, aang, and sokka all contribute pretty equally to setting up their camp while traveling. in “jet” they all help pack up camp, in “the great divide” sokka sets up their tent, katara collects firewood, and aang gathers food. and yet even though they all seem to contribute pretty equally to setting up camp, we are shown so many scenes of katara doing extra chores while the others are preoccupied with something else. in “the southern air temple,” katara packs up their supplies while sokka is sleeping, then again packs up everything while sokka’s eating the food momo gave him. “the warriors of kyoshi” episode implies katara is the only one mending everyone’s clothes, and while sokka is getting his ass kicked training with the kyoshi warriors and aang is entertaining his fan girls, katara is shopping for food and supplies.

in “the painted lady,” the group all goes shopping for food together, but it’s katara who cooks dinner for everyone (shown twice in this episode). in “the runaway,” katara’s at camp cooking for everyone while they’re off tricking a gambler to make more money. sokka, aang, and toph buy food/supplies, then leave them with katara to sort out while they go have fun in the village (and sokka gets to buy his messenger hawk). and katara’s the one seen as a “buzzkill” for worrying about their safety. this pattern continues in “the western air temple” and “the firebending masters” where we see katara cooking and serving food to the group, but there aren’t scenes of them doing other chores.

and of course, “the desert” is an entire episode dedicated to katara keeping the group alive. and that’s not even to mention the countless amount of emotional support that she gives to her friends, often putting other people’s needs above her own. sure, katara might not be the person with the map or the master plan, but that doesn’t mean her contributions are any less important.

sokka’s character arc involves growing into a strong leader and strategist, so it makes sense that the fandom often likes to focus on the moments that go into building this arc, the moments where he does take the lead and is responsible. but for katara? it’s just something required of her and of most female characters. taking on extra responsibilities is something to be admired in men, but just expected of women. 

and to be clear, i’m not saying that sokka is not responsible, he definitely is. i just find it interesting that some parts of this fandom have a skewed perception of katara’s role in the group, often claiming her to be the “irresponsible” or “immature” sibling while poor, exhausted Dad!Sokka™ is the only one keeping these silly kids alive. sokka and katara both had to grow up too fast, they’re both kids who are very mature for their age and took on adult responsibilities far too young (though in different ways). acknowledging the sacrifices katara made and the labor she took on to take care of others isn’t diminishing sokka’s character arc, it’s something he even admits in the show himself. and i love their relationship because even with such a complicated family dynamic, it’s so clear how much they love and support each other.

#sokka #katara #katara analysis #atla #atla fandom critical #“katara is the silly irrational girl while sokka is the mature dad who stepped up” do y'all even hear yourselves #i have a lot of thoughts about how the way that the fandom misinterprets sokka & katara's relationship #as like a reactionary mechanism against the potentially sexist writing of the source material #but that'll have to wait until another post #my post #my meta

[theweeklydiscourse]

ATLA fans will go on and on about how Zutara is a “colonizer x colonized” shipping dynamic, yet they can’t bear to reckon with the orientalism and anti-resistance propaganda that pervades the actual show. They’ll say nothing about the problematic depictions of characters like Jet and Hama or the way that the show mashes cultures together into one big lump, but they will eagerly accuse Zutara shippers of romanticizing colonialism.

Maybe some people earnestly believe that shipping such a dynamic is problematic, but I don’t really buy it for the majority. They’re inconsistent with their analysis and most of the time, and it’s often shallow or contradictory. Idk…I just think that if they’re going to make that argument, they should be able to follow-through and criticize the actual text instead of non-canon fan content

#pro zutara #pro katara #Katara #atla fandom discourse #atla fandom critical #shipping discourse #Zuko #zutara #anti bryke #atla critical #avatar the last airbender