#discourse cw

[aqours]

we've entered a really fucking weird era of shipping discourse ngl

#the coffin of andy and leyley #proship #discourse cw #i was going to include a second thing but i think that one is bait #starposts #1k notes #2k notes #3k notes

[mr-ribbit]

gonna rant again bc im seeing a lot of trans women on my dash having to carry the heavy lifting to argue for their basic respect and a lot of other queer people who want to ??? get mad about that apparently. for the record as usual: im tme, im not speaking for anyone besides myself and my perspectives, but I am trying to reach out to fellow tme people to level with y'all from inside the house.

i thought we all got past the 'calling people gendered terms when theyve asked you to stop' thing in like. 2012. i swear we were allllll on board with not calling women dude anymore, nerfing sir and ma'am, neutralizing collective terms for groups, and all of that was like, during the onceler era. that's how we got off-putting shit like folx into the mix - remember???? why are we here again.

to those who I've seen claiming that they REALLY genuinely don't want to offend anyone, and that theyre trying to understand the dude thing, and they don't want to be seen as transmisogynistic when they aren't: ok. let's talk about it. step one, stop sending that really loaded anon to a trans woman you don't know, and close that in-group hatepost with 100 replies from people name-dropping trans bloggers they don't like. try to open your mind and assume for the duration of this post that I am not cynically trying manipulate thousands of tumblr users into making Bro the next big swear word, but a fellow queer human being who thinks you're all being pretty intentionally obtuse about an upsetting trend in our community

to be clear: this post is about the issue of trans women being called bro, dude, man, etc., particularly in recent tumblr discourse about transmisogyny, and the backlash they face if they get upset about it. this is also maybe moreso about the shitty ass excuses I see tme people make for why they supposedly can't stop doing this.

so let's go through some of the things I've been seeing people say they don't understand, supposedly in earnest, about this issue

"I DIDNT USE DUDE AS A MASCULINE TERM. I CALL EVERYONE BRO. MAN IS A GENDER NEUTRAL TERM"

I'm not actually going to exhaust my list of reasons why dude/bro/man are not strictly neutral, but you should be pretty aware that all words have context. Dude might be seen as neutral in many contexts, sure, but 'woman who is frequently called a man by others' is a situation where the context adds extra meaning to your words, just like calling someone "sweetie" might be neutral in some cases, but if you've got the context of knowing that's your coworker who's half your age, it's a bit less neutral. If you're not capable of reading that context and being tasteful about when you say dude, then you need to at least be ready to respond gracefully when someone asks you to stop. This is the part I'd rather focus on.

"BUT I DIDNT MEAN IT THAT WAY. IM NOT TRANSPHOBIC"

I think you should consider broadening your perspective *beyond* your intention behind the word. people may already understand that you meant the word neutrally and therefore didn't have transmisogynistic intent, but that's not really the entire scope of what people are saying. if that's your only concern, you're just trying to clear your record, not actually listen to what they're saying.

there are lots of words people don't enjoy being called, and in most cases, when they say 'pls don't call me that', people respect that and move on. even if the word isn't a slur, if it hurts someone's feelings, we all as a society have agreed that it's pretty shitty to keep calling them that. if your friend asked you not to call them 'buddy' anymore because their dead grandparent called them that, or something equivalently personal, you'd probably respect that instead of telling them 'but I call everyone buddy!!' right? even if you didn't really understand why it bothered them so much?

there is a prominent tendency for trans women to be denied this privilege, and when they ask not to be called dude or bro, people don't seem to respect this request as much as they would in other situations. when I accidentally use a gendered word and someone tells me they don't like it, I try to respond with something like "my bad, I didn't mean it as misgendering but I can see you were still bothered by it, so I'll try not to keep saying it. sorry!" and most people are willing to accept that. when trans women ask people this favor, a lot of people get VERY defensive, and treat the request as inane or unfair, instead of just apologizing and moving on. this is why people are upset when this happens, and it's why people are calling your actions transmisogynistic

also like you might not be doing this, but a lot of people DO use dude and bro in an intentionally gendered way to make trans women uncomfortable. it's a power play bigots use to talk down to them or otherwise maliciously harass them. do you know what arguments they use to defend that behavior when called out on it? 'oh I call everyone that' 'dude is gender neutral calm down' 'dont overreact its just a word'. by acting like this, youre all just giving credence to those same arguments.

"WELL THEY SHOULDNT GET SO MAD AT ME WHEN I DIDNT MEAN ANY HARM"

they can get as mad as they want!! also, are you sure they're 'mad'? or are they just expressing their feelings about a negative topic to you, and it makes you feel bad, so you have to make them out to be unreasonably emotional? how do you think they should have phrased 'dont call me that' to better spare *your* feelings?

also like, in most cases, these women do not knowww you. if your main response to someone saying you disrespected them is to say "I didnt mean it that way, I meant it in a friendly neutral way", well that's NOT YOUR FRIEND! she has no idea what your opinions are or what you think of her!!! she has no reason to assume you only upset her in a friendly way and not a bad unfriendly way! but she did get upset, and she did the one thing she can do which is *tell you what upset her* and your response is to say "well actually you shouldn't be upset at all"??????

and another thing:

it's not just the issue of using the word 'dude', it's because you're coming off extremely dismissive of women who have asked you to stop doing something that harms them, and because your argument is basically that they just shouldn't be so bothered by it. or that they're stupid, irrational, or otherwise crazy for telling you that it bothered them at all, just because you Technically used a gender neutral word according to Your Rules. be honest, does that seem fair? If people were calling you something that bothered you enough to ask them to stop, and they responded like this, how would it make you feel?

focusing solely on your intent and what the words mean when you use them is the same thing as saying "just get over it". no woman should need to Prove to you that 'dude' is gendered for you to care about what she's saying. the fact that you're asking people to do that sucks and makes you look bad, which is why people are arguing with you and calling you a misogynist.

especially those of you who are only doing this with trans women who are actively arguing with. you're wielding misgendering as a cudgel and we can all see it, grow up please.

#discourse cw #transmisogyny cw

[spicymancer]

So just wanted you to know, "yellow" is a common slur against Asian Americans and so Huang Feng, being a Bruce Lee (whos an Asian man) clone and all could raise some eyebrows to your intentions. And before i get accused of white knighting, i am Asian

Thanks for reaching out! This is honestly something that might be important to discuss and I appreciate your attempt at broaching the subject delicately. More after the jump.

So to start. I am also Asian. Specifically Chinese American.

As an American born Chinese, I have a weird relationship with my Asian heritage. I have a bad accent when I speak Chinese and most of my upbringing and cultural understanding is very American and western-centric. So I have certain biases at play here that I fully acknowledge. My experience is not universal. But these characters are drawn from that experience.

Huang Feng is a reference to Bruce Lee's performance as Kato in the Green Hornet. Dà Huángfēng being a Chinese term for a hornet.

The character is also narratively implied to be a secret moonlighting identity for the Yellow Ranger in my made-up sentai team. (Who, due to my own decision to always refer to the characters by their Ranger color, is literally just called Yellow by the other members of the cast.)

This is also a reference. Specifically to one of my greatest inspirations, Thuy Trang (Rest in Peace), who played the original Mighty Morphin Yellow Ranger. She was one of the first "Cool Asian Characters" that I encountered in media targeted at me as a child, problematic color choice aside. I sincerely adored her and her giant robot Saber-Toothed Tiger.

To be honest I have a complicated relationship with "Asian Themed" characters in media. So often saddled with cliché stereotypes: Martial Arts, dumplings, nunchucks, etc etc.

But the thing is, even as I roll my eyes whenever I see the Fighting Game character that is The Chinese One who wears a rice hat and a qipao. Or when one is literally just Bruce Lee. I do also immediately main that character. It's a bit of a guilty pleasure. Taking what representation I can get with mixed feelings. Similar to my enjoyment of sexy anime girl art even though it's all rooted in pretty uncomfortable sexist and objectifying aesthetics. A lot of my work comes from a place of exploring my own sexuality/identity. These characters are, partly, my own attempt to explore Asian themes and ideas for myself.

I would love to say that I'm trying to "reclaim" the term or something but I'm just some internet artist drawing cute anime girls and monster smut. For me, playing with these clichés is just another way of being self-indulgent.

Not really defending these creative choices so much as explaining my perspective on them. I totally understand if all this turns folks off! I fully respect those who don't vibe with my work and wish them all the best. It's a big internet and I'm sure they can find something super great to enjoy elsewhere!

Anyway, sorry for the long rambly post. Despite the fact that I'm posting this on Tumblr, I am not super mentally equipped to engage in Discourse, so forgive me if I don't respond to the tags on this.

So I'll just leave y'all with a neat article by Kat Chow discussing the history and usage of the color Yellow in regards to Asian Identity.

#oc questions #discourse cw #I love and appreciate all of you

[myceliumbutch]

Some of y'all stg

#babble babble #discourse cw #transandrophobia

[dykefaggotry]

another thing i've Witnessed in all spheres of modern feminism is who gets afforded the grace of "internalized misogyny" vs who just gets called a "misogynist"

like if you are a feminine cis girl (& usually white too) all your sexist bullshit is excused as internalized misogyny that was pushed on them by a sexist society that they have to unlearn but in the meantime we cannot hold them accountable or be too mean to them bc they're traumatized and trying :((((( so if you call out their sexism, YOU are in fact being a woman-hating bitch/dyke/etc who hates girls and girlhood

but...... if you are a trans woman or you're butch or a stud or a woman of color and you say anything even perceived as sexist, oh no no you do NOT get the grace of "internalized misogyny". you don't get time to learn or grow. you are a sexist and you should be shot and you might as well be a man.

and usually the latter group's "misogyny" is just pointing out the other group's double standards and sexism which gets us called not girls girls and "pick-mes" (used wrong) and sexist etc. like sometimes obviously we ARE misogynistic, everyone is, but usually it's over the dumbest shit and even in the cases where someone in the latter group is being genuinely sexist, they are NOT given the same grace as the former group

#sorry ive been on a feminism kick lately it's an autism mode rn but like. i have so many thoughts constantly just rattling around in there #discourse cw #but i REALLY noticed this one w my infamous post abt girl dinner lmfaooooo #the amount of ppl in those notes being like how dare you theyre traumatized by girlhood you fucking misogynist #like. do you not see the double standard there or.... no? okay

[regicidal-optimism]

You've been reblogging more stuff about female characters getting ignored by fandoms recently and I would be really curious to hear your full views on the topic.

The thing is that... look. I get it. Many fandoms do not have very many women in their canon, many of those women are treated pretty poorly by the canon or aren't given as much depth as their male peers, and if you're at all picky the pickings are kind of slim (I would love to be a fan of c!Niki, if I were able to watch six-hour vods, which I am not). It is not wrong that most works with large fandoms are really, really sexist, and the problem is not just in the fanbase!

But come the fuck on. It is not an accident that the DSMP and the MCU and BNHA, all of which are vast-majority male and the female characters are treated terribly, are megafandoms, and Revolutionary Girl Utena is eligible for yuletide. It is not wrong that if you want to see more female-character-focused fanwork you should go to Sailor Moon and not The Untamed, but it is also kind of missing the point to say that and not look at the difference in size between those fandoms. People can say "it's because the male characters are so often more interesting and have more meaningful interactions," and like, sometimes that's even true, I will be the first to tell you that quackbur has more to it than tinarose, but please compare the Clint/Coulson tag to the Utena/Anthy tag and look me in the eye and tell me that's the only thing driving the trend. With a straight face.

And even more there's a thing where— so, I was a mod in the @ao3topshipsbracket bracket. And femslash ships, once they were in the bracket, did really well. Like, absurdly well, like 80% of the f/f ships entered got to the top 16, and the last one was against blackbonnet which was never gonna lose in round 1. You might notice something about that number, though, which is that there were only five of them entered total, because people love to vote for femslash but they absolutely will not write it. And they won't say anything about it either! I was watching the activity feed the entire tournament, and I can tell you, for all of the "let's go lesbians" that populated our notes, nobody would say anything that was actually about the specific characters who made up their ship. I learned a lot about Naruto fandom, modding that bracket; I still know nothing about CW Supergirl, because the only thing anyone would say about it is "it has women in it". Because women are interchangeable. Because women are avatars of Being A Good Feminist. Because clicking a button is easy, and actually thinking about any specific woman and her traits and her internality is hard.

The thing is that guilt over misogyny does not actually fix misogyny. It gets you a lot of people who vote for women in polls, and who say "he's like a woman to me" about their male faves but notably don't have any canonically female characters they talk about, and who say that the only thing they care about in a fic is if it has women in it but will not ever actually say anything about any specific woman, and who never shut up about yuri but apparently yuri is everything and anything except women who have feelings about one another.

I'm tired! I'm very tired. I want people to actually give a shit about specific women and their specific traits, which do not begin and end with "woman". And, also, to stop treating women exclusively as the wingmen, advice-givers, mom figures, and accessories of men.

#grace dot text #ask #fandom misogyny #discourse cw #creative reading

[pactw]

by @magical_maru on twitter

#baghera #baghera jones #qsmp baghera #qsmp #i'm glad that cellbit took a strong approach to say ban every single person doing that harassment shit #discourse cw #<hardly. people on twitch are misogynistic weirdos -- nothing is new

[inktog]

Privacy is a sacred right you guys

#mine #adultism #discourse cw #sorry i'm just very tired of this talking point #proship

[kiruliom]

can we stop the belief that terfs hate transfems exclusively or like more than they hate cisgender men or transmascs and pretending it's just the trans women's battle against them and you're allies for them or whatever. this literally undermines how much harm theyre doing both to the trans community as a whole and even to the people (cis women) they claim to be protecting. terfs hate trans men just as much as trans women, transmascs arent safe because terfs view them as "uwu confused girlies trying to escape oppression", that is a very narrow worldview and inherently transphobic itself (it excludes butches, transmascs who's medically transitioned, intersex people, etc. etc.) transfems arent more oppressed by terfs than any other people theyre oppressing, please understand this. Im so sick and tired of people undermining my transmasc siblings when it comes to harassment from terfs because "well you arent a target to them", why are they harassing them then????

I just geniuenly dont like how the queer community can claim to be transmasc friendly and then view transmascs the same way transphobes view them (again, uwu girlies who are tricked into ruining their feminine beauty, they dont know anything and how lucky they are). feels both andromisic and misogynistic at the same time on top of transmisic idk how the fuck you manage to fuck up that badly

tldr: stop pretending transmascs arent affected by terfs nearly as much as transfems

anyone can reblog, except terfs of course they can fuck off

transfem is used as a way to refer to "TMA"/"AMAB" trans people transmasc is used as a way to refer to "TME"/"AFAB" trans people I know the definition is a bit more fluid now so I just wanted to note that

#not flagpost #discourse cw #transfem #trans rights #trans discourse #trans discussion #trans discrimination #trans #transgender #transmasc #anti radfem #transsexual #trans community #lgbt #lgbtq #lgbtqia #lgbt discourse #lgbtq community #queer community #lgbt representation

[fanby-fckry]

I feel like some people need to see this, tbh

#yes this is about Alastor #admittedly I tend to lean towards qp ships and kink-favorable headcanons #but you really don’t need to ship characters to enjoy them #you guys are just aphobic #discourse cw #aroace #aroace alastor #asexual alastor #aromantic alastor #fanby’s fuckery

[xxlovelynovaxx]

The whole point is you don't know if they're fem cis men. You don't know if they're trans men. You don't know if they're trans women deeply closeted for their safety. You don't know if they're trans women whom misgendering will drive them further AWAY from their egg cracking and harm them. You. Don't. Know.

Misgendering is bad. "Clocking" someone is bad. Making assumptions about someone's identity and then turning it into a "joke" is bad. What's funny about misgendering someone?

Also, this discourse is literally in the context of the queer community. It's literally in the context of the queer community having an antimasculinity and gender essentialism problem. It's also in the context of gender stereotypes and the fact that smelling like flowers or painting your nails making you a girl doesn't become less of a harmless stereotype because it's a trans woman saying it. Like oh wow we went full circle from "girls play with dolls and like pink" to "trans girls play with dolls and like pink". Congrats on alienating every non-femme trans woman and femme trans non-woman.

It's not fucking transmisogyny to tell you not to misgender people or assume liking frilly things makes someone a girl. It's not fucking transmisogyny to tell you that the QUEER and especially TRANS communities have an issue with valorizing femininity while demonizing masculinity. It's not fucking transmisogyny to acknowledge this while acknowledging that actual transmisogyny demonizes transfemininity while infantilizing and erasing transmasculinity.

I'm putting the word transmisogyny on a high shelf until the rest of y'all learn what it actually fucking means. Transmisogyny isn't when an entitled white trans woman gets called out for doing actual harm. Like "joking" about misgendering someone. Or "joking" about being racist and going through a "nazi phase". Or "joking" about "raping cuntboys". It might be affirming that some queer people take your white woman's tears at face value, but here's the thing:

You're lovely women who deserve to have every access to transition, to resources, to be treated equally to cis people. You're just really fucking shitty people. You're bigots, you're cruel, you're cliquey, and you're like every boring high school mean girl who never grew out of pettily bullying other vulnerable people to get over the pathetic inadequacies of your own life circumstances.

People like that deserve community and kindness too. They also deserve not to have their behavior tolerated and to have to deal with compassionate rehabilitative justice. Those things can both be true, especially when the people they are hurting explain until our throats are raw how they're hurting us and they just keep doing it. Because the thing is, it's not actually about any "societal pressure to transition", and the fact you think it is shows you haven't listened to a single actual criticism anyone has had of the whole "egg discourse".

Other people have already explained more patiently and eloquently than me what exactly the problem with calling someone an egg is. I'd think you'd be concerned minimally with how it hurts actual transfem eggs more than anything, even if you don't care about how it very much does hurt transmascs and GNC cis men and the movement of transfeminism as a damn whole to insist "haha liking fem things=woman".

Explain what's funny about that. I'll wait.

Anyway, this was reblogged from someone I long ago considered a friend, someone I thought was better than this. I really thought most trans people were better than this when I first entered the community. I still hope some are. You deserve to be told that this is wrong, because you deserve to be reminded that you're better people than this kind of bullshit.

-your utterly over it neighborhood intersex transneufemmasc

#I AM a fucking trans woman and you'll never fucking convince me that joking about misgendering people is okay #regardless of their actual identity #or that joking about clocking people is okay #or the harm this does to actual eggs is okay #or the harm this does to transmascs and GNC folks is okay #or the ways this sets both cisfeminism and transfeminism back to the fucking 90s at least is okay #y'all are as bad as bigoted comedians clinging to the same unfunny jokes and crying bigotry just bc people tell you it's bigoted #like seriously y'all fucking get over yourselves #discourse cw

[aqours]

hey did you know we've reached a point in weird discourse puritanism that people like actually unironically think that Call of Duty makes you visualize the horrors of war as opposed to thinking that war is cool and specifically is funded by the US military to make the US military look badass and cool. like people will actually say "well unlike the gross game with incest in it CALL OF DUTY ACTUALLY SHOWS-"

(that was the more serious one but also completely blind to the understanding that higher wanted ratings in GTA actively makes the game more fun so it actively encourages you to do it, as it makes the game more fun by increasing the intensity of the game itself and letting you kill more cops)

#i hate rev says desu but good lord #the coffin of andy and leyley #coffin of andy and leyley #discourse cw #proship

[angelic-prince]

Trans man: here's an issue that we face

Everyone else: you hate women and also you've never faced any oppression your just making it up

Trans man: finally snaps and goes off on everyone

Everyone else: your so transmysgonisit and horrible and you've never suffered but we'll all continue to make fun of you for anything, receding hair, voice cracks, having a "micro dick", height shaming, and also never siding with you. But you better not say anything about our treatment for you because we can use all the buzzwords to destroy your life

And then go cry that trans men don't have their backs or whatever. Like y'all don't deserve our support lol

(op is dyslexic anyone making fun of typos will be eaten alive)

#prince.txt #transandrophobia #transmasc #trans male #trans boy #trans man #not even tagging trans community bc there is no community lol #discourse cw

[reflectiondetonation]

“be gay, do crimes!!! oh wait hold on that trans person that hacked the horrifically racist and evil no fly list said something about bi lesbians or something??? actually you SHOULD get arrested... OH LMAO IT GOT UPSET ABOUT PEOPLE INVALIDATING SOME ~MADE UP~ (because i said so) IDENTITY LMAOOOOOOO clearly it only ever wanted to do it for publicity :))))))))) i’m very intelligent”

(note: some of maia’s pronouns are it/its)

#discourse cw #maia arson crimew #lgbt #current events #trans #please just accept you contribute nothing to social progress or discourse and move on

[estrogenism]

"bi lesbians are centering men in lesbian spaces-" you literally use "nonmen loving nonmen" as the definition of lesbian.

#lelei speaks ★ #queermisia cw #bimisia cw #lesbomisia cw #discourse cw #bi lesbian #pan lesbian #mspec lesbian

[tommyssupercoolblog]

Vent about Antis

obvs this convo would never happen they would be blocked already but. aguhgh.

#tommy's og art wow #tommy's OG ART wow #cw discourse #discourse #discourse cw #tw discourse #discourse tw #proship #proshipper #proshippers please interact #pro fiction #profic #anti harassment #anti puritan #anti purity culture #anti censorship #ship and let ship