#c!wilbur critical

[stellocchia]

Does anyone remember that time cWilbur tried to weaponize the pit against cQuackity in the custody battle stream and he said something along the lines of "Don't trust someone who would have fought you in the pit" to cTommy?

Because I do.

That was fucked up.

Like, straight-up, not only incredibly manipulative, but also fucked up on a fundamental level. Wilbur is the one who dug up the pit all the way back in Pogtopia. He's the one who came up with the idea of Tommy and Techno fighting in there. He's the one who pushed Tommy and Techno in. He's the one who kept goading them on.

The only person who thought it was appropriate to get Tommy beaten to a pulp because he dared being angry at the guy who executed his best friend on the orders of a dictator is Wilbur. No one else thought of it. No one else orchestrated it. Even Mr. Techno "The only universal language is Violence" Blade was hesitant. Not Wilbur though! Motherfucker cheered throughout!

And then, after the brutality and cruelty of that situation, he had the GALL to try and use his own actions to discredit someone else. Because the way he phrased it cannot be spun around into a self-deprecating "you can't trust me" moment, there was none of that. He was straight-up just being a dickhead.

And then people wonder why Tommy didn't trust him after he came back to life and treated him like a ticking time bomb. Maybe Wilbur shouldn't have gaslit, girlbossed, and gatekept so close to the sun constantly!

#dream smp #dream smp analysis #tommyinnit #wilbur soot #c!wilbur critical #c!tommy #c!wilbur #crimeboys #c!crimeboys #a dsmp analysis? #from me? #in this day and age? #it's more likely than you'd think!

[call-me-apple]

It still boggles my mind that OG L'Manburg era c!Wilbur wasn't widely regarded as a villain he is such a fucking slimy asshole it's incredible like the man plans to "use the TommyInnits of the world" to build himself an industry and calls Tubbo "clay to be molded" in the very first stream he decided to be a danger to society from the get-go.

#HE SUCKS SO BAD #c!wilbur critical

[dr3amofagame]

On the note of c!Dream and the Revolution and L’manburg in particular, I actually wanted to touch on another argument that I see sometimes that I’ve been thinking about lately re. L’manburg’s legitimacy. Because among some groups that are more L’manburg-positive, one take that I feel is decently common is the idea that L’manburg couldn’t be a government because it was only four, five, six people, that the size of the group meant that it was functionally incapable of the power attributed to it. In this, the assertion tends to be that because L’manburg is small, the power it holds is meaningless; it doesn’t have the power and provisions backing it that a regular “government” has, so L’manburg is fundamentally no different from a group of friends that believe in the same thing and therefore work together. The argument, here, seems to be that because the power of L’manburg as a government is manufactured, the power doesn’t actually exist in any meaningful way. 

And the thing about L’manburg to me is that, well, the power being manufactured is...the point? Like. The whole point is that L’manburg doesn’t actually have jack shit to base itself off of, the whole point is that L’manburg is founded on a lie and writes itself into being treated as a legitimate entity through scapegoating other people in a story. That’s the reason why the mythos exists! The mythos needs to exist because it’s the foundation of L’manburg’s existence. Why does L’manburg exist? Because they were ~fighting against oppression~. Why does c!Wilbur have the power to do X, Y, and Z? Because if you’re opposing him you’re on the side of traitors and tyrants and enemies and get out of his fucking country. Just because L’manburg’s existing as a nation and government and what have you is illogical doesn’t prevent it from being treated as a legitimate country and government etc, because in the end people treated it as legitimate and therefore it had real power not only over its own land, but later on over how the entire server operated--see everyone being swept up in the elections, Manberg vs. Pogtopia, etc. 

(What’s especially funny to me about this take is that in a lot of ways, it really reminds me of c!Dream’s opinion of L’manburg during the Revolution. Because while c!Dream definitely saw L’manburg as a threat in terms of the people who were declaring war against him, in terms of the...actual ideology? The whole government thing, “we’re going to be a separate server”? It’s pretty clear that c!Dream thinks that all of that makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. He calls L’manburg a “delusional small part” of the server because from his perspective, what the fuck do you MEAN you’re a government now? What do you mean you’re a separate country--scratch that, what do you mean you’re a separate SERVER? Game rules? Whitelist? What the fuck?? You’re a group of people threatening violence because you have a grudge against me, not revolutionaries fighting a nonexistent oppressive rulership like holy shit I’ve NEVER EVEN MET YOU BEFORE? c!Dream approaches L’manburg’s shit as illegitimate and ridiculous and nonsensical from the get go, because yeah, I mean--they’re literally just a small group of people, not the government they claim to be or that they claim they want to form, or whatever. But things...don’t stay that way.) 

Like the whole point is that in the end, it doesn’t matter that c!Wilbur shouldn’t have been able to stick a flag in a piece of land, declare it as his own, make all these arbitrary rules about who could or couldn’t go inside and what they had to do and declare himself leader over these people and leverage joining his little club to keep them from opposing him and use all of that to threaten conflict against a guy he literally never even met before. Because...he did! And with the mythos established, no one challenged that. L’manburg’s policies and power and legitimacy and leadership and what the leader could and couldn’t do were all based in literally nothing and that didn’t matter because people acted like it was a real thing, so it became real. c!Dream fighting against L’manburg and discrediting its legitimacy at the beginning is part of what gives L’manburg legitimacy because the revolution ends up being used as the foundational story that made L’manburg a Real Thing. The elections and c!Quackity challenging c!Wilbur by running against him when the elections were originally rigged ends up reinforcing L’manburg’s legitimacy as the elections become a Real Thing and the leader of L’manburg as established by the elections are a Real Thing, etc. As long as people buy into L’manburg, as long as it’s TREATED as a real entity, then it remains real because that’s what people believe (which is part of why doomsday and L’manburg like, dying required the people within it to become disillusioned w/ the country so they didn’t feel inclined to rebuild it again.) 

People treated L’manburg as a real entity with real power, which gave it real power over people. Nothing should’ve been in place that allowed c!Wilbur to declare a rigged election, or c!Schlatt to execute the Red Festival, or c!Tubbo to create an extrajudicial army that put c!Phil under house arrest and would extend its influence outside of its own land to kidnap c!Techno’s pet and execute him. The reality of the consequences of L’manburg do not depend on whether or not it should’ve logistically had the power to back up what it was trying to do but whether or not people actually treated it like it did, and they did. Just because L’manburg shouldn’t have been capable of acting like a government doesn’t mean that people didn’t treat it as a government the entire time--from its conception to its death, L’manburg was given a lot of power and influence comparable to that of a government because of what was granted to it that allowed the leader of the faction to do a lot of things without challenge or argument “for the country” both to people within the country’s borders and outside of it, and this very real power and influence wasn’t challenged or disturbed because people believed that it had a right to exist. 

YES L’manburg was manufactured! YES that power didn’t make any sense! YES the legitimacy that L’manburg had as a government entity was basically a fucking crapshoot based on jack shit, and yes it had real power anyway. At the end of the day L’manburg was always treated w/ a level of power and legitimacy beyond just being a Group Of People, and therefore that power and legitimacy became real. L’manburg was a government because people treated it as one. L’manburg was powerful and legitimate and free and independent because that’s what the story said, and everyone believed the story, and that’s what’s important moreso than the logic of whether or not it had enough people to actually “be” a government in the first place.

#c!dreamisms #c!dream and the revolution #c!dream #dreblr #lmanburg critical #c!wilbur critical #<- i guess #listen lmanburg was bullshit its power was bullshit and the mythos was bullshit #that doesn't matter #the manufactured nature of lmanburg is the point !! #that's why the mythos of lmanburg was necessary in the first place! #that's what necessitated the tyrant-revolution-hero-and-villain schtick #lmanburg legitimized itself on the back of the story that c!wilbur wrote #anyway this is a mess but yeahhhh fuck lmanburg god bless

[tobi-smp]

something that needles me about how people frame the c!crimeboys ending isn’t necessarily Just the idea that tommy learned a lesson from it somehow, but the idea that he Specifically learned how to stop being clingy or learned how to let go.

because regardless of how the ending was executed or what you think of it as a whole, that’s Not the lesson that tommy actually needed to learn. and more than that, it’s an uncomfortable take in its own right Because of tommy’s history as a character.

the point of tommy’s insecurity is that he Wasn’t Always Like This. he was Clingy sure, but in the way that someone with Friends is. he Became an insecure person through repeated abuse and tragedy.

through pogtopia, through exile, through the green festival, through doomsday, through his imprisonment, through his death, through the fall out after, through the loss of ghostbur, through dream’s escape.

over and over and over again he’s Stripped of his access to people, to friends, to his home, to his things. and often times made to feel like it’s His fault, through intentional abuse, through other hurt people lashing out, and through his own mind digging into that conditioning.

and that’s had a Clear and Obvious affect on him. he has self esteem issues a mile high and is desperately afraid of being alone and of losing what he has Because It’s In Reaction To Being Made To Feel That Way. in the same way that people who face starvation experience Food Insecurity (which is Also relevant to tommy’s experiences with exile for that matter).

here’s the important thing: logically, tommy still views people as autonomous. even if his feelings Were irrational (and sometimes they are) he’s continuously made an effort to try to stop himself from hurting the people important to him.

when he wanted to reconnect with techno he sent him an invitation in the mail to come see Him, and he never went to prod him after techno chose to ignore it.

when he was jealous of ranboo post-revival he asked tubbo if ranboo made him Happy, and when tubbo said yes that’s all tommy needed to hear. he was Afraid of being forgotten and replaced, of being left behind, but his problem Wasn’t being unwilling to give people space or let his friends live lives independent from him.

the Complicated situation is, of course, with wilbur. because their relationship is a beautiful mess.

but again: tommy doesn’t overstep or choose to pull wilbur to him against his own wishes.

Wilbur expresses a need to keep tommy close and tommy listens. Wilbur gives him the okay to rely on him, tells him that they need to stick together. Family, Blood he calls it.

and the thing about that is that he very sincerely means it, but he’s also terrified by it. because opening himself up to tommy also means risking being rejected by him. and he can’t handle the idea of tommy looking at him and not liking what he sees.

so he ghosts him. keeps him at arms length while still wanting to keep him Near. refusing to let him in but not wanting to let Go either.

and tommy Wants to keep a hold of him, but he doesn’t Force wilbur to do anything either. for all that people call their relationship co-dependent tommy rarely ever saw him, with months of time in between visits at the end.

and at some point in all of this wilbur decided he wanted to leave. he started trying to “wrap up” his relationships with the people on the server because he was going and didn’t know if or when he was coming back, and all the while tommy was still waiting for him to come to him.

what tommy needed to learn Wasn’t how to let go, Wasn’t how to give the people he loves space, Wasn’t how to stop being clingy. what he needed to learn was how to feel Safe and Secure in his relationships, how to Exist without being afraid that the rug was going to suddenly be pulled out from under him. which he can’t do if that isn’t True.

wilbur isn’t a villain in this situation, there Isn’t a villain in this situation. they’re two hurt and traumatized people desperately trying to make sense of the life they’ve been given and how to live in it. but if I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a hundred times: this is not going to make tommy’s insecurity better, it’s going to make it worse.

because wilbur finally gave him a space where he felt like he could open up. he was the First person that tommy had ever been able to talk about exile in real terms to. and wilbur Cared, he cared So Much, and that’s more than tommy had ever had before.

and instead of returning the gesture he ghosted tommy for months until he left. and it was Chance that tommy caught him as he was leaving, tommy had to Pull the information out of him because wilbur originally Refused to say it.

if things had gone differently then tommy would’ve woken up one day and realized that wilbur was just gone for good. and it wouldn’t have been the day after, because wilbur had Already been ghosting him for months at a time.

people Should try to heal from anxiety and insecurity, but Sometimes anxiety and insecurity are rational reactions to someone’s circumstances. and the only way to reasonably Change it is to change those circumstances.

he doesn’t need to “learn” to just not be afraid anymore by having the thing he’s afraid of happening Happen Again, he needs Long Term Stability to Show him that things are okay.

#long post #tommyinnit #c!wilbur critical #not Really but well #just in case

[feralsylph]

Lmanburg could have been the best narrative on what it's like to lose a family member to cult mentality and surviving a cult. We could have had cult leader c!wilbur. We could have had c!tommy struggle with the fact that his brother wants to hurt people and puppet people to soothe his own ego. We could have had it all. L'mancult could have been something, we could have had jonestown 2.0.

.

.

.

Also, as a historian, I can tell you that Lmanburg is not a Hamilton AU, it's British colonialism.

#c!wilbur #c!wilbur critical #c!tommy #dsmp lore #dsmp #fuck lmanburg all my homies hate lmanburg #lmancult

[peearrdee]

The May 19th, 2022 streams done by Eret and Wilbur Soot pull out a lot of conflicting feelings for fans. Now, almost exactly 2 years out from the Final Control Room, I want to reflect on those feelings. My Own Judas is a litmus test for Dream SMP girlbloggers. I’m limited by my own observations of my dashboard after the stream, but here’s my thoughts.

I noticed that after the stream a number of Wilbur mains expressing fury that c!Eret was demanding an apology from c!Wilbur. The common consensus was that Eret had not “earned” their redemption and that Wilbur was being unfairly put down.

In real life, you cannot earn forgiveness. You cannot earn redemption. Forgiveness is given to you, and redemption and justice are concepts rooted entirely in personal beliefs and morality.

From a storytelling perspective, Eret has earned their redemption because the author has shown them doing the emotional labor of trying to reconcile with others. Eret recognized the harm they did, regretted it, and made efforts again and again to do better, and help those they hurt.

Eret’s betrayal caused Tubbo and Tommy to lose their first lives. (Note: the 3 lives system was not canonized until November 16th. At the time of the betrayal, all players played under the assumption that a death just meant a loss of items. Many viewers were still unaware that what they were watching was roleplay.) By the time of the Disc Confrontation, Eret was working towards becoming a better person. You may remember Eret put themself between Dream and the two teenagers, signaling that they were firmly against Dream even if it would mean going against the man who gave them the kingship.

As for the claim that Wilbur was unfairly treated by Eret in their demands for an apology, I will say this:

I will openly admit that there is a feeling of superiority among c!Wilbur “mains” that stems from the belief that we’re following a major—if not the main—character of the Dream SMP story. I would say it is difficult to find anyone on the analysis side of the fandom who would say Wilbur’s story is poorly written. And there is a pervasive feeling of defensiveness among Wilbur mains because of the ways the character been vilified by the fandom. People want to defend their favorite character. All of these factors lead to a tendency towards dismissing the other writers/actors.

However, Wilbur has been far less dedicated to seeking forgiveness than Eret. Wilbur seeks validation from other and their opinions of him deeply affect his self perception. He believes himself unworthy of love and forgiveness, however he also has an inherent belief that he deserves justice. These two ideas appear contradictory, but his romantic attitude towards life reveals why this occurs. Wilbur perceives himself as the main character of his story. He perceives himself as the hero in the Revolution, but after the Election this belief begins to crumble.

Exemplified by the quote: “Tommy, are we the bad guys?”, in Pogtopia Wilbur’s self and public image declined, and he decided that he obviously must be the villain, a belief fed by his actions towards others under increasingly stressful circumstances. He began to abandon attempts at being the better person and embraced the persona of villainy. This character change and his belief that L’Manberg had become irreversibly changed is what culminated in his suicide, an ending that he considered to be poetic justice.

Revival led him to believe he had a greater purpose again. To Wilbur’s logic, a dead man is not brought back randomly: there must be both a narrative purpose he must fulfill, and whatever purpose Dream intended for him. The purpose he latched onto was Quackity, which is a whole ‘nother can of psycho-competitive worms.

After Hitting on 16 and Bust, Wilbur sees himself on a journey to make things right to people he has wronged. However, because growing as a person is difficult and emotionally painful, Wilbur tries to do it as fast as possible in order to give others closure and feel like he’s doing what is necessary for his “narrative”. (Note: I am referring to the narrative character!Wilbur has constructed for himself, not the actual narrative of the streams written by cc!Wilbur.)

When Wilbur gave Eret a quick, half hearted apology, Eret called him out on it. Eret had worked for their redemption arc, and they wanted Wilbur to treat them with the same respect. Eret was unsatisfied with the bare minimum of emotional investment from Wilbur. When Wilbur is confronted in this way by Eret, Wilbur does not understand that what Eret wants is an acknowledgment of their struggle and a commitment from Wilbur to be worthy of his redemption, to put effort into being a better person.

Eret made Wilbur confront the fact that self flagellation does not solve anyone’s problems. Wilbur has a tendency to wallow in his self loathing and make nothing of it, insisting that he is unworthy and therefore incapable of positive change. Eret forced Wilbur to acknowledge that he is not evil, that he is more than capable of being the man he once was.

By throwing away their crown, Eret showed Wilbur they were more than just the King. Eret showed him they were committed to change, they would not trade the lives of their friends for power again. Disposing of the TNT along with the crown symbolized Wilbur choosing to be better, choosing to avoid the kinds of behaviors that led to November 16th and Ranboo’s death in Hitting on 16.

However, believing Eret to be completely in the right is equally dismissive of the story: they are both flawed, hurt people. Eret incorrectly believes power corrupted Wilbur the way it corrupted them, projecting Wilbur’s actions and attitude on the 16th back to his early presidency. Eret sees a “madman”, not the character the audience watches whose monologues reveal a 7 layer dip of issues.

Eret has only their own observational knowledge of the severity of Wilbur’s mental health crisis. They presumably suspected Wilbur was suicidal on the bridge, where they pull him back from his contemplation of just throwing himself off the bridge, but they likely do not know the extent to which he believes himself unworthy of being loved or respected. How Wilbur would choose to act from then on is not on Eret.

If you think they have both been dragged through the mud for their actions, and deserve redemption divorced from the forgiveness of others—with the understanding that doing so gives both parties an attempt at closure—then I am kissing you on the mouth. Because I do not have to be a therapist to tell you that relying on other’s opinions of you is an unhealthy way to maintain your own self esteem.

A crucial part of apologies that is often forgotten is making the effort to repair the relationship and fix the problem. Eret can’t undo the Final Control Room, and Wilbur can’t possibly undo all the wars, but they both made a commitment to each other with the TNT and crown.

#prd talks #fandom critical #c!eret critical #c!wilbur critical #button duo #dream smp analysis #wilbur #eret #it’s a little Wilbur centric because I am also Biased about the Blorbo #i fucking love this stream man

[imsosocold]

DSMP but you’re a reluctant traitor to Manburg

#there’s probably spelling errors and stuff I don’t care #i blacked out #and woke up with this #i genuinely don’t remember the process the fuck #c!wilbur critical #c!quackity critical #pogtopia critical #lmanburg critical #l’manburg critical #c!tommy neg #dsmp #dsmp meme #dsmp civilian meme #I’m a bit regressed rn I think and it shows

[countryfriedcatboy]

okay okay okay but. c!eret did deserve to go off a little bit because while cwilbur has just been running around saying sorry and then dipping. ceret has actually put time and effort and used her actions to attempt to atone for what shes done.

also another point is. ceret gets a lot of hate for their past for idk not no reason (she definitely did fucked up shit by leading 4 people to their death and smiling while doing so) but like. even years after that she still faces this like ‘trend of mistrust from a good portion of the server. she was the one who set the dominos in motion (egged on by good old green boy ofc). cwilbur has gotten off ‘relatively’ (emphasis on relatively) well in this particular aspect. but like idk im rambling

#phase weeps #c!wilbur critical #just in case #eret #the eret #c!eret

[apple-but-sour]

Someone who's actually civil wants to hear my side on why I think c!sam, c!Quackity, and c!Wilbur are abusers and I vaguely have examples but everything's going blank 😭 do you have examples

I mean c!Q and c!Sam should be pretty obvious. The torture, c!Sam starving c!Dream (implied throughout the arc and explicit after Tommy was killed and before he was let out), don't forget c!Ponk for Sam. For c!Wilbur most debate is about whether he was abusive in Pogtopia but I think his most despicable actions towards c!Tommy are actually during the Elections Arc, specifically him punching c!Tommy off a wall and emphasizing he has power over him [X] and making him eat raw flesh as a "hazing" [X] + whatever the fuck this interaction is I cannot make sense of it to this day [X]. There's a very clear power imbalance in that arc and very obvious instances of c!Wilbur using his power to treat c!Tommy like shit.

For Pogtopia I'm like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ well he did somewhat demean c!Tommy (e.g. insisting he's never going to be president, tho later taking it back) and witnessing his spiral was traumatizing for c!Tommy but I can't point to any specific action there and say "this is abuse" with complete certainty. But I might not be a good judge of it.

#apple answers #anon #tw abuse #c!Wilbur critical

[phoibos-querella]

#only keeping him around when he has a use #SORRY #c!wilbur critical #dsmp #crimeboys #crime boys

[stellocchia]

So, I mostly talked about this in reblogs because lately I'm more into the Owl House than I am into dsmp, but I'm still interested in the story. Exclusively c!Tommy's story by now, but still.

I want to see it end well. I want it to be satisfactory. I want him to either get a happy ending and manage to permanently get away from c!Dream or for c!Dream to win and for us to get the immortal primeboys ending no one but me wants but that we all definitely deserve.

Before that though, I need crimeboys story to get an ending. And, just like for c!Tommy's ending, I'm really hoping it will be good and satisfactory... but in this case, I doubt it will be.

Both cc!Wilbur and cc!Tommy CAN write. They proved as much before. But they aren't professional writers and this has been painfully obvious from the last few streams.

From setting up plot points that were then promptly dropped and forgotten to making a mess with the timelines and paying little to no attention when it comes to continuity (Link) they have made quite a few mistakes.

And that can happen and it can be fixed (giving any acknowledgment to what is supposed to be canon like mentioning that c!Dream is out of prison or literally, any mention of the events of ho16 would be enough to fix the timeline and continuity issues for example).

But what I'm worried about is a trend we've seen with these reconciliation streams they've done so far. Streams where, inevitably, characters that have no reason not to hate someone else's gut accept their crappy apology that leaves out half the shit the person has done and move on.

We've seen it with the c!Tubbo and c!Techno team up, we have seen it with c!Wilbur's apologies... literally all of them so far (I would only exclude the one to c!Techno because that one was bad for all different reasons, like the fact that it felt like, once again, retconning half the story to make c!Techno look good).

They receive no build-up. The character that is apologizing doesn't even acknowledge half the sh*t that happened but they're forgiven because that's what it's expected. Because every apology has to end in forgiveness no matter what.

And that's exactly what I don't want for crimeboys. Because they have one of the most wonderfully complex relationships in the dsmp and they quite frankly deserve better. Winking at the audience saying "just you wait, that apology you want IS coming, JUST YOU WAIT" is not build-up. We need proper communication and, more importantly, an effort on both sides to do better already BEFORE the apology.

Arguably, c!Tommy has been doing that. He's been helping c!Wilbur the best he can as he has always done, which is why my last point is gonna be mainly about c!Wilbur. He has to show he cares. If not to c!Tommy at least to the audience, at least when he's alone and with something more than nudges at "yeah, an apology is supposed to happen. Hang tight and maybe it will come". And we haven't had this so far, with any of the people he apologized to in fact.

Of course, if we get a half-assed apology we always have fanfictions to lean into, but it would just be a pity. Because as characters they do deserve better.

#dream smp #c!wilbur critical #dream smp critical #dream smp analysis #'long post' #c!tommy #tommyinnit #crimeboys #wilbur soot critical #it's been a while since I ranted about the dsmp huh? #quite a while #still been thinking about this lately

[considermygenderminecrafted]

Man fuck. I really do like, mourn for Wilbur in a lot of ways. There are a lot of worlds where things turned out better, and there are a lot of worlds where he learnt that love and care are not earnt before now.

There are worlds where he never tried to give Phil the honey back, There are worlds where whatever happened that made him rely so strongly on buildin power structures to feel safe didn't happen. There are worlds where Quackity sayin he never thought of him doesn't feel like dying. There are worlds where he was able to regret what he did, and feel guilty for his actions and move forward anyway without sinkin and spiralin and trying to double down. There are worlds where Tommy said he didn't want to talk about it and that was the end of the conversation. There haeve been turnin points on turnin points on turnin points. There are worlds where he got help and he got better and things weren't such a fuckin tragedy. He's been hurt really badly. He never got what he needed. Those are worlds we never got to see

But I have so much like.. pride n hope for him in this world as well??

We got this world, where he died because he was sad and his son doesn't want to talk to him (and it's okay, he's okay with it. He'll be alright if that's what Fundy needs even if he can't think about it right now-) and he was president of a nation losing it due to his own insolence, short-sighted naivete, disregard for his fellow citizens whom he claimed to love so much and a dark, twisted understanding of what was possession and what was his right. Where things are hard and he falls back into bad habits and he's still trying anyway.

Someone told him the world is cruel and the only way to get by is to grasp to control anyway you can, and he is havin to unlearn something that kept him alive up until now. That's not... pretty.

But he's fuckin tryin anyway. And he's doin it. He's gettin there. He fucked up with Tommy this time, he might not be ready to figure it out with Tommy yet- but he really is tryin to de-center himself in his apologises, and lettin go of the idea the only thing that will give him a chance at a future is forgiveness. It's swings and round abots, its ups and downs, it's not all roses but he keeps trying because he wants to get better and he wants things to be alright. I really do think he has every capacity to be alright and safe and happy and loved and cared for and to care. For all I say about Wilbur soot, for all the things he's done and will do I still thing he's fuckin brave for doin this anyway, for fuckin up and hurting people and confrontin that and tryin to do better despite it.

I'm lovin the apology tour arc so damn much

#is this... wilbur critical? #probs #i'll tag it anyway cause this is gonna end up in tags cause tumblr sucks #so may as well own it #c!wilbur critical #Wilbur soot #honey mention #food mention

[sunlitmcgee]

If you try to make any of the abusive DSMP characters into victims stay the fuck away from me. Especially if your way of doing so is to villianize the people they’re tortured.

Stay away if you defend c!Phil’s neglect of c!Wilbur and/or his dehumanization of Ghostbur.

Stay away if you defend c!Techno’s dehumanization of c!Tommy and/or his victim blaming during the bedrock bros arc.

Stay away if you defend c!Dream in any capacity whatsoever.

Stay away if you try to say c!Wilbur’s behavior during Pogtopia towards c!Tommy “wasn’t that bad” or if you villianize Tommy for being traumatized by it.

Stay away if you act like alchole was the sole reason c!Schlatt was a monsterous beastly abusive fuck and try to claim it’s harmful to call him as such.

If you try to make an abuser look like the victim while villianizing those they’re harmed, you’re an abuser worshipping piece of fuck and I don’t want anything to do with you. Fuck off. Feel bad about it.

#fandom critical #tw abuse #c!wilbur critical #c!phil critical #c!techno critical #c!schlatt critical #c!dream critical #tw victim blaming #they fictional abuser isn't gonna fuck you for worshipping them #all you're doing #is making life hell for real world victims

[tobi-smp]

Every time I see someone try to lean into the softness of the crimeboys ending it just makes it feel more cruel.

I see something like This

And it makes me think about how c!Wilbur leaving wasn't some quiet inevitablity or a sudden tragedy that nobody could have stopped, it was a choice.

Wilbur wasn't taken, not by tragedy and not by a person, he left. He left Knowing that the people he cared about weren't safe and weren't okay. And then he tried to present That as softness. Not just to us the audience, to the narrative, but to tommy.

And that's what needles me about people trying to present it this way, about it being presented as necessary and soft and healing.

Because wilbur's allowed to prioritize himself. he's allowed to say that he doesn't want to stay, that he doesn't want to be there to protect tommy or tubbo or fundy or anyone else, but he can't have his cake and eat it too. He doesn't get to make the choice to leave them at the mercy of an abuser and serial killer and expect them to be there when He's ready to have a relationship with them. He doesn't get to avoid being honest, to avoid talking about it at all, until he's skipping town to a new country and expect the trust to be there when He wants it.

Wilbur is under no obligation to stay, but tommy is under no obligation to forgive him. Wilbur is under no obligation to protect tommy from a monster, but choosing to abandon tommy with his serial killer abuser on the loose utilizing the power of a god Should erode whatever foundation that relationship had left.

It's not Fair to expect tommy to forgive him, that it's taken for granted that his trust doesn't have to be earned or nurtured. It's not fair that he's been abandoned and left behind and hurt time and time and time again and yet he always forgives, perpetually waiting for the chance to Earn being loved and being left behind anyways.

Letting his anger and sadness at wilbur go because there's nothing he can ever do to have his feelings respected wouldn't be Healthy. It's not the soft ending where everything's allowed to be okay. It'd be a link in a long pattern of unhealthy behavior.

Phil didn't have to apologize, in fact he told tommy to his face that he earned the trauma he gave him by being selfish and tommy not only Let him, but he tried to follow Phil's advice to Fix himself. Because he Needs somebody, Anybody to be there.

He refused to let tubbo apologize after exile because he saw Himself as a bad person, because he Believed that he wasn't worth saving. He held himself responsible for betraying techno before doomsday even started, despite techno being the one who lied to Him. Even if he'd been angry, even if he'd recognized that techno hurt him at first, he quietly let that anger go because techno was Never going to acknowledge that.

He's full of abandonment issues a mile deep and desperately Desperately wants to hold on to the people he cares about, but time and time again he's nobody's priority. Nobody will choose him no matter how desperately he needs it.

This will not teach him to not have abandonment or attachment issues, this will not make the genuine threat of being kidnapped and tortured for eternity go away.

The only thing worse than Wilbur knowingly choosing to leave him when he's in This vulnerable of a position, without even talking it through with him, is the idea that Tommy's not even allowed to be angry about it. That even if he Is angry now he just doesn't have the Perspective to know that it's a good thing yet and he'll Learn eventually.

Just like he Learned that he was selfish all along for wanting to protect his home and friends. Just like he Learned that he was an annoying child that just needed to be fixed.

Nobody has to put in the Work to earn Tommy's love and trust, he just has to realize that he never had the right to be upset in the first place.

#long post #c!wilbur critical #I just can't get this out of my head #its worse than what doomsday made me feel by a mile and it will not let me go

[lilyminer]

Little warning before I get started here: I’m gonna be talking about recent Wilbur dsmp lore from the perspective that c!Wilbur, despite his intentions, caused significant harm. While it isn’t my intention to paint him as the villain here, this analysis dips into some character neg/crit territory.

Also dsmp lore spoilers and mentions of abuse and suicide as you may guess

So, I’ve been thinking about the recent Wilbur lore a lot. As those who know me know by now, I’m not a huge fan of c!Tommy. Not that I don’t like him, he’s just not the character I primarily focus on. But the recent lore has made me empathize with him and his situation a lot, and I’d like to talk about my interpretation of it.

So to introduce the situation: the control Dream still has over Tommy in the items and connections Dream knows he has emotional attachments to is keeping him actively afraid. Of course as a victim of abuse Tommy is afraid of his abuser, but there are still things that Dream could at any moment use to draw Tommy closer to him against his better judgment. Tommy is in real danger of being abused by Dream again because, as an analogy Dream is the puppet master and Tommy isn’t able to cut all the strings that lead back to him yet.

Wilburs intention is to close off his relationship with Tommy by cutting the oldest and most well established string that Dream has used to drag Tommy back to him time and time again. He wants to free Tommy of this trap he has been falling into of fighting back and forth for the discs and making himself vulnerable. In my mind this does not free him entirely, Tubbo, his reputation and social standing, his home, all these things can and have been used by Dream. But the discs were a good, easy string to cut.

What Wilbur ended up doing in his plan to free Tommy was cause immense emotional pain, quickly solve Tommy’s problem, and then leave Tommy to process it all alone. Wilbur brought Tommy face to face with his abuser in a situation Tommy believed there was no escape from. He threatened to kill himself in front of Tommy, which he appeared to be very serious about. A situation that would leave Tommy alone with his abuser, trapped with him again. Then on top of all that Tommy believed for a time that his most precious personal possessions were gone for no real reason. After that in a few words Wil gave him the real discs and left him alone. Tommy has previously dealt with so much of his trauma completely alone, his story is seeped in all encompassing loneliness, and here he is again. He’s confused, and scared, and completely alone while he processes it.

Here I ask you, is it acceptable to prevent potential further harm with such a terrifying, most likely traumatizing event for the victim? My answer is no. Was even getting rid of the discs necessary? I- I don’t know? I’m not even sure if there was a better, more convincing way to get rid of them! But I believe even with the right intentions, Wilburs actions mean he is in the wrong. There is this feeling of how unnecessary and damaging this event must be I can’t shake. Wilbur is not meant to be a full villain, maybe a villain in the beginning of his redemption arc but not a villain. But I think there is an argument to be made that he is still, unintentionally emotionally abusing Tommy. I’m sure this is obvious to many of you but that is why this episode of Wilburs new lore is just like others, similar to Fundy’s even. He tries to apologize and do better, but he pushes too far and unintentionally makes things worse.

Edit (cuz I literally just forget a whole ass point I was gonna make): My theory is that Wilbur does not understand just how little simply removing the discs from the picture does to “free” Tommy because of his relationship to Dream. Wilbur is very good at hiding what he has to lose from his enemies. His emotional connections to things aren’t as out in the open, he plays it cool a lot of the time. He keeps his relationships to others hidden and his true emotions on things are hard to read as we learned when we found out he was breaking under the pressure of being president but not showing it. So he doesn’t understand the effect of being caught up in Dreams web.



#mcyt #dream smp #dsmp #wilbur soot #c!wilbur #tommyinnit #c!tommy #wilbur soot lore #dsmp lore #dsmp analysis #long post #c!wilbur negative #c!wilbur critical #c!wilbur neg #c!wilbur crit #wilbur soot neg

[shootingthe-stars]

that stream made me feel the same way as captain america’s ending in endgame did

#this is not a positive thing #c!tommy didn’t even get an apology bro #dsmp critical #c!wilbur critical #i think those tags work here #listen man i’m going through grief idk what to feel #like i feel bad for not liking it but i know i’m not the only one sooo