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buttercupshands · 17 days

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Chapter 419 Analysis or "How to make allies not pawns" a helpful guide from League of Villains (part 2)

This is now a second part of Tomura character analysis.

With chapter 419 being probably our last time seeing Tomura for a while, since we need to learn what happened with Aizawa now is time to remember that not only bad things exist it Tomura's life.

Warning of spoilers to the whole manga to the point of chapter 419! All of the warnings from My Villain Academy side of manga are applicable

So like... mentions of death, killing other people, manipulation, emotional abuse and many more!

This is Part 2 - See here for Part 1 of this depressing mess

With AFO being so sure that he knows better and actually controlled every single part of Tenko's life creating a Symbol of Fear without any redeeming qualities or even hope for saving after he destroys him. There's one thing that AFO still doesn't understand about Tomura and never did - and that's his allies, or the League of Villains that he created.

Even Kurogiri, being a Nomu who's views do not stray from what AFO thought was important didn't exactly understand what did Tomura think about his allies quick to assume that he thought of them as pawns all the was back in the Training Camp arc. With Tomura making game examples to explain the situation, he still didn't think of LoV as just pawns on a desk, like AFO does.

At the time of USJ arc there weren't many people Tomura called this, which could make you wonder how much it was just AFO's plan rather than Tomura's with him never worrying about those other villains yet getting so worked up over losing Nomu not only because he was strong enough to defend him from All-Might, but treating his defeat as something that must be avenged.

And that was long before Stain even entered the picture, the first of three people who greatly affected Tomura's view of his own motives alongside AFO's manipulation of literally everything else.

Tomura was terrified of fighting All-Might seconds before this and yet as this goes on it's becoming more noticeable - Tomura doesn't care for his own fear or worries as long as he's fighting for someone else's good. Not so different from how Izuku is ready to disregard himself for the sake of others, resulting in many injuries and being so close to dying so many times.

It never was a secret that Tomura is highly dependent on others to keep himself from losing confidence, or even will to fight, getting either too anxious to continue without anyone's reassurance.

And while AFO's "help" was mostly given only with some kind of lesson as we saw in "Tomura Shigaraki: Origin", with AFO literally sitting there, saying how Tenko is weak for not killing but showing some restrain instead suffering himself, never actually helping or comforting him. Only offering what he deemed nessesary for his own plan of making Tenko kill those thugs not caring that he's feeling sick from those hands.

But in USJ it's not AFO who's there with Tomura, it's Kurogiri, who was shown to still have some care that Shirakumo had that even Aizawa and Mic couldn't argue that it's similar to how Shirakumo couldn't just leave a kitten in the rain. No matter the responsibility that it would bring with taking a little one in.

A helpless little kitten that didn't get the help it needs from anyone else. Sounds way too familiar.

This never was a direct order from AFO other than he needs to "tend and protect" for Tomura, which can mean anything from just looking out when Tomura's sick, or protect him from any tread like someone trying to kill him.

Not helping him getting over his anxiety to fight or helping him and guiding him to do better as a leader of the League calming him if it got out of control. Which is somewhat opposite to the way AFO deals with Decay and Tomura's temper - letting him destroy anything even the hands that he gave him, just offering new ones when he succeedes and never really caring for his pawns, he can always get new ones.

And surely not asking if Tomura's well the first thing while talking to Heroes.

Which then leads us back to how Tomura never viewed anyone that he chose as pawns calling them his allies, with the word '仲間' which can even be translated as friends in needed context, but usually used as comrade or ally when Tomura says it. And the same thing is usually translated as "friend" when used by Twice.

In any case Tomura never once doubted his allies since he saw them as reliable, even if his first meeting with Toga and Dabi went so wrong that Kurogiri had to stop them from killing each other.

Up to the point of Training Camp AFO describes as him teaching Tomura to be independent which was at that point too far from the truth than he thought. If Tomura begging for AFO to leave with them is any indicator he actually was even less independent after All-Might almost caught them, making him doubt his own worth as a leader. Even if AFO's defeat finally let him think and wonder about himself and his past.

AFO believed that Tomura just knowing how to recruit people would suddenly make him great at using those new "pawns" which was proven wrong by Overhaul no so long after that. Showing how Tomura believed the same thing AFO did as well, fully trusting his judgement of anything including himself, all the while parroting what AFO says without fully understanding what it means.

Only after losing both Magne and Mr. Compress arm does Tomura slowly start making progress in becoming someone more than AFO tells him to do. Even if as we see in part 1 it used Decay as the ground to make it stable since he believed it was his quirk. And yet.

Even if Tomura didn't simply instruct his allies how to choose who to recruit, he never blamed them for it. On the opposite, when Twice was hard on himself after bringing Overhaul to them Tomura just looked at them for the first time without a hand on his face, or even on himself at all, showing how he trusts them as much as he would trust himself and believes that they can do it.

Taking off hands of his family would mean not relying on the conflicting feelings that they bring into the picture, something AFO would very much dissaprove, since he was now like an equal to everyone in LoV instead of being above them. He

And with this instead of making them blindly trust his decisions and following him from fear or adoration like people had been following AFO or Overhaul, he instead was an equal to them both in failure and victory that wasn't even all that guaranteed yet.

Each one of them had their own somewhat selfish goal that just seemed like they were just using each other without any worry being each other's pawns. Or maybe that's just how AFO would see them.

Yet it doesn't explain why did Toga care for Twice's trauma response of not having his mask on, since he already did his part and all that they both needed to do was done. But LoV was never about following orders or giving them, expecting for the pawns to follow without question. It was about a leader of the group that would stand up for his allies while allowing them full freedom, except when they needed to also accept that something is needed to be done for their own sake.

Like following Overhaul for a while all for cutting off his hands leaving him with nothing. Did that sound like something reasonable to do? No! They literally lost their chance at having sushi instead of just living at some abadoned building all the while occasionally searching for money or food, stealing and killing just to survive all while Tomura was just... waiting.

Nothing was really stable at the start of what we call My Villain Academia and yet no one from the LoV left while their state was... bad at the very least. No matter how AFO was teaching Tomura he was still left mostly waiting for something to happen rather than doing something to change the situation himself.

Sure, Tomura now was a famous leader of League of Villains that suddenly needed to be stopped rather that underestimated like before. But that was in the future, now LoV was laying low on funds and slowly Tomura showing his face became the norm, with him usually never wearing hands around LoV.

And with Tomura becoming more and more comfortable around LoV, the LoV itself was becoming more like a place that had one core value that accepted anything else added without anyone wondering about the past of others, like Compress said. Just some selfish people, who still followed their own needs first.

And yet somehow Toga, who joined just because she loved Stain and disliked how life was too hard found her place in the LoV alongside Twice who just needed to be trusted and trust in return. If Tomura only followed what AFO deemed to be the best way to lead no one would actually feel like they're accepted in the LoV as much as they were.

Goal or no goal Tomura succeeded even without having the whole world at the palm of his hands by just never pressing anyone to actually follow him - if they wanted to they could've just left here and there, but since they chose to follow he did what he thought was the obvious best - let his allies do what they wanted.

Which was okay for someone like Toga or Dabi who were either already comfortable by just being allowed to be themselves or being free to plan their own things for their own goals.

But not exactly that for Spinner. Who was instead literally searching for someone to show him what to do, not so different from Tomura, who still only followed whatever 'his Sensei' deemed worthy for him to look into, like letting Kurogiri go find unknown "power" that AFO left along with contact with Doctor.

And while Spinner was not fine with still being hollow even while following Tomura pretending that it's the same thing as following Stain... all it took for him to look differently at how exactly was Tomura thinking was the last real "barrier" that there was - Tomura basically spilling his whole backstory and motivations mostly for LoV to listen to, since Doctor was just testing Tomura's will all according to AFO's plan.

And after that it didn't took too long for Spinner to now follow Tomura, even if it was still not the time to really see the 'warped horizon that was waiting for them'. And yet in times where Tomura still showed some doubt over his decisions - that one old trait of his showing up like it was always at the back of his head not so different from USJ, only thing changing that Tomura got better and better at not letting his emotions control him so easily.

Since the price of that would literally be lifes of his allies.

And neither that or using their emotions to his own benefit was ever in his plans, contrast to AFO manipulating Tomura to do just that. Letting his emotions consume him completely just for his own goal and for his own sake. But as a person who was so familiar with this Tomura still was adamant at NOT allowing something like this to happen to his friends allies.

Effectively creating a bond between all six of them, including Toya that in the end kept them together until the very final arc, with Spinner keeping what Tomura would've thought and with him waking up and calling Machia to get LoV first and foremost Spinner did understand their's leader wishes, as well as Twice's who literally died for his friends.

With all that happening in the War arc the moment AFO returned with both being in control of Tomura's body and just abadoned anything that Tomura would care for like leaving Mr. Compress and Machia behind just to punish him for not getting OFA or not even caring to show any actual respect for Tomura's wishes. Instead showing how little he actually cared for anything but his own good.

But while AFO made so many pawns that he could change like gloves at any given moment, threating them and manipulating them with his power and quirks, Tomura only had 6 allies who stayed after AFO was caught and who were willing to die just to live the life they wanted.

And AFO couldn't give them that.

Even if Decay isn't Tenko's quirk and even if he has so much guilt for killing without it being a little bit justified by it...

LoV still followed him as a person who allowed them to live as they please and so what they want, not some all-powerfull overlord but an ally and a leader who had his flaws and fallings.

#bnha #shigaraki tomura #tenko shimura #league of villains #bnha manga spoilers #bnha analysis #character analysis #character study #kurogiri #toga himiko #twice #dabi #spinner #mr compress #and All For One can go to hell I won't tag him again #with the Kurogiri part you may notice how I just want to see Kurogiri actually helping Tomura #it's either him or mr. compress now #and yeah the fact that both Twice and Himiko died remembering LoV was painful #AFO calling Tenko weak all the while he himself didn't make any lasting good empression like that on anyone #while Tenko just was like 'yeah my friends need something they'll get it'#insert that one page where he literally just got them sushi first thing after becoming a new MLA commander #how dares AFO call Tenko pitiful if he literally did his best with what he had #all the while AFO just made his life insufferable for him to be angry and hateful #and yes I didn't call them family or friends for the most part since the canon INSISTS that Tomura is saying allies #which is a really neutral way to say friends imo #I'm still thinking about a Tangled crossover with LoV like Tomura literally got his only taste of freedom with LoV by his side #bnha 419 #my villain academia #five years later and it's still the best arc of MHA #an honestly it's more of a ch 418 analysis

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thelaughingpanda · 11 months

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Seward (May 25th)

(Mem., under what circumstances would I not avoid the pit of hell?)

Jonathan (October 3rd)

To one thing I have made up my mind: if we find out that Mina must be a vampire in the end, then she shall not go into that unknown and terrible land alone.

#dracula daily #dracula daily spoilers #dracula #may 25th #october 3rd #things i only just noticed on this go around #the FORESHADOWING #we know EXACTLY under what circumstances Jonathan would not avoid the pit of hell for #for MINA

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unforth · 7 months

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I. Hurt.

And I was hurting anyway, I'm pretty down this morning, but this hurt came from an outside source, and affected me in a way I'd honestly not have expected.

See, we bought Nimona last week. After seeing the movie, my kids wanted to read it. And I ended up reading ahead, and I just finished it.

Bonus content at the end, it said, and I was like, oh, an epilogue to the epilogue maybe? That'd be nice. I don't love bittersweet endings, I'd rather...

...no, it's not the conclusion.

It's CHRISTMAS.

In a book that'd had no religion that I noticed up to that point, BOTH bonus extras...were Christmas.

Ya know, usually it doesn't bother me. Usually I just suck it up. I think it helps that I was raised around mostly Jews and people who, if Christian, it didn't matter much to them. I'm from the Upper West Side of Manhattan, the descendent of Lower East Side immigrants, and while the world outside was brutal - my grandfather was a World War 2 veteran and among the soldiers who liberated Dachau, I can't remember a time when I didn't know that most people would look the other way if people like me were slaughtered wholesale - my bubble was safe, we were accepted, we were insiders.

I honestly can't think of another time I've interacted with a piece of media and felt so immediately, instantly knocked across the face by OUTSIDER as I just did when I excitedly turned the page to see what these fun extra bonuses were...and it was fucking Christmas.

I didn't even read them.

I'm honestly. So disappointed.

I don't have a thick armor for this kind of hurt. I'm Jewish, and as an adult living outside my old UWS bubble, that's often meant I've felt like an outlier, but I've hardly ever had this feeling where I was welcome to something only to be suddenly, violently shoved out the door.

And I've heard nothing, n.o.t.h.i.n.g. but praise for this book. And on another day, it might not have bothered me. I've never really felt like I had to fight to be seen, especially since I'm tremendously secular. I mean, I've celebrated Christmas my entire life, for starters.

But why. Why was this fantasy setting suddenly Christian? Why was this the touted extra content? Why is THIS special, when the areligious world established to that point was apparently not special enough?

I can't say yet if this ruined the story for me. It's far too soon. But I'm *intensely*, viscerally let down, and...I hurt.

Christians...maybe stop doing this shit.

#unforth rambles #im not sure how to tag this #i dont want to tag fandom since its kinda anti #and i dont want to tag antisemitism cause its not really #and i dont want to tag microaggressions cause thatll just show my privilege that ive been lucky enough to not have this feeling more often #but seriously WHAT THE FUCK #im genuinely considering rereading just so i can see if it was always christian and i just missed it until then #because its so fucking ubiquitous that it slides right off #but i dont think it was!!!#WHYS IT GOTTA BE CHRISTIAN WHAT THE HELL #and why have i never heard this mentioned surely im not the only person to notice this #maybe it was less jarring for people who rwad along with the webcomic #since these were extras released along thw qay #not shoved in the back of the book like in the print edition #i dont fucking know #i just know i hate it #this special fun thing could have been anything #and instead it was for one specific segment of the audience #and thats honestly so unnecessary and kinda yicky #dont you guys every get tired of making everything about your fucking dumb holidays you stole from other cultures #give me back passover i demand you turn over easter as a reparation

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alexkablob · 5 months

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Other favorite bits from the Dorley reread: Lorna's Paranormal Investigator Arc™

#tfw you're the only normal trans girl in a story about a forcefem kidnapping ring #and you're dating your ''cis'' girlfriend who gets you hormones ''from the internet''#and slowly noticing how there's things she's not telling you and how her and her friend group are all weird about the same things #and then one day your girlfriend's equally cis friend is tired and distracted and asks your girlfriend if she can use some of her ''pills''#and they both briefly freeze and then awkwardly smooth the interaction over but you KNOW #your whole social circle is trans people you go to trans rights rallies on the regular you KNOW that social interaction #you know this cis girl just asked your cis girlfriend if she could borrow some of her estrogen and what the FUCK #and all the little things are adding up and you start digging and they're all connected to this one dorm on campus--#and IS MY GIRLFRIEND IN A CULT???#WHAT IS HAPPENING #you're infiltrating this incredibly foreboding institution and all these girls are smiling too evenly at you and trying to steer you away #and IS THIS THE STEPFORD WIVES??? ARE THEY GOING TO HUMAN SACRIFICE ME??? WHAT IS GOING ON #because that's what Dorley is like looking in from the outside #and then all the while you see from the other PoVs what she's up against:#just the stupidest most neurotic group of codependent trans girls who are flailing rapidly in a comedy of errors #trying to figure out how to tell you the truth without you freaking out #or without it sounding stupid as hell #they're so fucking stupid Lorna I cannot emphasize enough what a pack of idiots these girls are it is NOT a slick operation #dorleyposting

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raayllum · 11 months

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nothing in dragon prince will ever be more plot convenience to me than some of the shit in S1-S2 (and i say this with well humoured love) given the fact that 1) there were no servants given the job of actually making sure the two princes/heirs to the throne left the castle and made it to the banther lodge safely in season one, 2) amaya having little to no reaction to harrow’s death in the same episode viren asserts “you knew him as well as i did,” 3) viren inexplicably transporting the bright glowing egg back to katolis without harrow noticing (altho i HC he took stuff from lain and tiadrin for it, like hair) and the huge ass mirror, and 4) claudia and soren travelling on foot (bc of corvus) in spite of having horses and the dragang, who travelled by flight and by boat for days, ending up in the town at the dragon one (1) day apart from each other. s3 and s4 Wishes

#tdp #ppl who are like 's4 is too convenient' and it's like. sometimes shit just Has to happen #the fact u only notice it when a season doesn't do precisely what u want doesn't make u right #mine #text post #fandom nonsense #to be clear: i don't think these are Issues #story convenience is story convenience #but only having issues with certain things is inconsistent & honestly transparent as hell

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samarecharm · 4 months

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Playing ssbu; i really do love the direction they went for akiras entire moveset. His melees are sharp and aggressive, while his weapon and spell moves are nice and fluid. Really love how Legs he is; he is a gazelle prancing on the stage kicking everything in sight. Also love his midair neutral B; why is he spinning out of control??? And why is it so effective ? Every little detail they added to make the moves more ‘realistic’ really adds to his character 😊

#chattin #and he is SO flashy in this game lmao its a real treat #its hard to see what im doing in strikers so i cant really compare the movesets #but i did notice that the gun/special in strikers is just as flashy as his smash counterpart #following along w his moves is just me going weeeeeweeeeeeeheeheeweeeeeee #other thoughts; eiga and eiga adjacent moves are so explosive and rough in the main game #but in smash its like a little flick of the wrist ; thats a cute little change #i distinctly remember playing smash and loving it sm bc it was like a more realistic interpretation of the moves in the main game #so i am DEFINITELY enjoying strikers; i live for this shit lol #i think the only things i wanted to change for his moveset was to make his guns fire like fox’s #make the shots shoot out w a slightly faster rate of fire and make them do less damage without interrupting enemies #i feel like it fits the fast pace of his moveset more #and i know the best case scenario was getting the all out attack for his ult #(and its CUTE!! like heres akira and his ult; his FRIENDS!!)#but an ult w arsene or satanael wouldve been so rad #otherwise his moveset is perfect #he is so fast and aggressive and he is so good at applying pressure #watch some tourneys w him; ppl who main him are annoying as hell (usually) but u never get hear these guys talk during matches anyway #akira is like. mid. so hes never in grand tourneys. but hes so fun to play and watch

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plulp · 8 months

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OK everybunny. im absolutely 100% no doubt about it confirmed going to finish all these by tomorrow. please clap.

#germaphone #got only 4 more left to do!!!!!!!!!!! :)#i love seeing all of your pcs its so fun #the things ive noticed are 1. SO much pink and 2. SO much freckles #but its fun its cute i totally get it #sigh. ill have to think about what mine should look like #id much rather just talk about goat hell than anything else really

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creature-once-removed · 1 year

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Rereading Nona and when Palamedes asks her if the kids are really named like that she says that's how she hears it.

Anyway now I'm torn between desperately wanting to find out what these kids are actually named, and blatantly ignoring Nona's universal speech thing because I freaking love the naming convention of slapping a half-sentence on a person and calling them that.

#nona the ninth #the locked tomb #tlt #nona the ninth spoilers #I feel incredibly slow for only just noticing this #they could really have names like that. just look at wake.#do the rest of boe actually have names like that or is that the nona filter again?#unreliable narration has layers with these books what the hell #catch me searching through baby name forums for 'Born in the morning'#tlt spoilers #also for myself #dnd inspiration

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hitsuyou-fukaketsu · 1 year

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oohhh royal knight in training subaru and prince hokke oohhghh

#they have been in my mind can you guess #but like listen #mr akehoshi died in a war led by seiya(king) 10 years ago and now subaru is following the steps of his father #so seiya has a soft spot for him although subaru hates the monarchy for that and onlydoes that bc its the best high income job he can do to #support his mother #also hokke just despises his monarchy duties and one day he is going out of the castle by himself and subaru is like what is this idiot doin #and subaru is like 'Hey you dumbass! where are you going on your own?' and hokke is like 'dont you know who i am? learn some manners before #speaking to me!!' and subaru is like 'of course i know who you are! you are stealing my horse where the hell are you going you clown of a #prince!!!!!!#and hokke ignores him but he actually doesnt know what he is doing so subaru just runs behind him #and after a while hokke gives up and explains that he doesn't want to be a prince so he decided to escape and subaru is like ?? this guy??#and concludes it must be a rebellious phase because he was borned with a silver spoon and just wants to create problems for himself #so he tells him that the life outside the palace is horrible and hokke should appreaciate his life more. everyone would want to be the princ #hokke thinks for a moment and concludes that no. subaru is wrong. and subaru is starting to get annoyed so he sends hokke to the palace #(but in their argument he acutally stole some jewelry of hokke so he sells those to help shinonon the poor guy selling milk and newspaper #and the next day hokke goes to him like 'you stole from me give them back' and subaru is like 'i thought you wouldnt notice. you dont need #them anyway'#and they start arguing again.#chiaki (subaru's knight trainer) sees them and later says to subaru that they seem close #and subaru is like 'no we dont!! he is a selfish jerk who only thinks of himself!' and chiaki thinks he is the only person subaru has gotten #close to #bc hokke doesn't like interacting with guards or maids or anything that has to do with the castle either #so chiaki is like me thinks #so they keep doing sbhk shenanigans and they mutually warm up to each other #at one point hokke brings jewels to subaru personally so he can sell them in the city and sometimes subaru bri #subaru brings hokke to the city in some of their getaways. normal citicens dont know he is the prince just some noble bc of his clothes and #good manners. which subaru doesnt have.#at some point hokke is impressed by subaru's knowledge and he confesses that his father used to steal books from the royal library and then #thought him and his mother and it makes hokke think that they are quite similar #mr hidaka seiya is pretty glad hokke is getting along with subaru since he appreciated mr akehoshi a lot

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novelconcepts · 4 months

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i don't make resolutions, but if i did

it would be to finish this fic

(and to be kind to myself for however long it takes to actually do so)

#i'm finishing it if it kills me #i know i've been writing this makeout scene for 3 weeks but baby that can't last forever #if we want to get deep and dark and serious for a second i do think a lot of my struggles to write lately have to do with engagement #and how incredibly low engagement has been on the last few things i've written #which like. is what it is. i'm not entitled to anybody's time or comments or kudos.#but when you write stuff you're proud of and it feels like it's barely getting read it's hard to keep momentum.#this isn't intended as a woe is me or whatever it's just kind of like. there. hovering.#happens enough times you start to wonder if it's you. am i just writing for the wrong fandom/ship?#(too bad if so. they're in my bones i'm writing for them and no one can stop me.)#but yeah. if you ever wonder if authors do care or notice about hits. comments. kudos. buddy i am here to tell you #not only do we care and FLOURISH we also notice when those things drop off and readers vanish #and it is a giant bummer. and sometimes makes us wildly paranoid about why that might have happened.#so if you liked a fic today--not even one of mine. just. anybody's. share it. comment on it.#kudos at the VERY least (cuz frankly kudos is there to be an 'i got to the end and this was nice' feature.#so when you get 500 hits and only like 30 kudos? it feels like 470 of those people hated your work)#anyway. that got out of hand. lil' too raw lil' too honest. happens when you let yourself ramble at 11:30 instead of sleeping #to sum: let your local fic writer know if they've made you happy #and as we go into 2024 i am swearing to myself that this fic (and probably several others) are getting finished #come hell. high water. or dishearteningly low engagement numbers.#(and then maybe we...actually work on something original. cuz why not. new year same old me but i'll do my best.)

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aecholapis · 6 months

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Fire alarm -_-

#at least one of our neighbors triggers it every other week #it makes us wonder what the hell they're doing in their flat to activate the smoke detectors which are really not that sensitive #two weeks ago it had been someone else's fault though and they sent an apology in our group chat #however it is noticeable that only about half of the tenants actually gather outside until the fire brigade arrives #in a real emergency I fear that many won't even bother to leave their home thinking it's just another burnt lunch or something

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goldiipond · 6 months

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ohh so ray uses his scarf to hide his id number. ok well what if i hurt someone

#skye's ramblings #going through the artbook again for icon reasons how the hell did i not notice this bit about ray's scarf. demizu this fucking breaks me #just. ggooouhghg agh. gah. the fuact that his scarf covering his id is intentional. whaat the fuuuuuuck!!! what the fuck!!#it makes sense though yknow. with ray using the moments before his suicide attempt to loudly declare his humanity #with ray constantly being dehumanized and hating himself for several years at gracefield #with ray still struggling to accept himself after that #for him to be the only kid who consciously chooses to cover the id number used to dehumanize them. it fuckin hits #wjatever im normal im soo fucking normal. don't fucking talk to m #and btw he also never takes the blue scarf off because he is autistic. hope this helps

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withasideofshakespeare · 2 months

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Lennox’s Ambiguous Loyalties

I CAN’T GET THIS OUT OF MY HEAD so here’s a post about it! (Special thanks to the Hamlet Discord Server folks for sticking with me on this one!)

WHAT THE HELL IS LENNOX’S DEAL IN MACBETH?!

I remember vividly that the first time I read this play, one of our study questions was “what do Ross and Lennox respectively represent as characters?” and that it was the only question I couldn’t quite answer.

Ross seems fairly easy to understand. He’s sort of a Horatio-figure, a “narrator” in a play that isn’t his (to a lesser extent than Horatio, of course. No one beats Horatio in that regard.) He witnesses most of the play’s major events and comments on them (and it makes him fascinating as well as really sad). His loyalties seem to lie clearly on the side of goodness and justice. He’s relatively quick to turn on Macbeth once he realizes that he is guilty and seems to spearhead the rebel cause.

Lennox is an enigma in comparison! It’s entirely unclear where his loyalties lie and what his motives are. Most people (including my English teacher who wrote that study question) seem to view him as a foil to Ross—someone who stays loyal to Macbeth rather than rebelling, but I think it’s much more complex than that.

The only way I can think to explain this is to go through his appearances in order and try to glean what exactly his deal is and where his loyalties lie throughout the play.

1. Act 1 Scene 2

Lennox appears to announce Ross’ arrival. He notes the Ross looks in haste (which he probably does. When is he not in haste to deliver news to someone?)

This is his only line in the scene and it doesn’t tell us much about him. All we get from this is that he seems interested in whatever it is Ross has to say.

(2. Act 1 Scene 4)

Lennox doesn’t even speak in this scene, but his presence means that he overhears Malcolm’s haunting description of the execution of Cawdor (BUT GIVEN HIS LATER ACTIONS, IT MUST NOT STICK WITH HIM? He becomes a traitor in MULTIPLE DIRECTIONS!)

(3. Act 1 Scene 6)

Again, he says nothing but is among the party arriving at Inverness with Duncan.

4. Act 2 Scene 3

This is the first of Lennox’s significant appearances. He’s with Macduff when they’re harassed by the Porter but says nothing to him. His first line in this scene is in greeting to Macbeth. He proceeds to give a very Ross-like little speech regarding the strange occurrences of the night. I don’t read this as him being actively suspicious of Macbeth—I think it’s too early for suspicions. At this point, Macduff hasn’t even returned to report the murder. It seems Lennox is reporting on the facts of the night, maybe slightly shaken by what he saw (and presumably sleep-deprived like everybody in this scene). He tells us that he is young (“my young remembrance”), seems horrified when Macduff reports on the murder of Duncan, and is quick to accuse the guardsmen who Macbeth framed. He notes that they “stared and were distracted,” but seems to assume that their behavior was a result of their guilty consciences and not an altered state that would’ve left them unable to commit the crime.

What I take from this is that at this point, Lennox is fairly neutral. He’s quicker to blame the guards than most of the other Thanes (especially Macduff, of course), but I wouldn’t chalk that up to an active loyalty to Macbeth just yet. The fact that he doesn’t speak when Macbeth says he killed the guards in a fury is interesting, but I assume that’s because Macduff is easily doing ALL of the talking at that point (and perhaps because Lennox doesn’t want to publicly quarrel with the person whose house he’s staying in at the moment?)

(5. Act 3 Scene 1)

Lennox is present along with the other Thanes as Macbeth speaks to Banquo and begins his anti-Malcolm & Donalbain propaganda campaign (“bloody cousins”). Lennox seems to notice this language in particular because he will echo it later.

6. Act 3 Scene 4

Lennox attends the disaster banquet and is utterly confused by Macbeth’s behavior along with everyone else. He seems unsettled but unlike Ross, he seems to figure out when it’s time to stop asking questions and simply wishes Macbeth better health in the future.

I’ve always viewed this scene as a turning point for Ross in which he realizes that Macbeth is either personally behind the murder of Duncan or played some hand in it and follows his conscience by shifting his loyalties. Lennox seems to go a different direction. I’m not sure how, having attended the banquet, he could possibly be unaware of Macbeth’s suspiciousness or why he’d choose to overlook it in the long run. More on this later.

7. Act 3 Scene 6

THIS IS THE SCENE THAT DRIVES ME NUTS. I do not understand what is going on here or why (or if these lines are even supposed to be Lennox’s! For our purposes, I’m going to assume they are.)

Lennox enters mid-way through a conversation with an unnamed lord. He seems to be choosing his words carefully, saying far more between his lines than on them. He uses Macbeth’s language of propaganda to an exaggerated extent, accusing Fleance of murdering Banquo and Malcolm and Donalbain of killing Duncan.

Initially, he plausibly believes what he’s saying and has given in to the propaganda but it quickly becomes apparent that this is not the case. He gives a quick and ambiguous line about Fleance, Malc, and Don that seems to imply he’s glad Macbeth doesn’t have them in his grasps:

And I do think

That had he Duncan's sons under his key

(As, an 't please heaven, he shall not) they should find

What 'twere to kill a father. So should Fleance.

But peace.

Perhaps this means “he doesn’t have them because that’s not God’s plan,” but I read it as something more like “and, pray God, he never will have them.” If this is the case, everything he’s said previously is a sarcastic exaggeration and not an actual reflection of his beliefs.

He goes on to question the lord about Macduff’s whereabouts specifically, seemingly out of concern for a friend(?). It is implied that Macbeth already knows this information (WHICH IS WEIRD! But I won’t get ahead of myself!)

Lennox leaves us with his hopes that Macduff will be smart and stay far from Scotland for his own safety and wishes that an angel deliver to Malcolm Macduff’s report before he even arrives to haste them to free Scotland from Macbeth’s grasp.

As of this scene, Lennox seems to be acting just like Ross (if not even more extremely against Macbeth). He calls Macbeth “a hand accursed” and remarks that Scotland is suffering. It seems like he’s on the rebels’ side! But THEN THE NEXT SCENE HAPPENS AND TURNS THIS ON ITS HEAD???

8. Act 4 Scene 1

After Macbeth meets with the witches again, Lennox appears, apparently not heeding his own advice to Macduff about staying far from the Scottish court. He’s confused by Macbeth’s inquiries about the witches (who he either didn’t see or pretends not to have seen? Normally, I’d lean towards the former but given his history, WHO THE HELL KNOWS?!)

And THEN! He straight-up tells Macbeth that Macduff has fled to England which SEEMS TO SURPRISE HIM despite the fact that we learned in the last scene that learning of Macduff’s flight put him into a rage! And to further confuse matters, Lennox lies about the circumstances of his discovery of this information saying “'Tis two or three, my lord, that bring you word / Macduff is fled to England.” Assuming he’s talking about the previous scene (and what else would he be talking about unless there is a scene missing?), this is blatantly untrue! One guy came by and Lennox had a weirdly manipulative discussion with him in order to get Macduff’s location out of him. There were not “two or three” people and the one guy who did come certainly didn’t seem to be there to tell Macbeth (who he personally called a tyrant) about the whereabouts of his enemies.

Either this is a major editorial error or Lennox is playing some very weird game of shifty loyalties. The former interpretation may well be true given this play’s oddities (it’s strangely short and has some obvious non-Shakespeare additions like the Hecate/witch song scene which was added (probably) by Middleton), but that’s not very fun, so let’s go with the latter.

I think the best way to call everything we’ve learned in these scenes canon AND not directly contradictory is to say that what Macbeth was initially angry about was Malcolm’s flight to England, not Macduff’s. There is really no way to reconcile the idea that Macbeth has sent for Macduff to return from England with the idea that he is just finding out about his flight in the next scene. The only way I can make sense of this is that these scenes have been reversed or otherwise edited (perhaps 3.6’s Lennox is meant to be Ross, perhaps there is text missing that changes the meaning… WHO KNOWS.) but if we’re going to call it canon, I guess the best thing we can do to make this series of events make any sense without completely changing every line spoken is to say that Macbeth knows that Malcolm has fled to England and is upset and that he knows that Macduff did not attend the banquet and therefore sent to him to return, to which Macduff sent back the 1060 equivalent of “fuck off” and ran off to England.

(PLEASE tell me if I’m missing something here. This is driving me UP THE WALL and it seems nobody else has questioned it??)

Anyway, with this messy attempt to make the given canon make any sense, the implication is then that Lennox manipulated Unnamed Lord into giving him the information he wanted about Macduff’s whereabouts by pretending to be on the side of the rebels. He then double-crosses them by informing Macbeth and doesn’t argue in the slightest when Macbeth declares (in what is shockingly not an aside, at least in my text) that he’s going to murder Macduff’s entire family. Maybe he’s afraid to speak up, maybe this is where he changes his mind about Macbeth… but if that’s the case, why would hearing Macbeth’s propaganda—which he seems to know is wrong per the last scene—not be enough for him? Why can he recognize that Macbeth is a tyrant but only while trying to squeeze information out of someone? What does he want? I think the only reasonable explanation (beyond “this text is corrupt”) is that Lennox wants power and sides with whoever seems to be winning at the moment—and at this point, that’s Macbeth.

9. Act 5 Scene 2

To make everything a little extra confusing, the next time Lennox appears, he has suddenly joined the rebel army and seems to have a position of rank among them (he has a “file / Of all the gentry” in Malcolm’s army SOMEHOW—something that no one else seems to have).

WHY? WHAT IS HAPPENING? I AM LOSING MY MIND!

The only way I can think to explain this is that EITHER hearing Macbeth declare his plans to murder a woman and her children or realizing that Malcolm has become the most likely victor in the battle caused him to switch sides. That, or he was pretending to be on Macbeth’s side and therefore double-crossing Macbeth by pretending to double-cross the rebels (but if that was the case, why give him accurate intelligence?!)

With how incredibly wishy-washy Lennox’s loyalties (and, honestly, morals) have been up to this point, I think I interpret his joining of the rebel cause as a risk/gains assessment in which he decided he’s more likely to come out on top if he sides with Malcolm. Maybe my view is overly cynical, but I think Lennox is a character who is motivated by ambition just like Macbeth and will side with whoever seems to have power in the moment. He knows how to use rhetoric to his advantage and absolutely does so, regardless of morality.

10. (Later scenes in Act 5)

Depending on the editor, sometimes Lennox silently appears with the other Thanes in various scenes in act 5, but Folger does not include him, so I won’t cover this. It isn’t very important other than to confirm he survives the battle, which seems reasonably safe to assume either way.

…

Conclusions:

Overall, I’m not sure I answered any of my questions. I’m curious to see what others think about the 3.6/4.1 inconsistencies—is it an editorial error? Have I completely missed something obvious that makes it consistent somehow?

If I had to say what I think Lennox’s deal is at this point, I’d say he’s an ambitious young Thane who takes the side of the powerful for his own advancement but is shaken by Macbeth’s brutality which may turn him prematurely to the side of the rebels before their victory is quite secured.

If we are meant to take this scene ordering and allocation of lines as canon, I don’t think Lennox is faking his loyalty to Macbeth—why would he give up seemingly valuable information and put Macduff’s entire household in danger if that were the case? I think he is loyal, probably for his own sake (he seems to know that Macbeth is dangerous and disregards it), but doesn’t realize just how far Macbeth is willing to go for power. I imagine his role in the murders of Macduff’s family upsets him deeply and perhaps causes him to turn his back on Macbeth and join the rebels by act 5. He’s young, naive, and ambitious, clever with his use of rhetoric (see: 3.6 manipulation tactics), but inexperienced, leading him to underestimate Macbeth and try to justify his own loyalty by pretending he doesn’t suspect that Macbeth played a hand in Duncan and Banquo’s murders.

Aaaaand I wrote a whole fanfiction about this if you’d like a narrative version rather than this analytic one! Here’s a link: https://archiveofourown.org/works/54264247

#shakespeare #macbeth #Lennox (Macbeth)#FUCK what is it with this play and causing me to stay up until 3:00 AM writing about it?!#if somebody has an essay on what the hell is happening between 3.6 and 4.1 #do send it my way #I can’t imagine I’m the first person to notice how weird those scenes are #I’ll have to check jstor in the morning…#was this an excuse to advertise my fanfiction?#…maybe #nothing like writing an essay at 3:00 AM only to drop your ao3 at the end #can you tell I just reread this play?#god Macbeth is so good #not the guy #but that’s kinda the whole point #I hope I’ve convinced you to join team Lennox is fucked up

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