#false equivalence

[contemplatingoutlander]

The north star here is truth. We tell the truth, even when it offends some of the people who pay us for information. [...] The facts involving Trump are crystal clear, and as news people, we cannot pretend otherwise, as unpopular as that might be with a segment of our readers. There aren’t two sides to facts. People who say the earth is flat don’t get space on our platforms. If that offends them, so be it. --Chris Quinn, Editor of cleveland.com/The Plain Dealer

THIS is the kind of attitude that journalists and editors should have regarding reporting on Trump!

Chris Quinn, the editor of cleveland.com/The Plain Dealer wrote this excellent column explaining to his readers why opinion columns on his platforms are so critical of Donald Trump. His response is a credit to his integrity as a journalist/editor, and should be emulated by others in the mainstream media. Below are some excerpts:

A more-than-occasional arrival in the email these days is a question expressed two ways, one with dripping condescension and the other with courtesy: Why don’t our opinion platforms treat Donald Trump and other politicians exactly the same way. Some phrase it differently, asking why we demean the former president’s supporters in describing his behavior as monstrous, insurrectionist and authoritarian. I feel for those who write. They believe in Trump and want their local news source to recognize what they see in him. The angry writers denounce me for ignoring what they call the Biden family crime syndicate and criminality far beyond that of Trump. They quote news sources of no credibility as proof the mainstream media ignores evidence that Biden, not Trump, is the criminal dictator. The courteous writers don’t go down that road. They politely ask how we can discount the passions and beliefs of the many people who believe in Trump. This is a tough column to write, because I don’t want to demean or insult those who write me in good faith. I’ve started it a half dozen times since November but turned to other topics each time because this needle hard to thread. No matter how I present it, I’ll offend some thoughtful, decent people. The north star here is truth. We tell the truth, even when it offends some of the people who pay us for information. The truth is that Donald Trump undermined faith in our elections in his false bid to retain the presidency. He sparked an insurrection intended to overthrow our government and keep himself in power. No president in our history has done worse. This is not subjective. We all saw it. Plenty of leaders today try to convince the masses we did not see what we saw, but our eyes don’t deceive. (If leaders began a yearslong campaign today to convince us that the Baltimore bridge did not collapse Tuesday morning, would you ever believe them?) Trust your eyes. Trump on Jan. 6 launched the most serious threat to our system of government since the Civil War. You know that. You saw it. The facts involving Trump are crystal clear, and as news people, we cannot pretend otherwise, as unpopular as that might be with a segment of our readers. There aren’t two sides to facts. People who say the earth is flat don’t get space on our platforms. If that offends them, so be it. As for those who equate Trump and Joe Biden, that’s false equivalency. Biden has done nothing remotely close to the egregious, anti-American acts of Trump. We can debate the success and mindset of our current president, as we have about most presidents in our lifetimes, but Biden was never a threat to our democracy. Trump is. He is unique among all American presidents for his efforts to keep power at any cost. Personally, I find it hard to understand how Americans who take pride in our system of government support Trump. All those soldiers who died in World War II were fighting against the kind of regime Trump wants to create on our soil. How do they not see it? [emphasis added]

I encourage you to read the entire column. It is worth it.

#trump #journalism #truth in journalism #mainstream media #false equivalence #chris quinn #cleveland.com

[fandomshatepeopleofcolor]

Sometimes, I have the dumbest White people responding to my posts...

This is literally false equivalency becos Palestinians are literally being killed and displaced by Israel? Mainly listening to their voices on their oppression by Israel is not the same as centering Israeli opinions on Palestinian sovereignty?? That's like centering White voices on racism 🤦🏻‍♀️ Also, I merely said we should be centering Palestinian voices, I didnt say we should only be listening to Palestinians. But trust that some White people don't seem to think that people of colour can be capable of nuance admidst criticism 🤷🏻‍♀️

Also, why is it weird to, in his words, center only Palestinian voices? It's not as if Palestinians are themselves a diverse community of people with a diversity of beliefs and opinions on Israel 🤷🏻‍♀️

- mod sodapop

#false equivalence

[elder-millennial-of-zion]

#antisemitism #israel #anti Israel media bias #meme #meme generator #israel hostages #hamas war crimes #false equivalence #anti Israel false equivalence

[dougielombax]

“buT NOboDy spEAks iRIsh! wE MiGht aS weLL HAve sigNs WRiTTen iN POLish! HuUuRrR DuUuRrRr!”

Oh do ever so kindly shit up and fuck off with that SHITE!

It is not an argument nor is it a refutation!

End it!

Fucking hell.

Colonial faeces!

Bumbrained fodderbeasts who are scared of the country’s native language and don’t like to be reminded that we were here long before they showed up, our presence destroying their delusions of grandeur and superiority by reminding them they hadn’t conquered fucking shit.

I’d send the fuckers away to a convent with all the other stupid geese of their generation. Forever.

In the meantime the rest of us can continue living in the 21st century trying to make the world a better place.

Bottom line. It’s a language! It never killed anybody!

Get fucking used to it!

Fucking hell.

Side Note: You’d be surprised at the sheer number of Irish folk in the republic who want the language to die too. They’d make the British SO proud. Fucking morons. Ghastly little pea brained stooges. They’re like extremely dumb children.

#dougie rambles #personal stuff #vent post #political crap #fuck loyalism #ireland #northern ireland #bilingual signage #signs #irish language #false equivalence #fucking morons #fucking hell #fuck’s sake #brainrot #brainrot in action #polish language #languages #decolonization

[palephx]

You're welcome.

#titanic #false equivalence #20000 billionaires under the sea #i want to implode #orgone snail

[tomorrowusa]

The news media notoriously engages in bothsiderism. Biden's verbal stumbles are bizarrely equated with Trump's unhinged racist and dictatorial rantings.

But even if you ignore the vile and incendiary stuff Trump says, he still beats any other president for incomprehension – including George W. Bush.

^^^ I will concede that this particular statement is at least accurate – unlike 30,000+ false assertions he made during his term. Of course Trump helped speed up those deaths by doing nothing for seven weeks from late January to early March of 2020 as the COVID-19 virus was insidiously spreading throughout the United States.

#bothsiderism #false equivalence #news media #donald trump #republicans #covid-19 #joe biden #election 2024 #dave whamond

[screamingfromuz]

Do you condemn Nelson Mandela and his attacks on white south Africans during the apartheid era?

you know what, I like Mandela and try and learn from South Africa (all my friend definatly want to steal the idea of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to be used here), so you get an answer. I will refer to the ANC in my answer (specifically uMkhonto we Sizwe), which I believe is what you are asking about.

I have read parts of the findings of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and with accordance of their findings, it's a yes. The ANC did try to uphold as much as they could of the Geneva convention which was more that the other factions did and is admirable. but I can still condemn many of the attacks targeted specifically to harm civilians and the use of torture. because you know, those are bad things.

you see, this is called having a complex opinion. I believe you can learn to hold one.

I believe you are manifesting Mandela and the ANC in order to get a gutcha moment, but I am sorry to disappoint. the first problem is that the ANC never put on their resume to eradicate white people, nor planned a massacre of civilians, all things that Hamas did (replace white with Jews). Another point is that the ANC did really care about the people it claimed to represent, while the leaders of Hamas give zero shits. They have been stealing humanitarian aid since 2007 at least.

stop insulting the ANC by using them to justify Hamas.

And regarding Mandela himself, the man had better understanding of the complexity of the situation than you. so, here you go, a wonderful piece from 1999

p.s. Mandela, a great man as he was, was not a saint. do not idolize people, it never ends well.

#ask uz #israel #palestine #antisemitism #nelson mandela #acn #false equivalence

[miramaramora]

BuT iF yOu StRiKe ThEm BaCk yOu'lL be as bAd as tHeY ArE

Shut up , that's cartoon logic , that's to prevent beloved protagonists from doing something on TV that children could immitate.

Let's discuss

Do they have the same motive ?

No,the zionists have greed , arrogance and/or cruelty as a motive . And the Palestinians have the desires to prevent their country from being usurped and to defend themselves, their lives , their bodies, their culture, their dignity!

Do they have the same level of strength and destructive potential?

No , Israel is supported by many wealthy expansionist countries that pioneer in weaponry and mass destruction , elaborate spy networks , and means if economic colonisation.

Palestine is supported by militant groups who are Palestinians , some charity organisations , other Arab individuals opting to be militants and the political recognition of some countries.

Do they use the same methods?

No they don't, Israel and zionists use their abundance in wealth to pay celebrities to support them . They target women and children so that there would be less Palestinians . They resort to torture and lie about it . They mutilate bodies, They try to stop others from speaking about it.

Palestinian miltants don't target children, they treat hostages well , they humiliate/ kill zionist soldiers who fought them ( unapologetically) without feeling the need to lie about it or falsify history. They document the casualties even on enemy side and take responsibility for the casualties caught in their crossfire. They don't resort to torture and all they diligently try to avoid weaklings being collateral damage on enemy side .

So how exactly are they similar ? The only thing they have in common is making your sheltered self uncomfy

So if you don't know which side you're on , fine

If you don't have info , or need to do more research fine

But going around equating the usurper with the resistant victim is deliberate ignorance .

#freedom fighters #hamas are freedom fighters not terrorists #free palestine #free gaza #gaza strip #gaza #israel palestine conflict #false equivalence #cartoon logic #war crimes #deliberate ignorance

[justinspoliticalcorner]

Matthew Sheffield at Flux:

Despite the evidence provided by history, polling, and daily news events, there are millions of people in the United States who actually think that Democrats are just as extreme as Republicans. In a 2022 CNN poll, 52 percent of respondents said that Democrats’ viewpoints were generally mainstream, little different from the 54 percent who said the same about Republicans. A survey also done in 2022 by CBS found that 49 percent of respondents said Democrats were “extreme,” only slightly higher than the 54 percent who said the same about Republicans.

Needless to say, thinking that Democrats are anywhere as extreme as Republicans is totally absurd. Donald Trump is the only president in American history who refused to leave office after losing a free and fair election. He frequently lavishes praise on violent January 6th rioters as “great people” with “love in their heart.” He frequently promises “vengeance” against opponents and says he will imprison and execute people who disagree with him. And it’s not just Trump. Moderate Republicans in Congress have been extinct since the Trumpist hordes eliminated the few who hadn’t been swept away during the Tea Party movement of the late 2010s. The Republican Party nationally and in a variety of states devised and executed a criminal scheme to steal the 2020 election and throw out the votes of tens of millions of Americans. The American right is also much more violent than the left. Since 1970, about 75 percent of political hate crimes are committed by right-wing extremists. Only 4 percent were committed by far-left extremists.

There are no leftist members of Congress who are anywhere as radical as Paul Gosar, the Arizona Republican who was censured for posting a stylized video of himself murdering New York Democratic Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in 2021. He and Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) attracted national controversy for speaking at a neo-Nazi political event just a few months later. There aren’t any Democratic members of Congress who have spoken at rallies of communists who advocate violence. The anecdotal evidence of individual members’ extreme views is also borne out when we examine Congress from aggregate statistical measures. Since 1992, congressional Democrats have moved slightly to the left, while Republicans have moved much further to the right.

On most specific political issues, Americans agree overwhelmingly with Democratic policies. Republicans’ desires to mandate school prayer, eliminate all abortions, ban same-sex marriages, give billionaires lower taxes, and block people from getting health care are terribly unpopular. (That Republicans enjoy majority support on other issues like the economy mostly stems from the fact that Democratic-leaning voters are more willing to criticize their own side than Republicans are.) A party with such extreme opinions shouldn’t be able to win elections anywhere outside of rural areas in the Old Confederacy. This is why lying to the public about supposed Democratic extremism is the core component of all Republican messaging. Trump uses the phrase “radical left” in every speech he delivers, and the talking point is repeated hundreds of times a day at Fox, Newsmax, OAN, Real America’s voice, and the entire gigantic propaganda apparatus of right-wing media.

But Republicans don’t just lie about the opposition, they are also constantly being deceptive about their own views. Under the watchful eyes of leaders like Mitch McConnell, they have outsourced their most unpopular policy viewpoints to unelected judges who can do things that could never get passed through legislation—like stopping student loan forgiveness or banning the sale of completely safe abortion medication. And under the new Project 2025 agenda being constructed for Trump by Christian nationalist extremists like his former budget director Russ Vought, national-level Republicans will move the remains of their policy apparatus from the Congress and into the bureaucracy, where they intend to do things like using an obscure 150-year-old law commonly referred to as the Comstock Act to criminalize abortions through agency rulings. Freed from having to advocate or legislate on their most controversial viewpoints, congressional Republicans are able to focus their public messaging exclusively on the few issues like immigration or the economy where they currently have majority support. They spend the rest of their time attacking Democrats through spurious investigations, like their endless hearings on Hunter Biden. None of these efforts ever results in substantive legislation. Senate Republicans scuttled their own immigration enforcement bill, Kentucky Rep. James Comer’s years-long impeachment investigations have turned up nothing, and House Republicans voted more than 60 times to repeal the Affordable Care Act (ACA) without bothering to offer an alternative.

[...] Abortion is far from the only issue on which radical Republicans are far out of step with the majority of Americans, and it’s unfortunate that millions of people are having to be the personal object lesson about what the far right wants to do to the rest of us. But at long last, it appears that the public is waking up to the unpleasant reality that far-right Republicans don’t believe in democracy and will do anything they can to restrict and control others. Democrats must act with great urgency to ensure that this process continues and expands by building an infrastructure to protect democracy.

Matthew Sheffield wrote in Flux that the Republicans' extreme views are being camouflaged in public by pushing the laughable assertion that the Democrats are just as extreme… except that even the leftmost Dems are nowhere near as extreme as GOPers.

#Donald Trump #Right Wing Extremism #GOP #Conservative Media Apparatus #False Equivalence

[coochiequeens]

Considering that despite all the changes to her name she never claimed to be a different person this isn't the gotcha that she or Women’s Rights News think it is.

Did she get into a huff when someone called her by her birth name after she was married? Did she get into a huff when someone called her by her married name after her divorce? Then not the same has a man pissed off about being "deadnamed".

After she married and then divorced did she try to make her old name almost impossible to find? If she ran for office could a voter look her up and see her past so they know who they are voting for? I doubt it which makes her different from trans people who are almost impossible to look into when they run for office.

#Women’s Rights News #false equivalence #Refusing to call a Steve a Stacy is not bigotry

[news4dzhozhar]

#zionism isnt Judaism #anti-Zionism isnt anti semitism #stop weaponizing words to prevent debate #words matter #apartheid #save palestine #ethnic cleansing #israel is an apartheid state #seek truth #free palestine 🇵🇸 #genocide #illegal occupation #israel is committing genocide #israeli war crimes #zionist #zionism #zionazis #zionistterror #accountability isn't antisemitism #Anti-Zionism isn't anti Judaism #zionism IS racism #united nations #most zionists are atheists #anti-Zionism and antisemitism are NOT the same thing #false equivalence #propaganda kills #israel lies while Palestine dies #repost #please share #spread awareness

[dreaminginthedeepsouth]

I trust the Guardian to illuminate what’s really happening as America faces an election in which one of the two likely candidates engaged in an attempted coup. Robert Reich: Not just the facts it conveys but also its judgment about what to convey – the stories it believes worthy of reporting, and doing it in ways that illuminate what’s really happening. That judgment is especially important as the US faces an election in 2024 in which one of the two likely candidates was engaged in an attempted coup and has given every indication of wanting to substitute neo-fascism for democracy. Again and again, the mainstream media have drawn a false equivalence between Donald Trump and Joe Biden – asserting that Biden’s political handicap is his age while Trump’s corresponding handicap is his criminal indictments.

But Trump is almost as old as Biden, and Trump’s public remarks and posts are becoming ever more unhinged – suggesting that advancing age may be a bigger problem for Trump than for Biden. The Guardian has been picking up on this, but why isn’t the mainstream media reporting on Trump’s increasing senescence? Similarly, every time the mainstream media reveal another move by the Republican Party toward authoritarianism, they point out some superfluous fault in the Democratic party in order to provide “balance”. So readers are left to assume all politics is rotten.

A recent Washington Post article was headlined: “In a swing Wisconsin county, everyone is tired of politics.” “How do Americans feel about politics?” the New York Times asked recently, answering:

“Disgust isn’t a strong enough word.”

But where is it reported that the mainstream media have contributed to making people tired and disgusted with politics? And where is it acknowledged that this helps Trump and his Republican allies? They want voters to be so turned off of politics that they’re unaware of Biden’s accomplishments, such as an economy that continues to generate a large number of new jobs, with real (adjusted for inflation) wages finally trending upward, inflation dropping and no recession in sight. Plus, billions of dollars pumped out to fix and improve the nation’s roads, ports, pipelines and internet. Hundreds of billions allocated to combat climate change. Medicare, now lowering the cost of prescription drugs. Billions in student debt canceled. Monopolies attacked. Workers’ rights to organize, defended.

#political #The Guardian #false equivalence #journalism

[furbearingbrick]

#reactionary embarassment #hall of shame #undescribed #setting aside the obvious ethical grossness you do realize that humans are not rabbits right #false equivalence #transmisogyny #cissexism

[dougielombax]

“Oh no, I don’t vote. They’re all the same you see.”

Okay then, enjoy upholding an unjust status quo and contributing to extremism with your delusional apathy.

Some of us are only trying to make things better after all!

Fucking morons!

#dougie rambles #personal stuff #vent post #political crap #leftism #anti centrist #false equivalence #voting #apathy #ignorance #and so on

[nicklloydnow]

“At this moment in history, there are people and cultures that harbor very different attitudes about violence and the value of human life. There are people and cultures that rejoice, positively rejoice—dancing in the streets rejoicing—over the massacre of innocent civilians; conversely there are people and cultures that seek to avoid killing innocent civilians, and deeply regret it when they do—and they occasionally prosecute and imprison their own soldiers when they violate this modern norm of combat.

There are people and cultures who revel in the anguish of hostages and prisoners of war—who will parade them before cheering mobs, and often allow them to be assaulted, or raped, or even murdered. They will desecrate their bodies in public, and all of this carnage is a cause for jubilation. Conversely, there are people and cultures who find such barbarism revolting—and, again, would be inclined to prosecute anyone on their own side who took part in it.

In short, there are people and cultures who revel in war crimes—and who do not hide these crimes or their celebration of them but, rather, proudly broadcast their savagery for all the world to see. Conversely, there are people and cultures who have given us the concept of a war crime as a sacred prohibition—and as a safeguard in the ongoing project of maintaining the moral progress of civilization.

(…)

Consider just one of these norms: Whenever an armed conflict breaks out, some groups will use human shields, and others will be deterred, to one degree or another, by their use. To be clear, I’m not talking about the taking of hostages from the opposing side for the purpose of using them as human shields. That is appalling, and it is now happening in Gaza, but it is separate crime. I’m talking about something far more inscrutable—it’s astounding, really, that it happens at all—I’m talking about people who will strategically put their own noncombatants, their own women and children, into the line of fire so that they can inflict further violence upon their enemies, knowing that their enemies have a more civilized moral code that will render them reluctant to shoot back, for fear of killing or maiming innocent noncombatants. If anywhere in this universe cynicism and nihilism can be found together in their most perfect forms, it is here.

Jihadists use their own people as human shields routinely. Hamas fires rockets from hospitals and mosques and schools and other sites calculated to create carnage if the Israelis return fire. There were cases in the war in Iraq where jihadists literally rested the barrels of their guns on the shoulders of children. They blew up crowds of their own children in order to kill US soldiers who were passing out candy to them. Conversely, the Israeli army routinely warns people to evacuate buildings before it bombs them.

Of course, during times of war, it common to dehumanize one’s enemy, to describe them as barbarous and evil. And it is natural for ethical and educated people to distrust such politically-charged language. But pay attention: I’m describing concrete behaviors—behaviors that occur on only one side of this conflict.

Just consider how absurd it would be to reverse the logic of human shields in this case: Imagine the Israelis using their own women and children as human shields against Hamas. Recognize how unthinkable this would be, not just for the Israelis to treat their own civilians in this way, but for them to expect that their enemies could be deterred by such a tactic, given who their enemies actually are.

(…)

Do you see what this asymmetry means? Can you see how deep it runs? Do you see what it tells you about the ethical difference between these two cultures?

There are not many bright lines that divide good and evil in our world, but this is one of them.

(…)

Simply counting the number of dead bodies is not a way of judging the moral balance here. Intentions matter. It matters what kind of world people are attempting to build. If Israel wanted to perpetrate a genocide of the Palestinians, it could do that easily, tomorrow. But that isn’t what it wants. And the truth is the Jews of Israel would live in peace with their neighbors if their neighbors weren’t in thrall to genocidal fanatics.

In the West, we have advanced to a point where the killing of noncombatants, however unavoidable it becomes once wars start, is inadvertent and unwanted and regrettable and even scandalous. Yes, there are still war crimes. And I won’t be surprised if some Israelis commit war crimes in Gaza now. But, if they do, these will be exceptions that prove the rule—which is that Israel remains a lonely outpost of civilized ethics in the absolute moral wasteland that is the Middle East.”

“Foucault wrote about how “epistemes” define the thinking for entire epochs of human thought. We are cursed to live through a “paradigm shift” where the idea of civilization, progress, culture and morality are under assault.

An “episteme” or “regime of truth” is an underlying idea that people hold that is so deeply rooted in culture that it is unconscious. Epistemes, metaphorically, are the intellectual water we swim (or think) in. Just as a fish cannot discover water, a human cannot easily distinguish the epistemes their thought is grounded in, or oriented around.

One such broadly acknowledged episteme is “progress.” For centuries. people believed that rational thought and human endeavor generally improve things over time. This episteme is thought to have developed during the early Enlightenment, when rationality started producing remarkable improvements to human life. “Progress” was so undeniable, that it soaked into our thinking at a profound (literally foundational) level, to become and episteme.

(…)

The identity-based view has really taken off. Marxism has been such a miserable failure everywhere it was embraced that it lost credibility. But an appeal to identity is an appeal to tribalism — and it turns out tribalism is baked into humans at a deep, biological level, so is more palatable even if it has not yielded very good results either.

So neo-Marxists today claim that identity differences are the main obstacle to humanistic flourishing, rather than wealth or class, and view the world through the lens of which identity groups are involved, and which is more powerful vs less powerful.

About three months ago, on October 7th, Hamas perpetrated a massive, brutal terror attack in Israel. Since then, there has been a fundamental disconnect in how people interpret the situation. The older, mainstream view is that terrorism is always wrong, but the “Oppression-oriented New Left” view is that whichever identity group is stronger within a power dynamic is always wrong.

(…)

Our system of international laws and norms has evolved to make war somewhat less terrible. While it may seem that war itself is fundamentally “uncivilized,” war with some restraints is actually as high a level of civilization as we have been able to achieve so far.

The different views on the Hamas war align with the ideological split between people who support civilization/progress and those who focus on dismantling systems of oppression.

To the oppression group, Hamas is weaker, more brown, Muslim, and “colonized.” (Colonization is a huge marker for oppression within the oppression-oriented group.)

(Most of that is not true, but that does not matter much. E.g. most Israelis are brown descendents of Arab Jews expelled in the mid 20th century from other countries in the Middle East. Israelis are also descended from a combination of indigenous, immigrant and refugee communities.)

To the civilization/progress group, not legitimizing terrorism, rape and kidnaping is critical, because it represents a hard-won international norm of how conflicts — even violent conflicts — are resolved.

(…)

Personally, I favor civilization over terrorism. I favor the idea progress over a false narrative that nothing ever improves and society must be rebuilt from the roots up on a foundation of tribalism. That idea has had only divisive and dysfunctional impact so far.

#sam harris #israel #hamas #morality #war #false equivalence #violence

[tomorrowusa]

Apparently we’re experiencing another outburst of false equivalence with a heavy dose of bothsiderism.

Of course there’s no such thing as nuance in politics — so....  😑

But Trump Republicans and their cheerleaders at News Corp. should worry about when attention shifts back to Trump shipping nuclear secrets 992 miles from the White House to his Mar-a-Lago hideaway.

#classified documents #joe biden #donald trump #false equivalence #bothsiderism #department of justice #kevin siers