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5-puthyyy · 2 years

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My Thoughts on Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (SPOILERS AHEAD)

No, seriously, there are heavy spoilers so don't read this if you haven't watched the movie yet.

TRIGGER WARNING: mentions of death and brutal violence, mentions of suicide, mentions of depression and trauma, mentions of PTSD.

Look, these are just my very fresh thoughts 4 hours after watching the movie in the cinema. I will explain the good and the bad and I will try justify my opinions (despite the fact that no one needs to justify their opinions on movies lol but we all know how crazy some fans can be when it comes to their fav directors/actors/characters). Please, I don't need comments telling me 'hey, it's just a fictional character, fictional movie, blah blah.' Everything is subjective and this is content being made for us, so we are allowed to have opinions!!

Elizabeth Olsen absolutely NAILED this performance. It is by far the best thing about this movie. I can not fault it at all; her parts were the most interesting and engaging (and while it was heavily because of her performance, the directing was a big part of that too). Every line, every expression (physical or facial), everything Elizabeth did was perfection. She had me gripping my seat every single time she was on the screen. I was gasping, crying, filled with excitement and every emotion possible at different times. I was practically hypnotised by her acting and felt like I was being pulled into the screen. It’s all in the eyes, man. It’s the EYES and the amount of emotion she’s able to convey in them. She can turn from panicked to calculated to cocky to broken in seconds and all we need to do is look at her eyes and we’ll know. You know how people say ‘Heath carries’ in The Dark Knight? I felt this way here (TDK fans don't attack me). Elizabeth carries CRAZY. Perfection and she deserves all the attention and praise for this performance.

This did not feel like a Doctor Strange movie. Or a Stephen Strange one. Or both. Probably both. God, we’ve seen this all before and I’m getting so tired and bored of it. I adore his character and I was so excited to see some progression, some complexity, some more depth to his character. But nope. It’s the same ‘I am an arrogant man and so what? But wait, I fucked up? Okay, my bad, I’ll fix it and my actions will have no direct consequences on me.’ And it’ll be the same thing in his next movie, as it was in his first one. It’s Tony Stark all over again. And I hate it. Please, PLEASE, Marvel, come up with something different! Men are not all egotistical people who have one weak spot which happens to be their girl, the girl they can’t have but is always ‘almost there but not quite’ with them. It’s ‘man have ego, man realises ego bad, man fixes problem’ and then we see the SAME THING in the next movie. Where’s the character progression? Please. Please. Stop butchering your characters, especially the men.

Speaking of his character, why the fuck are we barely seeing his powers used? His best fight was the first one saving America. Dude was cuffed the whole Illuminati/Mordo fight and they save the use of his powers until he fights Evil Strange. And WTF was that fight? Look, I’m all for artistic freedom and whatever, but that was not it. They have so much power, so many abilities, and y’all are fighting with music notes? PLEASE LMFAO. Nope, not it. I did not like that scene, especially with how hyped everyone was when the trailer came out. They had us thinking Strange vs Strange would be on another level of insanely cool power, like the 'What If' episode. But nope. Pretty disappointed in that.

While there were a lot of variants of him, they barely had enough time on screen for me to give a shit about them. I’m sorry but what is up with these 5 minute appearances just to be killed off? Is this Marvel’s way to show off ‘hey, we have a multiverse now!’ like the way they fucked up Pietro/X-Men Peter’s appearance in WandaVision just to make a Boner joke. Gross. Please. The world doesn’t have to revolve around ‘our’ Marvel universe (which is 616...lol I'm not even going to address how ridiculous that is). I want to see more. Now that you’ve opened up the multiverse, why does it feel like you’ve closed it all in one movie? Especially with the way the Illuminati all got killed within a few minutes. Why? Just to show off Wanda’s new fighting skills? Or as a desperate attempt to solidify this ridiculous villain narrative you’ve given her? (I’ll get into that later). I wanted to see more, I wanted to see these new multiverse characters in the future projects at the very least. But with the way these very important, big, and powerful characters were killed off AND the way America Chavez is now being trained in the mystic arts…well, it looks like they’re closing off this multiverse concept and I’m not happy with it. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong, but for now that’s what it looks like to me.

DUDE. YOU BUTCHERED WANDA’S ARC. I’m sorry but did you seriously make her not only kill people (and be okay with killing a CHILD), but make her BRUTALLY kill them in ways that can only be described as horrific to the point where she’s enjoying it and playing with her powers and think we would just...accept it? Bruh…did they just…forget how broken she was over Lagos? How she broke down crying after realising she’s been giving the people of Westview her pain and grief? Villains don’t feel guilt. She’s an anti-hero, sure, but not a full blown villain. I get that it can be justified because of the Darkhold, but if it was corrupting her to this extent, then her motives would be more than just wanting to be with her kids again. That’s something WANDA wants and it’s not a ‘villain’ motive to be buried in so much trauma and grief that you just want to get back the people you lost. It’s different to Zemo turning the Avengers against each other because that was revenge. Vengeance, if you will. This is Loki wanting the throne and power to prove his worth to his father. And Loki is very much an anti-hero. Loki killed people, but we don’t see this level of brutality, we don’t see him cutting people in half, bursting their fucking heads. It’s just…so out of character for Wanda to be doing things like this. Although they were great scenes, visually and horror-wise. I loved it, and I loved Elizabeth. But it was just so out of character and I feel it was done only to justify killing her in the end. Because even if she didn’t sacrifice herself, they wouldn’t let her live on when she’s been seen on screen brutally killing heroes. Y’all just can’t have powerful characters, can you? I feel like Marvel just don’t know what to do with them because they’re so hard to work with. Trying to find a villain to use that’s big enough to be a challenge for these powerful heroic characters is difficult, which is also a reason why they nerfed Hulk, and nerfed Thor in Endgame. They do much better with these street heroes than the Godly powerful ones. And it’s just really disappointing.

Carrying on with that ending that I will never speak of again after this, I really think the message Marvel have been sending is dangerous. Before people start trolling with ‘they’re just comic book movies, they’re not realistic, blah blah blah I lack critical thinking skill and social awareness’, what Marvel give to their audience has an impact. It always has and it always will, and representation is important. That includes mental health and people who struggle with theirs. When you have Bruce Banner telling the Avengers he’s tried to off himself just to have the entire team brush it off and never speak of it again, when you have Thor’s trauma being turned into a joke, when you have Tony Stark’s PTSD turned into a sacrifice that apparently is the only way he can ‘rest’, it becomes problematic. And what really tips the iceberg in this movie? The fact that we have a character who has lost everyone, her parents, brother, her country, every home she’s ever had (Sokovia, Avengers compound, Westview house), her love (I’ve lost count of the amount of times she’s lost Vision at this point), AND her kids…and what do you do with that? What message do you send? Die. That’s the message. She just…sacrifices herself? Despite the fact that was all know Wanda is very capable of surviving that collapse, you still had her practically kill herself because she can’t handle being alone. Are you fucking serious? Time and time again Marvel have refused to take mental health seriously for these characters and there are REAL PEOPLE watching these movies, real people relating to these characters that comfort them in a way, real people that see their own trauma on the screen and think ‘wow, I get this. I feel this. I’m heard’. And time and time again, they’re not taken seriously, don’t get given the help they need, or they die in some sacrificial way. Tony, hell even Natasha was haunted by her past, and now Wanda. Just because you made her realise her wrongs doesn’t make it okay, it doesn’t make it a ‘for the better good’ situation, not when she’s had no problem exploding a man’s head earlier on in the movie. Butchered her arc, butchered her characterisation, and sent the worst message possible to the thousands, hell, millions of Wanda fans that resonate so much with her character to the point where some of them feel watching her saved their lives. Shame on you, Marvel.

Shame on you, Marvel, for introducing an LGBT couple just to have them killed off/sucked into some multiverse portal within seconds. Bro…you really needed that token representation so you can get your pat on the back? Come on. Do better. Other than that, America Chavez was great. I loved her character, and yes, it’s very ‘MCU formula’ with the whole troubled kid with powers they can’t control/don’t understand yet. They get taken under the wing of the parental figure (daddy strange lol) and eventually figure out the power/control/confidence was within them this whole time. It’s stereotypical, but it’s needed. I don’t think it’s that bad because we’re being introduced to new characters, new heroes, and they will have similarities with the old ones. They have to have the one thing that makes a hero, well, heroic. It’s overdone but I don’t think that makes it bad. Not everything has to be new and different. It’s okay, guys. She’s a kid. She’s supposed to be like this. I like it.

The visual effects, cinematography, CGI was great. Some CGI was a little off (like the third eye lol let us not talk about that) but overall it was a very visually appealing movie. My absolute favourite scene was when Professor X went into Wanda’s head. God, the white, the broken debris around, the horror, the hole, the RED, it was just so beautifully done. I need it as my new laptop wallpaper or something. I absolutely loved it. I’d go watch the movie just for those visuals again.

Okay…the directing…I’m sorry but it felt like Feige and Raimi were just competing with each other the whole time. The Raimi parts felt too Raimi and the Feige parts felt too Feige. It was very…contrasting, and it did not mix/balance well for me. Raimi had too many of his classic zooming in shots, and Feige had too much of your typical MCU funny formula. Although I did very much prefer Raimi’s takes. The horror is just done so well and executed amazingly. Again, it may also be Elizabeth’s acting for that lol but the directing is great for those. I loved the eerie vibe, the witchy vibe, the dark vibe. Which is why I’m just so disappointed it didn’t balance well. It felt like too many directors in there, too many takes, too many vibes. Very inconsistent.

Also, my love for the witchy-ness is also why I’m so disappointed with Wanda’s ending. Does this mean we won’t be seeing this sort of type of directing anymore? This vibe, this horror, this character? It feels like were just getting started and it just had so much potential. I would have loved to see Wanda as a consistent anti-hero or even with a better villain arc in the future. I love this witch mystic mythical shit so much and unless she’s going to be in the Agatha Harkness show, I’m worried she really is dead/gone from the MCU now. I don’t think I’m ready for that.

And Strange’s ending was very strange…He drops down and the third opens…okay, cool. So I guess we’ll see how the Darkhold corrupted him in the next movie? Wrong. He seems completely fine with having the third eye in the first post-credit. So another thing they opened just to resolve right away…this movie just felt like they were trying to resolve and close everything off and I don’t really like that. I prefer things being kept open, endless possibilities, a problem that still needs solving etc. It keeps it interesting. Again, another reason to hate the Wanda ending lol, like why couldn’t she have just hidden herself, teleported away after destroying the Darkhold. Or I’m just desperately clutching at straws or whatever the saying is lol I just can’t believe she’s actually just…dead. I refuse. Sorry.

So. It wasn’t horrible, it also wasn’t amazing. But it could have been if the directing was so inconsistent, if the characterisation of Wanda wasn’t so off, if Doctor Strange has some real character progression that isn’t overused with every egotistical man in like every comic book movie. It was fun to watch, it was beautiful to watch, and it’s definitely one of my favourites just because of the horror and visual effects. But Elizabeth carries HARD and I will forever stand by that statement.

#doctor strange spoilers #doctor strange in the multiverse of madness spoilers #mom spoilers #multiverse of madness spoilers #doctor strange 2 spoilers #doctor strange #doctor strange in the multiverse of madness #mom #multiverse of madness #wanda maximoff #scarlet witch #america chavez #elizabeth olsen

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nov4-rocket5 · 2 years

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So wait, Marvel gets the Quiet Place Dad cast as Mr. Fantastic, which a lot of people wanted, but instead of having him (or any of The Illuminati) do anything remotely cool, they have Wanda just kill him and the rest of the Illuminati pathetically and brutally?

Instead of having The Illuminati all shine, do cool things and then die, they die horribly and don’t even do anything. The issue isn't them dying, the issue is that they all got humiliated to wank off Wanda.

#mom spoilers #dsmom spoilers #doctor strange and the multiverse of madness #wanda maximoff #reed richards #doctor strange 2 spoilers #black bolt #charles xavier #monica rambeau #john krasinski

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alex-iltempo · 2 years

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#marvel #mcu #wanda maximoff #agent carter #peggy carter #captain carter #hayley atwell #doctor strange in the multiverse of madness #doctor strange 2 spoilers #what if

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abimess · 2 years

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Theories for Wanda's future in the MCU

As I mentioned in my previous post (My thoughts on MoM [with spoilers!]), I have some theories about what happens to Wanda now. And since this theory involves a lot of what happened in MoM, I'll put it under the cut and with spoiler tags. You have been warned!

This theory involves a rumor about Marvel possibly planning to adapt The Children's Crusade (CC) in the MCU. For those who haven't read the comic, I'll highlight a few points that are important to the theory:

Billy has an unstable moment with his magic, where he ends up killing several enemies to protect Ted (his boyfriend). This leads the Avengers (and even the Young Avengers themselves) to believe that he may be one of the lost children of the Scarlet Witch

The Avengers want to contain Billy by imprisoning him, but he knows they'll end up doing to him what they did to Wanda so he runs away

In the meantime, Billy feels Wanda's magic and knows she's alive, even though no one believes him. Magneto appears and says he's right, asking the children to help him find his daughter.

They go to Mount Wundagore, but she's not there. They end up in Latveria, where they find Wanda but without her memories. There, she's about to marry Dr. Doom.

This is enough to understand the theory I want to propose. So let's see the points of MoM (and the MCU in general) that make me believe that CC can indeed happen (and how it can happen):

Wanda didn't die. Being a Nexus being and by the nature of her magic, Wanda is incapable of dying (or rather, remaining dead). Not to mention that in MoM itself we saw her endurance. She literally goes through that gong all broken and deformed and is completely fine. The Darkhold Fortress didn't kill her, but it may have been enough to do enough damage for her to be badly injured and lose her memories.

Billy and Tommy don't exist in the main MCU universe, but we have two possibilities. The first (and more unlikely) is that, as in the comics, the souls of the children created by Wanda in the Hex, "reincarnate" into other children. Or, the variant Billy and Tommy will somehow be brought into the MCU, there are several possibilities as to how that would go. Since Wanda (variant) has powers, it's possible to deduce that Billy (variant) does too

In the case of using Billy (variant), since he's already met Wanda (MCU), he "knows" Wanda's magic, he'd be able to "feel" her, as he did in the comics

There's strong evidence that Latveria has already appeared in the MCU, in the Moon Knight series, when he wakes up in that strange country and meets Harrow for the first time

Agatha may play the role of Magneto in the CC adaptation. In the MCU, no one knows more about the Scarlet Witch than Agatha, who has studied about her for years to try to find her. News of Wanda's sacrifice will go around the world, and Agatha is sure to hear about it. And she knows that Wanda can't die, that she must be somewhere, and she goes after her. So Agatha goes after the twins, because of Billy's magic, which is very similar to Wanda's. As Agatha said in WandaVision, "you're gonna need me".. Maybe to "bring her back". This could be addressed in Agatha: House of Harkness, not as the main theme, but maybe as a secondary theme or even in a post-credit scene.

So, these are the main points for my theory that there'll be a Children's Crusade adaptation for the MCU. I think Agatha's series can bring a lot of interesting things to Wanda's return, but I don't think this return will happen soon.

But what do you think? Do you agree with this theory or do you think it's completely crazy? Any points to add? I'd love to know your thoughts!

#abimess talks #mom spoilers #multiverse of madness spoilers #doctor strange 2 spoilers #mom #multiverse of madness #doctor strange 2 #wanda maximoff #scarlet witch

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alltingfinns · 2 years

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“I put a bullet into the forehead of the man I love, don’t talk to me about sacrifice.”

Cool. The guy you’re talking to lived through 14 000 605 possible outcomes, trying to find one where they didn’t lose to the space grape. Presumably each time experiencing terrible death and grief, though it’s not clearly stated.

But it can be gleaned from his earlier sacrifice of locking himself into a time loop with an endless horror heading for Earth. A time loop triggered by his own (violent) death.

He was also given a choice of using his mystic powers to regain the use of his hands, allowing him a return to his old and glamorous life. Or instead learn to live with the constant pain and tremors in order to focus his use of the mystic arts on protecting others. He chose the world and the multiverse over his own comfort.

But sure. You know so much more about sacrifice. 🙄

#anti wanda maximoff #stephen strange #doctor strange #doctor strange spoilers #doctor strange 2 spoilers #doctor strange in the multiverse of madness

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tincanmans · 2 years

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pretty rich from some wanda stans to STILL blame tony for ultron and yet excuse wanda‘s actions with the darkhold‘s influence when wanda knowingly and intentionally invaded tony’s brain to make him "self-destruct" (in her own fucking words).

you cannot excuse one but not the other.

#the disconnect is mighty strong with some wanda stans lmao #anti wanda maximoff #anti wanda stans #anti mcu wanda #text #multiverse of madness spoilers #doctor strange 2 spoilers #mom spoilers

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pickypickypeak · 2 years

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Diversity wins! America Chavez has 2 mothers who show up for 10 seconds and then die

#this movie i swear #marvel #mcu #mcu spoilers #doctor strange #doctor strange in the multiverse of madness #doctor strange 2 spoilers #doctor strange spoilers #america chavez #marvel spoilers

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woulddieforloki · 2 years

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anyways the entirety of WandaVision and Multiverse of Madness could have been avoided if somebody acknowledged Wanda and her grief at the end of Endgame and invited her into their life

#im looking at you clint you know you wanted to adopt her 👀#no but fr literally anybody couldve done it they just had to like ask if she wants to go get coffee next week or something #multiverse of madness #wanda maximoff #doctor strange in the multiverse of madness #Scarlet witch #doctor strange in the multiverse of madness spoilers #multiverse of madness spoilers #doctor strange 2 spoilers #pro wanda maximoff

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thecanadianowl · 2 years

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While I have issues with the movie, man does it feel good that the film doesn't hide how horrible of a person Wanda is.

#anti wanda maximoff #doctor strange multiverse of madness #doctor strange in the multiverse of madness spoilers #doctor strange #anti wanda stans #doctor strange 2 spoilers

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kittenfangirl20 · 2 years

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Doctor Strange: Wanda, your children were not real.

Me sobbing uncontrollably: THEY WERE REAL TO HER!!!!!!!

#mcu #doctor strange 2 spoilers #multiverse of madness spoilers #wanda maximoff #scarlet witch #stephen strange #doctor strange

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1neverendingstories1 · 2 years

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Doctor Strange 2 Spoilers

Can I just say how much I love the frustratingly static humanity of Stephen Strange and the sheer relatability of his films?

Yeah I know I know they’re actually very complicated films packed with totally new concepts and artistry and reality. But Stephen is so human. He is an arrogant man, built upon a throne of validation and sorrow that he refuses to yield. He’s brilliant, he’s lonely, he’s stubborn, he doesn’t actually change. I haven’t seen him change. “Oh but ‘Stories he abandons the path to healing his hands and becoming a surgeon again! He sacrifices (what’s speculated to be) years of his life dying at the repetitive hands of Dormammu!” Yes that most certainly is a change in lanes but he’s still in the same car; the world around him changed but he didn’t. He’s still arrogant, and stubborn, and lonely, and gentle. He’s shockingly gentle.

I have heard a lot of people use this as a criticism on Stephen’s development. To be fair of course, he is in a superhero movie he should change mid movie into a man people could look up to in order to be rightfully seen as a hero, right? I don’t know. I find his lack of “practical” betterment as it should be. Doctor Strange 1, in my opinion as someone who has no life experience that can be likened to Stephen’s, wasn’t about Stephen becoming a hero, it was about a person letting the escutcheon of vanity bleed and become vulnerable. Preferably for niceness in this case. Because Stephen was already kind, he didn’t need to learn that. He was a surgeon who held peoples lives on the line and refused—refused—to be the one responsible for their detriment. “You want me to screw up my perfect record?” “When I became a doctor, I swore an oath to do no harm. And I have just killed a man! I am not doing that again.”

And after seeing MOM, this really drives the point that he has always shielded people from truly “seeing through him” as The Ancient One would say, and therefore hasn’t actually changed just that much further. He let himself be consumed with the god complex of a rich-successful-surgeon because if he was a god then he wouldn’t fail to save anyone, no one including himself could be unlucky. Like his sister, his sister who died when they were just kids playing on a lake. Who he doesn’t talk about. Who he “failed to save.” “You want to go back to the delusion that you can control anything. Even death.”

At the end of the film, he doesn’t go back. Obviously, it’s a first installment of the new marvel hero franchise. But then we see him in Ragnorkak, and could have, let’s face it, easily “killed” Loki by making him fall into giant monster’s stomach, but instead he talks it out with Thor and helps them find Odin and leaves them be. He only wanted to make sure there wasn’t a threat. Such a simple goal, find the threat (Loki, Thanos, a bullet in a man’s brain) and eliminate it (help Thor and Loki, give up the time stone and die again, rush into emergency surgery). And I don’t have the time to get into him in IW and Endgame, and the affects on his sense of authority and ego shown in the chapel in MOM, and quite frankly I don’t think I’d do it any justice. He held the fate of half the universe with his shaking hands and with the questions of “what if I just looked at one more reality, one more outcome, what would I have found? What if it didn’t have to be that way and I stopped too soon? I caused so much suffering, I know it was worth the survival but should I be forgiven?” I’m still trying to figure out how that would be for him.

Though, maybe it’s comparable to how he was before. Questions he might’ve had before we met him. “If I had just said no to the lake would Donna be alive? Should I be forgiven for failing to save her? If I save other’s lives, would I still have to feel guilty? Would I feel better? Would they be better if I helped?”

And then we see him in NWH. He sees Peter hurting, in need of help, this kid has his future threatened and needs it fixed, and there’s no one else to do that than Stephen. His goal was so simple. Help Peter. Fix it, for the kid, because he’s good and he deserves it. Stephen was prepared to forget Peter, that means Stephen wouldn’t get praise or gratitude he could appreciate from Peter. He was trying to be kind, and he was gentle. But then the spell messes up, and he’s stern and stubborn, and acting all knowing like a god scoffing at a mortals pleadings for a different judgement. And then Stephen has to help Peter, the only way he knows how, destruction. He’s the same as he’s always been.

And now MOM, where his only goal, the entire movie, was to help America Chavez. To protect this kid, not to fail her when she needed help, when she had no other options than to ask him. “Well I could help but so could 50 other people.” “Come on Wong. Hasn’t he been through enough?” Stephen did everything he could think of to protect her, even messing with pizza poppa because he harassed her about the food. He was increasingly gentle with her. She was scared, Stephen could definitely understand the feeling and Wong telling Stephen that America reminds him of a younger Stephen, kind of makes her feel like family. Something Stephen has been afraid of from the beginning with Christine, and after his sister, being vulnerable, taking care and being taken care of. The most dangerous thing Stephen can imagine; happiness.

Stephen doesn’t really change all that much to me. To me he’s the same man from the moment we met him, until perhaps when he fixes his watch with his hands. Not his magic tying a tie for a wedding that is self induced torture because he failed to be the man Christine needed. His hands, his scarred, still shaking hands, fixing a watch he chose to keep broken so he never forgot his shortcomings. Put it in a box: the threat of tempting what ifs. “What if I had opened up more? What if I had really went back to my old life? What if I missed the reality where I didn’t have to leave for five years and could’ve been with Christine?”

I love Stephen, he’s so human that he’s annoying. I am aware he has many faults, and I’m not saying anyone has to like him or agree with me. I just happen to think he’s neat. Or maybe I’m just a marvel narcissist apologist.

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