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#discourse
mcmoth · a day ago
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People don't hate c!Phil because he's 'unempathetic', that's not it at all. This has got nothing to do with empathy. In fact, i'd say he is rather empathetic - he's atuned to when people are stressed, when they're angry, he knows what they're feeling, and he's good at helping them calm down when he wants to. People criticise him because what he isn't is understanding.
That's different to empathy. He can give advice and platitudes and encouragement plenty, and in fact, that's why c!Tommy values him so much, but it doesn't take away from how he's refusing to listen. He knows what people are feeling, and he's refusing to learn why. He's had so much time to learn the history behind everything, he's had so many reasons to, and yet, he remains stubborn in his stances - he remains stubborn in his belief that he knows better than them. That's the problem here - that he's condescending, he's hypocritical, and he continues to actively brush off any hurt that the people around him express at his actions. That's got nothing to do with empathy. You can be totally nonempathetic and be a very compassionate and moral person. And you can also be a very empathetic person and be a total asshole.
Nice doesn't equal kind. What matters is the desire to be better. And c!Phil has only expressed how everyone around him should be better, and never himself. What makes him a bad person is his total ineptitude for self reflection.
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upthehillart · a day ago
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I want to discuss Pansy..
Warning: The topic of racism is addressed, specifically in relation to Pansy x Hermione ship. So I’ll put all my rambling under the cut.
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Alright. I’ve received some messages questioning the morality of Pansmione. Now, this ain’t news or anything (it’s a long time coming tbh since I draw them a lot), and it’s far from being the only ship that tends to be interrogated, but it IS one of the only ones that actually carry the element of real racism - not the pure-blood stuff but race. I had read some posts and discourse online over the years, but I still feel inclined to make my own post and gather your opinions.
Now, personally, I love Pansmione. I love what they are in my head. I’ve reconciled the realities and nuances of this ship privately and in my own way and I’m able to enjoy them and find this pairing fulfilling and meaningful.
However, just to set the record straight, regardless of what headcanons anyone might come up with, canon Pansy IS an awful, racist, hateful person exhibiting almost zero redeeming qualities. I mean, she WAS sympathetic to her friends, like Draco, but they were all awful people so it’s not much of an argument. She’s a bully, period. (And if anyone is unclear about how Pansy has exhibited racism, she basically called Angelina’s afro braids to look like “worms coming out of [her] head”). Since Hermione is now commonly portrayed as black/POC now - by me, too - pairing her with Pansy gets extra tricky and raises issues - which is fair.
Secondly, I AM white, which means that I possess the privilege to even be able to reconcile with Pansy’s canon racism, unlike many other fans. I can’t ever forget about it, nor should I, but whenever I draw them, I do imply that Pansy’s a better person now. I feel like the fact that enjoying Pansmione can sometimes be a matter of privilege brings forth its own issues as well. Additionally, I know it gets even more complicated if Pansy’s portrayed as non-white herself (e.g. East Asian), and as a white person, I don’t know how to even begin to navigate this correctly...
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So, how do we approach a character like Pansy, who is basically the only one (to my memory - correct me if I’m wrong!) who exhibited actual racial prejudice, one that may hit home directly to many fans? Is it wrong to give canon Pansy a fanon chance?
When looking at the real world and specifically at individual racism, I feel like the thing that moves us forward is not pretending that racism didn’t happen, or just eternally condemning the wrongdoer and turning away; what actually IS a productive step forward is for those at fault to learn and realize their racism, put effort into changing it, and compensating the hurt. That’s what progress essentially is - growth - and growth is good and sometimes deserves its own spotlight.
This principle is basically what fundamentally supports and justifies my like for Pansmione. That people, even the problematic ones, CAN deserve further character development and deserve the permission to grow up, learn, and become better (because nobody is born perfect and all-knowing). Pansy was never created/meant to be such a character, but just because that’s the reality in canon, it doesn’t mean she shouldn’t deserve to be given that by a fan that wants to. In a way, THAT is what IS actively progressive (- Do you agree or disagree?).
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But when it comes to fanart, it gets more tricky because, unlike something like fanfiction, it cannot tell a fleshed-out story. It requires the viewer to use their own imagination and come up with the story themselves, or at least fill in the big gaps. And if you’re a viewer that finds Pansy’s character irreversibly uncomfortable or offensive, those gaps become impossible to fill in a manner that I can, for example. As a result, Pansmione then becomes repulsive.
So what, as a fanartist, can I do? What are my options? Does the fact that I, by default, can’t always communicate the complexities of the backstory in every fanart mean that some things - aka some ships - are inevitably and by default not okay to draw at all?
And in general, is Pansy just simply too problematic? Is today just “neither the time nor the place” for her and what she might represent? Is it immoral to attempt to make her, and ships with her, moral? My convictions disagree, but I’m always open to the fact I might not be informed enough, or too privileged.
That’s why I really want to hear your thoughts, especially from HP fans that are black and might find this matter even more personal. But everyone is welcome to pitch in. How does this ship make you feel? Is it uncomfortable to you? Do you like it, and if so, how do you make it work, how do you reconcile the inseparable canon reality of Pansy’s character?
Share your thoughts only if you feel comfortable and however you feel comfortable (comment, reblog, ask, DM, etc.)! Don’t feel afraid to provide constructive criticism regarding this topic too, I want to hear! I hope it makes sense what I’m trying to communicate, thank you so much for contributing!!
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(P.S. For anyone even asking, “WHY care about Pansy at all? There are plenty more female characters to care about in HP” - I hear it, I get it, and yet, despite my many attempts to rationalize my like for Pansy, I always fail. Giving more positive representation to Slytherins? Being a big fan of redemption arcs? Enjoying enemies to lovers tropes? Drawn to relationship dynamics that aren’t easy/simple? Am I into this dark sassy character concept/aesthetic? Projecting my own personal struggles with growth and balancing inner “light” and “dark”? Any other reason? No single one of them seems to fully explain it, I guess they all play a part. So yeah, idk... It’s more than okay for people not to like Pansmione, but I do.)
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daggryet · 19 hours ago
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imagine if someone defended c!sam with "he didn't know c!ranboo was on his final life" y'all would rightfully tear them apart because c!sam still killed him. he took a risk, and c!ranboo died for good because of it.
now can y'all stop defending c!phil as if "he didn't know c!wilbur was on his final life" in any way takes away from the fact that he killed his son. he took a risk, and c!wilbur died for good because of it.
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cube-cumb3r · 2 days ago
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idk where this idea that c!dreams fixation on c!tommy is just something the fandom have Made Up like came from tbh. it's a very deliberate impression that dream wants to give with his character, to the point where literally several other characters (and the streamers who play them, two of which have literally co-written arcs with the guy) have picked up and commented on it... whether you suspect it's genuine or a bluff, it's not something people have just Made Up lmfao
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journel-number-3 · a day ago
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hey! What The Fuck! Please stop saying shit like this! It's very upsetting!
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How is c!Tommy victimizing himself? He's currently being stalked? He was abused? He tried to get better and it was working- but then someone broke his abuser out of prison and that all went down the drain
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flypaw · 2 days ago
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You know what I'm feeling brave. It is Bad Writing to take away your protagonists literal ONLY win for what is essentially an entirely useless plot twist
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galient0 · a day ago
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That kinda of reminds me like. Ranboo has many material items (armor, weapons, ores, totems etc). Techno has the most attachments on the server (armor, weapons, animals, jewelry). Phil. You, ranboo, and Techno are the richest people on the server. Do not say that people have to care more about people than items when you constantly choose to live with your own richness all around you and dont actually give a shit about the people of lmanberg's wellbeing unless it directly concerns you :/
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fish-fucker-soot · a day ago
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Ok I keep seeing it but why the hell are we laughing and being rude to people who just want c!Phil hate tagged goddamn. I know you hate him but please think of the people who haven't seen lore or have personal reasons for liking c!Phil. Especially tag your suicide and death threats people. I can give a less a shit about c!Phil but Jesus Christ. We should know better.
I'm going to start blocking people who laugh at others who just want c!Phil hate tagged. I also now just have the word Phil filtered not bc I care about c!Phil but because there's so much fucking negativity on my dash and it's been hours of seeing it.
Tag your goddamn shit. The tags are there for a goddamn reason.
[do not start discourse bc of this post or on this post or else I will block you]
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fakecrfan · 2 days ago
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Well if I screenshot the take instead of arguing on the post--that’s better, right?
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[Image ID: post that says “Thinking about jon sims in s4 of the magnus archives and how he went out of his comfort zone to trust people around him and show them he cared for them, only to receive death threats and be directly told he wasn’t liked by those same people. not to mention the isolation from martin which is it’s own thing to dissect. and, love her or hate her, it’s genuinely kind of devastating that the only person to show any real outward affection towards jon in season 4 was Daisy.]
This! This encapsulates a variety of fandom takes that are... well, honestly not horrible. But confusing to me??? And I think I can finally articulate why I find this stance on friendship and love is so fucking bizarre.
Jon did basically nothing to make friends with people until season 4, and in season 4... he still didn’t!
He spends 2.5 seasons pushing people away. One of his assistants is his friend and he stalks him for months until the guy snaps. The other assistant wants to be his friend and Jon shouts at him. Then, when Jon comes to the realization he needs allies, he is... gone most of the time. 
We get clips of Melanie and Basira going out for drinks with Martin and talking about casual things. Those are gestures of friendship, trying to get to know each other and do something nice for each other. When does Jon do that? The closest he gets in season 3 when he finally tries to check in with Martin for a hot second before flying off to America. We don’t see him ever ask Basira if she’s doing alright as a hostage, or how Melanie is feeling now that she’s found herself trapped in this place. We don’t see him bringing either of them coffee, or offering get takeout, what do you want? We don’t see him throwing a surprise birthday party for anyone else, the way his entire staff does for him.
Those are actions you have to take to get people to be your friends. And we generally don’t see him initiate any interaction with Melanie or Basira outside of “hey I need something from you guys.” Would you like a guy who only shows up when he needs you to do something? Yeah that’s what I thought.
He’s nice in season 4. But being passively nice isn’t enough to make people bond with you. He helps people in a big way a few times (which IMO is more important, but we’re talking about friendship here, not whether Jon is morally a good person) but friendship is more than just the occasional grand gesture. He still isn’t going out and doing the friendship things to win people over! He doesn’t understand that he has to! 
Daisy is the one who does that to everyone in season 4! Daisy! Fucking DAISY has Jon beat for prosocial behavior!
Posts like this frame love and why people get it this way: “Person is a good person inside and is sad” → “Person deserves love and friendship” → “Other people are SUPPOSED to give the love and friendship why are they not dispensing comfort from their emotional vending machines??? Unfair! Unfair and cruel!” 
But that is not how it works. People don’t grant love and friendship because you’re a good person inside in some sort of essential sense. People react to give you love and friendship when you do friendship things for/with them. It’s not that it’s earned as  1-1 transactional exchange, but it takes a person actually doing the things, not just Being Good Inside. 
So people get angry at Basira and Melanie for Not Being Good Friends. But why are they being held to this standard? Did they say they were Jon’s friends? Has Jon done anything ever to try and befriend them? Why is it their responsibility to initiate friendship and give comfort, and not Jon’s?
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cruelfeline · 14 hours ago
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I'm usually very laissez-faire about people liking and disliking ships. Like... whatever works for you!
But I feel like the reason I often end up doing a double-take when met with Entrapdak antis is that their takes always just seem wrong. And not "wrong" as in "my opinion is better than yours," but "wrong" as in "you are just factually incorrect."
That's why they're so weird to me, I think: because the aspects of Entrapdak that they complain about just don't seem to exist.
So I'm like... the thing you don't like isn't real. Please reassess and try again.
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mr-scandalous · 17 hours ago
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im sorry our younger brother is too busy getting away from his abuser to revive your cat. never mind the fact that in order for him to do it he’d probably have to actually go to his abuser for the information. also never mind the fact that his abuser would probably use it against him rather than y’know, helping him. so sorry about that haha hope he remembers the power of friendship or whatever haha✌️
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heliianth · 19 hours ago
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some people really do think cc!wilbur is a terrible person and take it out on him via block game rp discourse huh
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wither-rose-circus · a day ago
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Okay I’m not gonna defend the point about burning the gapple, I agree Phil was overly harsh about the discs and I think he didn’t give Tommy as much credit as he deserved about learning to put people over items. (Though I will say like. Can we not? Compare Phil to Dream? Like first of all literally how could he have known blowing up Tommy’s items was something Dream did in exile or that the gapple was from Ranboo, and second of all Tommy didn’t even react. cc!Tommy knows how to react to something seemingly insignificant that reminds him of trauma, he did it to the rock button minutes earlier, but he didn’t do it to the gapple. At most, he just went >:o what the fuck man, and moved on. He wasn’t “retraumatized”).
But I do wanna talk about the walls
Yes, Tommy was responding to trauma by building those walls, but it wasn’t a healthy response. Walling himself in a space and being too afraid to go outside is not a healthy reaction. It’s an understandable one, but it’s not good for him. Phil literally admitted that at the time, he was nodding along and letting Tommy do it, likely because Tommy was panicking and not in a position to be reasoned with. But now that it’s days later and he’s calmed down, Phil explained to him that keeping them up like that wouldn’t help. Tommy doesn’t need someone who will put him in a bunker and stand in front of him, he needs someone who will stand beside him. Phil agreed to help fortify Tubbo’s old house because Tommy wasn’t running away or hiding that time, he was doing it so he’d be able to stand up to Dream if he came back around.
Philza never dismissed the fact that Tommy was afraid, he never told him he shouldn’t be scared. He told Tommy that he believed he was strong enough to overcome Dream and that he would be there to help him if he ever truly needed it.
So did Phil trip up? Absolutely, but I think he deserves a little bit more credit for his advice
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cryptodream · a day ago
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Irrational fear that if Dream even slightly makes his character slightly redeemable that everyone will dogpile him and call him gross shit all the while overlooking the fact he’s been through his own stuff and people will take a minecraft roleplay too seriously for comfort
this is not an irrational fear at all this is actually very valid and even likely to happen if that’s the direction he went LMAO we’ve already seen the essays just from him making his character smart with the final disc confrontation which was foreshadowed for almost an entire year
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angeloncewas · a day ago
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Comparing c!Phil to Jeff Bezos is some of the funniest bullshit y'all have ever come up with. A key factor in the notoriety of Jeff Bezos is the fact that his wealth was gleaned through exploitative methods and unethical practices like underpaying employees.
c!Phil just went and mined.
That doesn't mean he was right to say what he did to c!Tommy or whatever, I just think it's worth recognizing that the Minecraft economy is nothing like that which exists in our world and the implications of the comparison you're making are beyond ridiculous because of that.
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ghostpheonix5 · a day ago
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A noob scrollin through the Animorphs tag and saw somebody say the books portray genocide as a good thing
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timedeo · a day ago
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oh my god this person is comparing using cultural names to fucking godself and faer pronouns . you people are insane
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etacarinea · 2 days ago
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IMMA NEED YALL TO STOP ABOUT THIRTEEN.
Seriously, give me one agrument against her inclusion in the game that isn’t misogynistic or homophobic.
READ THE ANNOUNCEMENT POST. They are including her to be more inclusive to other sexualities. that means that she is meant to be a romance option, not a rival. Block the replaced au tag or something.
And if i hear a single complaint about her being an option, i swear. If it makes you uncomfortable, friendzone her, ignore her, or just play a different game. Some of you sound like those “ew dont hit on me” homophobic girls. Like, yall have put up with all the concerning writting and murder attempts with lucifer. I don’t see how this could be worse.
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mayaaminmin · a day ago
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on one hand, as someone who watches fundy, seeing all these spicy hot phil takes coming out feels so fucking good and vindicating and cathartic
but on the other hand, we literally could've had this conversation a whole ass year ago if people tried to watch even one (1) fundy stream post-doomsday
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