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#camilla and charles
delicatenerdbluebird · 2 months
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My Random Takes on The Secret History (contains spoilers)
The biggest tragedy that comes with being Richard Papen coded is you need a group like Julian's Greek class to feel normal about yourself because the rest of the world makes you feel like a misfit.
That Richard and Camilla scene where she reveals being physically abused by Charles... I feel that scene is a strong criticism of abusive households. Like Richard was used to seeing his mother getting beaten by his father and sometimes he was also a victim of his violence. And in 'that' scene, he fantasizes about doing the same to Camilla and worse. This shows it's a never-ending cycle no matter how you see it. The kids are gonna end up developing fucked up fantasies if their exposure to fucked up things is constant.
I strongly believe Henry was gonna make Richard the scapegoat had something gone sideways. And honestly, it makes perfect sense. Richard insisted on joining their class. He was an outsider. Henry could have easily made up something like Richard was envious of their group, he was jealous of his and Bunny's closeness and so he ended up killing him, something along those lines that Richard wanted to be accepted and we would not accept him instantly, naturally because of our prior history. Knowing how Henry was good with words, he could have made Richard an obsessive, disturbed freak to the FBI for all we know. Remember how Henry saved him from getting frozen to death? This incident can be perfectly used to portray him as a mentally disturbed person who would rather freeze to death than go back to his home to a normal eye.
Now Julian. Oh, Julian I knew was the red flag the moment it was mentioned he does not accept students who have different ideas than his. But to think that fucker would turn out to be the biggest crankiest bitch?!! I mean I am soo mad he was the one who fed those Dionysiac ideas to them and in the end, he just ran away?! I was baffled by how he treated Henry during that confession scene he did not even listen to him completely... Henry does not stutter HE WAS STUTTERING and Julian shoved the letter back to him... I mean the disrespect! This scene (for me at least) was a reality check that no matter how loving, cool, caring, and impactful you might think your teacher is, at the end of the day, they are gonna be a teacher and you are gonna be just a student. It destroyed my heart when Henry said he loved Julian more than his own father 😭 The worst thing you can do is take advantage of the vulnerabilities of someone who not only respects you but also loves you dearly. This mf can move mountains and I would still hate his old rat ass!
Charles and Camilla Idek what to make of them. Charles turned from a pitiable character to an entirely disgusting one for me. I accept Francis' theory that he wouldn't have made that much fuss about his interrogating situation if Camilla and Henry weren't a thing. Remember when Camilla and Henry had some secret code and he got mad why he didn't know about it? I do think camilla and henry were always a thing before it became apparent to everyone. Besides the book is from Richard's perspective, and he does seem oblivious at times.
I am not aware of the popular takes in the fandom so I don't know if this is gonna be a hot take or not but Camilla gave pick-me-girl vibes. She did not have any girl friends and looked down upon Judy (I am not asking them to be besties exactly but a little respect won't have killed) Judy only developed a weird impression about them during that party scene when Camilla dropped her drink onto her and did not apologize (or was it the opposite? i dont remember exactly but the point is Judy is not the type to judge others for no reason...she judged them after that party) Camilla's attitude could be attributed to the fact that Charles was controlling but idk
The Secret History reminded me of The Hollow Men by T.S. Eliot (some of the verses below):
We are the hollow men
    We are the stuffed men
    Leaning together
    Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
    Our dried voices, when
    We whisper together
    Are quiet and meaningless
    As wind in dry grass
    Or rats' feet over broken glass
    In our dry cellar
   
    Shape without form, shade without colour,
    Paralysed force, gesture without motion;
So basically I am yapping here because my friend hasn't finished tsh yet and I just needed to let it all out 😩
Not to mention I absolutely love my expensive gossip boy Francis 🥺 ☕
(Thank u for reading it this far!!)
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bigdaddypotatognocchi · 5 months
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re-reading the secret history and i forgot that my man henry winter didn’t know about the moon landing?
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astrum-aetherium · 9 months
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Do you think Henry and Camilla were actually in love?
the question of all questions has finally found its way into my inbox. i don't know how long this will be, but just know that i could write a novel-length essay supporting my opinion. here's a shortened version.
i've spent a long time entertaining this thought, specifically as someone who is undeniably (and evidently) attracted to henry in more ways than one. when i initially read the book for the first time in 2019, i obviously picked up on the clues donna tartt scarcely dispersed throughout the length of the novel (with the glass shard scene posing a final confirmation of her intentions for the two characters), and i must say, out of my naive and obnoxiously teenaged simplicity of perception, i did accept their (strangely established) love and even root for it; especially during henry's last scene — the actual, outspoken confession and the secret whisper — and camilla's consecutive rejection of richard's proposal with the claim she still loved henry.
however, i have matured now, read the book a few more times, and found reason to change my viewpoint completely. no, i no longer believe they were in love per se — let me elaborate. before i do, however, i have to put a TW for incest on here. it is unavoidable when talking of henry and camilla. therefore, beware. lots of mentions of incest-related trauma and the consequences thereof.
the realization that i disbelieve in their love being romantic struck me upon my first reread, because i somehow suppressed the actual outrage of camilla and charles' incestual relationship. of course, i remembered them to be romantically involved with one another, but having read the book anew at a slightly older age, i started comprehending the sheer extent of the trauma that may originate from something like that. there is an undeniable possibility of it having started as a form of abuse instead of something purely consensual (which incest very, very rarely is), and that has led me to believe that camilla, at least in future years to come, would no longer be attracted to men both romantically as well as sexually. this may very well be a response to her trauma.
here, of course, it can be argued that it was all consensual and would thus not result in trauma, but i wholeheartedly disagree with that. incest, being taboo and socially unacceptable for very plausible reasons, would generate trauma regardless of the degree of willingness the participating parties portray. that is, of course, given the parties are aware of the taboo aspect of it in the first place, which charles and camilla obviously were. however much i believe it did not, in fact, start as something consensual (once again — it very rarely does), i understand where one might be coming from with claims that it did, as this is all fiction and we simply have no possibility of knowing for sure.
to cut this tangent short — i believe camilla would develop into a lesbian based on her incest-related trauma and would therefore simply mistake her "love" for henry for devotion to his authoritative and mystifying charms and leadership skills. she would believe to be in love with him because she would simply be unaware of her sexuality just yet, given she was still participating in incestuous activity with her twin brother, and would instead seek solace in the company of another man who she does not have a familial bond with. after all, even she and francis had a small little thing (a kiss from what i can remember), and he himself is openly queer.
as for henry, this is where things get a little more complex. i sort of deride his attraction to camilla, however real it may have been, as she is, after all, the only girl in their circle. of course, i keep thinking, of course everyone will be going after her. that poor thing — not even safe from her own brother.
from henry's point of view, i think he just projected the conventionally instilled idea of finding a partner to settle down onto the first intelligent woman he came across who matched his quite specific interests. and this is not to say that camilla cannot be loved for any other reason, but i simply, honestly and truthfully, find it hard to believe that henry would ever genuinely love someone. i know that we all like to believe that he has a soft side, but i more often than not don't. he does, after all, portray antisocial and even psychopathic tendencies. and people suffering from personality disorders like that are unlikely to ever perceive authentic emotions. i think his supposed love for camilla is a result of a conventional belief being applied to encountering someone who is so similar to you interest-wise that you initially feel like they are the one. he may have felt subconsciously "forced" to find a life partner, as that is the traditional standard for humanity that even his deviant mindset cannot undo.
this is what i honestly think. trauma-induced, misinterpreted, misplaced feelings for an authoritative figure juxtaposed with a misapplied, subconscious manifestation of a conventional belief. perhaps platonic love, but certainly not romantic; strong — yes, may as well, but not romantic or, for that matter, sexual (once again, due to trauma).
i do hope this communicates my position on the matter well. thank you for asking. i enjoyed gathering my thoughts and phrasing them in conclusive sentences at last.
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sinsinsitty · 3 months
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After reading the secret history on Christmas break I don't think I'm ready to go back to school
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mo0nagedaydr3am · 2 months
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just finished reading the secret history and what the actual hell was that
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tovaperson · 2 years
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I still think about the part where Richard describes Camilla’s hair against the grey sky!!!! And i can’t strop drawing profiles so here she is <3
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millamountbatten · 4 months
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Charles and Camilla in the back of a car.
(1975)
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marchrun · 1 year
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richard: and then francis kissed me
henry: well what’d you do?
richard:
richard: well i’m not gonna not kiss him back
henry:
richard:…just out of habit you know !!
literally everyone: you’re so gay bro
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booknerdragon · 7 months
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Not Henry going round and traumatizing his friends pouring piglet blood on their heads
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He’s a ten but he killed a man and had a ritualistic orgy with his nerdy friends…
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shipcestuous · 7 months
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(submission)
Remember that time Richard Papin — who’s default setting is being a disaster bisexual who thinks all of his friends are hot and enviable — admitted he was a bit turned on by the idea of the Macaulays’ relationship?
“You must have had some idea [about Charles and Camilla’s relationship].”
“No,” I said, though actually I had, from the time I’d first met them. I’d attributed this to my own mental perversity, some degenerate vagary of thought, a projection of my own desire because he was her brother, and they did look an awful lot alike, and the thought of them together brought, along with the predictable twinges of envy, scruple, surprise, another very much sharper one of excitement.
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lynx-281 · 1 year
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I wonder sometimes, if the people who have read the secret history and do fanart of the characters (specifically camilla and charles) choose to ignore some of their described appearances on purpose, or if they just picture them way differently and aren't trying to draw them accurately.
If we look at fanart of Camilla and Charles for example we can always see them with VERY light blonde hair, but if we take a look at the description in the book they are described with "heavy dark blond hair".
(This post is essentially just me being picky with the appearances of book characters)
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camchuckforever · 2 years
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Okay okay okayyyyy I got bored and did a thing. I’ve always been sad about the fact that the Duchess of Cornwall’s mom passed away almost thirty years and never got to witness the world coming to love her daughter. Especially the wedding, I mean cmon that would have been so precious. So I did a boop. I still am playing with the colors though.
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wisdomcamilla · 2 years
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okay gang i'm really slacking with my book reviews so...The secret history! Finished this book a couple of days ago and omg. It has (and very quickly became) become one of my absolute favourite books.
I wasn't sure if I was going to like it! I didn't really know anything about it but bought it because I recognised it.
It is amazing. The writing is genuinely insane, it's some of the best writing I have ever read! The dialogue is realistic and, especially in the case of Julian's lessons, beautiful. I love the storyline, it was super interesting and kept me engaged (plot twist at the end omg!).
I seriously recommend this book. To everyone. But especially to my fellow dark academia readers.
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prideprejudce · 3 months
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me in buckingham palace dancing naked to 'murder on the dance floor' after i infiltrate the royal family and pick them off one by one until i am the last one left
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