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freakadr0id · 2 years

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Oh my GOD, I just realized why Donnie acts so weird in Man vs. Sewer. I always thought his behavior was odd in that episode, particularly in his nonchalance towards finding and saving Raph - but I had the most random thought occur to me during work that TOTALLY explains it. I'm sure some people have probably pointed this stuff out already, but I wanted to put this out there anyway.

The episode 'Man-vs-Sewer' is a personal favorite of mine. I love the episodes where the boys are just goofing off, and this episode is that plus some. We see get to see the boys having fun for a bit at the start of the episode, but it also adds a bit more depth to some of the turtles. We see a really surprising side to Raph's character with his fear of being alone, and Leo gets to shine a bit as a leader and hint at his true potential.

However, I was always a bit puzzled by the way Donnie and Mikey were written in this episode. As a rule, Rise is pretty good about keeping its characters, well, in character, so their behavior struck me as kind of strange, particularly Donnie's.

If there is one thing Rise NAILS about Donnie's character is showing that despite struggling with emotions and empathy, he is still NOT AN ASSHOLE. Donnie genuinely and deeply loves his family - he just has a hard time expressing it externally.

'Man-vs-Sewer' kind of stood out to me as an exception to that, however. At this point, Donnie's care for his brothers is an undisputed fact, so why does he seem so unconcerned about finding Raph after being separated? Even for Donnie, this seems like an ooc level of indifference towards the well-being of his brother (at least that's how I saw it).

Except, it isn't. In fact, this episode only reinforces that Donnie does care for his family, it's just a *bit* harder to see here.

One thing many neurodivergent people struggle with is a sudden change in plans. When they expect to do something that day it can be very difficult for some neurodivergent people to deal with it emotionally and can lead to immense frustration or even shutdowns. Since Donnie is confirmed to be, at the very least, autistic coded, this would absolutely apply to him as well.

The turtles planned to have a nice, relaxing day floating along New York's sewers and enjoying a small break from all the stress of finding the Dark Armor. No fighting, no mystic metal, no foot clan. Just a calm day of fun without a care in the world - only for it to be ruined by a bad pass and a lost brother.

I know if my plans were ruined like that, I would be in an absolutely FOUL mood. It can be hard to transition into a different mindset when the expectations for the day change like that, and it can make anyone frustrated, but Donnie doesn't appear to be that way. In fact, he's acting extremely casual.

Even though everything he was going to do today was upended and his brother is now missing in the New York sewers, why does Donnie seem so unconcerned about the whole situation?

Answer: It's a coping mechanism.

It would be very easy for him to be a bit more annoyed and frustrated at the whole situation (I definitely would be), but he isn't. Instead, he avoids getting overwhelmed and emotional by continuing through the day as if nothing has really changed.

The whole time they are finding Raph, Donnie behaves as if they are still on a peaceful, carefree mini-vacation. He makes snide jokes and jabs toward Leo, enjoys the drinks he brought in his shell, and constantly reminds the others that it is his "day off." If he can act as though he's still relaxing, it becomes easier to adjust to unexpected alterations in his day. This isn't Donnie being willfully inconsiderate towards Raph being lost and alone, this is just him trying to manage with the sudden changes the best he can in that moment.

If Donnie really was an uncaring asshole (as some may be inclined to believe given his apparent lack of empathy), he simply would have resumed their original plans, or been more vocally resistant to going after Raph. Instead, he joins his brothers in their search, and although he may not provide the best input for finding Raph because of his coping method (his brain is in "day off" mode which is why he keeps missing clues about Raph), he is still making an effort.

In a way, the episode which I thought portrayed a slightly out-of-character version of Donnie actually provides yet another example of how Donnie really loves his brothers, despite how it may seem on the surface.

~-~-~

(Actually, depending on the way you interpret his character, the same can be said for Mikey in this episode as well. Mikey is always a bit of a goofball in the show but in this episode, it is dialed up to 11. He also doesn't seem to much care or effort into finding Raph and acts like a child who managed to snag one of their parents' energy drinks. If we consider that maybe he is also struggling to adapt to the changes of the day, this could be him adopting a similar coping method to Donnie, it is just amplified because of his hyperactive behavior and personality.)

#damn I am continually impressed with how well Rise writes Donnie #seriously there are so many ways they could have really butchered his characterization #esp. as an autistic/autistic-coded character #but 9 times out of 10 the writers show that they *get* Donnie #and that they take time to consider how they portray his character in a healthy and positive manner #they have a couple missteps here or there #but overall Donnie is written just brilliantly #I hope I explained this well enough #I'm kind of thought dumping after this came to me in a vision during work #and I HAD to make this after I got home #shit this ended up way longer than I intended #rottmnt #rise of the tmnt #rottmnt donnie #rise donnie #rottmnt donatello #rise donatello #analysis #character analysis #I guess #not my greatest work #but it'll do #let's play the 'will it show up in the tags game?'

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chirpsythismorning · 22 hours

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Fun fact: In the original pitch for Stranger Things, El had a little brother.

After being rejected by almost 20 studios for the Montauk pilot, the Duffers were finally green-lit by Netflix. It was at this time that they began casting and then writing the first season officially, which included reworking a lot of that first episode.

This led to the removal of the brother reference, and with it, removing any sort of arc El could have had about her apparent brother.

But the thing about this moment, is that it might not have been scrapped entirely...

Going into the final season, no one can explain why or how El recognized Will back in 1x02. And while there are plenty of things on the show that are left unexplained, with a small portion likely left that way with the intention to uncover it later, what sets this moment apart from the rest is that there are very few possibilities here.

Because for starters, the story presents El's ability to see people in the void in s1 as requiring either a picture of that person for reference, or having met that person before.

But when El see's this picture of Will, she's never met him before. Or maybe she has, but we wouldn't know because they never showed us. They could have just not done this scene at all, given that it's clearly a copy/paste/edit of something scrapped from the pitch. Or they could have even still included it, but explained it.

One explanation could be that the lab had shown El a picture of Will before, similar to what they did with the Russian agent they wanted to spy on. But then that begs to question, why would the lab show El a picture of Will? Why would they want to see what he was doing? That alone is incriminating in and of itself, implying that Will is more connected to the lab than we realize.

The only other, and frankly most likely explanation, would be that El stumbled across Will at some point on her journey between escaping the lab and Will going missing. This is actually something that happens in The Other Side comic, which explores all the things Will may have experienced during his time in the Upside Down.

Though it’s worth noting the comics aren’t technically canon, and I highly doubt they would outright spoil everything in relation to Will’s time there, years before it was intended to be revealed. But still, let's humor this for a moment given that I do think Will's time in the UD is going to be very relevant in s5, which means it's highly likely they will finally address how exactly El saw him.

Basically, in the comic, Will see’s El walking through the woods, almost apparition like, glowing as she passes by, while also sporting the Benny’s burgers shirt. This means they would have crossed passed within a short span of time, between when El escaped Benny’s when the agents arrived, but before she was found by the boys.

Though it’s worth noting that we’re seeing this all from Will’s perspective. This means from the UD, Will was capable of seeing El on the other side, despite them being on different sides. And not only that, but she also looks back at him.

What confuses me about this, is that it doesn’t make sense for El to be in the woods, only to randomly decide to pop in to the void for a moment. She was trying to escape the lab and everything that came with it. I doubt she had any desire to lurk back there for some reason, not until someone encouraged her to. Not to mention, it would make no sense for her to go there and see Will if she wasn't even looking for him in the first place. And so this would mean Will and El could see each other, with Will being in the UD, and El being on the other side.

While it does seem pretty far off, given that you would think Will and El wouldn't be able to see each other from different sides, it is true in the story that El not only recognizes Will, but knows that he is in danger. She mentions that he is hiding specifically.

Which means she has likely seen him within the last 24 hours regardless.

This, in combination with Will being able to respond to El in the void at the end of the season in Castle Byers, when no one else outside of Terry and flayed-Billy have been able to, seems to imply that there is indeed something special about Will that makes him capable of communicating with El from the UD. Not only that, but El also seems to have an ability to be in this constant knowing state of how Will is doing, without even checking again to confirm. She's just certain of it. And she seems terrified about it.

Going forward, El never uses a picture of Will to find him. She never did. And more often than not, they don’t show us what she see’s either, not until the very end. And that’s the moment they reveal that he was able to communicate with her.

Again, there was really no reason to have El recognize Will. If anything it complicates things. But the fact that they chose to introduce this concept, with a scene from the original pitch that was related to El’s younger brother, with her pointing at his name cryptically, startling Benny, only to revamp it and have El not say anything at all while pointing at the picture of Will, startling Mike… It just really makes you stop and think.

Which brings me to the other aspect of this that might have people doubting, which is that El’s brother was originally younger than her.

We know Will is not younger than El, so how could this apply to him?

Well, it might be helpful to consider that in the original script, El was actually 10 years old, while the boys were always 12. Meaning that for some reason, they decided to age her up to the age of the boys, aka the same age as Will…

Ever since @erikiara80 shared this brother discovery with me, I have been sort of reeling. It then led to other little discoveries of changes they made between Montauk and Stranger Things.

It’s important to understand that the Montauk bible and the original script precedes what we ended up with in the final product, with it finally changing and evolving months, maybe even a year since that original vision. Even casting occurred before writing started for the first season. We know this because casting announcements were made in June and August of 2015, with writing not starting until August going into early 2016, simultaneously while they were filming.

And believe it or not, what I've discovered is that a lot of the changes they made between their original plans and what we see in the final product, have to do with not only Willel, but also Byler.

If you've read the original script for Montauk, you'll know that Mike's crush on Jennifer Hayes was focused on right from the jump, along with the birthmark on his face being focused on, which was the main cause of the bullying he experienced.

This has actually been talked about recently, and some of the claims people make do fit with what I am genuinely starting to consider here, which is that the initial plan for what makes Mike an outcast shifted.

I think when they completed casting, and started actually deep diving into what they wanted this world to look like, both from a short-term and long-term standpoint, they were presented with some pretty interesting discoveries, arguably already hiding in their initial plans without realizing it.

And this is where it sort of becomes a 'chicken or the egg' situation. Because which one came first? Byler or Willel?

I can't say for certain, because obviously this is all just speculation. But in the case that Willel came first, I think Byler would come very naturally after that.

The Duffers themselves are twins. Then they hire Noah, who is a twin. Then they're thinking and planning for El's past and how her family all fits into this, and they're thinking... wait a damn minute... We could totally Star Wars this bitch!

And then when they think it couldn't get any better, they uncover another layer that they hadn't planned or really considered in their initial plans.

While Will was always going to have sexual identity issues according to the Montauk bible, meaning that the writing process for him likely involved sitting down imagining scenarios that encapsulated this arc for Will from the beginning, they were simultaneously now finding very interesting aspects of Mike's character that made it hard not to at least consider the possiblity that Mike is not exactly straight.

Just think about it. The Byers and Wheelers are basically polar opposites on the spectrum of what a family looks like. While Will's discovery and acceptance of his queerness is interesting to explore because he comes from a low-income, single-mom household, all while having been bullied for years based on his perceived queerness, he also has a mother and brother constantly reinforcing that they will accept him no matter what. They've been sort of hitting us over the head with it for years, and so it wouldn't be very satisfying for his entire arc to merely lead up to something we've known all along. It's pretty much a given at this point.

On the other side of the spectrum, Mike comes from a more upper-middle class family at the end of a cul-de-sac, more aligned with what a nuclear family looks like. Mike's family is also presented as being more conservative, and while Karen does give that very queer-coded speech to Mike in s1 (I'm convinced they only wrote this after deciding to explore queer-coding more heavily with Mike), it also comes with comments from Ted and even still Karen that hint that they are probably not as open-minded and accepting as Will's family is to him. Which means Mike's arc would be a lot more about acceptance around him from his loved ones who we have been led to believe might not be as accepting of his queerness in contrast to Will.

And so as they're putting this story together, and they're being presented with something very interesting. Two similar experiences that play out in different ways because of the characters circumstances.

Will goes missing, and his twin sister with a buzzcut pops up and has the ability to help them find Will.

This leads to several moments where El is being compared to as not only a boy, but Will as well.

Now suddenly, their initial plans to have Mike's arc be about having a girl be interested in him and to hopefully have his first kiss and feel like less of a loser, starts to look a lot like what the experience a queer kid in his position might encounter growing up in the environment that he did.

And if you don't want to take my word for it, just hear the Duffer's themselves hinting at what they initially planned for Mike and the fact that it changed.

The changes don't stop there.

Believe it or not, 'It was a seven', did not exist in the initial pitch. When the boys went outside bickering over Nancy, they leave right after that.

Another thing that changed from the first script, was Scott Clarke's introduction:

And so you might be thinking, who cares? What does that have to do with anything?

Well, it's interesting because the line we end up with on the show is arguably one of the most on the nose Twelvegate proofs to date. Mind you, this is from the first episode:

Why chuck the original version, which was arguably more interesting and fascinating in terms of it hinting at the mysteriousness surrounding this story, only to replace it with him listing off tips about their upcoming test?

Well, I think it's the irony of it all. Here Mr. Clarke is practically telling us where to look to figure stuff out for ourselves what is going on, with all the kids filing out and ignoring him...

I relate to Scott a litttle too much in this shot here, any time I try to drop Willel evidence.

And the changes go on, as they obviously would.

Things like Terry Ives not even being El's mom, but actually a man who more so aligns with the characterization of Murray.

And one very interesting one I almost overlooked was in Hopper's introduction, where instead of a kids drawing done by who we assume to be Sarah, we actually see a picture on the wall of him and his wife and daughter... Interesting that they decided to switch it something that is a lot less definitive in presenting what Hopper's past looked like...

If you've made it this far, congratulations.

If you still think I'm out of my mind, just remember that El was going to have a brother in the original script, but they scrapped the scene and gave a near identical one to introduce her connection to Will instead 😘

#byler #stranger things #willel twins #twelvegate #montauk #as you can see #i am out of my mind #and i'm okay with that #i've spent the last couple months trying to make a video going over all the willel twin evidence #and i can't decide if it's even possible to do without going over an hour #like there is just so much shit that fits too perfectly into this family being ripped apart by mind control and time shenanigans #i hope to have it done soon #trying to make it less than 20 minutes #but it's probably going to end up being closer to an hour #especially with this stuff from the montauk pitch being added to the mix now #anyways #willel and byler are the curtain behind the curtain #if you are open to one of them #you are bound to stumble across the other #and they don't want that to happen #stay tuned for the inevitable twin imagery to continue in s5 related to willel leading up to the big reveal #bc it's arguably the most consistent thing about this damn show #and tbh this all just makes the queer-coding for mike in s1 a lot more concrete to me #them exploring will's queerness through his dad's expectations for him to do more 'manly' things like play baseball #and jonathan saying he shouldn't like things just bc people telll him he's supposed to #how they connect that narratively with the boys being at a baseball field when mike's being pressured about his supposed feelings for el #with the bullies showing up and literally being homophobic seconds later #the fact that jennifer hayes did in fact exist in the original pilot and was the girl mike had a crush on #only for them to scrap that and just make it about her having a crush on will...#never once introducing this idea of mike liking her...

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