#epic iii discourse

[amatalefay]

Epic III and Poetry

A popular complaint I’ve seen  about the Epic III Broadway changes is that the older version is “more poetic.” As a poet, that bothers me because the Broadway version is poetic, too, just less attention-drawing to its own language. And thinking about what the differences actually are, I realized something:

Concept Album/NYTW Epic III is an epic poem. Broadway Epic III isn’t —it’s a lyric poem. Not just in the sense that it’s lyrics to a song, but as a different genre entirely. And they are both excellent examples of their respective genres.

So, what’s the difference between epic and lyric poetry?

Epic poetry is a long narrative in verse that deals with gods and heroes, often making use of elaborate extended metaphors and evocative epithets to describe characters and events from an observer’s perspective. Ancient Greek examples include the Iliad and the Odyssey.

Lyric poetry is a) shorter, b) focuses on the poet’s own experience and state of mind rather than a narrative, and c) uses personal pronouns and emotional, relational language rather than descriptive epithets. The most famous Ancient Greek example of a lyric poet is Sappho.

Looking at the text of each version of Epic III, we can see these different techniques and priorities in play:

Orpheus uses epithets liberally in all the Epics, NYTW and Broadway, usually to describe Hades, but not always. Epic II is a masterclass in epithets:

King of diamonds, king of spades / Hades was king of a kingdom of dirt / Miners of mines, diggers of graves (Concept/NYTW)

King of silver, king of gold / And everything glittering under the ground / Hades is king of oil and coal / and the riches that flow where those rivers are found (Broadway)

King of mortar, king of bricks / The River Styx is a river of stones (Both)

Concept/NYTW’s Epic III opens with three stanzas of epithet-heavy language (king of iron, king of steel and Hades is king of the scythe and the sword) and uses them to build up an extended metaphor contrasting king and man, hard and soft, hammer and nail. It then goes on to describe in exquisite detail the scene of Hades first seeing and falling in love with Persephone:

But even that hardest of hearts unhardened Suddenly when he saw her there Persephone, in her mother’s garden The sun on her shoulders, the wind in her hair

The smell of the flowers she held in her hand And the pollen that fell from her fingertips And suddenly Hades was only a man With the taste of nectar on his lips

I, too, wish these stanzas had been kept—they’re absolutely beautiful. They are also wholly descriptive and predominantly physical. Hades’ emotions are abstracted and distanced from the scene. Persephone has no interiority whatsoever. It is a sonorous, metaphor-rich, but acutely third-person account of what happened.

This distance makes sense given Orpheus’ role in the NYTW production. He is an observer, a witness, an activist. He is deeply attuned to the injustices of what is happening around him and uses his poetry to share his observations of those injustices with the world. What he lacks is attunement to the emotional needs of other people, especially Eurydice. The triumph of his Epic is piercing commentary, making Hades see the consequences of his actions and just how different he has become from the man who first fell in love with Persephone.

Broadway’s version keeps the epithets limited to the first few lines (king of shadows, king of shades / Hades was king of the underworld). Orpheus doesn’t linger on physical description. The point is not to retell the story, but rather, to reframe it. Because Orpheus drops a bomb at the end of this section. He abandons the third person and introduces an “I”:

I know how it was because he was like me / A man in love with a woman

(Side note: The language in the first section of Broadway Epic III is very plain, but the poetry is still there! I partially blame Patrick Page—not in a bad way!—for interjecting in the middle of the first stanza, because when you put the text in quatrains, some gorgeous slant rhymes and vowel resonance shows up:

King of shadows, king of shades Hades was king of the underworld But he fell in love with a beautiful lady who walked up above in her mother’s green field

He fell in love with Persephone who was gathering flowers in the light of the sun and I know how it was because he was like me A man in love with a woman

I’ll admit some of the lines in isolation are not very good. I don’t like a man in love with a woman, but I’d say it has roughly the same quality as all that he loves is a woman / a woman is all that he loves, and the benefit of only taking up one line instead of two.)

Then come the la la la las, much earlier in Broadway than in NYTW because they have a new significance that completely changes the context of Orpheus’ song. Orpheus asserts “he was like me” and then proceeds to vocalize the exact feeling that Hades had without words. He then addresses Hades directly, in second person—something NYTW only does in the very last stanza—using the language of his own declaration of love. This is important because it shows that Orpheus isn’t just putting himself in Hades’ shoes—he’s putting Hades in his own. The moment of connection, of empathy goes both ways.

And the language of that love? It’s just as rich as the Persephone in her mother’s garden stanza, but the focus is not on exterior detail, but interior:

You didn’t know how and you didn’t know why but you knew that you wanted to take her home You saw her alone there against the sky It was like she was someone you’d always known

And the slant rhymes? The assonance and consonance? *chef’s kiss*

It was like you were holding the world when you held her Like yours were the arms that the whole world was in And there were no words for the way that you felt So you opened your mouth and you started to sing

Orpheus‘ thesis (”he was like me”) adds new context to the last section of the song, whose words are almost identical to the NYTW version. When Broadway Orpheus sings what has become of the heart of that man, he’s talking about himself as well. What would become of his own heart if he were to become like Hades? His moment of insight into Hades fears and weaknesses becomes a confession of his own insecurities:

See how he labors beneath that load afraid to look up and afraid to let go

and

He’s grown so afraid that he’ll lose what he owns But what he doesn’t know is that what he’s defending is already gone

There’s a prescience to these lyrics when applied to Orpheus. Because this is a predestined tragedy, Orpheus has already lost Eurydice. And while walking out of Hadestown, his greatest fear is that Eurydice won’t be following him—that he’ll lose what he owns. And there’s another parallel: Hades is afraid to look up, while Orpheus is afraid to look back and afraid to keep going.

The final stanza differs only slightly between the two songs:

Where is the man with his hat in his hands Who stands in the garden with nothing to lose? (NYTW)

Where is the man with his arms outstretched To the woman he loves, with nothing to lose? (Broadway)

Again, the NYTW lyrics are descriptive and external, while the Broadway lyrics are emotional and relational. Epic poetry and lyric poetry.

And, while the songs are called “epics,” as befits the son of Calliope, the Muse of Epic Poetry, the lyric form has an Orpheus connection as well: traditionally, lyric poems were sung to the accompaniment of a lyre.

In conclusion, both Epic IIIs are valid. Neither one is more poetic than the other. They’re just different kinds of poetry.

#long post #hadestown #hadestown nytw #hadestown broadway #epic iii #epic iii discourse #poetry #epic poetry #lyric poetry #original post

[river-styxs-river-of-stones]

Epic III 2017 or Epic III 2019?

#Indigo posts #hadestown #discourse #epic III #hadestown discourse #Epic III discourse #hadestown the musical #hades #hermes #persephone #orpheus #eurydice #Hades hadestown #Persephone Hadestown #Orpheus hadestown #Eurydice Hadestown #Hermes Hadestown

[wonder-worker]

Within this broader condemnation of [Alice Perrers'] behaviour, a number of specific themes can be identified. These include sexual immorality, political influence, and [...] numerous and repeated references to greed and avarice. This is particularly striking in two literary representations which may have been inspired by Alice: Chaucer’s Wife of Bath and, most compelling, William Langland’s Lady Meed in his allegorical poem Piers Plowman, a character whose name has become a byword for venality. Meed, like Alice, established her presence at the royal court and acted as a counsellor to the king, but was eventually banished on accusations of being a whore and undermining the workings of law and justice. In particular, in introducing Meed to his audience, Langland describes her hands as covered with rings of the “purest perreize,” a word meaning precious stones or jewels, which would seem to be a play on Alice’s surname, Perrers, and thus directly identifying her with Meed. Chaucer also notably named the wife in the Wife of Bath Alisoun, raising the possibility that she was in part based on his direct contemporary Alice Perrers. The Wife had a husband named Jankyn, similar to the name of Alice’s first husband, Janyn, and was a businesswoman with a mercantile and urban background, echoing Alice’s own early life in London. The Wife was notoriously prolific in her lustful desires, but invariably they had a financial motivation, fusing, in the words of Paul Strohm, “the categories of economic and sexual assertiveness into a single epitome of contemporary male dread.”

-Laura Tompkins, '"Edward III's Gold-Digging Mistress": Alice Perrers, Gender, and Financial Power at the English Royal Court, 1360-1377", "Women and Economic Power in Premodern Courts" (edited by Cathleen Sarti)

#historicwomendaily #alice perrers #english history #edward iii #my post #geoffrey chaucer #to be clear 'being inspired by' doesn't mean 'being a direct analogue of' #so we obviously shouldn't (and Tompkins doesn't) look at it through that angle #also just to clarify - Langland's 'Lady Meed' is a little more complicated. #as per our current understanding of the chronology of his writing: #his 'A text' of Piers Plowman was most likely written in the late 1460s - almost a decade before the parliamentary proceedings against Alic #and thus cannot have been based purely on her but on a wider 'discourse of defamation focused on “problem” women' as Ormrod puts it #HOWEVER we know that Langland redrafted and massively edited the B and C texts from the book much later #and as Matthew Giancarlo and Gwilym Dodd have pointed out there are clear indications he was specifically influenced by Alice's #encounters with Parliament in the 1470s when it came to these texts #also forever loling at Chaucer naming The Wife 'Alisoun' and giving her a husband named Jankyn lmfao #that's hilariously on the nose #but also if they truly were inspired by Alice that's such an epic slay on her part #icon

[spiritunwilling]

Reading through epic iii discourse and getting tempted to jump in

#The Broadway version just does not compare sorry

[writeleg1ant]

Boris Pasternak's Doctor Zhivago: A Dissident Masterpiece or Propaganda Tool?

Outline of the Article:

I. Introduction A. Brief background on Boris Pasternak B. Overview of Doctor Zhivago controversy II. Boris Pasternak Boooks III. Early Life and Influences A. Pasternak's formative years B. Influences shaping his literary vision IV. Literary Innovations A. Doctor Zhivago's experimental style B. Complexity in language and structure IV. Notable Works A. Exploration of Doctor Zhivago, key themes B. Other significant works by Pasternak VI. Nobel Prize Nomination A. Pasternak's Nobel Prize nomination B. Consequences of the nomination VII. Political Landscape A. Soviet censorship during the Russian Revolution B. How political context influenced Doctor Zhivago IX. Controversial Article Angle A. Dissident masterpiece perspective B. Propaganda tool allegations X. Reception and Criticism A. Public and critical responses to Doctor Zhivago B. Varied opinions on Pasternak's intentions

XI. Impact on Literature

A. Doctor Zhivago's enduring influence B. Pasternak's contribution to Russian literature

XII. Burstiness and Perplexity in Storytelling

A. Maintaining intrigue through burstiness B. Handling perplexity for a dynamic narrative

XIII. Symbolism in Doctor Zhivago

A. Analyzing symbolic elements in the novel B. Implications of symbolism on the narrative

XIV. Conclusion

A. Summarizing perspectives on Doctor Zhivago B. Emphasizing the ongoing debate

XV. FAQs

A. Addressing common questions and misconceptions

I. Introduction

A. Boris Pasternak, a renowned Russian poet and novelist, left an indelible mark on literature. Born in 1890, his life unfolded against the backdrop of Russia's tumultuous history, influencing his literary endeavors. B. The controversy surrounding Pasternak's masterpiece, Doctor Zhivago, adds layers to his legacy. The novel, exploring love and life during the Russian Revolution, faced both acclaim and condemnation, making it a focal point of literary discourse.

II. Boris Pasternak Boooks

- "Doctor Zhivago" (1957) - Undoubtedly, Pasternak's most celebrated work, "Doctor Zhivago" is a sweeping epic set against the backdrop of the Russian Revolution. It explores the complexities of love, politics, and the human spirit. - "My Sister, Life" (1922) - This collection of poetry is considered a masterpiece of Russian Symbolism. Pasternak's verses showcase his early experimentation with language and his deep reflections on life and art. - "The Last Summer" (1934) - A semi-autobiographical novel, "The Last Summer" delves into the themes of love and creativity. It provides a nuanced glimpse into Pasternak's own experiences and struggles. - "Safe Conduct" (1931) - This collection of essays and reflections offers insights into Pasternak's thoughts on literature, art, and the tumultuous political landscape of his time. It's a valuable exploration of his intellectual depth. - "Selected Writings" (1978) - A posthumous compilation, this volume brings together a variety of Pasternak's works, including poems, essays, and translations. It serves as a comprehensive introduction to the breadth of his literary contributions.

III. Early Life and Influences

A. Boris Pasternak's formative years profoundly shaped his artistic sensibilities. Growing up in a household steeped in the arts and intellectual pursuits, he developed a keen awareness of the complexities inherent in human existence. B. Pasternak's unique literary vision was molded by a diverse range of influences, spanning from the rich tapestry of Russian Symbolism to the nuanced narratives of European literature. His early encounters with revolutionary ideals and profound reflections on the human condition became the foundational pillars of his later literary works.

IV. Literary Innovations

A. Doctor Zhivago stands as a testament to Pasternak's commitment to an experimental style. The novel's narrative structure, a seamless blend of poetry and prose, boldly challenged conventional norms, delivering a reading experience that remains distinctive and memorable. B. The intricate interplay of language and structure within Doctor Zhivago exemplifies Pasternak's unwavering dedication to pushing the boundaries of literary expression. His innovative approach not only defied convention but also invited readers to engage with the narrative on multiple intellectual and emotional levels.

V. Notable Works

A. While Doctor Zhivago holds a central place in Pasternak's literary achievements, exploring key themes within the novel reveals the profound depth of his storytelling prowess. B. Pasternak's literary repertoire extends well beyond Doctor Zhivago, encompassing significant works such as My Sister, Life, and The Last Summer. Each piece contributes to a nuanced understanding of the thematic preoccupations that defined his literary career.

VI. Nobel Prize Nomination

A. The 1958 Nobel Prize nomination brought both acclaim and controversy to Pasternak. Despite recognition by the Nobel Committee, the Soviet authorities' severe backlash underscored the political tensions surrounding his work. B. The far-reaching consequences of the Nobel Prize nomination had a profound impact on Pasternak's personal and professional life, emphasizing the intricate interplay between literature and politics during that period.

VII. Political Landscape

A. The pervasive Soviet censorship during the Russian Revolution cast a shadow over artistic expression. Pasternak's navigations through this politically charged landscape provide profound insights into the challenges faced by intellectuals in an era marked by ideological constraints. B. Unraveling the genesis of Doctor Zhivago within the broader political context sheds light on how Pasternak's portrayal of revolutionary events was both shaped and constrained by the prevailing Soviet ideology.

VIII. Controversial Article Angle

A. Viewing Doctor Zhivago as a dissident masterpiece aligns with Pasternak's intent to present an alternative narrative to the prevailing political ideology, challenging established norms. B. Allegations of the novel being a propaganda tool suggest a calculated intent, implying that Pasternak's work may have been strategically crafted to serve political ends, adding a layer of complexity to the ongoing discourse.

IX. Reception and Criticism

A. Public and critical responses to Doctor Zhivago have been diverse, reflecting the polarizing nature of the novel. While some hailed it as a masterpiece, others condemned it as subversive, contributing to the ongoing debate about Pasternak's intentions. B. Varied opinions on Pasternak's motivations add depth to the discourse, emphasizing the novel's dual role as a work of art and a political statement.

X. Impact on Literature

A. Doctor Zhivago's enduring influence extends beyond its initial publication. Pasternak's contribution to Russian literature is recognized as a distinctive voice that resisted conforming to ideological constraints. B. Examining how Pasternak's works influenced subsequent generations of writers illustrates the lasting impact of his literary legacy, transcending the confines of time and political ideology.

XII. Burstiness and Perplexity in Storytelling

A. Maintaining intrigue through burstiness ensures that Doctor Zhivago captivates readers. Pasternak strategically employs bursts of emotion and pivotal events, keeping the narrative dynamic and engaging. B. Handling perplexity, characterized by complexity and ambiguity, adds depth to the storytelling, encouraging readers to actively engage with the novel on intellectual and emotional levels.

XIII. Symbolism in Doctor Zhivago

A. Analyzing symbolic elements in Doctor Zhivago unveils layered meanings behind objects, events, and characters. Pasternak employs symbolism to convey nuanced messages within the narrative, enriching the reader's interpretative experience. B. Understanding the implications of symbolism adds a profound layer to the reader's interpretation of Doctor Zhivago's themes and characters, enhancing the overall literary experience.

XIV. Conclusion

A. Summarizing perspectives on Doctor Zhivago requires acknowledging the multiple interpretations that exist. The ongoing debate reflects the novel's enduring ability to provoke thought and discussion, ensuring its place in the literary canon. B. Emphasizing the ongoing debate underscores the significance of Doctor Zhivago as a work that continues to captivate readers and scholars alike, maintaining its relevance and impact over time.

XV FAQs

- Why was Dr. Zhivago controversial? - The controversy surrounding Doctor Zhivago stems from its depiction of the Russian Revolution, challenging Soviet ideologies. - Is Dr. Zhivago a banned book? - At certain points in history, Doctor Zhivago faced censorship, with Soviet authorities suppressing its publication due to its perceived dissent. - What is the message of Dr. Zhivago? - Doctor Zhivago explores themes of love, life, and the human condition against the backdrop of the Russian Revolution, offering a nuanced commentary. - How accurate was Dr. Zhivago? - While Doctor Zhivago is a work of fiction, Pasternak drew inspiration from historical events, providing a perspective on the Russian Revolution. - How did Doctor Zhivago impact Boris Pasternak's legacy? - Doctor Zhivago significantly contributed to Pasternak's legacy, solidifying his reputation as a literary giant and dissident voice in Russian literature. Read the full article

#atruestory #BorisPasternaknovels #ControversialportrayalinRussianliterature #DissentinSovietliterature #DissidentthemesinDoctorZhivago #Doctorzhivagocontroversypdf #Doctorzhivagocontroversysummary #DoctorZhivagopoliticalcritique #doctorzhivagosummary #drzhivagoending #drzhivagosummarybychapter #Historicallovestoriesinliterature #isdrzhivago #Pasternak'sliteraryimpact #Pasternak'srevolutionarynarrative #RussianRevolutioninfiction #RussianRevolutionliteratureanalysis #whathappenedtodrzhivago'sfirstwife #whathappenedtotonyaandsashaindrzhivago

[jonesyjonesyjonesy]

heyyy, this is my first ask ever on this page so I'm not exactly sure how to start this, so ill just get right to it from one jonesy/zeppelin stan to another.

Robert apparently wrote Carouselambra about him being frustrated with Jonesy and Jimmy not being there for him after his son karac passed away,,, the song itself is great inho, it's my favorite off of ittod besides in the evening. The situation was tragic enough on it own, but it also put a huge strain on the relationships between the band members, it seems like. I can't pretend I know a whole lot about that part of their history in particular, just wanted to hear your take on it.

Hello my dear!! Welcome to my asks! I hope it is a cozy and pleasant experience. You are always welcome, no matter how inane, as I myself am the queen of inanity (I'm claiming it here and now folks).

^^ look at these boys in their 30s (36, 34, and almost 32 respectively, dear god)

In Through the Out Door is generally pretty fascinating. 'Carouselambra' in and of itself I think is one of those tracks that if it had been deeper into the canon (as if Zep had been able to make more albums), it would have been openly considered a masterpiece. That's actually how I feel about the whole album, but...instead, it causes consternation.

The track itself is one of my favorites as well. It's like Space Jam but everyone's on drugs and having a midlife crisis and WOW it's good. The actual inspiration for the track, as you say, I think was a combination of the highs and lows of Zeppelin and this includes Karac's death and the aftermath. 'Carouselambra' was originally called 'The Epic' -- I like to imagine the epic poetry it was being likened too and if epic poetry was still written and consumed the way we consume Homer and Virgil, that Zeppelin would be a perfect candidate. 'Tales of Brave Ulysses' could never.

The general consensus is that 'The Epic' was renamed 'Carouselambra' because that's what being in Zeppelin was like. Around and around on this gaudy mechanical and in the process these tragic things were happening and you only got fast glances at them or missed out on important things. And in the case of Karac, I'm sure Robert was grappling with the fact he just wasn't around (and I believe he's said as much).

This culminating with Jonesy and Jimmle not being at the funeral, which at the time, Robert had apparently said to Richard Cole, “Maybe they don’t have as much respect for me as I do for them. Maybe they’re not the friends I thought they were.”

Which is understandable! I mean, anyone that close to you dying, let alone a child. You would want your friends there (...if Robert considered Jonesy a "friend" to me is debatable considering his supposed tongue-in-cheek offer to Lita Ford to be the bassist for Zep in '77, but I'm just a bitter Jonesy stan (and I have plenty of theories and ideas about the Jones/Plant dynamic)). From what I've read, Jonesy was on family holiday, I imagine continuing with Maureen and the girls in the RV they rented for the second leg of the '77 tour -- he stole away after the Oakland debacle and drove it up to Seattle (this is from a glancing in Mick Wall's When Giants Walked the Earth, which I'm currently reading). Can that man get any more precious? And Jimmy was...Jimmy, heroin and all, although he's been quoted saying "We were all mates. We had to give the man some space.”

Potentially illustrating this, Robert commented on this in 2005: “The other guys were [from] the South [of England] and didn’t have the same type of social etiquette that we have up here in the North that could actually bridge that uncomfortable chasm with all the sensitivities required … to console.”

By ITTOD, though, we have our "relatively clean" camp friends Jones and Robert leading the charge and, I hope, having some good heart to hearts and enjoying each others' company. I really do wish we had more from that time, of that dynamic because I think it's a really interesting blip on the timeline given their distance mostly (I believe Robert said in 1971 that he had just started becoming friends with Jonesy, which I don't find hard to believe considering their opposite natures).

And then you get 'Carouselambra', all the nonsense and the mayhem boiled down into "why the fuck are we doing this"-edness. The kids are getting older, the tour is now a slog, and now you've got back pain. Kind of a sad carousel at the end of the day. “The whole story of Led Zeppelin in its latter years is in that song, and I can’t hear the words," Plant said, regarding how his voice is mixed lower than the keyboard in the first half. And there they were, in their 30s, and punk was on the rise and let's be honest, rock n' roll has never been a "middle years" kind of game.

But TO ME, that adds to the theatricality, to the idea that everything WAS getting lost and muddled. It's a brilliant, most likely unanticipated homage in my mind and Led Zeppelin WAS theatrical for as much as it was about the music, it was about the mythos and fable as well.

As a side note, I really hate how ITTOD is talked about for the most part as this like "lame keyboard album" when in fact, if Zeppelin had continued, it would serve as an LZ III/HotH vibe to me in that they could do whatever they want so they did and wow it was great. That's just my opinion, though, and I can definitely chalk it up to bias and also my love for Jonesy's post-Zeppelin work that really showcased just how fucking marvelous he is.

oh my god this got so long how did this get so long

This is just my take...I'm sure many people would be ready to contest what I have to say and that's just fine. 'Southbound Saurez' is one of my favorite Zep tracks and I stand by it.

I hope this was worth the time, lovely. Thank you for appearing in the asks and I hope you return someday. It was really lovely to take a journey into the more "academic" side of Zep...turns out I know quite a bit and I'm pretty good at rustling through the interwebs to find all the quotes I wanted to locate!

Feel free to correct me or engage in discourse kindly. I don't have time for negativity, I just turned 26 after all.

let it be known this is literally 950 words

#just call this MY EPIC #christ #who knew i had so much to say #sidenote why is 34 like a hot age to be #just me? #i guess my ex was 34 when we started dating but like #no it can't be that #when your trauma speaks for you #anywayyyyy #ily #whilemyguitargentlyscreams #thank you for making my brain work #i'm writing this at 11pm #i hope it makes sense #led zeppelin #ask #answered #in through the out door #ittod #carouselambra #the epic #john paul jones #jonesy #robert plant #rp #jimmy page #john bonham #bonzo #zep academia #my new niche

[beardofkamenev]

20 and 24 for the history ask meme!!!

Thanks for the ask friend!

20. Who, if anyone, is your historical crush?

Asfjhakdfadjfhsj. Tbh, I don’t actually have a historical “crush” in the sense that I don’t feel the same feelings towards historical figures that I would towards real people I’ve actually had a crush on. But if I reaaaaaally had to pick one, I guess it would have to be Owen Tudor, the Ultimate Medieval Stud? I did write my Tonglr magnum opus on him lol. I guess the fact that there isn’t much concrete information on his appearance (“blessed with wonderful gifts of the body” and “tall and slender”) means I can project whatever physical ideals I want onto him lmao. I can’t say the same for Henry VII even though he’s one of my favourite historical figures because I know what he looked like and he’s just... he’s not ugly but he’s just not for me sis.

24. Who do you consider to be one of the most underrated historical figures?

HENRY VII OF COURSE. There are two main reasons why I think he’s underrated. One is that he’s undeniably overshadowed in the popular imagination by his predecessor and his son: his legacy hasn’t undergone the controversy and mass redemption narrative that Richard III’s has, nor did he cause nearly half the chaos and drama that Henry VIII did. Why read about boring shit like economics and trade, when you can read about epic battles, nephew-killing, and wife-chopping instead? The thing is, I don’t think ‘boring shit like economics and trade’ is a fair summary of Henry’s life and reign at all, which was actually filled with a lot of court politics and intrigue. I don’t study him because he was “hot”, but because I genuinely find him and his reign interesting. To be fair, I’ve always preferred political drama over action anyway so that’s probably why he appeals to me.

The other reason is that I think Henry’s many achievements and cultural contributions are often credited to other figures, like Edward IV, his wife and mother, or his son. By contrast, his flaws tend to be overemphasised compared to those of other 15th century rulers, with the exception of maybe Henry VI and Richard III (if you're not a Ricardian). Perhaps it’s because Henry VII is remembered as highly intelligent but ‘just’ an administrator, so he’s easily pigeonholed into the trope of a Machiavellian villain without the “Epic Warrior King” legacy to counterbalance that (because war is still cool in the Year of Our Lord 2021). Even Edward IV gained a reputation for avarice in his final years, but because of his popular legacy as an “Epic Warrior King”, his character isn’t tainted by his ruthlessness in the same way Henry VII’s is (unless Saint Richard of Gloucester is involved). Thomas Penn’s The Winter King helped popularise Henry VII for a while, but it did much to perpetuate the stereotype of Henry’s reign as “bleak”, “oppressive” and “Stalinesque” (wat) due to its overwhelming focus on his final years. I find this unfair because any ruler judged solely on their final years is going to come across as a total arsehole, and imho there are far worse kings to hate on than Henry VII. 

There’s also an undercurrent of English exceptionalism in WOTR historiography, which has often lead to Henry being vilified as a “foreigner” (even though he was half-English) or less commonly, being praised for his contributions to England’s “Manifest Destiny” to unite Britain which is just... no. There’s even an interview with George Osbourne (FUCK YOU) where he backhandedly refers to Henry as a “cultured Welshman” because he spoke fluent French (because the default Welshman is “uncultured” according to that Tory fuck). Anglocentric bias and xenophobia in historical discourse is an important conversation to have, but applying it to Henry VII is highly controversial on Tunglr dot com for some reason. I’ll still point it out because this is my blog and I DO WHAT I WANT.

(The history ask meme is still open!)

#history ask meme #lady-plantagenet #questions for the beard #owen tudor #henry vii #wars of the roses

[aboutanancientenquiry]

On Herodotus and Thucydides

The following very informative text is the review by Dr. Vasiliki Zali (https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2013/2013.07.18/) of an important collective work on the two great Greek historians ( Edith Foster, Donald Lateiner (ed.), Thucydides and Herodotus. Oxford; New York: Oxford University Press, 2012). It shows very well that the dominant view in contemporary scholarship is to see both Herodotus and Thucydides as the founders of the Western tradition of historiography.

“Hardly any justification is needed for the topic of this book. The relationship between Thucydides and Herodotus, the founding fathers of Western history, has always fuelled heated debates between scholars. It is still one of the most contested historiographical subjects and has become increasingly fashionable in the past few decades, which have seen the tables turned with the rehabilitation of Herodotus. This volume is the first book that targets specifically the interaction between the two historians.

The ‘Introduction’ furnishes a succinct review of the scholarly discussions on the relation between Thucydides and Herodotus and their reception in ancient and modern times, complemented with useful bibliography. It also sets out the purpose of the book ‘to make us better readers of both historians’, a task which ‘requires re-examination of Homer’s influence on historical narratives’ (p. 6). Finally, it outlines the essence of the various chapters.

The book is divided into three parts: ‘Part I: Methods of Reasoning’; ‘Part II: Common Themes’; ‘Part III: Reception’. Part I starts with Rutherford, who looks at structural techniques (scenic sequences, progressive iteration, ironic reversal) which are used by Herodotus and Thucydides (especially in his Sicilian narrative), and are borrowed from Homer. The paper affords an appealing opening to the volume, in particular as its first section provides a neat discussion of the relation between historiography and epic, and concludes that Herodotus and Thucydides are both historians and artists.

Stadter is concerned with Thucydides as a ‘reader’ of Herodotus and contends that, despite their differences, Thucydides admires Herodotus, knows his work, and perfects or rectifies some of his methods and claims. Thucydides is seen to reply to Herodotus in his handling of chronology and Herodotean events (Thermopylae and Plataea), in the opening of his history and in its first extended narrative on Corcyra. In the subsection about Corcyra, an interesting and delicate comparison of Thucydides’ Kerkyraika and Herodotus’ Croesus logos indicates a shared interest in foresight, historical action and the human situation.

The underexplored topic of the use, form and function of indirect discourse in Herodotus and Thucydides is next discussed by Scardino. This thought-provoking piece reveals a great variety of usages of indirect discourse (e.g. featuring in authorial introductory and closing formulae; introducing exchanges in direct discourse; reporting speeches on less important themes) and reinforces the case for rhetorical elaboration in Herodotus as well as bringing out similarities, and some subtle differences, in the historians’ employment of indirect speech. Scardino observes that the same standards of reliability apply to both direct and indirect speeches. Indirect discourse, very much like direct discourse, is equally subject to rhetorical elaboration and makes use of similar argumentative motifs. In the use of these two kinds of discourse there are both divergences (direct discourse: important material at crucial dramatic moments; indirect discourse: less intense emotional moments, synopsis and repetition of argumentation) and, most importantly, correspondences (dramatization, characterization, commentary on events). Hence, ‘one can consider both types of speech as functionally equal exegetical tools in historical representation’ (p. 94).

Rubincam argues for a link between Herodotus’ and Thucydides’ use of numbers and their respective authorial personae. Herodotus’ propensity to present different versions of stories and often conjecture on their reliability explains his fondness for providing impressive numbers and exhibiting his calculations. Thucydides, on the other hand, as he filters all the material he has collected and provides us with what he thinks is the most reliable information, presents us with ‘a deliberate policy decision to report as much numerical information as he had been able to obtain from his informants, even if its usefulness was limited by incompleteness’, and he does not ‘build beyond this by extrapolation’ (pp. 107-8). Three appendices usefully explicate and corroborate the argument. Numbers interestingly emerge as a narrative device which is part and parcel of an individual historiographical style and dependent on the situations, interests, abilities, temperaments and ideologies of each individual historian.

Stahl’s chapter on blind decisions that precede military deeds in Herodotus and Thucydides opens up Part II. Referring to two examples, Athens’ decision to invade Sicily in Thucydides and Xerxes’ decision to invade Greece in Herodotus, Stahl highlights the narrative emphasis on the blindness of the decision which brings about disaster in both cases, and detects even more specific common motifs: greed as primary motive for blind decision-making; futility of appeals to reason and established facts; neglect of sensible advice; yielding to supernatural guidance; measuring plans and warnings by their factual outcome; juxtaposing initial confidence/strength with eventual distress/weakness. In their treatment of most of these themes and the last one in particular, the historians recall Homer and, chiefly, his depiction of Agamemnon.

Lateiner discusses the use of oaths in Herodotus and Thucydides. Despite differences in their kinds and frequency, oaths are equally ineffective in both works as they all too often become liable to manipulation and are broken. That oath breaking causes retribution in Herodotus but not in Thucydides is a consequence of the different themes they narrate: ‘the former, a conflict sustained for ethnic deliberation against an alien culture; the latter, a bipolar, self-destructive rivalry for rank and hegemony fuelled by imperial greed’ (p. 181). Manipulation of oaths and their unpunished violation in Thucydides convey the disintegration of values in the context of the Peloponnesian War.

Foster argues that Thucydides uses Herodotus’ Thermopylae narrative as a pattern for his Pylos narrative, and she also considers Homer’s influence on both historians. In juxtaposing Herodotus’ narrative with the Iliad, Foster notices both similarities (e.g. Persian/Trojan disorder vs. Greek order in fighting, verbs of action) and innovation (Herodotus’ emphasis on explaining events). The historians’ battle narratives bear resemblances in terms of structure of action and explanation, but Thucydides’ narrative is also significantly different as it features Homeric descriptions of human psychology and the battlefield experience, and focuses on reversals of the roles and fortunes of the Spartans and Athenians. Thucydides deliberately links his narrative with Herodotus’ to underline the difference between the two wars. Particularly intriguing is Foster’s comment on political commentary underlying Herodotus’ Thermopylae narrative: ‘Herodotus’ politically charged descriptions of the final Spartan action aim to create hostility to the Persian leadership, sympathy for their doomed conscripts, and admiration for Spartan heroism’ (p. 200).

Blösel explores Thucydides’ narrative on Themistocles, whose portrayal should be juxtaposed with Themistocles’ complex depiction in Herodotus. The Thucydidean Themistocles is as patriotic as the Herodotean one. What differs though is the side Themistocles works for. In Herodotus he serves the interests of Athens and of all Greece. In Thucydides he cares for Athens only and helps develop its future empire. This attitude results in him being at odds with Sparta and the rest of the Peloponnese and therefore looks forward to Pericles’ similar attitude.

Munson sees Thucydides’ stance towards the Persians as a reaction to Herodotus’ depiction of his Persians. Thucydides is only concerned with Persians and non-Greeks to the extent that they have dealings with the Greeks. He focuses instead on the ethnic character of the Athenians and Spartans that caused the war. The Persian Wars feature in the political discourse of the Peloponnesian War but commonly are an ineffectual argument. The narrative of the Sicilian Expedition has parallels with Xerxes’ expedition against Greece and they both share an emphasis on the moral element with the punishment of hubris in each case. After Athens’ defeat in Sicily, Persia takes centre stage and decisively affects the outcome of the Peloponnesian War. But this Persia is not Herodotus’ great empire, under the complete control of the Great King. ‘It is rather the peripheral space of its most western provinces, where the king is present only as a removed authority (or potential constraint) in documents and diplomatic discourse…For the narrator Thucydides, the Persian satraps are simply pragmatic executives, careful with their investments…and eager to recuperate the revenues…from the cities in their provinces’ (p. 261).

A trio of chapters on the ancient Greek and Roman reception of the two historians rounds off the volume. Pelling examines the relationship between fourth-century rhetorical handbooks, the Rhetorica ad Alexandrum and Aristotle’s Rhetoric, and Herodotus and Thucydides. After carefully setting out his caveats and pointing out methodological problems (i.e. sparsity of rhetorical material pre-dating Herodotus and Thucydides, source of influence), Pelling detects similarities in pleas for alliances in the Rhetorica ad Alexandrum, Herodotus and Thucydides – with variations depending on the circumstances – and suggests that the Rhetorica ad Alexandrum reflects fifth- century expectations. A combination of the expedient with the just in symbouleutic oratory, recommended by Aristotle for the success of speeches of this kind, can be traced in both historians (notably in Thucydides the references to moral considerations are reduced as the war progresses). ‘The difference may be that the unpersuasiveness of such [i.e. moral] arguments is often felt in Thucydides, while in Herodotus the speakers may seem to be getting it right. It is less clear that they are always getting it right because those arguments are moral’ (p. 302).

Baragwanath tackles the influence of Herodotus and Thucydides on Xenophon’s Hellenica. Her discussion contributes to raising Xenophon’s stock as a historian and his Hellenica as a work of history. Xenophon’s combination of Herodotean and Thucydidean elements helps him increase his authority and define the nature of his work. Alongside continuity there is difference and originality, seen, for example, in a new definition of greatness. For Xenophon what is worthy of narration ( axion) is not necessarily linked to power as in Herodotus and Thucydides, but is primarily an ethical accomplishment, and it further includes an individual’s character and leadership qualities. Two specific examples, the speeches of Procles of Phlius ( Hell. 6.5.38-48; 7.1.2-11), showcase a comparable merging of Herodotean and Thucydidean features. In both speeches the expedient is combined with the ethical, and the latter is represented by the friendship, and consequently the joined leadership, of Athens and Sparta. ‘With its ethical focus, Procles’ idealizing Herodotean/Solonian/Socratic vision, which stands in tension with the profound sense of the absence of progress that is generated by the way Hellenica both starts and ends with Thucydides, proposes a way through the impasse’ (p. 340).

Samotta’s chapter provides an overview of the impact of Herodotus and Thucydides on Roman republican historiography (third to first centuries). The histories of Herodotus and Thucydides – either through the works of the Western Greek historians or through copies in Rome acquired as spoils of war –considerably influenced the Roman historians. The Roman historians used both these classical models, adapted them and departed from them to enhance their authority and indicate the superior nature of their work. The process of reception was greatly affected by the political and historical context in the different phases of Roman historiography. In the first century B.C., a time of major literary production, as a consequence of the rise of Atticism and in a context where ‘the Romans could identify themselves deeply with the Thucydidean issues of exercising power while trying to uphold civic morality’ (p. 372), the Roman historians showed particular fondness for Thucydides.

This volume comprises a selection of significant contributions not only to the growing scholarship on the subject but also to the survey of the narrative techniques of each historian and to the reappreciation of Herodotus’ literary artistry. A wealth of topics is covered and the book offers important underpinnings for further, in-depth research. Every chapter has its own, unique merits, but some especially stimulating and acute observations are in the section on reception. Among these chapters, Scardino’s work provides valuable insights for further research into the reasons that determine the historians’ choice for indirect discourse, while Pelling’s study gives a significant boost to Herodotean rhetoric and encourages new research pathways with the attention it pays to Herodotus’ impact on early rhetorical developments. There are only a few negligible typos and the editors have done a commendable job.

The only cavil is that not all chapters fit as comfortably with the rubrics of the different parts of the book – and this is a common problem with collective volumes. Some explanation, in the introduction to the volume, to account for the division of the book into these three parts and embed each chapter within the context of its respective section, would have been helpful and desirable. Alternatively, a conclusion by the editors could have nicely pulled together the impressively varied material dealt with in the disparate chapters, and hence increased the coherence of the volume.”

#herodotus #thucydides

[giselles-dumping-hat]

💗💜☀️

💗 [Favorite epic] this question is so hard why do you do this to me </3 /lh I CANT CHOOSE theyre all interconnected and all beautiful and just,,sobs. Yeah. I mean, I kinda have to say Epic III because of course I do like that’s a masterpiece. but Also imo Epic II is the most underrated of the three and I think we need to have a 3 hour talk about that

💜 [Favorite version (aka production)] I still haven’t finished listening to other versions that aren’t OBC nor NYTW so I will def come back to this and name every thing I love about every version including obc and nytw once I finish them all bc of course I will. But rn it is 11pm on a Sunday night so to keep things short for now, Broadway is currently my favorite version, note not because I think it’s better than nytw? Because honestly, I think the discourse over that is kinda dumb, But we don’t have time to unpack all of that™️, and both productions are unique in a way that enhance them in different ways which makes me able to love both of them a lot separately for different moments and reasons each and I just love that abt them sm; Reason I say Broadway is bc I tend to come back to it Way more than nytw, but I still love them both a lot

☀️[switch two of the hadestown actors to play each other’s character] Y’know I just. I just simply think. that a Hermes Patrick Page and a Hades Andre De Shields would be pretty neat. And I would unironically pay to see that

Tysm for asking!

[hecohansen31]

Heavy Is The Heart Of A King

Hades! Michael Langdon+Persephone! Reader:

(A/N): Hello there, lovelies!

This was not supposed to be happening as in… I wrote this Friday and worked my ass off, through Saturday for it, because I am not in the best mood (plus I haven’t felt like replying to asks, I am rather sorry for it, I just haven’t felt up for the smutty ones, particualrly…).

Still I hope you’ll like this, because I honestly loved the concept and it might be turned into a series as “Angel” let mw know, what you think about it!

Also last note: the original idea of “Hades and Persephone! AU” belongs to @7-wonders​ (who’ll by now think I am a stalker, I swear I am not), although mine more than being based onto the myth is based onto the “Hadestown” version, because it is one of the main reason behind the writing of this (basically Friday I was listening to “Epic III” on repeat so…

This will debut Sunday night, and if you want to be tagged in it, just like this teaser!

SUMMARY: Your husband lately has seemed distant and you are unable to stop yourself from goin anything but pushing away. Not everything is easy when you are the ruler of the Underworld...

WORDS: 5,9 K

WARNINGS: OOC! Michael, Not Based Onto Actual Myths, Hadestown! Inspired, Anger Outbursts, Mention of Explotaition and Sex.

You had been nothing more than a maiden when you had first met Michael.

Having run away from your obsessive mother, meanwhile she was talking with some handmaiden about the latest human harvest, you had found yourself in a flowery camp, being more than happy to spin around it, meanwhile you gently collected some of your favorite flowers, making sure to replenish whatever you took with your magic.

You thought they would have looked beautiful all collected together around your room or tangled in your hair, bringing their sweet fragrance in it, meanwhile little bees swirled around you and you jokingly chased them away, muttering about how you were the goddess of that place.

Then a sudden darkness had encompassed your small heaven and you had looked around, to find out what this threat might be, finding just a boy around your age, onto his chariot, stuck in the middle of your field.

A dark contrast with your delicate flowers, since the chariot was completely black, with two furious black stallions who raised their legs trying to escape their master’s hold.

You shushed them, cooing them gently, till you were in front of the boy, who was almost as surprised you and you blushed, focusing on the stallions, which became quite meek under your attention, searching you for sugar, till you exited a small cube of it for each of them.

The boy looked at you, and you stared at him from your side-eye never ever having been in front of a boy, since your mother thought they were more trouble than what they were truly worth, and the only boy your age you had seen was Hermes, who you didn’t like very much since he would tease you about your young age and your inexperience.

But this boy held no smirk, just absolute darkness in his eyes.

It almost scared you, but there was also a longing that made you pity him: he was looking for somebody who might play with him, just as you always did, caged inside your mother’s protective hold.

“I am rather sorry to have interrupted your afternoon, my fair lady” he commented, as he finally realized what had happened, quite embarrassed and hiding in his long drapes, meanwhile he exited the chariot, coming towards you, before he realized that as he moved everything turned black and dead, around him.

And then you had realized who you had in front of you: Hades the god of the Underworld.

Everybody made him out to be some kind of cruel torturer but you couldn’t believe those voices, when that angelic creature waltzed towards you with an unnatural grace, still but so liquid in his movement that they were seduction in themselves.

And you felt quite enthralled by him.

“No need for it, my lord” you simply muttered, bowing deeply, knowing that since he was one of the three original gods you had to show him your respect and submission, but he shooed off the gesture, an hand almost shooting up to grab you to help you steady up, but he stopped himself midway… almost regretting the original gesture.

“… well my stallions are quite the intolerable asses, if you might pardon my vulgarity, my gentle lady” he joked, before he gently patted both the stallions, who neighed loudly and pawed the ground greedily, as if they already wanted to go back, under.

“They might be stubborn but they’re beautiful creatures” you muttered, wanting to add ‘as their master’, but you couldn’t help but feel ashamed of the rapid fire coursing through your veins at that accidental meeting “… flowers seem to ease them”.

“… or the pretty girl giving them sugar” he retorted, before he also gave them some sugar, adjusting the long cape on his back, which, with a closer look, looked made of pure darkness.

You snickered a bit ashamed of being caught red-handed but he simply sent you a welcoming smile of his own, before he looked down at all the flowers around him, growing dead, and his gaze immediately turned sad, and following the pathway he had taken to dismount from the chariot, he came back onto it, and you were unable to stop yourself from moving closer.

The flowers came to life again at the small moves of your feet and Hades wasn’t able to stop himself from staring in pure awe at your power.

You smirked, definitely confident in it, shooting an hand out, for him.

“I am Persephone, goddess of spring and flowers, my mother is Demeter, goddess of the harvest and summer. She has chosen this name for me, but I would rather be called (Y/N), I have seen some mortals, owing such a beautiful name… and… I just find myself enthralled with it”.

You coursed yourself for your silly dialogues.

The god of Death might not be interested into knowing such silly knowledges, but, since you hadn’t had much exposure with people of your age, just spying on mortals and running away when your mother wasn’t looking, you didn’t know what to say.

But you had wanted him to stay.

Desperately.

He had looked at you surprised, almost ashamed of the discourse, since red tinted his cheeks, but he immediately smiled back, a smile that outshone his robe of darkness.

“Well then, my sweet maiden, you might as well know me as Hades, the god of the Underworld, but I have also heard mortals, and I would have loved my name to be Michael, you might as well call me that, it’ll be our memory of this meeting”.

His tone was sweet, but he didn’t treat you as a child, as your mother did.

It was full of warmness, and you found yourself also with bloody cheeks, meanwhile you tried to keep an hold onto his sweet gaze, gently pushing yourself onto your tiptoes so that you could keep on staring at him as he set up on the chariot, assuming the proper shape of a king on his throne.

“Then you might call me (Y/N), and it’ll be the sweetest of secrets I know”

He had smiled before taking off and suddenly the horses had started moving again, truly pawing at the ground till a big and large hole had appeared on the ground and you had fallen back, due to the air being blown by it.

Your mother had found you like this.

She hadn’t allowed her outside for so long, and only when you had started forgetting what the rays of the Sun tasted like on your skin, she had allowed you outside and you had run to the hole now glimmering with life and flowers, but soon shadows had loomed onto them and your mysterious god had come to you.

“… my mother didn’t let me attend anything before, she gets kind of overprotective” you had huffed out, meanwhile you had started tangling flowers in elaborate crowns.

“She is right, I am not the least threatening figure” he had mumbled, meanwhile he had kept his hands to himself and his gaze low.

“Don’t say this! You have done nothing to make me feel uneasy around you, unlike Hermes, who always taunts me!”.

He had giggled at your juvenal outburst, before he had offered to have a little talk with the messenger of the Gods.

“He can be quite witty when he wants to, but he is smaller than you might think…” he had joked, making you giggle softly, meanwhile red rushed to your cheeks, and meanwhile you did so, you offered Michael one of your crowns “… oh sweetie, we know what happened last time I touched a flower”.

“… but…” you had huffed, almost acting as a brat and puffing your cheeks out, almost comically “… I put so much effort in it”.

And he was unable to refuse further but as soon as he had reached out for the flower crown, barely grazing it, it had fallen to the ground, completely ruined.

“See… nothing good comes from me” his tone, although obviously sarcastic, had held some kind of harshness and depth, as if he truly believed the words he had spoken.

This had filled you with some kind of sorrow, and the following time you had met him, you had suddenly reached out for his hand, and he had been truly too surprised to do anything to stop you from touching him.

A slight pain coming through your arm, but that hadn’t stopped you from keeping his hold onto Michael and gently you had been able to get a bit of your magic onto him, a soft and comforting buzz and before he knew it, flowers had grown through his blonde curls.

You had giggled at his confused expression before he had realized what had happened and joined your laugh, saying that he wouldn’t be very threatening, and nobody would obey him.

“You don’t have to be either threatening or cruel to have people obey you” you had muttered, gently offering him a smile, and taking a rose from his hair, red as blood “… there is a force also in tenderness”.

He had simply smirked and gently moved you closer to him, meeting you halfway in a small kiss, that got you giggling and with flushed cheeks, meanwhile his expression become so soft and his body was molten under your hands.

And in that moment, you had understood that you had that power over him.

And you quite liked it.

Almost as you did like him.

And every breathing time, away from your overbearing mother, you had spent it alongside your newest lover, turning yourself around in flower fields and clutching to his hand, meanwhile you walked through them.

As soon as you would stop by with his head onto your lap, he would talk to you about the Underworld, and although at first he was shy, because he was sure it would scare you, he had grown more convinced once you started asking for more, curious and famished about anything different from the endless fields of happiness she wandered through.

“You are no gentle flower, are you, (Y/N)?” he had asked, clinging onto one lock of your hair to bring you closer to his face, laying a gentle upside down kiss onto your lips, meanwhile you gently smirked.

“… you realized it too late, my love” she had mumbled, kissing softly his nose “… now you are stuck with me”.

He had giggled, and softly kissed you to oblivion.

But one day your mother had discovered your little liaison, and she had stopped you from seeing Hades.

She had grabbed onto your hair and pushed you inside, just when you were escaping in the night to meet up with Michael.

“What are you doing, careless youngster?” she had screamed, meanwhile she held you down, summoning Hephaestus to bind you with chains “… that man is dangerous… you don’t understand that he wants you just for one thing! Men are like this… careless and destructive!”

You had tried to tell her that Michael wasn’t like this: he loved and cherished you and wanted to have you as his bride, had she given him her consent.

“He’ll never have my consent” and she had then pushed her onto a chair, spelling her with magical swine to keep her in place, meanwhile she waited for the Gods’ blacksmith “… he is a monster and before you’ll understand that…before you’ll finally realize that, you won’t be able to get away from him”.

She had then moved onto waiting for her nephew and you, in a last stand of strength, had ripped the swine with magic, and meanwhile she waited, you had run away.

You had reached the hole and this time, instead of waiting, you had started pawing desperately at the ground, till Michael got your message and showed himself in his night-robes, looking at you as if you were a mad woman, but it didn’t stop him from asking what was wrong.

“She… my mother… discovered about us… she wanted…” you took an extremely deep breath “… she didn’t want us together, she said that she would chain me to the bed, if it was what would keep me from coming after you!”.

Michael’s gaze had grown dark, but he had tried to make you go back to your mother.

“… she is right, I am dangerous for you, little flower”.

“You are not!” you had retorted, and moved to hug him gently “I know that you wouldn’t… she is the one who wanted to hurt me, keeping me away from you and taking my freedom away”.

“… she is still your mother” Michael seemed less and less convinced to let you go, his grip tightening softly around you, sheltering from the cold weather “…you might regret it”.

“I won’t” you hadn’t sounded as convinced never, but you loved Michael, so desperately and stupidly and gently pushed him away, to look at him in the eyes, in search of something that might link you together, without Demeter rupturing you apart.

You had been the one to think about the pomegranate, since a tree was near and Michael had enchanted it for you.

You had bitten in the juicy fruit, swallowing the seeds, enough for you to be stuck with him, but right when you were eating your seventh, Demeter had walked in you, her face shock and horror and had thrown the pomegranate away from your hand.

But it was too late.

The liquid of the fruit run through your hand as blood and you had just smirked to your mother, and Michael gently had taken you with him, re-opening the hole in the ground, which swallowed you.

Certainly the Underworld wasn’t as you expected and it had taken you some time to get used to it, mostly because you missed the fields of flower and the sun on your skin, but Michael tried to ease each of this lacking with any kind of help he could give you: he brought you flower that blossomed at night and he made sure that you had your little corner of light, thanks to some fossils and burning fire.

But you could survive to everything with Michael by your side.

And the life of his wife had quite its perks, one of which being the carnal knowledge of her husband, a rather pleasurable hobby.

The same night you had bitten the pomegranate, you had offered Michael your own forbidden fruit, and as the juice of the pomegranate had dribbled onto your hands, blood had left your legs, in a painful pleasure that had brought you over the edge more and more.

And you loved standing by your husband’s side: you could spend each minute of your time, with Michael and you loved it.

Still you had your own friends even in the Underworld, everybody loving you somehow, either because of Michael or because of your own gentleness.

But the more time you spent together, the more Michael got cold and was driven apart from you.

He wanted to distance himself from the other gods, to prove them that he was the best, after they had “exiled” him in the Underground.

“You have me my love” you had sweetly chanted to him, gently blowing softness in his ear “… isn’t it enough?”.

“Of course, it is” he promised you, holding your hand, but, in the morning, when you would wake up, he was gone and your bed felt cold.

The more your husband neglected you, the more you found the thought of coming back to him, after your stay with your mother, dreadful.

Not because you had fallen out of love with him or you didn’t love the Underworld, but because you felt more and more like you were growing invisible there, unlike on Earth, where you were welcomed with full gentleness and excitement and you loved to stay among humans, discovering their ideas and changes through the continuous flow of years.

You had also somehow grown to a mutual agreement with your mother: she wouldn’t get in your married life business, and she would appreciate the time you’d pass together, with no bickering, although she could see your own unhappiness, and chanted for you to question your husband.

“You just can’t do this, anymore, ‘sephone” she had caressed your hair and brought you in an hug, as you cried with her about missing the husband you had married “… you need to talk with him, make him reason”.

But you just couldn’t, unable to stand any confrontation with Michael, mostly when he showed himself to be so careful at you in his own way, showering you with gifts and compliments, making the Underworld more appealing for you.

But you didn’t care about any of these things, you just wanted to be hugged and feel loved, seen by him as the first time you had met, in that beautiful field of flowers.

An anger had been growing inside you, although you hated such a feeling.

Michael’s anger outbursts made you quite attentive not to become like that, trying to comfort your husband whenever they would happen; at first they wouldn’t be nothing more than brattish fights against his annoyed employees, you would calm with caresses and sweet nothings whispered in his ears, but lately Michael had also showed some anger towards you.

You hadn’t been able to stop that anger from flowing freely, when Michael came to take you.

At first you had loved those moments, the sweet conciliation of being again in his arms, it would lull you to sleep satisfied after you had worshipped again his body and he did the same with you, but slowly you just felt like you were going back to a golden cage.

But that year not only Michael had come, reeking of smoke and pollution, but he had come early, surprising you effectively, meanwhile you were meeting up with your human friends and he had just grabbed you to bring you away from the crowd not hearing your protests.

“You are early!”.

“I missed you”.

His eyes glinted with true emotion, and he leaned down to kiss you, but you ducked away, making him kiss nothing but air.

“I was with friends” you complained, although you knew all too well that any resistance with Michael was futile, mostly with the tight gaze he owned “… couldn’t you just wait, instead of grabbing me like a caveman?”.

“You never usually mind me grabbing you, sweetheart” he tried to reassure you softly, smirking at you, but nothing made you more relaxed or the tension disappear between them.

“Well you never came early, on Earth” you replied, spitting poison.

All the rage you owned suddenly exiting your body and turning towards him, in an accusing way that made him quite nervous, as you could notice from the traits of anger you recognized, alongside him tightening the grip onto your wrist.

“… I missed you, my love” he replied through gritted teeth “… aren’t you happy to see your husband again?”.

You wanted to huff out that “no you weren’t happy in the slightest”, but you had missed also your husband, although he might be extremely volatile.

“I did” you mumble and pushed yourself onto your toes to kiss his lips softly, effectively feeling him melt under you “… I am sorry, I just… this is so sudden and rushed”.

“I have a surprise for you that’ll make living easier” he had promised you before stuttering away towards the Underworld.

Since the time had moved in the Underworld, Michael had become flashier and more attentive, elaborating magic and human technologies to his heart’s delight till he mastered them both.

You thought… it was some kind of abomination.

You felt like nothing of the old tales existed anymore in the Underworld and although you loved the beauty of the light and the feel of warmth, you sometimes wished that it was just back to the old times.

But what you hadn’t accepted was Michael using this knowledge to create weapons.

And worst of all, his great surprise for you: a wall.

That would separate you from everything, effectively blocking them inside.

But worse was who was building the wall: humans, that Michael had recruited for this harsh work, promising riches and wonderful opportunities in his new world, making them work unrightfully and in dangerous situations, that made you quite angry towards him.

“What is happening here, Michael?” you asked exasperated, looking at sweating humans, their forehead full of sweats and greasy and their back hunched onto the creation of indestructible bricks.

“Our empire” he had welcomed you, gently cuddling you close to his chest and sadly you were unable to hear his heartbeat.

“Are you crazy?!” you had screamed in his face and pushed him away, meanwhile he had looked at you concerned, before his gaze grew grim.

“You don’t understand, like all of them…” he had muttered darkly, meanwhile he seized your wrist, obliging you to watch the horrible sight “… this is true power, not some castle in the sky or some field full flowers, and I am giving you the crown of it”.

Your eyes had become full of tears, at the knowledge of that suffering and had turned to Michael who seemed almost surprised of your emotions, but immediately brought up a straight face, hoping that you would accept the branch of olive he was offering you.

“I don’t want it” you had simply uttered, and had exited his grip, running away, not knowing where you should have gone and eventually growing tired.

There two invisible arms circled your body, and you knew it was Thanatus, your husband’s loyal servant, who was your body-guard.

You woke up in your bed, again cold and the fact that Michael had completely removed his objects from your shared room hurt you, although your refusal of that new world was strong and you wouldn’t change your mind so easily.

You would make Michael change his.

You had done it once.

And you would do it again.

But not right now, not when you felt like you couldn’t walk, barely able to turn around the bed, wondering whether you wanted or not to cry again, with your tired and heavy limbs.

And then you heard it, a heavenly music luring you outside of your warm cocoon and across the throne room, where Michael already stood, his eyebrows raised, although his lips were pressed tight against each other, and his arms crossed.

You knew it all too well that he was trying to hide his interest, and only a slight smirk showed that you were being acknowledge by him, but you gave him no mind, focusing on the elegant poet stringing the guitar and creating the heavenly music.

The music spoke of gentleness and of a lost love, but hope dragged through it and in the end, it shone of happiness and of his love being found again, asking for forgiveness and gentleness, a wedding being fulfilled.

“My beloved…” the petname reeked of venomous sarcasm, but you just rolled your eyes “… this is Xavier, looking for his love, since apparently I have taken her in the Underworld”.

“You did!” he replied, showing more guts or stupidity than you had seen in any human who had challenged your husband, in the latest centuries “… you offered her riches, in exchange for her hands and eyes”.

“Don’t you think that it is a fair then, for me to keep her?” he smiled charmingly at Xavier “… she signed a contract”.

“You tricked her in signing it!” he shouted back, before facing you, his eyes becoming suddenly watery and sadness took over rage “… my lady, please… tell your husband that he made a mistake, I miss Eurydice each night I don’t have her by my side, and to know that she is down there, deprived of the sight of the sun…”.

You couldn’t help but feel pity for the young poet and for his lover, knowing all too well, what she must have felt like, trapped in a lightless cage.

“I am sorry, my poet, but my husband is the ruler of this world, and if he had set up a deal with your lover, there is no way to get her back” you replied, pushing yourself against the throne as if you wanted it to eat you up “… your music still has brought great comfort to my heart, and maybe it might convince my husband to grant you some mercy”.

The undertone of your words didn’t get unnoticed by Michael, who turned to you with a harsh glare, although you stood right back at him with a tense look that he couldn’t avoid, and he immediately returned his attention to the poet.

“Apparently your music delights my wife” he mumbled, almost jealous of that talent “… why don’t I also do a contract with you?”.

“I have no intention to build your wall!” spited out Xavier, and you were sure Michael would incinerate him on the spot “… I just want my Eurydice back!”.

“And you shall have her” Xavier’s eyes brightened with hope, meanwhile you wondered what horrible plan might sleep in his mind “… if you manage to sing me a song that might convince me to let her back in your bed”.

You were surprised by Michael’s show of mercy, you hadn’t seen one in so long and you hadn’t expected your husband to be such a gentle soul underneath that dark exterior, again.

Was he slowly becoming your Michael?

“You’ll meet us again tomorrow, here and you’ll have to sing to move not only my wife, such a big fan of your work, but also me, the merciless king of the dead”.

It seemed more a death sentence, but you didn’t dare say anything, staring in the hope that blossomed in Xavier’s eyes, before he rushed away, as you did, when you felt the sitting being closed, shooting Michael one last look.

“I’ll have to work long hours wife” his tone was extremely glacial, and it hurt you in an unthinkable way, but you tried not to let it show.

“Of course, my husband, I would never want to disrupt your work” you had replied, your voice lightly pissed, but mostly you just hoped for this mood to go away, alongside the wall.

Xavier’s music was able to lull you to sleep but it didn’t help you from having the nightmare of losing your husband and the empty bed didn’t help to calm your heart.

But you managed to get yourself together in a new dress, a rosy ones, threaded with pinkish and purpleish petals, giving you some kind ethereal glow, meanwhile you adjusted a flower crown onto your head, your magic going into keeping them alive, meanwhile your handmaidens helped you gently with finishing your make-up, refreshing your sleepless face.

“My lady, you need to take care of yourself, more” mumbled gently Ker, meanwhile Macaria adjusted your hair, being careful to avoid touching your crown.

“It’s just the beginning of coming back that is hard” you hoped so, but you smiled weakly to the two goddesses, before they both kissed your cheeks, leaving you to your attendance of Xavier’s cause.

The poet was already there, meanwhile your husband looked at him annoyed, but he spared a look at you, unable to stop himself from shyly blushing at your appearance: he loved whenever the stark contrast between you two would stand out, an eternal reminder of what you two truly were.

And of how well you fit together.

But he quickly shifted in a more casual position, moving away from you, and setting up his attention onto Xavier.

“Play your music, foolish lover” he mumbled, meanwhile Xavier started stringing his guitar in order for it to sound its better.

Your hands became tight in your lap, in a silent prayer of your husband’s heart gaining some pity.

But as soon as the song started from his expert fingers, you knew he could do it.

He would definitely.

“King of shadows King of shades Hades was king of the Underworld”

You, half expected the poet to go for some kind of panegyric of your husband, the man himself smirking at the attempt.

“But he fell in love with a beautiful lady Who walked up above In her mother's greenfield He fell in love with Persephone”

You were extremely surprised by the mention of you.

Although you had had hymns strung up for you, you weren’t used to being mentioned ad slightly blushed, mostly because Michael turned towards you, his curls following in a golden halo his movement and you found staring at each other.

Like you had done the first time.

“And you didn't know how And you didn't know why But you knew that you wanted to take her home You saw her alone there, against the sky It was like she was someone you'd always known It was like you were holding the world when you held her Like yours were the arms that the whole world was in And there were no words for the way that you felt”

The words spoke truly of what had happened, almost as if he could effectively reproduce the emotions you had felt when you had met your soon-to-be-husband.

The feeling of belonging together, although you didn’t truly know who you were.

The familiar feeling of having known each other, each fears and each passions, since the start.

And the fact that holding onto each other, made you feel like you had the entire words in your hand and nothing else mattered, more or less.

You could see a change in Michael’s face and gently held out an hand, from your lap onto the arm of his throne, gently offering it to him, who, although shyly, grabbed onto it, caressing with his thumb the back of it, meanwhile Xavier gently strung the guitar.

“The greater the weight of the world on his shoulders See how he labors beneath that load Afraid to look up, and afraid to let go So he keeps his head low, he keeps his back bending He's grown so afraid that he'll lose what he owns But what he doesn't know is that what he's defending Is already gone”

Michael’s expression became almost pained, as if the harsh reality was growing onto him and he was suddenly realizing the mistakes that had brought him to care more for an uncertain future, than what he had in the present.

You moved your head so that you would be able to lean it onto his shoulder, your magic growing through you in him, meanwhile you pushed your conjoined hands in your lap, gently cooing him, meanwhile Xavier’s music swept over you, giving you a safe haven.

“Where is the treasure inside of your chest? Where is your pleasure? Where is your youth? Where is the man with his arms outstretched? To the woman he loves With nothing to lose”

The song came slowly to an end, but Michael’s judgement hadn’t, you knew it all too well by the battle in his eyes, and he dismissed roughly a protesting Xavier, saying that he would need time to express his judgement.

“You are already lucky, human, that I won’t kill you for this blasphemy”.

You didn’t know what to do, pained by your husband’s conflict but also not knowing whether he might want your opinion or not.

But he gently moved to you, once you were alone in the throne room, he moved on his knees in front of you, his head gently coming to sit on your lap, and your hands went to his hair, gently curling them around your fingers, in a calming caress.

“That song did move me” he mumbled, his tears wetting your dress and the petals crumbling in his hold “… I can’t deny it, it made me feel again… what I felt the first time I saw you, in that field”.

He smiled a bit vague at the thought and you smiled back to him gently, knowing the feeling.

You had grown so distant, but the shared memory of that meeting had made you somehow meet each other back, for the time of a song.

“… my love, I felt the same way” you gently comforted him, moving the hair out of his face before you plopped a kiss onto his forehead “… it was wonderful to hear it all again”.

“… what did we do to ourselves?” he asked, before a sad smile came onto your face “I let myself be corrupted by the power and envy that I promised would never reign me, and I pushed you aside”.

“I didn’t say anything and wasn’t by your side meanwhile this went on” you replied, before you lowered to kiss his forehead, hearing him sniffle softly, a tremble going through his body.

“… I am sorry that we came to this”.

“This is no point of no return, my love” your eyes stared into his icy ones, delivering a message of hop and rebirth, proper for the goddess of Spring “Let’s forget about this wall, and the humans and the others, just return back to how we were!”.

Michael’s gaze became shadowed and you realized that you had hit a blind spot.

“… I would seem weak in front of anyone”.

“You don’t have to be either threatening or cruel to have people obey you” you reminded him, before you kissed his forehead one last time “… I already told you so, back in the day”

And gently bidding him goodnight you left him to his mind, knowing that only he could do the choice.

That morning you were woken up by two arms, gently tangling around you and you pushed yourself close to him, turning to smell Michael’s deep fragrance of smoke, gently bashing in his heat, because contrary to popular belief, the god of the Underworld could be quite warm.

“I gave him back his girl” he whispered, his nose cold gently skimming through your hair, meanwhile you enveloped him in a loose hug, bringing him close to your chest, your heartbeat always having been of some comfort to the man “… on one condition that he didn’t look back for her”.

Although it was a rather cruel bet, you knew that your Hades had come back to you and kissed his forehead.

“He looked at her, when she told him she thought he had stopped loving her” he told you and you brought yourself even closer, already knowing that this tale would bring out tears from your eyes “… and then he was so sad that he wasn’t able to sing anything but sad songs: Maenads came to him and ripped him to pieces… he is dead now…”.

You knew that it didn’t end there, but felt your husband shift closer, his voice holding some kind of hurt in it, and you soothed it, cooing him gently.

“… I gave them to the Champs Elysees, they’ll be happy, at least in the Underworld” he finished the story, but you knew it wasn’t over.

At least not for you.

“… I am going to break that fucking wall, before it drives a dent in my marriage, with the most heavenly creature” his tone was tough but you knew it all too well that he wasn’t aching for nothing more than a soft caress and your forgiveness “… I’ll free all the humans, just tell me that you love me”.

“I’ll always love you, Michael” your voice was firm “… my love for you will never stop, but… it might grow distant, because I feel like you are not interested in me anymore, that I might not… be what you want”.

“You are all I have ever wanted” his words were almost rageful and you knew it all too well he meant each of them “I am sorry for being a terrible husband”.

“Nothing to be sorry, my love” you gently shushed him “I am not able to be angry with you for long, you know it”.

He smirked, and gently kissed your neck, making you flush embarrassed, remembering that not only you had missed your husband’s warmth, but also his body.

“… let me still beg for my forgiveness, my lady” his head moved till it was between her legs, slowly pushing your nightgown up your legs, laying a few kisses onto them “… I have not been the most attentive lover, and I’ll be damned if my wife isn’t satisfied”.

“Then who am I to stop the great lord of the Underworld”. 

---

@so-langdon​ @emmyrosee​ @blakewaterxx​ @1-800-bitchcraft​ @lovelylangdonx​ @ladynuwanda​ @lathraios​ @rosegoldrichie​ @dyns33​ @uinen-ulmiel​ @cuddletothecake​ @ moonagecordelia @ anahisalazaralmaguer   @orphiceseum​ @horrifyingdelicious​ @zayvalentine @sweetcherrybby @funfeminism​ @ weehawkendawngunsdrawnyouron @yourfavoritefairy @forever1313 @ jassiepoohbear @pleasantlyparker @queenmissfit @megmegthenutmeg @minigranger @xepherbts @kyliehorsegirl @saenmara @jjai-den @ throw-some-music-my-way @michaels-fallen-angel @ star0313 @hxdesworld @ codyflangdon @ flowercoffin @majesticdiscodeaky @pigglish @suicidesqwads @eyoricka @our-mrlangdon @marveltotheendoftheline @elena-75s-blog @ abominableholly @drama-penguins @dramapenguinthe3rd @ticklish-leafy-plant @sweetnocturnaldreams @ kingbouji3 @ hellaheckingay @ lsutgurxb @loveableasshole @oxoxo0 @kaetastic

#michael langdon #michael langdon reader #michael langdon x reader #michael langdon imagine #michael langdon fluff #michael langdon fic #michael langdon moodboard #michael langdon x female reader #michael langdon oneshot #michael langdon one shot #michael langdon fan fic #michael langdon fanfic #michael langdon fanfiction #ahs writing #ahs apocalypse #ahs 8

[moviemunchies]

The Patriot is a weird movie that has somehow grown on me? I think it’s a good movie, but I don’t know if it’s a great movie, and it’s about as subtle as a brick to the face. I wouldn’t say it handles the subject matter very well, cutting a few corners to make the story work. 

So The Patriot tells the story of Benjamin Martin (Mel Gibson), a South Carolina...farmer? Plantation owner? Whatevs. He’s a widower with several kids and a veteran of the French and Indian War, so despite the beginning of the American Revolution going on, and his oldest son Gabriel (Heath Ledger) joining the Continental Army, he advocates a peaceful solution to the conflict with Britain because he doesn’t want to be drawn into another war. But when a British dragoon leader Colonel Tavington (Jason Isaacs) shows up and shoots his son, Martin joins the war effort, and attacks the British in a brutal guerilla campaign leading a group of local militia.

If you’re from South Carolina, you’ve probably heard about this movie quite a lot, in part because it takes place and was filmed there, but especially because the protagonist is heavily based on American Revolutionary hero and militia leader Francis Marion (and some other South Carolinians from the time but they didn’t have a cool nickname so that’s the one we usually go with). It’s not precisely an accurate depiction of Francis Marion’s life by any means, other than he was a guerilla militia leader in the Revolution that hung out in the swamps. For starters, Benjamin Martin’s anti-slavery, which is not quite the attitude Francis Marion held towards the practice (but fellow SC native and Revolutionary hero John Laurens certainly did!); his plantation is staffed entirely by freedmen--a facet of the character that even Mel Gibson felt was a bit of a cop out, avoiding a chance to do a warts-and-all look at American history. Admittedly, this is a bit much to ask of the movie, I think. And Roland Emmerich, probably. 

Still, it’s a bit jarring to have a subplot about one of the militiaman, a black man, finding out that the Continental Army will free any slave that fights for the Revolution for a year when that’s not really a thing that happened at all. And Francis Marion wasn’t nearly as great of a guy as Benjamin Martin; although that may be exactly why there’s a fictional stand-in instead of the actual historical figure in the lead role.

There is often a conversation about the atrocities that the British (mostly Tavington, if we’re being real here) commit during the course of the film. Yes, he’s based off of the real British officer Tarleton, who is infamous in American history for being vicious and giving no quarter. And yes, atrocities happened. And to be clear, in-film, Cornwallis and other Redcoats call out Tavington on his brutality throughout the film, to the point that none of the Brits seem particularly torn up when he dies at the end. But burning a church full of people is a _Nazi war crime._ There’s no record of the British doing anything like that during the Revolution, and so people accuse this movie of demonizing the British. But while the British didn’t do this to American colonists, similar atrocities were committed against the Irish a hundred years before. So no, the British didn’t do this to _US_, but they did do it at some point. That probably doesn’t justify its use here in this movie, but I feel like it’s all important to keep in mind.

This all leads me to the idea of _The Patriot_ not as a history--it’s Hollywood, of course it’s not--but as a sort of mythologized version of the American Revolution. Maybe that’s a weird take, and that might make some people turn off from this movie, but for me it works. I guess that I haven’t been one of those “This movie’s inaccurate, so it SUX!” people for a long time.

The hero of our movie isn’t a man who wants to go to war--he does everything he can to try to avoid going to war, to convince his neighbors that war is not in their best interests, even though he believes in independence for the American colonies. It’s not until the war refuses to leave him alone, and begins to harm his family, that he fully commits to fighting the injustices he sees being perpetrated. Yeah, it’s kind of American _Braveheart_ but is that really a bad thing? As long as we know that’s what it is, I don’t think it is. If there were people out there who took this movie seriously, I don’t know that I’d be as lenient, but I have yet to meet someone whose opinion of history was seriously influenced by this film. Which is probably for the best.

I do understand though that the Plot kind of feels like it’s making the main character way too important to the war effort. It makes it seem as if Benjamin Martin is the only officer in the Continental Army who actually knows what he’s doing against the British. And while I like the character and his arc, I do think it’s a bit silly the way it frames the story in a way that would lead one to think that he’s fighting this war by himself. It’s not fantastic when a story dumbs down the rest of the Good Guys in order to make the Hero stand out--there are ways of accomplishing that without making everyone else incompetent.

And I’ll admit that the story’s structure is a bit… weird, I think. Sometimes Tavington just does terrible things, and I don’t know what this contributes other than adding angst. Towards the end of the movie, he gets information from some colonials before locking them in a church and burning it, but it’s not as if we see him do much with that information. It’s not really Plot Relevant. It just provides motivation for Gabriel to go after Tavington and shoot him with what should have been a fatal shot, and get killed, and give Ben MOAR ANGST. Of course it’s better to show the war as something that has casualties and consequences, but I felt that there were better ways to do it than this.

But this movie is telling an almost mythical epic story set in the American Revolution. Benjamin Martin isn’t a real person; he’s a legendary hero vaguely based off of a real hero. And in epics, seemingly pointless terrible things happen to the hero all the time to make his life suck. And like I said, this is a war movie (albeit, in an 18th century war), made before a lot of the discourse about Fridging came into public forums. Yeah, bad stuff happens, and it doesn’t always seem to make sense--that’s war. And the audience getting invested in the story, and being bothered by character deaths; well that’s kind of the point of character deaths in the first place, isn’t it?

Also it’s kind of an awesome historical action movie--I really like this period in history, because it’s a point where firearms have become commonplace, but haven’t yet become practical enough to completely replace melee weapons in battle. So we’ve got Benjamin Martin taking out Lobsterbacks with muskets, knives, and a tomahawk. It’s great, I love it. This is a huge part of why I love Assassin’s Creed III so much.

Maybe this movie isn’t that great, and I’m just projecting on it because of the lack of good American Revolution movies in the last twenty years…

I dunno. Decide for yourself. It’s a worthwhile watch. It’s got problems for sure, but I think it’s probably one of Roland Emmerich’s greatest films (maybe not a high bar), and a great film on its own merits. 

[Also you know Logan Lerman is in this movie? Yeah, Percy Jackson. He’s the youngest son in the family. And Adam Baldwin is a loyalist officer, which is so off from how he’s usually portrayed it’s weird.]

#The Patriot #Mel Gibson #American Revolution #movies #Movie Munchies

[pocolocoasshole]

Why King George III HAS BIG TOP ENERGY

Okokok, so I have been wanting to talk about this for so long but I haven’t had the courage or energy to do it cause I know I’ll get a shit ton of backlash. Now, however, I believe I have collected enough evidence to support my point sufficently enough for at least someone to see the point I’m making.

So, I have been a Hamilton stan for about three years now, and during those three years I have seen a lot of discourse concearning Jefferson, Hamilton, Laurens etc. But I have seen literally zero discourse on King George, and I’d like to change that.

I am interested in history, and I have read many articles and watched a lot of documentaries on different historical people, including George III. I am also interested in fictional takes on historic events and people, hence my interest in Hamilton the musical. I will provide you with ”evidence” (if that’s what you would call it) that proves my theory right, from both the musical or fictional perspective and the historical perspective.

I know this might be a lot to take in, and that probably no one will have the energy to read it, but I just hope to put my opinion out there and find out whether there are any like-minded people in the Hamilton community as well as the historical community.

Evidence: Historical perspective

1. He was born too early, pointing towards his determination to fulfill his purpose: to be a monarch, a ruler, a king. This is a common top energy trait, and it is, as you will discover, a common pattern in this post.

2. He was a king. Now, this is clearly obvious, but I am just stating this so that you keep it in mind. He was born royalty, he was born to rule. This position in itself incourages George to be a top. That however, society’s expectations of him, is not what we are discussing. We are discussing whether he was born to thrust or not, do remember that.

3. He had 15 children. Yes, this is important, and I’ll tell you why. To be able to produce 15 children between the years of 1762-1783, your dick game will have to be pretty epic. Just stating facts. Not to discourage bottoms, but they just don’t have the energy it takes to fertlize that many eggs.

4. His son inherited his name, making it the fourth time in a row. This makes the name extremely powerful and dominant, and so that also makes the bearer of the name dominant.

Evidence: Musical perspective

1. George talks to America in a very dominant way. Note the lines ”my submissive subject” and ”my royal loyal subject”. This very clearly implies that George is the top and America is a bottom. Whether this is a metaphor or the literal thing (the king banging America) is up for debate.

2. He throws papers at Hamilton during the song ”the Reynolds pamphlet”, implying that he is encouraging the destruction of his opponents (Hamilton’s) reputation. This is what I like to call ”big dick energy” and it is sort of a subculture to top energy.

3. This, and this is probably the most important point, this is the quote that convinced me to make this post in the first place: ”you were mine to subdue”. THIS if ANYTHING proves that King George William Frederick was indeed a top, and a dominating one at that.

I have several more points to make concearning this subject as it is very close to my heart, but these are the points I found most compelling.

I hope I convinced some poor sod out there so that at least someone understands my struggles, but alas that remains to be seen.

I rest my case.

#hamilton #hamilton musical #hamilton discourse #hamilton theory #lin manuel miranda #hamilton the musical #hamilton an american musical #king george the third #hamilton rant

[feuillesmortes]

On Blanchardyn and Eglantine 

— Or how Margaret Beaufort employed common courtly romance tropes to promote the union of Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York 

Once I jokingly said that Margaret Beaufort was the first person to ship Henry VII and Elizabeth of York. From a historical point of view, my statement was obviously half-true. Lady Margaret Beaufort worked closely together with Elizabeth Woodville, Edward IV's dowager queen, in order to create an alliance between their families that would ultimately lead to the deposition of Richard III from the English throne. What I had in mind at the time of my innocuous text post was a really specific trivia about her life as a literary patronesse: the one time she commissioned the translation and printing of the French romance Blanchardyn and Eglantine. In this short meta we will look into Lady Margaret’s engagement with romance literature, a feat that closely resonates with modern shipping culture, and we will explain how courtly romance tropes could shape contemporary views in regard to the appeal of Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York as King and Queen of England.

❧

During her lifetime, Lady Margaret Beaufort had a number of printed works dedicated to her name. She was mentioned in the colophon as the funder or commissioner of the printing of ten books, receiving actual dedicatory verses in three of them. Although one could always argue that naming the mother of the king and stating her seal of approval was a rather blatant marketing strategy, it is largely believed that Lady Margaret was genuinely interested in printing books for the overall benefit of English readers and hearers. Lady Margaret herself translated The Mirror of Gold for the Sinful Soul and the fourth book of The Imitation of Christ. All of her commissioned books were religious and attested to her piety with the exception of the earliest work dedicated to her name, which precisely happens to be Blanchardyn and Eglantine, a medieval courtly romance. This is the sole secular book dedicated to Lady Margaret, and it comes as a surprise when her devotional endeavours are put into perspective. 

William Caxton translated the first edition of this book around 1489 by Lady Margaret’s request. In his dedication, he claims that Margaret Beaufort had previously made a purchase from him of the French version of the romance. In the dedicatory verse, he states that the story was ‘honeste & loyefull to all vertuouse yong noble gentylmen & wymmen for to rede therin, as for their passé tyme’ — in a word, it was as appropriate as devotional literature itself. As Valerie Schutte points out in her dissertation, it was an appropriate pastime for gentlemen because it told the story of ancient knights who took up arms (something young nobles should aspire to), and it was suitable reading for gentlewomen for it exemplified how to be steadfast in their love and promises. It was essentially a courtly romance that provided gendered models shaped by traditional chivalric ideals. The story reads as:

OF THE MOST Excellent and Famous Historye of Blanchardine, Sonne of the King of Frize, and faire Eglantine, Queene of Tormaday, surnamed The Proud Lady in Loue

This is the story of Blanchardyn, a princely knight that arrives in a foreign kingdom for the occasion of a tournament. The scene in which the prince enters the city amidst the local festivities has been colourfully described by a variety of different French storytellers:

« [lui] semblait la plus belle ville où jamais il avait été. ll entra dedans et chevaucha bien avant, regardait les belles maisons, la grand multitude de peuple, les belles rues et les grandes églises. / [...] la mer lui était prochaine battants jusqu'aux murs, de l'autre coté étaient les grands prairies et labourages, bois et vignes, les eaux douces et les fontaines a grant foison » * (see notes)

That is Tournaday, the realm of Eglantine, a beautiful princess with whom Blanchardyn becomes enamoured. He is told that to win her heart he must surprise her by stealing a kiss. Only when he proceeds to do so Eglantine is so greatly shocked she falls from her horse, and embarrassed, swears war on Blanchardyn. In the course of the book the reader sees her resolve falter as she slowly falls in love with Blanchardyn and learns to appreciate his worth: ‘I have debated [th]e quarelle ayenst the god of love / but at the last I have been subdued & uttirly overcome.’

It has been speculated that Lady Margaret gifted Elizabeth of York with the French romance sometime during the events of 1483-1484. William Caxton had a printing shop located in Westminster, close enough to where Elizabeth of York and her mother and sisters took sanctuary at the time. It doesn’t take much to imagine the book passing into the hands of the princess by the assistance of the Welsh physician who smuggled messages between Lady Margaret and the dowager queen. Dr Lewis of Caerlon was a Cambridge-trained mathematician, theologian, astronomer, doctor of medicine and teacher at Oxford who was able to travel openly between Lord Stanley's London house and Elizabeth's sanctuary at Westminster. He would later serve as doctor to Henry VII and Elizabeth of York.

The story of Blanchardyn and Eglantine presented enough parallels with the situation of the heiress of the Yorkist line to impress Elizabeth of York: it could be said that Blanchardyn, much like Henry Tudor, was a prince that had left home to 'test himself in chivalry'. In his absence his realm is overthrown by pagan enemies, but Blanchardyn returns in due time to claim his title, marrying a neighbouring heiress in the process. Under this premise, one could say that Blanchardyn and Eglantine conveniently provided a romance patterning for the Tudor takeover of the English throne. 

It has been stated elsewhere, though, that the mid-fifteenth-century romance Ollyver of Castille provided a more accurate parallel to the marriage of Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York. It also tells the story of an uncle Gloucester, usurper of the throne, who is later overcome in battle by another contestant, Arthur, whose claim derives from his wife as the true heiress of the rightful line. It resonated uncomfortably close to the discourse of those who disregarded Henry Tudor’s claim to the English throne. The hero’s kingship could not entirely rely on his wife’s heritage. When one takes into account all of the available romances at the time it is interesting to ponder at Lady Margaret’s choice. Possibly, what we see here is Margaret Beaufort controlling the narrative of her son's coming into power and choosing which work of fiction could best depict his ascension to the throne.

In Blanchardyn and Eglantine, it is interesting to see that the scene in which Eglantine declares her love begins by Eglantine discussing the wages she owes Blanchardyn for defending her castle. By the end of this scene, it looks as if Blanchardyn only requires her love as payment for his services. Despite his humble request, the narrative rewards him conveniently enough: Eglantine’s subjects unanimously accept Blanchardyn as their king. The crown becomes his ultimate prize. 

There are some common courtly romance tropes that closely resembled the situation in which Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York found themselves at the time of Richard III's usurpation of the English throne, namely:

The Exiled Heir: In medieval literature, the true heir is typically lost from sight. He becomes an unknown figure, someone who often himself does not know about his identity as the true heir. He is brought up away from the court and experiences the hardships of a lonely life out in the world. Much like this trope, Henry Tudor sojourned the continent in order to escape any and every Yorkist attempts against his life but returned in due time (from over the sea, an important English motif) to recover his throne. Although not outwardly applicable, it is also noteworthy to mention the figure of the lone man excluded from society in medieval tradition: he is either in danger, or he has voluntarily isolated himself to complete some quest or to dedicate his life to God. This is the literature of the knight errant: the hero who willingly chooses to face evil by himself and who, when victorious, brings blessings to his whole community.

The Dispossessed Heiress: Typically, she needs to be rescued away from the man controlling her kingdom. This might be a tyrannical father, a stepfather or an evil uncle. It was a common theme for the heiress to be the last of her line, especially threatened by her male relatives. In the story of Havelok the Dane, Edelsie gets his niece Argentille out of the way by marrying her to a commoner and taking over her kingdom. The heiress's choice of marriage partner is often forbidden, her hand more often than not requested by highly undesirable suitors such as pagans. Contrary to the exiled heir, the heiress does not need to be found –– she needs to be rescued and to be married to the right man. Following the rise of the great French epics of the thirteenth century, the role of families and lineages is gradually highlighted in the literature. Genealogical concerns for the founding of families arose in the tradition of medieval romances: the heroine, as the founding mother of the future dynasty, must choose wisely among her suitors. The same problem was posed to Elizabeth of York, ultimately the mother of the Tudor dynasty.

The Chosen Nephew: In the romance La Chanson de Roland, the hero has but two identified relatives in the narrative: Charlemagne, his uncle the king/emperor, and Ganelon, his stepfather, the one who ultimately betrays Charlemagne's army. Looking at the great French epics, in the song of Renaud de Montauban (also known as Quatre fils Aymon), Girart, the eldest brother and leader of the family, holds a privileged position of affection and authority over his nephew Aymeri. Although Girart's brother Hernaut, the young man’s father, is alive in the story, Girart is established as the educator, the principal formative figure in his nephew's life. It is also noteworthy to mention the importance of uncle-nephew relationships in Arthurian legends: Gawain, King Arthur's nephew, is one of the greatest knights of the Round Table and features notably as the protagonist of the late-fourteenth-century chivalric romance Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. Much like those legendary heroes, Henry Tudor grew into adulthood under the protection and guidance of his uncle Jasper Tudor in exile.

Lastly, we could not leave out the trope of the Evil Uncle: as exemplified in the aforementioned story of Havelok, the usurping tyrant typically tries to kill the child heir. Whether or not Richard III was guilty of the murders of the Princes in the Tower it did not matter. In the eyes of the public, he had the motives and the means to land this role. The perception that Richard was northern, quarrelsome and morally dubious following the disappearance of the sons of Edward IV would be further damaged in 1484, when it was rumoured that he had poisoned his wife and intended to marry his niece.

We could only speculate that Lady Margaret Beaufort saw the potential of romance literature as a framework for legitimising her son’s ascension to the throne. Employing chivalric ideals as rhetorical propaganda was hardly a new political device at that time: romance discourse was often used as an active social force that could elevate women to positions of power not otherwise available in a patriarchal society. In this light, Blanchardyn and Eglantine becomes more than a suitable justification for Henry Tudor’s acts of war —those could be regarded as a necessity born out of love for England and for Elizabeth of York alike. As it has been stated before, the story “contained a thinly-veiled account of governance and was essentially a political manual for its aristocratic women readers.” 

Communal reading was a frequent practice in the late fifteenth century. There are accounts of Cecily, Duchess of York, discussing the day’s reading with her ladies-in-waiting during her meals. Romance laid the contemporary basis for debate on how people should live, love, govern, fight and practise piety. They subtly reflected social mores about love, marriage, and politics. Women of that time would be aware that in the tradition of chivalric romances when the hero marries his lady, he also wins a kingdom. Noblewomen were constantly reminded by the genre that although beauty and grace were important charms, much of their importance derived from their status as heiresses or their ability to provide marriage alliances. The rules of the chivalric world were dictated by men, but women often wielded power to modify and rearrange the orders of that world by exerting the type of political influence that foreshadowed the role of diplomats and ambassadors. 

Eglantine is not a passive romance heroine. She oversees battle scenes and is in charge of her own keep. She also handles marriage negotiations and provides an example of how noble women could work together with their male peers to achieve political goals. If there is any truth to The Song of Lady Bessy, a largely romanticised account of the role of Elizabeth of York in the victory of Bosworth Field, the Yorkist heiress took to heart some of those lessons by wooing support for her betrothed in exile. We can only speculate about this point (and what a speculation this is!) since there is no solid evidence of her role in Henry Tudor’s invasion. Nonetheless, it is undeniable the presence of such lessons in the text of Blanchardyn and Eglantine.

A lady calling upon the help of lords and knights was a common theme in romance literature, deeply rooted in the tradition of chivalric codes. In the first line of The Song of Lady Bessy we see Elizabeth of York’s plea to Thomas Stanley, Henry Tudor's stepfather, later 1st Earl of Derby:

I shall tell how Lady Bessy made her moan, And down she kneeled upon her knee Before the Earle of Darby her self alone, These were words fair and free:

Who was your beginner, who was your ground, Good father Stanley, will you tell me? Who married you to the Margaret Richmond, A Dutchess of a high degree; And your son the Lord George Strange, By that good Lady you had him by.

Good father Stanley, remember thee? It was my father that King royall, He set you in that room so high.  Remember Richmond banished full bare And lyeth in Brittain behind the sea;  You may recover him of his care,  If your heart and mind to him will gree,  Let him come home and claim his right,  And let us cry him King Henry. 

Ultimately, the idea of Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York coming together as England's royal couple toyed with important courtly romance tropes of their time, and it is not difficult to see how it might have played an important role in the success of the establishment of the Tudor dynasty. We can certainly say that Lady Margaret Beaufort chose her story wisely.

___________________________________

* Free translation by yours truly: “It seemed to him the most beautiful city he had ever been. He made his entrance and rode along, gazed at the beautiful houses, the great multitude of people, the beautiful streets, and the grandiose churches. The sea came crashing next to the walls, and on the other side there were great meadows and plows, woods and vineyards, fresh waters and fountains galore.”

#margaret beaufort #henry vii #elizabeth of york #henry vii x elizabeth of york #meta #tudor tag

[ninasfireescape]

HADESTOWN

So yesterday (21st December) I saw hadestown at the National with @only-a-little-bit-dead, @ya-sudan and my mum. I’ve been a fan for a little over a year, having got into it through great comet (I would die for Amber Gray) so not only was it incredible getting to see it live but also to see her live and now I’ll give my thoughts/casual review of the production.

There are three theatre spaces at the National and it’s in the Olivier which is the biggest and is the one with the spinning stage which fits perfectly.

Also I completely underestimated how close to the front I would be. I booked for this side balcony bit but it’s actually right in front of the stage so I was only five feet from the actors and Amber and Eva made eye contact with me multiple times.

The set is this cute summer cafe but if you “look a little closer” you see it’s covered in mould. There’s also a bunch of posters up and one is for a jazz concert.

All of the cast enter at the beginning and Eurydice is rocking her look by French tucking her shirt (Tan would be proud). Hades and Persephone spend the first few songs just chilling up on the balcony and it makes it all the more ominous when he finally comes down in Way Down Hadestown. Persephone is fanning herself the whole way through.

I should mention this production is really diverse. Like not just racially but they’ve got dancers of all different sizes and body types and one dancer is an amputee as well.

When Hermes calls the Fates “three old women all dressed the same” they all glare at him and it’s really funny.

Eva is an amazing singer and she’s so beautiful and really small and Orpheus gives her lots of piggy backs

Persephone gives her her lil flower in Livin’ It Up On Top

I know lots of people were wondering about a sex scene in the show. I’d hardly call it a sex scene. It was Eurydice artfully straddling Orpheus for 0.2 seconds while fully clothed then rolling off him to sing All I’ve Ever Known

For no reason, Hermes whips out an umbrella and honestly? Iconic. (Also Hermes you know it’s bad luck to open an umbrella inside you’ve caused bad luck for Orpheus and Eurydice)

Like I said, Hades is on stage all the way up until Way Down Hadestown but we never hear him say anything until then so I expect for people who hadn’t heard the soundtrack before his voice must have been such a shock and the build up worth it. It’s actually surreal hearing a voice that deep live and my friends and I were all saying we wished our voices were that low

He and Persephone stand in the centre of the stage and then it just sinks below the floor. This trap door works a lot through the show  but the first time is when they first go to Hadestown and it’s a big surprise at this point. Steam comes out and they just disappear.

The Fates act as the wind and tear off Eurydice’s coat so she’s just left with her half French-tucked shirt and it really opens the question of whether she actually died of exposure.

Meanwhile, Orpheus is just chilling writing his song at the side of the stage. I bet if we looked at that sheet of paper, it would just be pictures of his gf in hearts

Orpheus is really adorable ok.

And then he turns around and “oh my gf’s gone and I didn’t notice.”

Wait for me is really really really amazing. First of all, they’ve added some nice overlapping memories but there’s swinging lights overhead, smoke everywhere, and the workers have torches on their heads. It genuinely feels scary as the Fates follow him around going “Who are you?” so you feel he actually is facing dangers while walking to Hadestown.

Act 2 begins and Persephone is hiding flasks in amongst her basket of flowers. All the workers are really in love with her and one of them looks like he is about to faint when she puts her arm around him. Mood.

When she says “it’s right here waiting in my pay-per-view” she points at her forehead so I think Persephone’s speakeasy is ultimately just her sharing stories about being up on top and that’s how desperate the workers are to be out - that they’ll settle for stories about it.

Flowers is so beautiful, this is where you hear Eva’s voice the best.

Orpheus runs through the audience to her.

There’s this amazing dance sequence where Hades commands the workers to fight Orpheus

Hades has taken off his jacket and has a tattoo of a brick wall on one arm and another tattoo on the other but I can’t tell what it is.

If it’s true, also a gorgeous song, why did they cut this from the cast album?

All the workers end up banding behind Orpheus after this.

Now this is where a bit of bitterness comes in, they changed ALL the lyrics to Persephone’s verse in Chant II. I don’t mind most of the changes they made but this is bad, and they’ve also shoehorned in a verse sung by Orpheus which just doesn’t fit the tune but oh well.

“I CONDUCT THE ELECTRIC CITY!!!!” Patric’s voice is so powerful that there’s a burst of electricity and then a full blackout.

Epic III, Hades is crying, Persphone is crying, you’re crying, I’m crying, there’s a link between the two couples and Orpheus ends up starting a riot and the trap door bit in the middle rises up with him on top of it.

His Kiss The Riot is incredible to hear live as well with all the background music. The Fates all have instruments and are playing around him as well as the band. This is one of my favourite songs in the musical.

So Orpheus and Eurydice head back up and this section is really scary. The stage is spinning madly, Eurydice disappears off and you can barely see a thing, just smoke and shadows. Everything is really distorted as the set comes back together, shaking everything. There’s a new verse where you really see inside Orpheus’ head and though we all know he’s a dumb bitch, we understand why he would turn around because he thinks Hades is playing a trick on him.

Indeed, when Eurydice does reappear onstage to sing, she almost looks too happy, you can imagine her being some kind of vision sent to taunt him.

Light filters through this metal grate on the floor to show they’ve almost reached the surface and Orpheus is literally on the top step when he turns around. Eurydice slowly sinks back through the floor.

The play starts again at the beginning with Eurydice and Orpheus meeting again. I don’t quite know what it’s meant to be showing but I think it’s about how we tell the story again and again even though we know how it ends.

The bows take place. Here I was internally thinking “WHY WOULD THEY CUT PERSEPHONE’S FINAL SONG?”

However it comes after the bows. Hermes basically tells everyone to stop clapping and sit down without saying a word and Persephone sings I Raise My Cup.

Meeting the cast

I managed to meet everyone except for one of the fates

The cast all probably hate me because the pen I brought doesn’t work very well and Andre De Shields borrowed a gold sharpie from someone else and then wrote his name out with it in my programme in huge letters. He’s so fancy and I love it.

Apparently they were told English audiences are really cynical and were shocked by how lively we are. Then again, he does have a point. I’ve been to Hamilton London and the audience don’t even clap for “My name is Alexander Hamilton.”

My friends and I were pretty sure Reeve Carney was smashed when he came outside but he was really nice and had a long conversation with us. I know the discourse about him and honestly so unnecessary. I agree that the guy on the workshop has a better singing voice but Reeve is a great singer too and he can actually act. He is not to the detriment of the musical in any way.

The Fates seemed surprised I wanted a picture with them but they were really nice. I talked a lot to Gloria Onitiri and we joked about an actor’s salary when she asked if I was coming to Broadway and how I said “I’m a student so no”

I waited a loooooong time for Amber to come outside because I painted her a picture of her as Helene and Persephone. There was only one other person outside so I was just about to ask the doormen if I could leave my picture when she came out. She was soooo lovely and she really liked my painting. She said she’d take it to Broadway with her. She said no pictures which I was sad about but fair enough and I GOT TO MEET HER!

#hadestown #west end #hadestown london #alexia talks #alexia reviews

[herkiss-theriot]

Hadestown discord heard it first (they usually do, shameless promo, so join to hear all my hadestown thoughts)

So in the discord, there’s been a lot of discourse over the line “the gods have forgotten the song of their love” in Chant I and I’ve found myself kind of neutral. I think it’s a cool idea but maybe could have sounded a bit different but also shows Orpheus misunderstanding.

My biggest idea was that it might be a cool line to have in a new Epic, Epic III (however in this example, Epic III is a new song and what we call Epic III would now be Epic IV

The line makes a lot of sense, to Orpheus it seems like hades and Persephone are simply old lovers who have lost touch with a romance they once had. It took me some time to think of when a new epic might take place but then it dawned one me, how long are Orpheus and Eurydice in hadestown? We really don’t know because the whole show is quite timeless. If they’re only there for like a day (which doesn’t make sense) then it wouldn’t really work, but if they were there for any extended period of time, I think it could take place in a scene where Orpheus is working on his song, even in the face of danger which is a big character thing for him. It wouldn’t make sense to perform in persephones bar because he’s kind of protective of it but a scene of Orpheus alone either in a room or outside in Hadestown, working on his song, would just be honestly so perfect.

#hadestown #eva noblezada #patrick page #amber gray #hades #persephone #selah speaks #eurydice #reeve carney #hermes #andre de shields #orpheus #hadestown the myth the musical

[rainydawgradioblog]

RDR Essentials - Hip-Hop/R&B (2/10)

RDR Essentials is a weekly newsletter of alternating genres that outlines key releases of the past month, upcoming events around Seattle and happenings in the specified music genre.

Made in collaboration between Rainy Dawg DJs and the Music Director.

Releases:

Playboi Carti- Whole Lotta Red

Playboi Carti’s long-awaited sophomore album, Whole Lotta Red, finally arrived Christmas day, and to say that the reception of the project by fans has been mixed would be an understatement. Discourse surrounding this album’s release permeated into the new year and further, with longtime fans finding Carti’s switch into a more aggressive and unrefined sound for much of the record off-putting. Yet, if there is any outstanding strength that this record’s allure can be attributed to, it is certainly that boldness, and Carti’s raw energy. Vocals are often rough, with Carti’s vocals ranging in inflection, volume, intensity, and even intelligibility all within a few bars. Tracks like the booming “Stop Breathing” and opener “Rockstar Made” demonstrate a Carti that sounds absolutely furious, straining his voice and almost screaming, whereas cuts like the nonsensical “JumpOutTheHouse” and “New Tank” feel like a punch to the face. This album is less filled with the usual sickly-sweet Pierre Bourne beats Carti’s previous work has become known for, to the disappointment of many fans. Yet that sugar-trap vibe combines with heavy bass and high-energy on highlights such as the demented ice-cream-truck-theme “Teen X” which sees Future even leaning into Carti’s lane. Further, the punk-meets-vampire energy that’s been ascribed to this project and its promotion manifests on tracks like “Vamp Anthem”, which sounds laughable on first impression but sticks in the mind like an infectious funeral accompaniment. It’s not a perfect record by any means: it’s far too long, with a second half that drifts into familiar yet almost lazy territory, and is populated by sparse features that either feel right at home, such as Kid Cudi on the ethereal “M3tamorphosis” to downright bizarre like Kanye West on “Go2DaMoon.” What it is, however, at least at its’ best moments, is genuinely boundary-pushing. Its highs are missing the sticky baby-voiced earworms of Die Lit, but in their stead comes a far more raw and unique sound. Carti’s new description of himself as punk and a “rockstar” has pushed the buttons of those who feel ownership over those terms: in a way, that makes him far more punk than anything we’ve seen in years.

- Casey Chamberlain

billy woods & Moor Mother- Brass

Few rappers are as veiled and unrelentingly hard to understand as MC billy woods, and few artists in the last few years have made as much of an artistic statement as poet Moor Mother. To see the two meet up on a full-length project sets a certain expectation, of grim realization and disturbingly poignant tidbits. Amazingly enough, Brass delivers on all one might expect from either of the two: a project draped in an ethereally disturbing energy and soundscape, and a vehicle for the dispersal of wisdom seemingly long locked away. The energy that woods and Moor Mother provide is often dreary, yet filled with understanding, with each retaining much of their signature style. Woods' verses feel laced with nods to vignettes and far away stories, as his best verses are want to do: “Cinders in the wind, ashes in your mouth/ It's too late to repent/ You owe and we here to collect/ You know how it go over in debt/ Numbers scribbled on butcher's paper/ A bad wager/ We waved every day, but good fences make good neighbors” woods relays on “Blak Forrest.” Moor Mother’s voice commands, filling the ears with an almost terrifying sense of understanding: “I only write for the dead, somethin' ELUCID said/ Wrong words get you cracked in the head” she asserts on “Gang For A Day”, referencing rapper ELUCID, with whom billy woods forms the duo Armand Hammer. ELUCID himself makes a few appearances on the record, alongside Mach-Hommy, Navy Blue, and Fielded, among others.

Tracks on the record range from terrifyingly chaotic, such as the vocal-less “Mom’s Gold”, morphing into a full on assault of harsh noise, to hauntingly gorgeous, such as on the flickeringly ethereal “Giraffe Hunts”: “It’s beautiful” woods himself remarks, prior to a verse that transitions into a sinister beat change which Moor Mother uses to offer a retort, as the track flips back and forth between this beauty and the filth. It’s perhaps this track which best offers a glimpse of the artistic contrast the two provide on this album. “The zoo had a decapitated giraffe/ A dedicated staff of volunteers, the acid was bad/ The gift shop was packed” woods relays, only to be cut off by Moor Mothers’ own ruminations: “Saw men draw meridians through life lines/ Why we tip-toe 'round these land mines and fault lines/ Feel the earth movin', flat earth see-saw/ Me and Woods in the rickshaw being pulled by horses/ I'm hearin' voices.” In truth, this is a record with many quotables, so infuriatingly dense and with so many thought-provoking segments that little does it justice apart from listening with full attention. An album like this feels like one that has lessons to be learned and knowledge to be gained; knowledge that perhaps should be known, but is hard to come to terms with. “But you the one what strung the rope” woods remarks. “We sacked Rome in ski-masks, stripped the pope/ Nowadays he never miss a lot, he be doin' the most... He be doin' the most.”

- Casey Chamberlain

Kid Cudi- Man On The Moon III: The Chosen

Few artists of the last decade have proven to have had such a large influence on the sounds that would follow them as Kid Cudi. The music of megastars like Travis Scott wouldn’t exist as it does without Scott Mescudi, an artist who has long been held near and dear by his fans due to his brutal honesty about his struggles with mental health, depression, and substances. Cudi’s 2009 debut album, Man On The Moon: The End Of Day, is held as a classic of its time, and for good reason, Cudi’s artistry, storytelling, and intimacy on that album is still astounding. With Cudi’s resurgence in the last few years following his critically adored collaboration with Kanye West, Kids See Ghosts, in 2018, Cudi has seemingly sought to continue his hot streak with the long-awaited third installment of the Man On The Moon series, being Man On The Moon III: The Chosen.

On first listen, this album sounds a lot like Cudi has been influenced by those who followed him rather than the other way around. Much of the first half of the record sounds like it would fit right at home on a Travis Scott album, much like last year's collaborative track between the two, aptly titled “The Scotts.” Tracks like “She Knows This” and “Tequila Shots” feature a spacey, drugged out trap vibe, with the former breaking into a groovy beat switch in its last portion. Meanwhile, other tracks branch out into new territory for Cudi, such as the drill-inspired and in-your-face “Show Out” which features a hook from the late Pop Smoke as well as a fantastic verse from Skepta, while “Rockstar Knights” features Cudi and Trippie Redd trading melodic ruminations. For much of this project, it would be easy to interpret much of this as Cudi’s takes on a number of styles birthed from his original run, and while it certainly is that, the wide swath of sounds that Cudi pulls from speaks more to his unseen influence than anything else, making much of the record feel like a statement: that without Kid Cudi, there is no Travis Scott and no Trippie Redd, so Cudi’s steps into their lanes feel like reclamation rather than imitation. Yet, the record’s strongest moments come mostly in the back half, where Cudi falls back into old habits and channels an almost updated version of the sound he originally burst onto the scene with. Tracks like “Solo Dolo III” and the gorgeous “The Void” feel like exactly what a matured “Man on the Moon” would sound like and tracks like “Lovin’ Me” featuring Phoebe Bridgers harken back to Cudi’s experiments in indie rock years ago, albeit more successfully. All in all, Man On The Moon III feels like a victory lap of sorts, a more mature Cudi revisiting the sounds he popularized and making a statement: that he is back, and better than ever.

- Casey Chamberlain

The Avalanches - We Will Always Love You

There is little an artist can do to combat the expectations they face after releasing a record like The Avalanches’ 2000 masterpiece Since I Left You, one of the most highly regarded plunderphonics records ever released. To follow up an album like that is no small feat, and the duos’ 2016 follow-up,  Wildflower, is a commendable release, although a different beast entirely. It’s with the groups’ newest release that their strategy with that record has been reaffirmed: the only way to follow up a record of such stature as Since I Left You is to simply not do so. The Avalanches’ We Will Always Love You is more 2016 Avalanches than it is 2000s; it’s a sprawling, grand project with features from some of the most talented artists working across the board, focused less on instrumental epics comprised of samples and more on flowing backdrops for their guests to flaunt their talents. Themed around the vastness of space and the Golden Record on the Voyager, the extraterrestrial-ness of the record permeates its every corner; its grandness feels like its statement, as it stands larger than the sum of its parts. An air of nostalgia flows through it, laced with voice memos from a woman professing, over the length of the record, that though she is now gone, perhaps departed from the mortal plane, she will “always love you.”

The features on the album are an achievement on their own: any album featuring this wide of a swath of talent must be commended for its boldness. To hear Denzel Curry, Rivers Cuomo, MGMT, Pink Siifu, Blood Orange, Kurt Vile, and countless others on a project together and have it sound cohesive is a miracle on its own. The interstellar nature of the album doesn’t always come across, and it’s a weighty record, at an hour and eleven minutes, and not every moment feels like it contributes to that runtime. It isn’t a perfect record by any means, and for many, especially those who fell in love with the record scratches and horse neighs of “Frontier Psychiatrist” are likely to be still disappointed in the trajectory of the prodigal sons of plunderphonics. Yet, if one can get past those expectations, there remains a larger-than-life moment to be lived through here, an intergalactic celebration of music, and one laced with themes of loss, pain, and nostalgia. The emotional peak of the record comes with the stinging “Always Black” driven by gorgeous piano and striking vocals, with a cutting poetic recital by Pink Siifu: “Stay, will you stay?” More than anything, the album plucks on that idea of staying and leaving and doesn’t let go of it. Starting from the voicemail left to the listener in opener “Ghost Story”, that feeling of love despite distance reverberates throughout the album’s highs and lows. Love has no distance limit, The Avalanches seem to be telling us. Across the vastness of space, that love persists.

- Casey Chamberlain

Channel Tres - i can’t go outside 

Channel Tres has no damn business being as smooth as he is. With an array of singles, remixes and an EP under his belt, Tres has seamlessly blended techno and house with West Coast rap and production to create a sound that is uniquely his own. And his voice is the icing on the cake. Tres moves effortlessly from rap to R&B, sometimes without a change in pitch. There are times when Tres sounds like he rolled out of bed and started recording and it still works perfectly. And on his debut album, i can’t go outside, Channel Tres is firing on all sonic cylinders. Tres has elements from techno, house, rap and R&B in his production arsenal and spreads them throughout the track list. The album’s opener (“i can’t go outside – intro) features a synth-focused, breezy R&B beat and the flick of a lighter, letting you know how to listen to the project. On “2000 chevy malibu”, Tres delivers lyrics to drive along the Pacific Coast highway to over hip-hop-based drums and encapsulating, spacey synths to make you stare out the window. Although overlooked due to its classification as an interlude, “broke down kid” is easily the most interesting track. Here, Tres rolls completely into house and techno to create a beat that could be a standalone instrumental. Sticking with his pattern of merging different, or even opposing, themes or genres into one, Channel Tres laces the bouncy, uplifting beat of “broke down kid” with lyrics regarding mental distress and unhealthy self-isolation. But you’ll never get the same song twice. Following the best interlude of 2020 (so far), Tres teams up with Tyler, The Creator for the bass-driven “fuego”. This track features glorious background vocals and some steamy lyrics from the duo. Although his debut was only seven tracks, Channel Tres has proven he’s capable of taking his sound anywhere. 

- Charlie Darnall

Kota the Friend - Lyrics to GO, Vol. 2

To be honest, I’m not sure Kota the Friend’s Lyrics to GO, Vol. 2 is essential to the hip-hop genre. I doubt Kota the Friend would even say the album is the best in his discography. But artists don’t have to make albums that make you rethink your life, win awards, or get radio plays. Sometimes artists just want to make something fun and positive to listen to and if there’s one thing I can say about Lyrics to GO, Vol. 2 is that it’s good for the soul. And we all need that right now. What the fifteen-minute project lacks in time it makes up for in storytelling, production and *vibes*. “Luke Cage” is the best example of an equal distribution of these qualities. On the track, Kota reflects nostalgically on past neighborhoods, romantic interests, and friendships. The beat is a coffee shop bop with a groovy guitar riff and the organs near the end. “Flowers” features Kota reflecting on growth over a perfectly placed piano sample that almost competes for the listeners attention. To me, this song sounds like what looking at a bed of flowers in full bloom looks like. If you agree, let me know – it’s 2am and I think I’m onto something. Ok, not to go deeper into this, but Lyrics to GO, Vol. 2 includes another song that (somehow) matches its sound to its title: “Living Room”. The sampling of distant conversation, acoustic guitar chords and Kota’s discussion of safe spaces and peace will make you want to curl up on the couch. Kota also further solidifies his flow as one of the best on this project. Most songs only contain one verse which makes it even more impressive that Kota can move between and within topics impeccably. I cannot think of a single time or situation where this album couldn’t make you feel even the slightest bit uplifted and, for that reason, it’s essential. 

- Charlie Darnall

Arlo Parks - Collapsed In Sunbeams

After the virality of Arlo Parks’ “Black Dog”, a song written so gracefully yet accurately about depression, showcased the singer’s incredible poetic abilities, R&B fans and critics alike patiently awaited her debut album. And with Collapsed In Sunbeams, Parks doesn’t disappoint. I have to start with Parks’ voice - everything else revolves around it. The lyrical content and production are great, but without Parks’ soft and angelic vocals, every song would sound like Robert Frost poems being read over a Wallows jam session. With the blessing of a voice that pairs well with anything, Parks is free to stray from the blueprint “Black Dog” created and enter new genres and explore new themes. Although placed only two songs above “Black Dog”, “Hope” functions as its antithesis. With breezy and gentle indie rock production to match, the chorus serves as both a reminder to the audience and to herself: “You’re not alone like you think you are.” But if “Hope” is Parks’ mental ceiling and “Black Dog” is her floor, then every other track must be a mix of the two. On tracks like “Too Good”, where Parks reflects fondly on her partner from a failed relationship, or “Eugene”, where she discusses falling in love with a friend, Parks expresses the complexity, and sometimes irrationality, of her emotions. Instrumental inspirations on Collapsed In Sunbeams include indie pop (“Portra 400”), folk (“Collapsed In Sunbeams”) and pure R&B (“For Violet”). Although sonically eclectic, every piece of production perfectly fits Parks’ lyrical themes. Through the highs and the lows, Collapsed In Sunbeams signifies the beauty in the struggle. This line from “Portra 400” does the best job at encapsulating that: “Making rainbows out of something painful”.

- Charlie Darnall

Upcoming Releases:

Slowthai- Tyron (2/12)

Few have the energy that UK rapper Slowthai has on a track. 2019’s Nothing Great About Britain saw Slowthai burst onto the scene and cause a commotion that feels like it hasn't calmed down since. On his new record Tyron, however, Slowthai seems poised to get a bit more introspective, approaching his childhood traumas and his newfound fame. The first single for the project, “feel away” featuring the signature crooning of James Blake as well as Mount Kimbie, feels immediately like a shift, with a more intimate sound. Other singles including the bouncy “MAZZA” featuring A$AP Rocky and “CANCELLED” with Skepta feel like a more refined version of the energy we’ve seen Slowthai channel before. The rapper’s sophomore outing will most certainly further shape Slowthai’s artistic direction. Tyron arrives February 12th and features Skepta, A$AP Rocky, Denzel Curry, Dominic Fike, and more.

- Casey Chamberlain

JPEGMAFIA- EP2! (2/12)

Not content with last years’ excellent EP!, the enigmatic JPEGMAFIA has announced plans to release a second EP this month, featuring his recent single “FIX URSELF!” as well as the previously released “LAST DANCE!” from his last season of single releases among a batch of new tracks, including “PANIC ROOM!” which features co-production from James Blake. The rappers’ steady output has been accompanied by a widening soundscape on his newest material, further setting Peggy as one of the most forward-thinking artists currently working. The aptly titled EP2! drops February 12th and features the previously mentioned singles along with new tracks “INTRO!” “KELTEC!” “THIS ONES FOR US!” and “FEED HER!”

- Casey Chamberlain 

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