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phoenix-king-ozai · 1 month

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Live footage of Azulon when the son he treats like trash and obviously wants his attention to the point he legit names his kid after him but with a more feminine sounding ending kills him after forty years of him being an awful parent: Shoced Pikachu face.

Yeah you can't tell Ozai didn't want to kill Azulon but simply never had the courage to go through with it. A part of me feels he was waiting for the bastard to kick the bucket and I'm of the opinion that outside of fear, the other reason he didn't try tripping the bastard down the stairs was because Iroh would get the throne anyway and whilst Azulon's death can be brushed off as the fucker just getting old, Iroh dying at the same time would raise red flags and it's only when Lu Ten dies and Iroh retracts his birth right does Ozai dare to even try insinuating he should get the throne.

I believe that Ozai and Azulon had a very complex, turbulent, and strained father-and-son relationship. My theory regarding Fire Lady Ilah's death is that she had complications while giving birth to Ozai and died in a traumatic childbirth scenario. Perhaps, Fire Lord Azulon desired to have another child in case of Crown Prince Iroh's death on the battlefield. Ilah probably was at the age where having another child was risky in her mid-40s or possibly infant Ozai burning Ilah alive from the inside out causing the Fire Sages to perform a bloody C-Section which led to her death due to immolation, blood loss, and overwhelming pain.

If this scenario is truly the canon case regarding Fire Lady Ilah’s death. Then I could see Fire Lord Azulon scapegoating Ozai for being the cause of Ilah’s death especially if Azulon forcibly demanded Ilah to conceive another child as a potential backup replacement heir for Iroh’s death in warfare along with the return of Sozin’s comet coming in the next half century. I can see both Azulon and a teenage Iroh resenting, neglecting, and verbally abusing Ozai during his childhood due to their beloved wife and mother dying horrifically in tremendous tormenting pain. Adult Iroh probably later resents and regrets how he and his father treated Ozai during his early formative years as a child and the negative effects it had on their relationship and Ozai’s own relationship with his own personal family with Ursa, Zuko and Azula…

However, I believe that despite the hateful resentment and negatively neglectful child abuse. Ozai during his youthful childhood and teenage years greatly appreciated, admired, and respected his father as Fire Lord and Supreme Commander of the Fire Nation Military and brother as Grand General of the Fire Nation Army. Ozai probably very much idolized and worshipped his father and brother as legendary war heroes and genius strategists who followed in his grandfather's legendary footsteps in achieving absolute victory for their homeland and people against the “barbaric snow savages” of the Water Tribes and “incompetent dirty filthy” Earth Kingdomers. Ozai probably later on during his adulthood began to resent Azulon for his maltreatment and neglect of him despite him being his ultimate idol as shown by his naming of Azula after him. Ozai also probably resents how Azulon values and has a better relationship with Iroh and Lu Ten than him due to Ilah’s death. I can definitely see Teen Ozai being fanatically loyal to Azulon just like Zuko was for Ozai due his exile.

Ozai is more ruthless, brutal, and vicious than his older brother Iroh. Iroh had taken after Ilah's influence and parenting style whereas Ozai had taken after Azulon’s influence and parenting style. Iroh probably is brainwashed and naive to believe that the Fire Nation truly cares about the prosperity of the other elemental nations whereas as Ozai is extremely realistic and pessimistic regarding the so-called “benevolent” plans for the other nations by their grandfather Sozin. Ozai probably internally realized and demoralized himself regarding the Fire Nation's true brutal, vicious, cruel, and selfish desire for imperial conquest. Which is why personality Ozai is much more strict, cold, ruthless and serious than his brother due to their different outlook on society and what it means to be a parent, warrior, and Fire Prince of the Fire Nation.

Ozai's parenting style is very authoritative, demanding, controlling, and ruthless like the Fire Nation Empire itself. Ozai most definitely inherited this style of dominating and vicious dictatorial parenting method from Azulon who inherited it from Sozin. Ozai treats his children more like soldiers and pawns for the Fire Nation's grand schemes and designs. Their happiness, wishes, and desires mean nothing to him to the cost of his family's Imperial Legacy. Ozai and Ursa used to have a happy family with Zuko and Azula, but Ozai "changed" when the children became older. I believe Ozai decided to allow Zuko and Azula to have a happy and "normal" childhood that he didn't experience as a child. However, once Ozai saw a chance in becoming Fire Lord and fulfilling Sozin's dream and legacy. Ozai gave up on the lenient and caring fatherly act because it was unnatural to him given his own personal childhood and relationship with his own father Fire Lord Azulon. Along with the fact that Ozai probably believes that with Ursa gone; he finally can stop coddling his children after their childhood has ended.

Unfortunately, Ozai cares more about the Fire Nation's imperialistic ambitions than the happiness of his wife and children. At the end of the day, Ozai doesn't understand and value the unconditional and pure love of a parent because he probably has never gotten to experience it with Fire Lord Azulon probably being resentful over Fire Lady Ilah's brutal and horrific death in childbirth!

Ozai's harshness and brutal parenting style and domineering expectations are because Ozai wants Zuko and Azula to both prove themselves. Ozai doesn't favor Zuko or Azula. It is about which child will succeed Sozin, Azulon, and his legacy as future Fire Lord. In fact, Ozai doesn't want Zuko or Azula to think that they are the “favorite” child. He wants Azula and Zuko to improve through competition. Because of the “only the greatest of pressures can forge diamonds” & “steel sharpen steel” mentality. Ozai has the mentality of an imperialist warlord. Ozai isn't trying to be the world's most loving and caring father but rather continue and build upon a powerful and dominant legacy that his forefathers had created before him. He wants Zuko & Azula to be cold, ruthless, heartless, vicious, and brutal imperialistic warmongers like him (Ozai), his father (Azulon), and his grandfather (Sozin).

#Sozin #Azulon #Ilah #Iroh #Ozai #Zuko #Azula #Fire Nation Royal Family #Fire Nation Parenting #Fire Nation Culture #Fire Nation Society #ATLA #Avatar: TLA #Avatar: The Last Airbender #Royal Fire Fam Cycle of Abuse #Fire Nation Royal Family Meta

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justanotherthrowaway1950 · 2 years

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Zuko Did the Honorable Thing by Challenging Azula to the Final Agni Kai

Lately, there seems to be a popular strain of thought in ATLA fandom that the 16 year old Zuko was dishonorable in accepting his clearly mentally unstable sister’s Agni Kai challenge for the Fire Nation throne.

Or that the 16 year old Zuko challenging the 14 year old Azula to an Agni Kai is the same as the middle aged Ozai challenging the 13 year old Zuko to an Agni Kai due to “disrespecting” him in his war council meeting.

But when you look at the complete context, not only is there no equivalence whatsoever between Ozai’s challenge and Zuko’s acceptance, but also Zuko did the honorable and most sensible thing he could have considering the circumstances.

For it is it sad that Azula’s mental state deteriorated so hard that Zuko, who she is normally superior to, believed he could take her one on one?

Yes.

It is sad that two siblings, who, despite all that happened between them, do deep down care for each other, and yet, instead of being able to resolve their issues peacefully, instead have to fight each other till one of them is dead or subdued due to being on the opposite sides of a war that started long before either of them was born?

Yes.

It is sad that Iroh said that he could not fight his younger brother because history would negatively view two siblings fighting for the throne while in the same breath sending his underage surrogate son to fight his underage niece to death?

Or that instead of subduing Azula himself with a handful of his fellow White Lotus members, Iroh instead deliberately choose to leave the fate of the Fire Nation and his remaining non-Ozai family in two teenagers' hands (Zuko and Katara) in favor of going on an ego trip liberating Ba Sing Se? Especially since TV!Iroh, even when out of shape, has hype and feats that suggest that he can easily defeat TV!Azula without hurting her or getting himself hurt?

Yes.

It is sad that Ozai, if he knew that Zuko was going to challenge his prodigy for the, as far as he knows, now worthless Fire Nation throne, would probably encourage it since in his twisted mind, either Azula gets to “redeem” herself for “failures” and for lying to his face about the Avatar’s survival, or Zuko will have done the world a favor by eliminating his “disappointing” daughter, who was not worthy of his “love” after all?

Yes.

It is sad that instead of getting a real chance to heal and atone for her actions after getting involuntarily psych warded, Azula instead got abused in her asylum to the point that her mental health further degraded, causing fans, and probably everyone in-universe outside of Zuko and Ursa after the actions she took because of said degraded mental health, to believe that she was always a psycho and/or that she had “second chance”, and yet threw it away?

Yes.

But the key point is that Azula was the agent of a genocidal, imperialist, colonizing regime, and was going to continue perpetuating violence on the world if she took the throne. Meanwhile, Zuko was an anti-imperialist seeking to take the throne so he could stop the Fire Nation’s unjust and vile war of aggression.

And that Azula, even if she was mentally stable, was not going to be peacefully persuaded that everything she had been taught was wrong. Nor was she going to be peacefully persuaded that the world would never trust her on the throne, especially when Zuko, who at the point of the Agni Kai had shown he was a committed anti-imperialist, was a viable claimant and had a close connection with the Avatar.

For while we, the audience, know that Azula does have inner conflict and wishes that there was another path to take other than the one her father set out for her, Zuko and Katara don’t know that.

But what they do know is that: Azula is the hyper-competent Fire Princess who hunted them across the Earth Kingdom; that Azula is the person who overthrew Ba Sing Se with just two friends while also managing to turn Zuko and put a lightning bolt in Aang’s back; that she helped suggest the “let’s burn the Earth Kingdom” plan, or at best suggested scorched earth tactics; that she actively encouraged the cruel treatment of prisoners of war like Suki; and that she started actively hunting them again once Team Avatar made a public reappearance on the Day of Black Sun.

And in Zuko’s case, Azula was his secondary abuser from childhood, attempted to kill him several times, and, as far as he knows, killed the love of his life after she saved him and half of Team Avatar from boiling alive in the Boiling Rock.

Also, Zuko was probably thinking ahead to when he needed to assert authority once he, Aang, and Katara successfully overthrew Ozai’s regime, and thus needed some way to legitimize his claiming of power.

For as far as the average Fire Nation citizen would be concerned, Zuko would be the traitorous crown prince who turned on his nation just when they were going to fulfill Sozin’s dream for the world in favor joining the demonic Air Nation Avatar so he could overthrow his highly regarded father and war hero sister so he could take the throne for himself.

And to make things even worse, Zuko’s only real domestic allies would be: the traitorous former Crown Prince General Iroh, the traitorous deserters Jeong Jeong, Piandao, and Chey, and the treasonous Ladies Mai and Ty Lee, if the Ladies miraculous survived being executed by Azula as far as Zuko is concerned.

So when Azula not only appears to be severely off her A-game, but also gift-wraps Zuko the means to legitimately take the throne, Zuko did what any sensible person would have done and accepted it, a choice that is vindicated by canon.

For even after Aang de-bends Ozai before allowing Zuko to jail him, and Zuko manages to involuntary psych ward Azula after winning their Agni Kai, Zuko constantly faces assassination attempts in Ozai’s name, and even an organized Ozai restoration movement in the form of the New Ozai Society, barely managing to survive all these threats to his life.

(Legacy tells us that Zuko officially won the Agni Kai even though Azula burned him, presumably because she attacked a non-duelist.)

So if Ozai, who had been defeated by a fully realized Avatar at the height of his power and spiritually mutilated as punishment for his transgressions against balance, was still was able to invoke such feelings in the Fire Nation population, imagine what would have happened if Zuko, instead of fighting Azula in an Agni Kai, instead decided to jump her in a 2 v 1 with a “snow peasant” before forcing the Fire Sages at fire and/or ice point to crown him Fire Lord?

Well, in my opinion, either Azula becomes an especially potent martyr if she dies, even compared to the scenarios where Azula dies in the Agni Kai since at least Agni Kais have the built in assumption that you are willingly risking your life by engaging in one, or, assuming that the 2 v 1 still ends with Azula alive and involuntarily psych warded instead of being killed, Zuko would have probably faced an Azula restoration movement.

And in the latter scenario, assuming that Azula manages to escape Zuko’s custody like she does in canon due to Aang's unwillingness to use energybending except as an alternative to summary execution and Zuko’s selfish desire to find Mommy at all costs, even if it means putting the post-war order in danger, instead of Azula eventually realizing that no one will support her claim to the throne, and thus her "realization" that her destiny is to “help” Zuko, Azula instead would have joined up with the movement and easily dispatched Zuko and his friends/allies before restoring the old regime en route to restarting the Hundred Year War.

And obviously Zuko wants to keep on living alongside his friends and allies so that they can, among other things, build the world of peace and love that they desire instead of the world of hatred and subjugation that the Fire Nation created during the Hundred Year War.

Not to mention, at the time of Azula’s challenge, Zuko didn’t even know that energybending was a thing, making it more crucial that he delegitimize Azula, for even if she was jailed or psych warded, if she managed to escape his custody, she could easily train to surpass him once again before attempting to violently overthrow him.

And before you call this fear unfounded, Azula did canonically manage to surpass Zuko again post-Sozin Comet, and has attempted, and is still attempting to, overthrow Zuko, either by outright overthrowing him, or by turning him into her puppet.

But to wrap things up, while it is tragic that that the Final Agni Kai had to happen, that Azula never got the help she needed after loosing, and that the Agni Kai is used to demonize Azula, the fact is that considering what Azula was fighting for, and the fact that Zuko needed all the help in legitimize his rule while also delegitimizing his main probable rival claimant and her potential to be a potent martyr if he did end up having to kill her, Zuko did the honorable and sensible thing by accepting Azula’s Agni Kai challenge.

#azula #zuko #fire siblings #post war fire siblings #fire nation #fire nation royal family #atla #atla comics #fire siblings meta #post war fire siblings meta #fire nation meta #fire nation royal family meta #atla meta #atla comics meta #azula is a victim and victimizer #azula is a colonizing imperialist #justanotherthrowaway1950meta

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fantastic-nonsense · 1 month

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wonder how much chaos I would cause if I wrote a meta on how Bryke deliberately used family systems theory to parallel Zuko and Azula with Iroh and Ozai and do a "same story, different ending" narrative

#(edit: this post now comes with a short version of aforementioned meta in the reblogs. check the notes)#atla #atla meta #(sort of)#zuko #azula #uncle iroh #firelord ozai #fire nation royal family

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five-flavor-soup · 1 month

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I personally think that basing your interpretation of how Ursa treated Azula on Zuko’s memories shown in ‘Zuko Alone’ is kind… incorrect. You can obviously — they’re the only real images of their childhood we get in the cartoon, other than the tiniest of snapshots in sepia — and that’s fine, but for me personally I just don’t think they’re complete enough.

These memories are from Zuko’s perspective. Not Ursa’s, not Azula’s, not Ozai’s or Iroh’s—Zuko’s perspective, his memories. And they’re all about him and Ursa together: every one of these memories have Ursa at their centre. We see her protect him and be kind to him, see her be physically affectionate and gentle, see her encourage him to be kind to himself and to Azula.

They essentially tell us that Zuko is Ursa’s son first, Ozai’s son second. Ozai remains a hovering, intimidating shadow on the sidelines (we still don’t see his face, we don’t see him genuinely interact with his children, and we see him irritating his father while being a very hands-off kinda dad himself) but Ursa is fully present. And ‘Zuko Alone’ is about Zuko trying to figure out who he is: the memories show that he views being his mother’s son as an exceptionally important part of his identity, which means they are about Zuko and his relationship with Ursa alone.

They are not supposed to tell us that Ursa neglected or abused Azula emotionally—that she only focused on protecting Zuko, while leaving Azula to suffer in Ozai’s incapable hands. Sure, we see Ursa scold Zuko for acting like Azula and cuddle him right after, and we see her scold Azula for acting mean and not cuddle her right after, but the key differences here are that Zuko shows guilt after frightening the turtleducks and Azula doubles down on trying to scare Zuko. The behaviour is different and will be, by any halfway decent parent, treated differently.

I’m absolutely not saying that Azula wasn’t abused, because she 100% was. She was absolutely abused by Ozai, and I’m not ruling out that Ursa didn’t have a hand in how Azula ultimately turned out. But my point here is: these memories are far too limited and narrow for the viewer to properly determine whether Azula was treated incorrectly by Ursa.

Zuko isn’t going to remember an intimate, lovely moment between Ursa and Azula when all that’s on his mind is his identity, and how it’s entangled with his mother and what she may have sacrificed for him. Additionally, he’s not particularly fond of Azula at this moment in the show (she did kind of kickstart his being a refugee, disregarding how the audience sees this sequence of events having begun), so he’s not going to remember her fondly either. Why would Zuko try to remember Ursa’s relationship with Azula at that point, instead of his own?

(Small tidbit: we also... don't know if Ursa's last words to Azula were 'what is wrong with that child', disregarding the comics which completely ruin azula anyway. Again, the memories are from Zuko's perspective and therefore won't show any private moments between Ursa and Azula. We're not even certain whether Azulon actually ordered Ozai to kill Zuko, or if that is simply what Azula interpreted it as/thought would be funny to say--causing the sequence of events that ultimately put Ozai on the throne. But whatever)

#fact of the matter is #based on the text itself the 'bad mom ursa' trope is iffy at best and completely unfounded at worst #ozai is VERY MUCH the aggressor of the family here #and ursa (in punishing her children for behaviour ozai would encourage) is trying to undermine him #scolding your kid for being mean isn't abuse actually. that's just parenting #ursa #azula #zuko #ozai #atla #avatar the last airbender #atla meta #azula meta #zuko alone #fire nation royal family #abuse mention

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descendant-of-truth · 4 months

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I never really thought about this until now, but. why did Aang never express any opinions on Azula whatsoever after she literally killed him

Like, am I supposed to believe that he's not deeply afraid of her after that? Or at least angry? She left a scar on his back that interrupts his culturally significant tattoos, and we just... never see him notice or care about that??

I'm currently about halfway through Book 3 on my rewatch, and the fact that nobody's even told Aang on-screen that Azula was responsible for what happened is more than a little absurd. I'm pretty sure they acknowledge it at some point, but in some kind of offhanded way that really doesn't do the matter justice.

It honestly feels like the show didn't want to touch that plot point with a ten foot pole, only mentioning it when it was absolutely necessary to further the plot on Zuko's side of things. Which is weird! Why kill your protagonist on-screen, leave him with two permanent scars when he's revived, and then never have him confront or even talk about the person who killed him again???

Aang deserved to have a significant dynamic with Azula after what happened at the Crystal Catacombs and the fact that they dropped the topic almost entirely two episodes later lowkey fills me with rage

#avatar the last airbender #atla #aang #azula #analysis #meta #Not sure if this really counts as an analysis but I'm tagging it anyway #Also by 'two episodes later' I mean the second episode of Book 3 #Can you imagine it?? the intrigue?? the parallels with Zuko over being scarred by the Fire Nation royal family???#If the Netflix version gets this far and keeps the same plot point at the end of Book 2 #then this is absolutely what I want them to expand upon afterwards

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phoukanamedpookie · 1 year

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Galaxy Brain take: Zuko projects his anger at Ursa onto Azula.

When I think about his resentment of her compared to the actual things she did to him that fall within the normal range of bratty little sister behavior, an Ursa-shaped hole popped up.

Then it suddenly made sense. If Zuko relates to Azula more as his surrogate mother than as his sister, his resentment toward her makes more sense.

Look at what Azula does. She comforts him when he doubts himself in "The Crossroads of Destiny." She freely offers him advice when he needs or demands it in "The Headband," "The Avatar and the Fire Lord," and "Nightmares and Daydreams." She seeks him out to take him away from the "depressing" house in "The Beach" and helped him work through his anger at himself too.

From the moment Zuko returned to the Fire Nation, Azula has, in her own words, been looking out for him. Zuko seems to lean on her a lot too, relying on her in ways he doesn't acknowledge and probably doesn't know.

Let me lay out a scenario.

After Ursa left, Zuko still needed a primary caregiver. Even then, Zuko was aware that seeking that from Ozai was a no-go. But who else does he have? It's just him and Azula. Azula, who's so smart and strong and capable and also invested in his well-being.

Yet there's still anger and sadness too big for him to understand and process at the time. He "can't" be mad at Mom for "abandoning" him. His loving mother is "good," and leaving him would be "bad." Azula is "supposed" to take care of him, but Azula fails at being Ursa. So for that, she's "bad," and everything that happens to him is all her fault.

Zuko doesn't relate to Azula the way a big brother does his little sister (see Sokka and Katara for a more typical example). He relates to Azula the way a disappointed child relates to the mother who failed him.

Before anyone gets it twisted, I'm not saying that Zuko deliberately put that expectation on Azula. When Ursa left, he was a child dealing with a situation and feelings too big and complex for him to understand. Putting everything he wanted from Ursa onto Azula is just how he, as a child, would have coped. It's not his fault that he needed his mom. He was a child. It's not Azula's fault that she couldn't be his mom. She was a child herself, and younger one at that.

If there is fault to lay at Zuko's feet, it's continuing to do this after he's old enough to realize that putting that expectation onto his younger sibling is inappropriate, especially when he has a more fitting adult in his life who is willing and able to provide the guidance, nurturing, and affection he needs. But old habits die hard.

It's just tragic all the way around.

#azula #azula meta #fire hazards #fire nation siblings #fire nation royal family

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azulas-daddy-kink · 27 days

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When I say Azula wasn't born evil...

...and explain my reasoning, I am often met with "all of your arguments could apply to Ozai, too!" as if it's some kind of "gotcha!" when.... yes.

I have no doubt that Ozai was once an abused child as well. An abused child who deserved better.

Literally no one just emerges from the womb that way, every modern psychiatrist ever would agree with me.

Ozai is a product of his environment every bit as much as Azula is.

Imperialism, abuse, neglect, lack of unconditional love, no real boundaries, and worst of all fucking AZULON as a father.

It really does not take a genius to figure out that the Fire Nation royal family is just one big abuse cycle, perpetuated generation after generation.

And yes, there is a part of me who feels bad for Ozai, too. He never had a chance to be better, to know love, friendship, trust, safety and security, the beauty of being kind to others. It's a very tragic story. A father passing on the hurts and horrors of his own past to his wife and children.

Understanding and acknowledging this IS NOT excusing it.

To this day, it continually baffles and frustrates me that people deny one of the core tenets of the show: Absolutely no one is "born bad". We are all capable of great good and great evil.

#atla #meta #fire nation royal family #azula #ozai

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peony-pearl · 1 year

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June was the only woman older than Katara and Suki to show up and help the Gaang in the finale and I think that’s ridiculous. We could have seen Yagoda and the Herbalist in the White Lotus (and Miyuki!! She has a cute miniature lotus collar). Perhaps even Haru’s mom showing up somewhere?? IDK the lack of older ladies as respected guides and teachers is irksome and until further notice I’m headcanoning out of spite that they were there we just didn’t see their scenes but they were there dammit

#atla meta #look I love the old men #they are such blorbos #but Yagoda and Hama as teachers?#they really got the short end of the stick #Yagoda gets forgotten even when Katara becomes a successful healer bc Katara didn't want to go to her class therefore the class sucked #which is ass #and then Hama was a victim of the Fire Nation who began harming citizens and forced Katara to learn a perverse sub-bending ability #don't get me wrong I love the ideas for bloodbending especially the thought of it as a medical aid but the way it was introduced #and forcing Katara to learn it the way she did was traumatic to her #We get barely any lady teachers older than the girls in the Gaang and that's really sad #and this sort of ties into Ursa's lack of complete character and the lack of guiding maternal figures #and how there's hardly any mention of the wives and mothers in the FN royal family and their characters #whoops I'm starting to ramble

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proudfreakmetarusonniku · 2 months

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also like, iroh phrases it in a mean way (which like fair he did nearly just die he’s not a perfect person he is mean sometimes like everyone) he is correct on the azula thing. azula is severely mentally ill and a danger to those around her and herself. she needs help, but help can’t be hit by enabling her and playing into her warped idea of love and family. she does need to be stopped- not just for everyone else, but for her. she's not inherently a bad person, she’s a child, but she won’t ever choose to become a better person in the enviroment she’s in because she’s been raised to think she’s the best. she chooses to commit horrible acts and must take accountability for that, but she is also a victim who needs help and is clearly not mentally well. she can become a better person, anyone can if they choose to- look at iroh himself, he's trying to make amends for the harm he’s done, and he has done a lot of harm. but azula can’t make that choice as long as she's still having her harmful behaviour validated. the best way for zuko to not only heal but also actually help his sister is to oppose her, because her actions are not only abhorrent and cruel, but hurting herself. that is far more compassionate at this point than reinforcing in her that she should be just like her abusive father else she's worthless and unlovable.

#I learnt there was an atla meta tag but I’m not sure if this should go here?#I am crazy about the fire nation royal family though #you will get meta about them and you’ll like it.#atla liveblog

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number1villainstan · 1 year

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A Rant on "Azulon wanted to test Ozai"

There's a common headcanon in the Avatar: the Last Airbender fandom that states that Azulon told Ozai to kill Zuko because he wanted to test him, and that the 'right' answer would be to refuse. Usually this headcanon is held by people who view Ozai as the incarnation of all evil and want to convince themselves that Azulon is good because he treated Iroh, saint of all saints, well. In other words, usually people who have this headcanon don't understand any of these characters (Ozai, Iroh, or Azulon) beyond a surface level.

But. Let's look at this headcanon. Let's look at what it really means.

I see three separate (reasonable) ways to respond to Azulon's implied/hypothetical demand that Ozai kill Zuko (it's not actually outright stated in-show). First, that Ozai says he will kill Zuko and actually kills Zuko; second, that Ozai says he will not kill Zuko and doesn't kill Zuko; third, that Ozai says he will kill Zuko but does not actually kill Zuko. (The fourth option, that Ozai says he will not kill Zuko and then does kill Zuko, would have no actual rationale behind it.) However, only whether Ozai says he will kill Zuko or not, or how he reacts immediately to Azulon's demand, is our concern here. So what's the right answer for Ozai, to agree to kill Zuko or to refuse?

If Ozai agrees to kill Zuko, and it was a test of family loyalty--which is ridiculous, they're royalty in the middle of a war, backstabbing is an inherent part of royalty especially for a violent nation that builds itself on pride and greed--then he will have failed the test, and Azulon would likely be able to use that against him politically, publicly humiliating him. In addition, it isn't a good test of family loyalty, because the duty of the father is (hypothetically) to protect the child, but the duty of the son is to obey his father, so Ozai could argue that he didn't betray his familial duty, just that he chose his duty as the son of the Fire Lord and his loyalty to his nation over his duty to his son. Unfortunately, it's not likely that the type of father that would test his child like that would listen to his arguing, so Ozai gets punished anyways.

If Ozai refuses to kill Zuko, against the Fire Lord's direct wishes, that's treason--Ozai could face the death penalty for refusing, and Azulon has already implied from this order, if you accept that it happens, that he's willing to risk or throw away the lives of his family. And if Ozai says he will do it and then doesn't, either hiding Zuko or staging an failed assassination, and Azulon finds out, he could be charged for treason and killed.

So what's the right answer here?

There is none.

This request, this 'test,' is a horrible catch-22. If you headcanon this, then you have to accept that Azulon is the type of father that would play favorites (Iroh doesn't get this treatment) and treat his own child horribly. And what's the crime that 99.9% of the fandom hates Ozai's guts for? That's right, playing favorites and treating his own child horribly.

Whichever way you slice it, the Fire Nation royal family's generational trauma runs deep.

#discourse #atla #avatar: the last airbender #atla ozai #atla azulon #fire lord ozai #fire lord azulon #fire fam #fire nation royal family #atla meta #salt

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prodogg · 1 year

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My thoughts about the whole Zuko & Azula plot in „the awakening“:

So, Azula took Zuko with her back to the fire nation where they received a heroes welcome, then Zuko anxiously waited to meet his father, then Azula comes and questions him about the possibility of Aang surviving, Zuko hesitated to answer and rather badly lied in her face upon which Azula gets suspicious, she then meets her dad and tells him Zuko killed Aang, to use him as fall guy should anything really be a problem with Aang‘s death. Now you see Zuko lied to Azula because of the water and also because he doesn’t trust Azula for good reasons, when looking back at beginning of the Book 2 and the whole „father wants you back“ chaos, where Azula lied to Zuko. I think this also shows the tragic aspect of their sibling relationship, they where so far from each other that they couldn’t even trust each other. Now there are some gaps left by the show which had to be filled by myself e.g when Azula met with her dad or if she reported to him back in Ba Sing Se. I saw some takes that required Azula to be some 4d chess mind reader that could look into the future and also takes away her confidence in her own abilities, like lightning bending, which is imo ridiculous. Anyways these were my thoughts about the whole Zuko and Azula tension in „the awakening“. Btw Zuko not closing the door is like one of the most annoying sibling moments to happen.

Also if you bad mouth one of the siblings I hope your sleeves touch the water and get wet when washing your hands. These two will also come after you:

*cough* Anyways here a sweet moment of the fire hazards together:

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phoenix-king-ozai · 2 months

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The avatar fandom when Iroh has committed war crimes and likely was just like Ozai but less outwardly unpleasant until Lu Ten got bodied: I don't see it.

Bro if there was an Iroh prequel it'd be ugly as hell.

Crown Fire Prince Iroh systemically starved Ba Sing Se for nearly two years straight non-stop while slaughtering Earth Kingdom soldiers trying to defend and protect their wives, children, family and fellow citizens from the ruthless, brutal and cruel invading Fire Nation army to protect and defend Ba Sing Se.

I’m pretty sure Iroh during his prime years such as during his thirties and before Lu Ten was born was pretty ruthless and savagely competent as Grand General in the Fire Nation’s Army. My headcanon is that Iroh and Ozai have a fifteen year age gap difference. Meaning that in canon at the end of ATLA, Ozai is forty-five then Iroh has to be sixty. When Iroh was thirty during his prime years, Ozai was a fifteen-year-old teenager.

I think both Iroh and Ozai were viciously ruthless commanders and fighters on the battlefield during Fire Lord Azulon’s reign. However, Ozai probably was far more crueler, aggressive, and merciless than his older brother and more like their father Fire Lord Azulon instead. This ruthlessness, brutality, and aggression is what fire nation imperialism and aggressive firebending is based on and what Ozai wants Zuko to inherit and embody as his son and Crown Prince.

This is because in my headcanon Fire Lady Ilah has a much more kinder, gentler, compassionate, and sympathetic personality than her husband Fire Lord Azulon toward other nations suffering in the Hundred Year War due to her having more of a spiritual connection and having her life saved and spared by a Earth Kingdom Princess. This challenged her Fire Supremacist views of people from the Earth Kingdom and other nations made her contextualize their pain and suffering from nearly a century of nonstop war and violence.

Despite both Ilah and Iroh still being staunch imperialists. Ilah made sure to teach Iroh the values of compassion, mercy, and kindness. These values weren't taught and passed down to Azulon and Ozai in comparison. Nor have Azulon or Ozai ever had their Fire Supremacist views challenge and are heavily impacted by decades of propaganda and hatred created by Fire Lord Sozin.

Another headcanon theory of mine is that Fire Lady Ilah died in childbirth while giving birth to Fire Prince Ozai. Iroh was a fifteen-year-old teenager at the time as well. Fire Lord Azulon probably wanted a second child in case of Crown Fire Prince Iroh's possible death on the battlefield along with the return of Sozin’s comet nearly fifty years in the future. However, Ilah probably was in her forties and childbirth was more risky. My dark headcanon is that Baby Ozai burned his mother Ilah from the inside out and the Fire Sages had to perform a lethal C-section on the dying Fire Lady. Fire Lord Azulon loathes his second-born son for being the cause of his beloved wife’s death but this is a coping mechanism due to the fact that Azulon pushed and forced Ilah to have another child.

This is the main reason Ozai is more ruthless, brutal, and vicious than his older brother Iroh. Iroh had and took after Ilah's influence and parenting style whereas Ozai had and took after Azulon’s influence and parenting style. Iroh probably is brainwashed and naivete to believe that the Fire Nation truly cares about the prosperity of the other elemental nations whereas as Ozai is extremely realistic and pessimistic regarding the so-called “benevolent” plans for the other nations.

A good comparison between Iroh and Ozai would be Bjorn and Ivar from the Vikings series. Along with the immorality standards of the German Wehrmacht soldiers and SS-loyal nazi soldiers that are completely brainwashed by the ideology of nazism and imperialism.

#atla #sozin #ilah #azulon #iroh #ozai #avatar the last airbender #avatar #atla meta #fire nation royal family #fire family #fire fam #fire nation royal family meta #ozai meta #iroh meta

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justanotherthrowaway1950 · 2 years

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Why It Made Sense for the Dai LI to Follow Azula

One of the major complaints that fans often have about ATLA is the fact that the Dai Li decided to follow Azula, a 14 year old girl whose only allies at the time where her two non-bending friends, when logically they should have either continued to stay loyal to Long Feng or try to ingrain themselves with Kuei while also staying loyal to their country.

But I think if we look past the surface facts and omniscient third person viewpoint that we, the viewers, have, the Dai Li definitely made the right decision to betray their country, their king, and Long Feng in favor of Azula.

For what probably happened was that the Dai Li had long realized that it was a matter of time before the Fire Nation took over Ba Sing Se considering it got breached three times in less than five years: Iroh’s siege, The Drill, and the Dangerous Ladies pretending to be the Kyoshi Warriors.

Not to mention Sozin’s Comet was coming, and so it was likely Ozai, who is just as cruel and evil as Sozin, would have used it to burn down the largest remaining resisting nation.

And combined with the fact that Kuei, with the support of the Gaang, had just started to take back power, they had five options: (1) continue to support Long Feng and attempt to put him on the throne; (2) support the Gaang’s invasion plan before either getting stripped of their power or facing jail time for their crimes; (3) support the Gaang’s invasion plan, and, in the event that the Gaang’s plan fails, watch the Earth Kingdom get burned to the ground by the Fire Nation while they probably get tortured for going against the Fire Princess at a key moment; (4) attempt to jail the Dangerous Ladies and use them as hostages or brainwash them and have them infiltrate the Fire Nation; (5) or join Azula and get to keep power by virtue of being her right-hand goons.

In regards to option 1, even if they manage to eliminate Kuei and the Gaang, or at least make them accept Long Feng as ruler, which is a tall task considering the Gaang’s revulsion towards the Dai Li’s mass mind rape campaign, their combat prowess, and the fact that Long Feng murdered Jet in front of them, Long Feng has no legitimacy, nor will he ever be able to gain it.

For Long Feng is heavily implied to have come from a commoner’s bloodline, and thus can’t appeal to tradition, or the mandate of heaven/the divine right to rule, like Kuei and Azula can, no one outside of the Dai Li or Ba Sing Se’s insular elite knows him, and he lacks popular support due to his relative anonymity, something that will get compounded once his crimes become public knowledge thanks to the Gaang if the Dai Li don’t manage to kill all of them quickly.

Thus, the Earth Kingdom is liable to break out into civil war, and thus become easy pickings for the Fire Nation, with all of them getting tortured for going against the Fire Princess in a key moment.

For even though the circumstances were different, the moment the Earth Queen Hou-Ting was assassinated by the Red Lotus, the Earth Kingdom devolved into a state of anarchy that only ended when Kuvira and her men forcibly brought the warlords and roving bands violently to heel while also using their advanced technology and wealth of resources to provide aid to struggling Earth Kingdomers, thereby gaining their support.

And clearly, Long Feng and Dai Li are incapable of replicating Kuvira’s cult of personality and don’t have access to advanced technology or the resources necessary to bring everyone in the Earth Kingdom under their heel, peacefully or violently.

For if they could, wouldn’t they have already installed Long Feng on the throne and won the Hundred Year War already?

In regards to option 2, even if they rejected both Long Feng and Azula and helped the Gaang successful implement Sokka’s invasion plan, therefore bringing the Hundred Year War to a relatively peaceful end, do you really think that they thought that they would have been able to keep operating as the nigh-all-powerful spy network that they had become under Long Feng and/or that they would have not faced punishment for their myriad of vile crimes?

Or do you think they thought that even if they helped the invasion plan go through smoothly they would have been stripped of their power and/or severely punished?

Especially since Kuei had expressed anger for essentially being lied to his entire life by the Dai Li, and the fact that the Gaang has a reputation of being literal social justice warriors?

(Any spy network worth their salt would have found out about the Gaang’s adventures and good deeds.)

In regards to option 3, even though Sokka’s plan seemed fool-proof, there was always the chance that it could fail.

For even if they managed to get to the palace unimpeded, what is not to say that Ozai wouldn’t have used one of his numerous hidden tunnels/rooms/passages to hide until his firebending returned, or that one of guards in Caldera City after seeing the invasion force wouldn’t have been able to send a messenger hawk to Ozai that would reach him well before the invasion force did (did you see how fast those guards who saw Aang and his arrows during The Beach were able to send a messenger hawk, and how fast said hawk was traveling?), and thus prompt him to hide till his bending returned?

(Any component spy network would realize that any well designed palace would have numerous, quickly accessible hiding spots only known to the royals living in it in the case that the royals needed to hide from any domestic or foreign attackers.)

For I know this is years later, but despite having fully realized Aang and Toph at various times at the palace, there are still numerous hidden tunnels, rooms, and passages that Zuko and his guards are not aware of, with the only real plausible explanations, in my opinion, being that they didn’t think to use their seismic senses to map out the passages and tunnels because they forgot, or because they are unable to.

Therefore, if Aang and Toph behave like the older canon counterparts do, and the Dai Li have no evidence to support the idea that Aang and Toph would not make mistakes in the heat of battle when they have to choose who to follow, it is very easy to see the invasion force not being able to find Ozai before the eclipse ends, and thus they all get slaughtered unless Aang has mastered the Avatar State by that point.

For Ozai is likely able to kill Aang before his reflexive Avatar State kicks in thanks to his quick charge lightning.

Not to mention the Dai Li, at the moment they had to choose between Long Feng, Azula, and Kuei, had no idea that Aang could master the Avatar State like that.

And before someone tries to argue that the invasion force in this timeline would be a lot bigger, and thus it would be impossible for the force to lose once they get inside the palace, I don’t think that would be the case considering the Earth Kingdom has such poor logistics that, despite their larger amount of resources and people, they were losing to an increasingly overspread invading force.

Also, if the invasion force was large enough, the Fire Nation would have seen the suspect naval movements, and therefore would have likely beefed up their security to the point that it would have been hard to send in large amounts of troops to Caldera City, even with their secret weapon, the submarines, being unknown to the Fire Nation.

Not to mention they would not have enough waterbenders to pilot enough submarines to carry all the troops considering the small size of the Foggy Swamp Tribe, and the fact that Sokka did not think his father would be able to convince the Northern Water Tribe to help in the canon timeline, despite Sokka’s invasion plan being the best shot pre-Sozin’s Comet at ending the war .

(The above has to be the explanation of why Sokka didn’t ask for any Northern Water Tribe waterbenders to help the invasion, or else why would Sokka half-ass what is the most important thing he will ever do in his life as far as he knows?)

Thus, either they die in the failed invasion, or, if they live and/or where back home, they can do nothing as the Fire Nation probably uses Sozin Comet to end the war while also retaliating against the Earth Kingdom for supporting the invasion.

And in the very small likelihood they survive all of that, they probably end up getting tortured (ex. being sent to the Boiling Rock) for daring to go against the Fire Nation when they, in the form of its Princess, offered the Dai Li a chance to peacefully join them and their goal of spreading “propensity”.

And before anyone says torture is not Ozai or Azula’s style, Ozai disfigured his own son and had a policy of putting enemy POWs in Fire Nation armor while having them fight in the front lines.

Meanwhile, while this does take place after the coup, Azula made it a point in Suki Alone to taunt Suki about the conditions she would face in the Boiling Rock in an effort to break her. And it would not be crazy to assume that Suki was not the first person Azula personally sent to prison to break considering the active and trusted role Azula had in her father’s regime.

(I personally don’t think Azula's mission to capture Zuko and Iroh was the first time her father trusted her with an important task related to ruling, but that is not the focus of this post).

So the Dai Li would not be wrong in assuming that Ozai and/or Azula would be willing to torture them if they defied the Fire Nation and got their hands on the Dai Li afterwards.

In regards to option 4, while it would be more politically expedient to take down the Dangerous Ladies and use them, especially Princess Azula, as a bargaining chip to sue for peace against the Fire Nation, or brainwash them and turn them into sleeper agents, that only works if you can capture them in the first place.

And that is not really possible considering how Mai and Ty Lee are platoon busters (ex. how easily they took out Terra Team) and Azula is implied to be vastly above the two in terms of combat prowess, meaning that any attempt to capture the Dangerous Ladies would end poorly for the Dai Li.

Also, even in the very unlikely event that they managed to capture the Dangerous Ladies, what would make the Dai Li think that Ozai would care, or, if they brainwashed them and sent them to Fire Nation, he would not kill them all for failing him?

For any component spy network would have found out that Ozai burned and disinherited his loyal son because of Zuko’s “weakness”, or that Ozai has a history of banishing those who fail him (ex. Vachir), so why would Ozai act any differently towards the Dangerous Ladies considering in this timeline they failed to capture Zuko, Iroh, or any Gaang member on top of their failure to protect The Drill, and then ghosting him for a long time due to being mind raped by the Dai Li?

“But what about the Gaang? Or Zuko? Weren’t they able to fight the Dangerous Ladies to a standstill at various times during Season 2?”

Yeah, but doesn’t change my conclusion because Season 2 Gaang are casual platoon busters as well considering how easily they fought through the Earth Kingdom Royal Palace’s defenses, and how Aang was able to take out at least a dozen Fire Nation ships filled with soldiers despite only knowing air and waterbending during The Siege of The North. And in regards to Zuko, he was able to take on a group of professional soldiers almost entirely with just his swords despite starving during Zuko Alone, and yet he is vastly below Azula for most of S2.

And before someone tries to say that the Gaang or the Dangerous Ladies are not meant to be platoon busters, consider the facts that: Rebound!Mai was able to solo a New Ozai hideout with Tom Tom strapped on her back without getting any massive power increases or undergoing heavy training; Azula most likely killed or knocked out everyone in her asylum when she broke the Fire Warriors out; and the fact that Azula fodderized Mai in Smoke & Shadow despite Azula noticing that Mai’s knife throwing skills have gotten better.

So it seems pretty clear that the Dai Li would never been able to take the Dangerous Ladies, and even when Azula finds herself alone with the Dai Li, like when Long Feng tried to have her arrested, it is clear that Azula could have killed them all if came down it, something that must been painfully clear to the Dai Li.

“But Iroh surrendered during the climax of The Crossroads of Destiny.”

He clearly wasn’t exerting himself and probably did not want to kill Zuko, or even Azula (Iroh could have killed Azula several times beforehand but didn’t), since they would have probably fought him to the death as far as he knew. Hence, why he only fought to ensure that Katara got away with Aang’s body so Azula couldn’t double tap, and why he surrendered once that objective was achieved.

Besides, if he really wanted to fight, how come he didn’t use his advanced techniques like breathing fire or shooting quick charge lightning, both of which he used earlier during the day when he and Zuko were escaping from the Dai Li?

So that leaves us with option 5 being the only acceptable option to the Dai Li considering the circumstances and their knowledge at the time.

For the Dai Li is first and foremost a spy bureaucracy with no sense of honor, no fucks about their nation or fellow citizens, and a laser minded focus on keeping their privileges and power. And just before Azula’s coup, it looked like they were going to lose everything that mattered to them.

For a giant ass drill shows up a few days ago and almost penetrates their once thought to be impenetrable walls for the second time in five years; Omashu, one of the last remaining strongholds, is taken like less than a month ago with barely any resistance; and the Avatar not only exposed their mass mind raping campaign, but also is empowering their puppet ruler to actively cut off the strings for good.

Yet, when everything seems lost, not only is the Fire Princess out and about in their city, but also generously offers them to join her with no requirements other than helping her take over Ba Sing Se, and thus end the Hundred Year War with as little bloodshed as possible.

And while Azula’s offer might seem too good to be true, you have to put yourself in the Dai Li’s shoes and remember that the Dai Li are in on the big lie.

For they know about the war, about how the Fire Nation has taken over huge sections of the Earth Kingdom, and how it is only a matter of time before the Fire Nation takes over Ba Sing Se if they don’t use Sozin’s Comet to burn it to the ground in a show of force.

Thus, if the predominant, genocidal superpower of world says that they can avoid getting the shit kicked out of them like literally everyone else in their country, you can see why the Dai Li think it is a no brainer to take the offer.

Especially when by swearing allegiance to the heir, or future puppet master depending if Zuko ever “redeemed” himself, of the most powerful royal family on the planet with an established cult legitimizing their rule (ex. Azula’s “divine right to rule” comment, or how the Fire Nation indoctrinates it citizens, especially young kids, to view the Fire Lord as an infallible figure), they not only get more power over Ba Sing Se due to becoming Princess Azula’s right-hand henchmen, which becomes true since while Azula appoints a Joo Dee to be Supreme Bureaucratic Administrator of Ba Sing Se, the Dai Li control the Joo Dees, but also don’t have to deal with any pesky legitimacy issues that would arise if they tried to assert power directly, or by backing Long Feng.

Thus, the Dai Li made the best decision in regards to their self interest that they could have.

In fact, the only reason why it didn’t completely work out in their favor in the long run was because they probably didn’t expect there to be such strong resistance even after Ba Sing Se fell and Aang was presumed to be dead, or that Azula and Ozai would be so cracked as to genocide their own lands despite the massive loss of life and environmental damage that would ensure.

And of course, no one could have predicted Azula’s Sozin’s Comet meltdown, or the events leading up to it, that ended with them being banished from the Fire Nation.

For example, could anyone other than Iroh predict Zuko turning traitor, or that Mai and Ty Lee would commit high treason in such a fashion that it triggered the onset of Azula’s childhood schizo-??? disorder?

So to sum up, if we take a moment to analyze the situation from the Dai Li’s POV when Long Feng commanded them to arrest Azula, it is easy to understand why they chose Azula since it was the only way they could remain in control of Ba Sing Se.

For if you think about it, the only thing the Dai Li care about is control and power.

And who better to give it to them than Princess Azula, the personification of the Dai Li’s ideals as far as they know?

#azula #zuko #mai #ty lee #the gaang #dangerous ladies #ozai #iroh #long feng #dai li #fire nation royal family #earth kingdom #fire nation #dai li meta #fire nation royal family meta #earth kingdom meta #fire nation meta #justanotherthrowaway1950meta

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