#c!dream apologist critical

[stellocchia]

One thing I wanna say about this tweet:

That I have yet to see mentioned is that it completely disproves both the "Tommy deserved exile" idea and the "Dream did it because he cared for George" idea.

Sure, neither of those held up before either, but this truly gave it the final blow.

"c!Dream liked the feeling of power and control that c!Tommy's friends exiling him gave him" that's it. That was his motive for pushing for exile so much.

He liked the power. He liked the control. He didn't care that it was George's house that got lightly scratched. He didn't do it because Tommy's behaviour was uniquely bad and he wanted to uphold law and order. He did it because Tommy was the cool kid he wanted to have entirely under his control.

Like, I know I dunk a lot on c!Dream apologists, but no one does it like cc!Dream does it

#dream smp #dreamwastaken #tommyinnit #c!dream #c!tommy #c!primeboys #c!dream apologist critical

[stemms]

I swear to the Primes that c!Dream apologists are ridiculous. I literally found one saying that c!Tommy deserved worse and that he was the villain, c!Dream was actually the hero, etc, etc. Like were we all watching the same thing or what? Looking at that made me feel like we definitely weren’t. It’s honestly ridiculous at this point. C!Dream was obsessed and it’s clear to everyone but his apologists. I just don’t get it.

They really are, I even sometimes find it hard to figure out whether their takes are infuriating or hilarious because they look like they’re not being serious at all, except they are. Bruhhh, that take sounds like something c!Dream himself would say lmao :) c!Tommy is literally just a kid? Kids are supposed to act like kids, what are they even on??? c!Dream apologists really should realise that their “clearly mentally stable and Good™” meow meow saw a teenager defy him and be a little loud, and decided that his number one goal is to make his life a living hell.

#ask #voidwizardwholikestheshadows #dsmp #c!primeboys #c!dream apologist critical #discourse

[cellberry]

omigod omigod omigod

#GO OFF KING #c!tommy #c!dream #c!discduo #dream smp #c!dream neg #c!dream critical #villain c!dream #cc!tommy #disc duo #mcyt #discord #based #tommyinnit #c!primeboys #dreamwastaken #prime boys #c!dream apologist critical #c!dream apologist neg #dsmp #please rb #my posts

[sydneydoesstuff]

bro are c!dream apologists ok? 😭😭😭

1) they realize cc!dream isn’t actually c!dream???

2) me hating c!dream doesn’t automatically mean i hate the cc?? like good lord, have some separation

3) being a dream stan doesn’t automatically = being a c!dream apologist???

4) i’m pretty damn sure cc!dream wouldn’t be calling c!dream a good person??

#c!dream apologist critical #c!dream critical #c!dream #dream smp #dreamsmp #dsmp #like am i crazy??? or is this shit weird as hell #discourse #cc!dream would pummel c!dream in a heartbeat #sorry to be super negative and discoursey but i couldn’t let this one go #with the 4k likes too good god 😭

[hopalongfairywren]

people will act like c!Tommy being scared of the prospect of the murderous necromancer control freak was the one who blew up something important to him killing him over and over and compare it to c!Dream toying around with c!Tommy like he's a little ragdoll not even because he's just a sadistic asshole but as some sick scheme for control are the exact same thing. Like my brother in Christ I don't even have a punchline just don't jump off that slippery slope you've made.

#dream smp #dsmp #dsmp discourse #c!tommy #c!dream #c!dream neg #c!dream critical #c!dream apologist critical #the wren hops #also to anyone earnestly sending hate asks. #grow up

[northern-loner]

For the panel today, I hope a Dream Apologist is in the crowd and tries to argue that Exile was a good thing and Wilbur just gets up from his seat, walks into the crowd and just fucking decks that Apologist on the spot.

I feel like that would get a news report on CNN.

#vidcon #dsmp #wilbur soot #c!tommy #c!dream apologist negative #c!dream apologist critical #just in case

[sunlitmcgee]

the fact that this fandom has such a large group in it that will see a sweet, kind, funny, bright and beautiful little boy with so much love and life inside of him be tortured to the point of not wanting to be alive and will somehow hate him and think the monster that did it is cool, hot, sexy or in the right somehow is simply boggling to me.

Like...like I’m pretty sure the proper reaction to that sort of thing is to want the abuser dead by fire and the child loved and cared for forever. That’s common sense. That’s how you are Supposed to feel about these situtations.

But some people don’t!! Wild

#dream smp #c!dream #c!tommy #c!dream apologist critical #c!dream apologist negative #c!tommy apologist #fandom critical #meta #tw abuse #tw suicide

[cheetahf]

C!dream apologist challenge

Don’t victim blame characters that your “skrunkle” has hurt

Difficulty: impossible

#c!dream apologist critical #dsmp fandom critical #c!tommy #c!dream #any c!dream apologists in my comments will be blocked #I don’t wanna hear your bs #tw victim blaming #tw victim blaming mention #tw implied abuse mention #this also applies to other characters like ctubbo #and cranboo or just any one on the smp #c!dream neg

[w3ndytheraccoon]

If I see one more post about why C!Dream is not a villain, I will rage-

C!Dream is a complex character with an understandable motive, and his spiralings was very realistic and I can one hundred percent see why. He is a very morally gray, albeit leaning more toward black than white, character. It wouldn’t be fair if I just label him as THE villain, because perspectives exist, and in some member’s perspective, like Purpled for example, he’s definitely not as evil as he is in, say, Tubbo’s perspective.

But that doesn’t change the fact Dream was a horrible person.

Just because he had a understandable motive, that doesn’t mean the shit that happened in Exile is justified. That doesn’t mean Doomsday is justified. That doesn’t mean all the manipulation and all the lying are justified. That doesn’t mean what he and Punz did to Vikkstar and Lazarbeam is justified. That doesn’t mean what happened in prison was justified.

Especially Exile and Vikkstar & Lazarbeam ! Exile is for isolating Tommy so he can’t cause trouble, not for abusing and gaslighting him to near the point of fucking suicide ! And what happened to Vikkstar & Lazarbeam was completely unnecessary ! Dream and Punz did NOT need to kill them over and over and over just to test the Revival Book, that is cruel and several violations of human’s rights.

Conclusion : C!Dream fucking sucks and I wish Punz didn’t brought him back. I’m an enthusiast, not apologist. His motive makes him explainable, not justifiable or excusable, and if I ever somehow manage to rip the fabric of reality and teleport to the DSMP universe, the first thing I will do is find Dream to deck him.

… But he’s still a complex character and one of my favourites.

Anyway, if I miss a point or something, do remind me. I’ll probably edit this and add more character analysis in the morning, when my thoughts are actually coherent and I’m not writing something from pure spite and anger.

Morning edit :

He also hurt Geogre and Sapnap. Sure, he never physically hurt them as far as we’re aware, but do you know how painful it is to watch your friend spirals and became the total opposite of how they were ? How helpless it feels when you realised your friend is too far gone and you can’t help them ? How guilty it is when you think of all the times you could reach out and stop them from turning out like this but you didn’t ? How badly that would take a toll on your mental health ?

But anyway, just because C!Dream is a horrible person, that doesn’t mean what happened in prison is okay. The whole obsidian cell with lava door and raw potato ? Yeah, that’s fine, I can get behind that, since it was his idea for prison to be like that. It’s just karma. What I meant is the torture part. Does he deserve it ? Depends who you ask. I personally think it was justified and deserved, but that still doesn’t make it okay.

#dsmp #dsmp dream #dream #dream smp #cdream #c!dream #c!dream critical #c!dream slander #i fucking hate him #But I also love him #I’m making this a series of blog where I diss DSMP character because they’re humans and flawed and make mistakes #But I’ll be dam if I let “ It’s a mistake “ stop me from calling them out for the amount of shitty and unexcusable things they did #Next on the chopping block is C!Tommy #Once I watch all the lore streams to remind myself that is #Him being my favourite and me being a C!Tommy apologist isn’t gonna save his ass from this #Call-out with Raccoon #Dsmp call-out with Raccoon

[carpedzem]

I think one of the biggest trap you can fall into while lore discoursing is to trying to make your fav morally pure. being c!dream apologist for so long and saying that 'well yes i know he is an asshole' over and over made me own his crimes. yes he is an asshole. he is my asshole. i don't need him to be a good person or be always right for me to still call him my favourite character or finding him interesting or tragic. and boy oh boy do I wish we all were like that

c!dream is an asshole. he manipulates and torments and kills people, he is willing to sacrifice everything, others and himself for his goal of 'happiness'. he is also alone, traumatized after months of torture. it's not an excuse for his actions tho, but we know he does things for a reasons

c!george is an asshole. he threw a fit over the throne he didn't even wanted. he thinks that everything is a joke and that everything always should be easy and fun. he also couldn't bear what was going on around him, he prefers to sleep than to face a world where his friends are not friends anymore. we know he doesn't care about the throne and he still took the dethronement so personal. because he has his reasons

c!sapnap is an asshole. no matter the intention he lied about what c!tommy told him. moreover he believed c!tommy over c!dream. he wants c!dream dead, he believed c!dream had to stay in inhuman prison, still claiming to be his friend. but that doesn't change the fact that c!sapnap is one of the most tragic characters on the server. he lost everything - his home, his best friends, his fiances, his dad. he lied, no matter the intention, there is no excuse for that but there are reasons, valid reasons for him doing that because he is allowed to be hurt and he is allowed to be angry and he is allowed to wanting to protect c!george, even if in c!dream's eyes that's an asshole move (and if c!george knew, he might think the same)

none of them is morally pure, all of them did things that should be questioned but all those actions exist in the context of reasons behind actions. they are just humans and humans are flawed

#again no hate towards others i just kindly disagree #just let them be flawed man :( #i love them so much i truly do they re so messed up #c!dream critical #c!sapnap critical #c!george critical #<- great now i wont be able to see my own post >:( #also hi kole remember that one post where you were like 'im cgeorge apologist' like YEAH i had such a hard time coming up with his crimes #lmao #discourse #not really lmao just for a blocking purpose

[proudfreakmetarusonniku]

sorry to talk about Lore again but I have to mention how fucking. Sick to my stomach. the c!dream apologist argument of “c!tommy needing to see c!dream as a big evil villain for his worldview!” is. like we are Not calling an abuse victim unreliable and wrong for seeing their abuser as a Bad Person. we are not presenting that as a fucking Delusion. a foundation for a False Worldview that needs to be shattered. it isn’t even fucking True he sympathises so much with c!dream even after everything he invited him to the hotel opening and was Genuinely Visibly Shocked when c!dream told him he was being tortured. it’s just so gross, genuinely. please don’t talk about an abuse victim like them seeing their abuser as a bad person is Delusional and a Flaw in How They See The World that’s incredibly uncomfortable to see as an abuse survivor think through what you’re implying please.

#dream smp #fandom critical #tw victim blaming #tw abuse apologism #c!dream apologist negative #primeboys (derogatory)

[stellocchia]

Oh, but didn't you know? c!Dream was just PRETENDING to be obsessed with c!Tommy! It's all part of his master plan to unite the server, which was set in motion as soon as he got the revival book! Which is why, before he had the revival book, he never... uh...

Ew, you think an adult is obsessed with a teen? You must be a perv.

Pffft, that's how a lot of those arguments sound though, isn't it?

Like, ignore all the evidence, none of that is canon because I said so. Dream is an UWU babyboy who is just pretending to be evil and obsessed. Shoves the abuse arc under a carpet As I was saying, PRETENDING TO BE EVIL. Eats my previous post with Dream's cringe obsession compilation PRETENDING TO BE OBSESSED, NOTHING ELSE!

Like, I get only following the dsmp from c!Dream's super-secret pov from an alternate dimension but at a certain point it just starts sounding ridiculous...

#anon ask #dream smp #tw obsession #c!dream #c!dream apologist critical

[stemms]

It’s absolutely hilarious to me that c!Dream apologists genuinely believe that c!Dream, the man who was infatuated with power to the point of rejecting all his attachments, only to form a perpetual fixation on c!Tommy, completely contradicting his previous beliefs in consequence, never had a hint of obsession, only hated him and cared about his discs instead. I happen to have practically all the c!Prime quotes from season 0 that express c!Dream’s obsession better than anything, so I’d like to go through them and reflect on c!Dream apologists’ takes.

This had been said a lot of times before, but it still perplexes me to this day how flexible c!Dream apologists’ opinion on the canonicity of the lore is, depending solely on its representation of c!Dream; as long as it makes him look good, it’s undoubtedly canon (the fact that it only works if they villainise c!Tommy shows just how flawed and inoperative it is), though if it’s the opposite, it conveniently changes to “it was clear they were messing around, those streams didn’t even have proper lore.” 

“c!Tommy was the one who built the tunnel leading to c!Dream’s house, but people tried to make it into a creepy c!Primeboys thing. c!Dream never stalked him.”

c!Tommy: “Let's head back to my HQ, I bet he'll be way over- he'll [c!Dream] be lurking in the walls!”  c!Tubbo: “He probably will, you know?”

c!Tubbo: "I was right! I was right! He's in the walls!”  c!Tommy: “Oh- why is he always in the walls?! Why is he always here?!”

c!Tommy: “And all he [c!Dream] does, Wilbur, is sit in my walls, staring at me.”

c!Tommy: “Let's walk, Tubbo. We walk- watch it- watch as he follows.”

c!Tommy: “He [c!Dream] just follows us around, boys!” 

c!Fundy: “He’s [c!Dream] targeting you!” 

c!Fundy, taking the path near c!Tommy’s house: “Why is- D-Dream? Dream!” 

c!Fundy, talking about the clip: “I mean, Dream is right next to you-” 

c!Fundy: “Hey, uh- not to warn you, but Dream is like- ten blocks away from you hiding. I can see him sneaking from here.” 

c!Fundy: “Uh- Dream is, like, very close to you right now.” 

c!Tommy: “I know, he just sits and sits in my walls and stares at me.” 

c!Fundy: “Talking about stalkers- Dweeeam, where are you?” 

c!Tommy: “Why is he always in the walls?? Oh my god-” 

c!Fundy: “I see- I see Dream!” c!Tommy: “Ohhh, why is he always just- hello, Dream…” 

c!Tommy: “No! No! No! We do not mess with him, we just accept he’s in de walls forever.” 

c!Tommy: “I don’t know why there’s a hole in my roof.”

In addition to these quotes, a reminder that:

c!Dream was the one who built a tunnel towards c!Tommy’s house to spy on him.

c!Dream lived in c!Tommy’s walls.

c!Dream prevented c!Tommy from getting any discs other than Cat and Mellohi when he tried to make a disc farm, for no other reason than to make him more dependent on those two discs; if he had control over them, he’d have control over c!Tommy too.

c!Dream logged off in the jukebox room to steal the disc as soon as it began playing.

c!Dream often inserted himself between c!Tommy and his friends, as if he was a part of their company.

c!Dream blew up and vandalized people’s property and stole from them with c!Puffy, and left signs indicating it was c!Tommy.

c!Dream provoked c!Tommy into acting on his emotions, so that it would be easier to put exile forward.

Not to mention this absurdly big amount of screenshots of c!Dream appearing conveniently at the same places and time as c!Tommy.

#my c!prime thoughts #dream smp #dsmp #c!dream apologist critical #fandom critical #primeboys (derogatory) #c!primeboys #c!discduo #c!dream #c!tommy #tw stalking #tw possessive behavior #tw obsessive behaviour

[tobi-smp]

I know I say that a lot of things are the funniest things that c!dream apologists have ever done, but I’ve got a new one.

the funniest thing about dream apologists is when they make dream look worse than any legitimate criticism I’ve ever seen completely unprompted.

some examples:

1: likening dream to a wild animal or a force of nature, saying unironically that he’s completely unable to stop himself from murdering people when he gets angry and that everyone should just expect that to be outcome if they get him mad. seemingly not noticing that this is an argument in favor of keeping dream separated from the rest of the server, because dream is too dangerous to stay in contact with them.

2: utilizing the pandora’s box metaphor by naming the cat that was killed “hope” in order to make it’s death look more meaningful, not realizing that this makes dream all of the evils of the world in this metaphor. the vault was, supposedly, made to house dream from the beginning and dream was trapped in the vault for a year, so if dream isn’t hope then that’s the only other viable option fkajsdlkljafdskj (likewise, this makes technoblade pandora).

3: making the legitimate argument that dream only abused, murdered, and tortured For Pretend. like dream was only Pretending to be obsessed with tommy, to break down his free will, to gaslight him, to hit him, to actually murder him three separate times, among crimes against Many other characters (with murdering mexican dream, vikk, and lazar being the most indefensible of the bunch, but making tubbo get ready for his own death is Definitely High On That List). as if doing all of those things Because He Has A Secret Plan To Make Things Better in some way or another (to unite the server against him for one), or because he thought it’d Teach people (particularly tommy) a lesson to make them better/happier people is supposed to be Less unhinged than doing all of those things because he likes hurting people.

obviously this is just down to opinion, but I genuinely think exile is much worse if dream did all of that completely knowingly because he thought it was good for tommy. a serial killer who thinks the world is going to be better because of his serial killing isn’t suddenly innocent, but dream apologists think that’s how it works so now we’re here.

4: So Much infantilization, to the point of just outright ableism. “dream can’t read maps because he has adhd 🥺,” the philza spoonfeeding post, the very Concept of the au where the syndicate nurses dream back to health and dream is fixed because he’s so physically dependent on other people for basic survival he couldn’t Possibly be himself anymore by the end of it. what’s cuter than cutting away someone’s free will and capacity for independent thought!

5: people who straight up defend dream’s “divine right to rule” by comparing his ownership and defense of the smp to real life dictators and wars unironically, which doubles as real life war apologia and comparing c!dream to some of the most horrific acts in known human history faskjkjldfsa

#dream smp #c!dream critical #tommyinnit #fandom critical #I've said it before #but nobody makes c!dream look worse than dream apologists

[hopalongfairywrens]

“C!dream is morally grey in the grand scheme of things” no the fuck he isn’t lmao. The dude literally tortured two people for not even science. He torments a teenager too the point of suicide. He levels an entire city. He doesn’t feel remorse for any of that and considers it a necessary step in his vague goal for a serverwide cult of personality utopia! You can like morally abhorrent characters it’s okay. He doesn’t become a magically morally grey guy when put next to an omnicidal dictator either, because one doesn’t negate the severity of the other’s crimes and I feel like a bunch of people forget in this case it’s child abuse, stalking, abduction and murder.

#dream smp #dsmp #dsmp lore #dsmp lore discourse #c!dream #c!dream neg #c!dream critical #c!dream apologist neg #‘Bramblestar isn’t that bad compared to ashfur usu’ #Bramblestar is still a domestic abuser tho- #well he didn’t try to kidnap squirrelflight and kill her kids! #that’s what you sound like.

[krysanthemun]

“C!Tommy kinda deserves whatever C!Jack is planning.” i say into the mic.

the crowd boos. i begin to walk off in shame, when a voice speaks & commands silence from the room.

"They’re right," it says. i look for the owner of the voice. there in the 4th row stands: CC!Jack Manifold himself.

#THIS IS A JOKE I truly love C!Tommy #I am a Tommy apologist tbh #but also #and I mean it fondly and with upmost admiration #C!Tommy is a right prick sometimes #which is kinda why I like him but also C!Jack deserves like 1 thing to go right in his life #dream smp #tommyinnit #jack manifold #please don’t attack me over this lol #c!tommy critical