#definitely I don't think in this fandom

[svsss-fanon-exposed]

Exposing SVSSS Fanon: 25/∞

VIOLENCE AS COURTSHIP IS A PART OF DEMON CULTURE

Rating: CANON

A nearly universal trope, especially in Moshang fics, is the fact that courtship is performed through violence in demon culture, and that the misunderstandings between the pair are because of cultural differences. The fact that demons mistreat the targets of their affection is canon, however, it is important for fans to note that this sort of characterization and worldbuilding is rooted in racial and ethnic stereotypes.

This is one of the most-requested topics I've ever written on this blog, and I took a long time to think about how best to approach the subject in a way that both keeps to the intention of this blog (referencing canon & providing quotes) as well as raising awareness to the very real problematic aspects of what is a well-loved and often-used trope in fanon that I don't think most western fans are aware of.

First, the canon analysis:

“If you hold unique feelings for a certain person, how can you make them understand your intentions?” Luo Binghe asked. Obviously, no one dared to tear down Luo Binghe’s facade and expose him directly, but this question was really very…unsuited to the demonic approach. After a long moment, not a single person had answered. In fact, the answer was so simple that any normal human could have given it to you. If you liked someone, you should just tell them. Unfortunately, there was not a single “normal” person on the scene—and aside from Shang Qinghua, there also were no “humans” either. Mobei-Jun thought about it. With the paths his mind was given to take, there was no telling how he had interpreted “unique” feelings. “Beat them up three times a day?” (7 Seas, Ch. 26)

Most of the fandom remembers this passage, and some may think that this is where the interpretation of violence as courtship comes from-- however, that is not the case. This passage might actually not refer to courtship at all-- while that is one possible interpretation, Mobei-jun could also be interpreting "unique feelings" to mean something different than "romantic feelings," since Luo Binghe didn't specify romance directly.

The "violent demonic courtship" idea actually originates much earlier in the novel, just after the invasion of Qiong Ding Peak:

In truth, Shen Qingqiu didn’t intend to tease; he thought himself very straightforward. The one who’d tampered with Luo Binghe’s dream realm was Sha Hualing. Though she did have some harmful intentions, her underlying motive was obvious. Naturally, she was driven by a young girl’s secret yearning for love. Otherwise, she would have directed her aggressions toward others, not specifically Luo Binghe. Demons were compelled to viciously bully the person they liked. Only if the object of their affections failed to die would the demon accept them. If their target died, that meant they were useless and not worth nursing any lingering affections for. (7 Seas, Ch. 3)

This, in fact, has somewhat more serious connotations than the way I have often seen it interpreted in fanworks-- it is not merely beating up a potential partner, but pushing them to their limits, nearly driving them to death, and it is certainly implied that it is not uncommon for the object of a demon's affections to actually die.

Now that the canonical basis of the idea has been established, let us move on to the second, and arguably more important part of this post: the racism.

I would like to add a disclaimer here-- I am going to discuss this in hopes of raising more awareness in the fandom, but I am not North/West/Central Asian myself, so I will only mention things in brief and somewhat generally-- if anyone who belongs to the affected cultures would like to make corrections, or more detailed explanations, or any other additions to this post on this topic, I greatly welcome that, as I feel it is an important issue that should be addressed.

In Chinese fiction, particularly fantasy genres like xianxia/xuanhuan/xiuzhen, but also in historical and wuxia fiction, there is a pervasive, prevalent tendency for authors to use racial and ethnic stereotypes against Central, Northern, and Western Asian cultures such as Mongolian & Arab cultures in their worldbuilding regarding the North, while stereotypes against Southeast Asian cultures are used in worldbuilding regarding the South. These stereotypes are most typically applied to villains and villainous groups, and are so widespread as to be ubiquitous within the genre. MXTX has used these tropes before-- notably with the Banyue people in TGCF, with adaptations of both TGCF and MDZS including design stereotypes, such as CQL's portrayal of the Qinghe Nie (combining their tendency toward violence and 'unnatural' cultivation method, with design traits typically associated with Northern/Central Asian cultures).

It is worth noting, though, that most authors do not intentionally use these traits as racist stereotypes in their worldbuilding, especially when regarding a non-human species-- in the same way that western fantasy authors use goblin and orc characters and tropes without realizing or acknowledging their racist origins and connotiations, these stereotypes have simply become genre tropes without that direct connection to their origins. Nonetheless, it is still worth noting-- and worth trying not to fall into the trap of leaning into stereotypical traits in fanworks' character portrayals.

Stereotypes include but are not limited to barbaric and brutish cultural traits, association with animals/having animal features, dark or corrupt magical/spiritual practices, certain types of braided hairstyles & other fashion choices, and originating from the far north or south.

Some of the prejudice and stereotyping of Northern Asian cultures likely originates from the fact that in the past, China was invaded and subjugated by peoples from the north (under Mongolian rule during the Yuan dynasty, and under Manchurian rule during the Qing dynasty) as well as having many conflicts with these peoples throughout history. In fact, the Qing dynasty only ended in the early 1900s, so some of this oppression is still in recent memory-- nonetheless, people belonging to ethnic minorities in China are still affected by this negative stereotyping today, so regardless of the origin, racism is still racism and should be addressed, and China today is a majority Han Chinese nation-- even if Han Chinese are considered a minority and affected by systemic racism in other places in the world.

Additionally, many tropes specifically applied to the southern demons, but also used for demon culture as a whole, are tied to stereotypical portrayals of Southeast Asian culture, which is rooted in a long history of Imperial China's invasion and oppression.

All of those stereotypes listed above apply to SVSSS' demon culture. Even in Mobei-jun's name-- 漠北 meaning "northern desert," which is the real-world name for a region in the north of the Gobi desert in Mongolia.

Therefore, it is important to remember that though violence-as-courtship in demon culture is canonical within SVSSS' setting, it nonetheless originates from harmful racial and ethnic stereotypes. It would be a good idea for fans to keep this in mind when creating their fanworks, and to treat the topic with sensitivity-- but I will leave any direct suggestions on how to handle this to those who are actually part of the affected groups.

--

(thanks to @flidgetjerome for additional notes regarding SEAsian stereotyping and author intent!)

#svsss #fanon exposed #svsss demon culture #mobei jun #canon #I don't know if I did a good job addressing the sensitive topics here so please feel free to correct anything I got wrong #or if I've overstepped anywhere #i just want to use the platform i have to bring this to the western fandom's attention since i don't think it's widely known #i will very gladly reblog any additions from fans who wish to weigh in but definitely don't feel pressured to do so

[essektheylyss]

I know it's such a cliche at this point to the point of garnering eye rolls, but we really cannot lose sight of the fact that 2x97 is the Most Episode of All Time. You cannot ignore Essek in that episode, obviously, but honestly the fact that that happened only serves to highlight how buckwild everything else was. That was when Veth got her body back. That was when Caleb first directly set his sights on Ludinus. That was when Fjord tried to ask Jester on a date and instead ending up thirdwheeling Yasha and Beau, who WERE essentially on a date. That was when Jester locked Sharpe on the balcony. That was when Cad got Beau SO high and Fjord was forced to babysit. That was when Fjord and Yasha told Marius he had to kill someone to stay on the crew.

If any ONE of these things had happened on top of the Essek reveal, it would've been notable or memorable, but no, the BREADTH of unhinged happenings in that episode is actually stunning.

#critical role #mighty nein #genuinely just. INSANE episode #there is nothing not unhinged in that episode #weren't there also jokes about Marion thinking they were having an orgy. like i don't even remember. #I've definitely written this post before but I'll DO IT AGAIN #like it does sometimes feel like over time people gloss over the fact that this episode has SO much #cuz a lot of the fandom remembers it as the essek reveal episode #and that IS a major turn in the plot of the narrative but #it's really like. one of SO MANY THINGS #also honestly can we all just take a minute to rewatch that conversation with Ludinus at the party. #i feel like it would improve a lot of the c3 discourse.

[drieddpetals]

i don't think we talk about the van eck crest enough. i also don't think we talk about kaz stealing jan van eck's crest straight off his suit at that meeting thingy they had enough. i don't even know what we would discuss about it but i feel like we should. i don't know what potential the crest has but i feel like it's something. i just feel like it should be incorporated into fanfics more often idk

#i don't know what it has potential for but i feel like it's definitely something #also just like mercher crests in general?? #like i know it's something i just don't know what #trust i will be thinking about this #and about how it can be incorporated into a fic #six of crows #six of crows fandom

[hephaestuscrew]

"With a goddamn harpoon": The significance of Minkowski's weapon of choice within the narrative and characterisation of Wolf 359

TL;DR: Despite its initial comic role, the harpoon becomes a important symbol of Minkowski as a character; it is particularly associated with her desperate need for control, her desire to keep her crew safe, her stubborn determination, and her occasional unpredictability. These associations add to the narrative significance when Minkowski kills Cutter with the harpoon. 

[Tagging people who said they wanted to be tagged: @browncoatparadox @captain-lovelace @goblincaveofvibes ]

~~~

Ep21 Minkowski Commanding

First appearance 

We first encounter the harpoon in Minkowski Commanding, which is a significant episode for Minkowski's characterisation because it's the first big departure from Eiffel's point-of-view into Minkowski's. It's arguably the most Minkowski-centred episode in the whole show, so it stands out when we think about her as a character.

EIFFEL (over comm) Um, Minkowski? Why is the armory wide open, and also, apparently, robbed? Where's the tactical knives kit? MINKOWSKI Don't worry. I've got that. EIFFEL Oh. And the M4 carbine? The, like, really-dangerous-in-space, select-fire M4 carbine? MINKOWSKI Yeah, I've got that too. EIFFEL And this empty rack I'm looking at right now with a label that says "harpoon" suggests that... MINKOWSKI Yes. I have it, Eiffel.

The harpoon is introduced as part of a list of over-the-top weapons that Minkowski takes on her plant-monster-hunting mission. It's initially just a funny moment to emphasise how seriously she's taking this mission. The weapons arguably increase in unlikeliness as Eiffel lists them, and it's a comic image to think of Eiffel deducing the situation from the empty rack labeled 'harpoon'. It could have been an entirely throw-away joke that was never brought up again. The M4 carbine never comes up again. The tactical knives kit is mentioned in Knock, Knock, but not in a plot-significant or symbolic way. 

'Goddamn harpoon' speech

So why does the harpoon become such an iconic part of Minkowski's brand (and I'm pretty certain it was seen as significant by fans long before the finale)? It's got to be because of the next time it's mentioned, when Minkowski talks to the plant monster in the same episode:

MINKOWSKI (getting psyched up) You wanna play with me, huh? You wanna run rings around me? The joyless, boring, predictable old Minkowski? She can't stop you, right? Not someone as smart and powerful as you. You've got her pegged. Good. Get complacent. Get smug. That's right when you'll find me waiting for you. With a goddamn harpoon.

There's so much to say about this speech and what it reveals her character. For one thing, it's all projection - we have no real indication of what (if anything) the plant monster thinks of Minkowski. We don't even really know how much understanding it has when listening to her talk. She imagines that this silent adversary would call her "joyless, boring, predictable". I suspect that these are all things that she's been called a fair bit in the past. (To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they are all things that Eiffel called her at one point.)

But the harpoon is proof against - if not the accusation of joylessness - the idea that Minkowski is boring and predictable. Boring and predictable people don't opt for a harpoon for fighting on a spaceship when plenty of more conventional weapons available. A harpoon is unexpected, and there's a kind of power in that.

Another interesting thing about that speech is that the whole thing would make at least as much sense - if not more - if it was directed at Cutter. In Sarah Shachat's episode commentary on Minkowski Commanding (part of the bonus material available to buy here), she says that Minkowski "is really speaking to Cutter in this moment". It's made clear that Minkowski's behaviour in Minkowski Commanding is not just about the plant monster itself. She tells Eiffel, "I have to take it seriously! If I can eliminate one threat, just one, then we are that much closer to going home!" 

The specifics of the plant monster's location, abilities, and origin are mysterious, but - unlike many of the other forces threatening the safety of Minkowski's crew - it is at least tangible and harpoon-able and not light years away. Hunting the plant monster is a way for Minkowski to assert control when so much is outside of her control. It's an attempt to demonstrate that she is - as she puts it - "in charge of this disaster". Minkowski treats the plant monster as a physical symbol of all the threats her crew are facing, and so the harpoon becomes a physical symbol of her fierce (if sometimes misguided) determination to take control of the situation and fight back against those threats to protect her crew.

The line "you'll find me waiting for you. With a goddamn harpoon" is one that sticks in the mind, especially since - with one notable exception - 'goddamn' is about as potent as swearwords get on this show. And it's the harpoon that she uses to give specificity to the threat. 

Absurdity

A harpoon is powerful and threatening, which is exactly what Minkowski is trying to convey to the plant monster, but in this context - not only on dry land but on a spaceship - it's also kind of absurd. From the way we hear it fire in the finale, we can tell that it's more like a speargun than a hand-thrown harpoon spear, but it's still an out-of-place weapon for space-based combat. Minkowski's already been shown to have a penchant for archaic weaponry, after her drunken enthusiasm over the cannon during the talent show incident, which is largely played for laughs. Similarly, in the episode commentary for Minkowski Commanding, Sarah Shachat says that the harpoon was introduced mostly just because it was funny; "[including a harpoon] was me sort of embracing the Moby Dick of it all. And I had no idea at the time how much importance that silly harpoon would take on." 

Eiffel makes a Moby Dick reference himself ("10 days of Captain Ahab's Space Walkabout"). I haven't read Moby Dick so I can't properly analyse the significance of this reference, but the initial prominence of the harpoon (traditionally a whaling tool) enables that connection. It feels like a good example of the classic Wolf 359 thing where something comedic has the potential to take on a deeper significance. It conjures an image of Minkowski as a Captain with the potential to be consumed by a single-minded mission to destroy... A potential that she resists in the conclusion to Minkowski Commanding when she chooses to leave the plant monster alone. The harpoon also fits with the sprinkling of nautical imagery and language in Wolf 359 (e.g. the repeated use of the word 'boat'), as well as the retro-futuristic feel of the Hephaestus.

We never learn why there's a harpoon on the Hephaestus. It seems like yet another of those bizarre unexplained quirks of the station, like the items in the storage room where Eiffel finds Box 953. Even when the weird mysterious features of the Hephaestus are depicted in a comedic way, these features are still a demonstration of the fact that the characters are in an environment that they don't understand and that their surroundings have been shaped according to the whims of Command.

I think we can assume none of the members of the Hephaestus crew brought a harpoon up with them. For whatever reason, someone at Goddard Futuristics must have decided to put a harpoon in that armory. Like most things in the crew's lives, the harpoon is owned by Goddard Futuristics. So the way Minkowski uses the harpoon could be seen as an instance of reclaiming something from Goddard and their control over her surroundings (in a similar way to how her crew are able to utilise the maze-like structure of the Hephaestus to their advantage when hiding first from the SI-5 and later from Cutter and the crew of the Sol).

Other mentions of the harpoon

The harpoon doesn't actually make another physical appearance until the finale, when it truly comes into its own. But there are a couple of little hints before then that it has become a part of Minkowski's brand amongst the other characters as well as to the listeners. These mentions remind the listener about the harpoon, so we don't forget about it before its big comeback in the finale.

Ep27 Knock, Knock

EIFFEL [to Minkowski] Like getting rid of all the weapons, for a start. We should gather up all the guns, the tactical knives, your harpoon. Put it all in the arms locker, seal that sucker up, and put the key in one of Hera's service canisters.

In this quote, Eiffel refers to it as "your harpoon" - the only weapon he ascribes ownership to here. He sees it as something she's laid claim to. He also thinks the harpoon is worth mentioning specifically, which suggests that he thinks that Minkowski would reach for it first if she was feeling particularly violent. This reinforces the idea that the harpoon has become a symbol of Minkowski's character. This connection is also strengthened by the fact that the harpoon is also never mentioned in relation to anyone other than Minkowski using it.

Ep45 Desperate Measures

LOVELACE [to Kepler] Yeah, right. Nobody knows this station like Alexander Hilbert. He knows every nook, cranny, hidden room - everything. And as back up he's got the only woman's who's ever turned outer space monster hunting into a recreational sport. You'll never see them coming... until all of a sudden there's a harpoon in your face, and you end up on the operating table of the finest medical sadist that Goddard Futuristics ever produced.

Lovelace mentions the harpoon and specifically refers to Minkowski's plant-hunting exploits, even though she didn't witness them. So we know that someone has told her that story. And what she's taken away from hearing the story is an emphasis on Minkowski's harpoon and an admiration for her determination. I don't think Minkowski was the one to tell Lovelace about her plant-monster-hunting mission, because I don't think she's necessarily proud of it. I suspect it was Eiffel who told her - he's the most natural storyteller of the group. In Mutually Assured Destruction, soon after meeting Lovelace for the first time, he says "Nobody's told you about the Plant Monster yet? So, funny story..." And I believe  Eiffel would have told the story of Minkowski's plant monster hunt in a way that conveyed both the ridiculousness of her behaviour but also a kind of awe at her boldness and persistence.

The tone of "all of a sudden there's a harpoon in your face" is pretty similar to "That's right when you'll find me waiting for you. With a goddamn harpoon". Once again, the harpoon is portrayed as something that the Hephaestus crew's adversary won't expect, something that will play a key role in that adversary's defeat. You might almost think something was being foreshadowed here…

Characterisation through Weaponry

When we think of the harpoon as a symbol of Minkowski as a character, it seems worth drawing a comparison with the only other Wolf 359 character who I think has a form of weaponry as a big part of their brand: Jacobi and his explosives. While a harpoon certainly has a lot of potential for violence (a potential which Minkowski utilises), it is targeted and intentional in a way that bombs don't tend to be. It's harder to have collateral damage with a harpoon, and I think that reflects a difference between Minkowski and Jacobi's approach to conflict.

A harpoon isn't really designed for combat - it's for hunting whales and other marine animals. It feels significant that Minkowski's key weapon of choice - the one she threatens the plant monster with and kills Cutter with - isn't the weapon of a soldier. She took an assault rifle with her to hunt the plant monster, but that wasn't the weapon she held onto. She's not a natural soldier, even if she'd sometimes like to think she is. 

Maxwell's Death

When Minkowski kills Maxwell, it's with a gun, not a harpoon. She's trying to be a soldier there. She's trying to do what she has to. I don't know much about how a harpoon is fired, but I've a feeling that there's less uncertainty about whether a harpoon was fired deliberately than a gun; the ambiguity around Minkowski's agency in Maxwell's death is a key part of the story that wouldn't work with a harpoon. But perhaps more importantly, I don't think there's meant to be a sense of victory or relief in Maxwell's death, unlike Cutter's. The harpoon - as a weapon that has become strongly identified with Minkowski as a character - is saved for moments when Minkowski is asserting her power in an active way that she isn't conflicted about. 

Ep61 Brave New World

About a third of the way into the finale, there's another indirect mention of the harpoon:

RACHEL Y-yes, sir… Umm, we also picked up some chatter on their weaponry supplies… Firearms, explosives, something about a harpoon…

This is a nice little reference which reminds the listener of the harpoon in anticipation of its big moment later on in this episode, while once again playing with its incongruity in a list of more typical combat weapons. Given that Minkowski and co. have guessed that they are being listened in on here, their choice to talk about the harpoon might be seen as their way of having a bit of fun, or it might be seen as their way to imply the same threat that Minkowski made to the plant monster. Cutter had warning, but he didn't heed it.

Which brings us, of course, to the harpoon's most significant moment:

Cutter frowns. Then he hears it: CLA-CLUNK! His eyes widen.  MINKOWSKI Let's see you catch this.  FWUUUMP! An ENORMOUS THING IS SHOT. A moment later, Cutter COLLIDES AGAINST THE WALL, IMPALED.  MR. CUTTER ... a... harpoon? That's not... how this is... supposed... to... He struggles for a few more moments...and then he stops.

This scene is a classic instance of Wolf 359 utilizing the audio medium to leave a significant element of the situation unknown to the listener until the right moment. We don't know that Minkowski is carrying the harpoon. We don't know that she's readying it as Lovelace talks. When we hear something fire, there's a moment where a listener might or might not have realised exactly what just fired. It's Cutter who delivers the glorious revelation. It gives the moment an additional burst of triumph that Cutter's final words are an expression of shock, not just that he has been defeated but at the weapon with which the killing blow was struck.

Human unpredictability 

It's not just that Minkowski kills Cutter with a harpoon; it's also that she wouldn't have been able to kill him without it. He can catch bullets after all, so Minkowski and Lovelace's guns are basically useless. Cutter thinks he's therefore invincible, but he hasn't accounted for the possibility that Minkowski might have a less conventional weapon on hand, one which fires larger projectiles that he can't catch so easily. The fact that she's carrying an unexpected weapon - a weapon that might have seemed ridiculous - is what allows her to defeat Cutter and therefore to survive. 

It's a repeated theme in Wolf 359 that the protagonists' strength is not that they are the most powerful or they behave in the most logical ways, but that they are complicated and human and unpredictable and very much themselves - all of the things that Cutter and Pryce don't want in their 'ideal humanity'. When Minkowski kills Cutter with the harpoon, it's a victory for human unpredictability and individual idiosyncrasies.

Making good on her promise

Thinking back to Minkowski Commanding, we can see that the threat Minkowski made to the plant monster absolutely came true with Cutter. He got complacent. He got smug. (I'd argue that smugness has always been one of his key attributes.) And he found her waiting for him, with a goddamn harpoon. The return of the harpoon for this moment suggests the defeat of Cutter is a culmination of some of the motivations and traits that Minkowski showed when hunting the plant monster, now channeled in a more suitable direction. She continued trying to get them "that much closer to going home". Her - sometimes absurd - determination provides a throughline from an episode that was mostly comedic (Minkowski Commanding) to a dramatic emotionally powerful finale. As Sarah Shachat put it in her audio commentary, Minkowski "makes good on her promise [that she makes in her harpoon speech in Minkowski Commanding]. That's why she's a hero."

It's significant that Cutter dies from an unlikely weapon that is so strongly identified with Minkowski. It makes that moment feel like truly hers (although she is of course right that she couldn't have done it without Lovelace - that's called being part of a crew). 

As the Commander, it feels apt that Minkowski is the one to kill the long-standing 'big bad'. Pryce is arguably the same level of antagonist as Cutter, but he's the one that we've been aware of since we became aware of larger sinister forces at work in this narrative. 

And if Minkowski has a personal nemesis, it's Cutter. He's the one who recruited her into the hellscape that is the Hephaestus. He played on her ambitions to get her where he wanted her. She trusted him the way she trusted the official chain of authority at the start of the mission. And that trust was extremely misplaced.

The significance of Minkowski being the one to kill Cutter is highlighted by the fact that she kills him with a weapon that only she uses, a weapon that links us back to her behaviour 40 episodes earlier. The sense of control that she was desperately seeking in Minkowski Commanding might not be completely within her grasp by the end of the finale, but she's reclaimed a piece of it by defeating the man who has been exerting control over her life for so long. And she did it with that goddamn harpoon.

#It's harpoon time!! #Honestly I think there's probably still lots more to say #but this is plenty to be getting on with #Feel free to share your own thoughts #Wolf 359 #w359 #Renée Minkowski #The stuff about human unpredictability was inspired a lot by conversations with my friend @commsroom #so she'd be in my bibliography if I had one #Something that didn't really fit in here but feels relevant is the way that fans #(particularly podcast fans who don't have canon appearances to go off) #will use certain characteristics/ objects/ clothing choices to make a character identifiable in art #Like if I see art of a Wolf 359 character with some combination of cigarette/ headphones/ Star Wars t-shirt #I know it's Eiffel even if it doesn't look like my mental idea of him #And the harpoon is definitely part of that shorthand for Minkowski #because no one else would have it #so lots of Minkowski art features the harpoon #which strengthens the associations that I'm talking about in this post #And that's interesting to me #because it's an unintended way in which fandom has the potential to influence how people perceive a character #but I think in this case it just adds further value to things that are already implied in canon #Renee Minkowski #Commander Minkowski #w359 spoilers #wolf 359 spoilers #the empty man posteth

[fromtheseventhhell]

"It's normal for siblings to fight" Okay well it's not normal to be extremely classist and look down on your sister for being non-conforming. Or to go to the woman who ordered the death of your pet to tell her about your father's plans, when he specifically warned you against doing so, because you want to marry the boy you saw attack your sister and her friend (contributing partially to said father's death and your sister being unable to escape on the ship he chartered). Or to think of your sibling as unsatisfactory in comparison to another when you believe her to be dead. I notice that none of the "Sansa and Arya are going to reunite and instantly have no issues" crowd ever acknowledge any of this, which makes it seem like they don't actually believe what they say about their relationship being normal and easily reconciled. People wanting them to have no issues simply because they're siblings is another example of how fandom likes to flatten complex characters and relationships. They get reduced to being bickering siblings when their conflict runs deeper than that. If the author is telling you that they have "deep issues" to work out [X], I don't understand being so adamant about ignoring said issues. I also get the sense it's about ignoring the capacity for a certain character to be flawed, but that isn't going to change the fact that her "slip of the tongue" is very likely to be revealed and a source of further conflict 🤷🏾‍♀️

#arya stark #sansa stark #house stark #asoiaf #also if it's so normal for siblings to fight then why are you guys losing your minds over us theorizing they won't get along?? #the amount of condescending /that's just how siblings act/ takes I see 🙄 #sorry I guess? that we read the book and don't just delete parts of the story because we find it convenient? #it's not even like takes about them being enemies is widespread the most I see is that they aren't instantly bffs when they reunite 😭 #some people theorize they'll never be close but guess what? that's a completely fair and valid assumption based on their relationship! #personally I think they'll have a sweet reunion before the issues they have inevitably surface again because while they've been through #a lot they haven't fundamentally changed as people or the values they hold #and I think that's going to be very interesting to read about! #I can't figure out why people always take the most boring bland route for how things will play out #mostly because people seem to be unable to swallow the concept that Sansa is a flawed character who isn't perfectly sweet all the time #and the fact that their conflict is instigated by Sansa's classism #which is funny cause in the grand scheme of things her being mean to Arya is such a mild thing that opens the door to a ton of growth #never seen anybody but stansas equating her being a bully to her sister to her being evil/a villain #all we do is point out that it exists in the story...people in this fandom have no concept of nuance I stg 😭 #anyways they're both complex characters and their conflict is interesting and I hope we get to see how it plays out #cause it's definitely going to be better then that trash d&d came up with 🙏🏾

[gen-is-gone]

my for some reason unpopular opinion is that it's boring when Fitz remains unhinged levels of self-deluded and closeted actually. Why does he have to be doctor who's answer to dean winchester, huh? why would this man in his mid-thirties who has spent at least a decade traveling in time and space still have weird insane hangups about being attracted to dudes? why does that need to be the thing about the text that we all collectively think is worth taking at face value? it's boring and fucking depressing and honestly doesn't make sense when the future of humanity in doctor who is that bisexuality is the cultural default and completely unremarkable.

#like geez I don't think that making it to thirty+ years old and still being afraid and filled with self-hatred is funny actually #eighth doctor adventures #eighth doctor #fitz kreiner #megan whines into the empty abyss of cyberspace #it's also weird because this definitely wasn't the attitude in fandom ten years ago #my suspicion is that Steve Cole's confirmation that Fitz was always meant to be bi made people start taking the text literally #in a way folks didn't before when slash shipping culture was just used to reading against a text as a default #like I vaguely recall a post going around shortly after that was confirmed in 2019 #that brought up how Fitz being canonically bi meant that all his weird hangups couldn't be handwaved away now #because if fandom made him bi against canon then you could just ignore his weirder no homo moments #but if he was intentionally written as bi then he was also intentionally written as deeply closeted #and like. that's true. but also you can just do whatever the fuck you want with canon no matter what #and also like #sure many of the writers were writing him as queer intentionally #but like the writing in the EDAs is so inconsistent of course some people are going to write weird no homo crap #because those writers weren't comfortable with queerness even if Cole's intent was that Fitz was bi #like The Gallifrey Chronicles's whole thing with Fitz and Trix is one long lance parkin no homo moment #does that really matter more than textual evidence that he is attracted to men and knows this about himself? #like I just don't know how you reconcile 'Fitz will bend over backwards to pretend he's straight' with #'a consideration of his chances of [...] getting laid by the Doctor' #or for that matter 'with the Doctor it's the real thing' #or the really really heavy implication that he and Sasha had a one night stand in History 101 #or that he and George went on a date in Camera Obscura which led to Fitz being invited on the Siberia expedition in the first place #and again and I can't emphasize this enough: why is this the thing about 'canon' that is so worth keeping? #why is Fitz being depressing levels of in denial more fun than him being openly bi? #destielification of Eight/Fitz smh

[dollypopup]

y'all can all cancel me (again) for this, but if there's even a SHRED of 'who should I pick?' from Penelope in season 3, I am tuning out SO fast because like. . .sorry not sorry, there IS no choice. Debling is some crusty OC suitor she barely even knows and Colin is a man who she has been so supposedly in love with to the point where she'd ruin her entire family's reputation to have a potential love story with him. Penelope and Colin have background, years of knowing each other, intimacy that few people in the Ton can boast of having (letters, conversations about purpose, fights and arguments and makeups) and her and Debling have. . .a dance or two at a ball because he's a rebound for Penelope's broken heart. he means nothing. he has no nuance, he has no weight to the story, he is such an afterthought to me. either I wanna see Penelope going 'you know what? I don't even LIKE this dude. he's. . .fine, but I don't care about him even a shred as much as I care about Colin' or the INSTANT Colin's like 'you know what? we should get married' if it's not an immediate 'say less, you're already my husband, try returning me without the receipt, Debling whomst?' then I don't want it!

like. . .it's just so frustrating to see all the 'I hope Debling sweeps her off her feet and she rejects Colin's proposal and she makes him work for it and and and-' nonsense from the fandom and it's always tagged and no matter how many times I block it, it just keeps popping up. I go into the Polin tag for POLIN. I don't give a SHIT about a male love interest other than Colin. Not one. Not a shred. Not an iota.

and also. . .Debling has the 'benefit' of not having depth, or character traits, or HISTORY, so peeps can project onto him however they want, but I'm calling it now, there is NOTHING he could do or be that would make me like him more than Colin. Colin will always hit different, and I will always love him more. and if Pen's not on that same page? lol bye

you want me to believe Penelope and Colin are soulmates and it's romance for her to hem and haw about how difficult a decision it is for her to marry a stranger who knows barely anything about her. . .

when Marina was out here dropping banger lines like 'You were the only man with which I could see myself being happy' and 'I do not care about any of these men, where is Colin?'? like hello??? and she wasn't even fully in love with him!!!! but we'll demonize her until the cows come home in our fandom and make her the villain in Polin's love story for DARING to get in between Polin, yet Debling, a white man, is a darling dear perfect prince for getting in between Polin? existing in our fandom solely so Penelope can be like 'lol, Colin ain't shit, let me entertain any and everyone else'?

if that's the direction it goes then, ten toes down and on my mama, she doesn't deserve Colin and she can move because I'm on my way to court him my damn self

and that's that on that

#you know what? lol it's been a bit since i've posted a controversial opinion #tagging it #polin #sorry not sorry i ship polin. . .so i wanna see. . .polin. . .and i'm getting damn sick and tired #of all the bullshit pen/oc pen/other dude theories and stories in the polin tag #and i don't want polin to lose screentime over a frankly bleh male oc #you can't change my mind #if i don't see at least marina's 'you've seen him with the little bridgertons!' level of squee and 'i only want to talk to colin' #levels of devotion then i don't fucking WANT IT!!!!! #yeah definitely try out the marriage market #realize that NO ONE has a good time on the marriage market #try to get over him w/ whomstever #but then be like 'i don't even LIKE this dude where's colin i miss him' about it!!!!! #because otherwise i am not here #i am asleep #and i am courting colin in your place pen #i'm coming for your man #anti debling #if debling has 100 haters i am one of them if he has 10 haters i'm one of them if he has 1 hater i am the hater if he has 0 haters i'm dead #it's incredibly obvious that 'pebling' is half rooted in a revenge storyline fueled by anger at Colin and his complexity #and half a projection of wanting Penelope to have 'choices' because she is a representation and manifestation of the fans themselves #and so people think an OC that can be 'perfect' for them- whoops I mean Pen (because he doesn't have any real depth or interest) #he's a cardboard cutout we can throw whatever you want onto #so we can make him 'perfect' instead of the much more meaningful storyline of pen and colin both being messy and loving each other more #and part of it is bitterness over Polin not being insta-love #which. . .if it was i wouldn't like them as much as i do #anyways y'all ain't slick #and it's fucking WEIRD to be in a fandom that's like 'i ship this couple but i hope she gets with ANYONE else' #maybe you. . .don't ship the couple?? #like. . .to the point of wanting her necklace to be from debling. . .and her wearing it everywhere??? WHAT??

[rhaenin-time]

It's deeply uncomfortable how so many people use the word "colonizer" as an acceptable stand-in for "foreigner I don't like" when talking about how evil the Targaryens are. You might not see yourself, but I see you.

#seriously take the word 'colonizer' out and you'll find so many rants just dripping with xenophobia against the 'othered' weirdoes #no you don't get to coopt words with actual meanings so you can 'acceptably' cosplay as a bigot #I really don't mind people using fiction to talk about colonization I actually think it's good #what i do mind is people trying to water down the definition of a concept they don't even care enough to learn about #outside of how they can use it against “foreigners” they don't like #asoiaf #asoiaf fandom #house targaryen

[springs-hurts]

Okay it's little sad but kind of funny how Merlin didn't know his father, Arthur didn't know his mother as in just one parent. Arthur was good with swords, Merlin had magic...

Meanwhile Morgana and Morgause- both Orphans,both had magic and were good with swords, a complete package 😭😭🙏🙏

#We definitely did not need Arthur and Merlin #Just kidding #In all seriousness #Don't think Morgana was as good with swords as fandom likes to portray #Because Arthur worked on his skills #Had tutors to help him #Morgana #Don't think she had that much training #And anyway #Who cares #Arthur was best warrior out there go argue with a wall #But I digress #Morgause was a later addition #Later as in #In my mind later #Anyway #So Merlin and Arthur were completing each other #Morgana didn't need anyone else to complete her #That's why she didn't need any partner #Yes #bbc merlin #bbc arthur #BBC Morgana #Morgana pendragon #arthur pendragon #merlin bbc #Arthur and Merlin #Two sides of same coin #Morgana was like- I don't need an other half #I'm enough for myself

[bugsbenefit]

re leaks i know i just complained about being annoyed However it's genuinely funny to me that as soon as we get any, and i mean any new set or shot of the actors there's at least 3 "so Byler kiss is happening there?" posts on my dash, like yeah you're having fun sure, that's the kind of engagement with leaks i can ignore and be slightly confused by. i think we should all say more random words

#no i am Slightly annoyed by it #i'm assuming most people that are saying it are kidding tho #and don't genuinely think Mike and Will will kiss in the UD and at McCorkle farm and in a field and at Lovers Lake and and and #asjfhajhahah #people seeing unsupported leaks and immediately integrating them into their core beliefs about the show? boooo #people seeing a leak and go 'so byler is happening here?' is like a giant bit to me and i can live with it #sure byler kiss at the haunted light flickering hospital. good for them #(the fandoms insane focus on byler does get grating because even things that are Definitely not about byler get put #through the byler lens wringer. but it's so absurd it's like a bit to me)

[scoliosisgoblin]

yo, @bennydunbar, check this out

#he tried dying his hair blue on his own for the first time. he went to professionals all the other times #ignore the fact he doesn't have lip piercings in the bottom three #I forgot them and it was too late to draw them #plus who fucking cares I'm the boss around here hehe uhm um actually he took it out because he felt like it #these are simple designs but fun to draw nonetheless #also I've been doing these types of backgrounds lately because I'm too lazy to figure out how to do a proper one #sue me #I draw shit late at night when I've got shit the next day #keeps me entertained #that and also I always feel so inspired during the worst times #but that's a different story #HOPE YOU LIKE THEM BENNY <3 #I will DEFINITELY draw you another design if you send me on you wanna see him with :3 #my art #your boyfriend game #yb fandom #yb game #yb peter #yb fanart #yb art #yb #your boyfriend peter #your boyfriend fanart #your boyfriend #peter dunbar #peter your boyfriend #peter yb #ybg peter #ybg #I don't think I like the heart dyes actually but oh well. I'm already at 30 tags

[queenhawke]

the thing about apple tv+'s non-hit show mythic quest (2020-?) is that: is it good? who's to say. but goddamn if that larp episode didn't completely break my brain and now i haven't stopped thinking about it for two straight years

#mythic quest #don't ask me if it's a good show or not i am incapable of being subjective about it #i mean s2 is definitely good. i think. #quarantine is good #everlight is the best episode of a show ever. if you ask me #but s1? s3??? it's anyone's guess #anyway i Am in Hell #bc who knows when we'll get a new season what with the strike #and this fandom is tiny so i don't even have that much fanfic to tide me over #autism is a curse why can't i hyperfixate on something useful like math

[statementlou]

How does one become your friend?

honestly I'm so mentally compromised by fatigue today that my answer- I don't know??- sent me into an actual spiral of "do I not know how to be a friend to myself is it a commentary on my psychological health and state of being" sooooo might just have to leave all that aside and go with, uh, try messaging or chatting some way? I'm generally afraid of bothering people, what if they think I'm a creep, but I usually like it when people talk to me and then boom! I, at least, consider us friends- same as most people on here I'd guess. But watch out! I am annoying and unless discouraged will then consider us pals forever if we have two friendly interactions, sorry.

#to be honest there are many people on here I don't talk to and maybe aren't even mutuals with who I kind of consider friends #but that definitely might just be in my head lol #I see familiar names and think oh hey guys. here we are. hanging out :) #thornier questions include how to be a friend? does chit chat a friend make? should I be doing more? #things I am good at: talking about fandom stuff. annoyingly ranting about fandom stuff #things I am not good at: talking about RL stuff. not being awkward if attempting to address real life stuff #fun fact got this and a troll ask together and was like... are they making fun of me? will this one disappear when I block the other one? #but it didn't so I guess it might be real? feel weird posting but would feel weirder not answering #idk you guys should answer in replies how does one become friends with anyone online what do you think?

[haunt-the-house]

hey. hey, I love damien so much. but he's kinda an awful person/friend, to be honest?

Like canonically has done some shady stuff with money (considering he's mayor, it's not wild to guess that he was using tax money for something he shouldn't have).

he also was shown to be both manipulative and very easily betrayed us/the da despite being long-time friends. (No matter what fanfic writers may want, damien was not being forced by celine, wkm Fandom celine is not the root of all evil in the lore).

he also tried to cover for william literally murdering someone (there is the nuance of grief muddling people's emotions and having both victim and perpetrator be his childhood bestfriends don't get me wrong...but at the same time dude your best friend just died after having a very rough couple of years before but you're fully sided with the guy who had an affair with your sister????)

my point can be easily shortened to this; Damien is not a morally perfect person. This does not make him a bad character. stop making characters worse for him to be better in fan stuff, and if i see another uwu version of him, I'll die.

(note: this doesn't mean he can't be nice and tbh out of the main cast of wkm, he's definitely on the morally higher ground BUT LET HIM NOT BE PERFECT THATS LEGIT AN IMPORTANT ASPECT OF HIS CHARACTER)

#this is a very rambled post but hopefully i convay my opinion correctly #also im definitely not the first person to have this type of opinion but i feel like it needs to be said again #also I may talk one day more on that whole celine point but despite the many years #i don't think this fandom is quite ready to talk about that #I finally made a fandom blog after all this time and I'm now so ready to give all my unwanted opinions 😭 #long post #wkm #who killed markiplier #wkm damien #mayor damien #idk how unpopular this is as a thought but its legit all stuff from canon

[furby-junkie]

PrettyGreen's video about the Furbtrees campaign from 2023

Source

#correct me if I've got the definition of AR wrong because I don't think this counts as AR #or anything related to it #this was just an advertising scheme involving videos of CGI Furbys being animated on top of footage of Christmas trees that #had already been filmed #afaik there was no app to download or website that allowed people standing infront of the trees to see them #covered in animated Furbys on their phone screens #saying this has something to do with AR feels misleading #furby #furby fandom #furby community #furby furblets #safe furby #all furby #furby 2023

[fromtheseventhhell]

Interesting how the Trident incident is the only moment where people question Joffrey's capacity for cruelty. He is almost universally considered one of the worst asoiaf characters, with no redeemable qualities. No one ever attempts to justify his actions when he abuses Sansa, orders Ned's executions, or any of his other many acts of violence. It's only this moment, a moment meant to introduce us to his cruel nature, that people seem to believe him to be a rational character with limits. It's honestly laughable. It's evident that the people who think like this are just biased against Arya; the majority of these arguments are centered not around Joffrey's violence, but Arya's actions to defend Mycah. People seem to truly believe that the better option would have been to let Joffrey "have his fun" and torment Mycah.

Debating how badly Joffrey would've hurt Mycah misses the entire point of the moment. Joffrey attacks Mycah because he's lowborn, he finds amusement in tormenting others, and he knows he can get away with it. He was quick to pull his sword and draw blood and, from what we know of his character, he undoubtedly would've taken it further. Arya stands up to him because she thinks that Mycah is worth defending which is significant considering she is the only one to do so. She is also the only character who mourns him and is affected by his senseless death, even books later (Ned is affected by his death but I wouldn't say he mourns him, although it is a moment that influences his feelings towards the Lannisters and Robert). Even if, which is a very big if, Joffery hadn't intended to go any further he had already crossed a line by attacking Mycah. The only alternative would be that Arya simply sits by and watches Joffrey further injure Mycah...and that's somehow the "better" option?

The people coming to the conclusion that Arya was the one who escalated the situation (and that it's somehow not Joffrey pulling his sword on an innocent boy) are coming from the perspective of the classist society that they live in. Joffrey attacking a lowborn boy wasn't an issue worth action, but harming a prince is "wrong". Mycah being attacked, and later murdered, is seen as inconsequential to the other characters (and readers) because he is lowborn. That's the thing though. You aren't supposed to look at this situation where a young boy is murdered for no reason and think that the only one who defended should've behaved differently. This moment is a criticism of the classist society these characters live in. It is significant that Arya is markedly less classist than a majority of other characters and cares when no one else does.

Further, if Arya were truly in the wrong for her actions then Joffrey wouldn't have needed to lie about what happened. From the very existence of the "trial" and Arya being given the chance to tell her version of events, we know that there wouldn't be any punishment if the truth of the situation had been told from the very beginning. The only reason there was an issue is because Joffrey decided to attack Mycah, and then later lie about what happened. Arya is not responsible for Joffrey's cruelty, Cersei's enabling, or Robert's subsequent apathy. The fact that people can't seem to comprehend this is maddening. I've never seen people have the same attitude towards Sansa for speaking up for Dontos, even though it incurred Joffrey's wrath and would've escalated had Sandor not spoken up. Why are Sansa's actions brave and kind, but Arya's are seen as stupid and reckless? What happened to not blaming young characters for the actions of others?

This is one of those things where the fandom decides for themselves that they know the story being told, without actually looking at how it's written. They would rather debate on (baseless) hypotheticals than look at why George presented the story to us the way he did. It takes an insane amount of misinterpretation to decide that Arya's actions are the reason for Mycah's death and misses a, rather large, point being made by the author. Notably, none of these people can ever provide evidence from the book to support their insistence that Joffrey would've simply left Mycah alone. You would think that since that's the basis of their argument and they're so adamant that their analysis is correct, they would be able to support their reasoning. It's almost as though the books don't support their interpretations...

#arya stark #ned stark #joffrey baratheon #the trident incident #anti arya bs #fandom nonsense #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #people are joining the class wars on the side of classism and that's just insane to me sdksdkdsk #you are not supposed to think that Arya defending a lowborn boy being attacked is wrong! or that her not being classist is wrong oh my god #yeah George's point was totally that it's better to bow to classist ideals than defend those who are unfairly treated /srs #he wrote a bunch of characters victimized by a bigoted society cause he was in a silly goofy mood he definitely wasn't making a point 🤪 #I've said this before but it really is alarming that George has more progressive ideas then a lot of people in fandom #anyways it rocks that Arya defended Mycah it rocks that she isn't classist it rocks that she wants justice for him #it rocks that she's constantly thinking about trying to protect those who can't protect themselves and that she wants justice for them #hurray for privileged characters growing beyond the ignorance of the society they were raised in!!! #praying people don't try and misinterpret what I said because my point about Sansa/Dontos isn't that she was wrong for speaking up for him #it's that people are hypocritical and biased when it comes to Arya and her behavior #the same people who say you can't blame Sansa for lying will blame Arya for Mycah and Lady's death it's honestly hilarious