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silentfanmusings · 2 years

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Todoroki Family Abuse Analysis

So, I’ve been thinking about the Todoroki family, specifically Enji’s abuse, and I want to know…

When did Enji start to physically abuse his wife and children?

I can speculate based on what is canonically shown during any of the Todoroki family flashbacks in the manga and anime, but it’s hard to know if my interpretation is true without it being stated outright.

Canonically we know that he has hit Shouto (5) so hard that he ended up puking. Afterwards, when Rei tried to get him to stop being so harsh with Shouto, he hit her and knocked her aside (in anime only scene).

From Ch 39 - Todoroki Shouto: Origin

The next time we see Enji physically hit someone is during The Wrong Way to Put Out a Fire (Ch 301 and 302) - which dived into the Todoroki backstory more and focused on Touya’s trauma - when he hits Rei for not stopping Touya from going to Sekoto Peak (implied by the fact that she’s lying on the floor), and Shouto steps in to protect his mother.

From Ch 302 - The Wrong Way to Put out a Fire Part 2

Enji also roughly grabbed both Touya and Shouto: Touya when he found he was training when he grabbed Touya’s shoulders and later on in order to pull back his clothing to reveal his burns after finding out that he was going to Sekoto Peak; Enji’s also dragged Shouto behind him towards the training room while refusing to allow him to spend time playing with his siblings.

From Ch 301 and Ch 302

(1st image (Ch 301): Touya 8; 2nd image (Ch 302): Touya 13)

From Ch 39 and Ch 302

So looking at all these images, while it’s hard to tell for certain, I highly doubt that Enji was physically abusive towards Rei or his kids before Shouto was born. She was uneasy around Enji, but she also didn’t appear afraid to talk back to him slightly when she was proven right about Enji’s mishandling of Touya’s situation.

At this point she probably felt safe enough to express her opinion towards Enji and try to get him to look at the situation and stop being so stubborn and neglecting the fact that Touya needed help and wanted his father’s attention.

From Ch 302

After this point in time we have a time skip. So what has been going on with the family between the point when Touya (8) attacked baby Shouto and five years later when Shouto (5) started training is unknown. All we know for certain is that Shouto was isolated from his older siblings, and Rei was tasked with keeping an eye on Touya.

We don’t really see any scenes of Rei and Enji alone together after the time jump. Enji was probably rough with her, that’s implied, and he likely got angry at Rei for calling him out on things, but I believe one of the first times he’s actually struck her was after Shouto started training when he was 5. When he was also being harsh and brutal with Shouto in the name of training him. (I am absolutely not blaming the physical abuse starting on Shouto. This is entirely on Enji and his own actions. But Enji having a proper successor likely triggered him to become more abusive.)

There’s nothing to indicate that Enji was this aggressive and harsh when training Touya as a child, even if he was training Touya from a younger age. Touya definitely saw his training with his father as something fun to do together and a way to show that he could become a hero and make his Quirk stronger.

This likely means that while Rei was concerned about Enji’s goals and obsession after they found out that Touya’s Quirk would continue harming him, she was unaware that Enji would start harming his family in pursuit of his goals. He didn’t want Touya harming himself. So Enji’s solution was to have more children to get Touya to give up on being a hero, while also providing Enji with a proper successor/heir. Rei knew that this was cruel and wouldn’t help Touya, but she obviously relented to Enji’s desires to have more children.

And it took two attempts, and nearly 4 years, for Shouto to be born. And even after that, Enji had to wait for Shouto’s Quirk to manifest and for Shouto to be older to begin training. And by that point, it’s been nearly a decade between when he stopped training Touya and when he could properly begin Shouto’s training.

All of this makes me think that Enji didn’t really start getting physical with Rei and Shouto until he started training Shouto when he was 5; while he was neglectful of Touya, Fuyumi, and Natsuo since Shout was born. By this point, Rei’s mental health was deteriorating from the stress of living in the house. But I believe that once Enji started taking his anger and frustration about Touya out on Rei and Shouto physically that Rei reached her tipping point.

From Ch 39

Which is what led to the Tea Kettle Incident that ended up with Rei removal from the house after she harmed Shouto during a mental breakdown.

There’s absolutely no denying that Enji was mentally and emotionally abusive towards his family. But Shouto’s birth was when Enji started to see his goals within reach. Before that point, he’s mostly just neglected being a father towards any of his children. It’s only after Shouto that he has also been shown being physically abusive in addition to mentally and emotionally abusive.

But Enji’s spiral further into his obsessive mindset ended up with him taking out his anger on his family - likely starting with verbal and mental abuse to make his family fear him before taking things to the physical extreme.

He also likely became even worse with Shouto once Rei was out of the house, and then there was the added tragedy of Touya’s death on Sekoto Peak pushing Enji to take things further. Because if Touya was killed by Enji’s ambitions to be #1, then Shouto had to be perfect. Otherwise Touya’s death would have been for nothing.

From Ch 302

Enji knows that his ambitions killed Touya. But instead of realizing that he’s taken his obsession too far, killing his eldest son, breaking his wife, neglecting his other children, and harming Shouto in the name of training. He doubled down on all his bad actions and continued to abuse the rest of his family by either ignoring them completely or controlling their entire lives.

And he didn’t even start trying to atone for any of his actions and abuse until nearly a decade after Touya died, and after realizing what it was like to become #1 Hero. Having not actually earned it himself, but instead getting it by default when All Might retired from the position.

He destroyed his family and didn’t see all the damage he has done and willfully ignored it all until finally looking back on all the actions over the last 20 years and saw the broken family he had created.

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fra080389-2-me · 1 year

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Some "why-they-even-bothered-to-do-it" changes in the anime:

The fact Rei was always bringing the lunch on a tray to Enji every time we saw them talking without their children

Enji being in his hero costume when he went to search for Touya

A severely lack of All Might being All Might in those flashbacks, they were the cherry on the top in the manga

The first point in particular, it confounds me... Like... why? What Bones was trying to say there? That there was no other occasion of communication between them beside when she brought him food in the training room, because he never went out of it? Or it was just to make us to see he was regularly deserting family lunches, the same family lunches we know Enji is now dreaming from a while, with his family all dining happily without him (but apparently that would totally normal even with him in the house, according this)? Was it to enhance Rei's position as "traditional house wife", and to underline how much it felt different in the last season (the Ending episode) with Enji eating with the others and washing dishes? Or they just wanted to stress how much he obsessed on his work, always being in the training room at home, and in hero uniform outside?

Either way, meh.

Another difference is the engagement scene: Enji's eyes were more thin (like in his "bad days") and they used a lot more words to explain Rei's relatives were not beggars needing of money to survive, but entitled people being greed, and clearing up how they made it to look as a common arranged marriage for the public but the involved people all knew it was a quirk marriage. They wanted to stress the fact Rei knew what she was accepting (not the abuse but that the purpose of the marriage was to produce the perfect heir, justifying Touya's rage against her) and the fact she could refuse the arrangement. But the scene with Enji being angry and looking at her with blame after Natsuo's birth, kind to weaken that excellent point. And that is a shame, because people marrying and having children without to properly reflect about what that means for the new life you are creating, people making arrangements without to care about the fact they are signing up more than themself in the deal, is a problem that deserves more attention. But I think that it hit too much close to home, there are so many people who put children in this world without to be prepared, they don't want to feel blamed and hear they should to do things differently, especially if they are suffering too. But if we don't talk about it, nothing can change.

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kouendeavor · 2 years

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The most god-awful angle

#bnha #bnha afo #bnha endeavor #todoroki enji #bnha all for one #endeavor #bnha 302 #bnha 364 #my edit

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yreapwhatyasow · 1 year

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“You’re Telling Me to Buzz Off Too Natsu?!”

“I’m Talking to You Cause You’re the Only one Who Gets it!”

#dabi #my art tt #toya todoroki #bnha s6 #bnha spoilers #bnha anime #chp 302: the wrong way to put out a fire part 2 #todoroki family #mha dabi #boku no hero academia #bnha dabi

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grumpykt · 5 months

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#302 #bnha spoilers #bnha manga spoilers #bnha #manga #spoilers #dabi #endeavor

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lowqualitytodofam · 2 years

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no talk him he angy

#bnha #dabi #touya #302 #on a serious note though he’s so small wtffff

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sol-em-gemeos · 2 years

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#todoroki family #todoroki #endeavor #bnha #bnha spoilers #chapter 302 #my hero academia #manga cap

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bnhaobservation · 4 months

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BNHA Observations, speculations and assorted info: The facts taking place during the year that ends with Rei's hospitalization and Tōya's assumed death

So, in order to write my fic, I spend much time observing canon scenes, comparing the manga and the anime version, take note of details, translations and info in them as well as finding out how are some things called.

Since what I noticed/speculated/found out can be of use for other fic authors I thought to share as well.

Resources:

Chapter 31 The Boy Born with Everything (全てを持って生まれた男の子 Subete o Motte Umareta Otoko no Ko) Chapter 39 Todoroki Shōto: Origin (轟焦凍：オリジン Todoroki Shōto: Origin) Chapter 44 Relaxing Day Off (休め振替休日 Yasume Furikae Kyūjitsu) Chapter 93 One For All's Ember (残り火ワンフォーオール Nokoribi One For All) Chapter 166 Be Proud, License Trainees (ホッコれ仮免講習 Hokkore Karimen Kōshū) Chapter 187 Flaming Roar! vs. Nomu: High-End (燃えよ轟け！VS脳無：ハイエンド Moeyo Todoroke! Versus Nōmu: High-End) Chapter 188 Your Father, the Number One Hero (父はNo.1ヒーロー Chichi wa Number One Hero) Chapter 192 The Todoroki Family (轟家 Todoroki-ke) Chapter 202 Match 3 (第3セット Daisan Set) Chapter 204 Tuning Up (チューニング Tuning) Chapter 249 The Hellish Todoroki Family (地獄の轟くん家 Jigoku no Todoroki-kun-chi Chapter 250 Ending (エンディング Ending) Chapter 290 Dabi's Dance (ダビダンス Dabi Dance) Chapter 302 The Wrong Way to Put Out a Fire, Part 2 (火の不始末後編 Hi no Fushimatsu Kōhen) Chapter 350 Bound to a Fiery Fate (エン En)

Episode 19 The Boy Born with Everything (全てを持って生まれた男の子 Subete o Motte Umareta Otoko no Ko) Episode 23 Todoroki Shōto: Origin (轟焦凍：オリジン Todoroki Shōto: Origin) Episode 25 Todoroki vs. Bakugō (轟VS爆豪 Todoroki versus Bakugō) Episode 49 One For All (ワン・フォー・オール) Episode 88 His Start (始まりの Hajimarino) Episode 90 Vestiges (面影 Omokage) Episode 95 Match 3 (第３試合 Daisan Shiai) Episode 96 Match 3 Conclusion (第３試合決着 Daisan Shiai Ketchaku) Episode 105 The Hellish Todoroki Family (地獄の轟くん家 Jigoku no Todoroki-kun-chi) Episode 106 The Unforgiven (許されざる者 Yurusarezaru-mono) Episode 124 Dabi's Dance (ダビダンス Dabi Dance) Episode 130 The Wrong Way to Put Out a Fire (火の不始末 Hi no Fushimatsu)

Series 4th Outro2 "Shout Baby" by Ryoku Oushoku Shakai

My Hero Academia: School Briefs I (僕のヒーローアカデミア雄英白書 I Boku no Hīrō Akademia U.A. Hakusho I) - Part 2 Notice from School My Hero Academia: School Briefs V (僕のヒーローアカデミア雄英白書祝 Boku no Hero Academia Hakusho Iwai) - Part 3 Awkward Year's-End Soba

OBSERVATIONS, SPECULATIONS AND ASSORTED INFO:

Fundamentally the year that lead to Rei's hospitalization and Touya's death is narrated into two different moments, chap 31/39, in which we've a retelling of how bad it was from Shouto's point of view and chap 290/302, in which we learn instead of Touya's side.

However, there's a fundamental difference in the two narrations. When the story tackles Touya's side, we can more or less pinpoint the dates of when this is happening, the same can't be said for when the story tackles Shouto's side. There's probably a narrative reason for this, Touya's whole story (which covers much more than just this year) is a progression of things going from good to terrible, while Shouto's story is likely meant to narrate the constant horror in which he and his mother lived until Rei lost it. So there's not really a need to pinpoint when a scene took place because that scene likely kept on repeating in similar variants for days, until Rei became unable to take it any longer.

As a result I'll narrate some fact that are part of Shouto's side first, so as to give the idea they likely repeated over and over through that year, while I'll follow the timeline of Touya's side of the story more closely.

So anyway let's dig on what happened that year.

Warning: as tumblr now has an image limit (no more than 30 per post), I had to turn more images into a single one so as to show the full scene. The result is that the image quality in some scenes is pretty low... Please, use the images solely as a visual reference of which scene you need to look at and, for the text check your own copy of BNHA.

TIMELINE

January 11: Todoroki Shōto is 5.

January 18: Todoroki Tōya is 13.

April: Todoroki Tōya starts his second year at Middle school - Todoroki Fuyumi starts Middle school - Todoroki Natsuo starts his 3rd year at Elementary school. - Todoroki Shōto attends preschool.

[Preeschool in Japan isn't mandatory but we know Shōto attended to it as Chap 166 shows on its cover the photo taken at the preschool entrance ceremony... the photo might not be necessarily taken in this year as kids can start preschool from when they're 3 but it just confirms Shōto went at it]

Sometime during the year: Endeavor and All Might talked for the last time.

A note on the translation:

‘Chō hisashiburi! 10-Nen mae no taidan furi ka na! ? Mikaketakara aisatsu shi tokou to omotte ne.’ 「超久し振り！10年前の対談振りかな！？見かけたから挨拶しとこうと思ってね。」 “It’s been a long time! It's from the talk/conversation show from 10 years ago, right! ? I saw you and thought I'd say hello.”

Endeavor and All Might's conversation is called ‘taidan furi’ (対談振り) where ‘taidan’ (対談) means “a discussion between two people which is usually set up as a special occasion and whose topic is set in advance”… while ‘furi’ (振り) is “show”. So basically, 10 years ago they didn’t have a casual chat but ended up together in some sort of talk show / combined interview. The anime makes it even more obvious because in it the sentence is:

‘10-Nen mae, media de taidan shite irai ka na! ? !’ 「10年前、メディアで対談して以来かな！？！」 “I think it's been since we had a conversation on the media 10 years ago!?”

During the year: Shōto watches All Might on television when his father isn't around [shown in chap 39 and 206. We see that Shōto's clothes are different in the two scenes and so is his position, meaning he did it more than once which "School Briefs" also confirms]

“You always were a fan of All Might, weren’t you, Shōto? But you had to wait until your father wasn’t around to watch those video clips in secret. Remember?” [Rei from "My Hero Academia: School Briefs I"]

During the year: Shōto's training is so severe it causes him to throw up. Rei tries to get in between him and Enji protesting he's only 5 and gets hit. [shown in chap 39, 202, 204]

Actually we don't know if Chapter 202 & 204 are placed in this same year (Shōto is still small but Rei isn't present and Shōto and Enji are dressed differently so it's not the same time as chap 39... and likely chap 202 and 204 show two different scenes as well since in one Enji has his moustaches on fire while in the other is his beard... never mentioning in chap 202 Shōto already has his scar so this likely happened post him being burn and could as well take place in the following year, though the fact that Enji has long sleeves might imply it's still winter...) but they seems to show other scenes of Shōto's training which still sees him throwing up and crying, which surely confirm an abusive pattern.

A note on the translation:

'Tōya wa oshikatta. Ore ijō no karyoku o sonaete irunoni. Rei no taishitsu o motte shimatte… Aitsu wa… oshikatta' 「燈矢は惜しかった。俺以上の火力を備えているのに冷の体質を持ってしまって… あいつは…惜しかった」 “Tōya was close/disappointing/something I feel regret for/deserving better. Even though he has more firepower than me. He had Rei's constitution… That guy… was close/disappointing/something I feel regret for/deserving better.”

Oishikatta (惜しかった) has quite a bunch of meanings like to feel regret for, to find something a pity/pitiful, to mourn but also to cherish, to love dearly, to be precious... and is used to express pity/regret of an "almost but not quite" situation, in "a damn it, you were so close" kind of way.

Very likely the emphasis in the sentence isn't that Tōya could almost do it, but that it was so unfortunate Tōya couldn't do it.

This doesn't necessarily mean Tōya was already dead because it was decided Tōya couldn't fulfill Enji's ambitions way prior his death and way prior Shōto's birth.

BTW, Tōya started burning himself before Natsuo was conceived. In order for their age difference to work, it means Enji started training Tōya when Tōya was 3 (yeah, it's possible he started earlier than this age but I find difficult that a child of 2 could pull it out successfully). As a result it's possible he started training Shōto at that age as well. In case someone doesn't remember it, Quirks don't appear when one is 4 but can appear even earlier (luminescent baby anyone?), Shōto could freeze his own snot as an infant and it's implied that Enji knew Tōya had a fire Quirk when they conceived Fuyumi (meaning when Tōya was 2 months or younger) so starting their training before 4 wasn't impossible.

During the year: While Shōto is scared at the idea of becoming like his father, someone who abuses his mother, Rei comfort him saying he can decide who he'll become. [Chap 39... I pieced back the scene for better visual]

During the year: Tōya is desperate because he can't figure his reason to exist and search comfort in Natsuo [Chap 290]

Likely in sprind, anyway prior to July (as Natsuo isn't 9 yet): Tōya, Natsuo and Fuyumi play together while Shōto can only watch them. Enji refuses to let him join them saying he needs to train and they belong to different worlds. [Chap 302 & 39 & 250]

July 1: Todoroki Natsuo is 9.

Likely summer, though it could be still spring: Natsuo refuses to listen to Tōya’s complains during the night, telling him to go talk with Fuyumi. [Chap 302]

August 8: Todoroki Enji/Endeavor is 36.

Likely autumn (Rei's sleeves are longer): Rei tries to stop Tōya from leaving the house and the two have an argument. [Chap 302]

During the year: Rei begins to break starting to cry way too often to the point Shōto will end up remembering her solely crying and will forget her smiling. [Chap 31]

December 6: Todoroki Fuyumi is 13.

Winter: Tōya’s flames turn blue. [Chap 302]

A note on the translation:

'Hayaumare no chīsana karada ni yōyaku otozure hajimeta nijiseichō’「早生まれの小さな身体に漸く訪れ始めた二次性徴」 "Secondary sexual characteristics have finally begun to appear in the small body of the hayaumare.”

'Hayaumare' isn't a premature kid but someone born between January 1 and April 1. In Japan this is relevant because in order to start school you need to be 6 by the time the 2 of April comes around, meaning the Hayaumare are the youngest kids in the class as they're born in the year following the one in which the other kids, or ‘Osoumare’ (遅生まれ "born in between April 2 and December 31"), were born.

Winter (likely in a different day as the black bars on the corner hint at time passing by... possibly because when Tōya came back home Enji wasn't there yet?): Tōya asks his father to come to Sekoto Peak with him his next day off. [Chap 302]

Winter (likely in the same day): Todoroki Enji/Endeavor hits Todoroki Rei for not stopping Todoroki Tōya from training. [Chap 302]

Winter (the morning of another day as Todoroki Shōto has just woken up): Rei snaps and burns Shōto. [Chap 31, 39, 249, 302]

“Shōto?” he said, facing the sliding fusuma screen. No response. Natsuo slid the screen aside, not expecting to find his brother inside, but there he was-fast asleep on the Futon that he’s clearly plopped down onto without much care, all askew. Moving quietly so as not to wake Shōto, Natsuo crept over and peered at his brother’s face. He looked surprisingly young, despite the burn scar that sat heavily on his face like a shadow. Having been abused by Endeavor-who’s been fixated on his own ambition. Todoroki Rei had snapped one day and thrown scalding water in Shōto’s face. Natsuo would never forget the pair of tear-filled screams he’d heard that day. How painful it must have been, he thought. Natsuo caught himself extending a finger toward the scar but quickly curled it away when he realized what he was doing. Shōto’s scar probably wouldn’t exist if only the boy hadn’t inherited aspects of both his parents’ Quirks. Maybe Shōto could have enjoyed a normal childhood, full of carefree days playing with his siblings. And yet I couldn’t do a thing… Natsuo had been in elementary school when it had happened. Their father, Endeavor, had ignored his family well-being in pursuit of his ambitions-ambitions he’d projected onto young Shōto. Even now, Natsuo would beat himself up over how he used to be before the abuse really began, recalling the period in his life that had made him feel pathetic and ashamed. Before Shōto was born, Natsuo had sought his father’s love and care, and when Endeavor was around, he would turn into an excited ball of energy, eager for attention. But that love never came. It was only thanks to his warm and caring mother that Natsuo had survived those early years and learned to cope with rejection from his other parent. But after Shōto was born, even their mother grew distant, though not out of indifference. Natsuo could sense how much energy she had to devote to protecting her youngest, her baby, from her husband’s so called training-which most would label abuse- but at that age, Natsuo couldn’t help but feel that his mother had been stolen from him. After witnessing his mother and brother crying and screaming on that horrible day, Natsuo had been overcome with crushing shame. [My Hero Academia: School Briefs V]

Winter (the same day or the one after it... Shōto's clothes are different but he might have had to change because he got wet... on the other side it's also possible that Rei's hospitalization wasn't done the same day but Enji had to do preparations for it): Rei is consequently hospitalized and put in isolation. After learning about his mother's hospitalization Shōto decides to blame his father for this. [Chap 39]

A note on the translation:

'Omae ni kigai o kuwaetanode byōin ni ireta. Mattaku… daijina tokida to iu no ni…' 「おまえに危害を加えたので病院に入れた。全く…大事な時だと言うのに…」 "I put her in a hospital because she hurt you. Good grief... even though it's an important time..."

Enji is actually more specific in what he says to Shōto about Rei's fate, saying he put her in a hospital and didn't call her a fool but uses an expression of general exhasperation 'mattaku'.

Winter (likely on Todoroki Enji/Endeavor’s day off, Tōya's clothes are also noticeably different from the ones he had when he asked his father to go with him on Sekoto Peak): Tōya goes on Sekoto Peak, waiting for his father. When his father doesn’t arrive and the lights go down he ends up setting himself on fire losing his lower jaw before he manages to enter in a stream. He is then found and taken away by All for One. Enji reaches Sekoto Peak but can’t find his son except for a piece of his jawbone. Tōya is assumed dead even if Enji at first claims he didn't want to accept it. However this will lead him to focus even more on Shōto. [Chap 291, 302, 350]

Winter (after Tōya's death): After Rei's hospitalization Shōto will never visit her until he'll be in U.A. High school. Rei's psychological condition will get worse. Fuyumi, despite knowing about her family's sad situation was and will remain too scared to do anything beyond keeping up appearances. Natsuo will gradually forget things but will keep on resenting Enji for what happened to his mother and to his siblings. [Chap 39, 187, 250, 302]

TIMELINE CONSISTENCY PROBLEMS

Either Horikoshi didn't plan the Todoroki timeline or decided to change things along the way as, occasionally, what the characters say happened in a chapter get contraddicted in another... or make them seem uncaring of Enji's neglect of Natsuo (and Fuyumi) and of how he eventually casued Tōya's death.

Mind you, I'm sure they all cared about Tōya's death and about the neglect Natsuo and Fuyumi suffered because otherwise the characterization wouldn't make sense. This is likely a problem in the narration, not an attempt of the narration to deny the care.

Anyway I'm gonna list the problems in narration now. Do with them what you want. I'm sure plenty of people has headcanons that solve them just fine. This though isn't a page for theories so I didn't list any of mine either.

Not all of the problems are terrible (the only ones really bad are the ones that consistently change the timeline/why things happened) but some of them can undoubtedly confuse a reader about the characters' feelings.

Let's start with chap 350.

For start this establishes that Tōya assumed his father didn't come to him on Sekoto Peak because he was too busy with work... so the fire took place not after the discussion they had (which fits with how the timeline decided Rei needed to be hospitalized before Tōya were to burn) but neither on Enji's free day apparently... unless Tōya assumed his father gave up on his free day to work some more which is something he had already done in chap 301, when Enji left and refused to train Tōya even though it was his day off... and this can be Tōya's own way to excuse his father for not coming to Sekoto Peak.

However, after this the chapter has Tōya say he has to go back home because he did and say some awful things so he should apologize to his mother and the others and shows his father what he can do.

The problem is... we didn't really see him doing something awful. Yes, he argued with his mother but this was PRIOR to his flames turning blue, as for his siblings his argument with Fuyumi dated to PRIOR Natsuo's birth and the one with Natsuo to PRIOR his argument with his mother and wasn't even a real argument. He just begged his little brother to hear him out.

If there was an argument that day before Tōya left for Sekoto Peak... if he did something... well, this is completely discharged by the plot. It won't even be mentioned when he and his siblings will meet again... not even mentioning his mother was hospitalized and put in isolation PRIOR to him going on Sekoto Peak, so if he had an argument with her we didn't see, it still was way prior to that.

And the same goes for whatever he did of awful... as I've hard time thinking he's referring to accidentally burning down the peak.

Even his discussion with his father doesn't seem to fit the description and if he blames himself for how his father hit his mother... well, that just feel messed up especially since he wasn't even shown being there to see.

Going on.

Chap 39 said Shōto didn't visit Rei because he blamed himself, while chap 250 says it was due to Rei's psychological condition worsening after Tōya's death... to go back on chap 302 volume version which said she was put in isolation PRIOR to Tōya's death (and therefore likely couldn't see anyone even if she wanted to) and then, AFTER Tōya's death she got even worse.

In the magazine version of chap 302 Horikoshi had Rei state that Enji basically became abusive AFTER Tōya's death, and this is what eventually lead Rei to snap and be eventually hospitalized... the whole thing was corrected in the volume version so now the volume version too agrees that Rei was hospitalized FIRST and then Tōya died.

While the thing got 'fixed', the whole correction was done in a sloppy manner... it would have worked much better if the dialogues in whose two scenes were swapped because, if Rei was already hospitalized and put in isolation, she wouldn't have known if, after Tōya's death, Enji got worse. It's hard to think she's referring to the time prior Tōya's death because it feels like a non sequitur since they were talking of the time AFTER IT.

Since the narration was changed retroactively it's possible that in the first planning for the chapter Tōya's flames turning blue, him telling his father, his father abusing Rei and him running to Sekoto Peak (instead than waiting for Enji's day off) took place all in the same day... or better all in the same night as it's dark when Tōya's flames turn blue and it's dark when Tōya burns on Sekoto Peak.

This however becomes impossible when it was decided Rei was hospitalized PRIOR to Tōya dying.

It doesn't help how Rei in chapter 39 focus especially on how she shouldn't stay with Shōto due to his left side being repulsive to her, when chap 302 magazine version also implied Natsuo's look was repulsive to her and the volume version instead change things and made it all about the way they looked at her (but Shōto never looked at her in such a way though okay, she might have been losing it but she should have still worried more about Tōya who glared at her like Enji and also about Natsuo). Of course the problem of chap 39 is likely that what happens in chap 302 was likely not planned and the story was possibly meant to focus solely on Shōto so, of course, she wouldn't want to be near him and wouldn't be troubled by the other kids.

Shōto is supposed to be kept isolated by his siblings, which is also why Natsuo had no idea Shōto liked Soba as, evidently, they never ate together before. However, when Enji attack Rei from the furniture we see they seem to be all in the same room, the television one.

In chap 291 Enji claims he kept searching for Tōya, unable to believe in his death... but chap 302 presents him as resigned and completely focused on Shōto.

Either because Tōya's storiline wasn't planned yet or to keep the secret, the story in its early stages avoid mentioning him... with confusing results.

Shōto, in chap 39, won't mention to Midoriya how his father might have lead to his older brother's demise. The manga will try to excuse it by saying

'Sotsu-sen shita hanasu mon ja nēdaro' 「率先して話すもんじゃねエだろ」 "I wouldn't take the initiative to speak (about it)."

Only... during his first discussion with Midoriya Shōto:

Asked Midoriya if he was All Might illegittimate son

Told him about his father buying his mother for Quirk Marriage

Told him about his mother's depression and how she ended up burning him

Told him about how he was raised to fulfill his father's expecations and how he hated it and how he'll deny his father by refusing to use his Quirk

That's quite a lot he decided to mention, but the fact he didn't mention how his father also lead his oldest brother to his demise made it seems as if Shōto didn't see Enji responsible for it... which also seems confirmed by how, when Fuyumi asks Shōto how he feels about Enji, he replies he blames him solely for his scar and driving his mother to madness, not a word for his dead older brother or for how his siblings suffered of neglect even if Natsuo made clear he still suffers for it.

Shōto is a VERY caring boy. This narrative choice seems to imply he didn't care about his siblings when it's likely the opposite. He cared for Natsuo and likely for Tōya and Fuyumi too. The way the story is told though, is misleading because it makes him look like he only cares about himself and his mother when I don't think that's the case.

Probably though, back in chap 31 Horikoshi either hadn't planned Tōya's storyline yet or wanted to keep it secret and here he didn't want to repeat the whole narration or give too many hints about Tōya's death so he had Shōto skip it and focus on Rei. It's a choice... but it's not a great one.

Enji also for a long while won't show concern for how he caused Tōya's death.

In chap 93 Enji thinks at how his despair lead him to ruin his family... only again there's no mention of Tōya not even visually, again likely because Horikoshi either hadn't planned Tōya's storyline yet or wanted to keep it secret. Still it seems as if Enji doesn't care he lead his son to death for his own ambition.

Chapter 188 is a little better as, at least, Tōya is shown along with his siblings... but it's still not great because, even though Enji is in the middle of his attempt at being a better person, here he worries about his overheating and seems to focus solely on how he married Rei and with her he had three kids who didn't have the Quirk he wanted and then to a kid who had the Quirk he wanted to fight the over heating, and doesn't concern at all with how, in the process, he also abused his family, lead Rei to madness and Tōya to death, but it can work narratively... even if it's not so great because it remarks something we already knew and doesn't focus on his regret (which would have been more important since Enji is trying to be a better person). But okay, it can work.

Probably the worst part is chap 192 because by then Enji is making clear he plans to atone but when he worries about the lives he had cut short, even though Tōya was mentioned, the visual shows us only Rei, as if she were the only life he had cut short (as she ended up in a hospital), skipping the one of his son WHO DIED.

Yes, this is probably to keep the mystery about Tōya but it's still not a great choice since he doesn't seem concerned.

Also probably because Horikoshi either hadn't planned Tōya's (and Natsuo's) storyline yet or wanted to keep it secret in "Ultra Archive" it was said Fuyumi became a teacher solely because she felt bad about the mistreatment Shōto suffered, apparently not caring about the neglect Natsuo suffered or of how Tōya ended up dead.

Fuyumi is also showed 'not caring' when no changes are done regarding to her in chap 302.

In the magazine version Fuyumi saying "I knew our family was broken" with an image of Enji dragging away Shōto and her mother trying to stop it, can be read as "(After Tōya's death) I knew our family was broken" and this allows her to sound like she's in pain for Tōya, Shōto and her mother.

However when the manga version changes things and have Rei hospitalized before Tōya's death, showing her having a flashback of how Enji was dragging away Shōto and her mother trying to stop it, remarks she knew her family was broken PRIOR to Tōya's death but not her feelings in regard to it. This combines negatively with how it was said she became a teacher for what Shōto suffered and paints her as uncaring for what Tōya suffered.

Again, I'm sure Fuyumi cared. It's just when "Ultra Archive" was written either Horikoshi didn't think about this part of the storyline or we weren't meant to know about it so he skipped it, and in chap 302 he merely adjusted things poorly so they ended up having implications he didn't plan.

Shōto going to preschool, where other children are, but being kept isolated by his siblings because they aren't part of the Hero world, seems a contraddiction in the story. While part of it can be due to Tōya's actions when Shōto was a baby, even after Tōya's death it will be said Shōto was kept apart from Natsuo (it's unclear if the same applies to Fuyumi) but then we see that when Shōto is in U.A. he's free to also go out without supervision so it becomes weird how (or why) Enji managed to keep him apart from his siblings, when he was allowed to spend time with whoever he wanted outside of his house... and even in his house he apparently wasn't controlled.

It also doesn't speak so great of Natsuo never attempting to connect with his little brother even if "School Briefs" tries to excuse it by saying it was due to Natsuo's grief.

When giving the green sign to "Vigilantes" Horikoshi likely completely forgot that All Might and Endeavor supposedly didn't meet for 10 years as, in chap 122, the two will cooperate to stop a Villain attack. Since “Vigilantes” takes place AFTER All Might and All for One’s big fight that injured both, it can’t be more than 6 years at the very best but, much likely, it’s less as this takes place at the end of “Vigilantes”. It’s true they didn’t really talk but still, they met.

Also both the anime and the coloured version of the manga give him red hair when, by then, his hair were while.

Credits when it's due though, I don't know if Horikoshi is behind the coloured manga version or another person does the colouring and that person took the anime as inspiration. In the black and white version Horikoshi's design for Tōya is consistent as his hair aren't coloured (while he colour red hair in black), so this could be not Horikoshi's fault.

The anime seems to confirm many scenes took place during night (except for Endeavor searching for Tōya after Sekoto Peak burned)... clearly no one was keeping an eye on Tōya if Enji never noticed how late his son got home and Rei, despite knowing Tōya went on Sekoto Peak to train, never worried about her son being up on a peak alone till late at night...

That's all I could remember/find for now.

The Todoroki storyline remains my favorite in the manga but there's no deny it was handled in a way that ended up contradicting itself, likely sometimes by mistake and sometimes due to change of plans or plot reasons. It's still a great story so don't think I believe the fact it has shortcoming means it's not enjoyable.

#boku no hero academia #bnha spoilers #Todoroki Enji #Todoroki Rei #Todoroki Touya #Todoroki Shouto #Todoroki Fuyumi #Todoroki Natsuo #All for One #bnha observations

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class1akids · 1 year

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“Hero of the family” - Ep 130 vs Ch 302

I might just like the anime version better. Shouto’s expression is absolutely amazing, it hits so hard with the mix of hurt and determination. I love how the focus of on him (and not on the flashback), all his pain is on display, the way you can see him all beat and burnt up with the hate and the rage he didn’t deserve to be directed at him. He’s just a baby - and he’s suffering for his father’s decisions, yet he decides to reach out.

#manga vs anime #todoroki shouto #bnha ep 130 #bnha 302

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kiritouyadeku96 · 1 year

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I’m so excited we’re like two days away from Touya’s backstory, and I’m so excited for more baby Touya and Shouto, ready to be sad and just all round ready for it!

What I’m not ready for is the no doubt re-ignited discourse of “Touya was evil from the start” “Enji was a great father” or hell the few sodden weirdos whom blame baby Shouto for being born 🙄 just in general the all round discourse centred around the Todofam! Not looking forward to that!

#bnha spoilers #mha spoilers #bnha #mha #my hero academia #boku no hero academia #dabi #bnha dabi #todoroki touya #touya todoroki #mha dabi #the todoroki family #dabi is a todoroki #bnha 301 #bnha 302 #bnha s6

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redphlox · 10 days

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If you don't mind me asking 👉👈 but given how horikoshi writes Dabi and how he was raised and the things he probably learned about love, relationships and violence and how he still seeks his family despite it all, do you think he would have become a endeavor 2.0? like narratively he is a mix of all of the ugliest parts of endeavor/the todofam?

Narritvely he is the result of all his parent's bad parenting decisions and his trauma but no, because BNHA is a story about how people can change the course of their lives by changing their ways (Bakugo, Shouto, Endeavor, etc) and accepting help/love (villain Trio, etc). Plus, Touya is self-aware of not only his actions (still wanting his dad's love but angry he's not getting it) but also his parents' situations (in 302 when he called out Rei for choosing her duty to her family but failing to recognize his duty to the family as the eldest son to Endeavor and also having limited choices, and calling out Endeavor time and time and time again). While it is true that it's not uncommon for abused children to grow up into abusive adults (Koutaro), Dabi isn't written to follow this trajectory. Even if the events of the story were different, I still don't think Touya would go and create a family to repeat the cycle since he so passionately spoke in 302 about being ignored and born into this world for nothing. As much as he is his father's son, Touya didn't go out, father a child, and raise it to beat up its grandpa, lol. Touya became Dabi instead.

#bnha #bnha asks

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seeyouafter · 1 month

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SYA Extended Notes Ch. 39-44

Or: Acceptance and healing - some thoughts on Shouto's post-war journey

Notes for "See You After" Chapter 44: August 2: Shouto's Journal - Unsent Letter

I can’t forget what happened but maybe someday I’ll be able to forgive you so that I can put all of it behind me and move on. I don’t know what that means for us or for our family, but I hope that someday I’ll be able to show you that I’m proud of who I’ve become in spite of everything you did.

I originally started typing this up to post with chapter 39 but decided to wait until after this chapter, and Shouto's unsent letter, to share my thoughts on how I imagine he and his family might begin to navigate the healing process.

In essence, I think that a post-war arc for Shouto involves him taking the time to process the things he went through and to decide for himself what he wants to do going forward.

This fic inevitably contains my personal headcanons of what Shouto's healing journey might involve after the war ends. Of course, there are as many interpretations of what "should" happen next as there are readers, but these are a few of my thoughts in relation to "See You After" so far.

Acceptance is the first step

I talked a bit about this in the extended notes for Chapters 10-11, but up until this point, I really don't think Shouto saw what Endeavor did to him as abuse. Even if he knew it on an intellectual level, he probably didn't want to accept it for various reasons. Although he did acknowledge that what his father did to his mom was abuse, when he expresses his anger toward his father, it's always framed around what he did to his mom (and later Touya).

BNHA 192: The Todoroki Family & 249: The Hellish Todoroki Family

One of those reasons probably has something to do with the way Touya revealed Endeavor's abuse of his family, specifically Shouto, very publicly and out of spite toward their father.

BNHA 291: Thanks for Going Strong

Shouto never had a say in the matter and Touya didn't do him any favors. Rather than viewing him with sympathy for being a victim, the public views him with suspicion because of his blood ties to a mass murderer and an abuser. Of course, that's not fair, but that's the cultural context of the society they're living in.

BNHA 325: The Bonds of One for All & BNHA 327: Rest

Guilt, Blame, and Responsibility

Shouto has been the one carrying the burden of his father's mistakes for his entire life, but even moreso since Touya reappeared. Unlike Touya, he blames his father completely, but I don't think Touya is entirely wrong when he says that Rei is guilty too. She's a victim, of course, and most of it was beyond her control, but she agreed to the marriage, knowing what it was. Moreover, it is a parent's responsibility to take care of their children, and she wasn't able to do that. Even though it wasn't her intention and Shouto refuses to blame her for hurting him, there's still a lot to unpack and a lot of trust that needs to be rebuilt.

BNHA 249: The Hellish Todoroki Family & BNHA 302: The wrong way to put out a fire, part 2

Natsuo and Fuyumi's guilt about not being able to do anything was realistic and understandable, but they were also children and it wasn't their responsibility to fix everything, which makes their experiences heartbreaking in a different way. There's a lot for all of them to reconcile on their own and as a family.

Rei showing up at the hospital and meeting Endeavor face to face again took a great deal of courage, and I don't think we can fault her for the things she says. Although it shouldn't be any of the children's responsibility, they do all have to deal with the fallout, which I think was the point she was trying to make here. But once again, the burden fell on Shouto to be their family's hero.

Shouto believes that he has to be strong because he's a hero. And while that's admirable, that mindset is part of the larger problem. So far in canon, we've mostly seen Shouto protecting his mom, not the other way around. And that's part of his character, his foundation as a hero - the way he had the instinct to protect when he was just a child, and his decision to take the first step after the sports festival to reach out and save her.

But it still kills me that their reunion scene in the hospital post PLF war was skipped over just so there could be a big reveal when the family went to confront Enji.

BNHA 298: Sounds of Collapse & BNHA 300: The Hellish Todoroki Family, Part 2

In this scene, Shouto had his hand on Rei's back to support her, meanwhile not once do we see him get a hug or any comforting touch from any of the people who should be there to support him. (A lot of Chapter 39 of "See You After" came from my desire for just that)

Identity and the choice to become a hero

BNHA 39: Todoroki Shouto: Origin

Shouto's fight with Izuku during the sports festival was the start of him reclaiming his identity as his own person, separate from his father, and reaffirming his desire to become a hero on his own terms. Still, the fact that he never really had the choice to try to be anything else is something to consider, especially as we see the rest of the world question the role of heroes and the overall system.

Names are important

BNHA 45: Time to pick some names (+anime ep. 26)

I really love the symbolism of Shouto's hero name. By using his real name, he's essentially refusing to separate his identity as a hero from who he is as a person, which is important because of how he makes a clear distinction between Endeavor (the hero) and Enji (the father). But something that's often lost in translation is Shouto's choice to use the phonetic spelling: ショート instead of the kanji characters: 焦凍 (meaning to burn and to freeze), which I've always interpreted as a statement of his desire to exist as an individual beyond the context of his quirks.

It was hard to convey in this fic because I'm obviously writing it in English, but I wanted to make it clear that he signed the unsent letter as ショート because of what it symbolizes.

I feel like Shouto would probably have a complicated relationship with his given name because Endeavor valued him solely for his quirk. Meanwhile, "Todoroki" is a constant reminder of his family's legacy in the aftermath of Touya's broadcast.

I like to think that even before their conversation during the long phone call at the end of chapter 39, Katsuki understood this on some level. That's why in this fic, even though he rotates through a variety of nicknames (in their earlier letters, he uses a different one each time), he rarely calls Shouto by his last name, unless he's trying to make a point (like in his letter in Chapter 11 and the phone call in Chapter 19).

That's something I leaned into when I started writing the transition to them using each others' given names back during their text conversation in Chapter 36. (Originally, I thought it was going to happen quite a bit later in the story, but writing is a funny thing and characters sometimes have minds of their own.)

#sorry this ended up being super long #i have a lot of thoughts #i usually just incorporate them into fanfic but i saved a lot of chapter references so i figured i would share #sya extended notes #sya: bridges #dancing girl writes #see you after fic

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