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#do they....actually think that Loki was Odin's son IN THE EDDAS
avelera · 5 months
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Some missed opportunities for Norse Mythology references in the Loki S2 Finale
I want to quickly preface this by saying the Loki show never claimed to be about or even incorporate more than passing nods to Norse mythology, so the following "missed opportunities" are more things that I think could have been cool and were perhaps within reach as references, but that even at my most wildly optimistic I didn't and still don't really expect because the show has been so very clear on this front. It's not fair to say these are flaws because the show never pretended to be about Norse mythology. NEVERTHELESS, because I'm a big nerd:
1) Ragnarok - All respect to Waititi and Thor III, it was a great interpretation of the myth, but I've always longed for something a little closer to the doom and mysticism of the mythology and the Loki S2 finale came tantalizingly close to invoking it, but fell short of actually using the word. Because Ragnarok isn't just about the fall of the gods, it's about the destruction and rebirth of the world. "After [the events of Ragnarok], the world will rise again, cleansed and fertile, the surviving and returning gods will meet, and the world will be repopulated by two human survivors." 
Gee does that sound familiar! Almost like destroying all of the timelines to create them anew! Almost like that's what Sylvie was invoking by telling him it's better to accept destruction rather than accept imprisonment, and to build something new out of the ashes.
That's Ragnarok. That's literally Ragnarok and they invoked it in so many ways there short of actually using the damn word.
Loki, the god destined to bring about Ragnarok, proceeding to directly bring down the current timeline by destroying and then renewing it with a male and female survivor to help rebuild (visualized with Mobius and Sylvie's little chat at the end, even if it's the TVA they helped rebuild not the human population) sure does sound astonishingly close to invoking the story of Ragnarok.
And even though I'm bummed they never called it Ragnarok, I completely understand why! Ragnarok has kinda already happened in the MCU (never mind that Ragnarok itself is cyclical and will come again, but I digress)! I'd even go so far as to guess that earlier drafts probably did make it clearer but the thread, except for its bones and outline, were abandoned or left unnamed explicitly because it would be confusing for those not familiar with the myth or who would conflate Ragnarok with its Thor III invocation. Alas.
2) Loki bound - Already sort of invoked in Thor II with Loki imprisoned, which is why I don't think any more overt reference was made, but Loki was rather famously bound up in mythology. In this case, in a cave with a snake's poison dripping into his mouth. Not saying Loki bound to his throne of time needed to be conflated with how he was imprisoned until Ragnarok in the myhology, but the imprisonment parallel is there.
3) Loki becomes the new Odin, sacrificed upon Yggrasil - "The generally accepted meaning of Old Norse Yggdrasill is "Odin's horse", meaning "gallows". This interpretation comes about because drasill means "horse" and Ygg(r) is one of Odin's many names. The Poetic Edda poem Hávamál describes how Odin sacrificed himself by hanging from a tree, making this tree Odin's gallows. This tree may have been Yggdrasil." (source)
IE, Loki has sacrificed himself upon the world tree for power and knowledge and for the sake of the world. In this, unlike in the mythology where Loki is not Odin's son, Loki ascends to a parallel of his father's throne to follow in his legacy, having finally learned his father's lessons about rulership and self-sacrifice. Perhaps like the mythological Odin, we will learn that in making this self-sacrifice, Loki too has gained phenomenal knowledge and power?
4) Ratatoskr - This is more foward-looking and I don't in a million years think they'll do it but it would be so cool - so cool - if at some later point Loki has a friend or a servant or a squirrel form or idk, something that invokes Ratatoskr, the squirrel that lives in the World Tree and freely travels up and down its branches delivering messages. Please, MCU, give Loki a little squirrel friend??
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shitpostingkats · 2 years
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Mythological References in KH:DR (Pt.1)
All of the names, inspirations, and references to norse mythology I saw in the new dark road chapters, with a little bit of my own poetic license thrown in, because that’s half the fun with these roundups :D
This post WILL contain spoilers for the Dark Road finale.
PART ONE - The Characters
When the character designs for dr first dropped, featuring the key class that trained with Xehanort and Eraqus, a lot of people were quick to point out how they all take their names from norse gods/goddesses. They’ve already been covered in other excellent posts, plus, I’ll be talking about them more in my part two. But! With the update, we finally got to meet the eponymous upperclassmen, who also take their names from mythological figures
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Vidar - The Silent God. Víðarr is the son of Odin, mostly attested as a god of vengeance, he killed Fenris wolf at ragnarok in response for the doggo devouring Odin. This fits the student leader we see in dr; broody, stern, and occupied with avenging the loss of his classmates. Some scholars propose his epithet of “silence” is specifically a part of his mourning, a part of the ritual retribution he takes part in. (More on that later)
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Vala - Seer, sorceress. Not a god or goddess, Vala, or völva, is a northern germanic term for prophetess, which relates to Vala’s analytical predictions, as well as her references to her “vision” and it being unclear if she means her glasses, or a real ability to see the future. Interestingly, she is not named for the norn who sees the future. That honor goes to Skuld. So far, we’ve actually seen two norn names: Urd, meaning “That which has happened”, and Skuld, meaning “That which shall be”. I’ll let the Subject X = Skuld theorists do with that what they wish.
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Vali - The Chosen. Not to be confused with Váli, the son of Loki. Váli is another son of Odin (Almost every male student is named after a god that, at some point or another, is attested as a son of Odin. The exceptions are Xehanort, Eraqus, and Helgi.) Váli, however, is a special kiddo, being born specifically to avenge the death of Baldr. According to the poetic edda, he grows to adulthood in a single day. “[He] will kill when one night old – he will not wash hand, nor comb head, before he bears to the pyre Baldr's adversary.” This not washing hand or hair is linked by some scholars to Víðarr’s silence, likely some lost ceremony of keeping a stoic lifestyle until one has delivered justice. He’s also described archer, which is probably where they got the ninja motif. An excellent marksman, he shoots the god who killed Baldr, killing them in return.
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Hoder - The Battle Warrior. You may be wondering: who killed Baldr? Well, in the mythology, it’s his brother Hǫðr (Helped by Loki). In most myths said to be blind, (though this is disputed) Hǫðr unknowingly shot Baldr with the one thing that could kill him. And while she doesn’t cause his actual death in the game, it could be said that Hoder was the catalyst for Baldr being overcome by his darkness. They are said to both be reborn after ragnarock, finally free to live together in the peace they could not have in their first life. You know, like....
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Ahem.
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Heimdall - World-brightener. Now, sadly we’re starting to get to the three upperclassmen we know the least about.  From the few lines they have, Heimdall does seem to be cool, levelheaded, and forward thinking, which matches with the watchman of the gods. Also, Heimdall is often referred to as “the whitest of gods”, probably where the character designers came up with the silvery hair and pale outfit. Other than that, we sadly don’t have enough information to make many connections.
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Sigrun and Helgi - The valkyrie and the hunter. I grouped these two together because, again, we don’t know much about them, but also, their mythological counterparts are a pair. They’re kind of of the odd ducks. First off, they’re the only upperclassmen not named after gods. Sigrun was a valkyrie who fell in love with a mortal, Helgi Hundingsbane. However, she was betrothed to another man, and Helgi ended up going to war over the whole mess and dying at the hand of her brother. Heartbroken, Sigrun curses her brother and spends the rest of her life mourning and tending Helgi’s tomb. The second interesting thing is their story doesn’t end there. The original editor of the poetic edda notes that Sigrun and Helgi are actually the second incarnation of this pair; before, they were a married couple by the names of Sváfa and.... Helgi. And then, after their second lifetime, are reborn as Kára and *pinches nose* Helgi. (Seriously man, how do you keep getting reborn with the same name?!?) These two are the only that don’t bear a very strong resemblance to their original counterparts. Aside from being a male and female fighter, I don’t think they even exchange a single line of dialogue. In the downtime where everyone’s napping in the clearing, Sigrun isn’t sitting with Helgi, she’s curled up with Vala (Which I WILL be interpreting for my own purposes, thank you very much. Harold, they’re lesbians) I think the real character inspirations here are meant to be these ideas of reincarnation and rebirth. The cycle of lives, over and over. The memories of past lives and past love. Important themes they start pushing in this game.
That’s the upperclassmen, though! I’ll be making a part two where I cover more general norse inspirations, as well as just little details I noticed, and some theories on what we could potentially see in Missing Link!
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jonquilclegane · 1 year
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Sigyn, goddess or mortal?
So, @punk-academian-witch left a very interesting question in the tags of my last post about Sigyn, and if you don’t mind, I’m going to answer it here :)
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So, when you read the Eddas, Voluspa and different sources from Norse mythology, it’s not actually clearly said that Sigyn is a goddess, only that she is Loki’s wife, and that she stands by his side, holding her bowl.
EDIT: @roruna​ reminds me that Sigyn is listed as a goddess in the Prose Edda, in the book Skáldskaparmál ;)
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Most scolars agree with the fact that she was an Aesir goddess, and indeed, to face Skadi’s snake and Odin’s punishment, and hold that bowl for so many centuries, until Ragnarok and Loki’s release, I’m not sure a mortal could have done it...
Another thing tends to confirm her godhood: Loki’s snobbery. If you read the Lokasenna, you know the way Loki talks to Feyr’s and other gods’ servants... 
He’s littleraly like “How dare you talk to us, PEASANTS”, I kid you not XDXD
So yeah, having a short affair with a mortal man or woman, why not. But for them to become his official spouse? Yeah ^^’
For Loki to regard Sigyn as worthy of being his bride, it’s pretty obvious she had to be a goddess of her own, and probably from a powerful family... The fact that the other gods do not use Sigyn’s name during Lokasenna, in a “Oh yeah, my wife did that, well, think your wife is perfect?”, makes me think that 
1. Yes, Sigyn must have been indeed pratically perfect in every way
2. She was too high for any god to dare tarnish her reputation ^^’
Loki dares attack Odin, Frigga, Freya, Sif, Idunn, and the others... but the other gods might not have the guts to do the same with a Vanir princess or an daughter of Odin?
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There are clues, and it’s fun to play with them anyway.
Cat Rector made Sigyn an Odindottir in her novel “The Goddess of Nothing at all”, so maybe? Odin is also called “Father of Victory”, and shared his titles with his children: for instance, he’s a God of poetry, and so is his son Bragi. So, maybe: Odin, God of Victory, sharing his title and responsability with his daughter Sigyn? MAYBE.
Marvel, though we disagree on their depiction of Sigyn, had made her the daughter of Freya and Iwaldi... and why not?
Idunn is also the daughter of Iwaldi, that would make them sisters, and so, give Loki one more good reason to save Idunn from Thjazi.
It would also give Loki a good reason to attack Idunn on how she fell in love with her brother’s murderer (during Lokasenna).. if the brother in question was also his brother-in-law through Sigyn.
Iwaldi’s sons are also the ones he supports the most during the creation of Mjölnir and other treasures of the gods. Nabbi & Daenne get to be rather unbothered, while the other dwarves get bitten, and can’t do a good job ^^’ (but Loki will pay the price for that :’( )
I rather like this theory, even more when you remember that most treasures of the Norse gods were created by the Dwarves... and one of Sigyn’s kennings is Loki’s TREASURE.
Speaking of treasure, who could be the mother? Well, I tend to agree with Marvel (*faints* I know, I know, I’m SHOCKED TOO).
We know that Freya had at least one affair with some dwarves... so Sigyn could have been created then. 
And to go back to ‘Loki’s treasure’ kenning: in a few texts, Freya’s daughters, Gersemi & Hnoss are named, but scolars are not even sure they truly exist, as both their names mean "treasure" and "jewel', and Freya is know as “the mother of the treasures”. For instance, in a source, there is this man who calls the axe he just received as "the daughter of Freya", the "niece of Feyr", "grandchild of Njord", because he regards his new axe as a treasure worthy of such titles ^^'So their existence might be just a kenning badly translated/understood by Snorri & his friends. Some scolars think there might be only ONE daughter... and that made me wonder... 
What if Sigyn is Gersemi/Hnoss? Or what if Gersemi ‘jewel’/Hnoss ‘treasure’, are only cute nickname/pet name a mother would call her daughter... and not her actual name, aka Sigyn.
Freya was a Valkyrie. YOU KNOW DAMN WELL she would give her daughter a badass name, like the ‘friend of Victory”/”Victorious girlfriend”
Another clue seem to confirm this. So Freya’s daughter(s) are her treasure(s)... and we know, from the Brísingamen’s tale, that LOKI STEALS a JEWEL/TREASURE from Freya... Of course, it’s the necklace, but... could it be more? That would be totally a Loki move and in character for him ^^’
Freya’s treasure would indeed become LOKI’s treasure ^^’
Now, what would Sigyn be goddess of? 
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Marvel tells us: Goddess of Fidelity... eh? Why not?
Cat Rector made her Goddess of Nothing at all XDXD
Many pagans see her as Goddess of Victory, and I agree. It does makes sense. Her name is the biggest clue we have about who she was, and if Odin as a Victory deity is called SIGtyr, and you have so many heroes and Valkyries sharing that ‘Sig’ prefix, you can be sure a goddess with THAT name is not Goddess of ‘nothing at all’, or Goddess of ‘fidelity’, but at the very least ONE of the Victory deities. 
The theory that Ragnarok cannot be won by either sides, as Sigyn, the Goddess of Victory, cannot choose between her family and friends, and her husband, makes A LOT of sense, doesn’t it? :)
To tell you the truth, this “Sigyn as the Norse goddess of Victory” is so popular that if you google “Norse goddess of Victory”, Sigyn’s name will appear. Of course, it does not mean it’s true, but it shows how many people agree with that fact... Even though Marvel & the Marvel inspired writers would want you to believe otherwise, and picture Sigyn as some weak doormat ^^’
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I REALLY hope the next “Gods of War” game introduces her, and is as respectful with her as they were with Angrboda... *fingers crossed*
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margridarnauds · 3 years
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Not to pick on TV Tropes too much (though tbh it’s one of my favorite hobbies): Do you think that they actually...............read. The Eddas? Like, really, really read them? 
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godsofhumanity · 2 years
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Uhh anyway got any headcannons on Frigga?
sorry for taking so long with this T-T
with Frigg, the first word that comes to mind is "gentle".
based on the way she's written in the poetic edda, in all those poems, especially in Baldr's Dream, she just seems so gentle and kind.
i don't see her as being an aggressive person in any way.. not even passive aggressive.
the second word that comes to mind is "mother".
i think that Frigg is super maternal.. she has a HUGE heart, and a lot of love to share <3
now, we all know that Odin has lots of affairs.. but i can't recall any myths where Frigg is actually hostile to anyone involved. this could either mean that Frigg is just complacent, or she's just a peace-keeper.
i've heard some people say that Frigg and Odin aren't really romantically involved, they're more best friends. but i like the idea that they do love each other. i don't think there's any point in getting married if you're just friends.
so, i think that Frigg simply forgives Odin because she loves him.
to be honest, it's tempting to compare Frigg and Odin with Zeus and Hera, but i feel like with Zeus and his affairs, loads of his affairs are simply because he wants to.. but with Odin, he such a big connection to prophecies, and wisdom, and foresight, i feel that most of Odin's affairs are intentional, for the betterment of the world.
easily the prime example of this would be Vali, who was specifically born in order to avenge Baldr.
so, in short, i think that Frigg actually has a kind disposition towards all of Odin's "illegitimate" children. i think she gets on well with Thor, she's kind to Tyr, etc.
anyways, back to Frigg.
as i was saying, i think she's just overall mild-natured, and well-mannered. i don't think this makes her weak at all. in fact, i think this is a great strength-- it's so easy to lash out and be mean when we're hurt, it's difficult to remain kind.
now,, Freyja and Frigg are often conflated as being one individual. i've seen people say that Freyja and Odr, and Frigg and Odin are parallels of each other, or perhaps they're even the same god.
personally, i like the idea of them being individuals, but i also like the idea that Freyja and Frigg are very close.
i think Frigg might perceive Freyja as like a niece or something. but i think they would have a very close bond, and share tips and trades.
about Loki; i think undoubtedly, Frigg hates Loki. lots of the Asgardians do. i think from the very start, she has always been hesitant about Loki. and i think she constantly tells Odin to keep his distance, to stay away from Loki.. but Odin feels like he can keep things under control.
anyhow.. last thing-- in the story of Baldr's death, at the end, Hodr dies as well, being killed by Vali.
personally, this ending is just so horrible and sad because Frigg doesn't lose just 1 son.. she loses 2!! i imagine that the whole thing just absolutely broke Frigg. i think she would have been so miserable and sad.
even though it was Baldr who was the beloved, and not Hodr. i just can't see Frigg as being a mother who has a favourites. and i think she would have known that Baldr's blood was on Loki's hands really, not Hodr's. i don't like the idea of her being ashamed of Hodr, or blaming him.
it makes me wonder whether she'd have begged Odin to not kill Hodr.. would Odin have been fiercely angry at Hodr and killed him out for revenge? or did he kill him because he knows that fate is absolute, and it had to happen? maybe it was just as painful for Odin as it was for Frigg.
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broomsick · 3 years
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Hi! I work with Loki and Freyja currently and am interested in what Odin is like based on people's interactions with him. I don't want to work with him, as I am a bit afraid of him. I am also curious as to how Loki and Odin interact with each other? Not many examples in the Edda's.
Hello! Well that's a really interesting question.
Odin is the Allfather, so His devotees often feel a fatherly protectiveness from Him. In my experience, He's pretty independent and doesn't actively participate in His devotees' lives as much as others do (like Loki lol). Rather than blatantly helping them out, He prefers to show them ways to help themselves. As you probably know, He's dedicated to always learning more and growing as a person, and I'm guessing He wants the same from His followers. He values the pursuit of knowledge and personal growth above all.
As for His actual personality, we really don't know about it much. He's not exactly flamboyant, I think it all depends on how you approach Him. One thing's for sure: He was always righteous and bent on bringing justice to those who are overlooked or shunned. I agree He CAN be sort of intimidating, and He sure as hell isn't perfect, but He will always comes through when it comes to big decisions in your life. I often call to Him for discernment, asking Him to lend me His wisdom when I need to make difficult choices. He helps me weigh the pros and cons every single time.
Now for His interactions with Loki: we know for sure that They interacted, since Odin allowed Him into Asgard to join the Gods. According to the myths, He trusted Loki enough to form a blood pact with Him. Unfortunately, the origins of this story were pretty much erased by the overwhelming domination of Christianity back in the day and we can't know for sure how reliable this myth is.
The Trickster is often depicted as being His mischievous companion, and They do share quite a few myths. Despite that, there weren't clear interactions between the two in the Eddas. Loki gave the Allfather quite a few gifts though: His horse, His spear and the ring Draupnir. (Check this myth X )
Still (according to the stories, that is), Loki was indirectly responsible for the death of Baldr, Odin's beloved son. A lot argue that the Gods had cast away Loki's children in the first place and the vengeance was pretty much His to take.
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alirhi · 3 years
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Loki ranting
Okay. I had this thought in my head of like just compiling links of all the Loki shit I've posted/reblogged so far so that when I get into a conversation about the show and how it fucking disgusted me, I can just be like "here. here's this masterlist post, go read all this shit. This is my entire argument, and not only mine, but a lot of stuff posted by people far more intelligent and level-headed and eloquent than I am, whom I happen to agree with." Because the alternative is constantly getting fired up all over again, and that is exhausting.
BUT! I'm stupid and don't know how tumblr works. Apparently I can't just be like "give me all the Loki-tagged shit I've got" I can only search all the Loki-tagged shit on all of tumblr. And I'm not scrolling back through all of my posts. I talk too fucking much for that shit 😂
So, I'll try to remember all of my grievances with how the MCU has treated Loki, and all of the excellent posts made by other, equally upset fans, and put it all together here under this nice, neat little cut for everyone else's sanity and scrolling convenience...
For people who actually read my shit fairly regularly - bless you, you crazy, patient people. I love you! - this is going to be a lot of repetition of shit you've already read. Probably at least twice. I'm passionate and I have a terrible memory lol. Sorry.
Anyway, first, for those who don't know me and haven't been following my explosions of rage for the past couple of months, some quick background: I do not read comic books, so Loki's Marvel comic canon means nothing to me. I know almost nothing about it. The reason I'm so in love with the character in the MCU is because I am an eclectic witch and the deity I've actively loved and worshiped the longest in my life (literally for as long as I can remember) is Loki. So when he was mentioned in The Mask, I squeed. When they named Matt Damon's character after him in Dogma, I cheered.
When Thor came out in 2011, I just about died from happiness. I was hungry for any representation of this underappreciated god, no matter what it was. I didn't even bitch about how underpowered he was, because at least he was there. But I'm getting slightly ahead of myself.
I can hear anyone reading this going "Why Loki? Isn't he, like, evil? Like basically the Norse version of The Devil?" Because I heard all this shit irl all the fucking time. And no. So let me give you a quick rundown of who Loki actually is.
Loki is a Trickster God. He's often referred to as the God of Mischief. He is not and never was evil, simply chaotic and hedonistic. Loki Laufeyjarson was the son of Laufey (that's mama; they changed her to a man for some reason in the movie) and Fárbauti. Right from the start, from his name, we get a sign of how Loki goes against traditional norms of the time, because in Norse culture, families were patrilineal, and surnames were "son/daughter of father" (which would have made him Loki Fárbautitason), not the mother. But Loki's surname is matrilineal. Feminist icon woo! lol
Though he's a Jotunn, Loki is counted among the Gods (Aesir) in Norse tradition. Depending on his mood, he is alternately helpful or disruptive to the other Gods. I'm not gonna sit and teach a whole text class on him lol but I'll use my favorite example of Misunderstood Loki - the conception of Sleipnir!
So, get this shit. This is also part of why I DO NOT follow Odin and never fucking will (a very small part, but still part of the reason). So, the other Norse Gods are petty motherfuckers, and they wanted some shit built but didn't want to pay the dude doing the building. So they were like "okay, if you can get it done in X amount of time, we'll pay you, but if you can't manage it NO MATTER WHAT, this whole thing is free." And they made sure he had NO help, nothing but him, his materials, and his Very Good Horsey. And this guy and his horse were fucking BAMFs. So it was looking like he was definitely gonna get it done in time, and Odin was like "nah, fuck that shit. I'm cheap." and so he sent Loki to distract the work horse. Loki transformed into a mare and lured the horse away, got fucked, got pregnant, gave birth to the 8-legged (for some reason) horse Sleipnir. Odin rides Loki's son into battle. Um. Kay.
So Loki helped Odin be a petty mf, and Odin got himself a new pet out of the deal.
Oh, also, because he's smart af and a shapeshifter and a master magician and genderfluid, Loki "fails" to fit the super fucking toxic and narrow Norse/Aesir view of "a real man". He prefers intelligence and manipulation to solve problems rather than violence, he's not afraid to behave like a clown if it gets shit done, and that grosses the Aesir out, so they constantly ridicule him for being "less than a man".
Loki is the God of the outcast and the misunderstood. The marginalized people from all walks of life. He is the God of the LGBT community. In modern terms, he's pansexual, polyamorous (married to Sigyn and they are deeply in love, but boy gets around and I've never seen any indication that Sigyn gives a shit) and genderfluid.
Okay. Focus, Ali. This is part of why I usually post multiple rants instead of one big long one XD The longer I ramble, the more I get sidetracked and forget the original point.
So. Loki's awesome, and being a Trickster, is powerful as all fucking hell. There's not much he can't do.
And now we come to Thor (the movie, not the deity). Loki's there! 24-year-old Ali is spazzing! All is right with the world!
Oh lord, they've actually done him justice?! Amazing! He's complex and nuanced and emotional, just like the real Loki! I loved this movie. Loved. It. The climactic thing with trying to blow up Jotunheim never really made much sense to me until someone made an excellent point the other day about Loki being raised in a racist society that was racist against his own race, he just didn't know it yet, poor child. Baby Thor was never corrected when he pledged to commit mass genocide, so Baby Loki probably absorbed the lesson then that Jotunns=evil and killing them all will win his father's love. Anyway, 2011 Loki was a beautiful, heartbreaking portrayal of the God I've loved all my life and spent 24 years longing to see depicted on the big screen.
Then The Avengers happened. And I saw another Loki very close to Norse mythology - mainly, how he's treated. In the beginning of the movie, he's sick, exhausted, and in pain. He can hardly stand, he stumbles and needs help when he walks. He was very obviously tortured, and the sickly blue light of the scepter's control is in his eyes. That gets less and less pronounced as the movie goes on, showing Loki working his way free of it, but in the beginning, he's a mess. Because he was tortured and used by Thanos. Marvel directly confirmed this, and that he was under the scepter's/Mind Stone's control. Loki's actions are not his own in The Avengers. He's under both threat and Thanos' direct control. The movie actually shows The Other directly threatening him to keep him on task, because this is not Loki's plan. It is not what he wants. He's being used and villainized... Just like in real life. It hurt to see this done to him, but the accuracy was too beautiful to ignore.
Thor: The Dark World comes out. I've heard people complain that this movie is the weak link in the Thor trilogy. I disagree. I think that's Ragnarok, for a bunch of reasons, but we'll get there. (And for the record, I loved Ragnarok, too. It was a funny movie. Infinity War and the Disney+ series are the only portrayals of Loki in the MCU that I truly fucking hated.) Anyway, good, fun movie. Had its faults, as all movies do, but it still followed Loki's real-life arc in a way. How? By having Loki dragged back to Asgard in chains and imprisoned underground. Again, not super happy that this happened to my love, and having to see it on screen was painful, but at least in the MCU he's not chained to a rock with venom dripping on his face for eternity, so there's that. (poor Sigyn. how tired do her arms get, holding up that bowl? best wife ever, amirite?)
In TDW, we're shown Loki's love for Frigga, who favored him and taught him magic as a child. We see his bravado; his attempts to mask his true feelings, especially grief. We see him slowly coming back to himself after the events of The Avengers, and slowly mending his relationship with his brother. He accepts that Odin will likely never love him, but Thor just might, because they were close when they were young. "I didn't do it for him." No, no my sweet, you did it for your brother, and a little out of guilt for what happened to your mother.
At the end, Loki fakes his death and escapes, taking the throne, and I have mixed feelings about this. Not the writer's choices here; I love that completely! A natural progression in Loki's story. But my joy is tainted by how closely they're following the Eddas now. Because Loki's escape from his prison heralds the beginning of Ragnarok. And Loki will die in Ragnarok. I don't want to see that play out in front of my face. I won't be able to handle the grief (spoiler alert! IW broke me. I almost walked out of the theater. Loki's death was legitimately fucking traumatic for me. I don't even care how pathetic that is. That grief was real, it was intense, and I still shake and cry when I think about it.)
Marvel announces that Thor 3 will be called Ragnarok. The internet treats this as a shocking revelation. I roll my eyes and mumble "duh" to myself and move on XD
Then they say Ragnarok will be a buddy comedy. I throw up a little in my mouth and no longer want to live on this planet. If they're going to make something called Ragnarok, could they at least treat it with even a fraction of the respect they've shown these characters thusfar? Jfc. I mean, I'll see it anyway, because I'm a whore for Tom Hiddleston lol. But come on, people!
I hated that they made Hel the long-lost older sister and Fenrir her fucking pet/attack dog. Those are my favorites of Loki's children! Hel is such an incredible badass that the early Christians named their dimension of eternal torture after her! They were terrified of her, to the point of naming the place that terrified them most after her. That's awesome! And Fenrir's just the best. I love wolves. Those two details, and Odin's retcon of "we're not Gods! ...lol, except your sister. she's totally a Goddess. and def gonna kill literally everything, so... good luck! byyyeeeee" pissed me off royally.
The rest was great. I genuinely liked this movie. Still do. And they finally used The Immigrant Song! That was pretty cool. If they'd thrown in Bring the Hammer Down and Thunderstruck, I might've called this movie perfect. XD
I wasn't totally in love with their portrayal of Loki in Ragnarok. Yes, the falling for 30 minutes line was funny, as was "I have to get off this planet" and "YES! That's how it feels!" And "Get Help" was funny as hell. But also, like... There is no way Loki would have been the dumb one in that first encounter with Hela. Also, he can teleport and project copies of himself and shit, so... He would not have been that desperate to go straight back to Asgard and bring her right along with them. Loki's not stupid. But whatever. Movie's gotta movie.
What I did love was seeing the slow mending of his relationship with Thor continuing, and the badass fighting on the bridge. I also loved that, like Real Loki, Movie Loki helped when help was needed, was quick and clever, and while he was carrying out the main plan, he was also planning ahead and grabbing the Tesseract. Yes, that drew Thanos right to them, but that's a whole other thing. Loki never would have left that thing on Asgard to be destroyed or lost.
And now Infinity War. Hooooly fucking shit. You know what? No. I'm not going into this. He was killed, years of character growth were erased forever, my heart fucking shattered. The end.
Endgame. IW hurt me so bad I didn't see Endgame until this year. I actually watched Civil War first (for context: I had actively avoided all Cap movies until this year because I fucking hate Steve Rogers. I find him insufferable. Did not realize what I was denying myself until I watched CW and finally saw the charms of Bucky. When he appeared in IW, I was so lost. XD I was like "...who dis? Murder Jesus?" also I just... didn't care. I was numb by then from crying through most of the movie over Loki)
So, anyway. Endgame. Loki picks up the Tesseract in alternate 2012, escapes, fans go "yay! he didn't actually die!" I go "yes he fucking did. Five years of his life, gone. Five years of growth and change, erased. Loki is dead. This will not be the same."
I was more right than I could have predicted. Now we come to the point of this rant. Sorry it took so long, but you were warned lol.
The Loki series makes me so angry I actually get sick to my stomach. It was fucking TRASH. When I praised Marvel for following Norse mythology so faithfully earlier? Yeah. I DID NOT MEAN TREAT HIM THE WAY THE OTHER GODS DID. I did not mean paint him as a pitiful clown, a joke, a caricature of who he truly was, with his pain and suffering played for LAUGHS.
This is supposed to be 2012 Loki, newly freed from Thanos' control. The Loki we saw in the beginning of TDW - snarky, exhausted, nihilistic. The Loki who rolled his eyes and said "get on with it" expecting to be killed.
The bumbling clown flipping on a dime from posturing to calling himself weak is not 2012 Loki. That is not ANY Loki. That is Tom Hiddleston in a black wig doing what he's told by a shitty writer who had no fucking idea what he was doing and was salty about his (bad) original script (for something totally fucking unrelated) getting killed.
In Episode 1, Loki is mocked, imprisoned, stripped against his will, tormented, belittled, and given a flippant summary of all the trauma Actual MCU Loki suffered that this one skipped out on, with no context, no acknowledgement of the trauma he's already lived quite fucking recently, and with the narrative twisted to not only erase all the abuse he's suffered, but to make it all his fault. And this is supposed to make him want to help these people?
And worse, IT FUCKING WORKS. WHAT?! I CAN'T- FUCKING WHAT?! Remember when I said LOKI IS NOT FUCKING STUPID?! So why is he STUPID?
Episode 2, he's a child. Mentally, this Loki is a fucking child. Now we've erased all the growth and development of his entire adult life. He's dopey, impatient, impulsive, desperate for a pat on the back and actually shows it. Yes, abused and neglected children crave the positive attention we never received, and we often grow up to be a bit emotionally stunted. But not all of us, and not Loki. Not as we've seen him EVER in the rest of the MCU. Playful and a bit callous at times? Absolutely! But not a big dumb fucking puppy.
Episode 3, a ray of hope, despite Sylvie! (I hate Sylvie) Loki casually admits he's pan/bi; labels never come up, but he admits to being with both men and women! He sings! Not really relevant to whether I approve of his portrayal or not lol but Tom has a beautiful voice, Norwegian ("Asgardian" lol) is a gorgeous, entrancing language, and I could watch that one bit on loop for eternity and never get bored. And then, finally, we see a glimpse - a glimpse - of Loki's power! He stops a falling building and pushes it right back up! Are we finally getting to see what he can really do? Will the next episode bring us Loki in all his glory?
Nope. 4 and 5 we see him mocked and pushed around and utterly irrelevant. Again. We see tiny reflections of what he could maybe theoretically do in other random Loki variants, but the "main" (lawl. main. it was the Sylvie and Mobius show. Loki was never the main anything.) Loki? Nothing. He wears his heart on his sleeve for no reason, bonds with the man who imprisoned, taunted, and gaslit him, is killed, and continues to be a moron and a joke. Always the clown. Always the dumb one. The one with the bad ideas. The inferior Loki.
Don't even get me started on that finale. I can't. This already took so much out of me. Fuck Marvel. Fuck this fucking show. I just... I'm done.
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vikingqueer · 3 years
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music recommendations because i have some thoughts™
i don't wanna be that person who's like "my music taste is so weird lol" but i find that very often most of my friends don't really care for the music i like so i thought i'd just make a long ass post about it on tumblr instead. Fair warning, I'm very passionate about MIKA and The Mechanisms and so this very quickly got VERY long because it is part of my ongoing campaign to convince people to listen to mika and the mechs.
1) MIKA in general, but especially My Name Is Michael Holbrook (2019) and No Place In Heaven (2015) (especially the Deluxe version!!)
MIKA is a kind of British singer (half Lebanese, grew up in France blabla), and you probably know him for Grace Kelly and Relax, Take It Easy from his first album Life In Cartoon Motion from 2007. He writes a lot of FUN music, interspersed with the occasional slightly sadder song, especially when looking at an album like No Place In Heaven, which contains a lot of songs with gay themes, resulting in some songs that are just a little bit ouch. He's originally classically trained and has a frankly RIDICULOUS range and idk he just writes very good pop music. Also I have so much respect for that time he talked about how a lot of pop is very fake, with like expensive cars and stilettos and mini skirts in the snow and said "Because I walk down the street, and I don't see any of that. I see fat women and gay men. I don't know... That's real". He's written 5 albums; My Name Is Michael Holbrook (2019), No Place In Heaven (2015), The Origin Of Love (2012), The Boy Who Knew Too Much (2009), and Life In Cartoon Motion (2007).
For starters, I recommend listening to Last Party, Origin Of Love, Grace Kelly, Blame It On The Girls, Blue, Happy Ending, Pick Up Off The Floor, Last Party, Underwater, Tomorrow and Tiny Love (yes this is a long list but i REALLY love MIKA). If you want a slightly broader palette that's not just my favourites, I recommend the Mika starter pack on spotify.
2) The Mechanisms. I warn you. I am making this a thing. I have been obsessed with the mechs since last march.
Boy, where to start? The Mechanisms were a British 9 member space pirate story-telling cabaret that "died" in January 2020. They rewrite songs to fit retellings of various stories. I don't even know what genre I'd describe them as, but probably folk but steam-punk?? Their 4 "main" albums are concept albums, and I honestly just recommend listening to the from beginning to end in chronological order. A good way to get into the mechs is also to listen to UDAD and then watching the live show on youtube or alternately try giving Death To The Mechanisms a listen, to get good quality live show audio of TBI and various other stuff. Also, it was streamed on YouTube and someone combined the footage with the album audio and it rocks. Really, I think the mechs' best selling points are honestly just their concept albums:
Once Upon a Time (In Space) Their first album from 2012. I'd say this is the most "easily digestible" for the general public, since it's a retelling of various fairytales. So, what if Old King Cole was in fact not merry, but rather a cold-blooded dictator, intent on colonising as much of the galaxy as possible. What if Snow White was a general, looking to avenge what King Cole did to her sister, Rose. What if Cinderella was to be wedded to Rose the day that King Cole attacked in order to kidnap Rose? But y'know, In Space and also like every other mechs album it's a beautiful tragedy. Fave songs are Old King Cole, Pump Shanty, and No Happy Ending.
Ulysses Dies at Dawn You guessed it, it's a story about Odysseus, or Ulysses because I guess Ulysses is easier to rhyme or fit in the meter or something, idk. Ulysses is a war hero of unknown gender who is said to keep something that could take down the corrupt Olympians, meanest families in the City, in a vault to which only they know the passcode. Oedipus, Heracles, Orpheus, and Ariadne have been hired by Hades, who happens to be The Mechs' quartermaster Ashes O'Reilly, to get into Ulysses' vault. I didn't care much for udad at first, but honestly it's got some real bangers and the story is really good. UDAD weirdly stands out as the only of the concept albums to not feature any gay relationships, per se. Fave songs are Riddle of the Sphinx, Favoured Son, and Underworld Blues.
High Noon over Camelot This is my favourite mehcs album. So basically, this is Arthurian legend, but it's a space western and Jonny D'Ville does a bad southern accent. This is the story of the cowboy lovers Arther, Lancelot, and Guinevere searching for the Galfridian Restricted Acces Interface Login, or GRAIL, in order to stop their world from falling into the sun. Meanwhile, Mordred and Gawaine are ruling Camelot, and Mordred has convinced Gawaine to try to establish peace with the Saxons by whom Mordred was raised, but Gawaine hates viciously. If you love getting your heart broken and songs by a fucking off the rails batshit preacher I HIGHLY recommend hnoc. Fave songs are Gunfight at the Dolorous Guard, Blood and Whiskey, and Once and Future King. Honorary mention for Hellfire because it awakens something animalistic in me.
The Bifrost Incident TBI is the frankly only good adaptation of norse mythology I've ever known of, and I say that as Dane who was literally forced to learn things about norse mythology in school because it's my heritage or whatever. I've been listening to TBI a lot lately because it's VERY good. It's definitely the most refined of the mechs' albums (because it's the newest) but also I just love a little bit of cosmic horror. 80 years ago, Odin, the All-Mother, ruler of Asgaard, launched a train through the wormhole Bifrost that would reduce the travel between Asgaard and Midgaard from 3 months to 3 days, but things didn't go quite as planned. Lyfrassir Edda of the New Midgaard Transport Police is trying to solve the case of why suddenly the train has arrived 80 years late; to figure out whether it was accident or maybe it was sabotaged by Loki, who was allegedly sentence to death her murder of Baldur, by the Midgaardian resistance led by Loki's wife Sigyn, or maybe by Thor, who was to take over after Odin, and who holds quite the grudge because he used to be a friend of Loki's. You might've heard the song Thor from this album, it's apparently quite popular. Fave songs are Loki, Ragnarok III: Strange Meeting, and Ragnarok V: End of The Line. Yet again an honorary mention: Red Signal because while Lovecraft was a bitch, his invocations are fucking RAW.
Basically, the Mechanisms do all of their performances in character as captain first mate Jonny D'Ville, quartermaster Ashes O'Reilly, pilot DrumBot Brian, master-at-arms Gunpowder Tim, science officer Raphaella la Cognizi, doctor Baron Marius Von Raum (neither a baron, nor a doctor), archivist Ivy Alexandria, engineer Nastya Rasputina, and The Toy Soldier, who is, as usual, present. You can find very obscure lore about the crew of the Aurora here, tidbits on Tales To Be Told and TTBT Vol. 2, such as One Eyed Jacks, The Ignominious Demise of Dr. Pilchard, Gunpowder Tim vs. The Moon Kaiser, Lucky Sevens, and Lost in the Cosmos.
If you feel like listening to a full 40-50 minute album to find out if you like a band is a bit much, I recommend listening to one of the mini stories Alice, Swan Song, or Frankenstein, which are about 12, 5 and 9:30 minutes respectively.
3) The Amazing Devil You know that guy who played Jaskier in the Witcher? I got into The Amazing Devil from spotify recommending them because I listened to the mechs, and apparently Joey Batey from The Amazing Devil is the same Joey Batey who was in the Witcher. Both him and Madeleine Hyland are VERY talented singers and songwriters and their second album The Horror and the Wild makes me go out into the forest and SCREAM. I listened to it on repeat for like a month straight. I guess they'd also be considered folk, but like. New Folk. Also yes, this is another British artist, I don't know why I'm like this. I've never really gotten that into their first album, Love Run, but King slaps. As I understand there's this whole lore about the Blue Furious Boy and Scarlet Scarlet, Joey and Madeleine respectively, but unlike the Mechanisms it's actually possible to find out things about the actual real people and harder to find the obscure lore? I'm open for people to please help me. Fave songs are The Horror and the Wild, Farewell Wanderlust, and That Unwanted Animal, which is literally a third of their second album, but again. I haven't really listened to Love Run that much, and I just LOVE the harmonies on THATW. (also im gay and dramatic leave me alone)
4) dodie I have so much love for this woman. Like many others, I first knew dodie as doddleoddle on youtube. I think I first stumbled across her in probably 2015, because I distinctly already knew her before she released her first EP Sick of Losing Soulmates in 2016. I think I watched probably every video she's ever made in the span of a few weeks. I just loved her quiet sound and was absolutely HOOKED. Also she's actually the reason I got into MIKA originally, so thanks for that. Dodie just realeased her first album Build A Problem (in addition to her three EP's; the one mentioned above, You, and Human) and it slaps. Yes dodie is also British Fave songs are probably Monster, Rainbow, and In The Middle.
5) Cladia Boleyn Unfortunately, Claudia Boleyn only has three singles and that's it. She's been making content on youtube for quite a while, and that's how I first discovered her. I don't know what genre her music is, but I like it. The songs are Celesta, George, and Mother Maiden Crone, of which the latter is my favourite. I'm not saying Claudia Boleyn invented women in 2017 when she released Mother Maiden Crone, but she did. Also you guessed it, Claudia Boleyn is British.
6) Hozier I'm not about to tell you about Hozier. You know who he is. Listen to Nina Cried Power, Angel Of Small Death & The Codeine Scene, and Shrike. Also Hozier isn't stricly British in that he is definitely from A British Isle, but Ireland is not part of the UK. Give me a break.
7) Oh Land Oh Land IS DANISH. I like her early music best, because I'm not that into the electronic sound. I guess Oh Land is just you regular old pop, but with the occasional weird vibe? Oddly enough, I like her first album Fauna best. Unfortunately I haven't really listened to her newest album Family Tree much, but it seems good? Fave songs are Frostbite, Love You Better and Family Tree. I cried on the bus, first time I listened to the Danish version of Love You Better, Elsker Dig Mer because my mother tongue always just hits harder. Also Frostbite is Oh Land doing a duet with herself which is pretty cool.
8) Oysterband This is a live recommendation. I mean they're a decent folk band and all, but they're a fucking experience live. If you like folk and you ever get the opportunity to see Oysterband live, do it. Unfortunately, yes. They are British. Either way, they are incredible on a scene and I think they deserve a mention for that.
9) Ben Platt Honestly don't know much about this guy, but he's not British and he was in Dear Evan Hansen. He released an album in 2019, Sing To Me Instead, and I just think it's a good album, there isn't really not much more to it. Fave songs are Grow As We Go, Bad Habit, and In Case You Don't Live Forever.
and thats all for now. this has been a ramble. shout out to you if you actually read all of this, especially the mechs part.
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rokkr-witness · 4 years
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Primordial Thurs: Ymir and Surtr
So this project started because quarantine has been keeping my kindred apart, so we’ve been doing zoom meetings to discuss some interesting themes in Norse Mythology. I haven’t cited all the references used for these but I hope I got enough of them. This particular work is going to talk about several important concepts, them being Chaos, creation and Destruction and how those concepts are represented by the Primordial Thurs Ymir and Surtr. I will say I’m not a scholar, and a good portion of this is UPG, take it or leave it.
Ymir
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Ymir is the first of the giants in Norse mythology, he dates back to the primal times before Odin, Thor or any other God existed. He is created when the fires of muspelheim meet the ice and rime of niflheim in the ginnungagap, the void. He’s representative of the first shared Ancestor, but also the first “consciousness” to come out of Chaos. When referring to consciousness we do not mean sentience here. Thematically, Ymir is the personification of the chaos before creation, which is also depicted as the impersonal void of Ginnungagap. Both Ymir and Ginnungagap are ways of talking about limitless potential that isn’t actualized, that hasn’t yet become the particular things that we find in the world around us. His name means Screamer so connect that to birth, not just the birth of the womb but also the birth of the universe (the Big Bang).
According to Snorri Sturlson Ymir was suckled by the cow Audhumla for his nourishment, but whether this is a Christian literary device or not has been debated. It may be that Audhumla, who also licked Buri out of the ice, was introduced as a way to present a dichotomy in the myths, that being Buri, Ancestor of Odin as Good and lawful, and Ymir, primordial chaos as inherently Bad and therefore deserving of destruction. But we’ll get to that.
When he slept, several other giants were conceived asexually in Ymir’s hermaphroditic body, and spontaneously sprang from his legs and the sweat from his armpits. A man and a woman grew under his arms and a six headed son under his foot. Þrúðgelmir is the name of one son, who’s son Bergelmir is the only one to survive the ocean of Ymir’s blood after his slaying. This is accounted in the book Gylfaginning in the Prose Edda.
There is some suggestion that Buri might have been one of the beings created from Ymir’s body, and by extension so Bor and Bestla, the parents of Odin. I actually prefer this interpretation, because it removes the dichotomy of jotun = bad because they are inherently evil and the descendents of Buri, imposed(cultivated) order, are inherently good. With all beings originating from Ymir you have one source for creation and one "race" for lack of a better term, and it changes the designation of Aesir, Jotunar and vanir to a more tribal understanding, that being the family or group we choose to belong to.
Anyway, Ymir’s son Þrúðgelmir appears in the poem Vafþrúðnismál from the Poetic Edda. When Odin (speaking under the assumed name Gagnrad) asks who was the eldest of the Æsir or of the giants in bygone days, Vafþrúðnir answers:
"Uncountable winters before the earth was made,
then Bergelmir was born,
Thrudgelmir was his father,
and Aurgelmir his grandfather."
—Vafþrúðnismá
Odin, Vili and Ve, The divine brothers then slew Ymir and fashioned the realm of midgard from his corpse. His flesh made the earth, his bones the mountains, his blood the oceans and his brains the clouds. It is also during this creation that the Gods establish Utangard and Innangard by giving the giants the shoreline and using Ymir's eyelashes to build a wall between the rest of the Cosmos and Midgard- the realm of future humans. Through this the tribe of the Aesir, imposes the order necessary for life(as we understand it) to thrive and begins the push and pull between that order and the primordial chaos of the Giants. A push and Pull that ultimately culminates in Ragnarok.
Surtr
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And that brings us to Surtr. If Ymir can be considered your primordial Rime, or Frost Thurs, then Surtr is your primordial Fire Thurs. Likewise if Ymir represents the chaos of creation, Surtr represents the Chaos of destruction and the completion of the natural life cycle. Because he is associated with the south (Muspelheim), Surtr is then associated with the idea of fire, which is common in Icelandic Norse mythology. It can be argued that the figure of Surtr was, at the very least, a local figure given over to Iceland’s relatively tumultuous volcanic geography that was incorporated in part into the larger Nordic cycle by Icelandic-born writers, but this theory has never been proven.
His Consort is Sinmora. Less is known of this figure than Surtr himself, save she possesses/is the guardian of the legendary weapon Lævateinn*. Some theories suggest Sinmora as the Same entity as Hela, but personally I find they hold very little water.
Surtr is demonized as a malevolent antagonist to the gods, positioning himself against the world as a whole. And, I want to dispense with the idea, immediately, that Surtr is inherently demonic or otherwise evil. I cannot emphasize this enough.
“If we associate Surtr with the Icelandic writers, an etin with an affinity towards fire and the volcanic landscape of their homeland, then it is easy to see how they could put a greater derogatory emphasis on the being. After all, fire is well attested to being both a savior and a potential threat to civilization, ” Marc, Axe and Plough
It is my understanding that Surtr is in Muspelheim before the worlds are created. Which makes him the perhaps oldest entity in the Northern Pantheon. (excluding some ideas that the Void itself is an entity) Surtr is the lord of Múspellsheimr and the leader of that realm. We do not know when he became the lord of Múspellsheimr, so it is fair to assume that he has always been. That Surtr has always been. This is supported by Muspell, the primordial world of fire, as the primary impetus for the creation of the universe. The interactions between Muspell and Niflheim, within the great void of Ginnungagap was what birthed the universe (Faulkes 1995: 10).
This Idea is one we see regularly, paths of Destruction as paths to rebirth, creation. It is possible that Surtr is a regular arbiter for that rebirth, and has been through the founding and destruction of several universes. What can be gathered from this is something we see regularly in Northern Traditions, the understanding that though things die, life continues, renews and grows.
Natural science does a good way of illustrating Surtr’s importance in this example.
Take Andisols for instance. These are soils that form on volcanic ash and contain volcanic glass and compounds of elements such as Fe, Al and Si. (Ions of those elements, which are released by leaching and weathering of volcanic rock, can form complexes with organic matter; in addition to an andisol’s ability to retain water, this can make for very fertile growing conditions, after it has had the chance to weather, break down and release it´s nutrients. Eruption(destruction), break down, and then growth.
Now let's stop right there for a second. There is very little information on Surtr however there are some conclusions that can be drawn with some mental gymnastics about his role at ragnarok. His role at Ragnarok is to do battle with Freyr, be victorious and cover all the realms with Fire. After Balder will return from Hel and a new cycle of life will begin.
If you look at Ymir as the beginning and Surtr as the end, and both of them in a system of chaotic creation and destruction, then Freyr, the vanic god of fertility and agriculture( one of the ways in which humans mastered the natural world), is the obvious Foe. Freyr represents creation in the system created by Odin Vili and Ve after Ymir’s slaying. To return to the primordial creation you have to remove it, you have to remove everything. And Surtr is the obvious answer to that, an ever present being that sees the same cycle completed over and over. I’d even argue that Balders return to the world of the living is christianized to reflect Christ and maybe a better ending to ragnarok is simply to return to the natural state of the cosmos, Muspelheim in the south, Niflheim in the north and the Void between them.
Conclusion
So i Started this with very little information and so have had to draw a lot of my own conclusions. Some heathens who have also written on this subject, like raven kaldera and his associates, i think over humanize Surtr and by extension Ymir in ways to make the entities more approachable. but i see that for myself as sort of counterproductive. Others like Ljossal Lodursson idk, i just don’t find that his conclusions hold up to my interpretations, that is I don’t support Audumla as an essential part of the cosmos, but that’s my UPG and so i think it’s important to remind everyone that your UPG is yours and you’ll draw your own conclusions through journey work and research. My dissatisfaction with others who follow the path of the jotnar is not a reflection of the validity or quality of their works.
How you choose to incorporate any deity is really up to you.
For myself, I like Ymir for organic inspiration, but I also just sort of feel close to him as I'm a human living on earth, obsessed with the way the universe is held together. If you accept the big bang theory as the scientific beginning of the universe there is a place you can drop ymir in there. Ymir, Screamer, Bang...you get it. I have found if you stare too long at Ymir you sorta fall in and getting out again is rather difficult. I began to feel very unconnected to other parts of my faith, including Loki the longer i stayed trying to connect to Ymir.
Surtr is sorta similar for me. When you want to start over with a clean slate he'd be the one to help you, or rather his is the power you would seek since I'm not certain I could see something omnipresent and everlasting, that is the personification of ultimate entropy as being able to offer conscious help.
I don’t think of them as meeting people or interacting with persons. Try seeing them as simply being, events or states. Powers, elements, eldritch entities beyond sentient consciousness. Like some kind of Norse Jellyfish or giant space Apatosaurus. They just are, they have functions and they are or have fulfilled them.
***
*Lævateinn
Lævateinn is etymologically considered to be a kenning for a sword (Old Norse "damage twig"[1]
Henry Adams Bellows translation:
41. Svipdag spake:
"Now answer me, Fjolsvith, the question I ask,
For now the truth would I know:
What weapon can send Vithofnir to seek
The house of Hel below?"
42. Fjolsvith spake:
"Lævatein is there, that Lopt with runes
Once made by the doors of death;
In Lægjarn's chest by Sinmora lies it,
And nine locks fasten it firm."[3]
Bellows comments that Lægjarn means "Lover of Ill" and, like the name Lopt, refers to Loki
There is some suggestion that the weapon may be the misteltoe used to kill Baldur but this theory has never been proven.
More Reading
Arith Hargar- he has an excellent video on Ymir
http://www.northernpaganism.org/
a site with lots of information on various Jotnar as well as digital shrines
Raven Kaldera's Jotunbok
https://axeandplough.com/
Marc has several articles of interest- including one of the few written about Surtr
Ljossal Lodursson has written several texts on Thursatru that offer unique perspectives
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thevagueambition · 3 years
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To disagree somewhat with my old meta about Solas as a Loki figure, while in terms of position in the pantheon and the relationship between Solas and Mythal, Solas is definitely Loki and the Solas and Mythal relation is the Loki and Odin relation, in many ways Solas is actually way more Odin than he is Loki
I'm a firm believer in the "Solas was a spirit of wisdom/pride demon originally" theory and this fits very nicely with Odin's domain over wisdom and knowledge. The way he approves whenever the inquisitor asks investigation questions reminds me of the way Odin would challenge people on their knowledge while in the guise of an unimportant figure
Furthermore, the duality of Solas as both this very controlled person we meet, who values knowledge for its own sake, and to some extent also the person from the more credible stories of Fen'Harel and the death of Felassan, strike me as similar to Odin's duality as a god of wisdom as well as a god of madness and berserkers.
Solas' role as a leader of people, both in the backstory and in the present of Trespasser and DA4, maps much better to Odin than to Loki. Loki is often portrayed as leading Ragnarok in modern adaptations and I do think that idea has similarities to Solas rebellion as well as his role in modern Thedas, although iirc I don't think the idea of him as the leader of Ragnarok is one that appears in the Eddas. Either way, Odin is certainly far more associated with both leadership and the way of pretending to have less power or knowledge than he does that Solas also engages in.
On the wolf thing, it's also worth noting that Odin is at least as associated with wolves as Loki is – Loki's association is through his son Fenrir, while Odin personally owns the wolves Geri and Freki and was not just the god of berserkers but ulfhednar as well (beserkers = bear warriors, ulfhednar = wolf warriors).
Of course Flemythal also incorporates both traits from Odin and Loki and the two gods do have a lot of similarities anyway so that's natural
But I do think for Solas' personality and behaviour, Odin is actually the better parallel than Loki is, while in terms of societal position and narrative role it's still my opinion tha Solas parallels Loki more.
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ragnarok2020 · 4 years
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Norse Gods VS the Kids/people of Edda Part 2
The original post is on my main account @lilyderpandherfandomworld 
But this is the updated theory where I have thought of it more. Some opinions are the same tho.
Please do Add any of the other characters with who you think they are or if you got any comments about the current theory :)
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Magne - Magni (son of Þór, with his father's abilities) / Or He is just Þór reincarnated with a similar name to the Norse gods son
Laurits - Loki (is seriously mischievous and chaotic. Plays tricks on Magne which is what Loki keeps doing to Þór. He is also hinted at to be the son of Vidar (a Jötun) like Loki is)
Turid - Laufey (Loki’s mother) (þór has no mention of a mother in Snorra-Edda other than just Earth and his father is Óðinn) / Or Fjörgyn (Fjörgyn means Jörð or "earth" and as stated before “earth” is described as the mother of Thor) (could be both)
Gry - Sif (wife of Þór) (Emma Bones mentions in the behind the scenes videos that Gry actually likes Magne a lot but hasn’t come to that conclusion in her head yet)
Oscar - Heimdallur (MAN, that boy hears all the gossip)
Vidar - Fárbauti (Father of Loki) / Útgarðar-Loki (The jötun who challenges þór to some trials if Þór wants to get his hammer back)
Ran - Elli (a lady jötun that was one part of the challenges þór had to endure. basically the physical interpretation of age) (I am very uncertain about her but there is a goddess name Rán, but I highly doubt she is her even tho she has a husband that is a jötun)
Fjor -  Fjölvar is a being in Norse mythology, possibly a giant, with whom Odin spent time with fighting and seducing women
Saxa - uncertain about who she is in Norse (She couldn’t possibly be Járnsaxa because she is meant to be Magni’s mother in Norse)
Iman -  Iðunn (The one who gives the gods youth with her apples.) (I am not certain tho we haven’t had enough stuff with her to know who she is and who she is to represent)
Isolde - Baldur (Her death caused the spiral down into the fight between gods and Jötuns. In Norse, Baldurs Death is the beginning of Ragnarök. Also, Laurits is an indirect cause of Isolde’s death and in Norse, Loki is a direct cause of Baldurs death)
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kattegat-kittycat · 4 years
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Fates Entwined - IV: Common Ground
Chapter I
Chapter II
Chapter III
After your former clan was brutally murdered, you agree to an arranged marriage with Ivar to keep your social status. You may not always see eye to eye and sometimes even find yourself on different sides of one war or the other, but somehow you can never escape each other no matter how much you try to forget, deny and run. Somehow you always end up in each other’s faces. Sometimes quite literally.
A/N: There are a couple of reasons why Ivar chooses the nickname “Sif”: first of all, it fits the compliment he is trying to give you in that scene as Sif is described in the prose Edda as the lovliest woman of all. Secondly, Sif is also called a prophetess and Ivar slowly starts to realise that you gained some inside into the designs of the Gods when the two of you got married. And thirdly, there is a dispute if Sif was faithful to Thor or if she had some wild adventures with Loki and maybe even Odin. And let’s be honest, in Vikings, nobody would be too surprised if a female character was being unfaithful with her husband’s brother (hey, that actually happened in the series) or his father (oh, wait, that happened as well :D ), and Ivar really doesn’t trust anyone (but who can blame the guy for that growing up in the environment he did).
Also, thanks to a @youbloodymadgenius for pointing out the reading-mistake in the part before, that happens when you leave in things to correct them later and then don’t proofread :D Some anachronisms are bound to happen, but that one was not supposed to turn up.
‘Nuff said. Here’s some cheesy everyday life. It’s probably going to be the last cutesy chapter for a while.
Open up to me And soon our worlds become one Spread your wings to me In time we end up high
Entwine - Caught By Desire
I came to like Ivar; he was difficult at times and open and honest at others. Sometimes he got irritated easily, sometimes he was the picture of patience. But we talked a lot and got to know each other a litte better over the week following our wedding. Ivar was busy trying to convince Björn to take him with him to the Mediterranean, stubbornly asking every single day, but always receiving the same answer. Björn didn’t want Ivar to be killed and he would not be able to take care of Ivar during a raid. Needless to say, it frustrated Ivar to no end.
I sat on our bed, mending one of Ivar’s tunics, when he crawled into the room. I could see his frustration, anger, and exhaustion in the set of his shoulders and jaw and I inwardly gave a sigh. When he had reached the bed, he looked up at me, before he dragged himself onto its edge.
“I cannot believe him. I cannot understand why my own brother will not take me with him. It is my right, my duty as a son of Ragnar Lothbrok to go carry his name into the world. It’s selfish of Björn not to take me.”
He did not look at me, but I knew he wanted me to support his argument and agree with him, but…
“I disagree.”
His head whipped around almost instantly, but his words came slowly. “What did you just say?”
“I said, I do not agree. I do not think Björn is selfish. I know, you are a good fighter, but you will always be put on the spot. You cannot outrun a trap, you cannot keep up with with a charging army. You would be the oak leaf on Björn’s Ironside.”
“The oak leaf?” he asked.
“Do you not know the story of Siegfried, who slayed a dragon and bathed in its blood, which made his skin impenetrable? The leaf of an oak had fallen on his back and stayed there during the bath, leaving one small spot untouched by the dragon’s blood. It was here that he could still be harmed.”
“You mean to say I am weak? I am a weakness?” I could feel the anger radiating off of him. He clenched his fists so hard, I was sure his nails were digging deep into his skin, so I took his hand and made him open his palms.
“No, I do not say that you are weak. I mean to say that he would have to take care of you, make sure nothing unforseen happens to you. And he cannot take that responsibility in battle.”
“He doesn’t need to!” Ivar’s blue eyes flashed violently, then like the sky before a vicious storm they started to darken. “Even if I should die, I would go to Valhalla, so I am happy to leave.”
“Maybe you could live with that, but others don’t.”
“What are you talking about?” he asked, angry and confused by my words.
“Your mother would be devestated should you die.”
“She knows she has to let me go. We have talked about this often. She knows.”
I put the tunic aside and looked at my hands. I felt my cheeks redden a little.
“I don’t want you to die. Not yet, anyway. I like you and I would very much like to get to know you better before you get to ride into Valhalla.” My voice was quiet, thin, insecure, and I hated the sound of it, but I had Ivar’s full attention now. He touched my chin and turned my face so I looked at him. In between the anger and the frustration, there was a small smile pulling at his lips.
“You like me? Your moody, irritable husband? The one you never meant to marry?”
He seemed amused and taken aback by that confession.
I nodded. “You forgot stubborn.” I added and he laughed.
“But why?” Ivar then asked, openly vulnerable. “I am a cripple. I am… as you said, stubborn. I am not always nice. And I do things you do not approve of. I want things you don’t understand.”
“That does not mean that I cannot like you. We are different, yes, but this is as much an opportunity for each of us to grow, as it is a challenge. You are irritable and headstrong, but you are honest and never tell me lies to spare my feelings. You have moments when you take care of me, small things you do without even noticing. The way you look at me now, like I matter and you can’t believe you matter to me.”
Now it was Ivar’s turn to blush, and he looked away for a moment.
“You might be the first person who has known me for a while, who doesn’t want to kill me.” He chuckled lightly. But then he turned serious. “You actually care about me so much that you want me to stay here with you?”
I smiled and gave a nod. “I want to get to know you better. I want to spend time with you. Did you not know that?”
He shook his head. “I was not aware of that. I thought I had only been a convenient solution to your problems.” His face was still in wonder, when he suddenly clapped his hands together. “So it is decided. I will not go with Björn to the Medeterranean.”
I looked at him delighted but surprised. “Really?”
“Really.” He took my hand in his and kissed my knuckles. Then his glance fell at the tunic in my lap.
“Is that my favourite tunic? What are you doing with it?”
“I’m mending it. You tore it last time you used it. Why is that such a surprise to you?”
“I guess I still need to understand that you actually like me. It’s…kind of a new concept to me.”
I smiled at my handsome husband. “Did you know that you have the most stunning eyes I have ever seen? You are beautiful, Ivar, you really are.” I said suddenly. Once I had started blurting out the truth, I couldn’t stop.
Now he grinned. “You think?”
I grinned back and nodded. Ivar moved a little closer and looked into my eyes. Then he stroked my cheek and gave me a chaste kiss, his weight resting on the other hand. I got a little caught up in his kiss and accidentally knocked his hand aside, causing him to crush into me, taking me down onto the bed with him. Both of us laughed and he rested comfortably over me. He looked at me for a moment then he brushed some stray strands of hair out of my face and kissed me again. This time still soft, but with some fervour to it. He sighed, when our lips parted and his gaze found my eyes fairly quickly.
“Have I told you, that you are beautiful, my Sif?”
I smiled at the nickname. Sif, Thor’s wife and the loveliest of all women. Then I gently shook my head no.
“Well, you are. You really are.”
*
We fell into a comfortable companionship over the next few weeks. I did chores to make everyday life a little easier on him, he was at his best behaviour whenever he was around me and sometimes brought me small gifts. Once, he even found me some blueberries because he had noticed that I liked them a lot. But still, I started feeling restless. I had been brought up a shield maiden, not a house wife and princess. I performed nothing but simple chores and did not get to train my combat skills at all. Day by day, I started getting more and more irritable and moody, but I couldn’t quite put my finger on the problem, as I was as happy as I could be in the life I was leading now. At least, I thought I was.
It had been a simple mistake. The servant girl had accidentally spilled some water on me during dinner, as she had been startled by Hvitserk pinching her buttocks. My reaction was far from appropriate; I had jumped up and slapped her across the face before I even realised what I was doing. Everybody around the table had gone quiet and all eyes were on me, so I blushed heavily and apologised for my behaviour. Funnily enough, I heard someone chuckle on the other side of the table.
“And what do you think is so funny, Sigurd?” I asked in a voice demanding an answer. He seemed surprised at first then he just shrugged.
“Nothing, Y/N. It’s nothing.”
I slowly started walking towards him and from the corner of my eyes, I could see Ivar shifting in his chair with anticipation. Normally, I didn’t mind Sigurd, but today, I was furious. I slammed my hand on the table beside his plate, after he had turned back to his meal, clearly unconcerned about my anger. Well, he did paid attention now.
“I will not ask you again, what did you think was so funny about that?”
He looked up at me and shook his head, still a smirk on his lips. Oh, how I would have loved to punch that grin straight off his face.
“I only said to Ubbe that you and Ivar are a match made by the Gods of War. You both have a temper that is hard to contain.” Sigurd explained.
I still stared at him. “And that made you laugh? Why?”
It was Ubbe who answered this time: “Well, I never thought I’d ever meet someone as moody and irritable as Ivar. Turns out, I was wrong. That made Sigurd laugh.”
I cocked an eyebrow. “So, my temper amuses you?” I asked, still angry.
Ubbe shrugged. “Well, that and the thought of Ivar getting a taste of his own medicine.”
“Normally, I am not prone to violent outbursts like this…” I said. How did the brothers get the impression, I was ill-tempered?
Hvitserk’s eyebrows almost shot up into his hairline at that. “Oh, but you are.” He chuckled. “At first, I thought you were only trying to impress our brother, but sometimes you even win against him in arguments. It is hilarious to see him beaten at his own game, to be quite honest.”
“I do not…”
Aslaug gave a tiny cough and then quietly added: “Well, you two are pretty opinionated and loud when it comes to voicing those opinions.”
Now Ubbe, Hvitserk and Sigurd were laughing.
“You and Ivar are shouting at each other all the time. The first couple of times, we thought we had to send in people to prevent you from going at each other’s throats.” Björn added to the conversation.
I looked at Ivar, who shook his head. “No, my dear brothers, no. We are not shouting at each other, we are simply discussing matters and war strategies and…”
Hvitserk rolled his eyes. “Last night, you were arguing about the shoes you left beneath the bed but were sure Y/N had forgotten outside. Last week, there was too much salt in your food. The day before, you had forgotten to get the yarn Y/N needed. I could go on for ages.” He was clearly trying to surpress his laughter.
“And let us not forget the time you carried Ivar over the threshold on your wedding night.” Björn snickered.
“Do you not even realise you are fighting most of the time?” Sigurd asked, astonished.
“We do not fight.” I said frowning deeply.
“We argue. But we get a little passionate at that.” Ivar added.
“We know why Ivar is frustrated, but where does your aggression come from, Y/N?” Hvitserk asked.
“Is it being married to the biggest jerk among Ragnar’s sons?” Ubbe grinned.
“Could have had us all, but had to marry little Ivar.” Hvitserk chuckled.
“Shut your mouths, you idiots, you have no idea who I am and what I had to do!” I realised that there were tears in my eyes.
“Well then, who are you?” Sigurd asked simply.
I looked at him angrily, but then I heard Ivar’s voice, softer than usual:
“What is it that makes you angry? What are you missing?” I could see his own insecurity in his face. We both knew, we hadn’t had sex until now. He was afraid that he couldn’t give me what I needed. He could not, but sex was not the problem.
I walked over to him and sat down at his side. “I…I miss my old life sometimes.” I told him quietly.
All eyes were on me, as I went on: “I miss training as a shield maiden. I miss fighting. I miss my family. I want my revenge. Some day.”
Ivar looked at me for a long time. Then he gave a nonchalant flick of his wrist.
“Then go train. Fight. But you cannot leave without my permission. If I stay here in Kattegat for you, you stay here for me.”
I gave a nod. That was a big concession he made, allowing me to train with the other shield maidens and warriors.  But still, I had lost a little more hope that I might one day exact my revenge.
A few hours later, we sat in our bed, not yet sleeping, when I realised, Ivar was looking at me intently, studying my facial expression.
“I never realised you were unhappy here in Kattegat.” He finally said solemnly.
My head turned quickly to him. “What?”
“I wasn’t aware you were unhappy.”
I shrugged and leaned into him. It came easily to me these days. “Neither did I. I thought I was quite happy. But sometimes life surprises you.”
He put his arms around me and smiled down at me. “You are usually happy here?”
I smiled. “It beats being alone somewhere without a place to call home. Yes, I miss my old life and I hate the people who destroyed it, but I am as happy as I can imagine here.”
“What exactly happened?” he then asked softly. I still hadn’t told him. “You promised you’d tell me one day.”
I swallowed against the lump in my throat and stared straight ahead at the wall. I was afraid, I’d burst into tears if I looked at Ivar.
“You…you know that my father was an Earl at the coast of Jutland and he married my mother, who had been a famous shield maiden and friend to Aslaug. Together, they built a loyal community and a nice little fortune. Their earldom grew and thrived through the years, the lands brought good crops, the sea provided enough fish, and everybody was living well. I was treated like a princess by our people and our lives were joyful.  I was growing up and I found a warrior my father approved of and we were supposed to get married after the summer.
However, my uncle had not been that lucky. His lands had fallen barren and he blamed my father for his misfortune. My father took him in, but behind closed doors, my uncle became jealous and started to build an army to overthrow my father and his supporters. After Midsommar, they killed my father and his most loyal supporters in their sleep. Everybody else they gave a choice: follow them and live or renounce them and die. Within a couple of hours, my life was torn apart, my family dead, my former betrothed had chosen my uncles side. Of course, I would never follow somebody who had killed my family, but for some reason he let me live.”
Ivar shook his head. “So, your uncle killed all your people?”
I had fought my tears until now, but now my feelings broke their way through the façade. I gave a nod and sniffed, brushing the tears away. “Yes, everybody who would not bow to him. From my parents to my helpless little brother.”
Ivar’s brows furrowed. “Then why did he spare you?”
I shrugged. “It’s not like he told me. I just know he had the chance, but instead he held me captive.”
I looked at Ivar, who had this annoying, all-knowing smirk on his face. “I have a theory; he intended to marry you to make his claim to the throne legitimate.”
My eyes widened, I hadn’t thought of this. But of course, Ivar’s tactically thinking head had seen right through it.
“But how did you get to Kattegat? Did he let you go or did you flee?”
I shrugged. “I ran away in the night. They didn’t guard me too heavily.”
“What does ‘not heavily’ mean?” Ivar chuckled.
“I had to kill three guards. But after that it was quite easy to find a horse and some food.” I shrugged.
Now Ivar burst into laughter. “My wife, my gorgeous, deadly wife just walked out of imprisonment by killing three guards. And you probably didn’t even break a sweat, did you?”
“They were sleeping on the job. It was easy, they never saw me coming.”
“Remind me to never leave any weapons out when you’re angry, Sif.” He laughed.
I turned serious almost immediately. “I could never kill you, Ivar.” I knew about our bond. Our lives were entangled by now and I wasn’t sure if one would survive the other’s death. I also knew what it felt like to be betrayed by someone you loved.
Ivar looked at me, his interest spiked. “You know more about the future than you want to share with me, don’t you?”
I shrugged again. “I know very little of the way things will turn out.” I evaded his question.
But Ivar wasn’t fooled easily. “But you have seen things. You know things.”
“I know about things that might be, or not. I saw short scenes, but I am not a seer. I don’t know if they will come to pass. I saw them when we got married.”
“Have you seen the future before?” he asked, now seriously curious.
I shook my head. “No, never. I have never had visions or dreams. I have always been most ordinary.”
“Until now.”
I gave a nod. There was only one thing that had changed. I shook my head in confusion.
“I am not quite sure what it is with your family, but the Gods have plans for you.”
Ivar gave me a contemplating look. “Yes. I know. The question is; which role are you going to play in this ever changing game?” his voice had a slight edge to it that told me to be careful now.
I drew in a sharp breath. “What do you mean?”
He shook his head and tutted at me with a sad smile. “Don’t act as if you don’t know. You know as well as I do that by now, someone will have told you. Or you have thought of it by yourself. I am… I am not a real man. I will never father a child. I will never be able to satisfy your…cravings or fulfill all of your needs.” he spat out.
I met his gaze head-on. “I do know. But who says, I have ‘cravings’?”
“Don’t you all?” he asked back. “All of you…women?”
I shrugged. “Not just like that. We’re not animals.”
“So, you wouldn’t just…say, run off and shag my brother?”
I looked at Ivar evenly. No need to act shocked or annoyed. “No. Why would I? I am your wife. And I can keep my urges in check. Also… your brothers are jerks.”
Ivar smiled a little at that. Then he became serious again. “We need to find a way to keep people from waiting for an heir too soon. But I will need an heir someday.”
“Is there no way…?” I asked, trailing off, but looking at him questioningly.
Ivar just snorted. “I wish there was. I will probably have to ask you to go to bed with another man at some point.”
I swallowed hard. “If it has to be done…”
He looked at me with something like admiration. But there was an underlying slyness to it, I didn’t like. “You would do that for me?” he asked.
I sensed a trap. “Only if you ever asked. Only for you and by your bidding.”
Ivar chuckled. “My clever, selfless princess. I have really come to like you, you keep me on my toes.”
I grinned. “Likewise. Never a dull day with you.”
“I take that as a compliment.”
“As well you should, Ivar. I could never be with a man who doesn’t challenge me intellectually. I do not care about these other needs as much as I care about intellectual companionship.”
Ivar took my hand in between his and looked down onto them. With a small smile, he looked up at me. Shook his head and chuckled. Then he drew closer and kissed me, burrying me beneath him. He sighed into my mouth and and hugged me tight. “How do you always know what to say?” he asked breathlessly. Maybe he didn’t get aroused by it as other men did, but he still enjoyed the closeness and the familiarity it created. He softly carressed my cheek as he drew his body to fully cover mine. And then I could suddenly feel him against my thigh. Half-limp, but not all soft. I immediately looked up at Ivar with astonishment. He noticed and realised what I was excited about, then turned red and nervous and suddenly it was all over. I made a mental note that there was still some hope. Ivar, on the other hand, was upset. He rolled off of me and turned his back to me in shame. His body curled in on itself and he stayed silent. I just lay there beside him and didn’t quite know how to save the situation, which was when I decided to take one of the largest steps into this deep, dark ocean that was our marriage.
I slid closer toward him, hands shaking, and started to scratch his neck. He liked that, I had noticed as much. He was tense at first then started to relax a little. And in the end, I just hugged him from behind and pressed his back to my chest, burrying my face in the space between his shoulder blades. For a moment, I wasn’t sure if he’d push me away, but in the end, I could feel him exhale deeply and take my hand in his.
“Y/N”, he whispered, “I am sorry.”
I shook my head and shushed him. “Don’t be. Right now, the Gods have other plans for you. They need you to concentrate on what lies ahead. They cannot have you think about your children.”
I felt him shake slightly. “How do you know that?”
“I just do. There is something coming and I don’t know what. But I know it will bring challenges and changes.”
“But we…will we stay the same?”
Now I chuckled. “We hardly will, we haven’t even found out who we are and how we should treat each other.”
Ivar went silent. It was a thoughtful silence and in the end he emerged with a sentiment:
“I have grown fond of you. Maybe I even love you, my future queen. I don’t want you to ever leave my side.”
“Well”, I quipped, “I will have to leave for practice tomorrow morning. Torvi promised to take me with her.”
He turned his head, so I could see his smile. “You know what I was talking about.”
“I do, don’t I?” I grinned and gave him a peck on the cheek. “Just promise me one thing, Ivar: Don’t go, where I can’t follow.”
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stardustloki · 5 years
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Fanfic ask game
I was tagged by the lovely @mercialachesis Thank you so much!! I really enjoyed doing this.
Side note that isn’t part of the ask game because I don’t think enough people have read their work:
My favourite stuff of theirs is a really well written civil war AU that doesn’t have nearly enough views or anything! Steve is so incredibly well written in this and everyone else is amazing as well.
I also really like the one in which kid Loki (who has his mouth sewn shut :(  ) ends up on earth and meets 1940s kid Steve because aaah that’s so well done toooo. I really feel like I’m there when I’m reading it.
At what age did you start writing fanfiction? I’ve been writing it since I was six years old, maybe earlier. The first I can remember (and have a typed record of) is my friends and I meeting the doctor, sarah jane etc. Please enjoy the absolutely gripping beginning lmao ‘There was a banging noise outside Holly’s, Chloe’s and Deborah’s door. It was a monster called the Dark Knight. It took them to a foreign planet. It took them took to a jail and locked the door. Sarah Jane, Rose and K.9. were also locked up.‘ 
6 year old me was not a literary genius by a long shot.
Who is your favorite author?
This is a hard hard hard question. I have sooooooo many. I have had a long think and I’m going to go with Snorri Sturluson. Snorri, you may be long dead and gone however I thank you greatly for writing the prose Edda so that now, hundreds upon hundreds of years down the line, we have Thor in the MCU and Mythological material to bastardise in our fanfictions. 
Edit: Does this mean fanfic author. It probably does. In which case it’s @gold-from-straw because her work = impeccable.
Favorite type of scene to write?
This probably won’t come as a surprise to anyone who has ever read my work but I thrive off angst and whump and angsty conversations/introspection.
What is your favorite fanfic?
Against the Moon by StoplightDelight. Absolutely the best Marauder’s Era fic there is out there. Every single character is handled so goddamn well. 
What tags do you avoid like the plague?
Th*rki (they are brothers!), St*rker (Peter is a child and they have a mentor mentee father son relationship goddamnit), L*ki/reader (I am one of the seemingly rare people who love Loki but are not lusting after him so just. No thank you. I’m a lesbian.) - stars added to names so people who do like reading these don’t have to see my answers when they search for content
What AU do you wish to write but feel like you won’t manage?
I am mind blanking here, sorry. Actually, I’ve just thought of one! One in which the X-men go back in time and save Erik (Magneto) and his mother etc. from before the concentration camp and maybe he grows up with kid Charles. I know I love angst but I want people to heal from it and Erik did not deserve the shit he went through.
What has been your favorite story to write so far? 
The Monster Under the Bed, easily. I just, love all the characters in it so much! (Apart from Odin, who is evil af in it - I did love writing him tho) And the story went to so many places I wasn’t expecting and it was just an utter joy to write.
Do you prefer to write one-shots or multi-chapters? Why?
Multi-chapters. I just like how you can explore multiple characters and take them on a journey get to know your reviewers/commenters a bit along the way.
What is your favorite kind of comment?
Do I have one? I love ones that are just like: well thanks I’ve stayed up basically all night reading this so I’m getting nowhere enough sleep because of you. I like people saying they liked general things (aka I like reassurance that the chapter wasn’t crap) or details. I like seeing what people felt, whether through keysmashes or more eloquent means. For the Monster Under the Bed one reviewer just said ‘LOVED IT!’ every chapter and you know what, that was magnificent because I knew they read the chapter and got to the end of it and liked it and it was very reassuring (because after someone’s left kudos for the first time, or followed, there’s actually no way to know if they like the next chapters if they don’t comment/review).
NGL sometimes I do love flames. This one time a commenter compared Thor to Hitler and I still Lose My Shit laughing every time I think about that. This other time I was presented with an 800 word essay of everything wrong with what I was writing. Once this person stopped reading because they didn’t like a chapter title.
Don’t leave flames. Flames aren’t nice. But sometimes they just illustrate how stupid people are and you have to laugh.
TLDR: I love comments. I sell my soul for comments. Give me comments please.
Why did you start writing fanfiction? Why are you still writing it?
I saw possibilities. I like writing. I want practice for becoming a professional author. The reasons haven’t changed in the last 14 or so years haha
I tag: @legolokili @gold-from-straw @readeption @lalaurelia @crissiti @enkelimagnus and legit anyone else who wants to do this as I am super aware that I have probably forgotten loads of people who write!
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jonquilclegane · 2 years
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Hello! I'm currently writing a story where the main character is heavily based on Sigyn. I can't seem to find a whole lot of info on her online besides your blogs. Do you have any information about her that would be helpful to make a backstory/powers for my main character? Like her parents, organizations she was in (Somewhere I read she was a Valkyrie?? :0), and her relationship with Loki, etc.
Go crazy with whatever info you want to give, and thanks in advance!! :)
What a wonderful idea!!!
Well, there are not a lot of information on Sigyn herself, except for that one story on the Edda and other poems. As you must know, she was Loki's (second) wife, they had two kids, Vali & Narvi (or Narfi or Nari, depends on the source). As Loki had killed his son Baldur, Odin went all "A son for a son", and turned Vali into a wolf which killed Narvi. Narvi's guts were used to chain Loki to a rock and Skadi placed a snake above Loki's head which poured its venom into Loki's eyes. However, Sigyn shielded him from the venom with a bowl, but had to empty it from time to time, and Loki's screams caused earthquakes on Midgard.
So, this is the official information, since we lost SO MANY stories :'(
HOWEVER, if you want to look for clues on Sigyn's identity beyond this, there are quite a few.
Names have meaning in Norse mythology. For instance, Loki's first wife (NOT HIS MISTRESS, HIS WIFE) Angrboda, her name means "Bringer of grief", as her kids will bring Ragnarok (pretty sure Fenrir is the best boy, but anyway).
Glut, Logi's wife, her name means "Glow", as she is a fire Giantess.
As for Sigyn, her name means "Friend of victory" or "Victorious girlfriend". And some people will tell you that it does not matter, but WHY WOULD IT MATTER FOR THE REST, and not for her?
It's all in the "Sig" part, which means "Victory". She shares it with great heroes of those Norse/Germanic legends: Sigfried, Sigurd, with some Valkyries too (Sigrun, Sigrdrífa), and even with some of Odin's names as a Victory deity : Sigtyr, Sigþrór, Sigrúnnr, Sigfǫðr, Sigðir, ....
So, based on her name, you can guess she was probably a Valkyrie or some kind of Victory goddess (Norse gods are not like Greek gods. There can be several gods of the same thing. For instance, Odin is god of Poetry, but so is his son Bragi ^^')
You could find this theory quite light, however, archeological findings seem to go in this way, as the Gosford cross (10th century, England) depicts Sigyn with a hairdo very typical of the warriors of the Viking age, with a braid.
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Some writers pretend she only helped Loki out of duty, but can you even imagine Odin being happy with one of the Aesirs (mostly if she was truly one of his Valkyries???) siding with his enemy?
Yeah. That was HER choice. I actually had this theory that her cup was not her cup, but her shield (or one of its remains?) - and so she was shielding Loki with her shield :')
About Sigyn's family: we know nothing, officially.
In Cat Rector's book, "The Goddess of Nothing at all", Odin is her father, and since one of his kennings is "Father of Victory", it is a possibility.
Marvel gives Sigyn a very interesting family, with Freya as her mother, Iwaldi as her father (so Iwaldi's sons, from the story where Loki gets its lips sewn, would be her brothers, and Idunn her sister), and Nanna (BALDER's wife!!!) her sister.
Imagine thinking of all this amazing links to Loki's stories... and doing nothing with it... *circus sounds* I'm crying at the wasted potential...
On a Norse mythology website, I saw they picked Sol as Sigyn's mother, and I rather like the idea, though Freya truly works too.
Freya is linked to several Loki stories, so having Loki meet Sigyn per chance while visiting Freya to borrow her magical coat, or trying to save her from the Builder, or stealing her necklace... might be a possiblity.
So, what was Sigyn goddess of? Well. Once again, we don't know. Based on her name, as I said, some people believe she was Goddess of Victory, and I quite like that. Marvel made her Goddess of Fidelity, so it kind of stayed, but pagans also pray her as the Goddess of Constancy, Loyalty and Compassion, which I find lovely.
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Sigyn's kennings also give us more clues to who she was : Loki's delight, Loki's treasure... and after that Marvel/Sandman/Magnus Chase/Gospel of Loki/... will make you believe he hates her. HAHAHAHAHA. NOPE. When in the "Lokasenna", Loki insulted ALL the gods (including his old pal and bloodbrother Odin), he spared Sigyn, and for a good reason. She's part of his family, of his team. She's on HIS side. Why would he hate her or bully her? Marvel and the writers who kept on spreading this version of their relationship obviously did not do the research, and prefered the "abused wife trope" when we only have clues showing us a strong and loving relationship between Loki and Sigyn.
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Another of Sigyn's kennings is "incantation fetter", which is a mystery, but maybe she could make chains through incantations? It's interesting that Odin chose one of the sons Loki had with the "incantation fetter" to create the chains that bound him to the rock ^^'
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The Norse mythology scholars also know that gods had several names, so it's possible that Sigyn is known under another identity. Freya had two daughters: Gersemi (jewel) and Hnoss (treasure), so it's possible she is one of them? Frigga's list of handmaidens might also be of interest (Marvel DID make Sigyn one of her handmaidens ^^'). Among them, you have Syn, who keeps the door in the hall, and locks it before those who should not go in; she is also set at trials as a defense against such suits as she wishes to refute (I can imagine Syn/Sigyn going all "I OBJECT" every time a god accuses her husband XDXD). Var is another possility, as she is a deity of the oaths between men and women and takes vengeance on those who perjure themselves (you know THAT type of girl would be badass enough to say F** you to Odin and stay by her husband's side - my wedding vows are IMPORTANT, SIR.)
For those who think Sigyn would still be on the Aesir side: THEY KILLED HER KIDS. Whatever her feelings for Loki, NO MOTHER would side with the bastards who killed their kids.
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Sigyn is a true mystery, but there are clues and so many possibilities! Going for the "abused wife" trope when you could play with the victorious meaning of her name, when you could tell a story of love and endurance... I just don't understand those writers XD
Even if you make Loki your villain, it does not mean he has to be a bully to his wife. Even Evil can have loved ones. And doesn't that make BOTH Loki and Sigyn much more interesting, and complex as characters?
Gospel of Loki (Joanne Harris) was one of the harshest with Sigyn, making Loki HATE her AND their kids (why would Odin kill them, then? ^^'). However, from her version, I do take two things and include them in my fanfictions: her love for baking pies and her gossiping XDXD Harris pretends Loki cannot stand either of those things, but... Loki? Hating gossip??? XDXD It's ridiculous and seems so out of character to me XDXD And who does not love a good pie? Duh.
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(art by @lorific-arts )
Anyway, I hope all the information will help you. I can't wait to read your story! I'm sure it's going to be amazing!! <3
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Hello good day! I would like to know what is your opinion about the punishment of the Gods, do you think that the deities punish those who act badly and ruin their lives? Are there pagan people who claim that Loki is not a god? that he is not Thor's brother and does not have kinship? and that nobody knows where loki comes from? if loki is not a god then what is it? Is it just a Scandinavian folklore character?
Hi!
Loki isn’t Thor’s brother in the lore. This isn’t really a debate, even among Lokeans. Thor’s parents are stated to be Odin and Jord. (Not Frigg–Odin sleeps around a lot.) Loki’s are stated to beFarbauti and Laufey (or Nal.) There’s no surviving medieval version where Loki is also a son of Odin: that’s a Marvel thing. It’s unclear whether Loki has kinship to Thor, in that it’s unclear whether Loki’s mother is a jotun or an asynja. If he does, there’s nothing indicating that they’re what we’d consider immediate family.
I’m not sure what you’re asking regarding where Loki comes from. Again, we know his parentage. We don’t know where he was born, but the same could be said of a lot of other figures, including Odin and Thor. The Eddas in general don’t establish geography very solidly or consistently for the most part.
It’s true that some pagans and academics don’t refer to Loki as a god. This is because some people don’t view the jotnar in general as gods, just the aesir and vanir. As discussed above, it’s unclear whether Loki has any aesir heritage. However, there is historical evidence that the jotnar were also venerated. It’s unclear whether it’s really fair not to call them gods. And even if they don’t qualify, it’s worth pointing out that Snorri lists Loki as one of the aesir regardless.
A lot of people who claim to be against worshiping Loki because of his jotun heritage are mysteriously okay with worshiping other jotnar like Skadi, Hel, and Mani. A bunch of anti-Loki sentiment really stems from prejudice against the marginalized folks who tend to make up the majority of his devotees.
As for whether the gods punish humans…Heathen relationships with the gods are different than some other religions you may be familiar with. The Norse gods aren’t really treated as perfect exemplars of human morality. They actually frequently fail to live up to human moral standards (and by that, I mean both modern Western and pre-Christian Norse moral standards.) In other words, while they’re powerful and wise and have much to teach us, they’re not really going around condemning humans for every single ethical breach. The discussions about being a good person in the lore are almost always centered on being a good family member and citizen and leading a happy life, not keeping the gods appeased.
That said, while the gods aren’t necessarily going around playing moral police, they aren’t above metaphorically breaking some kneecaps to defend their own or collect on a big debt. Deliberately spiting them or going back on a promise can end badly. This is one of the reasons some Heathens discourage making any oaths to the gods.
But again, they’re not like, out waiting for a chance to smite us. Unless you’re deliberately trying to disrespect or cheat them, you don’t need to stress over the possibility. It may be helpful to conceptualize your relationship with them as something akin to a human family member or mentor. Generally speaking, they wish us well and want to maintain a positive relationship even if both parties may screw up once in awhile. . 
- Mod E
To add on a little about the relationship between Odin and Loki being very different in the mythology to what it is in the MCU, this is a quote from the poem Lokasenna in the Poetic Edda:
Loki spake:
“Remember, Othin, | in olden daysThat we both our blood have mixed;Then didst thou promise | no ale to pour,Unless it were brought for us both.”
There is a scholarly theory that Loki was a member of the Aesir through ‘adoption’ into the family via his blood bond with Odin. This is, however, just a theory. Either way, Loki - although not historically worshiped - is no different than any other Norse deities. - Mod L
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tipsycad147 · 4 years
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Wolf Gods and Goddesses
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Where Did Wolf Gods and Goddesses Originate?
One of the most majestic and cunning of the animal kingdom is the wolf. Dating back thousands of years are stories of wolf gods and goddesses. All over the world, shamans of each culture have revered the wolf for its swiftness, but also for their instinctual abilities and wild freedom. Wolf medicine is strong medicine, or so they say. Unfortunately, in past years wolves were killed off because of superstition, so there aren’t nearly as many wolves as there once was. But wolves endure. And so do the myths of gods and wolves. The wolf gods detailed here are:  Odin, Lycaon, and Mars. And the wolf goddesses:  The Morrighan, Skadi, Artemis, Diana, and Leto.
Gods and goddesses of the ancient world often held a special connection with wolves. Some say this is because the beliefs of our ancestors were animistic – they believed everything in nature had consciousness including animals. Wildlife was thought of as sacred in ancient times, and there are scholars who believe ancient land guardian spirits were worshipped by ancient tribes and would eventually rise to become great gods and goddesses. To find an image of a god or goddess in the likeness of an animal was commonplace. Some of the more obvious animal-god connections can be seen on the ancient temple walls in Egypt. For example, the ibis-headed god Thoth. Or the hawk-headed god Horus. Wolf gods and goddesses were depicted with the heads of wolves, transformed into wolves, or were strongly associated with wolves.
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Artemis and Diana have a close connection with Greek wolves.
Artemis & Diana: Wolf Goddesses of the Woods
Artemis is the Greek Goddess of the hunt, the forest, archery, chastity, and the moon. She was also a protector of women and children and was known to heal women’s injuries and disease. When depicted, Artemis was nearly always shown with animals of some kind – most often with dogs or deer. This is because her domain was the forest, and therefore all wildlife within the forest was under her guidance. This would have included wolves.
If you are to research Artemis, you will find mostly references to her link with hunting dogs. The Greek God Pan gave Artemis a pack of hunting dogs of which Artemis takes seven when she goes hunting. Her connection with the moon serves to tell us that any animal with a draw towards the moon would be favored in Artemis’ eyes. Therefore, wolves, the primal original canines who so love to howl at the moon are also Artemis’ animals.
Diana, the Roman Goddess of the Moon, was thought to be Artemis’ Roman equivalent. They had many of the same qualities and attributes including domain over the forest and wildlife therein. Diana was the Roman Goddess of the Moon, just as Artemis was the Greek Goddess of the Moon. She ruled over the woodland creatures, which would include wolves. She was also a protector of women and children. In recent times, wolves have come to be associated with the “primal” or “wild” woman, essentially taking us back to our primitive instincts and intuition. Diana’s inseparable link with women and the fact that she was a wild forest goddess makes her connection with wolves palpable.
Leto: The Original Greek Wolf Goddess
It’s no wonder Artemis is thought to have wolves in her compendium of animal guardians and helpers, as Artemis’ mother in Greek mythology was Leto. Leto was born on the island of Kos and her parents were Titans. Leto had relations with Zeus and gave birth to Artemis and Apollo. She was a goddess of womanhood and motherhood, and thus the birth of Apollo and Artemis are significant to the Leto myth. The legend says that Leto laboured for days to deliver the twins Artemis and Apollo – this is related to wolves’ difficult delivery of their young. The journey that Leto took from the Hyperboreoi to Delos took twelve days, which is the time it took for wolves to deliver their young in Greek mythology. This made her one of the Greek wolf goddesses. She might have been the original Greek wolf goddess!
Leto was also believed to have had the ability to shift into the form of a wolf. Sometimes she was said to have been a she-wolf and so is linked to Lycia a.k.a. wolf-country. Leto honoured and adored wolves because they were thought to have provided her assistance in her times of need.
Leto was always depicted and worshipped as an important Mother Goddess, and her cult stretched from Greece to Crete to Egypt. She is sometimes depicted with a golden spindle, which mirrors many of the other ancient goddesses across the continent of Europe. A spindle points to the idea of the goddess spinning our fate, as in the Greek myth of the Fates or the Norse Norns.
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Skadi is a Norse Wolf Goddess of the Winter and a Giantess.
The Morrighan: Celtic Wolf Goddess
The Morrighan is an ancient Irish (Celtic) goddess of life and death, wisdom, magic, shapeshifting, and war and also one of the Celtic wolf goddesses. She might have originally been three separate goddesses that eventually were merged into a triple-goddess. The Morrighan in her three aspects include Badh, Macha, and Nemain. The Morrighan is almost always seen as a fierce, aggressive goddess with a yearning for blood on the battlefield. She takes no prisoners, and shows little mercy to those who are her enemies. For those she loves – she will do whatever it takes to help them, including shapeshifting into various forms. One of those forms is in the shape of a large grey-red wolf, making her an ancient wolf goddess.
In the Irish epic tale The Cattle Raid of Cooley, the Morrighan takes on many forms in the presence of Cu Chulainn. She trips him while in the form of an eel, then runs all over the cattle in the form of a great wolf. Because the Morrighan is seen as a wild, liberated and independent goddess, it only makes sense that the wolf is one of her animal associations.
Skadi: Goddess of Winter & Wolves
A favorite of the wolf goddesses in ancient Scandinavia was Skadi. Skadi is a Norse Goddess of the Winter and a Giantess. Her plight for revenge against the gods for her father’s death was met with a trick – Odin tricked her into marrying Njord, a god of the sea, instead of Odin’s son, Baldur, of whom Skadi was determined to marry. The two lived together for a short time but the marriage was doomed, as Skadi’s heart was in the mountains and Njord’s was in the sea. Eventually Skadi fell in love with Ulle and they lived in the snowy mountains together.
Skadi often has wolves at her sides, as the Poetic Edda shows. Njord, after returning to the sea from his stay in the mountains with Skadi, mentions how the howling of the wolves kept him awake at night. But Skadi doesn’t mind the howls, she welcomes them. She is one of the wolf pack, and she will forever guard the mountains as her sacred home.
Lycaon: Wolf-Man of Myth
Lycaon, also known as Arcadia, was a mythological king of Arcadia. There were many Greek myths surrounding Lycaon’s life, but the most popular tells of Zeus turning Lycaon into a wolf after Lycaon tried to trick Zeus. Here again we see the “trickster” archetype alive in the myth of Lycaon who is then turned into the trickster-creature – the wolf. The term lycanthropy is directly related to the name Lycaon, and is a disorder in which a person believes he or she is actually a wolf.
There are many versions of the Lycaon myth, but all tell of the king being transformed into a wolf.
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Mars, the Wolf Brothers, and Lupercalia Festival
In ancient Rome, there was a wild fertility festival that happened every year on February 15th called Lupercalia. This festival involved a number of bawdy and lascivious acts, including men running around naked chasing women, beating women with sticks to ensure fertility throughout the year, and animal sacrifices of goats and a dog. The priesthood known as the Luperci (brothers of the wolf) were to perform these rites. This festival was put on every year until approximately the fifth century AD, when all pagan holidays and celebrations were outlawed by the Church. What does this have to do with a god and his association to wolves?
If we identify the term Lupercalia, we find that luper translates roughly to wolf. The ancient Romans and Greeks held wolves in high honour and regard, and so the war and agriculture god would come to be associated with the wolves. Romulus and Remus, twin brothers associated with the founding of Rome, were said to have been orphaned by Mars and their orphan mother then suckled by a large she-wolf in a cave known as Lupercal. Fun Harry Potter fact: there is a professor known as Remus Lupin who makes a debut appearance in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. Where do you think JK Rowling thought up his name?
Odin and His Wolves
Often we see Odin, the all-father of Norse mythology, shown with two ravens; however, when Odin is not accompanied by his large corvid friends he is flanked by two great wolves named Geri and Freki. The mention of Odin’s wolves comes from the Prose and Poetic Edda. Their characters in the Poetic and Prose Edda demonstrate a warrior quality, in particular a greed for blood and corpses. The names Geri and Freki are translated to be “greedy” and “the ravenous one”. They are destruction that makes way for creation.
Odin has been associated with the Greek God Apollo, who also has an evident connection with wolves and ravens. The Ulfednar in Norse Mythology are wolf-warriors and are referred to as Odin’s fighters. They always wore the pelts of wolves when going into battle.
Odin can come through to his followers as a trickster god (though Loki is known specifically for being THE Norse trickster god) and therefore another connection with wolves is demonstrated. Wolves are thought to be tricksters in many ancient cultures, including in some Native American cultures. Not only are they tricksters, they run in packs, and are ferocious, all qualities shown through the Ulfednar and in Odin, the all-father.
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https://otherworldlyoracle.com/wolf-gods-wolf-goddesses/
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