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#exclusionists
0w0tsuki · 2 months
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If you ever find yourself mad about "trans lesbian separatism" or "baeddelism" or whatever word you've found to paint trans women having solidarity/community with each other as exclusionary, have you considered not burning every bridge you have with transfems while expecting us to be the ones to put all the effort into rebuilding them while you hold the burning torch, and maybe JUST MAYBE considered listening to us when we talk about transmisogyny and worked to making this a safer space for us.
Like I dunno I think if I had a problem where transfems deal with such scrutiny and vitriol in the queer community that trans women have their whole community ripped out from them so they seek out like-minded trans women who aren't going to abandon them the instant that associating with them would negatively affect their social credibility and I was someone invested in TransUnity™ that the solution would be to work on the transmisogyny problem to make my community a safer space so they wouldn't feel the need to do that instead what y'all are doing which is which hunting for trans women you can brand as exclusionists for the purpose of excluding them. Which you know, only makes the "trans women don't feel safe in the queer community" problem worse. This is literally yall rn
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phoenixonwheels · 7 months
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The ~discourse~ around the term cripple punk is so wild to me bcs from what I've seen the people arguing that it includes mental illnesses/disabilities are mentally ill people who are ALSO physically disabled explaining from experience that not only are mental illnesses oftentimes disabling in exactly the same way physical disabilities are, but that trying to draw a hard line between "physical" and "mental" conditions is reductive and unhelpful in terms of actually accommodating us and understanding our conditions, especially given that both have so much overlap that it's hard to distinguish what's coming from where in the first place. Like when I'm having a bad enough depressive episode I feel real, physical pain in my chest that's so bad I can hardly stand up, and the accommodations that help me when my hEDS or POTs is making it hard to stand help when it's the depression instead. And yet I'm supposed to believe these two things are completely different, 100% of the time, no exceptions?? Plus like, idk every time I see people argue that mental conditions are somehow different from physical ones it just reminds me of how often doctors will brush aside the physical symptoms of my mental illnesses bcs they're "all in my head" despite how much I'm clearly suffering. For me so much of learning to live with stuff like my bipolar and adhd is unlearning the idea that my brain is like, a separate entity from my body, and accepting that the physical stuff I'm feeling shouldn't be dismissed just bcs it's caused by my brain and not like, my POTs or hEDS. For so often I've seen positivity posts talking about how mental conditions do physically affect people and understanding and accepting that is important, it's wild to see a group that should be on top of that sort of thing fumble it so badly.
And god, so much of the world is already against disabled people, getting mad that the "wrong" disabled people are using the term cripple punk while society does everything in its power to make life impossible for us feels like we're just doing their work for them. We should stand united in our very much shared struggle instead of desperately trying to shove everyone in separate boxes and make sure they stay there, insisting that we have nothing in common and could never share a community. We have everything in common and we need to stand together, now more than ever.
All of this! And also it’s clearly never occurred to them that a huge percentage of the medical gaslighting we’ve all experienced is having doctors blow off our physical disabilities and illnesses by claiming we’re mentally ill. Gee hmm I wonder why that is? Could it be that mental illnesses and disabilities are even more discriminated against than physical illnesses and disabilities? And if we all fight together for respect and rights for people with all types of disabilities and disorders we all benefit?
This shit is absolutely wild to me. And it leads to things like people yelling at me - an actual wheelchair user who is currently mostly bedbound - that I hate cripples and am somehow trying to “steal cripple privilege” and insert myself undeservingly into “cripple spaces” because I refuse to join them in their bigotry against mentally ill and mentally disabled people.
MERDs are to the Cripple Punk and disability rights movements what TERFs are to feminism and the queer rights movement. They’re dragging us back decades.
*MERD: mental-exclusionary radical disabled
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vaspider · 2 years
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You know, normally I just block and ignore the people who do this and show up in my notifications like OP SUCKS BUT THIS LONG POST FULL OF CITATIONS HE WROTE IS FINE I GUESS or whatever but sometimes
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sometimes
when I go over to block them & save them the trouble of interacting with someone who totally sucks ever again, I'm like
damn, I'm glad you think I suck, because holy shit your opinions are terrible, please never interact with me ever again
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Hey apparently exclusionists still exist in 2024, so please remember to make liberal use of the block button because honestly fuck those people
-mod Ama
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disabledunitypunk · 5 months
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Image ID: comment reading "lunod 14h ago @smolfrenchtoast my eyeglass prescription is -6.25/-6.50 and I have 4 separate eye-related conditions besides the nearsightedness. I am aware of why people wear glasses. It doesn't make it a mobility aid and it definitely means if you're trying to call it a mobility aid that you should be educated on and participating in blind/VI community and talking about issues pertaining to them."
You don't get to decide that for the entire community. "You need to be educated on participating in blind/VI community"? So far I've read more blind and visually impaired people calling their own glasses mobility aids than I've read sighted people doing so in my entire life.
But more to the point, it was a comment on this post:
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The post reads:
"What about high support needs autistic people who use wheelchairs/have severe motor skill issues!"
What about them? Last I checked, you all treat them like shit and talk over them. Last I checked, half of you saying that kind of thing are still on your "autism actually makes me smarter and better than everyone else :)" schtick. In fact, are you normal about any and all stigmatized psychiatric conditions?
"Eyeglasses are mobility aids too, being mildly nearsighted makes you disabled"
Okay, and have you spoken At All about how people using white canes are treated or about genuinely any accessibility issue the blind/VI community faces? Have you talked about Any mobility aids, really?
"Psychiatric conditions are physical disabilities because it affects the brain"
Okay, and do you identify as physically disabled broadly or only when you're trying to be in cripplepunk? Have you aligned yourself with Any of Us beyond semantics arguing on the internet? Have you talked about any disability issues at all that aren't about your specific mental health diagnosis? How have you approached and reconciled the social, political, and legislative differences in how physically disabled people are treated versus mentally ill people?
Otherwise what it sounds like is you using other disabled people as tools and tokens in your arguments and that you don't actually give a shit about any of them.
Ah yes, the old, "you're tokenizing yourself!!1" argument. Because here's the thing: these points are primarily being made by multiply disabled people negatively affected by these things.
Let's take this point by point, shall we?
- What about them? Last I checked, you all treat them like shit and talk over them. Last I checked, half of you saying that kind of thing are still on your "autism actually makes me smarter and better than everyone else :)" schtick. In fact, are you normal about any and all stigmatized psychiatric conditions?
Okay, so platforming severely autistic voices is an ongoing issue in our community, one that a lot of us are working on addressing. Autism/aspie supremacy and ableism does exist on our communities - and is being shut DOWN to the point that even FACEBOOK GROUPS don't allow conditions as stigmatized as NPD and psychotic disorders to be used in their colloquial derogatory form of synonymized with abuse or a lack of ability to exercise autonomy.
Also, the existence of ableism against a subgroup does not mean people cannot bring up other forms of ableism against them. Not to mention this is a fucking spectrum. Quite frankly, the ONLY reason I don't consider my autism, which causes me to have middling to high support needs, a disorder, is because those needs are actively and continuously being met.
I am not severely autistic, but I am SIGNIFICANTLY autistic. I am the autistic person in between the person you're accusing me of tokenizing and the one you're accusing me of being.
-Okay, and have you spoken At All about how people using white canes are treated or about genuinely any accessibility issue the blind/VI community faces? Have you talked about Any mobility aids, really?
First of all, what about the people who aren't 'mildly nearsighted' who are saying this. What about the significantly visually impaired and even legally blind people who are saying this? What's with your assumption that everyone saying this is in fact privileged? You did that with autism too, because apparently none of the high support needs physically disabled autistics you're white knighting for are saying this too. Almost like you're not listening to them, the same thing you accuse us of doing.
What about the people who are talking about all those things? What about the blind/VI people who don't or even CAN'T use canes? What about the people who are simply focusing on a form of exclusion that harms them?
Finally:
-Okay, and do you identify as physically disabled broadly or only when you're trying to be in cripplepunk? Have you aligned yourself with Any of Us beyond semantics arguing on the internet? Have you talked about any disability issues at all that aren't about your specific mental health diagnosis? How have you approached and reconciled the social, political, and legislative differences in how physically disabled people are treated versus mentally ill people?
Yes. Fucking yes. The people screaming for cripplepunk inclusion are by and large ALL physically disabled. Most are physically disabled by primarily physical conditions, and simply have physical symptoms from their psychiatric disabilities as well. Most are screaming about disability issues, from physical accessibility to the struggles with their illnesses and injuries to being physically assaulted by strangers. We talk about legal issues from lack of regulations to archaic and inhumane regulations to "benefits" laws to eugenics movements like MAID. We talk about how we're being exterminated.
We talk about the differences in our treatment, but we also talk about how they're less than most people say they are. We talk about how when mentally ill and invisibly physically disabled people experience the same oppression, it is erased. We talk about the vectors along which neuroableism and corpoableism sometimes operate identically, and you don't like that.
We are not "aligning with Us" because we ARE us, and that's the whole point we've been making this whole time. As soon as we disagree with you, you strip our entire disabled identity from us. You call us "abled" and even "able-bodied". You accuse us of tokenizing ourselves and not giving a shit about disabled people when we're telling you WE ARE DISABLED PEOPLE AND OUR EXPERIENCES MATTER.
What was the point of this post? Quippy discourse to fulfill your internet superiority complex? Other than visual impairment, are you insane? Do you have stigmatized disabilities like NPD, ASPD, schizophrenia, and DID. Do you actually acknowledge the depth of stigma that exists for "acceptable" mental illnesses such as autism, ADHD, depression, and anxiety, and that the veneer of acceptance only holds up so long as we aren't symptomatic?
Do you identify as physically disabled outside of cripplepunk, or is this all projection? Because even if you are all these things, You're certainly tokenizing the rest of us.
If your point was "hey make sure you're not doing this because it's still harmful and ableist even when fighting for unity, inclusion, and safe spaces for neurodisabled physically disabled people" then you should have said that. A single line about "if you're not doing this, this post isn't about you" would have gone far. An additional line to the effect of "I'd like to think most people involved in the discourse are not doing this, but I've still seen too many" would have gone further.
Because unless you and I have seen completely different discourse, quite frankly, you're making up a strawman.
The people arguing for cripplepunk inclusion are physically disabled mobility users. The people calling glasses mobility aids are referring to their own glasses helping with vision so bad or comorbid with other conditions (such as ones affecting balance) they can't move through the world without them. The ones talking about people physically disabled by their autism who have high support needs are one or both.
I'll point again to the assumption in each point that the people saying this are the privileged ones within each group. "Last I checked, you all treat them like shit and talk over them." Not even an allowance that some of those people are saying this too. A mention of essentially autism supremacists, by their description of the type most of the community can't stand. No acknowledgement that autism is anything other than essentially "a socially awkward savant" or "a severely disabled person".
"mildly nearsighted". Aside from the fact that yes, this does still in fact make you disabled, and that you're allowed to talk about erasure of your own disability and fight back against it and name what category your disability aids fall into, it's literally primarily actual visually impaired and blind people having this conversation. How dare you.
(For reference for those that might not know, visual impairment is a specific term that does not cover visual disabilities that are fully corrected by use of glasses. Not sure if OP considers visual impairment to the point it cannot be fully corrected by glasses "mild" or if they're just erasing everyone in their community who disagrees with them entirely. Considering how they say that glasses are not a mobility aid, period, despite that experience not being universal and blind/VI people who do consider their glasses a mobility aid existing, I suspect the second.)
And finally, there it is. "Do you ALIGN yourself with Us." Not, are you one of us, but do you even consider yourself to be part of OUR group. Do you IDENTIFY AS one of us.
What does that mean? Is it quite literal? Are you saying 'do you consider yourself a physically disabled person in general when you say your neurodivergence physically disables you?' is it less literal, meaning 'are you physically disabled outside of your physically disabled neurodivergence?' Is it 'are you a disabled activist and have you done enough for our liberation to have a voice on our liberation?' None of those options are good.
Why does someone have to talk about other issues to talk about being physically disabled? Is someone with a primarily mobility disability only allowed to talk about it being physically disabling if they address general physical disabilities? What about someone with a chronic illness, whether gastrointestinal, cardiac, autoimmune, vascular, respiratory, limbic, endocrine, renal, multisystemic, other, or multiple of the above? What about someone with a sensory disability that affects their mobility?
Where do you draw the line?
Why do you draw a line?
Why must people do a deep dive into the plight of all disabled people to justify talking about their personal experiences with disability? Is it not enough to acknowledge and allow room for intersectionality - something this post seems to be actively pushing against?
Like, this is not helping. There are actually good, salient points that COULD have been made with some of these arguments, but none of them actually WERE.
It seems a bit like you're making up a guy to get mad at on the internet.
If you're not, perhaps you should make a post about them DOING these harmful things, and not that they also happen to be against mind body dualism (usually due to being materially harmed by it, as it is a key component of legal and medical ableism) and exclusion and gatekeeping in disabled spaces when talking about shared oppression and experiences.
Just a thought.
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girlcalledwhatsername · 9 months
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How are people being "antipsych" and then policing people about being neurodivergent in the "wrong" way? How are you being an exclusionist and fakeclaiming people when the way they experience a disorder/neurodivergence is not "correct" and then thinking of yourself in anyway as antipsych? Clearly you're still adhering to ideas of neurodivergence as something that should be pathologised as per the DSM rules, and that any other way is fake and doesn't deserve support and people don't know their own selves and identities and minds as well as the dsm or a professional or you in particular do. That's not dismantling psychiatric control. That's not dismantling psychiatric oppression. That's not dismantling the pathologised ideas of our human differences. You can't use the term "neurodivergence" to describe your experiences as and when it suits you and then kick other people out because you don't believe their experiences. You don't have to understand how someone else's mind works but you don't get to gatekeep identities and then also claim to be liberating neurodivergent and mad people. You aren't with us, you're just a fair weather friend.
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aroaceconfessions · 1 year
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I genuinely feel that putting a label on my aroace experiences growing up has helped me a lot. I have many reasons to have felt odd and different from others but growing up aroace is something different. For example, Its hard to describe and label these experiences if you don't have the vocabulary to do so. That was a big part of the whole identity exploration thing for me, this then led to finding AVEN and the aroace community here. It was a shitstorm back then for the community, there was so much hate and discourse. Oh yes, and the gatekeeping as well.
All of that aphobia and gatekeeping has made me feel excluded from the aroace community and label. And you know what? Others have been speaking about this too and I'm glad we are. I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in these feelings. Its a horrible experience to feel excluded and unwanted by your own community, especially after struggling to figure out who you are and why your life experiences seem so different than others.
Anyways, I apologize if this is very rambly. I have seen others address this and I needed to take the opportunity to voice my own struggles. Im aroace and im proud, i feel comfortable in this label and im going to use it.
Submitted February 28, 2023
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queerasf4ck · 10 months
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Someone calling you out for your biphobia isn’t homophobia. Someone calling you out for your biphobia isn’t lesbophobia. You just don’t want to own up to your shit.
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hussyknee · 9 months
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Getting the weirdest people hyperventilating in my inbox rn for saying that bi/pan lesbians aren't a threat to their lesbian identity.
Bitch I lived through pre-2019 Tumblr hell where people all but wanted to kill asexuals. Y'all having a tantrum in my asks don't even rate lmfaoo
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vigilantsycamore · 1 year
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Exclusionists have said "you're not part of our community" to basically every LGBT+ demographic except the fraction of gay people who agree with them, I think at this point they're just excluding themselves
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irrelevant-iguanadon · 3 months
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Anyways take some on topic blog banners (made in cooltext.com)
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0w0tsuki · 1 month
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Hey Ive seen Baeddel used in a lot of your posts but like,, other than a definition of the word I cant really find much on what it means like discourse-wise.
I know its something relating to transfems but other than that im lost x.x sorry for the bother
Basically it started out as an old timey slur for trans women. The word "bad" is rooted from it. In the early 2010s a group of trans women adopted the term and had a community for a very short time before it collapsed and not much information is left over.
Some say that had abusive dynamics. Some say they were just talking about transfeminism like they do now. My sibling swears up and down from their personal experiences with the initial group that they were a group of grifters using queer politics to fundraise for tumblers first big scam, The ARK(C?) Project.
A bunch of anti-transfeminists in their efforts to create the magical word that will allow them to terf-jacket trans women without having it called out as such happened upon the term and used the lack of concrete history/the fact that most of the subjective history isn't too charitable to this original group to fabricate a conspiracy theory that these original Beaddels were an evil cabal of bigoted trans women who never really went away and now operate and sow intracommunity discourse from the shadows for the explicit purpose of weakening the holy divinity of TransUnity.
And while some of them moved on to other terms like "TIRF" and "Neo Radfem" a good portion of TransUnity/Transandro anti-transfeminists have latched onto the term and have doubled down on their intent to use it to create a category of trans women that it's ok to exclude. Out of all of the anti-transfeminists that have come out of this new wave, the ones who build their politics around "Anti-Beaddelism" are some of the most mask-off exclusionists of the bunch. Like look at how they talk about Beadels
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They will list how these groups have a bunch of ties to nearly every anti-queer group they could think of. And then they warn White™(Because everytime they attack trans women they have to pretend like it's a race thing to distract from the transmisogyny) that they mean to need to maintain a sense of hypervigilance around their transfem sisters and read into every laugh, every joke, and every word for the possibility of finding Beaddel rhetoric. This is a manipulative abusive tactic to keep the transfems within their sphere of influence to reach other to other transfems and rely on TME people to tell them what's right and provide community.
I remember on sailorportia's "Anti-Egg discoursers sound just like my conversation therapist" post I saw one of these people referring to the notes section as "full of beaddel dogwhistles" and inviting people to "take a look and educate themselves". Not specifying what the dogwhistles are or how they are dogwhistles. Just vaguely gesturing at the notes section and inviting you to regard anything a vocal trans woman as a crypto-beaddel and anything they say as "beaddel dogwhistles"
These communities cultivate a sense of paranoia. They encourage constant scrutiny regarding anything a trans woman says. Their leaders sell themselves as protectors of the community whose exclusion is a necessary evil to keep online trans communities safe. They are incentivized to keep the term Beaddel definition murky but representative of all the evils they attribute to trans women.
The term in the modern day is largely prescriptive and moreso defined by the reactionary "Anti-Beadelism" movement than it is defined by its history. Only a few trans women have reclaimed the term. When anti-transfeminists talk about Beaddelism they aren't talking about an organized group or community, they are referring to a bunch of individual trans women they have branded with the beaddel slur.
Currently I don't think reclaiming the word is a good move. Not that I disagree with it or think trans women shouldn't reclaim it. It's just that it will do more harm than good for as long as exclusionists control the narrative on its definition. I've seen mutuals have their posts on general transfeminism get completely discarded out of hand because they had Beaddel in their profile name or bio.
Because like it or not the current definition of Beaddels that gets passed around was written by current ex-terfs/transandro nothorses bro and cites TERF resources in their definition. This is the same dude who's responsible for the foundation or the current TransUnity echo chamber and used the influence from creating that community to try and redefine TERF to include trans women for the purpose of TERF-jacketing.
It's why me and some other trans women have been picking up the words trasfeminism to refer to discussions of transfem issues and anti-transfeminist to refer to these new wave of transfem exclusionist. It denies the exclusionists the ability to define our politics for us to outsiders. Also note: If the term trasfeminism picks up in use your going to see a lot of these people switch from "Beaddel" to "Radical Transfeminist" as their go-to anti-transfeminist TERF-jacketing slur
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phoenixonwheels · 7 months
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When exclusionists try to take over your community you have a few options:
Join them.
Pretend it’s not happening.
Fight them.
Leave the community and let them have it.
Personally I choose to fight. Y’all will have to make your own decisions based on your energy levels, abilities and personal belief systems.
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wakewithgiggli · 1 year
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When you moan about the use of the word queer, be aware of who you are siding with:
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Yes, thats a screenshot from a TERF blog. If you needed validation of the idea that the pushback against the word queer came from transphobic exclusionists, here you are.
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strawberryoverlord · 2 years
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Honestly though why the fuck are y'all attacking other LGBTQ people? Like full offense but even if people didn't use queer, or stopped being enby, or never used micro labels cishet homophobes and transphobes still want to kill you
Y'all wanna bend over backwards to prove "lol REAL gay and trans people are respectable members of society who wear kahkis, have 2 1/2 kids, and only have sex in the missionary position, not like those nasty fake gay freaks who dye their hair and wear make up, were totally normal"
Your homophobic neighbors still want you dead buddy
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