Anybody else just... big sad about Steve's character in the MCU?
Like Steve's one of my favorites but he also barely got any build up of his life. We know Thor and Tony's family life, but Steve is such a blank slate, which is so sad because there's so much to delve into.
He lived in poverty during the Great Depression, had an abusive/alcoholic father and a mother who wouldn't back down from any of the hits her husband gave her. She was the reason that Steve had his resilience, his iconic "I can do this all day." His mother always stood her ground and never stopped fighting, why should he?
But there's no acknowledgement at all to the people who raised him or the life he had to make him Steve Rogers. He was a child to Irish immigrants, which is a huge missed opportunity on Disney's part to show Captain America as an immigrant as opposed to classic born and raised "All-American."
And the parallels that could've existed with Tony! Crappy dads (and I will forever be sad about the amount of Howard Stark angst fics with Tony but absolutely none regarding Steve's relationship with his dad), growing up poor vs. being born rich, Catholic upbringing vs. atheist perspective, both being ostracized for being different, though Tony's because of his genius and Stark name, while Steve was because of his disabilities and background. Yet, somehow Tony's parents gets more screentime in Steve's movies than any of Steve's family.
And even after CA:TFA, there's still so much to go through. He's in a world that's unfamiliar to him, with everyone he knew dead or on their way there, and he's essentially a lone survivor of a bygone era. He's reached icon status among the United States public and doesn't take a break, jumping back into fighting once New York was attacked and never stopping.
Yeah, he becomes close with the Avengers, but it's clear he never really worked through anything he's gone through. Like when he was asked if he was happy and he could only respond with "I don't know." He never resolved his issues, from the trauma of his upbringing and the deaths of his parents to fighting in a war to losing his best friend to leaving the only world he'd ever known.
And when I see how it's only been him fighting battle after battle, trying to do the right thing and never acclimating, his ending in Endgame... makes sense.
It wasn't him deserting everyone, it was the end of a war that he's been fighting for years since he woke up from the ice. The war's over, and he could go home.
I will say, I've been inserting my own context for his ending to make it fit his character more how I see it. He talked with Bucky, who probably wanted to see him happy more than he wanted to keep him there. He also, as mentioned, isn't the type to stop fighting or sit idly by when things go wrong. So when he goes to Peggy, as much as he wants to settle down, he doesn't. Not for a while, at least. He makes sure Hydra isn't infecting SHIELD. He saves Bucky, and ensures that the Starks are alive (I also think he'd rip Howard a new one, at the very least because he had a bad father and wouldn't want the same for Tony). Natasha is saved from the Red Room. They're prepared for an attack by the Chitauri in 2012, and so a lot less people die. Thanos doesn't get the infinity stones, everything turns out better.
I also like to think that it makes far more sense if his desire for the past is not because he thinks the past is better than the future, but because he missed his chance to help make things better (also that, as I've experienced, sometimes even when something is bad, sometimes it feels better by virtue of it being familiar). I could totally see him wanting to help change things in the world for the better, and being hurt that so many suffered while he was frozen, when he could've done something if he was there for it.
Idk, I've been seeing a lot of people bash Steve for going back to Peggy, and while a lot of other characters have bad moments, they're written off as bad writing, but Steve just gets a lot of shit for it, being called selfish when I think it's just a result of him never getting any personal development through the movies. They don't even really explain his reasoning, so I tried to piece together a sensible one on my own.
The whole thing with sam and rhodey and every thing brings me so much pain and even though we saw them on good terms and I know they are military men and propably prepared for things like that I still want more of a reaction or something I don't know I might me rambling
Hi Nonny! Not rambling at all!
I, too, wish Sam and Rhodes had more of a chance to interact post Civil War. They’re both Black men in the Air Force but both with very different experiences in the military. They took different sides in a conflict between heroes but we never see them work it out even though they clearly did. Rhodes was disabled in that fight; it was absolutely not Sam’s fault that Vision hit Rhodes but you know Sam felt responsible, especially for not catching him.
Now for Rhodey, it’s been a lot longer than it was for Sam. Rhodes had to live through the Blip. He had to see everything fall apart, live everyday knowing they failed to stop Thanos and that even though they ‘fixed’ things, they lost so much and opened a whole new set of problems. Sam has to cope with the fact he was dead for 5 years and the world moved on without him. Sam lost Steve and Rhodes lost Tony - they both lost Nat (and Vision though that’s.... complicated). It would’ve been amazing if they had more screen time to work through this together. 😭😭😭😭
What if Civil War revealed that Zemo had a hand in the creation of the Sokovian Accords?
It isn't hard to imagine that he possessed / could easy gain significant political sway; he's a Baron,* a Colonel and he worked for Sokovian Intelligence. Moreover he survived the battle of Sokovia but lost his entire family; people would be inclined to listen to him.
I think adding that would make his plot in Civil War a little more cohesive overall, too.
*I'm 99.8% positive that Zemo wasn't necessarily intended to be a Baron in Civil War. But we can apply this knowledge retroactively.
1) Bucky’s emerging memories are likely unreliable bc they imply he was brought directly to Zola but Zola was captured by the Howling Commandos. Zola was, however, the original person who experimented on him and did so later so it’s not surprising he would fill in Zola’s face for miscellaneous techs or soldiers. This goes to show how disoriented Bucky would’ve been after he first escapes HYDRA. Not only are his memories emerging, they’re not in a clear chronological order. Some of the details are wrong. They come in flashes without context. Time skips forward. How the hell Bucky was able to function AT ALL is beyond me but those two years pre Civil War must’ve been dark af.
2) Bucky dissociates. This was probably a recurring problem immediately post HYDRA.
3) Judging by the number of armed guards with Bucky while repairs are being done to his arm, they’ve had trouble with Bucky’s behavior before.
4) It’s unclear what Bucky feels related to his arm. Clearly not pain but also tactile enough to function. Why was removing his shirt necessary? His arm is already uncovered in his tactical gear................. assessing other damage? Being creepy?
5) What’s that IV for? Hydration?
6) This scene really reinforces how hard it was for HYDRA to actually control Bucky. It clearly wasn’t just seeing Steve that caused problems. Being out of cryofreeze too long seems to diminish their control. Using ECT repeatedly seems to be the only way to ensure his serum brain doesn’t start to draw new connections. The trigger words end up as the failsafe method of control but seem to wear off after time. (We see that in CW when Bucky wakes up himself after being triggered - was it time elapsed, that he was KO’d?) It’s also unclear what Pierce meant when he said “prep him” and the tech said he was unfrozen too long.
7) Bucky is used to physical abuse from HYDRA. He doesn’t bat an eye when Pierce backhands him. The techs don’t ask him to sit back, they physically maneuver him. We see that again in CW post cryo. Bucky’s body really isn’t his own.
8) Despite all the methods to control him, Pierce still feeds Bucky HYDRA propaganda. We really don’t get an idea how much awareness Bucky has when he’s under. It’s also interesting he says “bridge” and not “overpass” or “freeway.” He clearly has enough awareness that they really sell him the party line and try to convince him he’s doing noble work. He even looks ashamed or dejected when Pierce says “if you don’t do your job, I can’t do mine.” And his objection to killing Steve isn’t that killing is wrong, it’s that he knows Steve personally. HYDRA clearly invested time in other ways to desensitizing Bucky to murder.
9) Even Rumlow looks a little queasy at Bucky’s torture.
10) While Bucky looks terrified of the wipe and seems to know what it means, he doesn’t yet have enough freedom to resist. It later takes everything he has to not kill Steve (Bucky definitely pulled his shots on the helicarrier). This is why I think Bucky 100% tried to go back to HYDRA after pulling Steve from the river but no one was there.
11) it’s super unclear why Pierce couldn’t just use the code words on Bucky after he’s “been out of cryofreeze too long” when Zemo had zero problems activating the Winter Soldier two years later.
The sad part about coming to a fandom 61816 years late is that finding all the good metas on Tumblr is hard lol. I’d watched all the movies but never felt fannish til Sam and Bucky got their own show and I was like oh. Oh okay. These two. I could become obsessed with them.
I missed all the good Bucky and Sam post CA:WS and CA:CW headcanons and theorizing.
Like what did Bucky do after pulling Steve from the river? Did he try to go back to HYDRA in a daze but no one was there so he was forced to deal with all the terrifying images in his head? How did he attend even basic human functions like food, shelter, hygiene with his limbic system that out of whack? How long did it take for him to be close to a functional human being? Why Romania? How close did Sam get? Why did he avoid Steve and was he ever going to reach out?
What was it like for Sam on the run? He was skeptical of the Accords and the Air Force discharged him, a organization he gave years to, lost Riley to. How did that feel? Was he ever bitter or disillusioned? How often was he with Steve or alone and how did Sam stay connected to his family during this time? How lonely was he and how did he take solace? Did he ever question his choices? What kind of missions did Fury send he and Steve on and how did Sam feel bc he never cared for the spy life? When did he start banging Steve?
I definitely find a lot of the Bucky picking out all the belongings in his Bucharest apartment metas to be cute, but ngl...
Almost everything in that dilapidated apartment was pre-furnished. The table and chairs, the shoddy couch, the kitchen utensils, the lamp. All came with the place. Man didn’t even have a TV.
Bucky brought whatever fit in a backpack, which was a dozen journals, weapons, a change of clothes, newspapers to read current events (and then cover the windows), and as much junk food as he could carry.
The only decorating I believe he actually did was maybe make those pallet and cinder block shelves. Free pallets!! Just for anyone to take! What a world.
I just realized that Wanda wasn’t included in the Civil War scene where Bucky escapes prison after Zemo activates the Winter Soldier because she would‘ve stopped him within seconds and the whole fight sequence wouldn’t have happened.