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veliseraptor · 1 year

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Please tell me all the reasons xxc and nmj wouldn't get along, I'd love to hear that as a rant

I kept meaning to get back to this one and then forgetting and then going "oh I should answer that" and then going "but I don't want to be too bitchy" and then - and anyway that's why this took me like two months to answer.

basing this more on novel canon than cql, because that's where I tend to see the comparison being made more often, I think because they're more directly in contact in one specific scene.

so I think why people say this is basically because they see nie mingjue's "xue yang must be punished/killed" and xiao xingchen's "xue yang must be punished/killed" and also look at nie mingjue's relationship to jin guangyao and xiao xingchen's relationship to xue yang and go "oh so they're morally aligned and are parallel to each other :)" and that's just! not true!

for one thing, and I think this is something that gets lost a lot - xiao xingchen does not live within the hierarchy and structure of cultivation society at large, and is in fact not a huge fan of it. he and song lan are actively trying to do their own thing! that is part of xiao xingchen's problem specifically - he walks into great sect politics with the expectation of justice and runs headlong into, well, politics. and a big part of that is that he doesn't have a whole lot of respect for power if he sees that power as unjust or acting badly: despite pressure from the Jin, "neither coaxing nor coercion had budged Xiao Xingchen."

I think then people look at nie mingjue's showing up and arguing for the same and take those two things as equivalent, but they really aren't, because while nie mingjue is younger than jin guangshan and therefore owes him respect in that sense, he is also a sect leader and approaching from a far more equal position, which is why he can get away with actively threatening violence in a way that xiao xingchen...couldn't. nie mingjue has power, even if it ends up not working for him; xiao xingchen doesn't.

furthermore, I think another important distinction between the two of them is around the question of violence. specifically in the scene around xue yang's initial trial (ish), the distinction between xiao xingchen's bringing xue yang back to jinlintai to ask for him to be punished (by the sect whose responsibility he is), versus nie mingjue's attempt at direct personal execution, including an attack on jin guangyao when he doesn't get his way. again, some of this is likely based on power dynamics (nie mingjue, again, is closer to equal status and therefore has more allowance to step into jin guangshan's affairs), but I think some of it is a difference in approach, too, and inclination. I think it's also notable that (at least in translation) xiao xingchen doesn't specifically say that xue yang should die ("severely punished" is the phrase), as opposed to nie mingjue going for outright beheading.

so I think presenting them as similar/aligned in this scene, basically, is overselling it.

it's not that I think they would hate each other, or anything. I just don't think they'd be friends, or particularly see each other as allies. xiao xingchen occupies a space outside of the social order; nie mingjue, I would argue, is deeply wedded to the social order as it stands. xiao xingchen has a loose sense of the importance of traditional hierarchies of power; nie mingjue is very much embedded in those hierarchies of power and believes in upholding them.

furthermore, looking at the nie mingjue/jin guangyao dynamic versus the xiao xingchen/xue yang dynamic, I think the idea that they're narrative parallels really falls apart. nie mingjue is jin guangyao's superior officer and continues to perceive himself as an authority over jin guangyao; it is his job to correct his behavior and discipline him as he sees fit. xue yang is a criminal that xiao xingchen apprehends, and xue yang turns around and takes revenge on him for interfering. the latter are much closer to equals, at least in the way they perceive each other, and xue yang's revenge on xiao xingchen is considerably less motivated by self-preservation.

they're just not similar except in terms of very specifically both having the opinion "xue yang must be punished" and being willing to push against jin guangshan to do something about it, which isn't a lot to build on for a relationship of any kind, and I have a hard time seeing them vibe personalitywise.

boy this got long. you did ask for a rant though so I guess you got one? climbing down off my soapbox now and going back to my yi city cave where I belong.

#conversating #oddeyesight #sacrificing tags for the sake of not wanting to argue about it #alas.#should i tag stuff like this 'nie mingjue negative' maybe #i don't think i'm being unfair though #i don't think this counts as meta #i guess i'll tag this as #lise's aggressively bitchy opinions about irrelevant and unimportant matters #more mdzs than cql but for organization #the sad queer cultivators show #maybe i'll come back and tag it later

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wenningfanclub · 10 months

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“Wei Wuxian was thrown out of the cultivation world for not carrying a sword!! Because he’s a servant and as soon as he wasn’t useful he was cut off!!”

Okay but like... was he, though? Because as far as I remember, Wei Wuxian chooses to leave the Jiang clan when he decides to rescue the Wen remnants. Is it an unfair choice? Absolutely. But it’s one he makes on his own terms, and it’s not really related to his not carrying a sword.

Wei Wuxian faces pushback for not carrying his sword from pretty much everyone, but aside from the occasional “someone should do something about it” from the larger community nothing ever really comes of it. He’s still first disciple of the Jiang, and the most Jiang Cheng ever does is give him a hard time for not carrying his sword and for fucking off to go drink on the clock. And given that he has no context for why Wei Wuxian is doing either (because Wei Wuxian refuses to tell him) it’s pretty fair, actually. If anything, Jiang Cheng is almost unreasonably flexible about it: Wei Wuxian isn’t pulling his weight when Jiang Cheng really, really needs to him to be and not explaining why and it’s still not a deal breaker, even when he’s unreliable and out of control and fucking up diplomatic efforts at the cultivation conference. As far as I can tell, Wei Wuxian’s position as first disciple is never seriously jeopardized until he the moment he leaves the Jiang, and even then he has to be the one to pull the plug, not Jiang Cheng.

So like... he wasn’t kicked out of the cultivation world for not carrying a sword because it wasn’t about that. He just faces a ton of pushback, which is shitty and unfair given that he’s Going Through It at the time but again, no one knows about that because he’s actively lying about it.

And like, I do get the class-based analysis that some people have made that Nie Huaisang is able to get away with not carrying a sword with less pushback. Wei Wuxian has a job and Nie Huaisang... also has a job as sect heir but it’s a harder one to get fired from, PLUS he’s spent a lot of time and effort worming out of carrying it to the point that the pushback against it is pretty mild. Whereas with Wei Wuxian, people react differently is because it’s yeah, his job to carry his sword, but more importantly it’s both sudden and wildly out of character for him to stop carrying Suibian. Up until losing his core, he was one of (if not THE) best swordsman of his peers and his sword was part of him and his identity as a cultivator, so for everyone who knows him there’s considerable reason to be alarmed--in no small part because they correctly recognize that something must be Very Wrong with him. Which is where Lan Wangji is coming from, and he’s right.

But also, and I can’t stress this enough, Nie Huaisang also gets more of a pass because he isn’t holding a live bomb and refusing to let go. Because it’s not just the sword that’s the issue, it’s the fact that Wei Wuxian has the tiger tally and is unwilling to let it be destroyed by the clans. Not carrying a sword is a sign that he’s abandoned righteous cultivation and adopted demonic cultivation--and given the both recent and historic track record of demonic cultivators going apeshit, it’s not a totally unreasonable thing for people to be anxious about. This is a society still reeling from a war that started when powerful, talented people started flaunting convention and straying from the path, so while I’m not justifying anyone’s paranoia, the overall concern about whether or not no longer carrying a sword is a sign that Wei Wuxian is the next Wen Ruohan isn’t baseless.

So while there’s absolutely more to be said for class-based analysis of how people treat him, I honestly can’t agree with people who are hung up on the idea that Wei Wuxian was unfairly punished for not carrying a sword. Because he really wasn’t punished for it at all, and also I don’t think that the people who were upset or alarmed that he stopped carrying Suibian were that unreasonable.

#mdzs #cql #the untamed #wei wuxian #meta #this is in response to a post I saw making the rounds with the wwx girlies that I didn't bother replying to #about how it's so unfair that people freak out about him not carrying his sword but when nhs does it it's all good #and I do get where that's coming from but y'all #the sword is barely the issue #not to mention the fact that again #nothing really happens about it like people are shitty and there are conversations about needing to bring him back in line but that's it #could something have happened eventually if he didn't leave with the wens? maybe #but then again jc is pretty unwilling to actually do anything about it other than give him a hard time #so I don't know if it would've #and even if it DID the sword thing wouldn't be the cause #maybe the embodiment of it but not the cause

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nixster627 · 3 months

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Nie Huaisang: Some of the things you say are so out of pocket.

Wei Wuxian: What do you mean?

Wei Wuxian: Doesn't everyone have the experience of having to fend against dogs for food in their childhood.

Nie Huaisang: See that's what I mean. No one else experienced that.

Wei Wuxian: That can't be true. There's no way I'm special.

#mdzs #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #the untamed #mo dao zu shi #cql #mxtx #incorrect quotes #incorrect mdzs #incorrect cql #wei wuxian #nie huaisang #inspired by a conversation i had with my coworkers

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leatherbookmark · 4 months

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i'm kind of in love with 7s's description of qi deviation. symptoms include death. good to know

#shrimp thoughts #possessed by the vision of cql!jgy approaching nmj's bloodstained corpse carefully like 'hm... it's possible he had qi deviation'#i'm also in love with page 167 containing 'lark around/about' THREE TIMES. once lark around in narration and the next two are #in the lan brothers' conversation. also lxc says 'they may not only know how to joke and lark about' babe WHAT does it MEAN #compare his earlier 'this may not be a bad idea' why does he talk like that... and then 'were you not amenable to the offer of his company?#and 'i only agreed because you looked like you might want [wwx] to come with us' which makes it sound like lxc had to rephrase #his words because lwj did not understand them the first time... aaaah i forgot how bad this edition is #liveshrimping

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lanjiangs · 2 years

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Had an idea after reading @cerusee's post on ways wwx could find out about jiang cheng’s sacrifice, specifically their first idea about lwj and jc being trapped in a cursed cave that plays out emotionally charged memories!

Jin Ling conspires to bring his uncles together and get them to actually talk to each other - things do not go to plan.

For one, Wei Wuxian brings Lan Wangji along with him, which means he has even less reason to go near Jiang Cheng, and Jiang Cheng is going to spend the whole time glaring at Lan Wangji and not looking at Wei Wuxian!

And secondly, they get themselves separated halfway through a cave, with Jin Ling and Wei Wuxian on one side of a very solid looking wall, and Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji on the other. Which means that even if JC and WWX were starting to look slightly less tense around each other, it doesn’t matter now because if Jiang Cheng doesn’t murder Wei Wuxian’s beloved husband, Wei Wuxian’s beloved husband is going to murder him!

Whilst Jin Ling and Wei Wuxian are desperately scrambling to come up with a way through this magically appearing wall, Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji are standing on the opposite side taking very deep breaths and exploring their options with as few words as possible.

It turns out the cave is enchanted and feeds off strong emotions, in order to reap the most distress it can, it taps into its victims brains and plays out some of their most emotional memories.

For Lan Wangji, it plays out his memory of fighting off his own clan members in order to save A-Yuan, followed by his brutal punishment.

Jiang Cheng has several emotions about seeing this, most of them different flavors of self hatred - the great Hanguang Jun proving yet again how worthy he is of Wei Wuxian’s love, how he knew all along that he was worth protecting.

Shortly after that, it is Jiang Cheng’s turn, and he and Lan Wangji find themselves standing in a rainy market in Yilling, watching a much younger Jiang Cheng give himself up to the Wen in order to save an oblivious Wei Wuxian, to where he is dragged off by them to be tortured and have his core ripped out.

As soon as it’s over Jiang Cheng is up in Lan Wangji’s face telling him in no uncertain terms that he will kill him if he ever breathes a word of it to Wei Wuxian. Lan Wangji shoves him off and after a long while, Jiang Cheng pulls himself together and they go back to figuring out how to get out.

Lan Wangji would think nothing of what he had seen, except a sadness at how pale and drawn Wei Ying had looked in the vision, but for the fact that he knew it would make a huge difference for Wei Ying.

In the midst of this, Lan Wangji says “Wei Ying would want to know”. Jiang Cheng stops what he’s doing but does not turn around “What do you care?”

“About you, I do not. But Wei Ying…”

“You heard him yourself, he said to leave it in the past. He- I don’t owe him anything anymore. Let him believe what he’s always believed”

After that they work in silence, eventually working their way to freedom, and back to Jin Ling and Wei Wuxian.

After sealing up the cave to prevent anyone else falling into it’s trap, the two pairs go their separate ways with very short, tense goodbyes.

Lan Wangji does not mention what he saw for a long time, but he thinks about it often. It is not until one night, when Wei Wuxian, a little drunk (but safe and warm in their home), mentions his once-brother running back to Lotus Pier to retrieve his parents bodies, that Lan Wangji feels guilty enough that he nudges Wei Ying to sit up from where he’s sprawled over his lap.

“ Wei Ying..”

“Huh, Lan Zhan I was comf- what’s wrong?”

“Jiang Wanyin did not.”

“Didn’t what? What’s with that face, Lan Zhan, you’re making me nervous, ha.”

Lan Wangji takes a deep breath and takes Wei Ying’s hand to give himself a moment to think through his words, before looking back into his wide, worried eyes, “In the cave, it showed us his memories. Jiang Wanyin did not go back for his parents.”

He takes a moment to swallow down his anger towards the man in question, “He got captured to distract them from you.”

Wei Ying stares at him for a moment before smiling sadly and shaking his head.

Lan Wangji interrupts him as he opens his mouth to speak, “He did it deliberately, Wei Ying. I saw it.”

It takes some time for it to sink in, and when it does Wei Ying is so distressed that Lan Wangji almost regrets telling him. But after some time of Lan Wangji holding him and reminding him that Wei Ying does not owe Jiang Wanyin anything, that he did not even want him to know, and a few aborted attempts to leave and sprint his way to Yunmeng, he calms down enough for Lan Wangji to get him into bed, with the plan to leave for Yunmeng in the morning.

Lan Wangji says goodbye to Wei Ying in a town on the outskirts of Yunmeng, after flying him there, recognising that he needs to see his brother alone, but wanting to be close enough for his own peace of mind.

Wei Wuxian walks up to the gates of Lotus Pier with no plan and an emotional mixture of anger, sadness, regret and love fuelling his steps.

(Jin Ling’s plan did work…eventually!)

#alternative is where the cave also saps their spiritual power and the conversation is much less friendly #lwj and jc end up in a fist fight and its very fraught and a little sexy and they're big mad about it #doesnt change the ending tho #i have no idea how the converdation between jc and wwx will go but it brings them closer to reconcilliation!!!#yunmeng brothers #yunmeng brothers reconciliation #jiang cheng #jiang wanyin #wei wuxian #if i as jiang cheng has wei ying tenderly wipe a tear away i would DIE on the spot it is so sweet #lan wangji #lan zhan #jin ling #breifly #mzdz #the untamed #cql #mine #post-canon

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thatswhatsushesaid · 1 year

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shitpost dispatches from jinlintai - incorrect but plausibly canon quotes edition

#literally what is not physically painful about this entire sequence of events #not one single second that's what #mdzs #mdzs shitposting #cql #the untamed #jin guangyao #wei wuxian #two little guys who should have gone through life just being some guy to each other #(and potentially qualsi in-laws care of their respective lans)#yet tragically were forced to be adversaries because of Story #think of all the awkward but ultimately harmless dinner conversations they were both denied #all the tension headaches jgy never got to experience while preparing for typhoon wei wuxian #to descend upon his quiet evening with er-ge #god part of me does desperately wish that they could have been friends #but most of me knows that these two would never ever ever have been friends because they would grind each other's gears way too much #but wouldn't that have been interesting :c wouldn't that have also been nice

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gravitywonagain · 2 years

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Can't Cheat Death While You're Digging Your Own Grave; Part 2

[Part 1] I didn't abandon it, look! Now with [Part 3]

What if Nie Huaisang and Wei Wuxian were closer? Sworn brothers, even? What if NHS visited WWX in Yiling?

Prompt from the wonderful @shiranai-atsune

[T (for now?), implied Wangxian, 3.5k, 2/?]

Nie Huaisang:

The solution was obvious. So obvious that Nie Huaisang was a little annoyed that he seemed to be the only one who saw it.

In fairness to everybody else, there was a lot going on and not everybody even knew there was a problem that required a solution. But Nie Huaisang didn’t feel like being fair to anyone when his brother was dying. And not only was he dying, but he wouldn’t admit he was dying. He wouldn’t change a single thing even though they both knew that his saber was slowly killing him.

To make matters worse, the entire cultivation world had somehow conspired against the only hope for his survival and stranded the two of them on a mountain of corpses in the middle of fucking nowhere. Okay, technically it was in the outskirts of Yunmeng, but the point remained.

Nie Huaisang, however, was nothing if not proactive. Don’t ask anyone to corroborate that, but he was. Da-ge knew of his competence, and that was what mattered.

There were, after all, multiple reasons he was left in charge of the Unclean Realm’s resources during the Sunshot Campaign. Reasons that had little to do with his refusal to pick up his saber. Reasons that resulted in a very effective hospital, if he did say so himself.

His brother was very aware of his covert brand of brilliance. Which was good. Because he really needed his brother to hear him out. And he would definitely not want to hear him out about this.

Da-ge was sweaty and smiling when Nie Huaisang found him, Baxia laid gently across his lap as he tended to her edge with all of his attention. He was relaxed in the way he only was after losing all his breath and working himself into near exhaustion. Training always made Da-ge feel powerful and centered. It was the cleanest exercise he got -- at least outside of visits from Er-ge and San-ge.

Which was why Nie Huaisang waited to search him out until the early afternoon. He wanted Da-ge to be calm and happily exerted, which could be a detriment to one of Nie Huaisang’s arguments, but would leave him in the best state of mind to hear out Nie Huaisang’s plan.

“Da-ge!”

“Sang’er.”

There’s a warmth to Da-ge’s voice when he’s happy. It’s a good sound. A sound like fresh soil for planting flowers.

Nie Huaisang skipped his way over to his brother and sat himself down on the stone stair next to him.

He smiled and said, “You look relaxed.”

Da-ge raised an eyebrow and replied, “You look calculating.”

Nie Huaisang huffed at that. This was the danger of being known, of course. This is the reason Nie Huaisang pretends to be an idiot in front of other people. When people don’t know that you’re clever enough to be calculating, they never accuse you of it!

He pouted at Da-ge, but it was no use.

Hands still moving in long, confident strokes, Da-ge looked up and dismissed the rest of the disciples in the training yard.

The disciples moved at once, not wanting to get involved in an argument between the brothers. Nie Zonghui set a hand on Nie Huaisang’s shoulder as he passed by, leaving swiftly after a comforting squeeze.

“What do you want, Sang’er?”

Da-ge’s eyes returned to Baxia, but Nie Huaisang had no doubt he had his brother’s attention.

“I have a solution to our problems,” he said, a simple kind of delight affecting his tone.

“What problems?”

“See,” Nie Huaisang flapped his fan lightly, “I knew you would say that, because you always say that whenever I try to bring this up.”

“Huaisang.” It was almost a groan. Nie Huaisang hated when his name was a groan.

He deflected, “But your cultivation is only one of the problems I’m about to solve for us.”

“And the other?”

He couldn’t help himself, quirking his head to the side like a magpie, “So you admit it’s a problem?”

“Sang’er.” Another groan. This time edged with chastisement, which was even worse.

Nie Huaisang rolled his eyes, but pressed on. “The other is Wei Wuxian.”

At this, Da-ge froze. His hands stilled, whetstone hovering a paper’s width over Baxia’s blade. Then, slow as a mountain, Da-ge turned to face Nie Huaisang with narrowed eyes and furrowed brow.

“You have a way to kill him?” he asked.

“Da-ge! No!” Honestly, Nie Huaisang shouldn’t have been surprised. And he wasn’t, not really. But he had forgotten -- briefly -- in all of his scheming that Wei Wuxian was on that stupid mountain of corpses because people wanted to kill him. Apparently those people included Da-ge, which was something Nie Huaisang, again, knew, but had, momentarily, forgotten.

He brightened his smile and said, “I have a way to save him.”

Confusion spilled over Da-ge’s features. “Save him?” he asked. “From what?”

Nie Huaisang sighed, “Himself, mostly,” and got a chuckle out of Da-ge.

“You’re a bit late for that.”

“Maybe, but maybe not,” he shrugged. “I want to bring him here.”

Anger came next. This Nie Huaisang was expecting. This he was quite prepared for. So when Da-ge began to shout, “You want to--” Nie Huaisang was quick to cut him off before he could work himself into a frenzy.

“Him and the refugees he’s protecting,” he said, channeling as much certainty into the words as he could and backing them with his own brand of Nie stubbornness.

“The Wens he’s protecting,” Da-ge shot back.

But Nie Huaisang didn’t budge. “Yes.”

“Why?”

Good. Good; leave it to his brother to know that there was a reason. That this wasn’t just some frivolous idea. This, Nie Huaisang would acknowledge, is why you do show some people how clever and capable you are.

“Wei Wuxian,” he starts, leaving behind all pretense of flightiness in his voice and in his body language, “is the world’s foremost expert on resentful energy and Wen Qing is a medical genius who treated Wen Ruohan for years.” He did not stop as his brother’s eyes narrowed further at the mention of Wen Qing and her uncle. He continued, “They are wasted living in the Burial Mounds, farming radishes in soil fertilized by human corpses.”

“Wasted?” Da-ge’s voice quivered with suppressed rage. “They should both be dead!” Barely suppressed.

“He’s the hero of the Sunshot Campaign!” Nie Huaisang really didn’t understand why people kept forgetting that.

Sure, he knew that some forgot it conveniently as they used his friend’s villainization toward their own grasps for power, but Da-ge was there. Da-ge saw Wei Wuxian in the aftermath of that final battle, drained and pale after having wrested control of Wen Ruohan’s puppets and turned them against their former master.

“Meng Yao--”

“Do you really want to bring up San-ge right now, Da-ge?”

Da-ge flinched and deflated a little. Paused, looking down at the massive saber in his hands. “No,” he said after a moment. “But that doesn’t explain why you want to bring an army of demonic cultivators--”

“They’re not an army,” Nie Huaisang said, waving his fan as if he could dismiss the thought from the collective consciousness like fanning smoke from the air. “They’re too old and weak. Common people caught in the conflict.”

To his credit, Da-ge doesn’t ask how Nie Huaisang knows that. He says instead, “They are Wens.”

“They are villagers. Not even in the tenth degree of kinship to Wen Ruohan.”

“The doctor and her brother are his cousins.”

“They did not take part--”

“And you think that absolves them?” Da-ge stands, Baxia in his grip but flung out wide as he spreads his arms with frustration. “Did you not just say she treated our father’s murderer for years? Why does she deserve our protection?”

“She helped the Jiang siblings--”

Anger begins building up in Da-ge’s body. Nie Huaisang can see it like a physical thing.

“Then let Yunmeng Jiang take her in!” Baxia flares red. “Let them deal with their supposed saviors and their heretic defector!” He swings her back and forth in a small arc as she splutters with their combined power.

Nie Huaisang needs to calm him down. He needs to separate him from Baxia, but first, he needs to bring his brother back.

He leans back on one hand, fan fluttering gracefully. He keeps his own voice light, perfectly non-combative, and says, “Jiang Cheng doesn’t have the resources.” Flippant, “Or the balls.”

The joke lands. Da-ge doesn’t laugh or even smile, but his shoulders relax. He loosens his hold on Baxia’s hilt. Seems to notice her in his hand for the first time. Before there might have been something like worry in his eyes as he looks at her, or an apology on his lips as he looks back to Nie Huaisang. But they are past that now. It is not good, but it is known and they do not waste breath on performative promises that mean nothing.

Instead, Da-ge sets Baxia down gently and steps away from her; sits on the other side of Nie Huaisang, resting his elbows on his knees.

“And his lack of balls is my problem somehow?”

Nie Huaisang snaps his fan closed, the closest thing to an acknowledgement either of them will make.

“Not your problem, no, but it could be our gain.”

His pulse settles out and slips back down into his chest from where he’d felt it lodged in his throat.

“Gain?” Da-ge asks, incredulous. “What do we stand to gain?”

Nie Huaisang simply nods, “Wei Wuxian.”

“The demonic cultivator.”

Now he wants to groan. Is that all his friend is to anyone anymore? “The former first disciple of Yunmeng Jiang,” he says, insistent. “The champion archer. The talismanic genius. Remember all his potential? He was the fourth ranked young master of my generation.”

“I’d wager that ranking has changed. And it’s not like we can put him back on the Sword Path, Sang’er.”

“He can’t return to the Sword Path, anyway.” The words leave his mouth almost flippantly and it’s less than a second before he notices but the regret is instantaneous.

Of course, Da-ge picks up on it immediately. “What do you mean ‘he can’t?’”

The thing is, he’s not actually sure of this bit. It’s just-- Well, he notices things. But because this isn’t a fact that he knows, it wasn’t one he was going to bring up in this conversation.

He likes to have confidence in the things he tells Da-ge. It helps maintain his credibility, or whatever. And also doesn’t give Da-ge false information that may put him in a sticky situation if he bases a decision off of it.

Because of that, he also knows that if he were to tell his brother to let it go, that the information is not reliable yet, that Da-ge would. He would leave it. He would wait.

But, the other thing is, Nie Huaisang is almost sure of this bit. He would give it ninety percent odds of being true. Higher if his source in Yunmeng isn’t blowing smoke; which she never has yet.

It’s enough, he decides.

“Da-ge, he doesn’t have a core.”

“He-- what?!” Da-ge’s eyes go wide as archery targets. His full body turns to face Nie Huaisang, legs shifting, as he fixes Nie Huaisang with the narrowest of narrow-eyed stares he’s ever seen and asks, “How could you possibly know that?”

“I don’t!” Nie Huaisang says, and this time he means it, “I don’t. But the rumors during the war-- You remember, I told you. Rumors of Jiang Wanyin falling to Wen Zhuliu during the massacre of Lotus Pier. Rumors of Wen Chao dropping Wei Wuxian into the Burial Mounds. If Wen Qing, the accomplished doctor that she is, sheltered them…” he remembers the haunted look in his friend’s eyes after he returned, the way he flinched away from touch, the way he avoided Lan Wangji of all people. “The pieces fit and think about it, Da-ge. Why else would he give up his sword?”

Da-ge doesn’t look convinced, yet. His voice is calm as he says, “Men do all kinds of things for great power.”

Nie Huaisang can’t help himself; he shouts, “He had great power! You’ve seen him! He was Yunmeng Jiang’s head disciple. He went strike for strike with Wangji-xiong. He and Wangji-xiong, alone and injured, defeated the beast under Muxi Mountain!”

Da-ge only shakes his head, “All of that pales in comparison to what he did at Nightless City, Sang’er.”

“Which he did for us! And we all let him! We encouraged him. We used him!”

“You’re right.” Still so calm. He reaches out an places a hand on Nie Huaisang’s shoulder, just like he used to when they were young and one of Nie Huaisang’s birds had died. “We should never have allowed him to live,” his eyes are dissonantly kind, “but war is a desperate time.”

“And he’s desperate now!” Nie Huaisang feels strangely like the conversation is slipping from his grasp. It sits heavy and awkward in his chest, his emotion welling up and distracting him from the task at hand. So he calms it. He closes his eyes, forces it into a ball, and shoves it down, burning it off inside his golden core, or imagining that he does.

When he looks back into his brother’s eyes, he is steady. “He helped us then,” he says, voice strong and clear, “and we can help him now.”

Da-ge looks back, just as steady. “By bringing a demonic cultivator and a bunch of Wens onto our land, Sang’er? No. Absolutely not.”

“They’re farmers, Da-ge. Farmers.”

“Farmers and whatever Wen Qionglin is.”

That is so not the point! “Aiyo, Da-ge! He could save you!”

“Save me? Huaisang, I’m not dying.”

And back into the same old argument they go. Nie Huaisang is beyond tired of it. He refuses to allow his brother to lie to him about this any more. Every time the subject comes up, Nie Mingjue avoids or distracts or prevaricates. They’ve never talked about how Nie Huaisang figured it out; they’ve never talked about what is actually going on; and Nie Huaisang will not let pride or stubbornness kill his brother. Not when he’s finally figured out how to save him.

“Yes you are.” He allows no room in his words for uncertainty.

“I’m--”

“You’re going to qi deviate. Like your mother. Like Father.”

“Wen Ruohan--”

“Took a shortcut. We both know Father would have died soon enough anyway.”

Da-ge looks at him with his jaw set. He doesn’t deny it. He can’t deny it, not honestly, and Nie Huaisang will always know if he’s lying -- mostly because he’s exceedingly bad at it. But it’s not like he looks ready to give up, either.

“And what exactly do you think Wei Wuxian can do about it?” He asks it like a question, but it’s difficult to tell whether or not he actually cares to hear the answer.

Nie Huaisang gives him one anyway. “It’s inside him, Da-ge, like it’s inside you.”

“The Saber Path is not the Ghost Path, Sang’er.”

“Ghosts, beasts, what’s the difference?”

“Do I need to send you back to Lan Qiren a fourth time?”

He flaps his fan dismissively. “It’s resentment. It’s harmful. It’s not spiritual energy. It might as well be the same thing. And if he can contain it, if Wen Qing-daifu can help him, maybe they can help us.”

The clench of Da-ge’s jaw tightens. He huffs through his nose. “That’s a lot to risk on a maybe.”

“What risk?” Nie Huaisang asks honestly. “Your life, the lives of every Saber Path cultivator, could be saved!”

“By an unstable man with wicked cultivation?”

“He’s unstable because he’s desperate. They’re barely surviving on that mountain.” Nie Huaisang laughs, “He scraped together a cultivation method that defeated Wen Ruohan and ended the war with a few months and no golden core. Imagine what he could do if we gave him time. Shelter. A library. Food.”

“Sang’er--” Da-ge starts, but there’s a weakness in it. Not quite conciliatory, but close. Close enough to press.

“I will bring him here,” says Nie Huaisang, forcing all of his conviction into each syllable. “I’d marry him into the sect if he wasn’t so in love with Wangji-xiong.”

Da-ge sighs, “You don’t need to--”

“You’re right! Because there’s another option!”

Da-ge’s eyes widen as he realizes, “Huaisang, no.”

Nie Huaisang grins, “He just has to agree to it.”

“Huaisang.”

“It’ll be perfect!”

“Huaisang!”

Nie Huaisang stands tall, raising his fan high, and cries out, “We’ll bow before Heaven and Earth and the entire cultivation world as sworn brothers!”

Da-ge stands to match him, “You will not.”

He’s tall, so much taller than Nie Huaisang, so Nie Huaisang goes two steps up the stairs, saying, “We will. In Lanling. At his nephew’s Full Moon celebration.”

Da-ge doesn’t chase him. He looks up, now, to his younger brother. A mixture of defeat and something else -- maybe hope? -- in his steely, grey eyes.

“You think you can arrange that?” he asks, but it’s not a question. It’s a yielding. An acquiescence. Permission.

Nie Huaisang smiles down at his older brother and nods. “Jin Guangshan will be so pleased to have Wei-xiong close enough to touch.”

“Close enough to trap.”

“Yes, we’ll have to be careful.” He taps his folded fan against his chin, “But if Qinghe Nie offers him protection, I bet Wei-xiong will be willing to give up that stupid seal that has everyone frothing at the mouth like rabid dogs.”

Da-ge’s eyebrows climb his forehead. “He’d give up his power? Just like that?”

Nie Huaisang steps back down the stairs, putting him on equal footing with his brother, his sect leader, again. Now that he’s won, now that they’re talking strategy, he sits back down on the stone stairs, pleased when Da-ge does the same. He picks up the whetstone that Da-ge had discarded in his earlier rage and hands it to him.

“Wei-xiong doesn’t want power for power, Da-ge. He wants it for purpose. He needs it to keep people safe and if we take on that burden for him, he won’t need that power anymore.”

Da-ge hums and nods, turning the stone over in his hands, thumbs gliding over the smooth edges of it.

“If we take in a few dozen farmers --” he continues, but Da-ge cuts in.

“And the Wen siblings.”

“Yes,” Nie Huaisang rolls his eyes, “and the Wen siblings, who will be very grateful to not have to scrounge out a living on a mountain of death anymore,” he reminds his stubborn brother, “then Wei Wuxian will give up the Seal. He’ll come here. We will protect him and those he has claimed. And he will fix--” Da-ge cuts a glare at him from the side, and Nie Huaisang amends, “adjust our cultivation so that it stops killing our most powerful practitioners.”

“It is not bad to have a defined upper limit on power,” says the man who is always pushing up against that limit with his own two shoulders.

But Nie Huaisang doesn’t need to bring that up. “So you’ve said,” he nods. “It is also not bad for our sect leaders to have an expected lifespan longer than forty years.” Really, it doesn’t seem like he’s asking too much here.

Da-ge grins. “You just don’t want to be a sect leader.”

“This is true,” says Nie Huaisang, because it very much is. “And you will need all the time I can give you to find a wife who can stand you--” he dodges Da-ge’s hand as it flashes out to catch his arm, giggling when the fingertips connect with his sleeve anyway “--long enough to make you a tiny little heir!” Da-ge lunges again.

For a moment, they’re just brothers again. Before titles and wars and death molded them into what they are now, they were just two brothers. Two brothers who loved each other and who protected each other.

Nie Huaisang supposes they haven’t changed too much, in the grand scheme of things. They love each other. And they will protect each other.

“This will work?” Da-ge asks, and Nie Huaisang swallows past the fear in his throat.

“Da-ge, it is the only chance we have.”

Da-ge hums again, passing the whetstone from hand to hand until handing it to Nie Huaisang. “You will pick up a saber?”

Nie Huaisang hesitates, fingers barely grazing the now-warm stone. “That was not part of this deal.”

“What if it was?”

He can’t tell, he honestly can’t tell if Da-ge would back out over this or not. It’s an amazing bluff if it is one, but if it’s not -- Nie Huaisang can’t afford to give up now. Besides, he’s only ever had one truly major complaint against the Saber Path.

“If he fixes it-- Don’t give me that look. If he fixes it,” he takes a deep breath and accepts the whetstone from his brother, “I’ll pick up my saber.”

“Deal.” Da-ge stands, smiling, and Nie Huaisang just can’t help himself.

He snaps open his fan and says, “But I’ll put it back down as soon as I start sweating.”

“Sang’er!” Da-ge starts to stomp after him.

He runs. “It’s so gross, Da-ge!”

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