While the previous anon went about it the wrong way I do there are some similarities between the hound and Jon:
1. Relatively similar coloring (Jon: brown hair and grey eyes/hound: black hair grey eyes)
2. Association to canines (Dog and Wolf)
3. Burn wounds (Jon on his right arm/Hound on the right side of his face)
4. Batb imagery.
But more than that I think the hound is a foreshadowing for future Jon. The hound is cynical, temperamental, and beast like individual who got ‘tempered’ by Sansa’s singing and gentle touch. Jon will likely be cynical, temperamental, and beast like when he’s resurrected and will need Sansa’s singing and gentle touch to be tempered. The hound is just as much a placeholder for Jon as Ygritte is for Sansa. Granted he has other purposes too, but one of them is to hint at Jon.
As I said in my previous post: "Yes, in general we can say they are both men, with grey eyes and dark hair, they are both member’s of military orders, they both showed romantic/sexual interest in girls with shades of red hair. But this is all very superficial."
So when you say this: "Relatively similar coloring (Jon: brown hair and grey eyes/hound: black hair grey eyes)", I remember the time I listed all the Asoiaf men with that traits combo (all shade of grey eyes and all shades of dark hair), and they are a lot, Littlefinger included, it's pretty common really. So this isn't a strong argument.
I know some hound shippers use "the northern look" in favor of their ship because that one time someone thought the hound was Arya's father (this is connected with Sansa's wish to have a daughter that looks like Arya), but any adult man seen with a child, is assumed to be the child's father, even if they don't look alike, because not all children look like their fathers. Ask Eddard Stark about his Tully look children.
And talking about Eddard Stark, a character that really looks like Arya, let's remember that time Ned referred to Jon as a younger version of himself. So the character that really looks like Arya (long solemn face, grey eyes and brown hair) is Jon Snow.
GRRM is very strict with traits and coloring. For example, there are a lot of blue-eyed characters, but among them the Tully Blue stands out. There are also many famous shades of red hair, among them the famous Tully Auburn and the Dondarrion Red Gold.
That's why I always object the "similar look" argument, because the Stark Look in particular includes not only grey eyes, but also BROWN hair and a long solemn face.
And you know who is very close to the Stark Look? Waymar Royce, a famous Jon Snow lookalike.
Now about this one: "Association to canines (Dog and Wolf)," GRRM has put a lot of effort into differentiating and disassociating common dogs and direwolves.
As I said before: "Direwolves are not dogs. Direwolves are not simple pets. Direwolves are superior in comparison. Also these particular direwolves, the Stark kids’s direwolves, are gifts from the Old Gods and part of their masters’ souls."
And this statement “Direwolves are not dogs” is repeated a lot in the Books, mostly through Lady and Ghost:
Jon had started drinking then, and he had not stopped.
Something rubbed against his leg beneath the table. Jon saw red eyes staring up at him. “Hungry again?” he asked. There was still half a honeyed chicken in the center of the table. Jon reached out to tear off a leg, then had a better idea. He knifed the bird whole and let the carcass slide to the floor between his legs. Ghost ripped into it in savage silence. His brothers and sisters had not been permitted to bring their wolves to the banquet, but there were more curs than Jon could count at this end of the hall, and no one had said a word about his pup. He told himself he was fortunate in that too.
His eyes stung. Jon rubbed at them savagely, cursing the smoke. He swallowed another gulp of wine and watched his direwolf devour the chicken.
Dogs moved between the tables, trailing after the serving girls. One of them, a black mongrel bitch with long yellow eyes, caught a scent of the chicken. She stopped and edged under the bench to get a share. Jon watched the confrontation. The bitch growled low in her throat and moved closer. Ghost looked up, silent, and fixed the dog with those hot red eyes. The bitch snapped an angry challenge. She was three times the size of the direwolf pup. Ghost did not move. He stood over his prize and opened his mouth, baring his fangs. The bitch tensed, barked again, then thought better of this fight. She turned and slunk away, with one last defiant snap to save her pride. Ghost went back to his meal.Jon grinned and reached under the table to ruffle the shaggy white fur. The direwolf looked up at him, nipped gently at his hand, then went back to eating.
—A Game of Thrones - Jon I
Eddard Stark had left before dawn, Septa Mordane informed Sansa as they broke their fast. “The king sent for him. Another hunt, I do believe. There are still wild aurochs in these lands, I am told.”
“I’ve never seen an aurochs,” Sansa said, feeding a piece of bacon to Lady under the table. The direwolf took it from her hand, as delicate as a queen.
Septa Mordane sniffed in disapproval. “A noble lady does not feed dogs at her table,” she said, breaking off another piece of comb and letting the honey drip down onto her bread.
“She’s not a dog, she’s a direwolf,” Sansa pointed out as Lady licked her fingers with a rough tongue. “Anyway, Father said we could keep them with us if we want.”
The septa was not appeased. “You’re a good girl, Sansa, but I do vow, when it comes to that creature you’re as willful as your sister Arya.” She scowled. “And where is Arya this morning?”
“She wasn’t hungry,” Sansa said, knowing full well that her sister had probably stolen down to the kitchen hours ago and wheedled a breakfast out of some cook’s boy.
—A Game of Thrones - Sansa I
Rattleshirt’s dogs greeted him with a chorus of snarls and growls and wild barking, as ever, but the direwolf paid them no mind. Six days ago, the largest hound had attacked him from behind as the wildlings camped for the night, but Ghost had turned and lunged, sending the dog fleeing with a bloody haunch. The rest of the pack maintained a healthy distance after that.
—A Storm of Swords - Jon I
"They’re dogs and he’s a wolf,” said Jon. “They know he’s not their kind.” No more than I am yours.
—A Storm of Swords - Jon I
It happened twice more that night, and again in the morning, when she woke to find him hard. The wildlings were stirring by then, and several could not help but notice what was going on beneath the pile of furs. Jarl told them to be quick about it, before he had to throw a pail of water over them. Like a pair of rutting dogs, Jon thought afterward. Was that what he’d become?
—A Storm of Swords - Jon III
Sansa woke and found the old blind dog beside her once again. “I wish that you were Lady,” she said.
—A Storm of Swords - Sansa VI
Just look at that, Jon and Sansa telling us that they are wolves and common dogs aren't good mates for wolves. Wolves must mate with wolves.
Then you said: "Burn wounds (Jon on his right arm/Hound on the right side of his face)"
If I'm not remembering wrong, Jon only got his hand burned, that's why he started to use gloves and flex his hand because his scarred fingers got stiff and clumsy. And the hound also have a burned arm, don't remember what side, but it happened during the trial by combat with Beric Dondarrion. And here I can accept the similarity of getting a hand/an arm burned while fighting against someone who is dead [a man resurrected by the Others (ICE)/a man resurrected by R'hllor (FIRE)]. But this is something that has not direct link with Sansa.
The link between Jon and hound with the death is something that I can't deny, Jon called his direwolf Ghost and he was supposedly "murdered" by his brothers of the Night's Watch, while the hound called his horse Stranger and he metaphorically died at the Quiet Island. But they both share this connection with the death with Arya, who now serves the God of Death, not Sansa.
I know that Lady (a part of Sansa) is also dead and now is referred as Lady's Shade (a synonym of Ghost), but I think this is a particular connection with Jon. A master without a direwolf, a direwolf without a master. There is also the fact that Lady's bones are buried in Winterfell's Lichyard, in a similar way as Lyanna's remains are buried in the Crypts of Winterfell (They both went south and only their bones came back). This connection is very particular and specifically with Jon.
I also know that the hound shippers use this connection with the death to make their fave a Hades figure for Sansa's Persephone. They also associate the three hounds of Clegane's sigil with Cerberus, Hades's three headed hound. And there's also the fact the the hound's horse is called Stranger, like one of the Seven Gods.
The God of Death???? A God with a magical pet???? Sounds more similar to Jon, a man who will conquest the death, and his magical beast companion Ghost, right????
But those shippers always lift their fave (a back row character) to a protagonist level, so they can compare him with actual protagonists like King Arthur, Lancelot, the Beast, Hades, Vincent, Lord Byron, etc. While GRRM calls their fave a villain in every occasion, his shippers call him a Byronic and/or romantic hero.
But Hades (Brother of Zeus) and Persephone (Daughter of Zeus and Demeter) were related, they were uncle and niece, you know, like Lord Jon(nel) Stark and his half-niece, the first Sansa Stark.
And finally you mentioned the "infamous" "Batb imagery". And I said infamous for all the damage that the Batb imagery associated with the hound has caused.
If I remember correctly, GRRM said that he has used a deconstructed version of the Batb trope for Jaime and Brienne. I don't remember any other mention of the Batb trope for other pair of characters.
The one that said he used the Batb imagery to draw the Blackwater scene was the illustrator of the 2012 Asoiaf Calendar, John Picacio. GRRM never "commissioned" an illustration with Sansa and the hound as the Beauty and the Beast. GRRM suggested the illustrator to draw the Blackwater scene (probably he wanted a more accurate representation of that scene) and it was John Picacio who decided to draw the Blackwater scene similar to the Jean Cocteau's film "La Belle et la Bête" poster (Asoiaf artists have a lot of creative license). And later John Picacio gifted a black and white version of that piece to GRRM and he hung it on his office wall. But of course the shippers made up alternative facts to feed their narrative.
Now, despite GRRM never mentioned something about it, it's evident that Sansa is surrounded by Batb imagery, where she is the Beauty, but there is a lot of "beasts" on the prowl.
If we go for ugliness only (inside and out), there is the hound but also Tyrion Lannister and Petyr Baelish.
In the middle we can put the handsome and gallant Loras Tyrell, who never had true affection for Sansa and even accused her of murdering King Joffrey. Now Loras Tyrell, if we can trust Aurane Waters reports to Cersei, has lost his beauty and lie dying wounded and burned by boiling oil.
But If we go deeper than physical beauty (or lack of it), there's JoJo, I mean, there's Joffrey and Jon Snow. Joffrey is the handsome gallant prince who is a real monster inside (and also a bastard), and Jon Snow is the prince in disguise as a bastard who is also a warg, half beast and half human. They both also lived in enchanted/cursed castles and are associated with certain roses. Joffrey lived all his life in the Red Keep and also visited Winterfell, and later spurned Sansa to marry a rose, Margaery Tyrell. Jon Snow lived all his life in Winterfell until he moved to Castle Balck and he is the blue rose (hidden baby) of the Rose of Winterfell (Lyanna) that was abducted by Rhaegar Targaryen (Bael the Bard).
JoJo are kind of switched a birth scenario that I personally believe is the way GRRM adapted the fact that Avenant and the Beast/Prince from Jean Cocteau's film "La Belle et la Bête" were played by the same actor and had the same face, and at the end Belle admitted to the Prince that she loved Avenant's face (beauty) and was happy that he (the Prince) had the same face she loved.
The hound is no prince in disguise, has zero connection with a rose or an enchanted/cursed castle, and more important, he is nothing like the Beast from the tale or Jean Cocteau's film or Vincent from the TV adaptation. All those version of the Beast were kind, gentle and cultured despite their beastly appearance, and most important, they never forced themselves on Beauty, they asked and needed her consent as a way to break the curse.
But the hound shippers will claim over and over that their ship is a the Asoiaf version of the Beauty and the Beast tale, inspired by Jean Cocteau's film and/or the TV adaptation, that the scenes are the same, that the dialogues are the same, etc. And all of that it's just alternative facts and wishful thinking.
As you can see in these posts, the scenes aren't the same and the dialogues aren't the same either.
You can read more about the subject here:
Some fanon/made up things that certain shippers claim to be canon about their ship & the Beauty and the Beast Trope
ASOIAF FANART & CREATIVE LICENSE
In the original fairy tale ‘La Belle et la Bête’ by Madame de Villeneuve, Beauty and Beast/Prince are cousins
There is a version of Beauty and the Beast where the Beast is a white wolf
And if you are really interested in the subject, I recommend you to read @princess-in-a-tower metas:
Sansa’s “Beauty and the Beast” Arc, Part 1
Sansa’s “Beauty and the Beast” Arc, Part 2
Sansa’s “Beauty and the Beast” Arc, Part 3
Sansa’s “Beauty and the Beast” Arc, Part 4
Sansa’s “Beauty and the Beast” Arc, Part 5
Jon’s “Beauty and the Beast” Arc Intro
And to finish this post, let's wonder: Will Jon be cynical, temperamental, and beast like (like the hound) when he’s resurrected???? I hope he's nothing like the hound ever.
I think Jon will probably be more wolf that human, but I don't think he will be dangerous or violent or abusive to Sansa. Being more wolf than human Jon will recognize Sansa's as part of his pack, so I suspect he will be extremely protective of her but probably dangerous for others, especially if he remembers that his own brothers tried to killed him.
And we can agree that Sansa will help Jon to reconnect with his humanity and tame his wolf nature. After all she "tamed" a lot of beasts, not only the hound, like Joffrey, when she convinced him to give a coin to the starving woman with her baby's corpse; like Tyrion, when she outsmarted him and met Dontos in the Godswood every night to plan her scape from King's Landing. And she will do the same with Petyr Baelish (or Tyrion again) when she slay the savage giant in a castle made of snow.
Having said all that, I would call the hound and Ygritte "distractions", especially for cursory readers (George hates to be predictable). But in any case, we can agree to disagree.
Thanks for your message :)
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━━━ .°˖✧ romance tropes ⋆˙⊹
𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑖𝑠 𝑤ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝐼 𝑎𝑚 𝑔𝑜𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑜 𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑡 𝑎 𝑙𝑖𝑠𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑚𝑜𝑛𝑙𝑦 𝑢𝑠𝑒𝑑 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑢𝑛𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑚𝑜𝑛𝑙𝑦 𝑢𝑠𝑒𝑑 𝑟𝑜𝑚𝑎𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑝𝑒𝑠. 𝑒𝑎𝑐ℎ 𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑖𝑡𝑠 𝑜𝑤𝑛 𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑡 𝑑𝑒𝑑𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑢𝑏𝑔𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑝𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑝𝑒, 𝑜𝑟 𝑗𝑢𝑠𝑡 ℎ𝑒𝑙𝑝𝑓𝑢𝑙 𝑠𝑖𝑡𝑢𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑝𝑢𝑡 𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑜𝑐𝑠 𝑖𝑛 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑝𝑒.
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˖⁺ ⊹୨ forbidden romance ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when a character cannot openly be in a relationship with someone for some reason ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ enemies to lovers ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when two characters are enemies / in violent opposition to each other in the beginning but gradually end up in love ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ friends to lovers ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when two characters are friends first, but end up falling in love with each other ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ dark/taboo tropes ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ romance between two people that is considered inappropriate or wrong/not acceptable in society ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ opposites attract ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when two characters are drastically different people/opposite personalities but still somehow love each other ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ unrequited love ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when a character loves someone who is unattainable for some reason. one sided love. ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ fake relationship ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when two characters feel no romantic feelings for one another but are forced to be together. in some cases, they eventually fall in love. ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ fish out of water ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when a character is in an unfamiliar environment and has to adapt. think city girl on a farm. ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ soul mates au ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when two characters are meant to be together from birth, destiny, or soul ties. ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ oblivious to love ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when a character is clueless about their own romantic feelings towards someone else ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ reverse harem ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ consists of one female protagonist and three or more male love interests. although I have heard varying definitions. ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ secret identity ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when two characters are in love but one is not being truthful with who they really are/they’re hiding something from their love interest (like spiderman) ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ love triangle ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when two characters are in love, but a third party loves one of the characters as well. or, one character is confused between two people who they love (edward x bella x jacob, stefan x elena x damon) ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
━━━ .°˖✧ 𝑻𝑹𝑶𝑷𝑬𝑺 𝑻𝑯𝑨𝑻 𝑵𝑬𝑬𝑫 𝑵𝑶 𝑬𝑿𝑷𝑳𝑨𝑵𝑨𝑻𝑰𝑶𝑵 ⋆˙⊹ 𝑡𝘩𝑒𝑠𝑒 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑝𝑒𝑠 𝑡𝘩𝑎𝑡 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑣𝑒𝑟𝑦 𝒔𝒆𝒍𝒇-𝒆𝒙𝒑𝒍𝒂𝒏𝒂𝒕𝒐𝒓𝒚. 𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑛 𝑗𝑓 𝑖 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑒 𝑢𝑝 𝑤𝑖𝑡𝘩 𝑠𝑐𝑒𝑛𝑎𝑟𝑖𝑜𝑠 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑡𝘩𝑒𝑚 𝑖𝑡 𝑤𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 𝑜𝑛𝑙𝑦 𝑏𝑒 𝑎 𝑐𝑜𝑢𝑝𝑙𝑒, 𝑠𝑜 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒚 𝒉𝒂𝒗𝒆 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒊𝒓 𝒐𝒘𝒏 𝒔𝒆𝒄𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏. . ݁₊ ⊹ . ݁˖ .݁
˖⁺ ⊹୨ marriage ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when a character is forced to marry another for some reason (arranged marriage) ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ dark past ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when a character has trauma or pain because of their past, and their love interest helps them heal. ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ amnesia / memory loss ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when a character loses their memory and has to regain their love and memories for another. ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ alpha hero ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when a male character is overprotective, bossy, jealous, possessive, and have great sexual appeal. think bad boy, biker, ceo fanfics. This can also be military men, superhero’s, men in leadership. a vague category. ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ one bed trope ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when two characters are forced to share a bed 👅 you should know this one ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ forced proximity ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when two characters are forced into small spaces together or forced to be together in the same room. ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ beauty and the beast ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when a typically male character is capable of great rage and destructive, sometimes a literal monster, but the fem character loves them beyond their looks and sees the good in them. doesn’t have to be a literal monster. ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ in peril tropes ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when a character is in some sort of crisis and has to be saved by love interest. ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ job related tropes ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when a character is attracted to someone because of their job, or their romance happens at work/ a specific location (corrupt priest, military man, construction worker). can be taboo. ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
˖⁺ ⊹୨ time travel ୧⊹ ⁺˖ ━━ when a character travels back or forward in time and falls in love with someone from that time period. ˚୨୧⋆。˚ ⋆
authors note: I am going to be making posts describing each trope individually as well as sub-genres and examples of that trope. I had something similar to this in my notes for my stories and decided to share. there are a lot of tropes out there, so feel free to comment other ones. remember you are loved and important <3
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