#but the difference between roman and logan is that. logan constantly dominates conversations

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Succession S2E2 Thoughts

Overall: 

Much better than the terrible agony that was the first episode. 

I still want to wrap Kendall up in a hug and transmit some life into him by osmosis. Shiv...I’m sorry, but I know a lot of you really love her, but I...really don’t. I have some sympathy for her, because she is the person made by a very hostile father and a very hostile world. And there is an element of me being biased towards Tom (although I will admit--will list--all his horrible qualities; I’m just glad he has a decent handful of redeeming ones), but Shiv is a pretty cold person (and yes, I would say that about Logan as well, and Roman--them especially--so I’m not calling her cold simply because she is a strategic, smart woman. But I feel like she has the capacity to be a decent person, with a decent heart, but she will never allow herself to be that kind of person. And that’s the tragedy of her for me. 

Her and Tom’s relationship is, in my view, incredibly unhealthy and fucked up. It’s a one-way street, and they could really be so much better, but...I don’t think they ever will be, unless Tom somehow...takes over, but *snort*. Talk about a clown running the circus. Whew. But yeah, as long as Shiv has so much power skewed in her direction and she doesn’t hesitate to use it and hold it over him, theirs will not be a relationship composed of equals, but Tom will continue to think, in his demented brain, that somehow they mostly are? King and Queen? No, no, Tom. Nice try. But you’re not on that level. It’s true that I see very small, slivers of moments when they need each other, but I...have seen...honestly, I can’t remember seeing one moment where it was clear that Shiv really loved him, just that she needed him. And those are very different things, at least for me. My dream scenario is that Tom can work up the nerve to leave her and be with someone who actually deserves him, but...that’s a different show, certainly not this one. So I suppose I’ll have to sit back and watch this trainwreck. 

Actually, I find it interesting to see the relationship between Logan and Kendall, and Shiv and Tom. They are very parallel in some big ways. Logan and Shiv are both very dominant, both dictate the terms of the relationship, both steer it, manipulate the other person at will, are both strong-willed and strategic but can be cruel, and both place their own interests above everyone else’s. They’re the controllers. Kendall and Tom, at least in this season so far (Tom has always been), are the submissive ones, the yes-men, acting at the behest of their counterparts, both very insecure about their relationships with those counterparts, although, granted, Kendall has passed over into dead-eye territory, where Tom has some life left. I can see how being in their position might be at times comforting, not having pressure on them, kind of enjoying the freedom that being submissive and simply obeying offers. And, really, in the dynamics of both relationships, I really feel for Tom and Kendall. Shiv is, of all the children, most like her father, and was from the beginning, but I think she’s leaning more and more that way, which...is a bad way to lean if you want to cling to some part of your soul. So I...am a bit worried about both Kendall and Tom, but I know something’s going to give at some point. In some way. So I’m...interested. 

One last thing: what made this episode so much better than the first one, for me, is the attention paid to the absurdity of the characters and their lives. That is the glory of the show for me. When it tries to get me to truly sympathize too hard with characters who, by and large, are not very sympathetic, I...am very turned off. Because we’re talking about uber-rich douche-bags who only care about themselves and their power. The only sympathetic characters (and even the moments when sympathetic characters have sympathetic moments and aspects) are ones who show motivations other than power grabs and greed. BUT, when the show highlights the absurd nature of...this entire palace drama? It’s at its height. Its at its best. This episode had a ton of that, and I was very grateful for it. The Vaulter dude was always a great vehicle to highlight some absurdity, and he came through here. Greg, of course, highlights the absurd aspects of Tom and the Roys in general. Connor himself. Amazing. The absurdity bouncing around in this episode made it so, so much better than the first one. 

Overall, B+ episode. 

As I watched: 

Oh, yay, the theme park! Been looking forward to seeing these parts. 

Beavis and Crackhead. Nice.

Aww, MM, you’re getting gray and it’s so...weirdly cute. Damn it. Also I can watch you try to get popcorn out from between your teeth with your tongue all. day. long.

Hmm, Logan listening to Shiv. Roman sees what’s happening. He’s not as stupid as he seems. Which we knew, but it’s nice to see. 

Mondale! And the Mondale voice is back! Tom & Mondale might be my favorite friendship on the show. 

The amount of time Shiv spends looking at her phone instead of talking to and listening to her husband is...pretty fucking sad. She LITERALLY walks away from him when he’s talking. Cool. 

“It’s not really a thing.” UM. WUT. No it’s a huge thing. One partner wanting to fuck other people, while the other one clearly doesn’t really want to is...a huge thing. And not talking about it is going to make everything worse, but sure, okay, continue thinking it’s not really a thing. 

Oh god, it’s kind of painful, how hard he’s trying to...rationalize that he’s okay with everything about their relationship. And trying to like...show he’s ready all the time, always down to fuck, just in case she was wondering. Heh. You can see the insecurity just coming off him in waves. 

Ha. I’m sorry, writers, but...an American wouldn’t say “cheeky” like that. Someone needs to check the British-isms. But it’s nice to see even a show like this mess up. ;) 

I mean, yes, this is a drool-worthy penthouse, but settle down Tom, or I’m worried you’re literally going to start fucking the sofa.

One of these days, Tom is going to actually...not roll over like a submissive dog. Maybe. 

*sings* Tom and Greg, together again, wheee! Tom and his punching bag. Tom, you better watch out, because at some point the bag is going to punch back. 

Um. Tom. I’d go easy on the creepy sexual metaphors. You can’t quite speak with the...disgustingness of Roman. Please stop trying.

LOL Name me one principle. Although, god, this is the ugliest side of Tom. How willing he is to compromise himself for advancement. He’s honestly...kind of a whore sometimes. And it’s his least appealing aspect of his character (his most appealing, of course, being his handsome, handsome cute face). 

By the way, non-Americans, real Americans don’t throw around this many “fucks.” And we don’t constantly speak in sexual metaphors. Granted, I’ve never been among these kinds of...terrible people, but still. 

OMG, her name is actually CYD PEACH?! Wow. No wonder you’re a badass bitch. With a name like that, who wouldn’t be? 

I kind of like this news lady, talking to Tom like the moronic asshole he is. Her sarcasm is just oozing out of her and I love it. This was such a great scene. 

Rough first day, Tom. But, hot damn, is he actually motivated to do...real work? Color me interested to see how this goes. 

Gerry, you’re amazing. You might be one of my favorite characters. 

IPAs that looks like run-off at the car wash. Ahahahahahha. Great line. 

OF COURSE CONNOR HAS AN EMAIL BULLETIN. Actually, Connor might be one of my favorites, too. He represents the most what I like about the show. The absurdity of it. It’s when the show strays too far away from pointing out absurdity that it gets...not nearly as enjoyable. 

Another great example of the absurdity: The conversation between Roman and Connor about the president. 

Ha, yes, Roman invited you to dinner because he’s learning your game, Shiv. He’s learning, against all odds, how to 

You did a thing. Mazel Tov. Another great scene with Roman and Tabitha. 

Oh, Tom, baby, you’re so nervous to...talk to your wife. Heh. That’s kind of sad. And ahahahhaah, you still think you’ve even in the uh, line of succession (too on point?) for CEO. Oh, Tom. You idiot. And, Shiv, you are...you don’t think Tom should get the big job, please. Come on. I wish she’d...be truthful about how much she wants it, at least with Tom, JFC. But honestly isn’t really in her vocabulary, so... ALSO, RAWR. Let me say how SHOCKED I AM that Shiv gets turned on when she thinks about herself being powerful. She gets off when she literally has Tom by the balls. Shocker. Shocker. 

AHAHAHAH, GREG’S APARTMENT SHOPPING. YES. LOL. THIS IS GREAT. Greg is the best. AWW, DID KENDALL JUST GIVE GREG AN APARTMENT? AWWWW, KENDALL! Aww, that awkward hug was probably the most physical affection Kendall’s had in...a long time. LOL. OMG KENDALL WANTS TO BE BUDDIES WITH GREG. YES. 

Oh boy. The most awkward dinner in history. Tabitha is so chill. OH NO, TOM AND TABITHA ALONE IN A ROOM. YOU SHOULD TRY SWALLOWING SOMETHING. OMG JKFDL;AJFKLAFJKSA;KJFDL. AHAHAHAHA. YEEEESSSSS. I like when the relatively powerless characters make a cutting power move. 

NOTHING IS WRONG WITH HIS BODY. DON’T YOU, EVEN. 

Okay, seriously, y’all stop making fun of Tom so hard. Jfc. My heart is going out to him here, honestly. Tom can be a dick sometimes, but this is cruel stuff. 

OMG OMG OMIG OGMD OSALJFSAL;FJSK TOM I’M SO PROUD OF YOU. I’M SO, SO PROUD OF YOU. FOR TELLING SHIV TO FUCK OFF. YES. I’M SO DAMN PROUD OF YOU. DKFLS;FJDKSAOMGGGGGGG. It’s nice to see the tiniest hint of backbone. 

Oof, this is what Tom and Shiv call “talking”? Meh, yeah, Shiv, you need him. You need a stable presence. You need a loyal sounding board. You need a yes man. Their relationship is so fucked up. Yiiiiiikes. They’re pretty much the WORST at open, real communication. 

Oh, boy, oh, boy. Poor Greg. Kendall, you dick. Making this your drug party. Ugh. I’m so fucking disappointed in you. (I’m still pulling for you, though.)

Guh, yeah, the scene in the car with Shiv and Gil...these kinds of scenes really show Shiv’s ugly side. (And Gil’s for that matter.) People needing the upper hand. People shitting all over each other. People needing to be right. 

Logaaaaaan, you’re such a dickheeeaaaad. A manipulative, awful dickheeeaaaad. Although, what a great line: make yourself at home. In...daddy’s office. 

Jesus, Kendall, you need a real car, man. 

AAAAH, IT LOOKS LIKE THE HUNTING EPISODE IS NEXT. AWESOME. 

#succession #succession hbo #tom wambsgans #greg hirsch #shiv roy #roman roy #kendall roy #logan roy

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Zodiacs; The Follow Up

This is the continuation for my previous post about the sides. Their Zodiacs.

In the last post, I finished it off by saying the following;

Patton; Libra

Roman; Leo

Logan; Capricorn

Virgil; Virgo

Now, I am going to talk about how these seem to fit the best, for me, with the sides. Let’s start off with Patton and go down the list that way.

I see Patton as a Libra because I have a friend who acts like a real-life Patton that is a Libra and references off of a few websites I researched off of. Libras love balance and peace.

They try to avoid any conflict and want balance in their lives. He apologizes to Thomas when he realizes that he and Logan were talking over each other and making it hard for him to make decisions. Always tries to help out whenever Thomas is having a dilemma and tries his best to add in what he can.

“ Libra signs can sometimes seem wishy-washy when they are asked to make a decision” which makes them seem like they’re absent-minded or lazy, but in the end their decision will benefit most people. Yet, a “Libra representative has to be careful when talking to other people, for when they are forced to decide about something that is coming their way, or to choose sides, they suddenly realize that they might be in the wrong place and surrounded by wrong people”. He somewhat freaks out under pressure when he is told to do something and slowly follows along because he usually follows his heart, so when he is told something to do, it slowly goes through him to do it

They only really seem unhappy when they are treated unfairly because of their likeliness of fairness. I see this more when he gets left out and joins back in randomly which happens a few times (”potato” and patty-cake with Valerie) where he just kind of does what he wants. 

 “Libra are often self-sacrificing for the good of the team or the family”. He keeps his own emotions, besides happiness, inside for the sake of everyone else and to keep them happy. Cares more for the others more than himself.

They also like to have a say in things, but don’t want to be in charge. This is what Patton do a lot of the time when he and Logan fight or when he joins bantering between the others. He mostly puts small inputs of his own thoughts into the group conversations.

They can be;  “Cooperative, diplomatic, gracious, fair-minded, social”, but they can also; “Indecisive, avoids confrontations, self-pity”. I think you can kind of see these in his personality a lot more since they are the strengths and weaknesses.

Next is Roman;

I see Roman as a Leo but there are other zodiacs that you could pick that would work for him.

“Leo likes the big picture, not the small details and fine print. Things that are too complicated, involved, or boring, they have no patience for.” He tends to push the others ideas out of the way when ever they are long and boring, but when he has the reigns on the project or dilemma, he usually tries to face the big picture than the smaller problems. 

“Leos, not unlike the lion of a pride, need to be adored. If they are ignored or go unrecognized for some contribution they will feel hurt. All Leos like to know that they have been seen and appreciated.” Hint to “Not talk about me?” and when he complains that he wasn’t in the latest video.

“They are dramatic, creative, self-confident, dominant and extremely difficult to resist, able to achieve anything they want to in any area of life they commit to.” Roman is very much so dramatic, creative and self-confident like Leos are and he tries to help Thomas so he can achieve his goals in life that he commits to.

“They are natural leaders and don’t often do well in situations where they have to take orders from others.”  “Able to use their mind to solve even the most difficult problems, they will easily take initiative in resolving various complicated situations.” “Self-confident and attractive, this is a Sun sign capable of uniting different groups of people and leading them as one towards a shared cause, and their healthy sense of humor makes collaboration with other people even easier.” He does try to help the group by finding out new ideas and different ways to go about a dilemma. He also has a great sense of humor, if you do find his name calling as humor, plus he also likes Patton’s jokes.

“They are in search for self-awareness and in constant growth of ego.” “As for love, I’m in between princes and princesses, I am on a solo quest to save...myself.”

Thirdly, Logan;

I changed up Logan’s a few times since he was hard to find one for, yet he seems more like a Capricorn.

“They are masters of self-control and have the ability to lead the way, make solid and realistic plans, and manage many people who work for them at any time.” “Highly intellectual, good with numbers and analysis, this sign is not often loud, but they are most definitely the muscle and the power behind the very successful machine.” “Capricorns are the superheroes when It comes to making realistic, logical decisions. Their ability to cut through the red tape and see the bottom line is what makes them a real asset to any relationship or occupation where teamwork is valued.” You can view “Losing My Motivation” for that where it does show all of these ideas in his personality.

“Capricorn people are the type that are goal oriented and driven to succeed despite all odds.” “They will work long and hard hours toward a purposeful goal. Achievement is everything to a Capricorn.” He tried to do these things in “MOVING ON, Part 1/2″ where he is mostly goal driven to figure out the best way to help Thomas move on. He also does this in “Losing My Motivation” and “The MIND VS. The HEART!”. 

“Unfortunately, this element also makes them stiff and sometimes too stubborn to move from one perspective or point in a relationship.” “Its influence makes these people practical and responsible, but also cold, distant and unforgiving...” He shows his stiff/stubbornness in “The MIND VS. The HEART!” when he tells Morality that, from a logical standpoint, he is fine though Morality says not to speak over Thomas, but continues to banter with him over this. Also, from the outlook of him, he seems cold and distant because he isn’t a feeling.

“For this reason they tend to take life very seriously and are not tolerant of those who do not.“ He seems to not like Roman and Patton’s outlooks on life because they are dream/fantasy-like shown in “Growing Up” and “Alone on VALENTINE’S DAY!”.

“They are natural born leaders, politicians, mathematicians, and diplomats. Capricorn people tend to guard their hearts closely and well. To get close to a Capricorn may take some time, but once achieved, well worth it.” “Because they are so dedicated to the big picture and the minute details, they can seem dull to others, who don’t understand the active internal nature of the Capricorn. While seeming almost emotionless on the surface, the Capricorn’s mind is always running on overdrive” Shown in “MOVING ON” parts one and two it shows all of these things that are told above. He gives Patton a new jacket since they have slowly become closer and he seemed emotionless to the others while he was actually running over things quickly to try and help Thomas’s loss

“Capricorn have a dry sense of humor and their sarcastic wit is only appreciated by those who find humor everywhere.” “-Because you’re an airhead” “-You  malodorous scent-urion,oh!”

“Often they can be the less imaginative of the signs and refuse to face the facts about a situation because it would signal that they were wrong about something (which they hate).” “They will learn from their mistakes and get to the top based solely on their experience and expertise.” Roman: Yes, You were completely right! Logan: I know. Roman: meaning you were right about initially being wrong. Logan: *sterner* I know. 

Finally, Virgil;

It was hard to figure out Virgil’s too! Yet, I found that Virgo fits him pretty well and...Virgil...Virgo. Pretty similar words.

“Virgos are always paying attention to the smallest details and their deep sense of humanity makes them one of the most careful signs of the zodiac.” “Constantly worried that they missed a detail that will be impossible to fix, they can get stuck in details, becoming overly critical and concerned about matters that nobody else seems to care much about.” “Virgo people are mild mannered on the surface, but underneath there is a flurry of activity. Their minds are never quiet; always thinking, calculating, assessing.” “They loves making something out of nothing.” This is what Anxiety mainly can be, an overthinking/worry in your mind that makes small things big. Virgil does that to Thomas a lot when he makes mistakes, going to parties, unstable sides, or sometimes...whenever. Remember “My NEGATIVE Thinking” and “Taking on ANXIETY”.

“This is a sign often misunderstood, not because they lack the ability to express, but because they won’t accept their feelings as valid, true, or even relevant when opposed to reason”. This seems the case when Virgil’s character was finally fully developed. He was often misunderstood as “The bad guy”. He was pointed out for many problems due to him causing Thomas anxiety. That’s why he hopped out of the group in “ACCEPTING ANXIETY”. He didn’t want himself to bother or get in the way of the sides and Thomas anymore. 

“This sign would do well to carefully consider the situation and the task before agreeing to take it on.” “Virgil: I've got a bad feeling about this Thomas;I've got a bad feeling about everything that's why we're doing this” he is usually forced into situations before he can agree on it because Thomas and some of the sides choose to just press on without giving Virgil a thought on how he’s feeling besides Logan, and sometimes he, too, also does that.

“They do not tend to be loud or bossy, but are brilliant strategists and an asset to any team.” In “Losing My Motivation”, he helps out Logan by giving him some ideas about who the culprit is. He can be very essential to the team when they aren’t forgetting about him and teasing him.

“They are not loud ‘look at me’ signs, but rather prefer to be the strong, silent type.” This shows up in “The Sanders Sides 12 DAYS OF CHRISTMAS!” where they go to sing and he doesn’t want to while his fight or flight acts up. Along with that, he thinks his gift for Patton is dump because its not as amazing as everyone else, yet it still has a nice compliment in it. (A misleading compliment)

“Virgo are opinionated and have no problem sharing their opinions, even when they should not.” Think of “My NEGATIVE Thinking”, “Am I ORIGINAL?”, “A New Year of Lying to Myself... In Song!! “, and a lot of other videos because he is one source of Thomas’s reasoning.

Now, that’s my own opinion on why they are those zodiacs personality wise not by date, so if you needed references for a fic or an idea for their personalities, I hope this helped. That’s all folks! Thanks for reading! This took longer than expected.

references are here and here.

#roman sanders #patton sanders #virgil sanders #sanders sides #logan sanders #zodiac