#deltarune analysis

[a-town-called-hometown]

yippee! apologies if my takes are horrendously bad

my personal take on the matter is that i definitely think the dark worlds can work as a metaphor for escapism without undermining the darkners' personhood. it can be more than one thing, yknow? the darkners are important, their lives matter. and the lightners do go to the dark world as an escape from the problems they face in their own life. but that's not the darkners' whole PURPOSE, yknow? i mean. according to the laws of the universe of deltarune yes darkners' "purpose" is to serve the lightners but like it's not their whole purpose in the STORY.

it's sort of like how, in UNDERTALE, LOVE represents how distant you've become, how easy it is for you to hurt people. but it also literally gives you the power to destroy the world.

i think the biggest reason i believe escapism is at least a part of deltarune's narrative is queen.

queen's whole speech in both of her fights is about how she intends to provide escapism for the lightners (so that they will worship her but also so that they will he happy). she wants to turn the whole world into a dark world, so that everyone can live in bliss and not have to worry about the woes of the light world. she mentions "Staring, Tapping, To Receive Joy. Staring, Tapping, To Avoid Pain." which is like pretty much the definition of escapism

she wants to help Noelle with the problems she faces in the light world ("Noelle. Who Will Be There To Help Her? Her Strange And Sad Searches" and "My One Idea To Help Noelle, Failed") by just... shoving it away for a blissful fantasy world ("Wake? No, She Has Already Awakened Too Much. Let Her Close Her Eyes And Sleep Away, Into A Darker, Darker Dream.")

...i forgot the rest of what i wanted to say!

well first off, thank you for your ask! I'm going to get extremely in depth in my answer, so bear with me here. sorry it took several weeks to write this. the escapism reading of deltarune is pretty deeply entrenched in fandom, and to refute it, I felt it required a full-length essay to completely explain my viewpoint.

yes, "the lightners desire escapism" does not automatically translate to that being the darkners' actual narrative purpose. escapism can be a theme without dehumanizing those who are used in order to escape - in fact, I've read a number of stories that use someone's desire to escape to HIGHLIGHT how they're hurting others in pursuit of that. I believe that toby fox is definitely capable of telling a story about kids having a valid desire to escape, and about them grappling with having inadvertently created a world of real, living people as a result.

(I'll reiterate again that this is not the story arc that generally shows up in fanon. the common consensus is that the game will end in an omori-esque "growing out of" the dark worlds. it's why I have a huge dislike of the fanon escapism reading, given that the darkners are shown as people whose lack of agency parallels kris' own. it would feel cheap if the resolution to that plot was that the darkners were actually never meant to be agents in their own fates. but this is a digression.)

the reason why i DON'T believe that this is a story that toby fox is telling is because of the way the world, themes, and characters are written. put simply, it just doesn't come across as congruent with the story being told.

deltarune's main themes are agency, fate, identity, and control. this is a conflict that shows up in nearly every major character, is baked into the worldbuilding, and is the central struggle involving us, the player. the protagonist of deltarune is literally possessed by us against their will. the darkners are objects that have no choice but to serve and be discarded. over and over again, there is emphasis on roles that characters play - and crucially, roles that are imposed on them.

what would escapism mean, in this thematic context? in real life, escapism can represent any number of things, but in a story, a major narrative theme generally has to dovetail with other major narrative themes in the work. I would argue that escapism in deltarune would likely mean going to a place where characters are able to choose for themselves what roles they embody, or even to discard the notion of roles altogether. a fantasy of control is the only way to escape a reality where you have no agency. and honestly, it's hard to imagine that something could count as an escapist fantasy if you don't even get to choose whether or not you participate in it.

let's talk about kris.

I see a lot of discussions around kris that say that kris goes into the dark worlds to escape. the dark worlds are posited as kris' fantasy of heroism. it's a world where they can seem heroic and cool, a world where they can have friends. this theory makes a decent amount of sense on the surface level, but only until you consider that kris is being controlled in order to go into the dark worlds. and it is not a control that they appear to welcome.

if those worlds represent kris' fantasy, then why don't they get to choose what happens in those fantasies? why are they being controlled by an external force, one that they actively push back against? if it's really an escape, then why does everything about this world reflect their lack of agency? if they really think this world is just a pure fantasy, then why do they care if spamton falls when his strings are cut?

because they're being deliberately obscured to the player, it is hard to say how kris actually feels about many subjects... but I do seriously doubt that they view the dark worlds as an escape. they don't act in a way that is consistent with that. they resist their lack of agency, and what little we do see of their reactions to darkner characters doesn't suggest that they view those characters as part of a disposable fantasy, either. they seem to have complicated feelings on ralsei. and of course, one of their biggest emotional reactions in the game is to the spamton fight. I would argue that that suggests they have empathy for spamton, which is a hard emotional reaction to have if you believe he's just part of a fantasy. not impossible, mind you, but it seems unlikely that kris believes that all this is simply fantasy.

also, considering that snowgrave both actively discredits the idea that the dark worlds are mere fantasy and is actively traumatic for kris... I seriously doubt they'd open another dark world in chapter 3 on a snowgrave run if their motive was purely to escape. on that route, they've seen the damage we can cause in a dark world. they know that berdly has sustained lasting damage due to our actions, assuming he's not outright dead. why would they want to try and "escape" to a place like that again now that they know what can happen?

the only answer is that they have a motive that isn't escapist.

now, as for ralsei... what part does he have to play in all this?

ralsei does play a lot to the fun, fantastical elements of the dark worlds. he delivers the prophecy that kickstarts the adventure. he flatters both kris and susie endlessly when they act appropriately heroic. he welcomes them into the castle and even makes nice rooms for them. he initially seems tailor-made to enable a fantastical experience where no real issues can ever complicate anything, and where the pain of reality can successfully be hidden from. but there's a lot of complications to the idea that he might represent an escapist fantasy.

the first, and what honestly seems the most important to me, is that he doesn't encourage kris and susie to remain in the dark worlds. he is welcoming and kind, but once the adventure is over, he prompts them to return to the light world. he wants them to deal with their more "real" problems like homework. that doesn't feel like he is trying to facilitate escapism in them. a real fantasy would encourage you to stay in it, wouldn't it?

and while ralsei is definitely invested in making sure the lightners are happy, there are always cracks that show. he isn't able to make kris ignore what happened in the spamton fight. he isn't able to convince susie to be peaceful and kind. and in his very essence, he represents a number of uncomfortable ideas. very importantly, he represents a number of uncomfortable ideas to kris.

this probably ain't your first fandom rodeo, so I'm not going to explain all the different ways that ralsei interacts with kris' personal issues. there's plenty of posts on it out there. what i will point out is, once again, it feels odd that a character who seems tailor made to bring up kris' most uncomfortable associations with their lack of agency and their outsider status in their own family would be part of a fantasy of escapism to them. you'd think that they'd prefer something that didn't have an inbuilt hierarchy, a prophecy that denied them autonomy, or especially a person that reminded them how little they fit into hometown.

that doesn't mean kris doesn't care about him at all - it seems very likely that they do. what I mean to say here is that he just seems ill-suited to an escapism reading, both behaviorally and on a conceptual level. it doesn't seem like that's at all part of his servitude towards the lightners.

of course, there is another non-lightner entity that ralsei seems diegetically engineered to serve. but I'll discuss that later.

now as for susie...

yes, susie definitely views the dark worlds as more fun than the light world. and why wouldn't she? the light world sucks for her, and she doesn't seem very aware of the fact that the dark world can also suck. you could definitely make the argument that she views the dark worlds as a fantastical escape from reality... were it not for the fact that she treats her darkner friends with just as much importance as she does kris and noelle.

can someone treat components of an escapist fantasy as real and important? of course. but given deltarune's themes of agency and control, as well as the fact that darkners exist in servitude to the lightners, I feel like you'd have to make escapism tie into forcing others into a lack of agency if you wanted the theme to feel coherent with the rest of the work. this would require susie to be limiting the agency of the darkners around her. and obviously, she doesn't do that. her presence around them might be inherently limiting, just by simple virtue of being a lightner, but she isn't aware of it, and clearly is uncomfortable with the idea of limiting anyone's agency. she encourages ralsei to make choices. and she supports lancer in basically anything he wants to do. her treatment of lancer is integral to chapter 1's narrative, and it seems like that treatment of ralsei is integral to the ongoing narrative as well!

her preference for the dark world feels very rooted in her engagement with it as its own reality. rather than trying to avoid her real-life problems by engaging in a pretense, she seems to simply want to spend time with her friends in a place that isn't cruel to her. she isn't ignoring any of the dark world's problems in service of that, either. she notices when things don't line up. if she thought of it as a fantasy, wouldn't she be inclined to ignore issues that impede the fantasy?

and critically - like kris, she does not intentionally choose her imposed role in the prophecy at first. she steps into the role of bad guy to resist it, but that role is limiting too, and she eventually acquiesces to being a hero. it's never something she's completely on board with, though. she actively pushes back the limitations that the role places on her. I find this important to reiterate when we are discussing the notion of the characters viewing the dark worlds as fantasy.

noelle has a complicated relationship to the dark worlds. susie tells her that it's a dream to make her accept the strange reality she finds herself in, which works well on her. she continues to think of it as a strange dream throughout the chapter. (though, like the others, it is not a 'dream' she entered of her own volition!)

it is also a markedly unpleasant 'dream' at times. she has her agency restricted, is kidnapped, has to evade a controlling monarch, and is even tied up in a weird evangelion cross thing on the hand of a giant robot. it's not purely fun. noelle does like scary things, and while it might be healthy for her to have an experience where she stands up to a controlling adult figure... again, the circumstances make it difficult for me to assume that this is a fantasy she would choose for herself. not impossible, mind you, but it's not the first reading of the situation that comes to mind.

and while she does say she wishes she could dream like this every day in the normal route, that does happen specifically because she was talking to the girl she likes. it makes sense she'd find that pleasant. I don't think that necessarily equates to her finding the dark worlds escapist.

and importantly, this isn't the sentiment that she expresses in every route.

again, there's a lot of analysis on snowgrave, so I won't bother regurgitating it much here. but it's nightmarish for both kris and noelle, and very likely fatal for berdly. noelle needs to believe that the event is a dream, for her own psychological safety, but one of the most important parts of snowgrave...

...is that its events, and the world it took place in, are very, very real.

noelle wants to have the strength to face her problems, both in the regular route and in the snowgrave route. rather than escaping from them, she views the "dream" as a chance to practice dealing with her day-to-day issues. it's just that in the regular route she finds that strength authentically, and in the snowgrave route, that desire is manipulated and pushed until she is forced to kill berdly. she doesn't interpret snowgrave as an escape gone wrong. she views it as a dream that became a nightmare. and those are two extremely different things.

but i haven't even gotten to the biggest thing that undermines the concept that the dark worlds are a metaphor for escapism! which is: this fucking guy is dead wrong about everything.

so full disclaimer - I really love berdly. I think he's slept on a lot in the fandom because he's annoying and weird. which is fair, I suppose, but I think ignoring him hinders a lot of people's understanding of deltarune's overall narrative. because berdly often illustrates a lot of concepts in the game, but his narrative framing as a joke (usually...) prevents the player from taking it completely seriously. he has things to say and ideas to show off, it's just that he's often very loud and kind of dumb in his expression of them. which is kind of the point!

ralsei brings up the idea that the darkners are meant to serve the lightners very seriously in chapter one. by extension, and by way of the literal mechanics involved in a dark world's creation, we can infer that this logic is probably something that also applies to the dark worlds themselves. they are allegedly worlds and characters that only are supposed to fulfill a dream of the lightners. but due to narrative framing and deltarune's themes, we know that that's not the full truth. however dark worlds and darkners are created, they deserve to have their own agency. they can't just exist to fulfill a higher being's wishes.

you know who else undermines that view of the dark worlds? berdly! berdly does!!!!

because berdly is the only lightner in the game so far who does take the dark worlds to be an escapist adventure! he wants to turn cyber world into smartopia. he views this as a chance to be a cool hero. he believes he's going to get the girl, he's going to shape this world to his own liking, and maybe also he's going to get queen to acknowledge him or something so he stops being a forgettable little bluebird. and not only does none of this happen, his steadfast belief that it will happen is continually a joke within the narrative!!

berdly's wishes for uncomplicated escapist fantasy are flat-out denied by the dark worlds themselves. as a lightner, those worlds should be serving him. he should have the power to do whatever he wants within the bounds of an escapist fantasy. these npcs should be singing his praises!

but he doesn't have the power. and this world doesn't sing his praise. because it just isn't an escapist fantasy. he isn't right to view it that way. his wishes for heroism are always going to be thwarted.

so now that I've gotten all that out of the way, let's swing back over to the subject of your original ask. queen.

because, like berdly, queen's entire character arc is about how she's completely wrong about what the lightners actually want.

queen would in fact like nothing more to place the lightners into an escapist fantasy. she believes that that's the best way to serve them and make them happy forever. as a darkner, queen has very much internalized the idea that a lack of control is what actually makes people happy. since darkners have no choice in their destinies and are supposed to be happy in it, and since she personally finds her role as a darkner fulfilling, she believes that that's true of all people everywhere. if you want to make people happy, you just have to remove that pesky personal agency!

so she spends the story trying to force the lightners and particularly noelle into situations where she controls them in order to make them ostensibly happier. she does genuinely believe that this is the right thing to do, but as she finds out eventually, she's just wrong. noelle doesn't want that. queen believes that escapism is why the lightners use the internet... but that's totally wrong too.

while there are other searches mixed in, noelle is trying to use the internet to find her sister. instead of trying to hide from whatever happened, noelle wants to figure it out. queen's thesis about noelle and the lightners is proven wrong even before she personally encounters noelle in the dark world. it's just that queen doesn't realize it due to her limited perspective.

the concept of escapism being brought up with both queen and berdly is not there to say that the dark world is escapist. rather, it's there to say that it isn't. despite the dark worlds being a fantastical place, they are extremely real. to view them as a means of escape is foolhardy at best. you cannot act as though you are above consequences within them.

themes and ideas exist within the story for a sake of an audience. so let's get into the final character I need to discuss here. hopefully this will tie my thesis of deltarune together neatly.

that character is of course us. the player.

when creating a piece of fiction, an astute author will often identify and anticipate an audience's reactions to certain things in their work, and write things in such a way that they elicit the desired reactions. in essence, a writer is directing the "character" of the audience. how we feel and how we are anticipated to react to things is an integral part of nearly every fiction.

that effect is far more overt when dealing with metanarrative fiction that diegetically involves the audience. since the fiction is saying a lot of things about the general 'you,' the audience in aggregate, your reactions to certain things in the story have to be finely cued and anticipated by the author, so that the author can thus commentate on the reactions that you have to the story. the "character" you are assumed to inhabit is posited by the author to have certain traits.

to explain what I mean in plainer terms, I'll use the player of undertale's no mercy route as an example. because undertale is commenting on the way rpgs generally work. the player's behaviors in no mercy are attributed by characters in the story to be the result of us acting like a typical gamer. we kill the characters in the game because we want exp. and more than that, it's because we want to see everything the game has to offer. the role we inhabit in this role-playing game is that of a completionist. you could say that that's assumed to be our "character" in no mercy.

deltarune also posits that certain things are true of its audience. by being written to evoke certain cultural ideas, rpg tropes, and references to undertale, it guarantees that its audience will probably have certain traits, and spends a large amount of its conceptual focus commenting on those traits. one of those traits is nostalgia, which is probably an idea that I'll expound upon in a further essay because it's quite integral to my reading of deltarune. but the main one I mean to discuss here, and why I went off on this tangent about how audiences are dealt with in metafiction, is that we are posited as someone who believes in the logic of certain narratives.

deltarune's writing evokes a lot of portal fantasy narratives. alice in wonderland, narnia, pretty much every story where it's revealed at the end to be all a dream... the story of deltarune superficially resembles a lot of those. this, I think, is responsible for the popularity of the escapism theory. because those stories are often at their end about a child learning to put away fantasy and grow up, people tend to believe that deltarune must be about the same thing. but I truly don't think that deltarune is trying to do anything with that aspect of portal fantasy narratives, at least not directly. its main characters aren't involved in that exact type of coming-of-age arc.

instead, deltarune is very concerned with what happens to characters in fantasy, and specifically fantasy rpgs. if your world is deemed to not matter because it's a dream, what does that mean for you, who has no choice but to live in it? if you are an npc whose role has been predetermined for you via script, then can you ever decide for yourself what you want? what if you want to matter? what if you want to be your own person?

as the major controlling force of deltarune, we are initially cued to believe that deltarune is like a dream. it superficially fulfills so much of what we want from undertale fanon. hometown seems like it's a perfect idyllic town, at least until you start noticing the obvious cracks. and remember what I said about ralsei earlier? he is so reminiscent of asriel, and extremely eager to help us. it's not a stretch to say that making us specifically view deltarune as dreamlike and idyllic is probably part of his purpose in the game.

I would not say that we are posited as escapist. but the idea of escapism as brought up with queen and berdly is meant to strike at the heart of a much deeper idea that deltarune is trying to deconstruct. because if we view deltarune as a dream, escapist or otherwise, then we are inclined to write the internal realities of the characters inside off. the dark world can disappear without it mattering. we can control kris without it mattering. if it's all a dream, what does it matter? why should we care to let its characters go free? aren't we supposed to be in control?

if deltarune is an rpg... what is the significance of us interacting with it?

#deltarune #deltarune analysis #BIG big thanks to tvlandofficiall for being my sounding board and providing the flavor images for this essay #this one gets into some big overarching analysis of deltarunes construction and what it deconstructs. hope u enjoy

[stainedglassthreads]

I feel like the four leads of Deltarune--Kris, Susie, Ralsei, and Noelle-are just. Somehow two different levels of queer-coded.

(Edit: Just to be clear: not saying any of this to disparage or insult shippers of Kralsei, Suselle, or Kriselle, I've just seen a lot of cool analysis about tropes, romance, and lack of choice in Deltarune and wanted to chime in with some of my own thoughts. If you ship any of those ships in Deltarune--fantastic! May you find a lot of content precisely to your taste.)

Like. On the one hand, if you're looking at tropes, they are very neatly set up into two romantic partnerships. Noelle is very blatantly interested in Susie, and Ralsei's feelings for Kris are often portrayed similarly. On a surface level, both pairings appear very clear. Noelle is a girl in love with another girl, while Ralsei is a very effeminate boy in love with a teen who doesn't appear to use pronouns. And a big deal isn't made of either pairing, there's nothing really in the way of Suselle or Kralsei on a societal level we've encountered so far. At least in terms of gender and sexuality. But if you look a little closer, it's kind of...'these are a very straight idea of queer ships', y'know?

Noelle and Susie are both girls, but one is very effeminately coded, anxious, uses magic, and is more traditionally cute, while they other is crass, crude, intimidating, and physically strong. Ralsei and Kris are gender-noncomforming, but Ralsei is a sweet pacifistic healer who bakes cakes while Kris uses a sword, and keeps being mistaken for a boy by much of Youtube and Reddit. The active one and the passive one, the fighter and the mage, the one with cute hobbies and the one who eats moss, the one in pants and the one in a dress.

And here, I start thinking of some posts I've seen analyzing how, in Deltarune, romance is used to explore how Kris doesn't really get choices. Kris has been cast as the leader and knight, and Ralsei has been cast as the healer and Princess, even if he is a boy. The leader often ends up with the healer. The knight often gets the princess as a happy ending. But Kris doesn't seem to like this! Their reactions to Ralsei are constantly lukewarm at best, and that's not getting into how Ralsei seems to be in love with his idea of Kris, while being very. Asriel-coded, who the game describes often as Kris' brother, in sharp contrast to how ambiguous Chara and Frisk's relationships with the Dreemurrs were.

If we and Kris reject Ralsei as a love interest, we can a different romantic partner in Noelle...but this choice has a bodycount, traumatizes Noelle, doesn't seem to leave Kris any happier, and it's still a kind of straight-coded ship. Now it's the knight being paired up with the apocalypse maiden, for the doomed codepedent toxic tragedy lovers out there. But it kinda makes sense too, right? If Kralsei is the expected RPG romance, then Kriselle would be the expected romance if there were no Dark World and Ralsei weren't an option. They're childhood friends and neighbors in a small town, their families used to be very close, Rudy is still very fond of Kris. They're even extremely angel/devil coded.

But the most interesting part is. It's implied that there IS someone that Kris is very interested in, either platonically or romantically. It's Susie. Kris never seems frightened by Susie when they're bullied by her, and rejects Noelle's offers to switch seats. They seek comfort from Susie rather than Ralsei after the Spamton fight, they call her their friend when Toriel calls, they share moss with her, they refuse to think about her during Snowgrave when Ralsei prompts them, they make it clear that out of all the people they COULD go to the Carnival with, Susie is the one they'd ACTUALLY want to choose.

And this is the part that drives me crazy. Because while Kris is so tightly controlled by genre and narrative, and those things would usually push them towards Ralsei or Noelle, and Ralsei keeps encouraging Kris to stick to the narrative. Susie is the one who refuses to be bound to the narrative. Susie is the character of Deltarune who is most unapologetically herself--and isn't that a very queer thing, refusing to be anyone but yourself despite everything? She says no thanks to the prophecy, until she comes around to it on her own terms! She makes herself and Ralsei learn to take their own actions, and drags Ralsei off to have fun with him instead of letting Kris choose who to with! She doesn't stay in her box of the damage-dealing fighter, she insists on learning Healing magic, even if she's not particularly skilled at it at first! Even Ralsei is forced to admit that it's wonderful that Susie is Susie, and not anyone else!

I think Kris likes Susie a lot. And part of it may be admiration. That while Kris is controlled by the player and the narrative and the prophecy and humanity and divorce and a dozen things outside their control, Susie refuses to ever be bound by anything. And Kris and Susie together happen to be the two more masculinely-coded party members, the two melee fighters, the two troublemakers. It honestly makes me wonder a little if Susie and Kris might be able to make their own ending beyond the bounds of gender expectations and romance expectations together? It would be cool. And I think it would make Kris very happy to break free like that.

#deltarune #deltarune meta #deltarune analysis #deltarune theory #kris dreemurr #susie #noelle holiday #ralsei #kralsei #kriselle #krusie

[hazmatmaid]

I feel like people must’ve forgotten how objectively horrifying Spamton NEO is, like on a psychological level. Once he goes NEO, that’s the point of no return. The only way out of it for him is to basically die.

Not to mention Puppet Scarf’s flavor text:

Yes, Ralsei can no longer cast healing spells as effectively with it equipped, but think of the implication; that’s Spamton. By the time he goes NEO, he gave up on healing and making amends. By this point, he’d rather go out and kill everyone who wronged him (or he thinks they did) than seek forgiveness, or forgive them himself.

And in Snowgrave, he has no problem with letting (or even encouraging) someone commit mass murder if he can take advantage of the situation.

He may call you out on it, but by that point he’s mostly projecting his own self-hatred onto Kris.

But if we adhere more closely to the normal Ch2 route, it’s implied that he still had murderous intentions with NEO.

And even if you end the fight by sparing him and get the Dealmaker instead, it's already too late for him. He went NEO, and there's no other way it can end for him.

In other words, NEO spells his doom.

#deltarune #spamton #spamton deltarune #spamton g spamton #spamton neo #deltarune analysis #haz says a thing #i suppose i'm mostly reiterating what we should probably know already #but fried meme dinner i guess #my man is fucked up #and that’s why we love him #i feel like redemption/saving him is somewhat possible #but it would involve a whole chapter’s worth of alternate character development

[ariadnesweb]

Unabashedly love how Deltarune's main cast (Kris, Susie, Noelle, Ralsei) all seem to be based off types of horror monsters, combining very antagonistic/ off-putting personas with the average experience of being an awkward teenager.

There's Kris, the human, who's compared to a shambling corpse, a type of zombie lacking life for itself, bound to the most basic impulses for life, or perhaps a phantom knight, a ghost chasing after a otherwordly, personal liege to die for.

There's Susie, the bully, the gangster, the wild barbaric beast, the 'dark' one in the group, who played her role straight in chapter one, attacking anything in her path for daring to be weaker than her, and even once on the side of good, can't shake her doubts that she stands as a barely contained anti-hero compared to her friends.

Noelle, of course, is the witch & the ghost - both roles brought to the front throughout the course of the Weird Route. The Witch - she is the holder for some of the most destructive magic seen so far, a Knight capable of opening a Dark Fountain. And as the Ghost, Noelle is bound by history's tragedies to repeat them blindly, seeking a sense of closure for her family as it still cannot be found.

Ralsei, as he stands, seems to be some fae-type creature - a darkner that operates on a set of foreign, arbitrary rules - for whom friendship is paid with by acquiescence to said rules. How solid is his friendship? To who is loyalty owed to? We don't know. Neither does Ralsei - he's a shapeshifter, self variable and changing. If there is a price to pay, it will be paid dearly: Ralsei stands as the Prince of Darkners, and his CastleTown is both a hub for our friends, and the prison for our enemies.

There is something sweet about such a ragtag group of weirdoes finding community with each other, a chance to grow-up with friends and allies.

#deltarune #deltarune meta #meta #deltarune analysis #deltarune theory #soilai's labyrinth

[huecycles]

jevil & noelle friendship post

hi, i want to talk about how noelle and jevil would definitely get along well or even be friends! also how their characters contrast nicely with each other and could possibly have a dynamic as interesting and engaging as spamton does with kris. this is quite a long post, so yeah grab a seat lol. first off, take a look at noelle’s reaction to both of jevil’s items:

noelle likes horror movies, and jevil definitely fits that scary clown trope. the description for jevilstail is “a j-shaped tail that gives you devilenergy”, and it can be equipped on noelle. considering her comment, and how she compliments susie’s tail later, this could mean she thinks tails in general are cute (perhaps longer ones? susie is often headcanoned to have a lizard-esque tail while jevil has his j-shaped devil one. noelle has a deer tail which is pretty small lmao, kinda unrelated but i’m sure it could be for a silly reason like that, and in susie’s case, highlighted by her crush on her).

the fact noelle can equip jevilstail and say she likes an item that gives her “devilenergy” is very interesting too, and kinda goes along with what she said in the ferris wheel cutscene, how she wishes she could break the rules and be more like susie who isn’t afraid to do that. compare that to ralsei’s “i’m a good devil, ok?” and susie’s “figured i’d grow one someday” and you’ll see how noelle likes the idea of being “devilish” but is pretty shy about it as she mutters it.

now let’s talk about devilsknife. devilsknife is a susie weapon, it is pretty powerful and the name itself is already scary sounding. of course, noelle can’t equip it since her weapon type is supposed to be rings, but she doesn’t seem that scared when presented with the item, unlike ralsei who says it feels “too evil”. this is what she has to say:

devilsknife, as in jevil, smiles at her. now, how could she be seeing that? most people interpret this smile as the blade deforming itself to resemble jevil’s face, or his own smile being reflected in the blade. however, there’s a detail a lot of people have missed (as well as this little moment altogether which is one of few the indicators of jevil’s actual and current presence in chapter 2).

this is devilsknife’s description:

there’s a skull symbol emblazoned in the blade (which is a hybrid between a scythe and an ax, aka what lets susie equip it due to her weapons all being axes). 

now, according to my own headcanons due to certain wording jevil uses in his fight, like “EVEN DEVILSKNIFE IS SMILING!” and “LET’S MAKE THE DEVILSKNIFE.”, plus how tasque manager has the exact same reaction to both of jevil’s items, meaning she knows it’s him/knows of his presence there - contradicting the common idea that jevil is not the jevilstail and thus not in the inventory due to his wording in chapter 1 - but still regarding the devilsknife with some strange familiarity which could imply she knows it is a weapon and has possibly not only met jevil but fought him before: “silly tail” vs “silly Devilsknife”, capitalized...

...make me believe devilsknife and jevil are not one in the same, and are only “fused” (metamorphosis?) in the inventory. while i know certain details are hard to portray in a tiny sprite, you can see there’s no skull symbol anywhere in the devilsknife’s blade which has more empty space, and given how it’s “emblazoned” it would mean it’s a printed/engraved symbol somewhere.

so my small tangent here is that the skull only appears once jevil and devilsknife are fused together and in your inventory. considering how scythes are often seen as a grim reaper's weapon and associated with death, having jevil become the actual devilsknife and clearly maintain his conscience would nicely translate into a skull symbol appearing. the “THIS BODY CANNOT BE KILLED!” line also gives this some more depth. given how jevil’s "mind" is chained to his "body", as he gives a lot of emphasis to his body (”THEY CRAVED TO IMPRISON MY BODY”) and the association of how his mind is “free” while his body stays locked up paints a grim picture on how he was deemed insane, yet found a loophole in that, and thus “freedom”.

scythes are also famous for beheadings. jevil has no neck, his head separated from his body. and bringing all that back to noelle, THIS is how he smiles at her. pretty morbid, right? cool as fuck too :o)

of course, these are noelle’s only direct interactions with jevil through his items, but i’d also like to bring attention to how her themes and symbolism go along so well with jevil’s, just like spamton’s go with kris’s.

kris is often likened to demonic imagery, aka their creepy red eyes, the use of the horns headband, how they have an interest in summoning demons due to their search history, and finally: king calling them "lightbringer" which is just what “lucifer” means in latin + that word itself is generally associated with lucifer, satan, what have you. noelle has obvious ties with angels: being called one by both spamton and pink addison while on a snowgrave route, her comment about growing big angel wings in the ferris wheel cutscene, the angel doll her and dess made which rudy keeps around as a good luck charm, and so on. spamton and jevil, respectively, are the opposites in that regard when compared to kris and noelle, so the contrast here is really damn fun to think about and explore.

another thing is how both noelle and jevil are incredibly powerful and involved in violent acts (though you know how snowgrave goes, of course), and how kris and spamton are in a very similar predicament as puppets who try to fight back. i believe just like how spamton and kris both managed to relate to each other’s despair and tried to help each other out (albeit in a very warped way in spamton’s case), i think noelle and jevil would have a similar thing.

lemme talk about something interesting in the snowgrave route. there is a pattern going on with noelle that is slightly overlooked, which is this:

1) a order is given by the player through kris, often “proceed”. 2) the screen goes black, the iceshock sound is heard. 3) noelle is completely confused about what just happened.

in the weird route, there are several times where noelle zones out, and while the moment people focus on is when she’s using snowgrave on berdly, the iceshock on the puzzles + the pink addison to get the freeze ring are very important. she comments later on how the battles are blurring together and how she cant remember a lot of details, she just followed "kris's" command and acted accordingly. a similar thing might have happened when she iceshocked spamton neo too, as the screen goes black again.

considering how she says “there was so much snow, i couldn’t see anything” after berdly is in the ice, i believe whenever she uses her power while aided by the player (and later, her own, as seen in the last puzzle where she does it by herself, leading to when she encounters berdly where she was just about to freeze him, completely on “automatic mode”, seemingly just waiting for the actual order) her mind goes blank, and she just acts as instructed. noelle might even look like this while the screen is black, which is a bit haunting to me:

going back to jevil, and knowing how prone to violence/chaos he is, i believe he would be able to sense her affinity for power and maybe even help her control it, likely for his own gain as he is hypocritical (strips the player of choice once you arrive with the key and refuse to open his cell), though similarly to spamton and kris, jevil could feel some kind of connection with noelle’s power and how dangerous it can be.

i believe jevil could help noelle get a hold of herself when using her magic and not just follow someone else’s commands, as well as keeping a clear head through it all. he’s pretty damn powerful himself, so he would instead help her come up with her own strategies and willpower, even if his teachings might fall flat due to his own insistence on having her cause chaos. i believe that can overruled by noelle's kindness and gentleness, and due to jevil's own influence on her (to be more bold and assertive, as she expresses she wishes she could be more like susie and break the rules like i said before), whatever "plan" he may have on turning her into this powerful killing machine backfires simply because she says no to him. lol his own strong personality boosts her shy and scared one so that itself is his own failure, i think that’s hilarious and a great character study for the both of them!

i headcanon jevil calls her "headlights" as a reference to how she's easily scared + a cruel nod to the “deer in the headlights” thing, which fits with his character who has probably a morbid sense of humor. noelle would definitely be intimidated by him at first, but i think she’d warm up to him due to her own interests in “scary” people, firstly her crush on susie and secondly her strange friend jevil who looks like a killer clown in the flesh. an easygoing, kind kid in jevil's life would also brighten it up :) he could definitely use a gentle presence in my opinion, i mean. guy’s said to be a loner, even if he had seam.

long post, but yeah! i know the susie and jevil connection is easier to make because of their brief interaction, devilsknife etc, but i feel like noelle and jevil being friends is very unique and more interesting to me personally. if kris has their scammer puppet uncle, noelle has the silly, slightly intimidating clown (also uncle coded) who helps pick out her fits for halloween and do her makeup. she also gets to wear out five hairbrushes on the wavy mess that’s under his hat, then braids his hair during the afternoon and shows him different hairdos, choosing the one jevil’s eyes dilated at. kris takes a picture of him looking handsome under noelle’s care and hits ‘send’ saying “ey uncle spamgton check out ur lover boy” while spamton tells them to “del3te THIS”.

it’s nice it’s cool!! let jevil and noelle be friends!!

#jevil #noelle holiday #kris dreemurr #spamton #tasque manager #susie deltarune #berdly #all characters that were mentioned a lot will be tagged lol #devilsknife #yes even you #weird route #deltarune #snowgrave #deltarune chapter 2 #deltarune analysis #deltarune meta #i guess? #idk how to use these tags #txt

[deargodhelpmeaaa]

Evidence that Krerdly will/could in fact become canon

So usually when I ship something Im like yea this is not going to be in the actual thing but I always see other people all like "PLEASE LET THIS BE IN THE ACTUAL THING" and I genuinely can't tell if they're joking or not like do we actually care that much are we stupid do we need mental help

Anyway here's my evidence as to why it will (could) be(come) canon because fuck you.

Berdly saying he has a crush on Susie is extremely unreliable, as he just kind of randomly decides he has one out of the blue and it's obvious she doesn't like him back and he's stupid very smart and terrible great at reading the room and therefore thinks she does anyway.

the following dialogue is after the queen battle:

(some trivia: dextrose refers to a type of sugar, I think our little boy was trying to sound clever with a big word and didn't use it right, or he meant to say "dexterous" which he would ALSO be using wrong btw, as it means "clever" and right now he wants to be stupid which makes him calling them clever out of character. )

There's his first lot of dialogue. Then interact with him again and he says this shit

His reasoning?

There's a lot to unpack here.

Berdly tells Kris he must turn them down because he thinks he likes Susie and is under the assumption that she likes him back. Nowhere is it implied that he is not actually interested in Kris; it is only indicated that right at this moment Berdly's sights are set on Susie because there are things about her that he really admires, and so his interest is set on her. Notice how he refers to his life as a VN. That means visual novel. He sees himself as a man amongst a variety of love interests, and believes he can only choose one, as is the case with a typical visual novel, which indicates that Berdly thinks he is monogamous (I say "thinks" due to the popular theory that he might not truly desire romance at all and just claims to since that is what he currently equates any form of intimacy to). Among the people he has marked as love interests are Susie and Kris, and so therefore he is not necessarily uninterested in Kris. He sees them as a potential match, but they are not the one he's focused on.

He says Kris is being insistent about something. While this could be him misinterpreting them showing concern for him for romantic affection, as he does have this weird fixation on romance, this line of dialogue is actually really weird for a variety of reasons if we really look at it.

He says that Kris is being "insistent" on something, and that he "must turn them down." While it is easy to assume interacting with him caused Berdly to think that showing him additional concern by talking to him means you like him romantically, you must also consider the fact that throughout the game Kris is implied to say things on their own, but we ourselves never actually get to see what they are saying. Take for example here:

I'm certain this is the case with non cutscene moments, too, where you interact with NPCs and stuff. I can only really think off the top of my head to how even when u interact with one of the swords in ur inventory Noelle tells you to stop hitting you with it, and also there are times where Kris is moving on their own despite the soul not having wandered off like in the offscreen Ralsei dialogues, plus there's Kris removing their soul sometimes which always follows us controlling them... essentially they DO still have some control over themselves even when we are controlling THEM and they can still talk on their own, which I don't see how that doesn't include interacting with NPCs outside of battle or cutscenes. I just am too lazy to open the game up again and scour it for more NPC's responding to something we didn't hear Kris say, so instead I gave you an elaborate explanation of how Kris works and it works just as well so fuck you. But feel free to look for examples of NPC's outside of battle or cutscenes responding to something Kris probably said anyway and rb this with your findings that would be great.

Back to Berdly turning Kris down. Both of Berdly's dialogues are in response to something. This second line in particular looks really suspect, and makes me believe Kris may have actually done something overt in order to cause Berdly's focus to shift towards romance, and the reason Ralsei never says anything about it is so we don't notice that our character acted on their own- as he is definitely judging them for saying that LOL. I just don't see how it makes sense for him to just say that unprompted (granted, he is a weirdo, but in a cute innocent sort of way, and not the perverted incel freak some fans make him out to be but); it just feels to overtly a reply to something said to him than it does to him SIMPLY being interacted with.

Counterargument for this second point now: it's very possible that when we interact with Berdly, Kris did something to just comfort him, like put their hand on his shoulder or something like that, and them doing it more than once causes Berdly to mistaken the gesture for a romantic advance, and I was just over analyzing it because I ship them and I relate to Berdly which means I'm a nerdy idiot genius just like him. This still does not negate point number one, though.

3. Berdly is not disgusted by the prospect of romance with Kris. His reasoning for turning them down is because he's focused on Susie; nowhere is it said that it is due to their gender or appearance or anything like that at all. I assumed he was doing some hetero-normative thing with how Noelle and Susie are both girls and he's a boy but Kris lacking a gender and him not being like "eww no" to them indicates to me that he wouldn't necessarily mind something queer going on.

I want to look at the visual novel thing some more because I've honest to god never seen anyone else talk about it.

I think that he sees Kris, Susie and Noelle as potential partners. He's not interested in Noelle himself and says that he only pretends to be because he thinks she is. It's obvious he thinks that if he were to not, she might leave him, as this romantic interest he thinks she has in him is what he believes is the reason why she even tolerates him in the first place. Were she to ask him out (she wouldn't; this is from his perspective), Berdly undoubtedly would say yes, even if it isn't really what he wants, because what he really wants is to keep her around since he literally relies on her for his studies. He confesses to not liking her in chapter 2 because he wants her to know that his sights are set on Susie and doesn't want that to break her heart.

Susie is a new one, as he suddenly finds himself admiring her and confuses this admiration for her for romantic affection. He is undoubtedly going to continue trying to pursue her until he is inevitably not only shut down but learns about her and Noelle.

Lastly, there's Kris, who, besides Noelle, is one of Berdly's only friends. While he is their rival, he does show a lot of affection for them throughout the game, even back in chapter 1. In the library he tells Kris that he was worried about them.

He also offers them a random discount on the overdue book just really randomly, which is so sweet of him honestly. There is a layer of pretentiousness, smugness, and condescending-ness throughout his dialogue in the library, which is just him trying to prove himself better than Kris.

It is implied/shown that he sees a lot of potential in them. He refers to Kris as the third smartest student in class, which, despite seeming like an insult at first, is still a bit of a compliment in its own way. Talking down to Kris is sort of a defense mechanism for him. I think this is displayed really well in the scene below:

He does, however, really care about Kris at the end of the day and it's clear he values them. I really want to bring up the scene where you give him the present. First, he doesn't even EXPECT you to be gifting him, and walks into the scene assuming you're not on his side, taking it personally when he sees you with Susie. Then, when you do give him the present, he's initially shocked, then genuinely really happy and appreciative of it, to the point that he kind of almost drops the snarky attitude. I also really want to note that he doesn't even say thank you. Like he doesn't even know how to react. Poor guy.

Throughout chapter 2, we see that the two of them have played video games together, that Berdly trusts Kris enough to want to do puzzles with them while he's struggling to do them alone in the mansion, and so yeah, it can be concluded that despite Berdly's attempts to push Kris away and prove himself as their superior, he does genuinely care about them a lot.

So, Krerdly.

Krerdly.

The only thing getting in the way right now is that Berdly is focused on Susie. Though he might think what happened was a dream in the pacifist route, he probably is going to be fixated on her both there and in the neutral route due to now assuming he has a crush on her and her liking him back; he doesn't realize that he's mistaking his admiration for and desire to get closer to her for a crush. What will kill this for him is when he finally gets to see her with Noelle and realizes neither of them liked him romantically. He'd probably then turn to Kris and ask them if they liked him, since they're the one other person on that list of love interests I just did. And regardless of whether or not you say yes, he'd still be left thinking about them a little bit, and start to seek intimacy with them since Susie and Noelle are now fixated on eachother, and Berdly thinks he needs romance so he's looking towards someone who could potentially bring him that as well: his close friend who is still single.

And then you can date him and yay Krerdly real.

That's my theory.

Goodnight.

#krerdly #kris deltarune #kris dreemur #kris dreemurr #berdly #analysis #deltarune #deltarune analysis #deltarune chapter 1 #deltarune chapter 2 #susie deltarune #krispy chicken #suselle #noelle holiday #ralsei #theory #speculation #shipping #Youtube

[megaderping]

Gerson Boom is one of the coolest characters in Undertale, despite playing a 'minor' role as a shopkeeper. From his design to his personality to his role in the game's backstory and his guts in the No Mercy run, there's a lot to love about this old timer, and in this video, I break down his character in all three routes as well as explore his lasting legacy on the world of Deltarune.

As a side note, the Undertale Yellow video had to be unlisted due to an audio error I overlooked. I will be reuploading it soon, potentially with added voices for the characters. We shall see!

#undertale #deltarune #gerson #gerson boom #undertale analysis #undertale meta #deltarune analysis #deltarune meta #utdr #video essay #character analysis #Youtube

[zorubark]

To me, I feel like the weird route has an aspect to it of the horror of cisheteronormativity.

Many players or deltarune fans project a male identity onto kris, while they are non-binary, the cisnormative, and then along with this pairing them with the most girl obssesed girl, the heteronormativity. It's like it represents the horror of having no free will combined with how most stories are cisheteronormative, many times watching, reading, etc, a story that has queer elements but the characters are forced to stay cis, to "accept" traditional gender roles, to be straight, it feels like the author is forcing the characters, just like the Weird Route, I think it's a meta commentary on the fandom and media in general.

#deltarune #snowgrave #weird route #deltarune spoilers #kris deltarune #utdr #kriselle #kris #kris dreemurr #toby fox #deltarune analysis #noelle holiday #noelle deltarune #deltarune noelle

[alpacacare-archive]

Not to post knight papyrus on main or anything but

#huh #deltarune #papyrus #undertale #knight papyrus #please dont come for me i saw people getting VIOLENT over knight papyrus i want no part of that #i just think this is neat #i dont like theorizing and dying on theory hills (if you don't count dadster? id kill for that guy) but i do like the idea of #papyrus playing a larger role in this story #because his character fits the narrative and i also love him. a lot. #but please dont like. start fights in the notes. ill call your parents if you dont behave #its not that deep #anyway #when i played chapter 2 for the first time and saw this line i immediately thought GASTER cus pea brain and also one of his motifs #is the word interesting #but honestly i like this possibility much more #deltarune analysis #?

[hollyrogerbay]

anyone else notice how Deltarune seems to be getting more advanced each chapter, diegetically?

chapter 2 introduces the Recruits system, and updates save points to show all 3 slots in-game. chapter 1 was not retroactively updated to include the feature - it's an in-universe change. (although i believe chapter 1 npcs are automatically recruited once the system is introduced.)

and is it just me, or does it almost sound like the soundtrack is getting more advanced, too?

chapter 1's soundtrack was almost all soundfonts, chiptune, more retro synths, etc. - and the same goes for chapter 2, mostly. (mostly except for Susie, notably. her and her maybe-synth, maybe-live distorted guitars.)

we don't have much to work with, so this may not be anything worth mentioning, but the three songs for chapter 3-5 we've gotten sound noticeably more "real," i'd say?

"Hometown Day" is definitely the least notable of the three in terms of this, but still sounds relatively "realistic"/live

"My Funky Town" was what gave me this thought in the first place. the more live-sounding guitar in the left ear, something about the drums i can't quite describe accurately, the electric piano being played/recorded live. of course, it's not entirely "live" sounding, notably the saxophone being straight from the Touhou soundfont. but still much more than anything in chapter 1 and most in chapter 2.

"Green Room" is an odd case in general, considering it's pretty much just a remix of "Hip Shop," unlike any other song i can recall. but, yet again, it does sound a lot less "digital," would you agree? more effects on pretty much everything, the spacey drums and electirc pianos, everything.

this may not go anywhere, but i figured it was worth noting. the idea of chapters becoming more and more advanced as each one is added could also definitely be theory-crafting material methinks

#my truth #deltarune #utdr #deltarune analysis #deltarune speculation #deltarune theory #<- not really a theory but could turn into one #deltarune chapter 1 #deltarune chapter 2 #deltarune chapter 3 #deltarune chapter 4 #deltarune chapter 5 #deltarune ost #deltarune soundtrack

[nonbinarycollector]

it makes me insane how noelle has been unsure for so long on if she and kris are even friends. theyve known each other since childhood, theyve played and hung out and they go to her house and and they GREW UP TOGETHER, NEIGHBOR FRIENDS!!! yet kris has always been so... distant. sure, maybe they know each other better than anyone else, but its not like they say that. any affection they have for each other isnt said the difference is noelle is friendlier and reaches out because she knows how to. she can give them pencils and help with homework and be weird, herself, around them, but kris isnt good at that kind of thing. they dont know how to put these things into words and they feel embarrassed trying to show it, and either they dont realize how it comes across or they do but dont know how to fix it, dont have the energy in recent years kris cares a lot about people! from choking up on hot chocolate to trying desperately not to have noelle involved anymore in snowgrave. they protect susie they want to hug the ralsei mannequin they feel a lot of affection toward others in their life but it is QUIET or only base protection comes out in dangerous moments. and it is so interesting to me, their emotional distance, how they either cant or havent tried to get their love across. i love kris dearly. they are so bad at this. it makes their friends and loved ones unsure in their relationships with kris and it drives me insane

#kris dreemurr #noelle holiday #deltarune analysis #deltarune #text #AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA #note about the ralsei mannequin thing im talkin bout chapter two! not the tutorial fight #if you inspect it before gathering stuff from the classroom dark world #youre given the option to hug it... :')

[ursynes]

Gaster is a cat confirmed (kinda)

Ok, so I'll go ahead and come out as a massive Gaster stannie. (My beloved. He barely exists in-universe, but he is so real to me. Pets him on his bald head)

Anyway, there's a small passage in the Valentine's newsletter that caught my eye:

Putting aside interchangeable faces - this is a reference to Alice in Wonderland. Specifically to how Alice plays with verbiage. The notion that words, indeed, mean anything is constantly toyed with (and discarded) in the book.

We're now given this image of Gaster as someone for whom reality is so warped, that words (and perhaps the objects they signify as well) lose concrete shape. It ties in neatly with his use of a font where every letter is a symbol upon itself. The guy sure has a strained relationship with language. (Relatable.)

Of course, this isn't the only Alice reference we have:

So the "friend" is an obvious nod to the Cheshire Cat. This character is known for vanishing, leaving behind only its grin, and being cryptic. Vanishing and cryptic? Sounds familiar.

We have known for a while that the "cat" element exists in DR:

The other elemental pairs - Thunder/Light, Dark/Star - have a throughline of meaning that ties them together. They are things that co-occur with one another. Where there's thunder, there must have been light(ning). Stars can only be seen in the dark. So what's the deal with Puppet/Cat?...

Let's assume "cat" stands for Cheshire Cat-like qualities. Ephemeral, inscrutable, with a tinge of eerie omniscience. Why is it paired with "puppet"? A puppet is something that is, well, puppeteered. It is something immutably material, with no agency of its own. Quite the opposite of "ephemeral and omniscient"!.. Except when you realize that in DR, transcending what you know of reality will inevitably lead to the conclusion that you are...

One is intrinsically tied to another!

The characters in DR who seem to have the most forbidden knowledge have a relation to puppets and/or cats:

(Assuming that Jevil has some jack-in-the-box in him.)

These folks also have ties to Gaster and his juicy knowledge. It is not too far-fetched to assume Gaster himself has Puppet/Cat vibes. In fact, I think that he is the Cheshire Cat of Deltarune. Perhaps he doesn't mind his condition as much as we think!

TL;DR when Gaster is revealed as a catboy, the fandom will implode. Consider this your warning.

#deltarune #deltarune theory #deltarune analysis #deltarune newsletter #gaster #ursynes analysis

[stainedglassthreads]

Realization. I’ve noticed before that Asriel and Ralsei’s demeanors and impacts seem almost inverse of each other: even when Asriel’s been gone for months, Hometown can’t stop talking about how much they miss him, and how each resident had some unique and memorable bond with him, while a lot of Darkners, and even Noelle and Berdly, just don’t even register that Ralsei is there.

But it’s not just their confidence, affability, and memorability that’s reversed. It’s how memorable they are compared to Kris.

In Hometown, Kris isn’t exactly neglected, but they do seem to come second or have difficulties in a lot of ways. There was everyone in class partnering up before they arrived in Chapter 1, Snowdrake and MK talking behind their back in Chapter 2, Berdly calling Kris the third-smartest person in the class, Noelle and Kris being friends but drifting apart, the way everyone in Hometown won’t stop reminiscing about Asriel when talking to Kris, talking about their personal bonds with Asriel, or what Kris and Asriel used to do.

But in the Dark World, that’s completely reversed. No longer is it Kris standing in Asriel’s shadow, now it’s Ralsei standing in Kris’ shadow. Now everyone focuses on and addresses Kris, while ignoring and forgetting Ralsei, or treating him as a tag-along.

I’m wondering if this is meant to symbolize something. Or if it does, I’m wondering what, exactly, it does. Is Ralsei reflective of Kris themself, as some believe? Is Ralsei a reflection of how Kris sees themself, always content to support the cooler and more likeable Asriel, always awkward and blending into the background? Does their theorized discomfort with Ralsei imply self-loathing? Or do they want to be the cooler and more likeable sibling instead of Asriel, and have him be the supportive tagalong for a change? Is Ralsei created by their desire to be someone’s ‘number 1’ instead of being everyone’s ‘number 2’?

Either way, I hope it gets explored and explained in future chapters. Especially if Asriel comes home before the final chapter. I want to see Ralsei develop more into his own person, but I’d also love to see Kris and Ralsei’s interactions prompt Kris to have a serious talk with Asriel if he comes home.

#utdr #deltarune #deltarune meta #deltarune analysis #ralsei #kris #kris dreemurr

[sea-salt-sky]

Deltarune and Party members

(hi this is my first post ever)

So I was re-watching Andrew Cunningham's comment response stream to his video on Kris's SOUL, and he said something about Noelle during the Weird Route that caught my attention.

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxH4y3Jasb0PXrPCIRRccfB5VuC6JKIwnE

"It's sorta getting at like, rpg party members and how they don't necessarily make sense within the diegesis, like you can order them around, but how much free will do they have? it's lampshading that, by having you make Noelle do things she'd never do, and it… breaks her consciousness."

Got me thinking, we have Kris here as a metacommentary on what it's like to be a protagonist, but do the other 3 main characters exist as commentary on the idea of "party members"?

We have Ralsei, who just does what you say no matter what. He keeps saying this is a world where you don't have to fight, and calls out Susie for unnecessary violence, yet he won't complain when you tell him to fight. He's even surprised by the idea of you thinking of him as more than a lacky

"*H-huh? Y-you mean...

*(Y-you think of me as more than a lackey...?)"

In other words, this guy is like a Skyrim follower or something, being willing to just murder for no reason other than you said pretty please.

And then there's Susie, who rejects the idea of it being your party entirely in Chapter 1, and refuses to obey anything you say. She's the opposite of Ralsei in that regard.

And then there's Noelle, who only goes through with Snowgrave through manipulating her into thinking that she has to keep getting stronger, because Kris is her friend. And she doesn't think that her friend would ever lead her astray, or something like that.

Thoughts?

#deltarune theory #deltarune analysis #deltarune #deltarune chapter 2 #deltarune chapter one #deltarune chapter two #andrew cunningham #noelle holiday #susie #ralsei #weird route #deltarune weird route #deltarune snowgrave #snowgrave

[movedtodykedvonte]

The fact that Jevil is a jester but has an active refusal to make others laugh and simply lives for his own merriment and amusement compared to the fact Spamton canonically hates clowns and jesters yet has a burning desire to be loved and adored with/through the express purpose of catering to others.

#yeah im thinking about how their very existences parody and contradict each other and how they kiss about it #what of it #this isn't even really spamvil just something I noticed #i love contrasting people who #hate each other but thematically are one in the same #utdr #spamton #jevil #spamton g spamton #deltarune #undertale #deltarune analysis

[nukedimplosion]

Why I believe Spade King will be redeemed

The Spade King is a... controversial character to say the least. From what I've seen, opinions of him range from a complete monster to an abusive douche with little leeway.

So, making a post about how this villain will be redeemed in future chapters may seem like a slap in the face. Let it be known that none of this is to upset real survivors of abuse, but instead it is to highlight the many indicators I feel show that Spade King is not beyond redemption.

I personally have had this theory since around when chapter 2 came out, and time has only solidified it, but this is the first time I actually got the confidence to post it.

That being said, let's get into the evidence.

THE FOUNTAIN

In the 6th anniversary stream for Undertale, Fangamer played through an edited version of Deltarune with Toby Fox making comments about development, the characters etc.

When facing the Spade King, Fangamer talked about how they hoped Spade King had been a good dad 'before the other mouth grew in'.

Toby Fox then says this;

'I mean, I think that fountain definitely changed his behaviour. For sure.'

This quote is stated around the 3 hour mark of the livestream video below.

So what does this mean? You may want to argue that Toby was not be literal when he made this statement, and that the fountain was a simple temptation instead of something that directly effected his behaviour. But then there's the queen...

The queen seems to have also experienced this fountain brought phenomena despite only wanting to use it to serve the Lightners instead of oppose.

She threatens and attempts to kill the Lightners. She establishes a regime significantly more strict then the last. She won't stop going on about the Knight. These are all things the King does as well.

It seems that the fountain abstracts the behaviour of their respective rulers for the sake of the Knight.

Okay, so the fountain impacts the King's behaviour, great. Doesn't change the fact that he threatened his son, and refuses to apologise or acknowledge his wrong doing now the fountain is closed.

Well, that leads me onto the next part...

HIS SON

Let's immediately establish one thing; the Chaos King does care for his son. While how genuine that care is is debated by the fandom, I would like to make the case that he was a good dad and does want Lancer to be happy.

First of all is the quote about the fountain that Toby made in the anniversary stream, which was a reply to a comment about how Fangamer hoped that he was a good dad.

Replying then seems to indicate that the fountain did impact his ability to be a good father.

More importantly is his dialogue in jail.

Here, he asked directly if his son is happy, in hesitant, even reserved manner. This is in direct contrast to how he mocks the Lightners with his boisterous grin or cruel frown.

Remember when he was yelling that he'll 'KILL ALL OF YOU' while his subjects dragged him away? An insurrection led by his son, who he called a traitor? Despite this, he seems to hold no ill will towards his son or his fellow darkners (we'll get to that). This behaviour I believe was caused by the fountain, thus the attitude change.

And yes, I do acknowledge that he has lied for sympathy before (his act before Ralsei healed him in chapter 1), but this is different. There is no reason to lie at this point; there's no way they would believe him.

He also admits that if he HAD let his son go, Lancer would have just... bounced. He then calls his son a bouncy little pumpkin. This line is notably similar to a line right after Susie casts pacify on him, calling her a 'sweet little pumpkin', again hinting that he was a good dad before the fountain and his love towards Lancer isn't a lie.

'But' you may argue, 'Lancer was afraid! He knew his son was scared of him but kept threatening anyways!'

Which is a valid point, and is obviously horrible.

BUT combined with the fountain being an impact for his decisions, I think it is also a valid idea that there's more to it than 'The Spade King is abusive'.

Both the Queen and King are callous when it comes to the opinion and wellbeing of others. Queen spends the entirety of Chapter 2 attempting to force Noelle to do as she says, even threatening to kill her classmates (and crush) for the sake of her goal.

What King does is similar, making Lancer watch as his friends get killed because he didn't do as he said. It's cruel, yes, but this is another case where you can argue the fountain may have led to this mutual behaviour.

(You may argue that the Queen has the excuse of being a computer who isn't completely in tune with peoples emotions. This argument doesn't really make sense because she actively uses Noelle's emotions against her in a way that shows she understands how upset it makes her.)

I do believe that Spade King knew his son was upset and still went along with it. This post isn't some elongated argument for Spade King's sainthood.

But I do have to say, him being aware and still going along with it may explain why he's hesitant to talk about Lancer in his jail cell. He knows he messed up and is feeling guilty post-fountain, he's just too prideful to up and say it to the face of the enemy. What he did is not a show of Spade King's abusive inhernet nature but an example of the fountain clouding his full judgement at that moment.

Also, you may argue that Spade King was neglectful of his son, leaving him to Rouxls Kaard to be cared for. I do believe that there has been a bit of exaggeration on this point. Yes, he does put his son in the care of his employees perhaps more than he should, but he's also straight up a King. He's a busy guy.

'Oh, but he doesn't feed him, the poor boy is starving!'

Honestly, my big question is why he's cooking in the first place. He's a King, he has subjects literally fanning his son and he can't afford one chef? It seems like this is more a downtime thing he does with his son for the sake of family bonding (may explain where the food based nickname of 'sweet little pumpkin' came from) and he knows his son will be fed by his employees when he's busy.

Again, too dependent, but I don't see any signs of such an intense neglect to call him a bad dad.

Of course, this is more in the assumption category. It is possible the neglect is more active and that the King is just a douche, but I feel that we are being purposely mislead here.

Now, onto the final point.

HIS SUBJECTS

Let's talk about why Spade King did what he did.

Spade King hates Lightners, that much is obvious. He calls them scum, says that 'their existence goes against our own' and feels absolutely no guilt towards trying to kill them post-fountain.

Which isn't really not justified. Darkners were made to keep Lightners happy, only to be abandoned by them. The Chaos King has to watch as the kingdom, HIS kingdom, rotted without meaning. He had to raise his son with the understanding that he would never be 'truely happy' because the so called only source of happiness for Darkners left them to the wayside.

So, when the Knight came, is it really that surprising he would try to create a 'new purpose' as he said? Yes, perhaps world domination is a bit insane (maybe he's dramatic like that, maybe it was the fountain, he does hate Lightners so it's likely both) but the core of his ideals, that darkners can be something beyond what they are to Lightners is not only justified but correct.

In the scene where the gang are walking to the castle in Chapter 1, Lancer acknowledges how happy he is to be here, feeling like he's doing 'something important'. Ralsei replies that this is because he is serving the Lightners and that is the purpose of the Darkners.

Susie is notably uncomfortable, and dismisses Ralsei's point as 'weird purpose' talk and simply says that Lancer is just happy because he ate a weird berry. This is the first sign that the plot beat of Darkners only gaining happiness from Lightners is not just going to be an accepted status quo by the main cast and that there is likely to be more contention about the subject in the future.

(I would also like to mention that Ralsei in this scene asks if the Spade King is happy, in which Lancer very hesitantly says he's not sure.)

Then, in chapter 2, Ralsei is shown to be confused about friendship. He starts to understand that friendship is more than just being nice all the time and that he should be more 'Ralsei-like', meaning more like himself.

The problem is that he doesn't know what that is. He's spent all this time forming himself into the perfect companion but he doesn't know how to be himself. This is a result of his purpose, his wish to be the perfect Darkner for his friends. Now, his purpose seems more cloudy. Should he continue being the perfect little angel for his friends or should he become someone who is more genuine on their own terms, like what his friends seem to want?

While Ralsei is still doing everything he can for the Lighteners, he is slowly becoming his own individual, which is what the King wanted for all Darkners.

Then there's the general themes of control. Be it Kris, the secret bosses or the Spade King, all of these people wish to be more than the binds that control them. While the Spade King is acting on behalf of the Knight, he does so to free his people from the influence of the Lightners, to make purpose on their own terms and be their own people.

Just like how Kris wishes to be free from, you, the player, also making their own purpose and be their own person. May I remind you that the Darkners are media and toys, fun things meant to be enjoyed. They are in universe equivalents of video game characters, made to entertain Lightners, just like Kris, Ralsei and Susie are made to entertain us. The only difference is that the latter is closer to the forth wall.

So yes, while his world domination thing was wack, I believe the Spade King is righteous in his core values.

So why doesn't any other character seem to agree?

Ralsei completely believes that Darkners can only gain happiness from Lightners, Queen does everything she does for the sake of Lightners, hell, the town that the Darkners live in isn't named after the Prince or anything but you, a Lightner. They even call you boss!

At this point, the only character who cares for Darkners having a purpose outside of Lightners is locked in a jail cell.

Now, it is possible that Toby Fox introduces another character who has Spade King's beliefs but is less nasty about it, but that's lame. It's also possible that Ralsei has an epiphany and realise that Darkners deserve better and that becomes the result of his arc. Better, and I can see him going in that direction, but I still think it's less satisfactory.

In any route in which you don't get all recruits, the King is the only person who acknowledges this and is actively upset about it. Even the Queen is hesitant yet still ultimately okay with leaving her subjects behind because the Lightners are onboard.

The goofy cutscene where he asks for cashews? Gone. He simply remarks on how you left them behind like Lightners left the Card Kingdom darkners behind and tells you to 'Begone'. The first line is said with a smile, knowing that he's been proven right but after that, the smile leaves and he's just... cold. He seems genuinely upset about what happened to the Darkners you left behind, portrayed with a '...' in his second line and the loss of his smile. He is not trying to trick you, you simply disgust him at this point. He cares for Darkners in a way that no character has shown yet (aside from Nubert (the goat))

This is why the title of this post is why Spade King is GOING to be redeemed and not me saying he SHOULD be. The difference in levity between an interaction with the Spade King post full recruits and not full recruits indicates that by getting recruits, the King is more willing to acknowledge you and, perhaps with time, your points and intentions. If Spade King was supposed to be this abusive bastard, having characters such as the Queen be on positive terms with him seems strange. You can argue nuance all you want, but the Queen, a character who we're supposed to like, being friends with a character we're supposed to end up hating seems like a strange writing decision no matter how you slice it. Especially if he's a straight up child abuser.

(yes I know she might not know but are you really expecting an epic drama where Queen finds out he's an abusive scumbag and calls him out? Having a morally positive character be friends with an abuser can work but in this situation, it is objectively a weird choice and I will argue on that)

He asks for cashews in this chapter and suckles out a giant hamster water container. Maybe the second serves to make him look pathetic, but then the Queen apparently has the same thing but bigger. The cashew bit is played off as endearing more then anything.

This is all because you got those recruits. Without them, he doesn't even talk to you. Therefore, it can be concluded that Spade King does have a chance. After all, if all of him was completely against you and believed you would be bound to abandon them, he would not be talking to you in any route. It's only when you prove it directly that he stops.

Toby Fox uses the recruit dialogue to endear you to him, which I presume is to set up a redemption if you continue to go down the recruit everyone path. By proving him wrong in future chapters, I presume he will talk more about himself and his ideals and perhaps listen to the Fun Gang and his son in turn.

CONCLUSION

My prediction is that over the course of the chapters, players will see more and more endearing aspects of the Chaos King, with things such as his theoretical neglect and love for Lancer being properly clarified and elaborated on, but only if you keep all recruits. He will still be sceptical, perhaps even leading to him going against you when the Knight returns, but he will ultimately fight by your side if you have successfully convinced him through your treatment of the Darkners that Lightners aren't bad after all.

Hopefully by the ending point, Ralsei would have had enough of an extential crisis to hear the Spade King out on his whole 'Darkners deserve to be happy without the Lightners' deal. Susie would absolutely be on board with her friends finding happiness without needing Lightners (I can see her arguing with Ralsei about it in a future chapter).

I can see him sacrificing himself, but I don't want Lancer to deal with that.

The final point I would like to mention is his place in the narrative. A lot of people have argued that all he is meant to be in an objective evil to prove that Ralsei was wrong about fighting never being the answer and that a redemption would ruin that, and yes, that is his role is chapter 1.

But if that was his only purpose, bringing him back as the only person to actively acknowledge the consequences of your lack of recruits seems pointless. Giving him moments of endearment and clarifying he loves his son is unnecessary. You, again, can argue it's for the sake of nuance but I think at this point I have clarified that there is a lot more to it than that.

Besides, what would be more satisfying to see than the most stubborn character of your journey, the only one you could not convince in the chapter he appeared in, joining your side as a result of you sparing every darkner you can?

In a game with only one ending, making routes like full mercy seem worth it is kind of important if you want players to bother caring about those mechanics. The few dialogue changes we do get really don't cut it.

But witnessing the development of a character who you started off hating but then becomes your ally due to your decisions and comes to help you in your darkest hour?

That would be worth it.

---

Thanks for reading this theory! It's been a while since I've written a theory like that. Do say your opinions, I know this is a desisive topic but I am still happy to hear people's perspectives!

#deltarune #spade king #chaos king #deltarune theory #deltarune analysis #deltarune chapter 2