#but then i was like 'if goku can have like ten versions of himself and it be valid then i can do tien this is fine'
just read ur entire essay about vegeta and like.. goddamn you just gave me a whole new perspective on that funky little man. i love the way it was written and organized
ALSO ALSO i read this bit and am begging u to expand on this concept it sounds so interesting /gen
Oh you would, would you. I am delighted to oblige.
So. Super Saiyan. A transformation available to Saiyans past certain power thresholds that, while more or less freely accessible after first awakening to it, needs a trigger to become accessible in the first place. Over the course of Z in its many adaptations, we see the first awakenings of Goku, Vegeta, Future Trunks, and Gohan onscreen. Goten, Trunks, and Future Gohan are also Super Saiyans, but we don’t know for sure how that came about. Goten and Trunks in particular are why I say that Super Saiyan (more specifically, the first time you access Super Saiyan) can be read as a trauma response, because there’s no real evidence this is the case on their parts. You can make an argument for them, but in general I choose to believe they’re exceptions to this take, so I won’t be discussing them.
Oh and as for Cabba, Caulifla, and Kale…… they’re literally from an alternate universe. Super Saiyan just has different rules there. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Getting back on track. Goku’s the obvious place to start, so let’s look at him first. In the entirety of Dragon Ball (that I’ve seen), not counting the comedic needle bit in that one episode of GT, Goku has only ever been seen crying three times. Once was his reunion with Grandpa Gohan in early Dragon Ball. Once was in the anime’s version of the Tournament of Power, after Roshi’s near-death incident.
Once was at the beginning of King Piccolo, when he finds Krillin dead. King Piccolo saga is a little infamous for the sudden tonal whiplash—yeah, Tien breaks Yamcha’s leg in the tournament just prior, but they make up about it and it’s not as dire as someone dying. What’s really striking to me about it is Goku’s reaction. He’s more upset than we’ve ever seen him. And he loses worse than we ever see him lose because of it. Sure, in the end everything is put right, but.
But, the thing about trauma is that it makes time go weird. Fast forward about ten years. It’s suddenly happening again. His best friend is dead. He couldn’t do anything to stop it. He doesn’t know that Porunga can revive people who have already died once. As far as Goku knows, Krillin’s gone for good this time. And he watched it happen and watched Freeza laugh about it.
And he reacts essentially the same way. Only this time, he’s orders of magnitude stronger than he was when he was 15, and he has the experience and the wherewithal to control himself somewhat better. Emphasis on somewhat, because it’s very clear that he’s worried about going completely off the deep end in the grips of this power. And he’s right to be! I’m willing to bet money that in Gohan’s whole life, Goku has never pulled the ‘I’m your father, don’t talk back to me’ card on him, and that’s one of the smallest ways this power changes him. When he’s fighting Freeza, he’s a lot more like Vegeta, down to the way he smirks. He’s condescending. He’s brutal. I’ve seen comments to the effect of ‘Freeza’s not fighting Goku anymore—now, Freeza’s fighting Kakarot’ and that’s truly what it feels like.
I could go on, but the particulars of the Namek fight aren’t the important part. The important part is that Goku recognizes how badly that whole thing fucked him up and stays on Yardrat for a year explicitly to get a handle on Super Saiyan before returning home. He knows that if he loses control like that again, there’s a very real possibility he’ll end up hurting someone he cares about, or worse, becoming someone he really doesn’t want to be. (Call it a reach, it definitely is one, but I like to believe Goku picked up Instant Transmission while he was there so he’ll never be too late or too far away to help ever again.)
Vegeta’s case is less… visible? So, much of this is going to be purely my extrapolation. If you take him at his word, Vegeta triggered Super Saiyan with the sheer amount of hatred he felt toward himself for his inadequacy and like. Hello. That’s already a giveaway. I don’t believe he’s outright lying, but I also believe he’s simplifying matters a little. Or a lot. Per My Last Long-Winded Essay, he only gets that far because he leaves Earth entirely for areas uninhabited, which is good for him in some respects and bad for him in others.
The sweet irony of it is that it was Vegeta’s own efforts that locked him out of Super Saiyan. He tried to brute-force his way into it singlemindedly, in the belief that he was simply not strong enough, but Super Saiyan’s trigger is raw, overwhelming emotion. It can be one very clear emotion, or several different ones mixed up, but it’s emotion. It doesn’t answer to logic by its very nature, and frankly, neither does trauma. So Vegeta’s removed all the distractions to his training, yes, but in doing so he’s also removed all the distractions from everything else. Without anybody else around, he doesn’t have anything to get himself out of his own head, so now he’s got a whole universe of space for two and a half decades’ worth of repressed shit to come raging out. Funny how the minute he lets himself feel actual emotions other than the ones he wants everyone to see, the transformation explicitly tied to and powered by emotion rears its head, huh.
Vegeta makes several really dumb decisions once he gets back on Earth, in sharp contrast to the way he handles himself on Namek before he’s face-to-face with Freeza. On Namek, he’s careful to fly under the radar whenever he can, which is why I love the fit he launches into when he realizes Gohan played him, because that’s his control slipping. He’s opportunistic and sneaky and it’s clear he’s doing his damnedest to get what he wants without having to fight people who can kill him. He doesn’t hear the Ginyu Force is coming and rush off to challenge them, he’s like ‘oh shit’ and immediately fucks off elsewhere. I can only make sense of the way he acts during the androids/Cell as a symptom of his need to prove himself.
And make no mistake—it is a need, not a want. The power’s meaningless without people to witness and acknowledge it, the same way the authority of royalty is. His chosen course of action, though, is sort of like painting over rotten wood, if that makes any sense. Letting himself get high off the power, pretending that everything went exactly the way it should have gone from the start, refusing to acknowledge all of his Issues more than passingly. Furthermore, his victory must be complete and unquestionable: that’s why he lets Cell take Android 18. He can’t just… not lose, he has to win. Anything less is anathema to him. You see, he hasn’t yet figured out that he can survive without it.
Okay sorry that got a little in the weeds but I hope you get what I was driving at there. Vegeta’s a mess and talking about him makes me Unstable. Let’s move on.
Of the main four Saiyans, I think Future Trunks’ awakening is the simplest to understand: his trigger is that moment of pure, crushing grief when he finds Gohan dead in the rain. And it’s no wonder. Aside from Gohan and his mother, who does Trunks even talk to in that timeline? We never see him with friends, not until Super. Trunks’ ‘You were everything to me’ in the dub version of the special might be only debatably canon but it’s hardly an exaggeration. Friend. Teacher. Comrade. Brother. Perhaps even a father figure, in some ways. Certainly the only other one of his kind—half-human, half-alien from a long-dead warrior race. There was literally nobody else in the world who could come close to understanding him to the degree that Gohan could have. Gohan dies and Trunks is effectively all alone, the terminarch of one species left to shoulder the fate of another.
It’s a staggering loss for anybody, let alone for a boy of 12 or 13.
Speaking of. Gohan. I think Gohan’s a strange case—not powered by grief or anger, but something different. In the moments before he unlocks Super Saiyan, he’s thinking ‘I have to do it’ before flashing abruptly to all the different times where he was ‘too weak or too scared’ to fight. I personally believe that it’s less determination or ‘the power coming in response to a need’, as Goku puts it, that tips him over the edge. Fear, I think—while not being the whole reason, there’s surely some self-directed anger or disappointment involved—is probably the biggest factor. That’s Gohan’s whole thing—he’s scared of fighting, and to some degree of his own power. If I laid out all the specific examples we’d be here for another thousand words, so I’ll just say that he’s been Through It. We all know this.
This sort of has a continuation in the iconic Super Saiyan 2 transformation against Cell. It’s all on him and it’s not until Cell actually kills someone in front of Gohan that it really twigs that it’s do or die for him. And as much as he’s angry at Cell, the realization that Cell means business, that he really will kill them all? It scares him. Fight or flight takes over. The only real difference is that he chooses fight. The change in how Gohan handles Cell is what really convinces me that emotionally he’s going through something similar to Goku and Vegeta—because it’s almost to the letter exactly what happens with Goku against Freeza. The cruelty, the condescension. I’d argue Gohan leans into the mean demeanor, subconsciously or not, to keep from feeling the fear. And it costs him. But the Gohan discussion is a whole other discussion.
As for Future Gohan, I’m putting a disclaimer here now that none of what I’m about to say is really provable—just really really interesting to think about.
Future Gohan’s life is maybe the worst-case scenario. Like the future timeline sucks specifically for Gohan because he doesn’t like to fight and he has to anyway because what other choice does he have? Let everyone on Earth die without at least trying? He couldn’t, not in good conscience. And it’s not like he’ll have a normal life so long as the androids are around anyway. So in the middle of grieving basically everybody he’s ever known and felt affection for (sans his mother and grandfather, it’s more implied that he’s estranged from them, or at least intentionally distancing himself from them to keep them out of harm’s way), he's also making himself channel anger he hates feeling so he has a shot of even surviving these killers that only exist because of something his father did at least ten years ago. This shouldn’t be his fight, and yet.
Here’s my personal theory. Gohan goes into that final fight with the androids fully intending to die. Not just expecting to, but hoping to. He knows that if he was only barely scraping through those fights with both arms, there’s no way in hell he’ll kill them both when he only has one. He’s not an idiot, but you know what he is? Exhausted. Twelve years of this, being the only resistance to this threat and failing each and every time. He knows what will unlock Super Saiyan for Trunks. He knows there’s someone to carry on the torch and lift the burden. And it’s cruel and selfish of him to put all of that on Trunks and throw himself to the wolves, but it was cruel that he had to carry that all by himself for so long.
He’s fucking tired.
Anyways. That’s my TEDtalk on Super Saiyan. If you read it all the way to the end you’re a real one. Thanks for this ask, you two!
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the hell of vegeta swearing to never fight again is that he actually follows through, at least in the beginning.
there are seven years between cell and buu. in every version of the media i’ve gone through--english manga, uncut dub, uncut jp, kai dub--bulma says that vegeta has trained the last five years before the tournament. which can only mean that there was a two year gap right after the cell games where he didn’t train at all.
and like. can you really blame him. his purpose in life has been cut out from under him not once but twice, first by goku attaining super saiyan and avenging their people by killing freeza, and then by goku’s decision to stay dead and deny him the opportunity to surpass him. his strength has proven insufficient time and again no matter how hard he works, overshadowed by a boy half his age. his pride hinges on both of those things and even before that was mercilessly trampled on. he dies on namek crying at the feet of both of his bitterest enemies, begging one to kill the other for his sake, after being thoroughly thrashed in front of an audience of people weaker than him (no basia, i won’t get over this). he has no people. no planet. no purpose, power, or pride. i really do think the only things keeping him going by this point are inertia and spite.
what he does have is has seven years to gnaw on a question that will not let him rest. why is goku so much stronger than he is, being what he is? why is he so inadequate? almost without doubt, this is the absolute nadir of vegeta’s existence: at least, the nadir for the man he thinks he has to be, or can’t reconcile not being. if he has nothing, if the last things tethering him to his supposed innate nature (to borrow a turn of phrase from @kanthia, shameless plug,) are torn away from him, what is left for him to do but accept defeat and submit to change?
what he doesn’t know yet is that that’s okay. he doesn’t know yet, but the seven years that goku is no longer a presence in his life is perhaps the best thing goku could have possibly given him. there’s space for new things to grow where his animosity and aggression burned holes in him. even if vegeta is still focused on nursing the embers of that blaze and ignoring the encroaching growth as hard as he can (bulma mentions to gohan that he’s dead set on making trunks stronger than him, and why would he care about that goal specifically otherwise), he is still beginning to care about things that the old him wouldn’t.
and then.
and then all of a sudden, goku is back in the picture. there is now a window, fleeting as it may be, for vegeta to get some answers he probably thought he’d never get. there is now the terrible possibility that he can put things ‘right’. and goku’s willing to let him take that shot and get those answers, right up until the whole business surrounding buu disrupts everything and then he isn’t anymore.
because the thing is, they were scheduled to fight each other before anybody else. vegeta was not supposed to see the gap between him and goku until he was experiencing it for himself, and then his only recourse would be to demand answers from goku--who would surely give them, to the best of his ability!--or to come to his own conclusions and act from there. instead, he's given time to realize that he’s still inferior, he still doesn’t understand why, and most importantly that babidi is an option. there is a way, at the cost of his will.
submitting to babidi to force goku’s hand and close the gap is the act of a man who knows that he is running out of time. vegeta’s pride would not possibly have allowed this unless he was so desperate for closure that he couldn’t see another way. for ten years he’s been trying to rebuild a sandcastle below the high tide line, and it’s not that he’s too stupid to move farther up so he isn’t freshly shattered at every pass--it’s just that trying to power through in the face of futility is literally all that he knows to do. he has been coming apart, stitch by stitch, his worldview and his preconceptions of destiny and self dissolving under his feet in slow motion ever since he met goku. this is the last chance he has, and he knows it. he knows he’s not going to see goku in the afterlife, even before he asks piccolo.
what the fuck else was he supposed to do?
the beauty of his sacrifice is that he still has the mark of evil on his forehead when he dies, even though he’s bucked babidi’s mind control by that point. he chooses to symbolically and very literally raze his old self to the ground for the sake of all that his new self cares for. WHICH IS WHY, his coming back to life actually narratively works for his character: new growth roots in ashes, phoenixes and sapling trees both.
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Dragon Ball Super 096
I can’t believe it still isn’t time for the Tournament of Power to start.
So there’s only eight universes participating in the tournament. The other four universes are exempt from the competition, so all we ever see of Universes 1, 5, 8, and 12 are their top gods and angels, since they get to watch the tournament. I guess we might as well take a look at them, for all they matter.
First off, here’s Universe 1′s Iwan, Anato, and Awamo.
Then we have U5′s Ogma, Cukatail, and Arak.
And U8′s Liquiir, Iru, and Korn. These guys look like a bad bootleg verision of Beerus, Whis, and Shin.
And finally, we have Universe 12′s Martinu, Agu, and Giin.
They’re all admiring the new ring, though some of the Destroyers question whether it’s sturdy enough to handle all the action that’s about to go down. The Grand Minister invites them to have a sparring match on the stage to break it in, and three of the Destroyers decide to go for it. Giin, however, sits this one out, as he already knows how it’ll turn out.
So they fight, and wreck the stage pretty well, and it turns out the Zenos weren’t even watching the action, so it was kind of a waste of time. The Grand Minister than tells them to repair the stage before the Zenos wake up from their nap. Whoops.
On Earth, no one is happy about Frieza being on the team, least of all Vegeta, but we’ve been over this already. Whis wants them all to hold hands while they teleport to the tournament stage, and Vegeta balks at holding hands with Frieza, so Beerus puts himself in between to settle it.
Of course we all know that Frieza really wanted to hold Yamcha’s hand, but he didn’t make the cut, sorry.
As Bulma sees them off, she calls out some words of encouragement to them, which in the original Japanese version would turn out to be the last lines Hiromi Tsuru would record for the character before her untimely passing in 2017.
Moving on. Everyone checks out the stage and Goku tests the whole “no flying” thing. It’s not really a rule, per se. Somehow, the Grand Zenos have arranged it so that the fighters can’t use flying techniques while they’re on the stage. Also, there’s some weird deal where every fighter experiences the gravitational force of the planet they were born on. So Goku and Vegeta must be experiencing ten times Earth’s gravity, while Gohan’s feeling the same gravity as Earth. Some characters in this thing have wings, and they can fly, but only because they’re not using special techniques to do it.
Frieza notices Frost and “Careless Whisper” begins to play in the Null Realm.
Goku tries to say hello to the other Universe 6 Saiyans, but Kale’s afraid of him, and Caulifla slaps his hand away. “I’m gonna beat your ass, Goku,” she basically says to him. Caulifla rules.
Goku tries to mingle with the U11 team, but they hate his guts on general principle. In particular, Jiren wants nothing to do with him.
We close out with a bunch of group shots of the eight teams, but honestly, I don’t want to get into that. We’ll have plenty of time to talk about the teams once this thing gets underway.
And phew! We’re finally done with the third quarter of Dragon Ball Super. The waiting is over. Next episode, we’ll start the Tournament of Power, and finally get to the real meat and potatoes of this show. No more bullshit, it’s time for the main event.
Well, first I need to double back and cover the manga version of this pre-tournament stuff. But that shouldn’t take too long...
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Shoulda been Gohan
DBZ really had a great chance to make Gohan a meaningful symbol for people and completely squandered it.
Dragonball and the start of Z are about Goku, an alien that knows nothing of his race or culture, raised by humans ala Superman and learning to protect that which he holds dear all while being a positive influence and compassionate to even villains. It’s a good message, even if I personally find Goku’s forgiveness to be a bit too lenient at times, the longer the series goes on, the more it makes sense to me. It makes Goku more “pure” and gives a chance for villains (typically well-written characters) to return, yatta yatta fanservice blah blah blah. Fine.
Gohan, on the other hand, the series should have gone to after the Cell saga. They’d definitely built him up and I think it would have been the natural progression of the series if it were going to continue at all. Instead, we got the Buu saga, an ending where Goku and Vegeta just have miniature versions of themselves, GT and then way later, Super.
Think about it though! Goku’s story is about learning to care for a species, planet, culture that isn’t your own. It’s about the ideals you’re instilled with and finding things worth protecting, even if it seems like you have no identity or it was all taken away from you.
Gohan pretty early on learns that he’s a saiyan. He’s half-saiyan, half-human which is already an interesting combination for a character in Dragonball but on top of that, he’s raised primarily as a Namekian. Gohan is a biracial (bispecies??) character, raised by someone of yet another race that has little identity of their own heritage. You know, until they all go to his home planet and meet the whole race. That’s super interesting stuff! I remember at the time thinking that DBZ implied Gohan was stronger than Goku because he was half-human and half-saiyan.
Gohan’s early years are defined by traumatic events, seeing loved ones die and being too young and weak to do anything about it which fills him with this deep rage that boils over and makes him powerful. He watches his “adoptive father” kill his biological father (willingly) because his uncle comes to kill their whole planet. He travels to an alien planet to stop Frieza, this evil space Nazi that commanded the entire race of his father’s side of the family and made them evil space warriors. Upon getting there though, he learns that the planet is that of his adoptive father.
He watches the warriors fight and even picks up a few things from them that he likes, evil as they are (Great Saiyaman, whether or not you like him, is obviously inspired by the Ginyu Force). He sees Piccolo, his adoptive father die and has to leave his biological father shortly after in the hopes that he can win against Space Hitler.
And despite all of this, he still doesn’t like to fight. His fathers both like to and his biodad is such a beacon to the universe for strong warriors to come face that he’s thrown into the battlefield again and again. Gohan still has his mother’s humanity, her kindness and just wants to be gentle. He makes friends with Android 16, a robot that loves peace and nature because they share that. He’s a tender hearted person.
Cell kills 16 in front of him and tells him that he is going to kill everyone on his planet. And Gohan explodes.
The way in which he fights Cell is so nuanced too. He doesn’t want to fight but when he snaps, he wants to drag it out which ultimately leads to Goku having to intervene and sacrifice himself yet again. Gohan is crushed. It’s a child’s mistake. It’s learned behavior from watching heroes and villains fight and finally being the one in the limelight--the one that everyone depends on. He wants Cell to suffer. His thirst for revenge makes him want to cause pain instead of just administering justice. And his father has to pay the price.
Gohan is ten years old at this point.
I won’t go into the Buu saga or Super much because I honestly just don’t like it that much and I feel like it’s a pretty weak chapter for DBZ, especially to end it on. I understand the direction they took Gohan in, having him focus on his studies and not wanting to fight. It’s believable in a way, that he wouldn’t want to after what happened with Cell, but I personally think that with Piccolo, Krillin and the rest as his real only “friends” that Gohan would still stay sharp, especially with Goku dead. Instead through Z and Super they just make him weaker and weaker and give the spotlight to Goku and Vegeta again and again while all other characters fall further into obscurity. Super brings other characters back to give them something to do and I think in some new content we’ll see more, but it’s more of a patchwork over bad decisions than anything else.
tl;dr: I think Gohan is the most interesting character in Dragonball that didn’t get the writing that he deserved because fans didn’t want to see the series be about anybody other than Goku/Vegeta. DBZ had the perfect opportunity to be the very first “sequel about protag’s children” series.
Gohan is a biracial character raised by another race that goes through immense trauma at a young age. He watches his closest friends and family members die and doesn’t want to fight but is frustrated by being too young and weak to protect them. He’s defined not only by the people around him but the experiences he goes through and it showed in his character, mannerisms, costume choices (Gohan in Piccolo’s clothes >>>>>>>>>>>) and more. He’s a great melting pot of identities, values, beliefs that make him compelling and I think is a good message. There is no one quite like Gohan and while I find Trunks and Goten... interesting, they never get the development that Gohan has.
Learn about other cultures, be open-minded, care about the world(s) around you and protect the people that cannot protect themselves. Remember where you came from but don’t let it define you. You define you. Be kind, compassionate, learn from your mistakes and the mistakes of others.
Gohan deserved better.
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all i did this mothers day was think about 22nd tien in fighterz
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Just discovered your blog today and am enjoying it immensely. I do have some questions about which is more "valid" between the DBS anime and manga though. The manga at least on a surface level has a tighter adherence to the manga's continuity, such as the lack of Gregory, no showing the Trunks' first SS transformation from the anime version of his past, and the SS Caulifla and Kale fusion churning out a SS fusion, which would seem to be what Old Kai meant when warning Goku and Vegeta 1/2
“2/2 But those are ultimately minor I suppose and perhaps they have explanations like "Trunks wasn't transforming for the first time in the Super flashback". I'm not a Toyo stan by any stretch and can't stand how he butchered my boi GOATku among other things but it seems like the manga would be just as valid/canonical as the anime. Toriyama works closely with Toyo as with the anime team and calls the manga a continuation. Sorry if this has been asked before, and keep up the good work“
Well first and foremost, welcome. Glad you’re enjoying this blog. As for the question, I’ve touched on it before, but I’ll dip into it again.
There’s definitely a bit more of a hierarchy than people want to admit, at least in terms of which would be “more canon” when it comes to the mediums of Super. To that end, I like to look at continuity, characterization, and lead platform.
See, the thing about Super, as it stands, is that it was never meant to have an ongoing manga. At all. It was written, conceived, and meant to be an anime series with Toriyama’s involvement. The “manga”, as it were, was originally meant solely to be a preview/promotional series for said anime, something to hint at things to come. That’s why the Beerus arc is so short and rushed.
When it came to the Resurrection F arc, however, that was when Toyotaro pitched the idea of letting him turn the series into an actual, full-fledged series, something Toriyama was ok with more or less because it meant that at least he wouldn’t have to draw it, and because he was interested in seeing how the anime and manga writers respectively would adapt his storyline ideas.
In that sense, the anime was the original, intended medium and means by which the series was meant to be carried forward, hence why I would consider that the lead platform.
Beyond that, let’s look at continuity. Truth be told, neither manga nor anime are 100% flawless in it, making references to things that were filler in the name of comedy, or simply forgetting or ignoring a detail or two from the past. But even in cases of references to filler, I’d argue that they don’t INHERENTLY represent continuity errors per se, as they don’t directly contradict events depicted, and on occasion don’t even necessarily indicate that the exact filler events actually happened; in some cases, they’re just in-jokes or references for longtime fans and viewers.
Trunks’ “first time” transformation also doesn’t necessarily pin it as his first time in continuity, so much as simply reuse the animation and have the boy transform in a moment of grief. Don’t recall any direct reference to that being his first transformation at all. Similarly, I wouldn’t say Gregory inherently means Filler Gregory is meant to be who this one is, as Gregory in Super really doesn’t speak or have anything close to the same personality. Similarly, Android 18 being as mad as she was about the mispronunciation of Marron as Maron can be seen as a nod to Krillin’s filler ex-girlfriend without actually acknowledging her. (As well as clearing up the whole “she’s named after her” thing since even the pronunciation is different in Japanese.) They’re not necessarily baking these things into continuity, just referencing them.
One big problem the Super MANGA has, however, in an internal continuity issue. Toyotaro often feels a need to EXPLAIN things that don’t necessarily need to be explained, in an effort to feel like he’s fleshing things out more. The problem is... he often writes himself into a corner that way, as he doesn’t seem to run his ideas by Toriyama or check them against the man’s notes as much as he should, and thus finds himself in trouble later. Case-in-point: His decision that Super Saiyan Blue’s use had a mandatory cooldown period between uses, or else the multiplier the user receives from the form drops exponentially each time. Seemed a good way to potentially limit the form at the time, keep it from being “overused”, except... they very quickly found themselves in situations where it would HAVE to be used, to say nothing of the narrative issue of having Vegeta be in a reduced state of Blue by the time he faced Hit, thus making Hit’s win less shocking, and Hit himself a bit less formidable, to say nothing of downplaying Goku’s skill and reaction to it; he should have had a far easier time naturally, after all. This also causes some issues with Vegeta’s tactic vs Zamasu of popping into SSG for a speed advantage and then quickly in and out of SSB to strike, as that should have lowered the effectiveness each time, and THAT was done to deal with ANOTHER restriction Toyotaro had baked into the form of it draining ki almost as quickly as SSJ3 had back in the Buu arc, and that Godly Aura was actually just wasted ki. All of this then had to be negated via Toyotaro’s own version of SSB Kaioken, which was just... “Perfected” Blue. Which is just Blue without an aura. Which then leads into Goku knowing how to use Hakai despite not actually being a God of Destruction, not having ever even practiced it to know if he could do it, and only allegedly having seen Beerus use it once offscreen, which has to be inferred by the reader.
These are actually just a FEW of said issues in the manga version of things, but in my opinion, the biggest signifier and offender comes in the final category: Characterization.
It’s no real secret that Super does retread some characterization ground, but there’s a reason for that. New viewers, same characters, etc. Vegeta was sort-of given a full arc already, but due to popularity and ‘demand’, he has to be given a central role and can’t sort of fade back like Piccolo, Krillin, Tien, etc. were able to do once their respective arcs were done. (This also allows their own mini-arcs in the anime to feel more fulfilling as they’re not constantly shoved in your face, and they can touch on things happening or building up in the background of episodes, BUT, let’s move on.) As a result, one of the purposes of Battle of Gods, and how it was handled as an arc and the eps that followed it, was to establish a new sort of rivalry between Goku and Vegeta so as to renew that arc/dynamic for this particular series.
And that’s where the manga... sort of falls flat. Vegeta is kept in prominence despite a lack of any sort of established/renewed rivalry with Goku; BoG was done in shorthand, after all, and the events following that, as well as the entire Resurrection F arc, were skipped wholesale. In fact, Vegeta himself seems to have gone through a VERY radical personality shift in that... he’s... nice. And I don’t mean nice-ER, he’s outright nice. He shows open affection for his family, he literally runs over to embrace his baby in happiness and rejoices that it’s a girl, he engages in pleasantries with the rest of the cast before the Tournament of Power and asks about their wellbeing, he’s got almost none of his original character traits other than a flair for the dramatic... and bear in mind, Vegeta still has that hardass-ness to himself in the End of Z, which these events are supposed to lead into. And this isn’t even touching on how the narrative seems to shift frequently toward him being THE hero of the series, often actually placing Goku in near-helpless situations and having Vegeta inexplicably bail him out, or just have Goku be in awe or starstruck at how awesome Vegeta is now. The Future Trunks arc, for example, has Vegeta healed only to the point of being able to stand, yet when Goku is shrinking back in fear at the sight of TWO Fused Zamasus coming at him, Vegeta... transforms, swoops in, rescues Goku, AND nukes both Fused Zamasus with a single blow. (It doesn’t “win the day”, no, but it’s a mite riduculous). The current arc is also trying to wholesale shift focus away from Goku onto Vegeta in a leading role, which is a distinctly non-Toriyama move.
And now, let’s talk Goku himself. HOO boy, where to begin...
For all the talk of flanderization of Goku in the Super anime (which I could write entire rants on but I’ll refrain for now), the manga does him ten times worse. Almost every negative fandom meme or interpretation of Goku is reinforced in this arc, sometimes even to the point of literal, direct lampshading of it. For example: Goku in the anime makes a comment on how he doesn’t see why Bulma would “kill” Vegeta if he’s not right there when Bulma starts labor, as he was dead when Goten was born and Chi-Chi doesn’t hold ill will over it. The manga? It quite literally has Goku state he wasn’t around for the birth of Goten OR GOHAN. He couldn’t even be bothered to be there for the birth of his son he was alive to see. When Whis pops baby Bra out via magic so Vegeta can attend the ToP, Goku is... apparently still so dumb that he legitimately wonders aloud if that’s how ALL babies are born. Goku, in this same tournament, has ZERO strategic or technical skill, and relies solely on brute force and powerups (which is actually how VEGETA typically fights but I digress) and even has both Roshi admonish him for it and even has Goku agree with it and declare himself a “bad student” and say that he’s “done letting everyone around him down”. This manga also has Goku and Gohan’s relationship visibly strained, with Goku seemingly trying to cut himself out of Gohan’s life completely as the kid has no interest in fighting. To top this off, rather than attending the tournament in a gi fashioned after his father, whom Gohan canonically does admire, the manga has him deliberately ask to have another carbon copy of Piccolo’s. Hell, Gohan is so far from Manga!Goku’s mind here, that it doesn’t even occur to Goku to ASK Gohan if he wants to fight in the ToP after Buu falls asleep. In fact, Piccolo suggests it... and Goku PROTESTS the idea, saying the kid’s got no stomach for fighting and they should look elsewhere. The only time Goku seems to show an interest in Gohan is when he shows off his power in a fight vs Kefla. This is distinctly, demonstrably, simply NOT Toriyama’s Goku, in any way, shape, or form.
Now, to speak on the other characters and their characterization... when it does exist, it’s one-dimensional and also often based around fan conceptions and memes. Krillin? Comedic coward who can’t fight. Goku even says that he thinks Krillin’s sole usefulness in the ToP might come in the form of him “being really good at running away”. He’s literally only in because Toriyama said so, and is literally immediately ringed out before he can so much as move. Tee hee so funny. Tien, who has no personality of note, is then also immediately out. Piccolo is just Gohan’s coach, really. Android 18 shows no emotion at all, even for her brother’s apparent death; this is later played off as her knowing he didn’t have his bomb anymore (something even Krillin somehow forgot???) so knowing he couldn’t have self-destructed... even though there are other ways to do that besides a bomb but w/e. 17 literally shows more care and affection for 18′s husband than she herself does as well, and their bond is pretty much non-existent. Chi-Chi and Goten pretty much do not exist. Trunks’ reunion with Gohan, meeting his family? Never happens. And Bulma... OH BULMA. What he did to that woman is criminal. She mostly plays the role of the worried Soldier’s Wife, fretting as she awaits her dashing husband’s return from war! The Bulma that wouldn’t take no for an answer? The Bulma that always insisted on going to the front lines to try to see things for herself? The Bulma who would be eager to see this future and see if she could find the notes of her other self and what else she may have discovered? That Bulma does not exist in this manga. HELL, the Bulma who was the smartest woman in the world barely does; what was Pilaf noticing one small math error in an equation in the Super anime becomes Pilaf “WELL ACKSHUALLY”-ing both Bulma and Future Bulma here and PERFECTING Time Travel so they can go to any point they desire, with Bulma being visibly upset about being upstage-aaaaaand she’s pregnant. It’s just... not good at all in this arena.
Now one last thing to mention: Toriyama himself actually did explicitly state that his canon Broly movie, which he did write himself, was set to follow the events of the Super anime specifically, with him saying the manga would probably continue telling its own story. And indeed, there are things about the Broly movie that do tie into what people thought to be just “filler” in the anime, such as the number of wishes Shenron had left tying into the episode where they summoned him and then fought over wishes. The fact that he DOES specify that he wrote it to follow the anime, however, seems like a firm establishment of heirarchy to me personally. I’m sure some will disagree but... that’s life. lol
Anyways, hope that helped clarify my stance on it, at least.
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Cold Blooded
A Dragon Ball Horror Fic {Part 8}
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The Gravity Chamber, at 500 times gravity was nothing compared to how heavy the princes heart felt. Whether he wanted to admit it or not he hurt Carlie and the fact she was UNDERSTANDING- other then alive- is nothing short of a miracle.. shes still his fiance, his mate. Vegeta was getting sloppy and keeping his mind occupied was proving to be a bigger challenge in and of itself.
"Why dont you go apologize to her already?" Bulma's voice cut through the gravity chambers speakers. Vegeta pounded his fist straight through a bot and looked to the screen on the wall. Hes quiet. "Vegeta, your so fucking dense.. shes going through trauma too. All she wants is to be comforted and if you can collect yourself and man up and speak to your *fiance* maybe you two will be stronger then ever.. just get your ass outside and see her." "Where." The prince piped up and turned off the chamber that was encased in red light. "Balcony from my room shes checking out the scenery with her new vision" she winks and turns off the display. "New vision..?" He furrows a brow and rushes out of the chamber.
He made his way to the other end of the building paying no mind to doctors and physicians who stood around scratching their heads. It seems like confusion was becoming more infectious in the walls of capsule corp then people were comfortable with..
He saw her.
Standing on the balcony with the robe that was leant to her from Bulma, he took a deep breath and made his way to the door. The wind fluttering curtains out of the building.
"Woman." He piped up, clenching his shaking fists.
Carlie turned eyes wide and tilted her head. Shes not wearing glasses. Its a new sight for the prince and certainly for her. She was so interested in seeing him she had a look of childlike wonder.
"Hey Vegeta, i was just about to come look for you, wanted to show you this." She pointed to her face, she was focused on him for the first time without glasses and Carlie simply loved it.. she welcomed him on the balcony and they stood side by side, Vegeta kept his place and stared at her gathering his thoughts and how to say it.
"Carlie. You know i didn't mean to do what i did… in any way shape or form id never lay a hand on you maliciously.. what I'm saying is that-'' she cut him off with a finger to his lips silencing the bumbling prince.
"My prince doesn't stutter over his words. That tells me your sorry and that's all i need." He sighed in relief and held her arms staring into her eyes. "No more glasses i assume?" He pushes bleached blonde locks out of her face to view her new look closer. "Nope! I have 20/20 vision now! The serum perfected it completely.. should be permanent. Like it?"
Vegeta tilted his face and hummed out a chuckle "Never mattered to me woman" he encircled his arms around her back and pulled her into a passionate hard kiss, nothing about Vegeta was soft or sweet. Let alone kissing or a rare apology. She welcomed it with a smile and running her fingers into his hair and deepening it. They were interupted by the sound of Bulma's voice. "No sex on my bed please you two." She casually asked of them making Vegeta smirk down at his woman beaming with relief. "No promises." Carlie held him close and looked at the blue haired engineer. "So i take it you both made up? Wedding still on?" "Plan never changed if im not mistaken" Vegeta grumbled and leaned back against the railing. "Good. I have food ready for everyone, Carlie go get dressed and meet us out there." She requested disrobing from the white lab coat. "Heard that. Im guessing hes not joining us again." She gulped, referring to Frieza. "No he had his fill already. Gets his food sent to his room." Bulma always had a way of making people comfortable in any bullshit situation. "Alright ill meet yall out there."
Carlie dressed in the little black dress she had as a backup in Bulmas closet. Simple and easy to slip on. Along with blue slides on so she wasn't barefoot going to the balcony. Upon closing the door she was met with the quiet halls of capsule corp she adjusted the dress and made her way down the hall only to be stopped by a familiar sight.
"Carlie!" Goku chirped coming from the direction of the lab. "Hey Goku! Long time no see. How you been?"
"Oh y’know all well and good, Vegeta told me that the serum was done so i stopped by and went into the lab to get the edible versions. Hope that’s no trouble!" He rubbed the back of his neck with a grin.
She laughed and walked in tandem with the larger saiyan to the balcony. "No no problem there. I should really come up with a name for it instead of calling it 'serum'." Goku made a thoughtful noise and tilted his head.
"Pick Me Up?" He said quite instantly. As if he already had a name for it. "Goku where the hell did you hear a phrase like that?" "Huh? Im not sure, really. Somethin i used to say with senzu beans or when I'm in a hospital bed, and believe me everyone needs a good Pick Me Up" Carlie snorted, Goku was that weird comic relief she needed in her life, some things are just too serious and then there was Goku to remind people there’s worse thing out there to be worried about then that on earth, the both of them stopped at the doorway from the balcony.
"It was strange actually, Frieza let me in the lab when i got there." Carlie raised a brow. "Really? Weird." She goes to the balcony with Goku who sees the smorgasbord of food. "Got room for one more?" "Yes Goku, we got more" Bulma says being served and points to Goku. The wait staff nods and goes back to fetch more food for the Saiyan with the biggest appetite and Carlie, who took her place beside the prince.
Something still sat heavy on her mind..
Why was Frieza in her lab?
Beneath the foundation of the corporation was Carlie’s Lab, and within that lab lay her best creation now being manufactured ten fold from enterprises, and Frieza was witnessing the young scientists' empire rise slowly. The former emperor strode around the lab and to a display with Frieza’s name scrawled across the drawn on screen. He smiled at the little things, whether it be penmanship or be it her dainty way she wrote in general there was something about her that Frieza enjoyed. Maybe it was her interest in him, maybe it was her kindness where others found reasons to hate him.
He didnt hate it. He felt the need to keep it to himself, to let it fester for his own amusement. He dipped his head forward and looked to a bag sitting erect on the floor.
Marked with the letter F. He tilted his head and picked it up, curious, he pulled out a large bottle of Merlot. “Hmm… Precious little thing remembered” He was caught off guard by the sound of someone opening the door to the lowermost part just before the labs door, he twitched upon hearing an unfamiliar voice.
He slid the wine back into the bag and placed it back to where he found it. Gliding with grace and absolute silence to the wall besides the door to listen. “Have you seen Norman anywhere?” A deep voice questioned, an older human physician.
“Havent since he sent another nude of Carlie..” “A real dime piece she is.. Too bad she still is with that weird alien.” “Ah come off it.. We have our Stache and she is none the wiser.”
Friezas fists clenched tight behind his back as he leaned against the wall, and a small knowing smile spread across his tightly lined black lips. Easy prey. He thought.
“So why are we down here, Nick?” the fat short one asked as the other fumbled with pills and some strange vial. “Easy, Bruce… were sabotaging her coffee so she can fall asleep faster, and were going to get that coding for that stimulant. Dumb bitch wouldnt know what hit her.” The door clicked open and In walked the Physicians, unbeknownst to them there untimely end would be at the hands of frieza.
At breakneck speed, Frieza apprehended both of them one by the neck with his tail and the other with his hand outstretched gripping the fat short ones neck, tight enough to hear a loud crunch before he could cry out for help.
“Tsk tsk tsk… you meddlesome little vermin were going to harm, Carlie” He lifted the one who was devising the plan into the air and tightened the appendage around his throat tighter, his fat friend gurgling almost unconscious on his own blood. His eyes flicked to the room in the back marked incinerator. Friezas devilish smile and bright vermillion eyes flickered from one physician to the other. “I do believe a swift punishment for disgusting little creatures like you are in order., wouldn't you agree, Bruce?” He walked forward with one hand anchored to his back as the door opened to him as if by will, the one being suspended in mid air was kicking and gasping, while the other was being dragged by his bottom jaw.
“This is a crude little disposal unit but it will do for now, besides trash belongs in the trash.” He tossed the fat one into the disposal pit with enough force to crack his head against the wall, the impact making a loud crunch; he gasped and twitched, spitting up blood on the ground, covered in charred remains of glass and waste.
Frieza brought the human to eye level with him and tilted his head as he stared in the face of sweet delicious fear, decadent tears and the succulent sight of sweat and blood shot eyes of the strangled doctor.
“Those pictures better be worth your utter demise. Too bad you wont be able to touch a woman as beautiful as her,” He took hold of his arms and with minimal effort popped both of his arms off his person like a doll, the dismembered doctor went wide eyed and cried before being flung head first into the same spot his partner hit.
“Now you wont have anything to touch her with….” He grinned laying the arms one over the other in the pit before clicking the incinerator activation button, sealing the two still living doctors away in a hard glass chamber door, and licks of fire erupting from the floor like hell reaching up to grab at them both. Frieza leaned against the wall marveling at the two doctors flop around like fish out of water… screaming silently for a help that will never arrive. Only to see their executioner behind the glass window beyond walls of rising fire, like the Devil himself.
“You will thank me, Carlie.” He assured sauntering from the room only to be met with a tiny floor cleaning robot that mopped up the floor of all the blood that soaked the linoleum floor. The perfect murder, and the best little cleanup crew and no one was any the wiser.
The emperor looked over at the bottle of wine left out for him then back to the screen with all the information of his physical genetic makeup, hes thoroughly impressed and with a swipe of his hand the coding goes over to the Saiyan genetic makeup with the green wording beneath it.
Perfected.
Frieza narrows his brows and hums. A tab opens with all the reasons why it is perfected. Most of these reasons are beneficial and to aid civilization as a whole. Both alien and human alike, and shes only put forth the battle stimulant. “This benevolent little woman is more creative then I expected.. Ohoho.. Your only peaking my interest further and further Carlie.”
He goes back to his own investigation and feels like hes seen enough. He’ll inspect his findings later, but for now he is in wait. The incinerator dings indicating its disposal has ended. Frieza grins maliciously. “Too bad that was much faster than anticipated…”
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Authors note: Thanks for waiting, works been crazy and havent had time to really get this done fast enough.
Taglist: @gallickingun @gonuclear @dragonblobz @dragonballcollector @lilfriezatyrant @mommaofthesayianguild @lizardhipsdontlie @supremeleadershitlord @thotful-writing @trans-asshole @memevember
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Dragon Ball Z Abridged - Episode 5 Review
Weird yet creative cutaways with strong overarching momentum.
Vegeta: Kills Bugs Dead opens with Goku finally reaching the end of Snake Way and the end of his journey to reach King Kai. The "nice job, jackass" as Goku literally craters into the planet sets the tone for this character in a big way. We're also treated to the incredible hijinks of Vegeta and Nappa.
[Title Sequence]
The pit-stop at Arlia at least receives a well-fitted and rather hilarious incarnation in this series. Even though the episode alternates its focus between King Kai and Arlia, I'm going to talk at length about Arlia first, and then move onto the King Kai segments.
I'm already going into this scene with some personal bias, as the "stronger guy playing along with the weaker guy because it'd be funny" trope is one of my favorites. And here we have exactly this. Vegeta and Nappa allow themselves to be captured and thrown in jail by the Arlians, where they meet an assortment of varied bug characters.
"Don't drop the soap" seems a little outdated for the modern style of TFS, as I feel they've leaned away from really older, cruder, less PC subject matters like calling someone retarded or insinuating prison rape, etc, but it fits Nappa's character completely as someone who is childish, crass, annoying for the sake of being annoying, and kind of a jerk. TFS has at least acknowledged the idea of possibly re-dubbing Season 1 with better equipment and perhaps a more refined script, and I dearly hope they keep this line unedited simply for the sake of nailing Nappa’s character identity.
After very nearly becoming a prison bitch, Vegeta decides he's had enough and promptly kabooms his way out of prison, landing smack-dab in the middle of a coliseum with the king of Arlia and his queen.
Nappa's blunt manner of introducing himself with simply "Hi." will never age.
It’s noteworthy that scene is also the first moment we get a good look at Vegeta as a character. Nappa was firmly established as the goofball from the start, but Vegeta's portrayal has more depth to it than could be conveyed in one-liners. Most of which is just sass, smug pride, and anger, but still.
It's also made clear very quickly that despite their bantering idiocy and gruff talk that they're not just for show, as Nappa no-diff's the thirteen elite Arlian guards with a massive shock wave that we later see level a city.
The king and queen are then more or less blackmailed into fucking. Nappa's eager fascination during this whole scene, the descriptions, visual edits and sound design are... Well, there's no other way to put it, it's fucked up. And it is hilarious! These are some very creative takes and decisions that were made entirely for internal experience of the show itself rather than as a parody of something else. Nappa even takes a photograph of it and sends it to Vegeta, since he's abstained from watching.
The comedic jabs don't stop there either, as Nappa tries to adopt the Arlian Rancor, but just like the kid who can't sit still, Nappa ends up breaking everything he plays with. Just as Vegeta is about to kill the king, rocks begin flying around the coliseum.
"What are you doing?"
Vegeta smirks. "I'm about to rock you, like a hurricane." And then boom, he hurls a rock into the king and kills him. Let's put a pin in that brick joke for later.
The long flashback scene doesn't play any music, which feels like a weird editing misstep after a series of home runs. They leave the planet as heroes, and Nappa sets Vegeta up for another predictable bit of mood whiplash, where Vegeta obliterates the entire planet. This is a huge escalation in power scale compared to everything else we have seen thus far. But then, this is Dragon Ball Z. We've already reached “destroying planets” at only the fifth episode, and everyone knows that it only goes well past 11 on the dial from here on out.
Granted, there is controversy in the official version about whether or not this would’ve been possible for Saiyan Saga Vegeta, considering Arlia is not canon, but I will not be considering that simply because DBZA contains no filler. Everything shown in the flagship series (not counting movies, DBZA Kai, or other shorts) is presented as being canon to DBZA. Also, Vegeta and Nappa are shown standing outside of their pods... in the vacuum of space. Series veterans will understand the massive can of worms this opens. I'm looking at you, Battle of Gods.
Once everyone, including the people that they JUST SAVED from a tyrannical king, have been reduced to space dust, Nappa closes off this scene nicely.
Now that we've discussed Arlia, let's focus on King Kai's role in the episode.
He explains to Goku that the planet has high gravity due to it's small size. Gregory from off-screen pipes up that this doesn't make any sense. I suppose "higher planet density" wasn't considered when writing the script - or perhaps it was, and they just decided that the easy answer wasn't the funniest one. Maybe “there’s an incredibly powerful pirate trapped in the core of the planet, which is why the gravity is so strong" was deemed better for a parody.
Honestly, I agree. Bojack works as an in-the-know reference, and is also fleshed out enough within the show that a newcomer would understand what's being discussed.
At the time of this review, the Bojack Abridged movie has not yet been released, but this is easily one of the longest brick jokes in all of DBZA, since Episode 5 was released in 2008 and it is my expectation that Bojack Abridged will be released within the year, leaving in its wake an 11 year old callback.
When King Kai asks Goku why he had been sought out, Goku explains that the Saiyans are coming to Earth and he requires training. Excellent fade-in and musical choice for Goku's uncharacteristically serious speech to King Kai.
Of course, it gets cut off at the peak swell with King Kai's indifferent "sure", leaving Goku gobsmacked.
In this series, King Kai's indifference and easy acceptance of Goku is attributed to the mind-numbing loneliness of only having a monkey and a grasshopper (cricket, sorry) to talk to for the last 500 years. Goku agrees, as he couldn't imagine anything more boring.
Major flash-forward to Namek. Just this scene being here at all is a major instance of a sequence break. But it is the introduction of another exceptionally interesting character in the series.
In terms of placement, this works as a long-term cutaway gag and reminiscent humor but not much else. We're still about half a season away from even considering Namek within the story, and the Saiyans haven't even arrived on Earth yet. The decision to slide this segment into the middle of this episode leaves some serious questions in my mind. But at face value, it's not that bad.
We're treated to a solid ten seconds of just staring at a massive fat green alien while birds chirp in the background. We hear a fish go "plonk!" in the water, and Lord Guru calls for someone named Nail, who looks a lot like Piccolo, to approach him.
"I saw a fish. That was all, you can go back outside now."
Definitely reinforces the point of boring. And while Nail is lamenting how boring his job is, Lord Guru tells him that he saw a bird and then promptly instructs him to "kick its ass."
But we’re not Nail, are we? We’re the viewer, and for some reason in the human mind, segments of extremely boring content usually pique our interest even more, because we have it drilled into our psyche that something is going to happen to break the tension sooner or later. That notion, the idea of slowly leaning closer to the monitor during the ten long seconds of a single still image, both conveys the boring tone of Namek, but also leaves the reader waiting in anticipation long enough for these dull scenes to just fade from their perspective and only latch onto the climatic moment. In this case, Guru commanding his apparent servant/bodyguard to assault a fish.
Not to overstate the obvious, but if it’s not the viewer’s own sense of tension and curiosity, it’s the pure absurdism and characterization of Guru that carries this scene. Disregarding source material, the design of Guru is meant to make him look old, wise and compassionate. Making him a lazy, annoying, verbally violent fatass is a near-infinite cash cow of writing material. It’s very difficult for me to judge this scene unbiased, knowing what comes next, but I imagine this would be a tryhard non-sequitur at worst, or promising potential for the future at best, with regards to this scene on its own, within the context of this episode and nothing more.
This episode also saw the genesis of perhaps not the first, but one of the most popular jokes in all of DBZA: Piccolo just jobbing the shit out of Gohan. DODGE! The scenes chosen and the delivery are outstanding compliments to this cheesy, simplistic joke. At this point I feel it's important to address that my editorial reflections or descriptions of these skits are relative to the context of these episodes. Even with the best of what this episode has to offer, we're still in peak 2008 internet humor era. The use of the word "outstanding" here will not carry a similar significance should I use it to describe a later episode.
Also the most random cutaway in all of DBZA, full-stop, is the brief look into the Hall of Justice, as Superman, Batman and Aquaman debate how they will stop the approaching Saiyans. This is humorous only in its absurdity, but less-endearingly than Guru was. Even if this scene makes zero sense, and relies upon an almost lower form of comedy than slapstick, Aquaman's voice is still just Krillin's voice. At least Superman and Batman sound different than the main cast. I'm really tempted to dislike this more, but the lackadaisical attitude and context of the whole scene definitely draws your eye more than a lot of the sensible but base-line plot progression of the story. I don't know if it belongs. To me, this scene just screams out that TFS is flinging spaghetti wildly at the wall, any and everything that might be funny, and while some of it sticks for one reason or another, (Jadoshin as Solid Snake, Antics on Arlia, even Guru's abrupt cameo) some of it flops. If anything, this show builds upon the corpses of its failures, and learns what works and what doesn't work surprisingly quickly.
Conclusion
Bizarre, but I liked it. Nothing in this episode that's bad is memorable. I might criticize the Namek cutaway for being out of place, but after letting this review sit for a few days, I just remember Goku saying "Man, nothing could be more boring than that!" and the immediate cut to Namek, and Nail pleading for the love of his sanity for something to happen. I might criticize the Justice League cutaway for being wildly out of the place, but I just remember "WHAAAAAALES!"
The meat of the episode was also decent, as it establishes Goku training under King Kai, and Piccolo's continued training of Gohan, the origin of DODGE! and the realization that Gohan can transform into an Ozaru. And you can nod your head and say that these may be necessary to the story all day, but they're also presented with... let's call it a clumsy grace. It's not bad, but it's miles away from official dub quality. This is in essence what the benchmark or gold standard was for early abridging back in 2008. The quality that TFS will continue to evolve the series into simply defies all logic or explanation, and in comparison makes these episodes look downright crude.
But let's face it, if Episode 1 began with a person lying on the ground and shot in both kneecaps, Episode 5 shows that same person at least hobbling down the street to the hospital.
It might not look pretty on the whole, and some of the dialogue might be clunky, but it seems like a lot of the flaws in this episode are simply caused by being products of their time.
Whether we're looking at Namek or The Hall of Justice, even the most outlandish oddities of this episode have still made me laugh. That's really the end of it.
Score: 75
Passing Thoughts
"I hope something exciting happens around here soon. I don't care what it is." - Ominous!
"You're surrounded by my thirteen elite *KABOOM* ...dead guards."
"SUMMON THE RANCOR!"
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The Character of Android 17
What’s up, friendos? So, Android 17 has been the toast of the town in Dragon Ball circles lately. Don’t get me wrong, that’s awesome and definitely deserved: the dude is unquestionably the MVP of the tournament of power, and if you try to say otherwise, I’ll… shrug and carry on with my day, I guess. You do you, I ain’t your dad.
No, but seriously, go to any discussion forum or comment section these days, and you’ll see plenty of people talking about how great and cool 17 was, and how he’s definitely shone more than any other during the current arc. I agree with the sentiment whole-heartedly, so we’re not here to discuss that, rather, I want to bring up some of the negativity that has come along with this newfound bump in fan appreciation.
See, where there’s hype, there must be backlash, and 17 has been subjected to plenty of that. With every more popular member of team universe 7 to be eliminated before him, the number of people bitter at his continued presence grew. This is fine, in and of itself, for the ‘not your dad’ reason I listed above, but there are two specific complaints I occasionally hear about 17 that I just can’t co-sign for you, and I decided to write this up to address them.
The first is: “He’s not even the same character he was! This guy doesn’t act anything like 17/has nothing in common with his DBZ incarnation”
the second is: “He’s boring/blank/bland! He has no personality.”
Since I’m one of the five people worldwide who listed Android 17 as his favorite character ever since the good ole days of Z, I figure the least I can do is roll up my sleeves and share some of the reasons I disagree with the above, as well as express how I see his actions and arc. We’ll go through the timeline of events he participated in, and see if we can’t parse together the delinquent he was with the chill park ranger he would become!
PART 1: A Reminder of the Android’s Origin and the Future Timeline
So, Android 17 was originally Lapis, a teenage delinquent who would often go out and rabble-rouse with his sister and his droogs, playing their rap music too loud, wearing pants with the waistband far lower than the waistband of pants should be allowed to hang in civilized society, and other stuff like that, I assume.
Unfortunately for the duo, Dr. Gero was about, looking for a team of teenagers with attitude he could convert into an armada of godless killing machines. One might feel prompted to ask why Gero intended to create machines so powerful that he couldn’t control them uness they wanted to listen to his orders, but sought the demographic of humans statistically least likely to ever listen to what an old man has to say to them to be the vessels of those machines, but this isn’t an essay about Gero being a silly, silly man.
Rather, the salient point to take out of the backstory we’re given is that 17 and 18 started out with a chip on their shoulder and a lack of love for people or society. We don’t get any info on their home life or their parents, but based on their choice of hobby, and the ease with which they were spirited away, we can safely assume there were no happy beginnings here. From the moment they became relevant to the universe of DB they were already in a position to hate society; being kidnapped by a madman and turned into cyborgs specifically to vent THAT madman’s hatred of society only exacerbated this, resulting in a mixture that basically burned the world to the ground.
Fast forward to some time later, and humans are an endangered species, Gohan has been disarmed, and Trunks has been brought to the verge of death. We don’t really learn a lot about the personalities of the future incarnation of the androids. They behaved like a pair of psychopathic children, destroying the world less because of any deeply held hatred or bloodlust, but more because it sounded like a fun idea and what else were they gonna do with their weekend? They share some elements of their character with the versions of themselves who would be proper cast members, which I’ll get to later, but for the purposes of the story they were more of a force of nature than anything.
It’s too late for the future… but not the entire multiverse! So Trunks head back to the past, but hold up, Jack! Would his warnings prove accurate?
Part 2: Android 17 in DBZ
The first thing we learn about android 17 is that he’s a troll. Seriously, not only is he quite sardonic in his disposal of his stepdad, the first interaction he has with the Z warriors, his nominal enemies, is to beckon Krillin over to him, then abruptly stand up and frighten him. No end game, no intent to harm, he just really wanted to screw with the poor guy. He’s a gadfly who frequently says and does things for no greater reason than to see the reaction they provoke in others.
The second thing we learn is that he shares his future incarnation’s flippant, whimsical attitude, but to a less morbid extreme. He makes short work of the assembled heroes, but treats it like clearing the arcade mode of a fighting game, stopping at the knockout and expressing a hope they may be more fun if he encounters them again. When 18 steps up to fight Vegeta, 17 reacts to it like a child whose sister beat him to calling dibs on the front seat during a car trip.
The third thing we learn is that he is one cocky little punk. He refers to himself as the ultimate warrior on multiple occasions, brags constantly about himself, and treats the notion of anyone being his rival, much less stronger than he is, as a notion so ridiculous that it doesn’t even deserve his contempt.
These three traits are important because they remain central to his disposition even as a grown man, albeit to a far more muted and mature degree, even though his personality does change quite a bit during the ten years we don’t see him. It may be tempting to say that being eaten by a bug man was what served to put a sock in his constant “I’m the best in the world” talk, and that certainly did play a role in who he became, but I would say his character started to change a little bit before that: during his fight with Piccolo.
The thing about 17’s strength is that it has nothing to do with martial prowess. As a delinquent he certainly had experience in street fights, but he never did any formal training, or did anything that would require effort or discipline. When Gero made 17 an android he made him so strong that he could crush anyone he encountered, but it was just that, raw strength. It had no technique or prowess behind it.
As the fight progresses, we see 17’s attitude toward Piccolo change subtly. At the start, he’s just a toy to be played with, another level in his game to be cleared and forgotten about, but as it progresses Piccolo does something that 17 had never encountered before: he holds his own. With skill and grace, he matches every move 17 has, blow for blow. In the past 17 had had many fights as a bully and a thug, but this was the first time in his life he did battle as a warrior, and he liked the feel of it. He expresses a kind of respect for piccolo as their fight reaches its end, even though it is couched in his trademark, planet-sized, ego. It was an encounter that took the first step toward redeeming him, and setting him down the path we would see him walking in Super.
...and then a bug ate him… Yeah, it’s hard to stay arrogant after you’ve been eaten by a bug, so that helped too. My big sticking point is that it’s often assumed that if Cell hadn’t screwed up the flow of events, the modern androids would have eventually became their future selves, but I think there’s a chance for their redemption even without Cell, provided at some point in time 18 meets Krillin and 17 fights the fused Kami-Piccolo.
Part 3: 17 in DBS and the Tournament of Power
Ten years pass, Android 17 is, if not in his thirties, pushing up close to ‘em for certain. His personality is now quite placid, and he’s a family man, carrying on 16’s spirit by protecting nature, and carrying on the fire that Piccolo lit in him a decade ago by training constantly to improve his technique. Now, I maintain that his character is still consistent, but does he BEHAVE differently now? Of course he does. Look, I don’t know how old you are, reader person, but I promise you, when more than a few seasons separate you from your teenage years, you will look back at who you were as a teenager, and the things you did… and you will cringe. Hard. Heck, I’m in my thirties now, and I look back at the things I said and did in my early twenties and cringe, sometimes. Growing older is a game of constantly realizing how ridiculous you used to be and hoping you’re less ridiculous now.
So yeah, he is more mature, but the three elements that are the center of his character are intact. He is a merciless gadfly throughout his entire run in Super. He exchanges affectionate barbs with his sister when he meets her daughter, he teases Krillin’s nervousness around him, despite expressing to Goku that he was fond of the man, and considered him his brother, and in general never openly acting like he took anything he encountered as seriously as he really did.
He still tends to treat everything around him like a giant game, made most evident by all of his interactions with Universe 2, but most of all with Ribrianne and her Kamikaze Fireballs, playing the role they provided him with abandon and gusto- when Ribrianne accused him of being a villain from some kind of magical girl anime… he promptly starts hamming it up and acting like a villain in some kind of magical girl anime!
He’s no longer the loud mouthed braggart he was as a teenager, sure, but his faith in himself remains strong. It’s just that it’s no longer childish, absolute arrogance, and instead has been tempered into a realistic confidence in his own abilities. When faced with insurmountable odds, he remains calm and studies his situation carefully, never moving recklessly, but also never losing faith in his ability to eventually find a way to overcome the situation he finds himself in.
The tournament of power DOES introduce an important arc to 17’s character, though, and it’s a surprisingly subtle one. Sadly, I’ve already typed up 2,000 words on the subject, so I’m going to go ahead and stop here for now. This is how I perceive the character, and why I like him so much. If anyone wants me to, I may type up the second essay on 17 I have rattling around in my head sometime, and reveal how 17 accomplishes something impossible: makes JIREN an interesting antagonist.
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Since I decided to cancel this on Patreon, I’ve decided to make a Special Edition version for everyone, with week early access for Patreon Supporters. See the sudden end, why it ended and what could have been...
As soon as they stepped into the portals, the teams found themselves in a box. To the sides of them, are other boxes. Eight of them are in big boxes like the one they are in. Ten are in between the bigger boxes. They're a lot smaller, looking like only one person is within them. And right below them is a realization. They're in space and they are surrounding some sort of planet. It was a planet they have never seen before. Like a hodgepodge of other planets merged together. Before they can study the location, the Cosmic Vizier appeared in front of them.
Cosmic Vizier: Welcome to, for a lack of a better word, Battle World. It is here you all will be scattered across the planet. We recommend that you face anyone you see, because who you may recognize may not be a person you know.
GLAB: What does it mean by...
Before anyone can figure out the message, the platform below them fell. And before any of them can react, they are teleported towards the planet, each one in different locations. Kev'n finds himself in a familiar looking setting. It is in a forest like on the planet he calls home. It seems when they said all will be scattered, they included teams. Luckily for Kev'n, the plan was simple: gather as many as you can to fight this entity and save everyone. And to his luck, someone was next to him. It was a giant creature that looked like a Bull. It is the Stardroid known as Uranus.
Kev'n: Greetings! I am Kev'n: a Green Lantern of Sector 1014.
Uranus, instead of being surprised like Kev'n expected, cracked his knuckles instead.
Uranus: So you're the first opponent I have to stomp.
Kev'n: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! We don't have to fight! My boss was thinking we can all team up and fight this entity that is forcing us to fight!
Uranus pretends to think about it.
Uranus: We could do that...
Uranus then prepares to grab Kev'n.
Uranus: Or us Stardroids can smash all of you and get that wish for Lord Wily Nega!
Uranus tries to grab Kev'n, but the Green Lantern flies away.
Kev'n: You're going to regret messing with a Green Lantern!
Kev'n forms a giant hand, planning to use it to grab his attacker. But to his surprise, he seems unable to grab his opponent. He's just standing there, but he goes through the hand like if it wasn't there.
Uranus: You're using Energy Weapons? On a Stardroid? As if it wasn't easy before!
Uranus grabs a big chunk on the ground and lifts it over his head. He then proceeds to throw it towards Kev'n. The Green Lantern dodges it, still in the air and trying to avoid wasting his Ring Energy. He then tries to contact the others.
Kev'n: Everyone! This is Kev'n! Stardroids are a threat! I repeat! Stardroids are a threat!
Uranus: You got that right!
To Kev'n's surprise, the Stardroid was right on top of him. Uranus managed to grab Kev'n and brings him back to the ground. Uranus' landing smashes the ground, but it doesn't seem to bother him. He then begins to squeeze Kev'n. To the Lantern's surprise, no matter how much energy he puts as armor, the Stardroid is still squeezing him like if he wasn't wearing anything. In a last desperate action, Kev'n uses the ring to dig a hole under one of Uranus' feet. The surprise of losing balance allows Kev'n enough room to escape. Kev'n was thinking of escaping, but he knew that if he was from one dimension, then there must be 9 other Stardroids in this event. And if the Lantern Rings can't work on one, it must be powerless against the others. He must find a way to defeat
It was at this time My Grandmother (from my father’s side) passed away. It killed my motivation for making stuff in 2017 which not only included my normal events but also this story. While the rest of the story will remain incomplete, I do have the ideas still.
First, the fight between Kev’n and Uranus will have Kev’n come out victorious. Since Energy attacks don’t work, Kev’n has to use his training and better knowledge of a forest to use it to his advantage. But his victory doesn’t mean Uranus was eliminated, it only mean that he could escape and give a proper warning to others.
In between interactions I have planned, I was going to allow Patreon to select who should meet who. Letting them participate in the creation of the story. As for interactions I did have planned, here are some of them I intended to do before I ended the story...
Goku meeting Superman, and not realizing it is Superman. So when Superman asks Goku to help him, Goku agrees. When he does find out that this is the one the internet keep asking him about (thanks to Sonic fanboying when meeting him) Goku bugs Superman to fight but he refuses.
Kari Vs Red Lantern Gilda. One is a Red Lantern known for Rage, and the other is essentially my version of Vegeta. So these two are the most rage influenced of my collection. In the end, Kari would win since unlike Gilda, she doesn’t have to hold back her Rage to prevent going berserk.
Starlight meeting the Undertaker. Since he has been working to get Twilight into his group, he’ll notice how similar Starlight is to her as well as how more likely she would have been a member of the Ministry. He would question if he should focus on getting a Starlight over a Twilight, but in the end decides that Twilight is the better option of the two.
Pretty much many of the good guys would be meeting each other, all with the same plan of teaming up with each other. GLAB would meet Ristar, Sonic one of his many copies, Wonder Woman and Samus, whole bunch of them.
Jason was going to fight someone, that is for sure. Sadly never figured out who.
It will all end with every Hero gathered, all but the Undertaker defeated for villains, and them confronting the Cosmic Vizier only to find out he had no real power and just wanted to see all of them fight each other.
And it’ll end with everyone returning to their world none the wiser.
Next week, I think I’ll continue this trend but do an in-canon story with the PPGs.
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John Lewis Ad - Merry Christmas Gine
A/N:-
I guess this is kind of a John Lewis advert as well, but not so much. I just love Gine and the idea of this fic… had to write it XD The song I chose though, All I Want For Christmas Is You by Mariah Carey… I know it’s too upbeat for this, but I really liked the lyrics so… just imagine a slow version I guess lol (and if you know of a slow cover please tell me about it!)
Also, apologies if anybody is OOC… I’m not much interested in saiyans anymore so I don’t write them often, but I really like Gine so I wanted to do a Christmas thing for her. Hope it’s okay…
xxxxx
All year… all goddamn year Bardock had been keeping out of trouble in Hell, which wasn’t as easy as it sounded for him. He was passionate, and willing to fight for his beliefs… which meant he was willing to fight. Over pretty much anything. He wasn’t as hot-headed as some of his comrades though, and with the large helping of willpower that he had he’d managed to hold his tongue and keep his clenched fists at his side, whenever he got the urge to knock somebody out. He hadn’t even so much as dished out a black eye. It wasn’t like him… but his patience and self-control had been worth it. Now he’d earned a Christmas present. Well… kind of. Bardock had actually wanted a power up. As a new incentive to become good, pure souls, Hell had agreed to give a present to anybody who behaved themselves all year. One possible choice of presents was a power up. It wouldn’t be much, but it would be enough to let Bardock rule over some of the stronger guys down here. Raditz was entitled to one as well – actually, Bardock was surprised at that. Raditz was even more impatient and hot-headed than him, but somehow he’d managed to keep out of trouble as well. So, he’d earned… something. Not a power up. That was what he wanted, but it wasn’t what he was getting. Not after talking to his father. Not after Bardock had decided to give in to his rare urges to do the nice thing instead of the fun thing. The truth was… neither Raditz nor Bardock were using their present on themselves. Which, ironically, would probably earn them an even bigger one next year. That wasn’t really Bardock’s intention, though. … Not that he’d turn the offer of a really good power up away.
The truth was… Bardock was a jerk most of the time, but a decent guy to people that mattered to him. … Not that many people mattered to him. He had his friends that he played around with, he had his son Raditz, who he kind of just left to do his own thing… They got along but they weren’t that close. They never had been. He technically had a second son as well. Bardock didn’t think about him much… but his mother did. Kakarot mattered to her, and Gine mattered to Bardock… So, here he and Raditz were. Surrendering the power ups they’d been biting their tongues and holding their fists in place all goddamn year for, just because it was the nice thing to do. …. She’d better fucking appreciate this.
King Yemma stared at Bardock and Raditz sceptically, as they stood before him, reluctantly offering up their presents. Raditz was more reluctant than Bardock. Bardock had needed to make several threats to get him to do it, actually… It was too bad his present alone wasn’t enough. He didn’t even know if the two together would be enough. But, if they weren’t… well, he had nothing to lose. Raditz was probably hoping King Yemma would say no…
“A day on Earth, hm?” King Yemma glared down at them. “You think it’s wise to grant that to anyone in Hell?”
“I think it depends on who you grant it to.” Bardock shrugged. “I mean… I wouldn’t recommend giving it to Frieza, not while there are still planets in the universe.”
“Hm.” King Yemma grunted. He moved his eyes to Raditz. “And this is what you want as well?”
“Tch. No, I think it’s a stupid idea.” Raditz huffed. “She doesn’t even know him – and she shouldn’t anyway because he’s a jerk. If we do this, she’ll only end up disappointed, and I’ve wasted my present.” He felt his father’s cold glare on him, and he moved to meet Bardock’s eyes. This was a stupid idea. Raditz didn’t want to do it, and he didn’t mind making his feelings known! He didn’t give a shit what his father thought! … But still, that glare made him back down. Not because he was scared of his father, just because… fuck. His old man was right. Fucking jackass. “But…” Raditz sighed, and looked up at King Yemma. “She won’t believe he’s a jerk until she sees it for herself. Maybe if we do this she’ll shut up about him.” He looked away, and grunted. “Anyways, it’s what she wants. I always heard she gave me what I wanted all the time…”
“Yeah, she did.” Bardock snarled. “She was always way too soft on you.”
“Whatever…” Raditz mumbled.
King Yemma stared at the two of them, and then turned his attention towards Fortune-teller Baba, who was floating behind them on her crystal ball.
“What do you think?” He asked.
“I think two saiyans doing something nice is a rare sight.” Baba answered. “We should take a photo.”
“Hm.” King Yemma smirked. He leaned back in his chair, and went quiet for a moment while he thought about it… and then he sighed. “Alright.” He said. “But only because it’s her, and Gine isn’t a bad soul. I know she won’t do any harm up there – I wouldn’t let either of you two have a day’s pass.”
“Thanks.” Bardock spat.
“Nor would I let anybody else in Hell do it. I’m only letting her because she doesn’t actually belong down there – she’s only there because she refused to go to Heaven without any of you.” He narrowed his eyes at Bardock. “But, a day is too much. Twelve hours, and you both lose your presents.”
“What!” Bardock cried.
“Twelve hours? That’s ridiculous!” Raditz barked. “I almost killed myself this year! Do you have any idea how hard I had to work to earn that present? And all you’re giving me is twelve fucking hours?”
“Take it or leave it.” King Yemma shrugged. “You haven’t told her about it, have you? You could always take your offers back.”
“Fine then, I’ll –”
“No.” Bardock interrupted his son, glaring sternly at him. He stared up at King Yemma, and snorted. “Thirteen hours.”
“… You take the piss.” King Yemma growled, and Bardock smirked.
I don’t want a lot for Christmas
There is just one thing I need
I don’t care about the presents
Underneath the Christmas tree
“Miss Gine?”
“Yes?”
“Come with me. You’re going to the surface for thirteen hours.”
“What? But – but why? What did I do?”
“Oh – no, it’s nothing bad. It’s a Christmas gift.”
“But I asked for new boots…”
“Uh… it was a… donated Christmas gift. Ask your family later. Now come on, thirteen hours starts now.”
The scene played before Gine over and over again as she stood on Earth, in the world of the living, her new boots making footprints in the snow. It was cold outside… she wasn’t really dressed for this weather, but she didn’t care about that. She was still in shock over this. She couldn’t believe… this was happening. She couldn’t believe where she was. She was nervous, and hesitant… She stood outside his house for ten minutes, suppressing her ki, before she finally built up the courage to knock on the door.
I just want you for my own
More than you could ever know
Make my wish come true
Knock knock. Click. The door to the Son house opened, and a bewildered looking Goku stood there, staring down at a woman who was clearly freezing cold. Jeez… what was all this about? He was only expecting Gohan and Videl…
“Uh…” Goku sweat dropped. His instincts told him to invite her in immediately before she froze to death, but in the back of his mind he was wondering if he should at least ask her who she was first. She obviously had the wrong house… “I – can I help you?”
He watched her reaction. She didn’t say anything at first. She opened her mouth like she was going to speak, but then she started to tremble… Oh, no! “Hey!” Goku adjusted himself, ready to grab her if she collapsed. “Come inside, you’re freezing – whoa!” His eyes widened and he jumped back as the woman leapt at him, locking her arms around him like she was scared he’d disappear. Then, she started to cry. Not just cry… wail. Really loudly. Goku had never heard anything like it. It was pure, unstifled emotion. He could feel the heat of her tears before they even fell onto his Christmas jumper. Within seconds he was soaked. What… the hell…? “Um…” He uttered awkwardly, unsure of what to do. “It… it’s okay…?” He placed his hand on her back, which made her tighten her grip even more. The sobbing grew louder, and Goku just about managed to hear another woman’s voice over it. Oh, crap…
“Goku!” Chichi screamed from behind him. “Who is that?”
“I – I have no idea!” Goku protested, staring at her. “She just – came to the door and –” He stopped, when he looked back at the woman, and noticed something brown and furry behind her. She had a tail…? Wait… was she a saiyan…? Now that he noticed, she was wearing armour. She certainly looked like a saiyan… “Um…” Goku tensed slightly, and a sharp coldness struck his heart. Was she related to him…? Did he have an evil sister?
The woman’s sobbing finally started to soften, and she raised her head to look at him. Her lip quivered as she stared at him, she was clearly trying to talk but she couldn’t. She was too much of a wreck. Then, Goku found himself overcome by the strangest sensation. Her energy… she’d stopped suppressing it, and it felt… kind of familiar, actually. Sort of… warm. Then Goku noticed something about her face, and his lips parted just a little, the breath slowly escaping his lungs. She… had his eyes…
All I want for Christmas is you…
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For the Dragonball numbered asklist, four and ten?
I got 10 in another ask, so I'm gonna save that one for later, just in case this one runs long.
4. Who is your least favorite character?
Dolltaki. No contest.
I'll see people talk about their least favorite characters, or characters they hate, and sometimes I question their reasoning. They'll be like:
"I love Dragon Ball, but gosh, I sure do hate Vegeta, because he's too overrated!"
or
"'Sup, guys, I'm a dudebro and I think DBZ is hella rad, but I hate that soycuck Yamcha, because he loses all the time!"
or
"Yes, I do love Dragon Ball, or Doragonboru as it was originally known. However, I am quite dismayed by Seru, or Cell, because it is well understood that Toriyama-sensei wanted to end the series after Frieza, and the Androids saga saw a marked decline in the comic overtones that made the story such a huge success."
or
"I enjoy Dragon Ball, but? Goku? Is stupid? Please get him out of the story uwu."
First of all, I don't get these kinds of people. I'm not trying to be a gatekeeper here, but this is like saying you love salad but hate lettuce. And sure, maybe it's possible to thread that needle, but maybe it's more likely that you need to rethink your position. You don't have to like Vegeta, and a lot of fans don't, but I don't think he's going away any time soon. Disliking the major characters is sort of like those people who think ketchup is too spicy, because they don't realize they're allergic to tomatoes. I rag on Frieza a lot, sure, but I can't deny the guy's appeal, and it's a lot of fun to watch him get beat up. If you're a Vegeta-hater that enjoys watching him lose, then great, you're going to get a lot out of this franchise. But if you resent Vegeta for taking up screentime that should be devoted to Launch, then I think you need to consider that this may not be for you.
Second of all, the people who pick major characters as their least favorite probably aren't looking hard enough. Dragon Ball GT, for example, is a treasury of shit-tier characters. If your top five list of worst DB characters doesn't include some GT guys, then you must have never watched GT, and I can absolutely understand that decision.
I've never seen full-throated support of Dragon Ball GT. People will argue over whether OG Dragon Ball is better than Z, but you never see anyone seriously suggesting that GT is better than both of them. At most, people will say "I'm a GT apologist, so..." or "Sure it has its flaws, but I kind of liked..." GT is always getting damned with faint praise. The big line I always see is that it had "some good ideas, but they were poorly executed."
Here's the idea behind Dolltaki: He looks like the skinny grey version of Majin Buu with a dumb toupee, and he turns people into dolls so he can feed them to a robot that somehow transmits energy to another robot, who feeds that energy to a slightly better villain. When he turns Pan into a doll, he loses all perspective, and becomes obsessed with dressing her doll-form up in different outfits. His boss orders him to feed Pan-doll to the robot, but he refuses to do it, because that's how infatuated he is with a doll he made of a nine-year-old girl.
The thing is, GT only ran for 64 episodes. Dolltaki was in five of them. And during that run, he was presented as the main antagonist. Sure, he was working for Dr. Myuu, but that conflict doesn't get set up until the next arc. Dolltaki is like a General White or Zarbon kind of figure. Except White and Zarbon are pretty cool for the limited time they're in the story. Dolltaki looks and acts and carries himself like a total dipshit, and he's the main boss of his run, so it just makes Goku and Trunks look like dipshits for having so much trouble with him.
I haven't even gotten into how creepy Dolltaki is. Like, what were they thinking with this guy? I guess he's supposed to be a parody of nerdy collectors who get way too into their Sailor Moon figurines, but how does that translate into a Dragon Ball villain? Also, when you depict a character like that and show long lingering scenes of him sweet talking a doll and getting excited about taking off its clothes, that starts to say a lot more about your show than whatever the character was supposed to be satirizing.
So maybe someone on the GT production staff had a weird fetish. That's a terrible reason to create a character like Dolltaki, but the alternative might be worse: There is no reason, they just slapped all this together to meet their deadlines, never once considering how much it sucked. A lot of GT feels that way to me, so maybe this Dolltaki is no different.
But man oh man does Dolltaki suck. He's cringy, and I don't mean that in a post-ironic way. Once upon a time, the word "cringe" actually meant something, and it was reserved for things like writing an entire professional resume in My-Little-Pony-speak, or comparing fandom discourse to real-world atrocities. Dolltaki is that kind of cringe. He serves no narrative purpose, except to make the line from the Para Para Brothers to Dr. Myuu more convoluted. So all the time he spends creeping on an immobilized Pan is just offensive drivel. It's the worst kind of filler, the kind that makes you regret watching he show in the first place. And that's why Dolltaki is my least favorite character.
But sure, Bulma is kind of pushy and obnoxious sometimes, so I can see why some people would pick her as their least favorite. 🙄
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Out of Time Chapter 13
Chapter 13 from my B/V fic Out of Time is up!
Out of Time Summary:
Vegeta and his eight year old son Trunks go back in time to warn the past of the Androids’ arrival. When the machine needs repairing the two of them are stuck. At least the past has good food! There’s just one problem… Bulma begins to fall in love with Future Vegeta, instead of his younger self. Can Vegeta ensure his son’s birth, defeat the Androids, and save the world?
Chapter 13:
Goku felt the young Vegeta’s ki flare as he blasted into the air, making a crowd of people around him shout and gasp in surprise. Goku frowned in disappointment at the man’s early departure, although to be fair it was surprising that he’d turned up at all. His rival didn’t enjoy social occasions and the crowds of this place can’t have been enjoyable for his heightened senses. There were people everywhere, filling every space of the park’s winding pathways, and even Goku’s temples ached from the noise. The boys seemed to be enjoying it though. They danced through the crowds like every other child here, as if they didn’t have a care in the world. He knew Trunks’ childhood had been a tough one, but so had Gohan’s over the last year at least, and seeing his serious son smiling and laughing was something of a relief.
Read Out of Time on FFic or keep reading below.
He could only begin to imagine how Future Vegeta must feel. Gohan had managed to have four years of peace before being thrown into the deep end of training and aliens and death. Trunks had been living in a world where surviving each day was a miracle since he was a baby. As a father that must have killed Vegeta inside.
Goku’s gaze focussed on the older Vegeta and the woman walking next to him. Bulma kept glancing surreptitiously at Vegeta in a manner that reminded Goku of how she used to look at Yamcha. He’d been surprised at first when he’d learnt that the Vegeta of the future had made a life with Bulma and even had a son, but the more he thought about it the more sense it made. Those two were both stubborn, fiery and fiercely determined in everything they did. Together they would have made quite the power couple.
He couldn’t help but feel concerned about what the changes to this timeline would mean for the Saiyan prince. Despite the violence of their meeting and their rivalry, Goku liked the man - both the younger and older versions. He only had a vague understanding of what Vegeta’s life had been like growing up under Frieza, but he knew that the sheer force of will that had helped the Saiyan survive and come out the other side with his sanity intact had to be incredible.
After meeting the future version of Vegeta though, it was obvious that Bulma had made a positive impact on the man. Future Vegeta was less volatile, even more focussed, and just as determined as ever. Honestly, Goku was shocked that Vegeta hadn’t defeated the androids in his own time. His only guess was that Vegeta spent too much time protecting his family and finding them food that he didn’t have the ability to focus on his training or ensure he ate enough nutrients to power his Super Saiyan abilities. Maybe after some time here, being well fed and getting enough sleep the androids wouldn’t be a problem.
Or maybe they were really that strong.
Goku swallowed hard and shook his head to get rid of the swirling thoughts of impending doom. As he saw Bulma not-so-casually brush her arm against Vegeta’s he decided that he had to do something to direct her towards the younger version of the man. The young Vegeta needed her, not this Vegeta, and she had to realise that she needed him too.
“Can I get cotton candy, Papa?” Trunks stopped dragging him through the park to stop at a fork in the path where one footpath diverged towards a group of food stalls. “Gohan says it’s really good.” The boy’s wide eyes stared up at his father and he hopped up and down in excitement, his lavender hair bouncing and falling in his eyes.
Vegeta sighed to himself and rubbed his temples. They’d only spent a few days in this time and already his child was spoilt. “We have a whole picnic packed,” he grumbled.
“Cotton candy isn’t food,” Kakarot said, directing his wide smile at Vegeta. “It’s clouds of deliciousness. You won’t taste anything better in the universe.”
Vegeta rolled his eyes, sure that the clown was exaggerating, but he fished out some money that Mrs Briefs had given him for the occasion, then handed it to his son. He didn’t want to coddle the boy, but life hadn’t been easy for Trunks and now that they were somewhere safe Vegeta wanted to let the kid make the most of it. Even if they destroyed the androids in his time he was sure there weren’t any theme parks left.
Trunks snatched the note and ran off, waving it at Gohan who Trunks had been leading around the park with enthusiasm all morning.
“Wait for me!” Kakarot chased after the boys as they headed in the direction of the food stalls.
Vegeta felt a soft touch on his arm, and turned to look at the woman next to him.
“Are you okay?” Bulma asked, letting her large sunglasses slide down her nose to peek at him over top of them. Her hand remained on his bicep and Vegeta struggled to fight the urge to lean towards her and wrap his arm around his waist like he might have done if they were alone, and she was his Bulma.
“I’m fine,” he said, stepping away to follow the others. “Just tired.”
“Bad dreams?” Bulma asked.
Vegeta gave her a sharp look. Did she know about his nightmare?
“I don’t know if you still get them, but I know young you does…” She twirled a strand of hair around her finger and glanced at the ground.
Vegeta scowled and contemplated blasting the crowd of people between him and the food stalls. He hadn’t been aware that Bulma had known about his nightmares this early on. As far as he’d been aware she’d discovered them when he’d accidentally fallen asleep in her room after they’d slept together. Had she just made it seem that way, or was this time somehow different?
“Is it the androids?” Bulma asked.
“No.” Vegeta glowered at her, wishing that she’d drop it. Even if he’d irrevocably changed this timeline, he didn’t really want to kill the potential mother of his child in this time.
“I can give you something to help you sleep if you want. I have nightmares myself you know. Ever since Namek I-”
“Will you be quiet?” Tension flooded his body and Vegeta halted in the middle of the crowd and spun around to glare at her, clenching his fists. “Take a hint, woman. I don’t want to talk about it.”
Bulma’s cheeks flushed pink and her blue eyes narrowed into a sharp glare. “Now you sound like him.”
Vegeta blinked in puzzlement for a moment until he realised she was referring to his younger self. “I am him,” he pointed out, uncurling his hands and forcing his shoulders to relax.
Bulma shook her head, the glare fading from her eyes as she took on an expression his Bulma gave him whenever he’d done something she considered remarkable, like teaching Trunks to urinate in that damn ‘potty’ contraption. “You’re different.”
Shit. This was beyond bad. She was looking at him as if she… liked him.
“I’m not,” he said, swallowing hard to rid his voice of its waver. “I might have ten years worth of experiences on him, but we have both destroyed planets, killing billions, and we both have no moral qualms about killing again if it would benefit us. We are fundamentally the same, Bulma. Don’t think I am somehow different or better than my younger self just because I have act more human. I’m a Saiyan. I might hide it better because I’ve learnt that blending in benefits me, but I am still an alien.”
“But don’t you see?” Bulma said, touching his arm again. Her palm burned on his skin and gods he knew it wasn’t really her but her touch felt so good. “You are different because you care about someone other than yourself.”
“Bulma, you’re the only reason I-”
“Papa, want some cotton candy?” Trunks stood in front of him and Bulma, holding out a stick of something that looked like a large coloured cloud. The boy gave Bulma a sharp look before turning back to Vegeta with an eager smile on his face.
Bulma’s hand dropped away and his skin felt cold where she’d touched. He nodded at his son and pulled some of the fluffy food off his stick, feeling relieved at the interruption. This was getting messy. How was he supposed to encourage a relationship between Bulma and his younger self when all she saw was him?
“I don’t like it,” Trunks muttered, scowling in the direction of his father and Bulma.
“Don’t like what?” Gohan asked, his mouth full of cotton candy.
The two half Saiyans wandered through the park, just off to the side of Vegeta and Bulma. Kakarot had gone on the hunt for more food, and the blue haired woman seemed to be taking the opportunity to cosy up to Trunks’ Papa, much to the boy’s disgust.
“She’s all over Papa and he just… lets her.”
Gohan glanced at the pair and shrugged. “Isn’t she your mother?”
“No. My Mama is dead.” Trunks frowned, trying to figure out how to explain it. This time travel business was confusing. “I’m worried that I won’t be born in this time.”
Gohan’s eyes widened and he stopped shoving the cotton candy into his mouth. “Does that mean you’ll stop existing?” He reached out and jabbed Trunks’ arm with a finger. “Will you disappear?”
Trunks glared and Gohan. “Mama was sure that our time would continue to exist and that this time would end up being a different universe than ours.”
“What’s the problem then?” Gohan asked. “You’re not in danger.”
“That doesn’t mean I don’t want to be born in this time! But my young parents seem to hate each other. I don’t understand how they ever got together.”
Gohan grinned at Trunks, his smile pink and sticky from the treat. “My mother seems to hate Dad most of the time. Maybe arguing is an adult way of saying you love someone.”
Trunks pressed his lips together with a frown. “Or maybe it’s a Saiyan thing.”
“Our mothers aren’t Saiyans,” Gohan pointed out.
“No…” Trunks said slowly, considering it. “But Papa once said that Mama was the closest he would ever find to a Saiyan woman.”
“Maybe,” Gohan said, shoving the rest of the cotton candy into his mouth. “Want to go on that?” He tugged on Trunks arm to point at a ride that spun people around and flung them upside down.
Trunks frowned in irritation at having the conversation make such an abrupt turn, but he supposed he had plenty of time to think about what to do. And he would do something. He couldn’t let their turning up in this time stop him from being born.
Bulma leaned back on her hands and tilted her face to the sun, enjoying the warmth shrouding her. She sat on the grass since the picnic blanket was covered in food, and despite the noise from the people in the park and the clatter of rides, it was peaceful.
The others devoured everything in sight on the blanket, and for the first time she realised that the Vegeta from her time had left with them, but had disappeared early on. Bulma shrugged to herself. It was hardly surprising that he’d bailed. She knew how much he hated crowds.
Trunks appeared in front of her, casting a shadow over her face. “Young Mama?” He asked, placing his hands behind his back and smiling sweetly at her. “Will you come on that ride with me?” He nodded towards the parks largest roller coaster. It had several loops and the screams emanating from it sent shivers down her spine.
“Can I come too?” Gohan asked through a mouthful of food.
“I’ll go on it with you later,” Trunks said, flashing a glare in the other demi-Saiyan’s direction before settling his expression back into a serene smile.
“What about that one?” Bulma pointed to another ride with less twists and turns but Trunks pressed his lips together and shook his head.
“That one.” His eyes narrowed into a glare even though the smile remained on his face. “It will be fun. And I thought it might be nice to get to know you while we are waiting in line.”
Vegeta threw his son a frown from across the picnic blanket, but said nothing. When Bulma looked at him, silently begging him to find her a way out of it he just shrugged.
“Okay,” she said, then found herself being hauled to her feet and dragged through the crowds by the boy before the word had even finished leaving her mouth.
When they got into the line the smile completely dropped from Trunks’ face. His eyes narrowed and lips tightened and he looked so much like Vegeta that she could help but wonder if he got anything other than the hair and eye colour from her side of the family.
He didn’t say one word to her until they’d made it through the line and into a cart of the roller coaster.
“You are not my mother,” Trunks ground out as their harnesses automatically lowered over them.
Bulma blinked and sucked in a sharp breath. She’d been puzzling over why he wanted her to come with him on the ride, but she hadn’t expected him to say that.
“I know,” she started to say, keeping her tone gentle. “I never-”
“Stay away from my Papa.” Fire radiated behind Trunks’ eyes and Bulma gripped the handles on the harness tightly, her palms sweating. “Papa has a plan to get Mama - my real Mama - back, and I don’t need you butting in and distracting him.
“Trunks, sweetheart…” Bulma let out a small yelp as the roller coaster started to move, clattering slowly up a steep ascent. Kami, how high did this thing go? “I would never keep your Papa from your Mother.”
“I see how you look at him. I’m not stupid.” Moisture glistened in his eyes and he gripped his own harness handles “Do you not want me that much?”
“What do you mean?” Bulma asked, a heaviness hitting the pit of her stomach as she began to realise what it looked like to this little boy.
“You don’t want me to be born.” Trunks blinked quickly, as if fighting back tears, but none fell and he just looked angry. “You are chasing after my Papa instead of the man you are meant to be with so I will never be born.”
“That’s not true!” Bulma gasped as the roller coaster paused at the top of the track. “You are incredible. You’re brave and smart and handsome and any woman would be proud to be able to call you her son. I don’t want to jeopardise your life in this timeline but I… I just don’t feel that way about Vegeta - my time’s Vegeta - but your Papa… he’s…” She licked her lips, trying to work out how to explain her feelings for Future Vegeta, but before she could, the roller coaster stopped teetering on the track’s hill and plummeted down, making Bulma shriek and close her eyes.
The cart tossed her from side to side as it blasted around the corners, then looked upside down three times in a row. Just as Bulma had run out of breath to scream, the coaster halted abruptly, slamming her back into her seat.
Feeling nauseous, Bulma groaned and opened her eyes. They were back at the beginning and Trunks was glaring at her with the same expression he’d had before the coaster’s terrifying ride.
“I know,” Trunks said as the harnesses lifted. “My Papa is the best. But he always told me that you are the only reason he is like that.” He climbed out of the cart and to her surprise, offered her his hand to help her out too. “What do you think will happen to him in this time without you?”
Bulma sighed and looked at the floorboards, glad to be out of that ride “I don’t know,” she muttered, but the sinking feeling in her stomach made her realise that the kid was right. Vegeta had never had anyone care about him in his life. If she never grew to care for him, how could he understand what it meant, and how to care for others in return?
Vegeta hated this planet and everyone on it. This damn backwater mudball could burn for all he cared - let the androids come and scorch the earth, let them purge the planet like he had done to so many others. Gods, he might even join them just for the pure pleasure of seeing these disgusting human creatures scream in terror.
He’d spent the last few hours attacking the cliffs in a desert, watching the red rocks crumble as he reshaped the landscape. The area was uninhabited, unfortunately, although he supposed Kakarot and his older self would get all moralistic and come stop him if he began slaughtering humans.
The hours of smashing rocks into oblivion had done nothing to quell the rage bubbling through his veins. He wanted a fight - a real one. He wanted to rip someone limb from limb then feast on their flesh. He wanted…
Food. And a shower.
Vegeta landed on his balcony at Capsule Corp then stomped to the shower. After letting the hot water run over him until it turned cold, scrubbing his skin to get the grime of the cliffs, and under that the stench of humans off him. Feeling only slightly less like blowing the planet up, he headed straight to the kitchen to find enough food to make up for the delicious picnic he’d missed out on.
The smell of baking permeating from the kitchen quickened his steps and he strode in, glaring at Mrs Briefs as he seated himself on a bar stool at the kitchen counter then leaned on his elbows miserably.
“Vegeta! The others aren’t due back for a while. Did you leave early?” She gave him a wide smile as she pulled a batch of cupcakes out of the oven to join another batch already cooling on the counter.
Vegeta grunted affirmatively then let out a huff of air, scowling at the pink, yellow and brown baked goods only an arm’s reach away.
“Not feeling well?” The woman clicked her tongue sympathetically. “You do look a little peaky, dear. How about you eat some lunch then help me ice these cupcakes and try a few for me? I’m sure that will have you feeling better.”
Vegeta was in a bad enough mood to be tempted to tell her where to shove her cupcakes, and if anyone else had been in the room he probably would have. Deciding against it, he let out another sigh and stood up and joined her in the kitchen. He opened the fridge and wolfed down the pile of sandwiches she had premade, not even bothering to put them on a plate and sit down to eat. Once he’d finished, he turned to check how many batches she was planning on making.
He would have killed Mrs Briefs if she ever revealed his guilty pleasure, but prior to him blasting off into space to search for Kakarot, she’d convinced him to help her bake and to his surprise (and embarrassment) he found he enjoyed it. She never said anything about it to anyone either, and ever since whenever everyone else was out of the house he found himself in the kitchen baking sweet treats with her, his busy mind genuinely relaxed - a rarity for him.
He fetched the ingredients for a buttercream icing, grabbing some food colouring and grape food essence as well, then got to work. Mrs Briefs hummed away as she started on the mixture for a third batch of cupcakes, and he concentrated on making the icing consistency perfect. He settled on blue icing that faded into purple for the first batch, using a couple of different nozzles to get the effect he wanted. It was odd concentrating on such a mundane task, but he took pleasure in the art, and in sneaking bites of misshapen cupcakes in between.
Mrs Briefs, usually a chatterbox around everyone else, didn’t try to engage him in conversation. She never did during their baking activities. They worked in silence, creating a tower of treats for no purpose other than the joy of making - and eating - them.
When all the batches were baked and iced, the blonde woman made some tea, then brought the cupcakes and their teacups over to the dining table.
“If there are any left I’ll take them to my book club this evening,” Mrs Briefs said, settling into a dining chair swathed in sunlight. “But eat as many as you like, dear. Those ladies will barely touch them. They’re all too worried about their waistlines.”
Vegeta sat opposite her, nursing his teacup in his hands and feeling miles calmer than he had in months. He took her at her word and started making his way through the pile, savouring each bite despite the speed in which he ate.
Yes, he hated this planet and everyone on it, but even he had to admit that the food here was worth every minute of surviving on this hell hole.
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http://dudeblade.tumblr.com/post/159132433451/why-having-pyrrha-around-would-have-improved
Double feature baby!
I said I was doing this. Let’s go.
For starters, we would have interactions between Ruby and Pyrrha. Pyrrha. The girl that Ruby saw murder Penny right in front of her. This would lead into a forgiveness arc that could have been used to build tension. Pyrrha constantly trying to earn Ruby’s forgiveness. Because, while we (the audience) knows that Pyrrha didn’t do it intentionally, Ruby doesn’t know that. Much like how the world saw Yang kneecap Mercury, all everyone else saw was Pyrrha dismembering a poor, innocent girl that turned out to be a robot.
The show never went anywhere with that. There would be conflict. Like, people being distrusting of Pyrrha because of it, much like how the show missed an opportunity to use Yang’s kneecap incident as a means to further her character.
And if Pyrrha were a half-maiden, then when Ruby does forgive Pyrrha, it would incentivize her to learn how to control her Deus-Eyes-Machina. She wouldn’t want to hurt Pyrrha, and she would want to know how to control her power. And if Pyrrha wasn’t a half-maiden, then Ruby could learn for the sake of wanting to know how to stop someone if they were to go mad with power.
Plus, this way we could get some actual interactions between Nora, Ren, and Pyrrha. There was very little screentime of all of them actually interacting with each other, and this would be a good way to develop that.
Let’s go!
What else can you do besides “I killed Penny!” ‘Cinder made you do it!” “Okay!” Anything else would have been out of character for Ruby as she is a very understanding, kind person who is not likely to hold a grudge or even doubt, especially as Ruby knew that Cinder had done due to velvet’s clues form Coco, Yang’s recount and Emerald’s appearnece at the stadium. Anything else is Plot Induced Stupidity. It works with jaune because Jaune begged them to save Pyrrha, Ruby failed and now she has to deal with it as well as Jaune.
People probably wouldn’t care about a kneecap after MURDER and HUMAN ROBOTS and INVASIONS and NO COMMUNICATIONS! And if Pyrrha had lived and gone with them, they would attacked by everyone because Pyrrha would be accused of starting everything. Plus with everything that had happened to Pyrrha as well as the fact she doesn’t have Ruby’s mental strength, Pyrrha probably would have offed herself due to getting Jaune killed, Cinder’s rise to power, Penny’s demise and Beacon’s destruction. Poor girl is tough physically but not the toughest mentally. Even if she did survive, Grimm would always see her as an extra tasty snack. Jaune wors because he doesn’t have that much weight dealt on him so although he still isn’t strong enough to match Ruby, he can still tough it out.
The show wouldn’t allow that: Pyrrha would never get the power and Cinder would still rise up to power,meaning that whole plot point would be useless. And even she did have the power, it would be a Story Breaking Power and would sap the tension out of every combat scenario. It’s like plopping Goku down into One Piece and expect us to be scared for him when their attacks would so much as fray his clothes.
What is there really to say about them? Jaune hasn’t really interacted that much with Nora nor has he with Ren so it’d be the same ddeal as before except you know, suicidal Pyrrha.
I’m also not going to listen to a guy who wants Jaune to die painfully and not be mentioned ever again and has displayed a bias against male characters.
Next up, if Pyrrha were a half-maiden, then there would be VERY good justification for Tyrian taking an interest. Not to mention, there would be people who would probably recognize her, and probably treat her differently.
Y’know. So that way we would actually see her being treated differently, rather than her just saying it. I mean, c’mon! Teams RWBY and JNPR treat Pyrrha like a regular person. Which is the complete opposite of how Pyrrha claimed people treated her. Bonus points if everyone is afraid of her for what she did to Penny. Which makes her unapproachable, but not in the way that she so claims that has been happening to her for most of her life.
Again, Story Breaker Power. Part of the reason why I love the fact that the Silver Yes are mostly ignored.
Yeah, they would attack Pyrrha and further damaged her mental state to the point of suicide. Again, it doesn’t work and it’s way too dark for RWBY. This isn’t Evangelion.
Yeah, so did Jaune. In fact, they would treat her differently as she would be the most wounded by Jaune’s death, Pyrrha would get crushed and do I have to keep repeating this, I am getting pissed.
...So you want Pyrrha to suffer a fate worse than death and continue to break he more and more? You essentially want to pull a Shinji Ikari on her? ... Get out.
Thirdly, having to explain what happened to Jaune.
Look, at this point, I firmly believe that Jaune’s semblance is being the center of attention and/or being a creator’s pet. Jaune has yet to face consequences for melting Pyrrha’s stuff to upgrade only himself. But, imagine how much angst that could have been generated by having Pyrrha tearfully try to explain what happened to Jaune to his parents. That would have been some prime character development material right there.
Speaking of Jaune, we also would get to see how the others would work without his ‘strategies’ and have to fight without his ‘insight.’ This would force one of them to become the strategist and have to be the one to think on their feet.
No no, you want Jaune to die and never be mentioned ever again. If he is, you would say he’s a Mary Sue controlling everyone with his death. You just want him to die, plain and simple.
Yeah, they’d get killed and smashed to bloody pulp unless Silver Eyes or Maiden Power which means it devolves into a less interesting, more limited and just all around worse version of DBZ as it is seen by it’s haters.
Yeah...except Pyrrha would have never made it that far. She would have offed herself or gotten kill by every Grimm in a ten mile radius dog piling her. Aagin, you’d hurt Pyrrha just to kill Jaune.
And as @tumblezwei as said: Which is more hopeless? new guy getting killed or pro?
Lastly, this would mean that both Arkos and Lancaster gets sunk. But this isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It would immediately kill the “He’s a boy and she’s a girl” romance cliche. RWBY, a show that was built on cliches, killing the BIGGEST cliche of all.
Think about how that would have impacted audiences. It would be a show that never used that romance cliche.
And it could have been glorious.
*Grits Teeth* That’s not a cliché, that’s a sexuality. A sexuality is NOT a cliché.
You essentially just don’t want there to be heterosexuals in RWBY don’t you? Everyone must be LGBT right? Guess what? That just makes you seem high and might and does more to show you don’t deserve equality than you do thus damaging chances of equality.
Just as having a girl’s show with a weak male cast is just as bad as the inverse, having only LGBT ships is just as bad as only heterosexual ships! This just move sthe problem to heterosexuals and shows you don’t want equality, youw ant special treatment and no downsides. Equality means you have the same ups AND downs as very one else, you don’t just get the ups. RWBy is special in that the show can openly embrace due it’s freedom and all you’re doing is trying to tie it down. Screw off.
P.S. Your bias against Jaune and Taiyang yet not one word on Blake (Who had an entire episode to herself) and Raven (the actual bad parent of Yang) makes me think you just have a bias against males in RWBY so no opinion of yours can ever be trusted again on males.
But, alas… That is not what happened.
We didn’t get that.
Because Jaune is Miles’ self-insert. And having something bad happen to Jaune means that Miles would have to actually write it.
But, if someone wants to turn this idea into a fanfiction, go right ahead. Just shoot me a link when it gets posted. I’d sure as hell enjoy it.
If Jaune is a self insert, why is he often considered the weakest character? If he’s a self insert, why isn’t eh actually the focus of the show especially as Jaune got less focus as Monty had no control? If he’s a self insert, why does Miles openly insult Jaune?
You just want to attack everything you don't like so you slap buzzwords onto them that let you get away with it. Well too bad! That won’t work here!
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Rock the dragon I've been constantly thinking about Dragon Ball FighterZ ever since its E3 reveal. Arc System Works has found the perfect property to show off their engine, and I'm hoping it's going to be a great experience for Dragon Ball and fighting game fans alike. But what about the roster? The Dragon Ball Z games have become infamous for their bloated character rosters, but in that same breath, are also beloved for including obscure choices like Devilman and Android #8. I'm sure the FighterZ roster is going to be much tighter, but I still have a few characters who I think need to be included. To make this a little tougher (and more entertaining to write), I stuck to Dragon Ball Z as I'm not sure the other series will be included. I also stayed away from "obvious" choices like Piccolo and Krillin because it would've been too easy (and I would've just written Yamcha ten times). Here are the ten characters who need to be in Dragon Ball FighterZ. Android #18 The Android saga is my favorite arc of the series. Not only did it spawn the awesome History of Trunks side film, but it introduced us to the killer teens, Androids #17 and #18. Since they share the same moveset, there's no need to include them both. And with the overall lack of ladies in Dragon Ball, #18 seems like a no-brainer. She's as strong as a Super Saiyan, but is always held back by plot convenience (like a bomb in her brain or the need to stay back and protect her daughter), so I'm sure Arc System Works would have no trouble making her seem like a badass. One of her supers could even bring in #17 and have them perform an Accel Dance mirroring Gohan's death scene in Future of Trunks. Videl Videl is just so great. Meeting Gohan during their university days, Mr. Satan's daughter turned out to be a much better fighter than he'd ever be. She came onto the scene with a rough and tough demeanor (even going so far as to blackmail Gohan into teaching her how to use ki) before eventually cutting her hair and giving birth to her daughter, Pan. To be quite honest, I'm not sure what her moveset would be. But I'd bet it'd be a nice change of pace to use a not as flashy character who overwhelms opponents with punches and kicks. Master Roshi Master Roshi has been a series staple for a while, yet has only been featured in a handful of the Dragon Ball fighters. With how prevalent he's becoming in Super (I assume, since I'm only following the English dub and watched up to the Resurrection F arc), Goku and Krillin's teacher should get his due. He could come out as Jackie Chun, puff out his muscles for a transformation super, and comes equipped with his staff, Kamehameha, and pornography. There's too many possibilities to not include him. Captain Ginyu I'm assuming at least one member of the Ginyu Force is joining the roster, and if it's not Recoome, it has to be Ginyu himself. Most famous for his squad's Super Sentai-like poses and switching bodies with a space frog, Ginyu's the kind of personality filled character Arc System works loves. His supers could be different poses buffing up his attributes like in previous games, and I'm sure Arc System Works could figure out how to make his famous Body Change work in game. Mr. Satan Hercule Mr. Satan is the most incompetent fighter in the series, but the most competent con man. Taking advantage of the time the Z Fighters were away fighting Frieza and the like, Mr. Satan became the World Champion. And somehow, he managed to take credit for the defeat of Cell, Buu, and much more. Past games have made his unconventional style fit into their rosters, so I'm sure Arc System Works could do the same. Don't weaken his attacks or anything like that, but have him be a tricky fighter who doesn't move like the rest of the characters. Maybe he trips over something and catches his opponent in a super, or distract his opponents with a re-enactment version of themselves. He's just a funny dude I'd love to see move around in their engine. What characters do you think need to be in Dragon Ball FighterZ? Yajirobe? That one spiky-haired girl from Super everyone seems to like? Yamcha? ___ The best place on the internet where you can find all the information about Dragon Ball GT, Dragon Ball Super, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Xenoverse, Dragon Ball Heroes We love dragon ball, Give us your power!!! ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ - Don't forget to subscribe: http://bit.ly/2gYsNY0 - Visit our Fanpage: http://bit.ly/2vQLL5t
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Dragon Ball Super Manga ch. 33-35
One more time!
So the Dragon Ball Super manga has its own version of the Tournament of power, but it’s only ten chapters long, which doesn’t seem nearly big enough for a battle royale with eighty competitors. The leaner, meaner approach worked for the Destroyer Invitational Tournament and the Zamasu Saga, but I have a feeling it’s not going to work so well this time.
Not that it matters much. I already got to see a kickass Tournament of Power. Anything else this one can add to the experience is just gravy. I’m really only covering this to get to the Moro and Granolah arcs that follow, and from what I understand they’re each a lot longer than ten chapters, which should give Toyotaro some room to breathe. Anyway, let’s dive in.
I like this bit where the U6 ran late because Caulifla insulted Auta Magetta. She was right to do it. Magetta sucks eggs.
The characters in this version are all the same, but the eliminations and fights are different. For instance, the first guy to get eliminated in this version is Murisarm of Universe 10, by Android 17.
18 takes out Prum and Jimiz like it’s nothing. The anime got a lot of mileage out of those two, but the manga clears them out like they’re nobodies. Jimiz doesn’t use instant transmission to save himself, and Prum’s lack of offensive capabilities is never mentioned. He just gets in 18′s way and eats a beating as if he’s a regular fighter, instead of the whole sniper duo thin he’s got with Harmira.
Mostly, though, I like this page because 18 says she’s a married woman (because Prum called her a young lady), and Zarbuto and the others seem angry about her being off the market. Brianne really thought she had a shot at 18, but oh well, I guess.
Goku pretty much goes straight after Jiren and the rest of the Pride Troopers get in his way.
Nice shot of everyone fightin’.
Frieza “betrays” his team by telling Frost that Krillin, Roshi, and Tien are U7′s weakest fighters. Frost goes after them, but... he would have done that anyway?
Krillin is the first U7 gut to get ringed out. Also Dr. Rota shows up on the bench and we don’t even find out who eliminated him. Champa asks why he didn’t use his magic, so this is the first time we get even the slightest indication of what Rota’s powers are.
Frost takes out Tien, but backs off of Roshi when Goku jumps in to save him. Roshi is more annoyed than grateful, as though he thought he stood a chance against Frost. But Frieza suggests they take on some other teams now. He proposes that Frost fight for the first half of the tournament, and then Frieza will step in when Frost gets tired. What the hell is he talking about?
Like, I know Frieza is just playing Frost, but he’s only manipulating Frost into doing things he likely would have done anyway. Frieza’s “deception” also seems to depend on Frost having absolutely no idea how the Tournament of Power works. He seems to really love the idea of splitting off and forming a secret alliance with Frieza, but it doesn’t work. They won’t get a commendation for original thinking. It’s a battle royale, and the team with the most fighters left at the end is the winner. You can’t just make up shit and expect it to stick.
So Frost goes all out against some Universe 9 guys, then Frieza agrees to tag in, but that’s when he kicks Frost out of the ring. So I guess Frieza’s scheme was to trick Frost into leaving himself open and tiring him out, as opposed to letting him sneak around, which is kind of what he did in the anime version. It still seems pretty dumb.
The Danger Trio from U9 fight Gohan and Piccolo in this version, and Bergamo’s the last U9 guy to go. Piccolo has the shot, but hesitates, so Frieza finishes him off to end their universe. And this is really the only depiction of Frieza that makes sense in this. Having him play mindgames with the other competitors is kind of dumb, since the rules are too simple for him to manipulate that way. But Frieza’s ruthlessness makes perfect sense here. He’s uniquely qualified to condemn these teams to oblivion, in a way that the Z-Fighters are not. The question shouldn’t be “Can we trust Frieza?” but “How can we stomach working with him?”
Back to Goku, he struggles to hold off the U11 players, but then he sees Jiren fighting Hit, and that gets him fired up.
Specifically, he sees Jiren wrecking Hit, but you get the idea.
So Goku charges Jiren at Super Saiyan Blue, but it gets him nowhere.
But Hit stops Jiren from eliminating Goku, and tells him it repays him for conceding the match at the Destroyer Invitational.
Hit reveals that he’s been training for strength since his fight with Goku, since his timey-wimey techniques weren’t completely effective in that battle. And Time-skipping didn’t work on Jiren either, but he has an idea that can work. He wants Goku to help him, but....
... Goku declines, saying he wants to defeat Jiren on his own. Hit doesn’t understand, since Goku just got done using his strongest form on Jiren, with no effect. But Goku thinks he can overcome that limit before the tournament ends. It’s not that he’s confident, he just doesn’t see any other way to win the tournament. Well... there is another way, Hit just suggested an alternative, and Goku rejected it. I respect Goku’s decision here, but it’s weird that he acts like he’s got no choice when he was literally offered a choice.
So Hit goes it alone, and tries the “Time Lag” technique, which I’m pretty sure is the same thing as that “time prison” he used in Episode 111, and Jiren manages to break free and eliminate Hit. To be fair, I’m not sure Goku’s assistance would have made much of a difference.
So yeah, that’s about a third of the Tournament of Power, and we seem to just be zipping through a lot of the story beats.
Unfortunately, the manga version of the Tournament of Power doesn’t have KISS performing live. Instead, they got... Winger. Sigh.
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