𝗔𝗡𝗔𝗟𝗬𝗭𝗔𝗧𝗜𝗢𝗡 𝗢𝗙 𝗘𝗟𝗜𝗭𝗔𝗕𝗘𝗧𝗛'𝗦 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗥𝗔𝗖𝗧𝗘𝗥/𝗛𝗘𝗥 𝗔𝗖𝗧𝗜𝗢𝗡𝗦 (𝗧𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗴𝘀 𝗬𝗼𝘂 𝗦𝗵𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗞𝗻𝗼𝘄 𝗕𝗲𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗛𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗢𝗻 𝗘𝗹𝗶𝘇𝗮𝗯𝗲𝘁𝗵)/𝗦𝗛𝗘 𝗔𝗟𝗦𝗢 𝗗𝗘𝗦𝗘𝗥𝗩𝗘𝗦 𝗔 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗖𝗘 𝗔𝗡𝗗 𝗡𝗢𝗧 𝗝𝗨𝗦𝗧 𝗨𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗖𝗘𝗦𝗦𝗔𝗥𝗬 𝗛𝗔𝗧𝗥𝗘𝗗!!
[𝗪𝗔𝗥𝗡𝗜𝗡𝗚 ⚠️ 𝙇𝙤𝙣𝙜 𝙋𝙤𝙨𝙩]
First of all, many many thanks to @chibimyumi, @grelleswife and @kurorealciel. Without their beautiful analyzations, filled with eloquence and great understanding, it would have been quiet hard for me, to go for it...
Also, the Lizzie hate, that I am talking about... Well, it's not like I have seen any Tumblr fans, hating on her, recklessly, till now. In fact, I have find so many people who actually sympathize with what Lizzie went through. I am just sharing this note, based on my experience with Facebook fans (hope you don't mind) and if you find any mistakes with my note, then feel free to correct me :)!
To all those people, who think that Lizzie is a crazy bitch for choosing Ciel's side, instead of Our Ciel and also about the fact that she would have wished Ciel to come back to her, three years back, in the story, instead of Our Ciel. I dare you, all, to do something...
But before that... Let me say something, as well.
What I will be saying, shall be broken down into 7 parts. This includes:
1) Elizabeth's Bad Traits and Good Traits/ Her Character Development
2) Comparison Between Angelina/ Madam Red & Lizzie
3) Elizabeth and OCiel's Friendship
4) Elizabeth and OCiel's Guilts/ Elizabeth's Dilemma
5) Was Elizabeth Happy After Ciel came back?/ Does Elizabeth's Guilts Change Anything?/ Elizabeth's Obsession with 'love'
6) Dare Time
1) Elizabeth's Bad Traits and Good Traits/ Her Character Development:
Elizabeth is indeed selfish, childish, crybaby, pushy and is obsessed with everything cute and girlish. It's all true and canon. About the time when she threw the precious Phantomhive Ring, before throwing it, she didn't even consider that the ring may break, if she threw it, and well, it broke (Please keep in mind, that she didn't intentionally, want to break the ring. It was an accident, but she intentionally threw it). But... There is more to her than just those things. She surely has more qualities to her than just these! Obviously, all the Black Butler characters have both good and bad sides. Elizabeth is no exception either.
Even if, she is indeed self centered, she is still obedient, loving, strong, skilled, friendly, and somewhat kind, innocent (well after what she did, she isn't innocent or the kindest at all, but at least, she was, and she would have done her best, to cheer up any of her friends/fiance with whatever she could do, in her power), daughter, of Francis, who unfortunately got into a situation where she had to choose one person. One can argue, if she is really obedient? Well, I will say that we have seen her being obedient, until the time when she ran away from home. But did her parents play an active role in stopping her from staying in that cult? Well no. Only her brother tried to do so. Also, at the same time, we, as readers, have really less clues about Elizabeth's parents, since there wasn't much screen timing on them. So, we can't really blame the parents, since we know really less.
She isn't the type of person who will be jealous of others' happiness or will wish ill of others. She may be ready to harm someone, if they try to interfere or hurt her dear ones, though. Also, remember how she fought the zombies, in her underwear? Like, if she was only selfish, then, definitely she wouldn't have learned sword fighting (not saying that she can defy her mother XD), since it's not lady-like or cute and also she wouldn't have fought in her underwear, if it wasn't for the boy, she was in love with... (Imagine how much embarassing, and frustrating, it must have been for Elizabeth to fight in her underwear)
Now, the good traits that I picked about her. Well, I can't say how many of them are still left in her. Since we do know, she underwent a great character development. And I don't really think that now she is as childish or immature as before. The last time when we saw her, she broke down with guilt. Now, I am looking forward to what she is going to do next. How come, only a few people have noticed her great character development? While most are out there, always picking out her faults, as if she's the only one with faults 🙄. Weren't you surprised after seeing how much changes she went through, over the years, and how Yana improved her ways of writing Elizabeth, from an annoying pushy brat, to a much sincere complex badass (still somewhat annoying) brat?
2) Comparison Between Angelina/ Madam Red & Lizzie:
So, I kind of thought of comparing her with Madam Red, since someone brought that up... But maybe, I will pick this topic, more elaborately, some other time. Now, I will just give some simple points. Those are:
a) Madam Red and Lizzie have lots of differences in their actions, situations and tragedies. I dare say that Madam Red went through a lot more than anything, Lizzie went through. But it doesn't mean that Lizzie went through nothing. Both of them went through some unforeseen shit!
b) Madam Red, for her despair, without realizing, started committing crimes and then kept going on with it, as if it's ok, with the help of Grelle. Lizzie didn't commit a crime, yet.
c) So, maybe, these two have one thing in common. That is: Everything is resolved around them, most of the time. It's actually quite true. But... At the same time, one huge difference is that whatever tragedy/misfortunes/unrequited love, Madam Red, went through, and also, the fact that she became a criminal, she never blamed herself, for anything but always blamed the situations, the people, who had the gifts that she didn't have or lost. She always played the victim role, even while dirtying her hands (based on her cinematic record). But, Lizzie had blamed herself, after what she did. She knows that she also plays a guilty role and questions her loyalty and love for her fiance. But, we had really less screen timing of Madam Red (compared to Lizzie) and what we saw was... Her, throwing herself to balls for she wanted to forget Vincent and then marrying a kind man, but still she couldn't get over her childish love for Vincent. In fact, I will say, her obsession with Vincent. Well, Lizzie is (or was) also quiet obsessed with Ciel, but at the same time, unlike Madam Red, she also got along with Ciel, quiet well and it's not just the fact that she had a crush on Ciel, but she even kept tiny details about Ciel, on her mind (You know, like Ciel & Lizzie were really good friends but Madam Red hardly even knew Vincent, but fell for him, for his kind compliments, to her). But... Ciel is supposed to be her fiance, so it's no biggie :). But that obsession is also a major reason why she couldn't realize that it wasn't Ciel, who came back, that day, anyways.
I can't really say that any of them knows the meaning of love (but, hey, even I am having trouble with this thing called 'love' anyways). At least one of them admitted it.
3) Elizabeth and OCiel's Friendship:
The future marriage between Elizabeth and Ciel was something that was arranged by their parents, and Elizabeth was always taught to be faithful to her fiance. So, their parents are at fault, for leaving these kids to hang out and play, without OCiel, back then. And also, it's not like Elizabeth was truly in love with Ciel, since, from her childhood, she was taught to 'love' this boy and not actually feel it from her heart. If you talk about why Lizzie didn't play with OCiel, along with Ciel, well it's not really her fault. First of all, OCiel was sick, so he wasn't supposed to play outdoors, right? Well, then the parents of the twins'/Elizabeth's, should have made arrangements for all of the children to play indoors, sometimes, as well. But so far, have we seen them do that? Hell no. They were but children, so you can't possibly blame Ciel and Lizzie for leaving OCiel and play, outside, since they were supported by all the adults around them and most probably, didn't even know how it feels to be left out... I am pretty sure that when Lizzie and Ciel used to play together, OCiel was not the only one who was left out. Pretty sure, even Edward was left out. (Maybe someday, we may see Edward and OCiel, as kids, hanging out with each other, as friends, before all those shitty disasters happened.)
In the present, even if it's really a little bit, Elizabeth does care for OCiel. Those three years of relationship was not for nothing! Obviously, that relationship meant something for both OCiel and Elizabeth. And also, they are cousins, who just didn't have that much bond as kids, but later, they indeed had some bond. We could at least see them being friends again, if it isn't too late...
4) Elizabeth and OCiel's Guilts/ Elizabeth's Dilemma:
Both Elizabeth and OCiel are guilty. It's not like OCiel is completely innocent here. He is the one who lied for personal reasons. When Elizabeth chose Ciel's side, even knowing (I am pretty sure, she did know) that Ciel was framing his brother for the thing that he didn't do, yes, she didn't do the right thing. But she had to choose one. She was put in a situation, where she had to choose but one. She isn't the fiancee of both. Also, for Elizabeth, would it be the fair thing to do, to choose OCiel's side, who lied to her for 3 years? I mean, OCiel definitely protected her and supported her for 3 years. But still. First of all, for three years, she spent time with OCiel, without even realizing that her real fiance is long dead... It would have been unfair for Ciel, with whom she spent most of her childhood with and who is also her real fiance. People would be out there, saying, that ‘ Lizzie is being greedy and chasing the alive one, who isn't even her real fiance, since he is but alive and Ciel is but a zombie now, who is dependent on others' blood...’ Lizzie, having to choose any one of their sides, isn't something that was going to be fair and square, and a kind decision, at all! It was going to be the same result in the manga, but if she chose OCiel's side, then maybe she would have gotten less hatred by certain fans 😑. Still it wouldn't change the fact that in the story, she won't be any saint or anything, for choosing him.
Also, one other thing is that Lizzie didn't choose Ciel's side, for she is only selfish and felt betrayed. Those aren't definitely the only reasons!! She knew she had to choose one, and she didn't want Ciel to die again! She felt guilty that she was living in a lie and went with it, for three years, without even questioning it. Since she couldn't be the faithful, loyal fiancee that she thought she was and was taught to by her elders, and since she was scared by the thought of Ciel dying, that's why she was compensating, by, at least doing what Ciel wanted to do (whether it is right or wrong) or help him voluntarily. But that doesn't mean that she was enjoying the wrongdoings that Ciel was doing. She didn't even smile with Ciel, in the current timeline (maybe there wasn't anything to smile about), like she did with OCiel, or Ciel in the past. She had to be silent, since she didn't know what else to do. Obviously, she called OCiel a liar, in front of many people, which affected OCiel, both mentally and his status. I, personally, think that that was the only thing that Lizzie did, for her own feelings, for the fact that OCiel lied to her and she felt betrayed. So, Lizzie did everything, like fighting Sebastian, then pointing her fingers at OCiel, all those things, on her own. For now, we have nothing from Ciel's point of view, in the manga. So, obviously, Ciel threatening Lizzie to do this and that, are just theories. Nothing more than that. But other than that, framing OCiel, was something that must have been originally done by Ciel and Undertaker, through Blavat! To me, it was like Lizzie was literally punishing herself by not saying anything after confronting OCiel and letting Ciel/Blavat do the framing...
5) Was Elizabeth Happy After Ciel came back?/ Does Elizabeth's Guilts Change Anything?/ Elizabeth's Obsession with 'love':
I bet that she wasn't happy after Ciel's return. Like why will she? When she clearly believed the fact that Ciel was indeed alive for 3 years? For whom, will she feel happy, now? And also, it is true that she wouldn't have bothered that much, if OCiel died, instead. For... Whom will you care for the most? Your boyfriend or your boyfriend's brother?
Even if she felt horrible for the fact that she would have indeed preferred Ciel, over OCiel, three years back, it really doesn't change the fact that she still chose Ciel over OCiel, 3 years after. Yes, she did it again. She is selfish, indeed, as you can say. But, still she has much more complex reasons and complex feelings, for choosing Ciel over OCiel, now, than before. Her feeling horrible about it, doesn't obviously downgrade her actions or make her the victim, here... What was damaged, was irreversible and nothing can undo anything, now. The damage has already been made, and I sure want to see someone take a different turn and make things somewhat right.
Three years back, she really did accept the person, who just said that they are her real fiance, without questioning anything, simply, because she was told that Ciel was back. She didn't have any obvious reasons to believe that the boy who came back, three years before, is her Real fiance. She could question him or she could even notice changes in his memories and behavior. Still she brushed it all off, for her sake. For it's better to accept the fact that your man is alive and not dead, even subconsciously knowing that it may not really be him, right? It's normal and it's understandable. But, yeah, at the same time, it's kind of toxic, for both parties: Party A, who is lying and trying their best to be someone else, and Party B, who is believing it, even knowing that something is wrong and yeah, I feel like that she was obsessed with the idea of 'love' and just did the things that she was taught by her elders. But please remember that, Lizzie isn't only obsessed with the idea of 'love' or with the idea of having or being a fantastic fiance/fiancee. It was also something that she was taught by her parents, society from the very beginning.
Now, the person, whom you have the most bond with, well wouldn't you wish that person to come back as the one survivor, from an accident? Even if it's really cruel and a cold wish, isn't that something like a basic human instinct? When you, especially know, that only one person was able to survive the disaster? Well, to me, it feels like a natural instinct.
6) Dare Time:
Finally, the dare! I am going to give you three dares. (Read them and comment below, about your opinions, honestly :D!)
1) Imagine that you have two friends, X & Y. One of them, say, X, is supposed to be your future bride/groom and the other one, Y, is your friend, but you aren't that close to each other or share anything to each other as much as you do with X. So, all of a sudden, on a special, happy event, of some sort, you heard that both X and Y died, in an accident. You are shocked and it's too hard for you to believe it and accept it. Slowly, you start accepting it, eventually, since there seems no hope of them coming back... But, then, one month after the misfortune, you suddenly heard that one of your friends came back, as the only survivor. So... Who is the person that you desperately want to be the survivor and actually be happy about it? X or Y?
2) After the accident, you have spent three years, happily, with the person who came back. You thought that this was love and happiness, except the fact that this person acted really differently than how they used to act before. One day, you heard that this person isn't the person whom you thought they were. You are put into a situation where you have to choose one of your friends, or you will be a traitor to both of them. Whom will you choose? X or Y?
3) This dare has nothing to do with the first two. So, don't consider the first two dares for this.
So, you are not happy with what Lizzie did, right? So, in your opinion, what do you think Lizzie should have done, instead of choosing Ciel, that would have been the right for all, or at least for her?
My Bottom Line: You can hate Lizzie, all you want. You don't necessarily need a reason to hate a character and also, hating a character, even, for the most silliest reason, is also fine. But keep that hatred to yourself, until you have a logical and understanding reason for spreading that hatred to social media or wherever. If you want to call Elizabeth names or slang, on the internet, then do it, after getting the manga, completely. After learning both, OCiel and Elizabeth's point of view, depths and not just the surface part of their actions!
So, my most favorite character isn't really Lizzie (You can guess, if you want :P). But, I am also someone who is neutral, when it comes to Lizzie or any other characters. And, I just noticed how Lizzie was getting so much undeserved hatred, most of the time, and how only a few people noticed her character development. Lizzie is not perfect, we get it. But, one thing that I know is, that, Elizabeth was written in a much realistic way, just like any other young teenage girls, who are privileged but had strict lessons, and also at the same time, learned how to be sweet and innocent, and well, is there any human, who aren't selfish? Well there's a degree to it... Everything may be resolved around her, most of the time, but not all the time! To me, I feel like OCiel and Lizzie are so human. Both of them have this human complex thing, which I can understand and actually relate to! Also, Lizzie's actions are something that any true Black Butler fans would understand! You don't want to sympathize with her? Then fine! But her point of view is also something that needs to be understood and considered!! After all, in everything, there are always two different stories/sides that need to be considered, right?
That was the actual reason why I went for this long post. But anyways, I am looking forward to getting to know your opinions. Have a nice day!
I loved seeing your thoughts on Corpse Party and treatment of their characters (such as Yuka) in response to one of your asks, so I was wondering… How did you feel about BoS? I personally feel like it was the most interesting of any of the spin offs/sequels. I have plenty of issues with it (like many overtly sexualized parts) but storywise—the time loop idea was intriguing and seeing the characters try to desperately “rewrite” their fates to only be thwarted was fascinating. Also, do you have any thoughts on Kizami?
Sorry for the long ask but thanks for reading!!! 😊
You don't have to apologize for sending a long ask! I actually love answering stuff like this, it gives me an opportunity to organize the way I think about things in order to share them (and I enjoy when people also get to share their own opinions with me) :D
As for how I feel about BoS... Keep in mind that I haven't been able to play BoS myself nor have I watched a playthrough in a couple of years - but, I agree with the sentiment that out of the spin offs/sequels, it was probably the most intriguing. It was very much an opportunity for the devs to go deeper overall into the different stories and possibilities of Heavenly Host, and you can tell it was something the dev's were interested in. I loved that we got to know a little more about the characterization of some of the Kisaragi character's that we didn't click into place before - like Morishige's coping mechanism being a direct result of the darkening and not him naturally being a weirdo, Mayu's determination to reunite with him, and Yui being so knowledgable of the ghost stories of Kisaragi because she might have literally lived through one.
Part of the reason why BoS worked so well, is because instead of handing us a bunch of information that was never foreshadowed beforehand (*cough*Blood Drive*cough*) we were being handed a more thorough exploration of events that had already happened. Like, the Byakudan chapter? Not only were they some of the first corpses that Yoshiki and Ayumi come across in Blood Covered, two of the students are minor antagonists, and they're heavily featured in one of the extra chapters. Them getting a main story chapter in BoS was a logical conclusion.
Not to mention, I'm absolutely obsessed with the time loop idea to the extent that I wish the first game was written with it in mind. If it had turned out that the first game was actually their final loop, where the Kisaragi kids finally succeed in getting things right this time and escape, it would open up so many more possibilities for the devs to explore - especially in regards to Blood Covered because good god do they like to milk the success of that game with how many times they’ve rereleased it. Though, I’m not surprised they didn’t because I’m pretty sure the time loop concept in BoS was only supposed to be a one-off idea that allowed them to further explore the depths of Heavenly Host which ultimately surprised them with how successful it was.
My only true criticisms with BoS were:
Like you said, we did NOT need the uncomfortably sexual parts. Literally none of the Corpse Party games do.
There was some missed opportunities in mixing up the pairs inhabiting the spaces further to explore the different friendships of our main cast, but I can’t really complain about that when a lot of BoS was wish fulfillment/lore.
Missing out entirely on whatever the hell Satoshi was doing in Heavenly Host, especially since we know that he retained his memories of the previous loop. You can take this as me complaining because he got so little screen time and he’s my favorite character, but I’m CAPTIVATED by the potential of a chapter where he’s desperately trying to use his knowledge to save everyone only for Heavenly Host to actively get in his way every single time.
I’m gonna put the rest under the cut because this is getting LONG
Now onto what I think of Kizami... Truthfully, my opinion of him is very mixed. BUT I can say that he’s a surprisingly complex character for how little screen time he gets in comparison to everyone else.
To start off, Kizami is clearly written to be your textbook stereotypical psychopath. He’s manipulative, extremely egocentric, and violent to the extent that he was apparently mutilating animals and nearly beating other kids to death in Elementary School. He continuously makes poor decisions and rarely learns from his mistakes due to his inability to empathize with others, feels as if other’s owe him something because they can’t understand his violent impulses, and seemingly can’t comprehend that love can be anything other than enabling him. All in all, he’s a completely awful person hidden behind a pretty face.
I call him stereotypical, because he’s your cliché horror movie clinical psychopath. He fills out the usual checklist of being initially charming, secretly axe-crazy, and almost completely unable to empathize. However, I can’t tell if his portrayal is an intentional tragedy or the usual horror movie trope demonization of an often misunderstood disorder. His characterization flip flops frequently between stereotypes and real life symptoms. By this, I mean he flips between horror movie axe-murderer and someone with a real disorder (though I doubt the devs would ever actually dive deep into research on it lmao).
Realistically, not all psychopaths are violent monsters. Yeah, they’re different in drastic ways most neurotypical people cannot really comprehend but that doesn’t negate the fact that they exist and they’re not all stereotypical murderers. Many want to fit in, which is why they adopt “socially acceptable” behaviors and personalities - there’s an understanding you can’t act on certain impulses otherwise you’re going to end up in trouble or alone. I bring this up because Kizami also displays this understanding and want to fit in.
Outside of Heavenly Host, Kizami is considered to “suppress his violent urges” and makes himself appear pleasant and reliable, if not immensely arrogant (but able to get away with it). For someone who leads us to believe that he DESPISES the ‘masks’ people wear, he’s easy to adopt one of his own to fit in with the rest of society. He tells himself that it doesn’t matter if he’s alone as long as he’s number one, but again, why adopt that mask in the first place then? Hell, even his future dream in his official profile is to create an amoral society to relieve peoples pain (which is... immature and fitting of a 16 year old whom I suspect never actually got a proper understanding of what the hell is wrong with him).
This all culminates in that Kizami desperately wants to fit in and is overwhelmingly aware that he, without a “mask”, cannot ever fit in. He despises that, but understands. Inside Heavenly Host, that “mask” gets removed when he slips up (the incident involving Ryosuke’s death) and he. loses. his. shit. In the manga it becomes more obvious that he’s aware that he’s crossed the line of no return - he’s killed people and can’t return to normal society. He latches onto Yuka because she believes in the “mask” and when his ‘true self’ is revealed to her, he again, flips the fuck out.
It leads me to wonder that had it not been for Heavenly Host, if he’d be able to lead as normal of a life as he possibly could and get some proper help with whatever shit he had going on... His situation actually reminds me quite a bit of a character from “The House in Fata Morgana” who struggles with sadistic and murderous tendencies and general disregard for human life, but still desires to live like a normal man. He ultimately latches onto a woman as a tether for his sanity and any sense of normalcy, but feels no actual love for her. It’s interesting.
Also this isn’t me going “boohoo he’s so misunderstood :(. my poor little meow meow”, Kizami is very much so an asshole character who ultimately gets his comeuppance. I just think he’s complex and there’s a lot more to him. Oh! Also I REALLY don’t dig the portrayal of his relationship with Yuka, because it has an uncomfortable predatory undertone that I’m pretty sure has to do with Yuka being the devs conduit for their fetishes.