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#eva redgrave
grillsdontcry · 6 months
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Mommy?
When he dreams, he doesn't call her Mother.
Close-up below
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velvet4510 · 1 month
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perfettamentechic · 1 year
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21 marzo … ricordiamo …
21 marzo … ricordiamo … #semprevivineiricordi #nomidaricordare #personaggiimportanti #perfettamentechic
2022: Eva-Ingeborg Scholz, attrice e doppiatrice tedesca. Nata a Berlino nel 1928, si avvicina alla recitazione dopo la seconda guerra mondiale grazie all’attrice austriaca Hilde Körber, che le offre lezioni gratuite che Eva alterna al suo lavoro di donna delle pulizie. Nel 1948 viene scelta tra 300 candidate per il ruolo principale in 1-2-3 Corona di Hans Müller, al quale seguono altri di gran…
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kingbuffy · 3 months
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How I hc dmc and bayonetta to be connected. Lol did you know Luka's last name is Redgrave. And in Bayonetta there's a witch named Eva who made a deal with a powerful demon ;))))
Yes I also hc Mundus and Sparda to be brothers it's just too perfect not to be true capcom
Don't mention my uneven lines I'll throw up
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midnightkolrath · 5 months
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Pondering about Dante's ages throughout the series
Because I've been up til 7 AM thinking about all of this a few times.
This isn't the first post I've seen out there about this, and there's ones that are pretty good with mathing out stuff....I'm just doing added thinking because that's just what I do, lmao.
Disclaimer: All of this stuff is based on what’s been stated in the games and other media that I’ve gathered, but regardless…none should be taken as hard fact unless Capcom decides to SPECIFICALLY state things directly in any sort of official media. What I list as “canon” are things I see line up appropriately based on the timeline DMC5 has set. That’s why “pretty much” and “likely” canon are used.
Childhood: 7/8 years old (7 pre-birthday before he got his half of the amulet, 8 the very moment of) [Pretty much canon]
Okay, now as far as I've seen, these ages are pretty much canon with how things add up. Question is, I've been trying to find the EXACT source where it was stated the twins were 8 when they got their amulets. I see it on the wiki but with a lack of citation, so...if anyone can pinpoint it anywhere for me, that'd be great. I'm assuming these ages are just what we know because of how the timeline adds up.
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DMC TAS Episode 8: Likely 10-11 years old [Guessed Estimate]
There's assumptions/implications (or downright even facts) that Dante was roaming around for some time completely alone after surviving the attempt on his life (which is tragic/sad to think about on its own), and based on how this episode shows "Tony" looking to be slightly older but not TOO old…so I assume he aged abit more, guessing to be around 10 years old. There's no exact estimate on how long he was there, before "disappearing"…but the episode also has Dante deny he's the same "Tony" being assumed, buuuut…there's layers, hah. Probably will go into it when I give this a deeper dive one day.
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DMC1 Novel: Likely 18 [Guessed estimate; I'd say its p much canon]
Non-canon in some places but canon in others (I'd say DMC5 and Before the Nightmare realigned a good bit of it nicely), this originally took place as a direct segment into DMC1 before DMC3 came into existence.
If we realign it, it'd mean the events of this would take place before DMC3 and segment into the DMC3 novel instead. Which is funky to think about, but hey Tony Redgrave era is pretty nuts on its own.
Dante's a mercenary during this, drinking and hanging out around a bar…so its very safe to assume he's 18 here. Not digging a rabbit hole on other drinking ages here because then it gets messy (lmao). We'll see how the anime treats this era, but its looking to be a parallel universe sooo....who knows.
DMC3: 18 (Manga), 19 (Game)
According to how Dante says its been around a year since he and Vergil last met (Which is the Manga; Even if its basically incomplete, with a planned 3rd volume that was going to be about Lady being cancelled), Dante is pretty much solidified to have been 19 around the time of the game. Pretty much aligns with how he's easily in his late teens around this point.
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DMC1: 23 (Early concept Sample script draft), 27/28 (Official(?)) [Non-canon (obviously for the draft); Pretty much Canon (For the final game version)]
According to Trish, its been around 20 years since the death of Eva (Well accurately the 'resurrection of mundus', but well…this is early DMC canon, I'll take that alignment). This misaligned easily with the sample script, but alights better with the assumed correct/final age, as Dante was around 7/8 when the tragedy occurred.
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With the sample script stating him as 23, its a scary idea on a what if that the twins would've lost their mother at a MUCH younger age…or if we do the math and keep the other ages the same…Dante being 23 would've meant DMC3 took place around 5 years prior…and Dante being 7/8 when losing his mom would've meant that the incident took place around 15-16 years ago, and not 20. Not so much AROUND 20 years, but this was the sample script based on the game originally being RE4 in concept, so its not really connected to the final product or main canon.
I included the sample script age here just because its interesting to think about the original RE4 version of DMC1 that pre-dated what would end up becoming the start of the franchise we all know and love today. Its important history in the way RE4 itself is pretty important as it was as revolutionary as DMC would end up becoming for action games. Think of this as bonus for fun addition, heh.
DMC TAS (Anime): Early/Mid-30s [Guessed Estimate] DMC2 Novel/DMC2: Mid-30s [Guessed Estimate]
This estimate requires some math and shit am I bad at it. But based on other factors its not a terrible guess. Its also a safe guess. DMC TAS is obviously awhile after DMC1 and DMC2 is awhile after DMC TAS.
DMC4: Around 40 (3142 graphics book) [Likely Canon]
If going by the fact that Nero is stated to be around the same age Dante was in DMC3, then that'd mean Nero is 19. If Dante's around 40 (Note: The specification is AROUND, not EXACTLY 40), then that would make him atleast 38/39 years old.
As an added fun fact, the 3142 graphics book is named as such because it used to be the timeline order for the games. Of course, DMC5 changed this and the order became 3124. Also confirmed as a change by Producer Matt Walker here.
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Of course, the full timeline order is like...
DMC1 Novel (Main events with a few adjustments/retcons) -> DMC3 Manga -> DMC3 -> DMC1 -> DMC TAS/DMC TAS Drama CDs -> DMC2 Novel -> DMC2 -> DMC4 Deadly Fortune novel (to a point; then it parallels to the game) -> DMC4 -> Visions of V (Prequel at first through V's PoV until it parallels the game) -> DMC5 Before the Nightmare (Prequel/Tease up to right before the game plot) -> DMC5
Probably missing a few things here, but eeeeuuuhhh pretty mush the gist.
...Got abit off topic there. Whoops.
DMC5: Early-40s [Guessed Estimate; Likely canon]
Before the Nightmare states DMC4 was 5 years earlier. In game confirms, due to Patty's age, that TAS was 10 years earlier, as Patty was 8 around the time the anime was occurring.
Based on calculations, 42 would be the mark as if Dante was 38 in 4, BTN’s statement would mark him as that. I don’t want to label it as the HARD canon (as I would like to see Capcom hard confirm these ages one day, even if the maths add up).
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This is just my general thoughts with stuff we know/can obviously assume. There's many other posts out there, like I said, with several others putting more precise info and here is a good read of someone's timeline calculations along with this here, this one as well aaand a more accurate timeline placement here (Along with other lore goodies for those looking).
Also note this was all written originally when I was sleep deprived at like 7 AM while I was trying to clean up/revise things at the moment, but I may still have abit of things kinda mixed. Hopefully I'm tossing this out comprehensible enough, hah.
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prototypelq · 7 months
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DMC DISHONORED AU
I`ve mentioned a couple of times that during answering Ember’s @dmc-questions-anon crossover ask, I mixed, purely on a whim, DMC Sparda loser twins into a Dishonored-setting-AU and truth be told, the idea has not left me ever since. A week later, I've decided to compile everything I had for this AU into one post, so here it goes.
UPDATE a month later: I went over this post again to bring up to speed some things we've thought out with @stashoflostsouls! Her help with this AU has been immense and the brainworms might have stopped a long time ago if not for her, so this whole thing is her fault now xDDD (no regrets)
This is not a complete rewrite of the original post, but the DMC3/Dishonored 1 plotline has been edited heavily and new stuff brought to light. Adaptations of other DMC and Dishonored games will be coming later too.
Big thank you to everyone who is following this monstrocity as it builds itself along!
Personal notes: I've played Dishonored games, finished only the second though, as they had not grabbed me as they do other people. Still, I am enamoured with it's setting and aesthetic. The whole AU was smashed together in my head because, in my opinion, Dishonored does not do enough work with it's characters, and DMC does not do enough to flesh out it's worldbuilding, so I mashed them together to get the best of both worlds - a super unqiue and cool thought out setting and incredibly compelling and deep characters.
Disclaimer: I am very much a DMC enjoyer, however I am not that deep into Dishonored. I've refreshed my memory with some lore videos, on the topic, but please feel free to correct/advise/give commentary on adaptation of Dishonored stuff. DMC fans too! This is very much thoughts-in-process kind of AU
With all that out of the way - as a short summary Dishonored setting is a kind of mash of royalty+hitman+humans with powers AUs together. Dishonored is a tesla-punk-ified victorian britain setting (so we got strict class division with start differences in between, helthcare is nonexsitent, and the Empire is built upon the four kingdoms, each one on their own Isle) that is built upon the whale oil and whale hunting (that is used as fuel for electricity). Setting is also magical in nature through through the Void (kind of a mix of purgatory/death/dream/eldrich horror dimension, which has an avatar/god in the form of the Outsider, his worship is considered herecy by the local 'inquisition' but it can't fuly stop the weird, horrifying or perverse rituals that are held in his name). This world is quite dark, death is abundant, and violence is quite common. Nobles play their policial games and order asassinations to eliminate their rivals, common men are exploited at industrial factories, whale hunting is the main source of income and progress, scientists and philosophers play with their deadly inventions and even human lives for the sake of their research. (for vibe purposes check out the Drunken Whaler song and Dishonored 2 trailer they sum up the aesthetic exceptionally well)
Alright, so, how can we (hopefully) meaningfully insert the DMC cast into Dishonored, and how I, with major help from Raven, see the story of the twins going on from there:
Background and general setup:
In this AU Eva Redgrave is the Empress of the Empire of the Isles, Sparda Santiago is a talented swordsman, who rose from the poor districts, climbed ranks and became the Royal Protector of the Empress (=bodyguard). Romance bloomed from there, and they had twin sons and heirs for the throne, their relationship not announced to the public, but also not a secret to anyone in court.
Twins were royal children and had a lot of freedom in their childhood. Still, they had their tutoring done by an established professor of the Academy of the Natural Phylosophy - sir Arkham. Needless to say, both boys hated their lessons, and they picked up that their father was hanging around more losely when those were held. They did enjoy fencing a lot, sparring with their dad and each other especially, and were quite good at it. (not sure where to put in so I'll insert that here) Sparda favoured using bird mail, and had a favourite crow, twins tried playing with it sometimes too.
Canon DMC Eva was able to raise her demonic sons, so I imagine she had a steel spine. In this AU I think this would mean her politics as Empress were more strict than the Empress Jessamine of thre Dishonored setting - the Spymaster was not allowed to work under the radar (as he is allowed to in canon Dishonored which causes a myriad of problems later), and she would try to manage the long list of social issues and class difference, but of course, won't be able to solve them all. Her politics were based on maintaining good trading relations with other nations and trying to improve the life of lower classes, which did earn her some opposition from nobles and 'traditinal' oriented individuals, but did not stop her. Sadly, just one Empress is one reign was able to improve the lives of common people a little, but the things mostly stayed as they were.
Since her reign and politics were not a popular choice, plus she had twins as heirs (so the chance of her sucessor continuing this course was high), an asassination was arranged.
During the outbreak of a rat plague (which happened naturally in this case), the quarantine helped prevent it's spreading, but there was no known cure. Eva tried asking the other countries for help, but received no concrete answers, and she was getting desparate. As a last resort, she decided to sent out Sparda himself on a diplomatic mission, and to conduct this search himself, he was very reluctant to part but the situation was dire.
Arkham, as he was common presense in royal court, learned of this mission, and with the help of opposing parties and the Spymaster, planned a coup to asssinate and overthrow Eva during Sparda's absence. Members of this coup were not exactly concerned about the plague, as the affected districts of the city had been quarantined in time, and posed no threat to them, plus the main casualty here are the poor. However, the plan did not exactly work out as it should - Sparda finished his mission earlier than planned, as there was no cure for the rat plague. With these grave news, he sent out his mail crow to message to Eva about this, and the fact that he was coming back earlier. Arkham was able to capture a crow with this message, caged it, and began planning for Sparda's return - with his knowledge or the arcane and acute inventor's mind he conducted a magic trap, a curse, to stop Sparda in time. Literally in this case. And so, with Sparda's early return, he was warmly met by Arkham, then subsequently betrayed and frozen in time. Frozen Sparda was held somewhere in the dungeons of the Arkham estate. The asassination took place as planned.
Eva is killed during a nighttime stroll, but the twins are a harder target inside the palace walls. Things get bloody and palace guard is alerted. However, the twins chose that night to sneak out to play in the garden, and they stumble into seeing the last of their mother. Some of the assasins stay behind to keep an eye on their escape route, they see the twins and give chase. The twins are of course, shocked and traumatised, but they did their best to give the pursuers a hard time, as both are skilled fencers. Working together, they disarmed one of them, and Vergil was even able to deal some blows, but ultimately they are just children and had to run. Twins escape to the lighthouse, which had docks with some boats that Sparda used to them swimming around. Near the cliffside, one of the asassins has had enough and, seeing as the waves will drown out any sound, shoots. Dante falls into the ocean and is held under by the waves.
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Vergil has no choice but to continue running, and near the lighthouse, he gets miracuously saved by Arkham.
yes this is technically a roleswap as Vergil is saved,and Dante is forced into contact with supernatural, but if saving was done by Arkham does it really count?
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Dante gets chosen by the Outsider and lives through being bestowed the Mark upon. As this was done at a young age, there will be some repercussions.
The fallout of the asassination is hard on everyone. Publically, Eva and the royal family are stated to have been deceased by the plague that they tried to prevent, and in the place of an Empress, a ruling counsil of wealthy noble houses is instated.
The curse Arkham conducted was powerful, but short-lived, so a couple of years after the tragedy he finds himself free, escapes, and finds himself displaced in time. His family dead or missing, with no trails to follow to find any of them. The tragedy weights down heavy on him, he leaves the kingdom of Gristol to try to pick up the lost pieces of himself, with no luck.
Dante is picked up drifting in the sea by a ship. With no resources, stranded and alone, he has nothing to back up his claims of being a royal heir, and no help in sight. When the news of the royal tragedy reach him, there is no point in even trying anymore, and he is forced into the life of a street urchin. He hides the Mark he received, and slowly gets used to it's powers... and the consequences of having them. With his wits, and the advantage of the Mark, he makes the best of this situation - avoids the gangs to the best of his ability, travels by stowawaying in some caargo crates on different ships, then manipulating the crewmen to teach him sailing. He makes contacts, deals, gambles and grows street-smart and cunning. Dante is known at Enzo's bar, is a common sailor in Morrison's trader ship crew, and even dealt with some contrabandists/pirates like Lucia. When not sea-faring, he spends his time in fighting rings, or investigates anything Void-related in exchange for favours. This payment system makes his services available to locals, but he does those secretly, protected by an alternate look and a mask.
Note: this background negates some of the issues the canon twins have, most notable - their demonic-human nature conflict, and in both cases the twins grow up almost properly socialised, who would have thought. Basically what I am getting at is that there is more free space and opportunity for twins to get to know someone. However, neither me, nor Raven are really interested in going down those alleys, so there won't be shipping notes here. I just wanted to point out that in this seting, relationships are not half as complicated as they are in the canon DMC. I would not be opposed to hearing some Lady/Vergil or Dante/Lucia headcanons tho
Vergil is raised in secret by Arkham in his estate, which goes as well as you might have expected. Vergil takes very badly to everything that has happened, he growns up only slightly paranoid as the result of recurring nightmares, half of the time - not his own. Arkham trying to force himself into a father figure for Vergi was not helping matters in any way, and only made Vergil fight back against any sort of control more. Vergil spends a lot of time training his physical and fencing skills (to never be taken by surprise again), studies a lot of different science fields, as any competent heir should (heir to the throne of the Empire, an heir to Eva Redgrave, not in any way shape or form did he want to be controlled by Arkham. the only reason he even tolerated Arkham and his behavior is because Vergil had nowhere to go to, and if he wanted to reinstate himself and his family name later in life he needed the jumpstart Arkham's resourches, libraries and teachings provided). He starts attending high class events like balls and such, as a special guest of some imaginary rising noble house under the name of Paul Southworth.
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As a treat, have a DMC3/Dishonored1 plot adaptation:
Twins are in their twenties.
Arkham, in all thess years has been unsuccesfull in all his attempts to 'mold' Vergil into a manipulable figure, and he tries to go for another approach - starts forcing Vergil and Mary (lot Lady yet(?)) interactions. Both are of course, aware of what Arkham wants from them and appropriatly hate each other on these forced meetings.
Somewhere, around this time, during one of the masked balls, a woman takes great interest in him, and he feels frustrated with his life and rebeliious enough to indulge her.
Probably after a screaming match or two between Lady and Vergil, they actually find a connection in this mutual hatred for the situation Arkham is forcing them into and bond instead. Lady ends up taking some fencing lessons from Vergil from the whole ordeal, which they conduct in secret, of course. They grow closer and are on their way to becoming friends, which Arkham actually sees as his plan working.
Everything changes after the mysterious death of Kalina Ann.
Mary is taking her death extremely badly, she is practically inconsolable, and wouldn't leave her room. Arkham, the wonderful parenting figure he is, and who needs his daughter for future plans, makes the best decision possible - buys her a doberman. For some reason, Mary is not thrilled at this idea at all, she hates then dog and he is not well-behaved at all, which means there's now an uncontrollable and uncared for doberman going loose in the estate. Vergil and the dog met a couple of times, but the dog left him alone because he recognised this man's authority, and Vergil himself was uninterested in bonding with it. His opinion shifter when he saw the dog harassing some estate staff, and poor person retaliating back, which almost ended badly for everyone if Vergl hadn't intervened. He berated the person for being unable to take control of the situation, and the doberman got his own share of it too. The incident did prove to the dog that Vergil was the leader here, so he accepted his 'second in command' position and started diliggently following Vergil everywhere. Doberman is not clingy or overly affectionate, so Vergil was okay with his, and also he welcomed the company a little, because the death of Kalina affected him a lot too. She was the only person in the whole estate he felt comfortable around, and while they did not spend much time together, it reminded him too much of his childhood trauma. But this time Vergil was older, more competent and decided to take control of the situation himself - so he starts researching everything he can get his hands on about the Royal Tragedy, and secretly goes vigilanty-ing at night, masked, to gather the information in other private soures or anywhere he can, really.
The trauma and the doberman dillema between them, Vergil and Mary grow distant in their hurting at this time. Mary, when she is feeling more like herself again, decides to look into the death of her mother, which was too sudden to be anything natural, and was covered up quickly by Arkham and the public. She can't say for sure, but has a hunch this is related to Arkham's private Void studies (which are publically banned), and thinks there is something very fishy going on. She finds a contact and meets a person, who is claimed to be known to help in these situations. During a metting, the person is wearing a mask, so she doesn't recogise his face. He starts looking for information on Arkham, and finds some very very messed up things on him.
On night of another big noble ball, he decides to go to the source - Arkham estate and take a look through there.
That same night Vergil decided to use this opportunity to venture out himself, he got ready and was almost out, before he notices Ceberus, the name he gave the doberman, spotting some shadowy figure on the nearby rooftops heading in the direction of the Arkham's estate. He intercepts the breaker-in and they start fighting. The fencing match is at a stalemate, neither opponent able to break another's guard, untill the intruder freezes for a moment, which was all the opening Vergil needed. He goes in for a stab, only for the intruder to teleport away and make a run for it. Vergil can't let a Marked asassin get away, not after his childhood tragedy, he commands Cerberus to alert the guard and chases after the intruder. On the rooftop they catch up to one another, and lo and behold, the breaker in was Vergil's long lost brother.
It was @stashoflostsouls' wonderful headcanon that when the twins touch for the first time, it is then that Vergil himself is visited by the Outsider and Marked.
Just as in DMC canon, the twins' goals are actually the same here - both Vergil and Dante are looking for the conspirators of their mother's asassination and for anynews on their father. Unlike in DMC canon, there are less pressuring circumstance here, twins have more breathing room to actually talk to each other, and this is why here they band Together to reach their goals.
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From this point on the story goes pretty much same as Dishonored 1 story - the twins investigate different noblemen that were plotting against Eva Redgrave, and it is revealed that Arkham was in the middle of it all, which was also the reason why Vergil's search has been so unsuccesfull - the evidence has been right under his nose the entire time. This is also happening during another outbreak of the rat plague, which this time, as Dante learns, originated inside the country, and is definitely not a natural occurence is it claimed to be.
This second rat plague outbreak is the Spymaster's that worked under late Empress' rule idea of 'ending poverty' (so some Dishonored 1 canon events are mixed here as well). Twins will find this out and deal with him, and the other 'royalists' during their investigation, which ends with Arkham. In his dungeons they also find the crow Sparda favoured, the message of his early return in the midst of other papers. Arkham ignored the bird after the initial capture, but staff of the estate kept it fed in the cage, he is quite old already but the twins are happy to see him nonetheless.
This plotline ends with Vergil publically reinstating himself as Redgrave, Dante keeping himself away from nobles, perhaps with a sailing trip or two, and very supportive of his brother's cause. Vergil won't be pushing for the throne just yet, in the moment he will be satisfied with getting the Redgrave estate back, but the throne is his end goal in the future.
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Void abilities!
Vergil: professional swordsman. Has a cane-sword with him on all times. Cane-handle can be replaced without screwing the balance of the blade, so he goes with his favourite sword on missions when he expects trouble and keeps his wristbow (=compact crossbow). Vergil grew up in company of sharkes, disguised as nobles, so he prefers the ghost stealth approach so the target is not even alerted to anything happening, but for the same reason he will not hesistate to draw blood (that's not to say he likes killing, just that it is acceptable under pressing circumstances or to clear an objective)
Void Abilities: Displace (teleport, but requires a mark to be placed beforehand to teleport to, is a great tool for planning your approach beforehand or preparing an escape), Foresight/Shadowwalk (allows the bearer to explore ahead in a form of a summon that can scout ahead and take form of black bird, cat, or amorphous shadow creature, user is stationary during this ability and summons can only knock down enemies, but not kill them), Doppleganger (not new to DMC fans, works the same here - a controlled clone summon) and Bend time (allows user to stop time=gain amazing speed for a couple of seconds, user is able to freely move and act during this ability)
Dante: professional brawler. built like a brickhouse/sailor and not for show either. Keeps his wrists bandaged and always ready for trouble. Uses assasin's blade - shortsword with broad blade, stylised after fish scales, but has a modified crooked-up guard for catching blades and for easier disarming moves. Uses pistol for ranged combat. Prefers a stealthier approach, will absolutely brawl if a chance is presented and knock some heads down. Won't kill unless absolutely no other option is presented.
Void abilities: innate Rat hearing and rune/bonecharm sense (= Dark vision), Blink with the time-stop-before-use upgrade (a little more useful than other teleports for combat as you get time pause to think the encounter through, can't act or move during use, just stops time to looks around/think through before teleporting), Wind blast (a wind blow strong enough to literally plaster enemies if thrown into a wall... strenght of the ability is controlled), Pull (pickpocketing and eldreich-horror levitating bodies to the user), Semblance (lets the user make a void copy of a person's face and wear it around, does not alter voice or manners just casts an illusion over the wearer), and Doppleganger.
Twins's mutual connection to the Void, and with their souls attuned to each other, gives them some unique abilities too. They can establish a connection with each other through the Void dimension if in close proximity, share visions (for ex. Vergil scouts ahead with his powers and Dante will be able to see it too), and even share their abilities if in direct contact. Their souls connecting was always thing, it is why Vergil had so much nightmares in his childhood - he had been forced to see Dante's too.
Now, for Dante's early life Void contact consequences - he is sensitive to the Void. He has a sense for finding and locating any Void artefacts and he can hear and understand rat thoughts. Thankfully, the latter ability he somewhat learned to controll later in life, because let me tell you, Dishonored rat speech is Messed Up. (Gnaw, gnaw. Set teeth to hard wood, soft plaster, stone. Past it, a path. Rooms of delicious sea-scent, fish flesh. A feast for us! Soon, soon. First, we gnaw.) It did help Dante survive on the streets a lot, and he took advantage of many opportunities thanks to this. Rat speech is also how he learns the new rat plague outbreak is not natural. Whales and whale bone affect him too. In Dishonored, whales seem to be very intricately connected to the Void, once stated to even exist in both dimensions simultaniously, so to a Void-sensitive person this is going to be a lot to handle. This is one of the reasons Dante stays clear of whaler ships - he will hear loud and panicked whale screeches and whails and he won't be able to deal with that, this is an ability he cannot damper. He will grow used to it, but going near whale meat can factory or sailing during a whale migration season, when they are hunted in great numbers, is a very very big no no for him. I am absolutely not going to force him to go through something traumatising like this ever, surely not through a canon whale meat factory level from one of the DLCs, no huh, especially not with Vergil for company to literally carry him through this
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Thank you for your time and I hope you like what I and Raven have been cooking up here! Next update we will have: Trish showing up to overthrow government, Dante going solo and bonding with Cerberus, Patty and her pet rat, Vergil deciding to kill God, and Kyrie being a witch.
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suvidrache · 11 months
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A Ruined Childhood
age in bio when interacting. minors do not interact.
Word Count: 838 / Read it on AO3 / Wattpad | Event List
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Vergil is much different from Dante.
Vergil preferred to be alone. He was happy with you, however; he didn't like going to visit places much. He would occasionally take you on dates to small places where there were no people or very few people. He loved you, but he didn't want to run the risk of someone who knows him hurting or even killing you. He is a very private man.
Vergil would sometimes bring you home things from his trips. He never disclosed his occupation, in case you wanted to join in, or if something were to happen. He didn't want you to worry about him. He knew that you could handle yourself out there, but he didn't want to run the risk of you getting hurt. Even if it wasn't his fault, he would still blame himself for it. He wanted you to stay safe and also stay away from Dante. He found Dante to be annoying and he would hate if Dante started flirting or making comments about you. Dante loved to tell jokes and mess with Vergil. He didn't need to give Dante another reason to mess with him.
The only reason Vergil ever returned to help Dante out is that, despite how much he dislikes him, he is his brother, and he couldn't fight them alone. Both Dante and Vergil were born of Sparda and Eva. Dante had become a demon hunter and Vergil? He had desired power and to follow in the footsteps of his powerful demon father. Eva had hidden Dante away and searched for Vergil, to no avail. She had died trying and Vergil had been haunted for years, believing his mother had cared more about Dante than him.
Redgrave City had once been a city full of life. It was a happy and active place. Before the demons attacked it, before the land had been destroyed, brought back, and destroyed again. Many survivors left the city in hopes of finding a safe and better place.
Vergil sat on the couch reading the newspaper. He enjoyed reading a lot and preferred to read classic literature, but he liked to keep up with the things that happened in the city.
Vergil's childhood home had been destroyed when he was a child by demons. He had continued to reside there, despite the terrible condition it was in. He had done little to fix it and to bring back the home to its former glory. His home was a mansion on the outskirts of town. Not many came by here and if they did, they didn't bother to come to the house - or what remains of the house. When Vergil met you, he realized that if things continued any further, he would have to restore his home. He couldn't let you see the saddened state his home had become. So, in his free time, he began to restore the house. It was a slow and steady progress. It was better than it had once been. However, there was still work that needed to be done. You had no problem with it and helped Vergil out with as much as you could. You weren't bothered by the lack of care some places in the house had. You enjoyed helping to restore the place to its former glory.
You had left for the store and would be returning soon. Vergil had nothing to worry about until it hit him. You had been gone a while. Demons and Dante roamed the land. What happened if one of them got to you? He threw his paper aside and quickly got ready. He headed out the door and headed down the same pathway you had taken, or so he had hoped. It wasn't long before he had run into you.
"Y/N, are you okay?"
"Yes, I'm okay, thank you. How are you?"
"I'm fine. I was just worried something had happened to you."
"Oh! No, it's okay. I just grabbed a little too many." You said with a small smile to help put him at ease. He returned with a small smile and he grabbed some of the groceries from you. Together, you both made your way home while Vergil kept watch for any demons that may be near. He didn't want to lose you to them.
He opened the door for you and followed in after you. He helped you to put the groceries away and then he went upstairs. He debated whether to do it here or not. It wouldn't be very romantic, but he didn't entirely want to leave the house. He grabbed the box from the drawer and went back downstairs. Only quietly, as he did not want to ruin the surprise yet. You were heading to the sitting room and so he appeared behind you, dropped to one knee, and held the ring box open.
"Y/N, would you make me the happiest man alive?"
You turned and your hands cupped your face. You nodded and lowered your hands.
"Yes, I will."
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xycuro-illuminati · 1 year
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Howdy! Remember that one post I did of a "What if?" Where Dante used the Yamato on himself to separate his human and demon half? Well, two years later, I decided to revisit that and give his human half, D, a full redesign and ref! Second image is D with his familiar, the doppelganger, and I gave his demon half, Tony Redgrave, a full design revision too. And an additional pic of D and V being punk and goth shit twins together.
Sp*rdac*st fans DNI
More info on Dante's two halves and the doppelganger.
Dante used the Yamato on himself because he believed that he and Vergil (specifically V) will get along better without the grievances of the past. The idea that all of Dante's punk rock nature, along with his wild behavior, would all be put into his human half is a funny concept to me. D represents all of that and the very faded white tips are a homage to the first design.
Tony Redgrave was the name me and a few friends gave the demon half, where we thought it was funny to put all of Dante's calm and cowboy aesthetic into. Tony is relatively chill and isn't much of a fighter, however, he also holds some of Dante's trauma as well. Due to them being separated, Dante's past resentment towards his demon half is fresh for D, while Tony knows that and tries to stay out of anything hectic. Eventually, the two will learn to accept each other again before they fuse back into Dante.
The doppelganger is D's familiar; they can protect D by forming a force-field around any area temporarily as long as they're in the tattoo. Just like V, D can send the doppelganger out to help him fight (although, D prefers not to and can still use Ebony and Ivory). However, D can only use his familiar for a short period of time, because once the doppelganger realizes there's no enemies left, they will immediately turn against D and try to fight him. The familiar will also use psychological torment on D by shape-shifting into shadowy versions of either Dante (specifically dmc 1 and 2 versions), Nelo Angelo, and Eva. They will replicate their voices as well just to fuck with him. D doesn't send out his familiar a majority of the time, only having to do so if he has no other choice.
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ohbutwheresyourheart · 5 months
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you KNOW i'm coming back in with the DMC crew for the bingo card!
hey hello finally answering this a mere two weeks late lmao
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DANTE
okay so wayyyy back in the day when I first got into DMC I was admittedly far more interested in Vergil (look it was the mid-2000s and he was a cold-hearted bad boy, what do you want me to say) BUT over the years my Dante appreciation has grown exponentially
I am sobbing wailing screaming etc. I just want him to be happy. I want him to acknowledge his found family. I want Nero to drag him to Fortuna for a family dinner and have Kyrie make him eat a real meal. I want Dante to take Nero back to Redgrave to visit Eva's grave and tell him about both Eva and Sparda - the people, the parents, not the legend and his sweet wife
(I have. a lot. of Eva feelings. we'll get to that later.)
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VERGIL
BINGO. God I just I can't I can't sum up my Vergil feelings just like Vergil cannot acknowledge his own feelings because his entire life had been so wrapped up in the scant hard cold comfort of unbending pride because if you don't admit you're hurting, that's almost as good as not hurting in the first place, and he's a DEMON okay, he's a DEMON, a DEVIL, not some weak flimsy human!!!! A DEMON!!! He's a big tough strong cunning evil powerful monster!!!!
Vergil is an open wound that has been festering for decades, a body and soul stretched literally to breaking point by cruelties beyond imagining. He's been a slave, a torture victim, his mind and decisions taken from him to be a meat puppet for his father's greatest enemy, cursed by the blood of Sparda so fully and thoroughly that the only way he can deal with it is to pretend it's the human in him that's cursed. Because he can never pretend he isn't part-devil, but maybe he can quash the humanity in him and pretend he's all devil.
How far is Vergil responsible and/or culpable for his crimes? What are his crimes? How many (if any) died when he raised Temen-ni-Gru? Were those deaths forgivable in pursuit of a greater good, or was it entirely selfish? Did Vergil feel the weight of Sparda's unfulfilled promise fall on his shoulders and this way the only way he could avoid buckling under the expectations of his bloodline?
And what about the Qliopoth? Did he cause it to sprout in Redgrave, or did he just take advantage of it? Can Vergil the person be held responsible for what his demonic half did after the separation? If so, is that balanced out by the heroic actions of V as his humanity?
I just!!!!!! god. I love him so much. I want to wrap him in the softest blanket and kiss his forehead like the world's angriest little kitten. I want to send him to therapy so badly. I want him to come back for DMC 6 on the good guys team but wearing a Bad Man shirt.
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(come on I can't be the only one who sees the resemblance)
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EVA
"but beth, eva was only in the game for like five seconds before she got ganked--"
shhh. shhhhhhhh. that's the only part of DMC 5 that will never be canon in my heart.
okay so many many moons ago I read an amazing Eva origin story called Rapture on ff.net and forever after it informed my headcanons about Eva - to whit, she was a devil hunter, had overcome tragedy in her past, and was every bit fierce and furious enough to go toe-to-toe with the Devil Knight Sparda
so you will never get me to believe that Eva did not go down all guns blazing, fighting to the last drop of blood in her veins and the last gasp of breath in her lungs to protect her boys
even if you don't subscribe to that theory, you can't get away from the fact that Eva must have been a truly spectacular individual to attract Sparda's attention - especially since we've never had any indication that Sparda had any other lovers, or at least never had any children with them - and I just can't make myself believe it was all down to ~sweetness~ or ~purity~ or ~beauty~
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my Eva grew up in rural Appalachia; grew up hunting, shooting, riding, and idolising her older brother in all of his dyed-black-hair, poetry-loving, stick-and-poke tattooed, skinny goth glory
(because, after all, it only makes sense that Vergil's humanity drew upon his human roots for form and face and so many other things that Vergil never really let himself acknowledge)
and life is good, right up until the day demons attack their homestead and Eva is the only one who gets out alive -- because her beloved older brother throws her on a horse and stays behind to shoot down the horde until he goes down
I don't wanna just stuff ten thousand words about my hc Eva backstory into this meme lmao but suffice to say she's tough as nails, a tightly-coiled spring trap of badly-suppressed trauma, conflating isolationism with strength and guilt with duty. When asked why she takes up devil hunting, she will only say -- if not me, then who? When she first hears of Sparda, she thinks he's a fairytale; then, later, she's willing to believe he was once real, but has long since faded into history... and, anyway, shouldn't it be down to humans to protect themselves rather than always relying on the benediction, the protection, of a higher power?
because Eva's family were good, stern Methodist folk, and God didn't stop the demons coming. Sparda? Eva has no faith in Sparda.
and when she relocates to Redgrave City and figures out there's a powerful demon stalking the streets of the city?
she'll damn well take care of it herself-
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darkslayers-bride · 6 months
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Y’know, the Sparda boys don’t have a canonical last name, most (including me) use Sparda as their surname, but like should I give them something else?.
I mean like legally in the DMC universe Dante’s legal name is Tony Redgrave because that’s the name he told the orphanage(foster home?, i don’t remember) so that’s what would be on documents, unless he actually put in the effort to get that all straightened out, which since it’s Dante I kinda doubt lmao.
And Vergil literally doesn’t exist on records/is considered legally dead I do believe?, he’d probably have to go and declare that no, he did not in fact die in that fire 10 years ago (30 if it’s post-DMC5), and then he’d probably be able to just say his name was whatever, i honestly feel like he would literally pull the “I am Vergil, son of Sparda” and go with that, but the twins probably took their mother last name since Sparda likely didn’t have one, he was a 2000+ year old demon after all. And since the twins are both such mama’s boys, maybe he’d be attached and want to keep it?.
Actually now that I think about it, how did Eva and Sparda even get married??, Sparda has been living among humans for 2000 years, but then he either didn’t live AS a human until he met Eva, or, he went through possibly hundreds of identities throughout the past two thousand years, but they weren’t asking for proper identification back then. Actually that probably solves that, it was like the 60s, they weren’t doing background checks lmfao.
But still he probably took Eva’s last name, bc I feel like he was completely honest with her and she knew she was marrying a literal demon.
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perfettamentechic · 30 days
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21 marzo … ricordiamo …
21 marzo … ricordiamo … #semprevivineiricordi #nomidaricordare #personaggiimportanti #perfettamentechic
2022: Eva-Ingeborg Scholz, attrice e doppiatrice tedesca. È stata sposata con lo sceneggiatore George Hurdalek e con Wilfried Seyferth. (n.1928) 2022: Lawrence Dane, Lawrence Joseph Zahab, attore, sceneggiatore e regista canadese. Ha sposato Mary Laurel MacIntosh nel 1995. (n. 1937) 2017: Chuck Barris, Chuck Hirsch Barris, è stato un conduttore televisivo, produttore televisivo, regista, attore e…
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devilhuntr · 7 months
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D͞A͞ ͞N͞ ͞T͞E͞ WAS BORN THE FORSAKEN SON OF THE LEGENDARY DEMON SWORDSMAN SPARDA AND HIS SECRET MORTAL LOVER, EVA. HE IS THE YOUNGER BROTHER TO HIS TWIN, VERGIL. BOTH BOYS RECEIVED ONE HALF OF THE PERFECT AMULET⁰¹ ON THEIR 8TH BIRTHDAY, AN HEIRLOOM PASSED DOWN FROM THEIR FATHER AFTER HIS MYSTERIOUS DEATH LEFT THE FAMILY BEREAVED. WHEN DEMONS AMBUSH AND MURDER THEIR MOTHER, THE TWINS ARE TRAGICALLY SEPARATED AND DANTE, RENEWED WITH A VENGEANCE AGAINST DEMONKIND, ESCAPES INTO THE FRINGES OF HUMANITY UNDER THE ALIAS OF ANTHONY REDGRAVE.⁰²
NOW A POWERFUL SWORDSMAN HIMSELF, DANTE OPENS A SHOP UNDER THE FACADE OF A PARANORMAL INVESTIGATION BUSINESS TO LEVERAGE HIS TALENT AS A DEMON HUNTER. HE NAMES THIS BUSINESS, DEVIL MAY CRY.⁰³ IT SITS BETWEEN THE BULL'S EYE BAR AND THE LOVE PLANET STRIP-CLUB OFF OF 66 SLUM AVENUE IN A SEEDY PART OF TOWN.
THIS BLOG FEATURES TWO DISTINCT VERSES OF DANTE WITH EMPHASIS ON THE TWO MOST-IMPERATIVE PHASES OF HIS LIFE: DMC3 DANTE 「YOUNGER」 AND DMC4 DANTE 「OLDER」 BROKEN INTO TWO DETAILED SECTIONS. THE VERSION OF DANTE YOU CHOOSE TO WRITE ALONGSIDE WITH WILL GREATLY AFFECT HIS PERSONALITY AND STANDING.
𝑫𝑴𝑪𝟹 ᵀᴴᴱ𝖆𝖜𝖆𝖐𝖊𝖓𝖎𝖓𝖌 › FLIPPANT AND DISDAINFUL OF HIS DARK HERITAGE, THE TWENTY-TWO YEAR OLD DEMON-HUNTER HAS JUST BEGUN THE LONG AND ARDUOUS JOURNEY OF REVENGE. HE IS RECKLESS, UNFETTERED IN HIS EFFORTS TO VIOLENTLY OBLITERATE DEMONS, AND ENJOYS TAUNTING HIS ENEMIES WITH A CARE-FREE ATTITUDE AND WITTY COMMENTARY. ALTHOUGH HE APPEARS AT TIMES TO BE UNFEELING AND CALLOUS, DANTE POSSESSES A STRONG SENSE OF JUSTICE. THE TRUTH OF HIS DEMONIC EXISTENCE DWELLS DEEP WITHIN IN HIS DARK SOUL. HE IS ANGRY AND ALONE.
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𝑫𝑴𝑪𝟺 𝖉𝖊𝖛𝖎𝖑𝖘𝐍𝐄𝐕𝐄𝐑⅄ꓤꓛ › HE HAS COME FAR IN LEARNING TO ACCEPT HIS DAMNED EXISTENCE. DANTE, NOW AN EXPERT FIGHTER, GROWS BORED WITH THE COMMON SLAYING OF HELL-BEASTS AND DEMONS; HE SEEKS EXCITEMENT IN DANGER AND SHOWMANSHIP WITH A FONDNESS FOR DRAMATICS. STILL FLIPPANT, HIS CONSTANT QUIPS AND WITTY CYNICISM NOW EXUDE A CERTAIN CHARM. HE HAS BEEN REUNITED WITH HIS BROTHER, VERGIL. IN SPITE OF HIS COCKY ATTITUDE, DANTE'S LOVE FOR HUMANITY SURPASSES ALL. HE WILL GO TO ANY LENGTH TO PROTECT HUMANKIND FROM DEMONIC THREATS. HE IS AT PEACE WITH HIS INEXORABLE LONELINESS.
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DANTE IS NEVER WITHOUT HIS GREAT SWORD, REBELLION,⁰⁴ NOR HIS DUAL PISTOLS, APTLY NAMED EBONY AND IVORY. THESE ARE HIS WEAPONS OF CHOICE. VERY RARELY DOES HE ENGAGE HIS DEMON FORM. DANTE DISPLAYS IMPRESSIVE REGENERATIVE ABILITIES; HIS DEMONIC CONSTITUTION MAKES HIS CORPOREAL BODY PRACTICALLY INVINCIBLE.
ALTHOUGH IN CONSTANT DEBT AND VERITABLY VOCAL ABOUT IT, DANTE IS ALMOST ALWAYS WILLING TO PERFORM MISSIONS SOLELY FOR THE GOOD OF THEM. HE BORROWS MONEY RATHER LIBERALLY, BUT HAS MANAGED TO PROCURE A BILLARD TABLE, JUKEBOX, AND OTHER PRICEY PIECES FOR THE SHOP.
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THIS BLOG IS EXCLUSIVELY PLOT-ORIENTED. DͩIEͥ!ᵉ
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prototypelq · 8 months
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So the first interesting bit, the Sparda statue! The statue is keeping locked a secret hatch that leads to a tunnel, which is directly connected to the sparda mansion.
This was certainly not an accidental route Dante took, he clearly knew where to look for the structure (I prefer to call it a 'well') with his father's statue and the hatch. The well's ceiling is broken, and it seems to have been previosuly located under the highway (you can see a car bumper and the arenas around the well are littered with asphalt and cars which probably fell down), this is plus one arguement to 'Dante knew exactly where he was going' as he skipped the highway to get over to the well.
Sparda statue is actually holding the Rebellion and not just a random cool sword, which is weird, there is no Yamato imagery anywhere. Another strange bit about the hatch lock is that is is opened by filling the 'fountain' around the statue and the game fills it with blood from the roots. I sincerely hope Sparda did not use a Blood Lock for his family escape hatch, however the well does not indicate that specifically blood is needed, so that's a relief.
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What a tunnel! Qlipoth messed with the terrain here a lot, and the tunnel is quite messed up, but all the arches do hold up. There might have been more floors (there is a section with two arches coming from distinctly different paths), there are crates everywhere, and once again, torches lit. Absolutely no idea who could have lit them here.
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There is THIS beautiful section of a tunnel right before the mansion, where the ceiling broke and it is raining down. This section creates a clear cliff with a sort-of waterfall, and has an outcropping that is very much looking down the waterfall. You know. This specific design was never used in this series before, how interesting. also Dante goes up this cliff which I interpret as him constantly rewinding time back to that exact moment without ever letting these feelings go (cries)
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Now onto the mansion! I never noticed it before, but the Qlipoth main trunk grows like 2 meters away from the mansion. All the Vergil The Gardener joke are true lol
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This is what the Redgrave looks like btw. Saying the city is messed up is an understatement. This has gotta be like 50 on the Richter scale for measuring the earthquake force, truly a mystery how Any buildings are left standing in the city.
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I believe the mansion has sustained substantial damage from the earthquake, as those columns would not have been broken easily, the roof also seems pretty sturdy (and just pretty). Strangely The Wardrobe is pretty much untouched, @stashoflostsouls suggested it might have been enchanted and I completely agree here, no way that wardrobe remained untouched by the fire or by the earthquake, there is some magic involved for sure. The wardrobe is also located very close to the entrance, so Eva probably shoved Dante in there and immediately ran outside to look for Vergil.
The floor is suspiciously whole too - there are only rain puddles, and no claw marks or dark stains of any kind that are completely unrelated to harakiri attempts.
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deviltriggerdante · 8 months
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the other line i found interesting that has since been retconned in DMC5:
Eva had given her life protecting him. The past and present blended into a seamless vision, and Tony was unable to distinguish between them. He heard a familiar voice whisper over the crackling flames. Hide that name. Blind yourself to it and runaway. After his mother's death, Tony had become obsessed with an old sword left behind by his father. His younger self had deliriously clutched the weapon out of fear and loneliness. And eventually the sword had spoken to him. “And so I hid my name and lived as Tony Redgrave up until now,” Tony said aloud. “I deceived them, so that I could gain the power to fight them as equals.” Had the sword really talked to him? Was it a supernatural ploy by the servants of the demon king? Had they toyed with him as a child, until he was ready to play their games? (pg. 161)
as we know in DMC5, eva was supposed the one who told dante to run and change his name... or, if you don't want to consider it a retcon, it's also very possible that the trauma from his mother's death messed with him and/or his memory
by the way, this sword didn't seem to be named. it's not force edge, but it could have been an early form of rebellion:
He pulled the massive sword from its scabbard on his back. Something in the darkness made the weapon look even larger than it was. The skull design on its hilt seemed to gloat ominously. “This sword was caged, along with my real name.” Dante thought back to his father's weapon, calling out to him as a child. The pieces snapped into place. “But now he'll be released.” The sword bellowed and groaned, enlarging until it was half the size of Dante himself. The double-edged blade looked capable of cleaving a cow in two, but weighed next to nothing. (pg. 166)
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silverstream2 · 1 year
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Orders of Knights Radiant for Devil May Cry characters, because fuck it:
Honorary mention to artifabrian Nico. She'd be amazing.
-Stoneward or Willshaper Lady. Kinda leaning towards Stoneward for her, tbh. It just feels like it fits her better.
-Lightweaver Trish? Honestly not sure which Order she'd fit in, tbh, but Lightweaver is my best guess. Maybe Willshaper?
-Windrunner Nero, bless him. I feel like he could make it up to the third Ideal... I'm just not sure what that would look like for him. The two versions we've gotten were, "I will protect even those I hate, so long as [I believe it is] right" and, "I will protect even those I hate, even if the one I hate most is myself" and, (to paraphrase), "I will protect people, even if I have to protect them from myself".
But there's always room for personal variation, so... Hmmm... I'm honestly not sure.
I feel like Nero could get pretty close to the Fourth Ideal, too. But, as he himself said in DMC 5, he's never forgiven himself for failing to save Credo. I think Kaladin and being a Windrunner could probably help him with that. I mean, that's the point of being a Radiant, after all.
-Windrunner Kyrie. I just feel it in my bones. Let her be awesome, damn it. I wanna see how deeply Nero blushes when he sees his girlfriend kicking ass with Radiant abilities. Or without them! Stormfather knows, making a home feel like HOME, like a safe place, is hard enough, nevermind the work Kyrie and Nero do in canon with the orphanage for Fortuna. Let them be a wholesome power couple, damn it.
-Skybreaker Credo. Not sure how far along he'd be in his Ideals, but I feel like the Skybreakers would fit him, given how devoted Credo was to the Order of the Sword.
-Lightweaver Dante. Like, with the sheer contrast of how he is in DMC 1 and 2 compared to how he is in 3, 4, and 5, I just feel like Lightweaver fits him. Also, him being so traumatized from what happened to Eva and (he thought- until 3) Vergil that he straight up repressed his memories of being Dante and went by Tony Redgrave instead? Hoo, boy! I feel like him and Shallan would have So Much to talk about. I just worry what would happen if they ever did. Hoid, please help. Dante'll only shoot you a LITTLE BIT, I promise.
-I'm gonna go with Elsecaller Vergil. Or Dustbringer/Releaser. So far, we know frustratingly little about both of those Orders and their Oaths, but I can't see him fitting any of the others. I'd maybe go with Truthwatcher? But that's YET ANOTHER Order who's Oath we haven't learned about yet, so :/
So, Elsecaller Vergil it is, then.
I feel like if you put Vergil and Jasnah in a room together they could probably take accomplish just about anything. Which is more than a little terrifying. I also feel like they'd get along- at first- about as well as two cats that unexpectedly have to share a yard. And- and I'm sorry, Vergil, but its true- Jasnah would win. I could also see them just chilling, eventually. Platonic book buddies. They'd probably still regard one another like cats reluctantly sharing personal space, but it could be less... cold. It all just depends on the context and when and where in the story they meet.)
Vergil would probably hate Hoid, same as Dante. Hoid, I'm sorry, my dude, you just remind him too much of Jester for him to not want to stab you every time he sees you. I think Vergil would, reluctantly, be intrigued by all the secrets of the Cosmere that Hoid knows, tho. I doubt that would warm Vergil to Hoid, tho... unless Hoid really worked at it. Depends on what "face" Hoid decided to put on, I guess. I'll bet Hoid has some stories that he could tell Vergil that would help him.
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