^^ screenshot. blends in on mobile/dark mode ^^
that wasn't why she was mad though, well it was and wasn't. it wasn't that she had sex necessarily, but more the weight and nuance of it all, of Rhaenyra being the princess, who Alicent had been trying her best to serve the best interest of and protect in terms of betrothals and Viserys, having sex in a very public place. she was clearly upset and holding back tears when she confronts Rhaenyra that first time, but she isn't especially angry. she's angry when Rhaenyra lied to her face on her dead mother's name, going so far as to act upset and offended Alicent could ever insinuate anything about her, played the victim, had sex with two separate people in one night and said she was still a maiden (from Alicent's perspective she couldn't have known Rhaenyra only tried to have sex with Daemon and was unsuccessful, she could only believe that she had sex with both Daemon and Criston), and then used her power to have her father (the only person Alicent had) banished from kings landing, all the while she had put her ass on the line for her in front of Viserys, who never believed Rhaenyra to begin with. it wasn't simply the fact that Rhaenyra had sex, she's mad because Rhaenyra used her, hurt her, did harm to her name and the work both she and Viserys had put towards giving her a choice no royal girl, especially a princess, could ever imagine, and she spit in their faces.
there's also the fact that Cole admitted IMMEDIATELY what had transpired, asked not for forgiveness but for death, and admitted that it was dubcon. it's a very different situation. she also sympathized with the fact he felt great remorse for both the act of sleeping with the princess but also his breakdown that lead to the murder of Joffery. all we see is her stopping him and then a near decade has passed and they are close friends, we know nothing of how this friendship evolved, when she fully forgave him for his acts, what it took for him to earn her trust and forgiveness.
not saying either of them are saintly and perfectly correct in that situation, but you boil it down to the point that the situation is unrecognizable. you ignored all of the nuance on both sides. Alicent was never mad about the sex, upset yes, mad no, she was mad at how Rhaenyra could hurt her so horribly (amongst many other things. I don't think she, someone who shared her grief with Rhaenyra over their dead mother's, could ever get over how Rhaenyra lied on her name. me personally? I'd be sick to my stomach every time I looked at her for the rest of my days). Cole was coerced into sex, which he was honest and seeked death for repentance, had a breakdown and murdered someone (I won't defend this, you can't, he did murder an innocent person, that is a fact) but felt so guilty he tried to kill himself and seemingly spent the last 10ish years making up for it (where as I can name multiple people Rhaenyra outright in level head and mind maimed/murdered/otherwise allowed or dismissed the deaths/injury of, for her own goals and didn't give a second thought to so.... girly walks atop barely cooled corpse's time and time again).
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The most frustrating part of engaging in any of this discourse with pro-Israel people is that they claim there's just something ineffable about "seeing and understanding" how supporting Palestinian liberation is directly calling for the eradication of Jewish people (as if that type of rhetoric isn't exactly how actual antisemitism often manifests in online spaces but that's a topic for another day)
They get through people debunking the "the land belongs to the people of Israel anyway" argument and the "LGBTQ Palestinians are safe in Israel" argument and the "Genocide isn't what's happening here so you should educate yourself" argument and when all of those points are meticulously disproven over and over they still stand with "Well, myself and your Jewish friends see the hate you have in your heart for us" and it truly doesn't matter what you say at that point because even if you yourself are Jewish they will claim that refusing to support the state, government and military of Israel is inherently hateful and bigoted, as if a religious ethnostate is some inherent human right that is being taken away from them. I know many of them are blinded by the relentless propaganda that's been around their whole lives and how hard it is to break free from a belief system that is so tied to your core identity as a human being but it is so frustrating watching people being led straight to the point over and over again and just turning around and refusing to see it.
It's also so frustrating to see people using the momentum of this movement to casually tack on actual antisemitism to these discussions, as if having Jewish people in positions of power is why the US bends over backwards to excuse the actions of Israel and not, yknow, the fact that our government directly benefits from having a military stronghold in the middle east. I've talked to some well-meaning pro-Palestine friends irl who casually use antisemetic talking points because they've ALSO bought into the narrative that Israeli = Jewish and so they blame the actions of Israel and the IDF on Jewish people's "religious values" and ignore the fact that this conflict really has almost nothing to do with religion itself and everything to do with capitalism, imperialism and maintaining the US's status as a so-called "global power".
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very UO but if they couldn’t bring back Jake, they should have stuck Peyton and Julian together as endgame over Leyton! Julian and Peyton had already supposedly been in love, they both like cities (LA, NYC etc) and it makes sense they’d live there due to their careers, and both Peyton and Julian for a lot of their time on the series seemed ambivalent about starting a family. Also, Julian is smart and on the introverted side like Lucas but a little goofy like Jake - a combination of the traits Payron goes for! Meanwhile, we saw so clearly in season 5 that Brooke and Lucas both loved being back in one tree hill, they both seem to have jobs they can do anywhere, they both very much prioritize settling down and having a family, they were already unofficially co-parenting Angie, they still have that seemingly effortless and magical connection, they balance each other out perfectly…I could go on!
Honestly, I wouldn't have minded that one bit. First of all, Peyton deserved a million times better than Lucas by the time he finally got around to choosing her. She was lacking any sort of spine or self respect when she ran to that airport. As irritating as I found her character for large stretches of season 5, ultimately she wasn't in the greatest place and only imagined that her happiness could be attainable if she won Lucas back. Now to get back to what you were saying. I definitely think Peyton was better off and would have thrived most living away from Tree Hill in a bigger city where her dreams could really take off. I mean, the show really said that because Peyton wasn't exactly where she wanted to be at age 22 that this made her a failure and retroactively meant her decision not to rush down the aisle at age 19 had been a terrible, awful, shameful mistake. Seasons 6 and 7 Julian would have made a lot of sense as a partner for the ambitious Peyton who had faced so much trauma and pain in her hometown. STRONGLY agreed about your points re: Peyton and Julian being ambivalent and sometimes even negative about settling down in Tree Hill compared to Brooke and Lucas who genuinely loved it there and couldn't imagine raising their families elsewhere. I'm aware every aspect of this was unintentional considering the possibility of a Brucas endgame post season 3 was basically taboo, but in terms of compatibility Brooke/Lucas and Peyton/Julian made the most sense. If we couldn't have Jake back for Peyton, obviously. In the end, Peyton still left Tree Hill, something Lucas never wanted. And Julian settled for staying in Tree Hill for Brooke even though he'd rather be in LA. Relationships are all about compromise, but it's interesting how their situations sort of parallel. You should go on, because I love reading your thoughts! I genuinely think if not for Peyton's continued interest in Lucas and Lucas having an unfortunate history of making the same mistakes over and over again, Lucas would have eventually ended up with Brooke. Season 5 Brucas had such an ease around each other. Their goals lined up perfectly. The chemistry was still there. Their communication was really solid and both went out of their way to emotionally support the other. Maybe it's because the pressure was off considering neither was expressing their feelings, but you see them taking care of Angie and the way Lucas considered proposing to Brooke and instinctively know that they could have had it all. It's really depressing.
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well now I'm curious about your beefs with till the end of the moon lol
Nonny, where do I even begin. Okay I'll begin with saying that @autumnslantern has probably written about this with more eloquence than I ever have and ever will, here, because Lantern is good at essay analyzing and I just shriek my frustrations like "cactus plant shrieks at clouds" into the void of my tumblr blog.
But I think the primary issue for me about TTEOTM isn't even the plot inconsistencies or the "fans of a thing that is not very good do not acknowledge that it's not very good" because neither of those two things bother me. Neither plot nor "it's not very good objectively" have ever deterred me from my love of a thing. I have watched some supremely badly created cdramas and come away feeling completely fulfilled in an iddy way and I grew up watching 80s cdramas so it doesn't matter to me if a show is camp or pretty or however.
BUT I think the reason I get bothered by TTEOTM is because I, okay, one I think I hyped it up for myself too much by going on spring planting back home when it was coming out so I was like "I WILL SAVE THIS, TO SAVOR IT ALL IN ONE GO! when I get back!!! :DDD" and also I consistently feel like I'm Charlie Brown and the Lucy-esque show writers will never let me kick the football.
My id can neither be fulfilled by the sad woobie meow meow who snaps and does murder, nor can it be fulfilled by the tragically burdened correct but suffering about it hero because this drama flip flops back and forth between these two things in a way that is just. really difficult for me to enjoy personally. Adding this to the plot and pacing difficulties as well as some of the ????? decisions in the editing room makes this very difficult for me to like.
Either TTJ is "suffers more than Jesus and is correct and good about it" or he's "tragically deranged and learns to love the world through the power of a principled bae" both of which are things I I adore and would eat with a spoon but this particular combination of "he suffers more than Jesus and is correct and good about it BUT he's also a deranged murder man who does very few actual murders and has to learn what love and goodness is through the....bae who never really expresses a lot of feelings about the world tbqh" kind of leaves me a bit twisting in the wind of "but. why though." and if I stop to ask "but why though" in a xianxia drama that's just not a good sign! I personally just didn't vibe with it.
I mean I vibed with some parts of it. I really wish there were more parts of it I vibed with. I really WANTED to vibe with more of it. But some part of me still feels like Charlie Brown being denied the ability to kick the football you know.
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an interesting thing abt jgy antis is like. where is the source of their, shall we say, negative opinion of jgy? like, 1. jgy is a villain, he does horrible things with no remorse, he’s willing to do everything to achieve his selfish, egotistical goals. --> 2. the source of this claim: this, this and this scene. --> 3. alright, but to me -- says someone who’s not an anti -- this reads differently. that he did all those things, and did them on purpose and without remorse, is not that obvious to me. why do you think that? --> 4. well, obviously because he’s a villain and does horrible things with no remorse.
like... he’s evil because he does bad things, and he does bad things because he’s evil. i’m interested in how antis came by those opinions, but a, unfortunately i have them all blocked, and b, even if i or someone else made a poll, it wouldn’t be authentic because no sane anti is going to say “well, people hated him and wrote all those things about him on twt, so i started hating him as well”, or “i only care about wgxn, you could sell me anything about other characters if your arguments were convincing enough because i zoned out during the parts when wgxn weren’t on screen/pages of the book”. it’s all “written in the book/shown in the show” and “logical arguments you’d agree with if only you could read”.
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