the contrast between yang returning with the lamp and cinder returning with both the staff and the lamp is certainly something.
yang takes the elevator back up before descending down the stairs to meet qrow, giving the lamp to him immediately. qrow asks what happened, and yang gives the short version which is technically true, but she's obviously omitting information as well.
cinder descends down the stairs but doesn't get the chance to leave the vault via the elevator because salem arrives. salem doesn't even need to say a word before cinder sets to explain, sprinkled with false details, what went down, offering the relics to salem only at the end of her explanation.
the main thing being how neither of them are being exactly truthful, but the way they go about it stands out; yang gives the bare minimum amount of information so no one can accuse her of blatantly lying, while cinder puts up a performance of the century, mixing up truths and lies so well that recognizing which one is which is not an easy task.
If/when Cinder and Emerald see each other again, I really hope Emerald brings up the fact that she saved Cinder’s live in V8.
Because Penny was prepared to kill her.
Emerald protected her like Penny would for any of her friends, and this is why Penny lets them go, she isn’t a killing machine she’s a protector with a soul. If Penny was a heartless killing machine, she wouldn’t have stood down and allowed Emerald to escape with Cinder.
Emerald should tell her Penny was about to kill her and she saved her life, then ask her why she doesn’t seem to care, did everything she had done for her mean nothing? It’s entirely possible that Cinder doesn’t understand why Emerald even did that in the first place. From Cinder’s perspective, she doesn’t believe in unconditional love or friendship, especially when it’s directed towards her. It may have meant something to her, but her past tells her that Emerald is only doing it for herself or will leave/betray her. Cinder probably doesn’t understand selflessness or kindness without wanting anything in return. Part of me thinks Cinder doesn’t understand why Emerald cares so much about her. It really disappoints me that V8Ch6 is the last time they’ve interacted on screen, I do wish more happened in that scene before Mercury walked in.
I also can’t stop thinking about this scene, you can’t tell me Cinder wasn’t affected by Emerald not only still being alive but betraying her. Whether you believe Cinder cares about her or not, I think it’s undeniable that Cinder trusted her a great deal (the same could probably be said about Mercury as well). I think no matter if Emerald is backed up with ORN, or faces her alone, it’ll be an emotional scene. And honestly I love emotional scenes with villains because I like seeing their more vulnerable side, that’s something I’d love for Cinder. I’d also like to see a little more angry Emerald too. This doesn’t HAVE to lead to Cinder redemption, but I just disagree with this notion that Cinder must be kept away from Emerald at all costs. It’s as if people don’t want to admit Cinder is more than just Emerald’s abuser, like she’s just like Adam. At worst Cinder just never reciprocated Emerald’s feelings and slapped her. She expected obedience when in reality she never really had control over Emerald (or Mercury for that matter) they just went along with her either because they felt indebted to her or they wanted a place to belong.
Edit: Forgot to add this: I wonder what Ren will see if he uses it on Cinder. He probably wouldn’t care either way because she kinda killed his friends and teammates. But it would be interesting.
These drawings of Raven and Cinder from the RWBY art book are my everything rn
blackswan, pirate au, T
Her first miserable night on board the ship, Willow slept under a table.
hi i posted chapter 2 of the blackswan pirate au come meet the cast :’D
Mafia Boss Cinder hired a babysitter named Ruy to take care of her daughter. One time, Cinder came back to find Ruby peacefully putting the baby to sleep and she decided then to make a move on the babysitter.
Cinder watched quietly from the doorway as Ruby put her daughter down to sleep. After being told for months that hiring Ruby as a live-in babysitter was a bad idea, she couldnt bring herself to see this as a mistake. Though, it did bring up a few questions in the back of her mind. The first being why the girl was so eager to drop everything to do this. Sure, Ruby’s services werent needed often, and while it was easier to offer Ruby a room in case anything came up on short notice, it still concerned her. Then, there was the question of what Ruby knew. “Seems like little Ashe has taken a liking to you.”
“I think she’s been getting used to the idea that I’ve been living here.” Ruby finished tucking Ashe in and turned towards Cinder. She gave her a quick smile. “I’m just glad to be able to help.”
“Is that why you were so eager to jump onto this job?”
“You heard me.” Cinder slowly walked over to Ruby. “When I first hired you as a babysitter, you didnt ask any questions. Then, when I asked if you could live with me in case I needed you if anything came up, you dropped your whole life to be here. You allowed yourself to be a nanny instead of taking your life into your own hands. But the same question has been on the back of my mind all these months about it: why? Why would a girl like you, someone who has their whole life ahead of them, so willingly throw it away for blind loyalty?”
Ruby took a step back and felt the wall behind her. She let out a soft gasp as she realized just how close Cinder was. “W-well… I couldnt… say no-”
“And why couldnt you?” Cinder gently put a hand to Ruby’s cheek as a smirk crossed her face. “You’re smart, pretty, cant be much older than your early twenties… So tell me, what makes someone like you drop your whole life and unable to say no to someone like me?”
“Because… you were… the first person to give me somewhere to belong…” Ruby said quietly, practically shrinking as she spoke. “And I couldnt say no to that.”
The smirk faded from Cinder’s face, replaced by a small frown. “So, are there others who mistreat you?”
“No, more like… I didnt exactly have direction before and didnt exactly belong anywhere. But here, helping you and your daughter, it gave me a place to be. A direction to go.”
Cinder mulled over Ruby’s answer and pulled back. She looked the girl over, a few of her questions put to ease. “In that case, I think we’ll have plenty to discuss over dinner.”
“Over… dinner?” asked Ruby, slightly confused.
Cinder turned and started walking away. “Tomorrow, you and I are going on a date. I’ll have a dress sent to your room. Make sure to provide me with your measurements by tomorrow morning so I can make certain the dress will fit. I’ll tell you when and where to meet me. I have a meeting tomorrow with one of my… associates… and I’m not sure how long it’ll take. Is that understood?”
“I’m glad you wont disappoint.”
Watching/listening to the RWBY Volume 8 commentary (something I recommend doing for all volumes btw), when they came to the episode with Cinder's backstory they explained their intention as making us "kinda feel bad for Cinder, but not completely sympathize" with her. So contrary to what the "male authority figures bad, angry evil females actually good" crowd believes, I'm starting to think a Cinder redemption arc has more or less been thrown out the window.
I disagree with your conclusion, but I do agree that the sentiment does highlight what I see as an example of misreading among the fandom.
For why I disagree, I have a rule: never ever ever ever take creator commentary without a shaker of salt. No creator is going to give away secret future twists in a statement, and sometimes they outright lie. See for example Horikoshi Kohei once saying that Shigaraki couldn't be redeemed, when he is now being redeemed. Creators trying to explain their works face an impossible task and often contradict themselves, because we use stories to explore complex ideas a lot of the time. To quote Dostoyevsky:
“Don't let us forget that the causes of human actions are usually immeasurably more complex and varied than our subsequent explanations of them.”
But this principle aside, I think you're missing context. The context of the Volume 8 commentary is, well, Volume 8. Cinder seemed to be on a precipice here and made choices that led to her spiraling further into villainy. Of course you want to set up sympathy, but you're not going to have the audience screaming for her redemption right before she makes a horrible choice (or series of horrible choices). That's not a great writing choice.
Sympathy for a character must matter; to quote a Jenny Nicholson, the worst thing a work can do is make fans feel stupid for caring in the first place. If they are asking us to care about Cinder, even if not excuse her, I very much think that's in line with redemption.
However, I also have been saying over and over that I do not think Cinder will survive her redemption, and this quote kinda reinforces that to me (with grains of salt!)
I've talked about this at length before, but just to reiterate: I'm not against redemptive death even if it is one of my least favorite tropes; the reason it's a least-favorite trope and gets pushback lately is because it's become not only over-used but cheapened (as in, the set up is not specifically for this, and the writer is clearly just taking an emotional punch and avoiding answering other difficult questions like what if they survived?). I don't think this will be the case with Cinder. I'm not opposed to her surviving; the set up currently though, what with Cinder having a major role in the two major tragedies so far (both with her killing girls who are associated with red, just like Cinder is) doesn't look good. Plus, I think the set up is for Emerald and Mercury to survive their redemptions, and hence those pesky forgiveness questions will not necessarily be avoided.
But! As I said earlier, I do think your ask highlights the fandom issue. I think RWBY is the Twilight Zone of fandoms: I've never seen a fandom have such double-standards for male characters. Every other fandom, the female characters are the ones that get the double standards. And I know there is a subset of dudebros on YouTube and Rebbit (probably?) who probably still embody this, and are still licking their fragile toxic masculinity after RWBY deconstructed it and the girls in heels and short skirts sometimes are ending up with other girls instead of them.
This fandom, though... I'm sometimes baffled by how Mercury is treated in comparison to Cinder. Like, I know he has less development, but his backstory is such a punch, and every time he appears on screen his conflict is built up, that I am sometimes stunned that the woobifying is placed on Cinder and not on him--and like, by all means woobify both, but sometimes I see analyses that literally pit Emerald + Cinder against Mercury as Redeemable vs Irredeemable, and that is just textually wrong. Merc's the one who has the extreme wooby backstory and is likely to end up friends with RWBY+JNOR. He has the set up to survive redemption. He's clearly an abused child still being abused. Like, he's Cinder trapped with the Madame, wherein his Madame is Tyrian and Salem, and he has no Rhodes. I do not like this. I do not like this at all.
Like, Mercury gets called out on smiling after Beacon's destruction as an example of how he's truly sadistic while people handwave Cinder's murder of Pyrrha--which was fully unnecessary, by the way, because Pyrrha was already defeated. Cinder just killed her because she wanted to kill her for... reasons. I'm not saying write texts on how Cinder is the worst or anything; I love her and think she's going to ultimately be the one who saves everyone, but my goodness, be intellectually honest with yourselves.
Anyways. I do think the fandom has issues, though honestly those issues are probably reactionary and caused by legit pain (how female and queer characters are treated in 99% fandoms). But that doesn't make these reactionary takes textually supported or fair, or even not uncomfortable in their real world subtext (male abuse victims... do face obstacles in having their pain recognized).
signs you might be a cinwin shipper: you draw winter with her nose scar even though it’s clearly been healed
I am once again asking people to stop downplaying or outright dismissing Emerald’s abuse at Cinder’s hand.
Hearing a single slap does not take away the implications, nor does it take away the emotional abuse, the psychological manipulation, the verbal abuse, the many times that Cinder took advantage of Emerald’s devotion to her, shaming Emerald for thinking and acting on her own, her very blatant disdain of her, taking away her free-will, telling her that she can’t even think, isolating her.
These are all very real abuse tactics. And Cinder used them to abuse Emerald.
For Faunus Cinder, why not make her a type of bird Faunus? We haven't seen any bird Faunus yet. It's also a reference to Cinderella and it could play into the blue-purple feathery trinket she always carries around. Like, she could be wearing it as a reminder for why she does the things she does. A constant reminder of the pain she felt. Made from her very own feathers. Or it could be something she wears to remind herself of how powerful and beautiful she felt before it was violently taken away.
now wait this is a god tier concept —
Do you have any more parallels with Yang and Cinder?
oh i have a whole list:
- they both lost an arm to a rose-themed warrior with a black-and-red color scheme.
- interestingly enough, when yang lost her right arm, the world turned black, but when cinder lost her left arm, it turned white.
- they both have a recovery arc at the same time, exploring stuff like the fear they have in regards to their new arms, and strength/power during their training; tai's advice to yang can be summed up as "strength isn't everything in a fight", while salem tells cinder to stop holding back with her powers.
- part of their development is learning to fight/operate in smarter ways, not just relying on pure strength, cinder just learns it later than yang.
- when they leave home, it's to find raven, because raven has something they need.
- yang needs raven to open a portal to qrow so she can get to ruby faster, while raven tells cinder she wants qrow dead which leads to ruby being brought up as well.
- raven offers a different deal to both of them, but yang actually gets what she needed in the first place without compromising anything, while cinder needs to accept that offer and compromise to get what she came for. (both yang and cinder end up walking through a portal in the end, anyway.)
- cinder fights raven, loses and doesn't get the relic, ends up falling down into the darkness, separated from her allies. yang fights raven, wins and gets the relic, rising back into the light to reunite with her friends and family.
- this gets somewhat reversed in V8, though some of yang's friends and family get yeeted into the darkness with her, while cinder still loses/gets rid of her allies even though she got the relics this time around.
- then there's the whole "giving explanations while giving the relics away" thing i just talked about here.
i think that's most of the story stuff, but i might have forgotten something while trying to make this as cohesive and non-rambly as possible.
the rest is more non-story character stuff: they're both fire-themed, reflected in their semblance names (burn, scorching caress). yang's weapons are called ember celica, quick translation being "heavenly ember" which brings to mind the sun, thus daytime. cinder's weapons are called midnight, so ya know, nighttime = moon. yang's emblem is also a burning heart full of color, while cinder's emblem has an empty heart, formed by the two glass slippers.
i guess you could also make a point how they have somewhat similar personalities in that they're both quick to anger, and they have a need to appear strong to hide their vulnerabilities from others – which often translates to getting angry first if it's about a topic they would rather not want to talk about.
I wonder if Cinder’s Vacuo outfit will have elements of her Vytal Festival outfit.
This is probably her most underrated design, and it gives me that desert explorer vibe (even though she claimed to be from Haven/Mistral).
ʏᴏᴜ ᴛᴜʀɴᴇᴅ ʏᴏᴜʀsᴇʟғ ɪɴᴛᴏ ᴀ ᴍᴏɴsᴛᴇʀ, ᴊᴜsᴛ ғᴏʀ ᴘᴏᴡᴇʀ
One of the reasons that Cinder is my favorite villain in RWBY is that her own moral beliefs are skewed horrendously. This isnt saying that she has no morals or that she's completely evil, but more on the idea that Im not sure she actually understands what is good and evil or what truly is right and wrong.
Like, its been clear since volume 3 that she believes what she's doing is right because the huntsman academies are a failing system to her, and since then, its become more and more clear that she's done everything she can to survive a broken system, and the one person that could've helped her understand what should be right or wrong, essentially told her to wait out in the broken system she was in and continue taking the abuse and torment and wait 7 years to go to a huntsman academy. Then, that same person essentially condemned her for slipping up and making a serious mistake.
So at this point, everything she's done is purely off "what's going to help me survive and get/keep the power needed to be free?" So while most people see her actions as wrong or even evil, her moral compass and ideas of right or wrong are so far skewed, everything she's doing she sees as right because she doesn't know any different. She was condemned as evil and wrong and never looked back, giving into her anger and then was more than likely found by someone who absolutely enabled her actions and anger.
Which, ironically, has given Cinder less freedom than she thinks she has. Especially now that she has a collar in the shape of an arm.
A Cinder Sketch for my Fic.
I’m not the biggest Spicecream shipper out here, but I’d be lying if I didn’t say that Cinder and Neo look aesthetically cool together.
You don’t see it too often in RWBY, the other best example in my opinion is Blake and Yang
I think originally they were designed to compliment one another.