#but i think that's a much further stretch than my interpretation. anyways i've rambled more than enough.

[heraldofzaun]

This is my “Viktor has never been a stereotypical evil villain, you guys are just mean” post.

Hi. Well. That says it all, really, but I guess I should elaborate. I think that Viktor has always been a victim of society [cue Joker meme], it’s just that what society has shifted over the course of his lore update.

With new lore, it’s very clearly Piltover casting him out for his (in my opinion, pretty unethical from the get-go) ideas on free will/worker safety/etc. and that subsequently making him worse. But with his previous lore - what I run off of on this blog - I’ve seen a lot of commentary about how he’s always just been “evil”, or that his motivations weren’t defined, etc. And while I can agree that his old lore certainly has less of a word count (5x less, actually) and doesn’t make his motives crystal-clear, it’s just not true that his original incarnation was just a villainous scientist. (Nor is it true that he was perceived as one by his old fans!) It takes a little bit of looking at Blitzcrank’s lore, and the Journal of Justice (hey, remember that?) to see, but it’s there... So, here goes. I’m sorry for how long this ended up being (2k words!) - it ended up touching on a lot more than just Viktor.

Viktor’s always been stolen from. (Except for Blitzcrank’s newest lores, which contradict Viktor’s new lore, which... That’s a topic for another time.) It’s always been Professor Stanwick Pididly (now Professor Stanwick) who’s done the stealing - originally, he was a professor at Zaun’s “prestigious College of Techmaturgy”. In new lore, he’s a professor at an unnamed academy in Piltover. I think the best way to track the new/old changes is bullet-points, rather than writing this all out. Tumblr doesn’t allow T-charts, sadly.

Professor Pididly in old lore:

Zaunite professor.

Stole Blitzcrank (well, the accolades for developing Blitz’s sentience) from Viktor and Viktor’s doctoral team. (While this is headcanon, I’ve always assumed that Stanwick was Viktor’s (and Viktor’s team’s) doctoral advisor. I can’t quite imagine how else he’d pull off stealing a group project like that.) Viktor subsequently withdrew from the college and “barricaded himself in his private laboratory”. (Which is his house in my personal take, because really - what sort of doctoral student can afford a lab?)

Blitzcrank’s case reached Zaun’s legal system, resulting in a “legal maelstrom” (Blitz’s original lore) that ended with Stanwick presumably being legally declared Blitzcrank’s creator.

Blitzcrank’s lore states that “most now know the truth” in regards to who his creator is. This is important for later, so stick that in your back pocket.

Pididly is referred to as “Professor Pididly” in JoJ issues 3, 18, and 23, which are given the dates of August of 20CLE, March of 21 CLE, and June of 21 CLE.

Side note: According to Orianna’s judgment, which is dated May of 21 CLE - stay with me here, it’ll make sense - Blitzcrank entered the League “years before”. As League at this time was mostly running in time with the real world, this makes sense - Blitzcrank was a 2009 champion and Orianna was released in 2011. Judgments seem to be dated to a few days before a champion’s release, in order to tie with the lore - one had to be “Judged” before made a champion... but I’m rambling. Anyways, years before, back pocket.

Is referred to as “Chairman Pididly” in JoJ issue 27, dated August of 21 CLE. “Chairman” seems to be a title given to those in political power in Zaun. Another example is Chairman Magnus Dunderson, Zaun’s “Chief Executive” (issue 5). (I could’ve sworn that there is canonically a “Board of Executives” in old lore Zaun, but scrubbing through the JoJ on the wiki hasn’t turned it up - just Blitzcrank’s lore mentioning the “Council of Zaun”. Maybe it was fanon? Anyways.) Back pocket!

Also stole some work from Viktor in order to revive Urgot. Urgot’s revival was reported on in issue 3 of the JoJ, and the confirmation that it was from Viktor’s work is in Viktor’s original lore.

Professor Stanwick (Pididly? I feel like they ditched his last name because it was “too silly”, also because Stanwick sounds British-adjacent anyways and that’s Piltover’s “thing” - but anyways) in new lore:

Piltovian professor.

Stole Blitzcrank from Viktor alone, who made the robot to help clean up a specific chemical spill. Viktor went to Zaun for a few weeks and came back to find that Stanwick had “held a symposium on Blitzcrank and presented Viktor's research as his own”. Viktor subsequently continued on his studies, culminating with him later being expelled for “violating basic human dignity”. Viktor returns to a laboratory that he had in Zaun.

Blitzcrank’s case is solely a university matter. Viktor petitions Jayce to help support his claim, but Jayce is Jayce and doesn’t help out. The “matter [is] decided in Professor Stanwick’s favor”.

Blitzcrank’s lore doesn’t really say anything about if people know that Viktor made him (them, technically, but Riot doesn’t get to make the robot non-binary), but I guess it’s implied in the 3rd iteration? (That would be the first new one, after the IoW retcon making most champions’ 2nd lores being the same lore with any reference to the titular League of Legends removed.) He works with Viktor in that one. It doesn’t fit with Viktor’s updated lore at all, actually, because it mentions Stanwick absolutely zero times. (A post for another day...)

Has nothing to do with Urgot, since Urgot’s different now.

So, the general plot of “professor rips off a student” is there, it’s just got an added layer of “professor rips off a foreign/out-group student” in new lore to tie into the overarching idea of Piltover exploiting Zaun. (Is Zaun considered foreign? Yes? No? It’s sort of textually implied sometimes to be another city, but can it actually be when it’s physically underneath Piltover? Is the metaphor in new lore a class thing, then? Is it both? Am I supposed to take Viktor’s Russian accent into account when reading this text? I don’t know.) Anyways, so far so... same, in the broad strokes. Unless Viktor’s villainy in old lore is specifically because someone from his city ripped him off, I don’t know how you can compare new/old lore and say that old painted him as a villain.

But what about the everything else I put there? We’re getting there - that’s part of Viktor’s in-universe stuff. I’m taking a quick detour out of universe, to Jayce’s very first lore...

Which had Viktor stealing a techmaturgical device from Jayce. While I can’t cite this, sadly - thank you, Riot deleting the old forums and me not having the patience to look through archives at the moment - there was a backlash around this on the forums. Why would Viktor, a character who’d been stolen from, steal in turn? So Jayce’s second lore, the one that most people were familiar with before the new lore update, was made. Now Viktor stole a crystal after trying to partner with Jayce, Jayce was less well-established as an inventor, he had a bit more character... All good things. (Also, this is probably where the new lore direction of them being former college colleagues come from.)

Also, as an aside: this is the first use I can see of crystals specifically being described as arcane power sources... The only other discussion of magical crystals was the Brackern... which was then merged into magical crystals having to be from the Brackern... Which means that...

But anyways! Clearly Viktor fans didn’t see him as a villain in 2012, or at least not one that would victimize others in the same way that he’d been hurt. They made such a fuss about it that Jayce’s lore was changed to paint Viktor more sympathetically! (When’s the last time that there’s been that much backl- oh. It’s Seraphine again. Anyways.) So, again, Viktor’s perception as an evil scientist mostly seems to have come from people who weren’t really familiar with his lore. So... case closed?

Except that I also want to talk about in-universe things! Everything that I told you to put in your back pocket! Because this post is already over a thousand words and I have thrown myself firmly into this vortex.

Viktor’s victimization by society [Joker meme] is actually probably worse in old lore, which is a fact that I think has been pretty overlooked. While new lore Viktor gets kicked back down to Zaun and gets his work stolen in academia - with Stanwick presumably never being questioned on whether or not he made Blitzcrank, because there’s that whole “Zaunites are bad” thread that is both in and out of universe... Old lore Viktor sure does get it worse, although I admit that this requires some interpretation of canon. His thing with Blitzcrank was, again, a “legal maelstrom” - and with Blitzcrank being considered a Zaunite celebrity before this court case, it seems relatively easy/logical to infer that this maelstrom was a very public case.

So all of Zaun gets to see Viktor crash and burn in court. I’d say that’s a bit worse than just academia seeing it, as is the case in new lore.

And then there’s Blitzcrank’s lore flat-out saying that “most now know the truth” about who made him. (While this lore does predate Viktor’s existence - isn’t it odd to think about a Blitzcrank made by a faceless team of generic doctoral students, rather than Viktor... and a faceless team of generic doctoral students? - I see no reason not to take it as canonical for Viktor’s original lore. There’d been minor lore touchups before, so if Riot wanted Viktor’s creation of Blitzcrank to be an unknown... they could have edited Blitzcrank’s lore.) But Viktor’s still on the fringes, and nothing in his lore (which, again, was written years after Blitzcrank’s) seems to acknowledge that by the time he enters the League we have confirmation, date-wise, that it’s been years since the truth came out. (Orianna Judgment, etc.) That’s to say: people knowing that Viktor made Blitzcrank does nothing for him - he gets no apologies or anything like that.

Of course, if you take League lore as happening concurrently and nix the Judgments and the League, I guess that this is tenuous - but working within the framework of when he was released, it seems clear to me that the implication of all this lore is (whether it was intended by Riot to be read this way or not) that no one in Zaun cares that Viktor was stolen from. It’s an open secret. No one’s seeking justice for him. But it gets worse...!

So, it’s generally known that Stanwick didn’t make Blitzcrank by the time that the JoJ is running. And he’s just a professor for most of the run of that part of the lore, until... Issue 27. In which he becomes Chairman Pididly, someone who is now implied to have political power. (I have to assume he gets the position due to the political goodwill from Noxus that his revival of Urgot must have brought Zaun, but that’s just interpretation.) But! Even though most people know that Stanwick didn’t make Blitzcrank - that he stole Blitzcrank - he ends up not losing his university job (he’s still Professor Pididly for most of the JoJ, after all) but... gaining political office!

All of this is to say that Zaun is so crooked that you can have the fact that you stole from someone and ruined their life revealed... and get a promotion to government! You can shatter an idealistic man who had a “hope to better society” and make him into someone like the Machine Herald and face absolutely zero repercussions. I think that that is significantly worse than how new lore Viktor’s victimization by Piltover consisted of an academia-only dispute that left him with just some bitterness... New Viktor was, after all, kicked out of Piltovian academia for ethics violations, not for Blitzcrank.

Everything surrounding old lore Viktor is a bit harder to piece together, since you have to look through a few lores and make a few inferences, which is why I think that people don’t realize exactly how bad he had it... (That and time erasing memories, or people being new to the fandom, or people not being interested in Viktor, or...) But he had it bad, and I’m honestly disappointed that we never got to explore much of Zaun’s particular brand of corporate corruption in canon. Now they’re the perpetual underdogs, both victims and villians, and Riot isn’t quite sure how to write them beyond constant exploitation from Piltover. (Even the chem-barons have taken somewhat of a backseat lately in new lore, from what I’ve seen - Piltover seems to be the primary cause of Zaun’s ills, because the combined region is now an upper city/lower city metaphor about class. The chem-barons just seem to be written as a result of Piltover’s ignoring of Zaun - because Zaun seems to be more of an undercity than a sovereign city or state, but that varies depending on whatever piece of lore you’re reading and... Another post, another time.)

So. TL;DR: Viktor’s always been a character who was victimized by a city, be it Zaun or Piltover. Viktor’s always been a character more complex than just a maniacal villain, although it takes more work to see that in his old lore as compared to his new. (His new pretty much screams “we are trying to make him and Jayce morally grey”, after all.) This victimization is arguably worse in old lore, as it’s implied that he went through a very public legal case that ended with Stanwick taking credit for Blitzcrank. In addition to that, Stanwick’s subsequent shift to politics implies that Zaun is so corrupt that most everyone knowing that he’s a thief isn’t an issue at all. He’s untouchable.

Viktor’s always been the result of an idealistic man being crushed by a society that doesn’t care for him and his dreams. That’s nothing new.

#headcanons | beneath the mask #worldbuilding | a smog shrouded city #//lightly seasoned with 'i have my qualms about new lore' seasoning. #//all quotes are from respective lores. i am not fully citing them because if i use apa format for a league meta post i'll simply expire. #//oh also fun fact ionians are referred to as 'peaceniks' by zaunites in that same JoJ issue i pulled the dunderson info from. #//which is cool because that's somewhat canon info (other than zaun being german for fence and some other vague name choices) that... #//zaun was probably intended to be somewhat eastern european flavored from the getgo. so. hc validation. #//admittedly the nik suffix as it is used there is an english variant borrowed from russian/yiddish so... you could argue against me i guess #//but i think that's a much further stretch than my interpretation. anyways i've rambled more than enough. #//you can tell where i started getting super conversational here + when i stopped caring about if i stuck to 'stanwick' or 'pididly'

[thepaganstudygrouppage]

I've done some research and do you think that anthropologically speaking Morrighan might be more of a title of the head of the Tuatha De Danann at the time in mythology than only a name? its a theory I've had for a while. Can you tag the answer #paganstudygroup so i can find it?

Just to make sure I’m understanding your question, I’m reading it as, “Is it possible that the name of ‘the Morrígan‘ is the title of the leader of the Tuatha De Danann rather than the name of a specific goddess?”

Short answer: Maybe.  There are arguments for and against, some more convincing than others, but ultimately we’ll never know for sure in a way that satisfies most standards of scholarship.

Longer answer: Like you say, the name “an Morrígan“ is indeed a title already, most likely translating to “Great Queen.”  Up to seven names have been identified as na Morrígna (plural, “Great Queens”), specifically Badb Catha, Macha, Anu, Fea, Bé Neit, Nemain, and the Morrígan or Morrígu herself, so we do see “the Morrígan“ actively being used as a shared title.  The third-to-last paragraph in this post about the Gaulish goddess Cathubodua attempts to help explain that.

It’s very difficult to say much about the gods in their pre-Christian context because the pre-Christian Irish were a group of insular communities with their own group identities, their own ways of doing things, and no written records.  By the time the myths were being written down, Christianity was the dominant force of both culture and scholar, and we can see how a lot of what we think we ‘know’ about the gods - family relationships, iconographies, and so on - changed over time by comparing the literature.  If the Morrígan was ever a queen or feminine authority over the Tuatha Dé in pre-Christian polytheism, I don’t think there’s any way to know for sure.

There’s tantalizing tidbits supporting the idea, of course: her name itself, as mentioned, plus the similarity of Anu and Danu.  Anu/Anand is occasionally mentioned as one of na Morrígna, but Danu is a linguistic hypothesis; Mary Jones summarizes this whole controversy here.  I support the idea that “Tuatha DéDanann” is better translated as “God-peoples of skill” rather than “people of the goddess Danu,” both because of the historical lack of evidence for Danu herself and because it better reflects the gods as a community.

What’s strange is that despite her name, she’s almost never in a position of actually being a queen.  The only exception I can think of is Macha Mong-Ruadh, one of seemingly five different women named Macha, who enforces her right to rule and is one of the Machas who lends her name to the site of Emain Macha (Fort Navan).  Otherwise, all of na Morrígnaseem to act primarily as sorceresses, battlefield presences and inciters, sometimes as warriors in physical combat, and especially as facilitators of fate and prophecy.  (Although, to be fair, queenship doesn’t feature as prominently as kingship anyway except in a few notable and beautifully dramatic cases.)

Honestly, I think it’s likelier that the name “Brighid” is the descendant of a title used for those who held more conventional dynamics of power.  It translates to “exalted one” and has a history that stretches back to her continental roots.  (This is absolutely not to say that Brighid is Danu or a mother goddess or anything like that.)  Again, however, that’s pure speculation, as far as I know.

UPG: This is now entirely UPG, so take everything I say here with extra grains of salt and personal opinion.  I suspect that the title of queen is more a reference to the essence of her power as opposed to a more literal meaning of it.  The Morrígan isn’t described as a literal queen the way the Dagda, Nuada, and others are very straightforwardly kings, but she’s still very much a power behind the throne in her role as a sovereignty goddess.  It’s by her will that she ensures the Tuatha Dé’s victory against the Fomorians in the “Cath Maige Tuired,” for example.  She is/they are the deity/deities known for speaking prophecy, for facilitating destinies, for manifesting the consequences of choice both good and bad (even if that looks more like cursing people and stealing cattle than weaving with the skeins of mortal lives, but hey, everyone needs a hobby).

Lora O’Brien, a well-known Irish polytheist and native Irish person whose discernment and knowledge I’ve come to trust, interprets the Morrígan as queen of the Otherworld specifically, I think based heavily on subtext and UPG/SPG and the tales around Uaimh na gCat, with the other Queens having their own sovereign places in, or closer to, the physical world (e.g. Macha and Ulster, Queen Medb and Connacht, etc).  But the title of “queen” seems to describe the…function, or ideal, of queenship rather than a literal royal office that a phrase like “Queen of the Gods” would imply.  It’s possible it simply refers to her function as a Celtic-style sovereignty goddess.

There’s also the question of Badb Catha.  Even though she’s one of the most well-known and commonly referenced names, I personally don’t perceive her acting in the role of sovereignty goddess in the ways that the Morrígan and Macha do, and if I were to line up the Queens on a spectrum she would have the greatest degree of deviation from the mean for me.  But there are many implications to this that would take too long to unpack here and take me further on a tangent, and not all of her worshipers agree on everything about her anyway, so yeah, YMMV.

(I hope this rambling helps in some way.  I have a lot of feelings about my Queen and I try not to be too biased, but she, as well as the rest of the Tuatha Dé, and basically just gods in general, are terribly complex by nature and circumstance.  This is also my last post as a PSG mod, so I’ve just gotta squee over her. 

- mountain hound

#pagan* #the morrigan #irish polytheism #celtic polytheism #tuatha de danann #anonymous #mountain hound