HELLO hi yes i am here to be c!eret’s lawyer /HALF-JOKE. the main idea of viceduo’s post was that c!wilbur had nothing to apologize to c!eret for, and i politely disagree with not only the idea, but the… well, the formatting of it? okay.
1. at time of FCR and pretty much every c!eret-c!wilbur interaction, canon lives Weren’t Canon Yet. while c!wilbur c!tommy c!tubbo and c!fundy were all played fairly traumatized from the FCR, they only lost their gear, the war, and at the end of it— c!tommy’s discs.
2. c!eret was raked through the MUD for the FCR. including by c!wilbur! i agree that Being The Cause for Four People’s Deaths is not comparable to c!wilbur’s constant reputation-tanking hatred of c!eret, but c!eret thru aug2020-jan2021 Definitely accrued grievance material about their treatment. c!eret was described, by c!wilbur, as being (paraphrased) “a scapegoat for [his] own failings as president”.
3. logically, the FCR is comparatively more horrible to c!wilbur than his reputation tanking to c!eret. apologies do not work logically. people can request/demand apologies for very crazy things! c!eret, however rational or not, felt that she had been abandoned by c!wilbur, and wanted an apology. she’s not wrong for this, she’s a dynamic character. she has all the love in her heart for c!wilbur, sees him as a great inspiration even! apologies are not clear-cut, they’re emotional
sorry if this is a lot, i love debate. all the respect in the world !! :D
I see I see! I get what you’re saying. However...
1. Even if the lives were not “canon” yet, the impact of the FCR was still established in canon the moment it happened and thereafter. They changed the lyrics to the L’manberg anthem because of it, c!Wilbur started his paranoid down spiral mostly because of it, and as we see from this vod at 49:56—where cQuackity is leading cCrime into the casino—c!Wilbur still has a fear of cramped hallways from the FCR: before walking in, Wilbur says, “Stand back, stand back, I don’t- I’m not too comfortable this.”
And, of course, those lives were made canon soon after, and were canon in the My Own Judas stream. So, the fact that they weren’t canon lives doesn’t particularly matter in my opinion, since either way, that fear and the trauma was played seriously from the start. c!Eret’s actions directly impacted all of them, especially c!Wilbur. For c!Wilbur, he lost his trust too. Like I said, the FCR kicked off his paranoid down spiral, leading him to eventually believe no one was truly on his side. Canon lives, while important, were never really the focus, you know?
2. I’m not particularly sure what your point is here, I’ll be honest. c!Eret was the cause of c!Wilbur’s death and the death of the people he called his friends and family—I think that’s a perfectly justifiable reason to not like someone. Plus, c!Wilbur’s hatred of c!Eret isn’t what ruined Eret’s reputation: the fact that Eret betrayed the nation they were fighting for did. Eret established herself as someone to not be trusted, even if her reasons were justified in her head.
As for that quote you gave, I’m not sure where it’s from (I think it’s from My Own Judas?), but regardless, I don’t think you can really use c!Wilbur’s words as concrete evidence. Wilbur is a character that will constantly lie about and downplay his own feelings to avoid being outright truthful and vulnerable. However, even if he did mean what he said, it’s still not as bad as what c!Eret did to him, you know?
3. This is a fair point! I do agree, apologies are not usually meant to be logical, and c!Eret is an emotional character who will act on those emotions at times, and that’s totally fine!
However, my issue is that the narrative treats this like a good thing. This stream was for c!Wilbur’s arc primarily, and having him give an apology in response to c!Eret’s frankly unreasonable demands and having it be treated as a positive thing is...not a great look. Especially considering the fact that, to my knowledge, c!Eret never really gives c!Wilbur a proper apology and an admittance of “I hurt you, I’m sorry, and I’m trying to be better.”
I do believe I understand what you’re trying to say. c!Eret is an interesting character and I thought her redemption arc was good! However, I don’t think these arguments entirely justify c!Wilbur apologizing to her and it being treated as a good thing.
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Harry the Womanizer
This thing started because I find the whole womanizer image of Harry absolutely disgusting and wanted people to see how utterly bad and wrong it was.
Please be aware that the following does not reflect Harry’s personality but it shows us the image their label wanted him to be seen as.
Some disclaimer about where the data comes from
written, digital coverage (no print, 1-2 videos, no radio)
google search “Harry Styles”, I looked through the first 20 hits each month but didn’t read all of them ( headlines usually are a dead giveaway if an article contains a new “conquest”)
I did not list every woman that was mentioned in the same article as Harry. Also not those that showed interest in him. But most of those that were said he showed interest in (I might have skipped a few in the worst years just bc it was so freaking disgusting)
Often articles contained offhand comments about his pulling power or unrelatedly recounting his latest conquests in any given article to enforce the womanizer image. These did not make it into the list.
Deleted articles are of course not included (as of Aug 2020)
Some of the women turn up again for a round 2 (or 3 or 4), I only mention them once a year tho
I put the women into the list on the date the news coverage happened/started because many articles date back things by saying “pics have circulated since…” “They have been reportedly seen together since…” or simply tell a story that supposedly happened a few years prior
Some dates overlap. Thats either bc they pushed several woman at once (very effective to drive the whole womanizer image home) or its bc one woman was seeded in while the other was happening.
Because this is a freaking long post, I’ll put it under the “read more”
About the list
split by years
each year has Harrys age for that given year in brackets
each data set has in brackets the age, occupation and date of news coverage for the woman (if available)
winter gf get their own category as they sometimes overlap with other woman
Some of the woman get brought back up (not just mentioned in passing), those are listed at the end of each year with the dates when they where brought back up
“again” is for those who dated him again
Women linked to Harry
2010 (16)
5(?) girls from bootcamp
Cher Loyd (17, txf fellow contestant, Oct)
unnamed girl fan (13.11.)
2011 (17)
Adele (23, singer, 27.09.)
Sarita Borge (record executive, 29.11.)
2011-2012
Caroline Flack (31, txf, 23.10.-27.01.)
2012 (18)
Pixie Geldoff (21, 09.02.)
Alexa Chung (28, model, 16.02)
Alexandra Burke (23, txf, 20.02.)
Jo Wood (56, ex of Ronny Wood 21.02.)
Denise Welch (54, actress, 21.02.)
Georgia May Jagger (20, Mick Jagger daughter, 21.02.)
Sarah-Louise Colivet (24, photographer, 11.04.)
Lily Halpern (19, singer, 11.04.)
Jillian Harris (32, reality TV star, 13.04.)
Emma Ostilly (18, actor for Gotta be You MV - 22.04.)
Ellis Calcutt (18(?), friend, deniedm, 30.04.)
Emily Atack (22, TV star, 20.05.)
unnamed girl (Article about her one night stand with H, 06.06.)
Lucy Horobin (32, radio presenter, 24.06., dated back to Aug-Oct 2011)
Caggie Dunlop (23, TV star, 12.07.)
Allyssa Reid (19, singer, 23.07.)
Blond girl with pink bag (from a night out, 26.07.)
Cara Delevingne (19, Model, 05.08.)
Natalie Imbruglia (37, singer actress 28.09.)
2012-13
Taylor Swift (22 singer 19.10.-07.01. (fling dated back to April 2012 then getting back together)
2013 (19)
Hermione Way (27, reality star, 08.01.)
Millie Brady (18, actress, 24.02.)
Shaniece Nesbitt (fan, 11.03.)
Yvette Fielding (44, TV presenter, 11.03.)
Fia Litton (niece of Preston Mahon (security), 14.03)
Chelsea Ferguson (25, stripper, 14.04)
Kimberly Stewart (33, confirmed by Rod, 27.04.)
Camilla Foss (18, fan in oslo, 09.05.)
Kara Rose Marshall (22, model, 03.07.)
Alexis Allen (19, fan, 21.07.)
Cara Delevingne (20, model, 11.09.)
Paige Reifler (17, model, 30.09.)
Sjana Earp (18, model, 25.10.)
Samantha Armytage (36, TV presenter, 27.10.)
Daisy Lowe (24, model, 01.12.)
Caroline Flack (brought back up, 01.02./11.09.)
2013-14
Kendall Jenner (17, model, 21.10. - 23.02)
2014 (20)
mystery brunette (20.01.)
Alison Mosshart (35, singer, 07.03.)
Daisy Lowe (25, model, 11.04.)
Larissa de Macedo Machado (21, brazilian popstar, 08.05.)
Lou Teasdale (30, hairdresser, 26.05.)
Sinitta (45, Smons ex, 22.07.)
Paige Reifler (18, again, model, 25.07.)
Meghan Trainor (20, singer, 27.08.)
blond woman (at Coldplay concert, 18.09.)
Katy Perry (29, singer, 01.10.)
Erin Foster (31, 08.10.)
Kate Moss (40, model, 03.11.)
two blond woman (leaving a club in LA with H, 30.11.)
Taylor Swift (brought back up, 12.02./02.03./20.08./14.10./04.12.)
Emily Atack (brought back up, 23.03.)
Caroline Flack (brought back up, 26.03.)
2014-15
Nadine Leopold (20, model, 20.12.- 12.03.)
2015 (21)
Emma Watson (24, actress, 14.01. dated back to 26.12.14)
Suki Waterhouse (23, actress, 05.04.)
Joy Muggli (23, talent agent, 12.05.)
Sara Sampaio (23, model, 15.06.)
Georgia Fowler (22, model, inspiration for Kiwi, 15.10.)
Nicole Scherzinger (34, singer, 17.10., dated back to 2013)
Taylor Swift (brought back up, 15.01./13.02./10.03./08.05./13.10./28.10.)
Caroline Flack (brought back up, 24.05./11.10.)
2015-16
Kendall Jenner (again, 30.12.- 31.01.)
2016 (22)
Pandora Lennard (28, model 31.01.)
Lindsay Lohan (30, actress, 10.03., dated back unspecified)
Kendall Jenner (again, 05.09.)
Kara Rose Marshall (brought back up, 07.10.)
Suki Waterhouse (again + dated back to 2013, 11.11.)
Taylor Swift (brought back up, 01.02.)
2017 (23)
Tess Ward (26, food blogger, 09.05.)
Townes Adair Jones (20s, 17.05., dated back to 2014)
Camille Rowe (31, model, 31.07.)
Sjana Earp (22, again, 05.12.)
Taylor Swift (brought back up, 18.04./12.05./03.09./09.11.)
Kendall Jenner (brought back up, 31.01.)
2018 (24)
Delta Goodrem (33, voice coach, 27.04.)
Camille Rowe (ends 31.07.)
Kendall Jenner (brought back up, 15.07./12.12.)
Taylor Swift (brought back up, 21.03./)
2019 (25)
Kiko Mizuhara (28, denied by K, 12.01.)
Camille Rowe (brought back up, 22.11.)
Kendall Jenner (brought back up, 11.12.)
Taylor Swift (brought back up, 23.08./04.11./13.12.)
2020 (26)
Daisy Lowe (brought back up, 20.06.)
Taylor Swift (brought back up, 02.03./24.07.)
data from here on is not included in the graphs, I will keep adding when things happen
Tracee Ellis Ross (48, actress, 28.10.)
The age differences
The graph shows clearly how
the age gaps are very big in the beginning, likely to attract an older audience in addition to the usual target audience of teenage girls
the amount of woman linked to Harry gets smaller each year because in later years, articles could just reference his history with woman
the amount of woman linked and mentioned in regards to Harry gets significantly lower after hiatus started
A rough timeline of women that where connected to Harry over the years
Why give Harry the womanizer image?
Would the image of a womanizer not damage the image of 1D?
If they’d portrait him as a sleeze it would have surely damaged the overal image of 1D. But Harrys image portrait him as charming, a bit quirky and overall an airhead that likes people and doesn’t want to be tied down. Thus giving the illusion of being potentially available to every woman and showing them a good, no strings attached, time. Which is a massive selling point for boybands to increase the age range of their fans.
In addition, all his conquests would be used to stir up drama or simply generate attention at crucial times to get 1D in the press without mentioning their current promo focus in every headline.
The winter girlfriends had a special role as they were the only ones actively worked as continuous dating. To build some attachment, have a continuous storyline that could be tied to the just released album and bridge the holiday pause, and when the relationship ended generate more drama to be used for promo.
Harry did keep on using his womanizer image to promote both his solo albums but in a very controlled manner. The numbers of new woman linked to him declined to 1 in 2019, for now we are at 0 (1) in 2020
HS promo used 3 woman as inspirations for songs (Towns, Fowler, Swift) and a tour gf (Rowe)
FL promo only uses the previous tour gf as now ex to push the storyline of a breakup album
He is very visibly changing his image while still maintaining a level of connection to his old image. Whether that's due to contractual restrictions or a strategy to not alienate to many fans is unclear
Jeff Azoff
For what I’ve seen Jeff and Harry seem close (the Azoff family having him on family pictures, posted by Jeff’s brother)
Looking at the timeline of Jeff and Harry
2014-03-25 first mention of Harry at Azoff family home in an article about Irvin
2014-04-23 first pics of Harry and Jeff at a sports event (Jeff named as a friend, no name or position yet)
2014-12-22 Jeff not named yet but identified as his agent
2015-01-10 first time Jeff being named and being the link between Harry and a woman
2016-03-07 Jeff leaves CAA as a music agent and launches his own company Full Stop Management
2016-03-11 Harry confirmed to have joined Full Stop Management
Jeff likely took over as Harry’s agent in early 2014. In 2015 Harry’s image change starts to become aparent and changed drastically after hiatus.
Harry choosing Jeffs management firm as soon as he left Modest is a clear indication that he feels Jeff will represent him how he wants
The Timeline - Women connected to Harry and Promo
I started the visual timeline in end 2011 when his womanizer image started to take off
The instances before where likely used as seeding for this image (first instance was a segment in txf where he was linked to 5 of the girl contestants and funny enough one older guy)
purple - women from the entertainment industry
pink - fans/no-names
lilac - winter gf
dark burgundy - thos who date him again
dusky pink - brought back up
light blue - single release
royal blue - album release
mid blue - other releases
dark turquoise - tour legs
Adendum: a few numbers analyzed,
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