#for context we’re watching The Untamed | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

canary3d-obsessed · 4 years

Text

Restless Rewatch: The Untamed, Episode 01

(Masterpost) (Next Episode)

Warning: This is **FULL **of spoilers, not just for this episode but for the entire series. If you haven’t finished all 50 episodes, please don’t read it!

Intro: 2020 continues to be much much too much while also being incredibly boring, and Im done with Shen Wei’s Lewks, so now I’m doing a deep meta dive into the Untamed. Let’s roll!

Prologue: The Battle of Mordor

The Demise of our Protagonist

Unlike some other shows I won’t name, The Untamed kills its suicidal queer protagonist immediately, rather than waiting four seasons, so we know what we're in for.

This is Wei Wuxian, who is about to yeet himself off of a cliff. He is having a bad day.

Note: if mouth blood bothers you...C-Drama might not be your thing.

Reasons for mouth blood: a sampler

Anyway...cliff time

Note: if (fictional) suicide bothers you...C-Drama might not be your thing.

To be fair there are hardly any suicides in The Untamed. No more than ...five? As long as you don’t count the entire population of the Wen Corporate Headquarters in Yiling or those wall bandits in Qinghe or Madame Yu or all those Wens who supposedly threw themselves into the mud puddle or that Mo guy who broke his own neck. Plus watching Wei Wuxian’s cliff drop several more times from multiple angles. So, you know. Hardly Any Suicides.

This is Lan Wangji, who is about to have his first losing encounter with physics. He is having a bad day.

In fact, if it is possible to have a worse day than the guy who is currently falling to his death, Lan Wangji is having that.

This is Jiang Cheng, who is feeling extra stabby from this camera angle. He is having a bad day.

Camera operator: why you gotta take it out on me?

(Much, much more after the cut!)

The Amulet Situation

This is the Stygian Tiger Amulet. Yes, by all means, (Netflix) subtitles, let's use a 12-dollar word, “Stygian,” that every English speaker who is not a Shelley/Byron shipper will have to look up. Let’s not use a normal word like "deathly" or "corrupt" or you know... "Yin" which is clearly what they are saying on screen.

Why does this tiger amulet look like a chameleon crossed with a remora? Wei Wuxian can paint photorealistic bunnies on a flimsy lantern while sitting in a field having distracting teenage lust, but two months of meditating with super magic gets him a tiger that looks like a chameleon. And don’t try telling me this is a traditional-Chinese-art vibe because this jade tiger from frickin 1000 BCE is way more tigerish than Wei Wuxian’s attempt.

Try harder next time, Wei Wuxian.

This is thousands of cultivators having a battle. What do you mean, it looks like about 40-60 dudes?

Any time someone in The Untamed refers to a number of people, it is like when you do your high school play and look off into the wings at nothing and say “Hark, A Ship Approaches!” and everyone’s parents nod indulgently.

Jin Clan Mountain Hunt:

*viewership nods indulgently*

This is Captain Blowhard, over on the right, courtesy name Clan Leader Yao. His job is to talk smack about Wei Wuxian and stick up for whoever is the biggest asshole in any given scene.

He represents mainstream cultivation-world values so here he is shanking one of his allies to take the deadly amulet of evilness.

The Present Day

Spilling All That Yiling Laozu Tea

Down at the Exposition Tea Shop, the Lan juniors are chilling and listening to Tea Dude tell the story of Yiling Laozu.

How did they get permission to take this field trip? “Principal Qiran, we want to go downtown to hang out with the local rabble and learn about your favorite person, Wei Wuxian.”

Waiting in the wings is the man with a fan and a plan, Nie Huaisan(g), who is paying tall loot to get these stories told.

...Why? Is Mo Xuanyu having tea here and listening? Or is Wei Wuxian being summoned back by hearing all this smack being talked about him? *Shrug.*

Gank Your Soul

Drunk flag guy out here talking about spirits. Wikipedia tells me that In one school of Daoist thought, a human being has a collection of physical souls (魄 pò) and ethereal souls (魂 hún). Drunk flag guy is saying “hún ” at the moment.

The many types of souls don’t translate well into English, where spiritual vocabulary has always been shackled connected to Christian beliefs, and is too limited for this context. So when the subtitles have conversations like “Is it a soul eater? No, no, it’s a spirit taker!” just roll with it. (Speaking of hún, if you have any interest in linguistics, do yourself a favor and go read all the wonderful meta @hunxi-guilai)

The spirit-carrying flag looks a lot like Raava and Vaatu from Korra which...probably doesn’t mean anything.

The Demise of our Trill Host

Suicide #2 happens about 8 minutes in.

Mo Xuanyu is that hippie roommate with the annoying wind chimes and bead curtains and blood spatter.

He is super mad at his terrible family and also at Jin Guangyao, who sent him home to his terrible family. I wonder if Fan Man Nie Huaisang influenced Jiggy’s decision-making there. Mo Xuanyu’s choice to die for revenge might be excessive, given how easy it actually is to murder the Mo family.

Being Alive Is Fine I Guess As Long As I Get To Fuck WIth People

Wei Wuxian starts his new life by splashing a little water on his face, which instantly makes his hair go from this

to this.

He looks at his reflection and wishes he was dead, which--mood--but he gets over it as soon as he finds someone whose day he can fuck up.

And he is ALL in on being crazy.

OP wishes she had the Wei Wuxian kind of crazy instead of the kind she actually has.

Meanwhile, this is the sane Mo cousin:

This asshole is wearing one of the best fabrics in the whole show, incidentally. Asshole.

My favorite bit of Wei-Mo craziness is when Wei Wuxian does a meaningless 360 all the way around this dude before ducking in the opposite direction, which is like when I make 4 right turns around a whole block to avoid making a single left across traffic.

Perhaps I Do Miss One Thing In This Life

Wei Wuxian has pining thoughts about Lan Wangji, so he plays WangXian on a fucking blade of grass well enough for Sizhui to recognize it from his dad's guqin jams.

Wei Wuxian is a better flautist than even Inspector Gadget BeatBoxing Flute Guy (Google it).

Our Many Many Spirit Lure Flags have Lured A Spirit, Oh Shit

Lan Clan has a Plan and Wei Wuxian is a Fan

Having one single lure flag stuck in Wen Ning’s torso caused spirits to basically eat him alive, so to catch one evil spirit, 6 disciples holding flags on the roof plus 8 more flags on the ground seems like a good amount. Wei Wuxian is like “yep, a single one of these will lure every spirit for five miles, carry on, younglings.”

Baxia Does the Heavy Lifting

Wei Wuxian is supposed to kill four people because of this curse situation, and in the course of the series they all die, and he kills exactly zero of them. The curse on Wei Wuxian’s arm should be called the scorekeeper curse.

Baxia’s spirit pinballs around the Mo clan, rapidly killing three people on Mo Xuanyu’s list plus a couple extras for good measure. Who's a good blade? Baxia is! Yess you are! Yes you are!

This here is the exact point in the show where your friend, who has listened to you squee about The Untamed for three months and finally agreed to watch it with you, will say “what the fuck am I watching?” and try to get up off the couch. Tackle them!

This also the point where we all realize that the prosthetic and practical effects in this show were probably not made by the people who made the clothing, because the quality is...variable. The white eyeballs are pretty good, but the glove of death is ridiculous.

Camera operator: why you gotta take it out on me?

While Baxia goes to town on the Mo clan, the Lan Clan babies...watch? And tie up the various victims after they are already goners.

Narrator: Her son is dead.

Meanwhile,

Wei Wuxian, you motherfucker. You’ve been alive for like 7 hours and you’re already building a new zombie army. No wonder you don’t want them to call Lan Wangji.

Hanguang-Jun Cut It Up One Time

Lan Wangji shows up and very slowly kicks zombie ass with his guqin. If you are used to Hong Kong action speeds, you will find The Untamed very peaceful.

All of the baby Lans fan squee up at Lan Wangji like he's the cultivation world's David Bowie and...they're not wrong. Jesus Fuck, he’s charismatic.

Lan Wangji is soft boi when he discovers this murderous sword full of dead-bastard energy, because it reminds him of his true love.

Like the talk about souls, the conversations about the nature of the murderous entity really don’t survive translation into English.

Servant: it’s a ghost!

WWX: it’s not a ghost, it’s a spirit

Babies: It’s a spirit

LWJ: it’s not a spirit, it’s a [...] ghost

Our Protagonist gets the FOH

Wei Wuxian is soft boi when he sees Lan Wangji, but not so soft that he considers actually, like, sticking around.

Wei Wuxian is also clueless boi, noting Lan Wangji’s white clothing and thinking, as in the past, that he looks like he’s dressed in mourning. The term he uses is 戴孝, which google tells me means the type of outfit worn by Jiang Yanli after Wen Ning rips her husband’s heart out someone who is in mourning.

Actually, Wei Wuxian, you dumbass, he is in actual mourning, actually, for you. Dumbass. He probably packed away all of his blue outer robes 16 years ago and only takes them out occasionally to reminisce about that nice date you had on your mountain of corpses.

On his way out the door Wei Wuxian manages to find a red ribbon for his beautiful hair, so things are looking up.

Where to go next...hey I know, how about that one haunted mountain with the killer statue, you know, the one that all my executed friends and child came from? That’ll be fun and a great way to put the past behind me!

Episode 02 Restless Rewatch is here!

#fytheuntamed #the untamed spoilers #the untamed gifs #the untamed #restless rewatch the untamed #tw: blood #tw: suicide #chen qing ling #cql #c-drama #bl drama #canary3d-original #the untamed memes #my gifs

858 notes · View notes

olderthannetfic · 3 years

Note

It's really surprising that you're so well versed in older fandoms and yet participate in new popular ones (that cdrama, kpop) is this by design? Im in my twenties and my interest turnover is already way slower than it used to be

You know, that’s a really interesting question. I wouldn’t say it’s by design exactly in that I do tend to just follow what strikes my fancy, and I can’t force myself to want to write fic for just anything. (I find it easier to like reading fic without serious involuntary emotional investment, but writing takes more. Vidding I can do on command most of the time, but I don’t usually bother unless I have a lot of feels or I’m fulfilling someone’s prompt.)

However, me getting into BTS was 100% due to me wanting to understand BTS enough to explain to people who weren’t very interested but wanted to know what was going on in fandom lately. Under normal circumstances, I run the dance party at Escapade, the oldest extant slash con. We borrowed vividcon’s thing of playing fanvids on the wall--all of them set to dance music--as the soundtrack for the dance party. This means I’m creating a 3-hour mixtape of fannishness, which has amazing potential to make people feel in the know about Fandom Today... and equal potential to make them feel alienated if nothing they care about shows up. Only about 100-150 people attend the con, so it really is possible to make a playlist that feels inclusive yet informative--it just takes a huge amount of work.

Every year, I do a lot of research on which fandoms are getting big and look for vids from vidders people won’t have heard of, so there is an element of consciously trying to keep up with things. Generally, I only get into these fandoms myself if I had no idea what they were and then suddenly, oops, they’re my kryptonite, like the buddy cop android plot in Detroit: Become Human, which sucked me in hard for like 6 months on the basis of a vid.

(So if you’re into cross-fandom meta and associated stuff as one of your fannish interests, you tend to have broader knowledge of different fandoms, old and new, than if you’re just looking for the next place you’ll read fic. It’s also easier to love vids for unfamiliar things than fic.)

But though I was only looking for a basic primer on BTS, BTS has 7 members with multiple names and no clear juggernaut pairing, not to mention that AU that runs through the music videos and lots of other context to explain. The barrier to understanding WTF was going on at all was high enough that to know enough to explain, I had to be thoroughly exposed... And once I was over that hurdle, oops, I had a fandom.

In terms of old vs. new, here’s the thing: kpop fandoms in English and c-drama fandoms in English right now feel a lot like anime fandom in English did in the early 00s. I had a Buddy Cops of the 70s phase in the middle, but my current fannishness is actually a return to my older fannishness in many ways.

What do I mean about them being similar?

Yes, I know some wanker will show up to say I think China, Korea, and Japan are indistinguishable, but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the way that I used to routinely meet Italian and French and German fans, Argentinian and Mexican, Malaysian and Indonesian and Filipino too. English-language fandom of SPN or MCU may have all those fans from all those countries, but it feels very American most of the time. English-language fandom of a non-English-language canon is more overtly about using English as a lingua franca.

It also tends to attract people who as a sideline to their fannishness are getting into language learning and translation, which are my other passion in life after fanworks fandom. (I speak only English and Spanish and a bit of Japanese, but I’ve studied German, French, Russian, Mandarin, Old English, and now Korean.)

Nerds arguing about methods of language learning and which textbooks are good and why is my jam. This is all over the place in English-language fandoms of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean media. Those fandoms also tend to be full of speakers coming from a Germanic or Romance languages background who face similar hurdles in learning these languages. (In other words, if you’re a native Japanese speaker trying to learn Korean, the parts that will be hard for you are different than if you’re an English speaker, but you’re also usually not doing fandom in English.)

There’s also an element of scarcity and difficulty of access and a communal attempt to construct a canon (in the other sense) of stuff from that country that pertains to one’s fannishness. So, for example, a primer explaining the genre of xianxia is highly relevant to being a n00b Untamed fan, but just any old thing about China is not. A c-drama adapted from a danmei webnovel is perhaps part of the new pantheon of Chinese shit we’re all getting into, but just any old drama from decades ago is probably not... unless it’s a genre precursor to something else we care about. Another aspect here is that while Stuff I Can Access As A N00b Who Doesn’t Speak The Language may be relatively scarce, there’s a vast, vast wealth of stuff that exists.

This is what it felt like to be an anime fan in the US in 2000. As translation got more commercial and more crappy series were licensed and dumped onto an already glutted market, the vibe changed. No longer were fans desperately trying to learn enough of the language to translate or spending their time cataloguing what existed or making fanworks about a show they stuck with for a bit: the overall community focus turned to an endless race of consumption to keep up with all of the latest releases. That’s a perfectly valid way of being fannish, but if I wanted that, I’d binge US television 24/7.

Anime fandom got bigger, but what I liked about anime fandom in English died, and I moved on. (Okay, I first moved on to Onmyouji, which is a live action Japanese thing, but still.)

Hardcore weeaboos and now fans of Chinese and Korean stuff don’t stop at language: people get excited about cooking, my other other great passion. Times a thousand if the canon is something like The Sleuth of the Ming Dynasty, which is full of loving shots of food preparation. People get excited about history! Mandarin and Japanese may share almost nothing in terms of grammar or phonology, but all of East Asia has influence from specific Chinese power centers historically, and there are commonalities to historical architecture and clothing that I love.

I fell out of love with the popular anime art styles as they changed, and I’m not that into animation in general these days. (I still own a shitton of manga in art styles I like, like Okano Reiko’s Onmyouji series.) I’ve become a filmmaker over the last decade, and I’m very excited about beautiful cinematography and editing. With one thing and another, I’m probably not going to get back into anime fandom, but it’s lovely to revisit the cultural aspects I enjoyed about it via live-action media.

BTS surprised me too, to be honest. I really dislike that early 90s R&B ballad style that infests idol music (not just Korean--believe me, I resisted many rounds of “But Johnny’s Entertainment though!” back in the day). While I like some of the dance pop, I just don’t care. But OH NO, BTS turn out to be massive conscious hip hop fanboys, and their music sounds different. I have some tl;dr about my reactions in the meta I wrote about one of my fanvids, which you can find on Dreamwidth here.

But back to your comment about turnover: I know fans from the 70s who’ve had one great fannish love and that’s it and more who were like that but eventually moved on to a second or third. They’re... really fannishly monogamous in a way I find hard to comprehend. It was the norm long ago, but even by the 90s when far more people were getting into fandom, it was seen as a little weird. By now, with exponentially more people in fandom, it’s almost unheard of. I think those fans still exist, even as new people joining, but we don’t notice them. They were always rare, but in the past, only people like that had the stamina to get over the barriers to entry and actually become the people who made zines or were willing to be visibly into fanfic in eras when that was seen as really weird. On top of that, there’s an element of me, us, judging the past by what’s left: only people with an intense and often single passion are visible because other people either drifted away or have seamlessly disappeared into some modern fandom. They don’t say they’re 80 or 60 or 40 instead of 20, so nobody knows.

In general, I’m a small fandoms and rare ships person. My brain will do its best to thwart me by liking whatever has no fic even in a big fic fandom... (Except BTS because there is literally fic for any combination of them, like even more than for the likes of MCU. Wow. Best fandom evar!) So I have an incentive to not get complacent and just stick with one fandom because I would very soon have no ability to be in fandom at all.

My appetite for Consuming All The Things has slowed way down, but it also goes in waves, and a lot of what I’m consuming is what I did back in 2000: journal articles and the limited range of English-language books on the history of m/m sex and romance in East Asia. It’s not so much that I have a million fandoms as that I’m watching a few shows as an expression of my interest in East Asian costume dramas and East Asian history generally.

I do like to sit with one thing and experience it deeply rather than moving on quickly, but the surface expression of this has changed depending on whether I’m more into writing fic or more into doing research or something else.

But yes, I do do a certain amount of trying to stay current, often as a part of research for fandom meta or to help other people know what’s going on. Having a sense of what’s big doesn’t automatically mean getting into all those things, but I think some fans who are older-in-fandom and/or older-in-years stop being open to even hearing what’s new. And if you’ve never heard of it, you’ll never know if you might have liked it.

#fandom meta #fandom history #Anonymous

55 notes · View notes

maria-k-alberto-redux · 3 years

Link

Signal boosting, because the deadline is just 4 weeks away..

Seeking book chapters on The Untamed!

My co-editor and I are putting together a book of scholarly essays on The Untamed. We’re particularly looking for proposals in these areas:

Genre, Adaptation, Authorship (danmei, xianxia, xiuzhen, Jinjiang & its readers, and more!)

Production, Promotion, Distribution (how the show was made, what was made, where people watched)

Circulation, Reception, Fandom (in global, transcultural, or specific contexts)

Sociocultural & Political Perspectives

See our call for papers HERE for the full list, and please know we are also open to topics not listed here, too!! Right now (until Jan. 15), we are looking for abstracts (300-500 word proposals for chapters). Authors will be notified by February, and first chapter drafts of ~6k will be due Sept. 2021. We are open to proposals from grad students, ECRs, industry writers, and fans/meta-writers.

If you have ANY questions, please feel free to reach out to me here or [email protected]!!

#the untamed #chen qing ling #mo dao su zhi #cql #mdzs #cql meta #mdzs meta #the untamed cfp

111 notes · View notes

wangxiandecoded · 4 years

Text

Episode 1

Next Episode →

(Spoilers for basically the whole show ahead!)

Me : I like watching The Untamed for the fantasy period drama plot of the show!!!

The Plot™️ of the Show :

First Sight of Wangxian

What a tragic and iconic introduction of the main couple : Tbh this is when I knew this show was ride or die for me, I couldn't get myself to care about the over-the-top stunts or graphics that might bother some people. It made me gasp like, "a guy just went over the cliff and another guy came flying to catch him. MAGNIFIQUE! Never done before! I need MORE of this content!!!!"

And the first word Wei Ying says on the show : Lan Zhan.

Wei Ying Remembers

The poetic cinema that is Wei Ying recognizing the Lan clan's crest in Sizhui's robes, the flood of memories starring Lan Zhan coming back to him as he falls to the ground with the sad version of WuJi playing over a flashback of the first time he ever saw him... it really be like that sometimes. (And he doesn't even know who this sweet, kind boy is yet! Add this to Lan Zhan naming Sizhui thus with his name literally meaning “to recollect and to long for”, so his existence is like a token of remembrance bringing Wangxian’s story full circle. All of this in the first few moments of the show. AAAAH!) Hang in there, Wei Ying.

Sizhui Recognizes The Melody™️

Sizhui recognizes the tune of WuJi (ok obviously he's their son, if his dads played it while missing each other, he's going to remember it!) and we can guess Lan Zhan probably played it in the 16 years Wei Ying was gone or Wei Ying played it in his time away from Lan Zhan when A-Yuan was still a baby. In a lot of ways, this song represents the whole show and their relationship, and it makes me weep every time I hear it.

Chén Qíng Lìng

I thought it's pretty amazing the show in Chinese is titled after the flute that belongs to the "mad defector, Yiling Patriarch", but how fucking beautifully and gloriously ironic is it that the melody Wei Ying played most often on his flute is not one that drove people mad with dark magic but the love song founded on his relationship with Lan Zhan, and composed by Lan Zhan? I think that's a great metaphor for those who romanticize the idea of “the grandmaster of demonic cultivation” and are too blind to see the heart of this story.

Wei Ying Gay Panicking and Lan Zhan Still Waiting & Hoping

That feeling when you’re gay panicking about potentially meeting the love of your life who doesn't know you’re back from the dead after 16 years because you need several eons of preparation to see him again. My heart aches for Wei Ying, and more still for Lan Zhan who never stopped looking for him or hoping he could be alive. Never seen two bigger idiots who are so meant for each other.

Wei Ying’s First Glance of Lan Zhan In 16 Years

I absolutely positively cannot stand to look at Wei Ying here. Nope. The amount of fondness radiating from his face can fuel a billion stars and invent love. I'm pretty sure it did. Also - that's what you think after seeing him for the first time since resurrection? Wei Ying, you are truly a hopeless fool in love. But you’re not wrong, he’s been mourning you.

The Arrival of The Most Romantic Hero Ever

I also love the epic Hero Entry and build-up they gave for Lan Zhan’s official introduction. Give me that cheesy trope in historical gay context! Heck yeah! Our beloved hero has arrived with pomp and ceremony to sweep the other hero off his feet, even if Wei Ying practically flees. It’s ok Lan Zhan, fate will lead you to him soon.

Wangxian’s Immortal Abode

Have you noticed the one scene that is never missing from the opening and especially end credits? As if to foreshadow a happy ending for them. You can't convince me this isn't what awaits you at the gates of heaven. Just Wangxian enjoying eternal domestic bliss, always atop the waterfalls at the Cloud Recesses, the sound of guqin and flute always echoing together, two husbands upholding justice and staying by the other's side forever. Like they always have, will be and should be.

The One Who Knew Nothing

The first time I watched this show, the plot went over my head and I paid no attention to Nie Huaisang except to think he was funny. (Hey come on, Wangxian is the only plot we all know.) And to think he is the mastermind who orchestrated everything.. mad respect for you my dude.. I’ve never been so blindsided by a character before.

To summarise, Episode 1 introduces (in a time jump) the two heroes who will go on to share an epic journey and fall in love. We see hints of their past and how much they’ve missed each other. We’re shown just enough to be left wondering what happened between them and what went wrong.

#cqlepisodes #wangxian #cqlrewatch #lan zhan #wei ying #lan wangji #wei wuxian #cql #the untamed #cql spoilers #cql episodes #cql rewatch #wangxian analysis #the untamed analysis

178 notes · View notes

neuxue · 3 years

Note

will you read the novel after your liveblog of the untamed? not for another liveblog or anything although if you wanted to it'd be welcome, but to know how the story was originally told. it's my favourite iteration, the first i encountered and i think the show robbed wwx of much of his morally gray areas, and added to jgy's in between a simplification of the resentful cultivation, which has nothing to do with the wen sect or their dominance over other sects, between other cuestionable decision

To answer your question: yes, I do plan to read the novel! Haven’t yet decided how to do so but that’s a logistics question for future me.

But... okay, this is probably going to sound like me being a stick in the mud, but I’d appreciate the chance to form my own opinions around the novel and/vs the show. I don’t mean this in a ‘no spoilers’ way, because watching the show already makes that kind of pointless, and I’m not going to go out of my way to avoid learning about the differences.

But there’s a point at which enthusiastic recommendation or pointing out some of those differences starts to feel like pressure to share an opinion I haven’t had the opportunity to form, or to dislike or disparage something I know I enjoy in favour of something I haven’t yet had a chance to.

Some of this is just me being allergic to anything that feels like a zero-sum game in some of these contexts (see: my itchiness around ‘Character A is better than Character B’ arguments), and some of it is probably me just being petty in response to feeling like I’m being told what to think, but it can sometimes put me off something, and I’d rather not approach the novel from that mindset.

And I appreciate that this absolutely comes from a place of enthusiasm! I also completely understand preferring one version of a story over another, or being frustrated with an adaptation, because lord knows that’s happened to me before. And I definitely get the frustration with censorship, because yeah, it sucks, and I’m super interested to see what the story looks like when it doesn’t have to navigate that in the same way.

(Slight tangent but I do think CQL actually does a pretty good job of working with/around those limits not just in regards to the romance but also to things like conveying a greater level of grey morality than it can explicitly show; there’s a lot in the way certain things are framed or emphasised/de-emphasised, or parallels that are drawn, that feel like the same kind of ‘we can’t say this outright but we’re going to imply it as strongly as possible’ as the way the romance is conveyed, but... an essay for another time, probably after I read the novel because who knows, I could be wrong)

Anyway, my point is mostly that I’ve loved watching the show, and hopefully I’ll also love reading the novel, and maybe I’ll come out of that with a preference or maybe I won’t, but I don’t think the two need to be mutually exclusive and I don’t want to approach it like a competition.

#ugh sorry this sounds really grumpy #i'm really not annoyed at you anon i promise!#and i'm excited to read the novel!#i just... want to head off this kind of conversation #especially before i've read it #asks #anon #lskerjslkres do not want this in Actual Tags #long post #ish

26 notes · View notes

letteredlettered · 3 years

Note

hi! ive been following your writing for a few years now and i drop by periodically to check if you have anything new posted, and im really surprised that you seem to be enjoying the untamed? im curious what you think about the show - its story and characters, the acting, the production, etc. idk if you know, but the untamed is the most successful example of a current trend in chinese entertainment, where popular online novels centered around a gay romance is adapted into a 'safe' drama.

continued:

due to the many explicit and implicit restrictions imposed on creative media in china, many crucial plot points have to be changed (often badly) or removed, including the nature of the relationship between the main characters. the untamed is considered the most loyal adaptation so far, but like all other works in the genre, it received criticism for weak acting and queerbaiting. that's why im really curious about what you think of the show as it is, as itself, free from its context.

if you're interested, you could also check out guardian! it features much better performance and chemistry by the leads imo, but the story was heavily botched bc the original incorporates and reinvents a lot of classic chinese folklore beautifully and stuff like that is considered disrespectful and not-pc. i think it's really sad how so many great pieces of writing with complex world-building and plotlines are simplified into... idek what to call them, but just, less than what they are.

im sorry this turned into a rant. as a mainland chinese person with oh so many frustrations about our current society, it's hard to comprehensively describe my feelings about the untamed's popularity. it's the first mainland chinese show/movie to gain this much organic interest abroad so i should be glad? but, but. anyway, yes, im sorry.

There’s no need to apologize for ranting, but I admit to some confusion as to whether you want your question addressed or the rant. Because I’m me and tend to be thorough, I’ll address everything, in reverse order.

First of all, I’m sorry that this show is sad to you. I’m sorry that the popularity of it is difficult. I’m also deeply sympathetic to your frustrations about your society, as I too am deeply frustrated by my own.

Secondly, yes, I’m aware of the context of The Untamed. I’m aware that the book it’s based on is a BL novel, and that, in order to align with Chinese politics, overt queerness was erased from the adaptation. I’m aware of the censure laws of gay media in China. I’m also aware that some aspects of necromancy and morality were adjusted to make the show more palatable for general audiences, but I’m fuzzier on those details. Lastly, I’m aware that the popularity of the show calls attention to certain things, such as fanfic, and that attention results in more censorship,

The fact of this erasure and this censure provokes a lot of questions: by consuming this product, which contains erasure and censure, do we engage in the erasure and censure? By posting gifs and writing fanfic and talking about this product, do we increase its popularity, thereby encouraging additional erasure and censure? By increasing the popularity of this product, do we diminish the popularity of the original gay morally gray canon, thereby decreasing representation? Do we discourage other authors in China from writing explicitly gay morally gray material? In short, are we allowed to enjoy this media?

I don’t know the answer to these questions. However, I do know that boycott is a very effective tool when it can inflict economic pain on the producer, or when it can exert pressure on an entity to change. That said, I feel like a lot of the calls to boycott certain media these days are a lot like telling people to stop driving their cars to stop climate change: it’s suggesting that individuals can solve the problem, which presupposes individuals are the problem, and therefore fails to address the scope of the problem, or present the possibility of a real solution. Not watching The Untamed isn’t going to change laws about portrayals of homosexuality onscreen in China, partly because the laws in China are a much bigger problem.

The other part of it is that The Untamed is coded queer, so if you run a successful boycott against it, you end up with . . . less queer TV. I know a whole lot less about China than I do about the Hays Code, but if you had told gay people during the Golden Age of Hollywood that they couldn’t enjoy movies that were coded queer because they weren’t explicitly queer, they’d have said you were crazy. In fact, many people will tell you that media that was coded queer was a big reason we got more explicit queer stuff later. And as I’m sure you’re aware, the US is still fighting that battle . . . partly because it wants to sell movies to China.

So then there’s a question about whether me, an American in the US, liking something coded queer from China but not explicitly queer--does that encourage Chinese censorship? Should I only support texts that are explicitly queer? But the answer is the same--it’s not addressing the scope of the problem, and by supporting texts that are coded queer, you could be paving the way in the future for something brighter.

But you weren’t talking about boycott! You were talking about your discomfort with the popularity with this show, which I accept. I understand feeling uncomfortable. I can only hope it makes you a bit more comfortable to know that plenty of fans are deeply aware of the context and do wrestle with the question of what liking this show means in the context of a society that would never allow aspects of the original to be portrayed onscreen.

Thirdly, I’m not against trying Guardian at some point, but by comparing the acting and chemistry of the leads to The Untamed, I feel like you prove our tastes are very different in these regards. I love the acting of the leads in The Untamed; I found their chemistry off the charts. It’s okay you don’t feel the same.

Lastly, you asked my opinion of The Untamed: its story and characters, the acting, the production, sans context of the canon upon which its based and censorship laws in China.

a. I love the overall story, but the plot has deep plot holes. Quite a few segments do not actually make sense to me, because the plot is so haywire. However, I’ve never cared that much about plot, except when it gets in the way of characters and themes, and for the most part, this plot serves its characters and themes, except when the parts they leave out are so confusing that I cannot follow the story. As for the story, it feels like it’s built for me, because ultimately it’s about moral decisions and how to make them; it’s about guilt and paying for mistakes; it’s about learning, changing your mind, and remaking yourself. Really, I’m not sure there are many stories I love more--except they killed my favorite character, and I almost quit. So, that certainly put a damper on things.

b. I love the characters most of all, although the villains are really two-dimensional. However, large parts of the plot are not Hero vs Villain, they’re Hero vs Society, and then some Hero vs Himself in a way that suggests the Hero is no longer a hero. I could talk about the characters forever, but suffice it to say I think they’re really strong. Also, the relationships are really exquisite, particularly when it comes to family dynamics. Unfortunately, they killed my favorite character off. Also unfortunately, there are six women in this show, only two of them are main characters, and every single one of them dies. It disgusts me.

c. I think the two leads are exceptional, in particular Xiao Zhan . . . when he’s not being too broad, which he is quite a bit. However, I do wonder how much of this is direction and production style, because in many instances, he’s quite subtle, and the choices he makes are astounding. Then there are times where it’s like they needed more footage, or wanted to drive home a point, and he turns on the extra, and it’s awful. It could just be him, but I actually feel it’s the case with most of the actors, which does make me think it’s a directing issue. Meng Ziyi never really has that problem though, because she is the most perfect of all. But then take He Peng, who I actually thought could be incredible, but every scene was just SO BROAD that I began to feel sorry for the poor dude having to act that part. But there is nothing to be said for Wang Zhuo Cheng, who really is just terrible, which is sad, because it’s a great part.

d. Production-wise, it’s really hit and miss. So much of the locations are truly beautiful. A lot of the costumes are too, unless the shot is too close. I actually don’t mind the wigs; I love the long hair. The CGI is terrible. And then while a lot of the shots are beautiful, some of them are awkward, and the pacing is really difficult, imo. It really seems like they wanted to drag it out, and there are so, so many scenes where I’m sort of embarrassed that we’re in the same scene or that we’re still looking at someone’s face, or that everyone is just standing there waiting for the shot to finally end.

I will say that film is a language that does differ from culture to culture. It could be that both the broadness of the acting and the awkwardness of the editing are my cultural lens based on American and a lot of western film. When I watched older Hollywood films, the acting is a lot more broad and maybe a little less “true” feeling, but I understand that it’s not the case everyone in the past was a bad actor. It was just a different style, so I’m not sure I’m equipped with the cultural knowledge of Chinese acting, cinematography, and editing to be able to really judge the value of these things.

I do know how I feel, which is that the editing is the biggest hurdle for me while watching the show. However, I feel that the beauty of it makes up for a lot, and the strength of the characters and themes really carries it.

I hope I addressed your points adequately, and I wish you well.

#Anonymous #the untamed #china

26 notes · View notes

mdzsnet · 4 years

Note

I started watching The Untamed recently and I’m really enjoying it so far but I would like to someday be able to watch it without subtitles. I’m planning to get Rosetta Stone so that I can begin learning the language, but are there any other resources that I can utilize while I’m saving the money for Rosetta Stone? I’m currently in a cash bind (as are we all - thanks Covid!) so cost effective options would be nice! Thanks! :)

Hello, anon!

First and foremost welcome to the fandom! We’re glad to hear you’ve been enjoying The Untamed so far.

Here are some tips to get immersed in the Mandarin language;

If you know anyone who's a native Mandarin speaker, hang out with them and ask them to speak in their native language. Hearing is an important part of getting to know and understand a language better, and you can always ask your friend if you don’t understand something they’re saying.

Watch movies or television shows in Mandarin, such as The Untamed, to get a better feel of the emotions in the language. Hearing Mandarin in movies or television shows helps you hear proper tones, make connections to what words are used in what context, and how these tie into relationships between people. Reading in Mandarin is a start, but hearing it is incredibly important to understand the language better.

Use free resources, such as the internet, to get a head start on Mandarin characters. It’s really useful if you already have the Mandarin alphabet down when you start learning a foreign language that doesn’t use the roman alphabet. It’s always useful to start learning with Pinyin, which the romanization of Mandarin characters based on their pronounciation. The most used romanization for Mandarin characters is the Yale romanization (x).

Make sure you have your basis covered before you start learning the language. Learning the basics of Mandarin, such as the tone, the final, the initial, the spelling rules, is a very important step for beginners. If you get ahold of the pronunciation it will make your communication with native Mandarin speakers go a lot smoother.

Once you have the basics down, try using it as much as you can. It’s a lot easier to learn standard greetings, words, etc. if you have your basics down and using them often and in different situations will only help improve your skills.

Here are some internet sources on the Mandarin language to get your basics down;

https://www.writtenchinese.com/wp-content/uploads/woocommerce_uploads/2017/05/Chinese-Beginner-Bundle.pdf

https://www.digmandarin.com/chinese-alphabet-chart-pdf.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XbQJPF817I

https://www.yoyochinese.com/blog/pinyin-beginners-guide-mandarin-chinese

If any of our followers know any other ways, or sources, please comment on this post.

I hope this helped!

– Admin E 🐇💛

#p:replies #anon

110 notes · View notes

emerald-studies · 4 years

Text

Diverse Perspectives | Discussion 1

****Whew, Tumblr deleted this entire post that was in my queue, so if there are mistakes in the transcript, sorry. I still highly, highly, suggest you read as you listen. I’ve added resources so you know what we reference in this discussion.*****

[ It is required to participate and watch/read these discussions, in order to follow me. Participate or get tf out. We aren’t performative in my lil’ area on Tumblr.

This discussion isn’t representative of an entire population or meant to be super professional. It’s to share different perspectives and also is an opportunity for me to practice what I preach: intersectionality. If you’d like to participate in this series please send me a pm or an ask and I’ll get back to you ASAP. We can do a written, audio, or video interview.]

To open this series, I interviewed Rachel, (AKA @reality-wont-ruin-my-life / @emmettisapowerbottom) for her perspective as a Jewish woman.

youtube

Transcript:

I recommend you read while you listen, I’ve made some clarifications because my ADD brain is shitty when I try to speak words.

(it has also been slightly edited for clarity)

Faith: OK, thank you for doing this with me, so I just want your perspective because you are a Jewish woman.

Rachel: Yes.

F: And I feel ... we don't talk about anti-Semitism enough in the right spaces.

R: Yeah.

F: I think we talk about it ... in history and then, ... it's not even called...I don't even remember it being called anti-Semitism, it was being ... framed as ... with this thing of the past that is around. So, first question for you is,

Do you believe that by learning about the Holocaust in such an apathetic bland setting, which is a classroom, we are being told anti-Semitism is a thing of the past?

R: Um, I think it has less to do with where we learn, because I do think it's really important to learn about ... the history, but I think the way it's taught is really where the issue comes is that they kind of teach it as this one event that's kind of a standalone thing instead of saying ..., hey, this is a historical pattern. So a lot of people seem to think antisemitism started with the Holocaust when there's thousands of years of history of it before that. And then they think it ended when the US joined the war, which the US didn't even join the war to help the Jews. That's a complete lie. So I think it's important that it's taught. But the way it's taught is, you know, you read The Diary of Anne Frank and you look at a few power points. And everyone stares at the Jewish kid ... us ... to--

F: Omg not to make it about me, but I remember watching ... a Jackie Robinson film and (also) learning about slavery in seventh grade. I was ... the only black person in the room. And they're always ... this *looks behind* it's just ... what? (are you looking at?)

R: I think every kind of minority group has that experience where the class talks about something and just ..., you know, everyone's staring at you.

F: Yeah. So, yeah, I agree with you. ..., context matters and I think ... even the pattern or how even the Holocaust even happened, ... it shouldn’t have happened and we're told we're learning about this, so it doesn't happen again, but what are these teachers telling us? They're not telling us what was the process of basically convincing a whole population that it's OK to kill, mass kill, people? So I feel ... it's not really seen in that context. I mean, at least I went to many different schools and, you know, different history classes. And it never really seemed ... it was deeper, ... it was more of ..., you know, this is your homework is about the Holocaust. It's ... this shouldn't be ... it shouldn't be ... that. I don't know how to explain it ... this is more than just ... a piece of paper that we fill out.

R: Definitely, yeah, I think people kind of get lost in that and think it's just this one unit instead of ..., you know. It decimated ... a third of the world's Jewish population and 90 percent of the Romani population.

F: Yeah, and it, I think that also isn't talked about because I did a whole presentation on, ... the experiments that took place and they took, ...disabled people or differently abled, whatever you prefer...and then I know, ..., multiple minority groups were put in those camps. So I also think it's interesting that I mean, .... I don't know how to explain it, I think by making it just about the Jewish population, it's ... “better” for people. People ... they can put it in a box, right, ... this won't affect me if it happened today. But, you know, if you have a family member that's a part of this group or part of the LGBTQ+ ... they were affected. So it's ... this* isn't just .... A certain people's problem. (*The Holocaust)

R: But at the same time, I feel ... especially when learning about and teachers tend to take her Jewishness out of it so that people can relate to it, ... she was a Jewish woman ......don't.

F: Yeah, it's ... you can humanize someone by just seeing them as human, you don't need to make them ... you don't need to make them fit, you know? Um, do you think the Internet has helped or hurt the Jewish community in terms of information and accessibility to the general public?

R: I say a mix of both because for me personally, ... growing up, I really separated myself from my Judaism at home. I was ..., oh, I don't you know, I think this is something you want to do as kids. It's ... you do your bar mitzvah and then you're just ... gone for awhile and finding ... Jewish people on the Internet really helped me reclaim my connection with my family. And now I study it ... it's my college degree... is Judaic studies and the history. But I've found that it's been really helpful for me finding ... Jewish people on the Internet, but at the same time...... conspiracy theories are a huge thing on the Internet, and so many of them are based on anti Semitism without people even realizing. So I think it's the spread of information and the ability to scapegoat groups from the Internet hurts Jews a lot, but it also really helpful for us in finding community within ... Jewish people.

F: Yeah, ... yeah, I can definitely see that because, I mean, I think that's...I've only ever heard the “pro” of social media is meeting people, like-minded people or different people, which I mean, thank you, Tumblr, because of this... but that's the only pro I've ever heard, is just meeting people. So I just think it's interesting that ..., ... there are all these negative things, you know, ... anti vaxxers..Flat earthers, ... “climate change isn't real”. It's just .... At least we get to meet each other? Look on the bright side, I guess.

R: Oh, yeah. You know, take the good with the bad or whatever. I have, but not to the extent some other people have, because I don't really have ... the stereotypical Jewish, which is ridiculous because you come in every color and everything. And also, I do want to say I don't speak for every Jew, every experience, ... I'm an upper class white woman living in Oregon. So, you know, I have a very different perspective than say and also I'm a certain branch of Judaism citizen. So I have a different perspective from ... a Black Orthodox Jew from New York, it’s going to be a very different lifestyle. So I haven't had death threats anything. I just...a lot of middle school and high school was ... when people would find out I was Jewish. ... Can I say, ... a Holocaust joke.?

F: Ugh

R: No, know, that's ... everyone when you're a kid, that's their first reaction. When you say things ..., oh, now I can make this joke about ovens and ..., please don't do that.

F: Oh, my God, that's so awful. I don't know why they do that.

R: And then all of a choir director once was ..., Oh ... because I got this solo in this piece that was about Anne Frank. She's ..., Oh, yeah, she even looks ... Anne Frank. I was ..., this was on the radio.

F: That's that's not OK. Oh my gosh. It's .... Look, look, she's not ... this, ... she was gorgeous, obviously, I think everyone's gorgeous, but ... she ... I've seen, ..., her eyes on people (edit: I meant she has common features, like everyone else) ... she's not. Yeah, her features are....Oh, my gosh...., it's just because--

R: the things that are considered stereotypical Jewish features are largely Middle Eastern features, ... it's thick hair, ... kind of bushy eyebrows, the nose with the bump, curly, dark, untamed hair.

F: Yeah, and that's just ... such a large (edit: large population), stereotypes are never really accurate. they're based on something dark, ... really dark. It's ... if you actually look into stereotypes on certain groups, it always has a dark origin. So many people have...ugh I’m not just going to even...

*Rachel’s video cuts out*

F: Ok next question:

Why do you think people of color are able to be anti-Semitic or kinda just hold anti Semitic beliefs, consciously or subconsciously?

R: I think a lot of it is the perception that being Jewish is inherently tied to having power, and so a lot of communities look at it as punching up, when that’s not the reality of the situation, so I think when... this goes for every other group I think that because that’s the kinda the stereotypical argument for why people don't like Jews is “Oh, well we control the world so other people were super wealthy we’re super rich so people can say, oh I can hate this group because they’re above me, so I’m punching up.”

F: Mhmmm

R: But you know there are Black Jews, there are disabled Jews, there’s...all these intersections. There’s plenty of poor Jews. So there’s this idea that just because you’re Jewish you’re rich and powerful.

F: Hmm. That’s a really good way to look at that, because you know I kinda do see how that falls into the “Eat the rich” or whatever. Um...and I recently learned, is it true, I probably should’ve researched this before, but is the illuminati Semitic? ... the idea of an illuminati?

R: The concept is, largely because of who they claim are in it. They are largely Jewish people. And also, it’s the same thing with the “lizard conspiracy/the lizard people”, which I was explaining this to my Mom...actually let me find the message...I think his name is David Icke? But he’s the creator of the “lizard conspiracy” and he also is a Holocaust denier who simultaneously believes that Jews funded the Holocaust to get ... attention….

F: *scoffs in disgust and utter confusion*

R: ...and to get people to pity them. And so a lot of people with go after Soros or the Rothschilds and say ... “oh they’re a part of the illuminati, they’re lizard people who are controlling the world.” and so, no, the concept of this elite group that runs the world and many of the people you’re putting in it are Jewish people.

F: Hmmm, oh ok.

R: Also throughout history, this goes way before the Holocaust, this has been going on for 2,000 years but ... Jews have been accused of running the-Jews--with the lizards they’ll say “Oh they’ll eat your kids” or they’ll do this thing. So Jews have been accused of this thing called blood libel, which is ... sacrificing Christian children and drinking their blood. Which never happened, there’s no documented cases of this, but we---there were large mass murders of Jewish people in the middle ages and also for stealing communion wafers. They would say that we would steal them and ...….stab them to ... to try and kill Jesus. Which sounds...... I think when we learned that we all laughed uncomfortably...but no you don’t understand, thousands of Jews were murdered for this….this isn’t a funny thing. And so it's this idea of ... this secret...Jewish society that’s gonna kill your kids, steal all the wealth and even--they’ll try to, David Icke, again, I don’t know if I’m pronouncing his name right, I’m sorry. But--

F: Who cares (if you’re pronouncing his name right) honestly?

R: It’s not anti-Semitic because these Jews who I’m accusing aren’t really human...but yes they are.

F: Yeah

R: These are Jewish people.

F:... any group of people are people...so he’s trying to say Jewish people are alien, so it doesn’t count?

R: Pretty much.

F: *wtf confusion laugh*

R: So I think a lot of times the people who spread the conspiracies don’t know….the prices of it. Once you learn, you dig a little deeper, you can see the issue that comes from it.

F: Do you think um that in that sense that memes can be hurtful--or harmful because of ... you know the illuminati meme. So people don’t know that the concept of the illuminati is essentially anti-Semitic, so do you think ... meme culture is contributing to ignorance?

R: I think yeah to some extent, because when it gets widespread enough you know? It becomes normalized and then when someone tries to speak about it and says, “Hey this thing is problematic” they’ll be ... “Oh no it’s just a joke, you’re taking it too seriously, it has nothing to do with that.” Well, if you look back, ... it does and historically these kinds of “jokes” have led to groups being persecuted. It’s just a matter of if someone tells you something is problematic, don’t brush it off.

F: And I would ... to point out that I made a joke about Mark Zuckerberg being a robot lizard in response to um...him uh trying to buy Native lands and I was like “What?”(when someone said it was Semitic) honestly my brain doesn’t even go to---I don’t research who people are. I don’t know why I didn’t know he was Jewish, I didn’t know. And then I went to I forgot what website I went to, I went through all the stereotypes of Jewish people and I didn’t see anything about “lizard”, but it was ...I was trying to find a way to excuse myself...but if someone tells you its wrong, it’s wrong.

R: And I think it’s about being willing to learn and listen ..., I made those jokes. I didn’t realize until earlier this year what the basis of it all was. So I’ve made plenty of jokes about the illuminati and lizard people….and then started reading things by other Jewish people and I was ... “Oh! I never thought about that.” I didn’t connect the dots and put that all together.

F: Yeah and especially with ... jokes ... they’re so modern, memes are so modern, so when we’re told about anti-semitism being framed as a past thing, we do this. So when we use jokes and stuff--I mean non-Jewish people, I think when we use jokes in general, honestly, about any group, we don’t think “Ok what’s the context of this? What’s the history behind this?” Because---BEYONCE friggin’ singing about the illuminati....

R: *laughs*

F: I mean she was kinda ... dragging it, but the jokes get that big. So I feel ...---I don’t know. I want to publicly apologize for calling Mark Zuckerberg a robot lizard because I thought that was a meme and not based in anti-Semitic language.

R: We’ve all done that so many times.

F: I was talking about how he’s ... a robot and acts weird, so it’s completely on me.

What do you want people to know about your culture?

R: Um, that it’s not a monolith. There’s this ongoing joke in the Jewish community that if you have two Jewish people in a room you’ll have three different opinions.

F: *laughs*

R: So we all practice differently, we all have a different relationship with religion and spirituality and that the big thing is that we’re not this all powerful group. I think it confuses people that Judaism isn’t...first off Judeo-Christian is not real we’re not--Judaism and christianity are very different so I get annoyed when they’re lumped together. “Judeo-Christian values” ... no we have completely different values and beliefs.

F: Yeah

R: I think it really confuses people when I tell them that I don’t believe in God but I still consider myself very Jewish, because it’s so intrinsically tied as this just religious concept but because of the persecution that Jewish communities have faced, it’s taken on this double role as an ethnicity and a religion. So ..., I’m a white person, there’s no way that I’m not white but I’m also a Jewish white person so it's kinda a different path, a different history. And I still have this connection with my Judaism, while at the same time, you know, I haven’t been to synagogue since I was 13, so I don’t believe in higher powers and stuff, at least at this point in my life. That could change, but I think it’s such a part of who we are and there’s that generational trauma that Jews are born with--or at least biological because you’re still just as Jewish if you convert to Judaism, I think there’s also this idea, Oh! My cat just came in...

I think there’s also this idea that when you’re controlling the world you're trying to make everyone like you. But Jews don’t proselytize, Jews aren’t trying to make other people Jewish. Which is very different than the way some other religions operate, where it’s going out and trying to get everyone to agree with you so you can save their soul or whatever...

F: Mhm

R: Also when it comes to--this is less for Judaism, this is for every group, ya know I was talking about um The BLM protests and using dark humor. In my experience at least, I think the groups that are affected can use dark humor about it. So ..., Black people can make jokes about police brutality, I can’t make jokes about police brutality because it’s not affecting me personally, so I feel ... Jewish people, we wanna make Jew jokes between ourselves, that’s fine, but when other people make jokes ... ok now it’s uncomfortable because of that power imbalance, ‘cause you haven’t faced a holocaust or gone through these things I’ve gone through as a Jewish person, and I haven’t gone through these other things. So I think when people make a joke “Oh I have a dark sense of humor, I like to use dark humor to cope” well it’s not ... your trauma to cope with. I think that’s with every group that’s gone through something...there’s certain dark humor that you can’t use.

F: Yeah that’s such a good way to put it because ... you may be coping with other things but it’s not the thing you’re talking about, so why do you need to cope with the jokes about that? I’ve heard, anti-Semitic jokes and I’m ... “What the-” *leans back* from ... non- Jewish people and….who is that for? How is that make you feel better as a human? I was like: “Why are you doing this? Shut up.”

R: Yeah.

F: They know it’s wrong...it’s like the “edgy” 4chan type of thing ... *~I’m so edgy~* No your’e not. Personally, I think you’re weak if you can’t come up with a joke that doesn’t hurt a group of people

R: Oh yeah. Oh and then another thing I’d ... people to realize about Judaism is for one….the issue of Judaism and anti-Semitism is separate from the issue of Israel/Palestine and anti-Zionism and also not every Jew has the same opinion on it and we’re not all experts on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, so you don’t need to derail every discussion with “Oh what are your thoughts on Palestine? Do you support Palestine? Do you support Israel?” Because it’s so separate, and such a complex issue. You know because I was born Jewish doesn’t mean that I automatically have this innate knowledge of the entire conflict. It can kinda be used as a way to derail people when talking about anti-Semitism we face, ya know you’ll--I’ve seen this a lot on TikTok where people will make videos talking about things they face and a lot of the comments are “Free Palestine”...well they didn’t mention Palestine, we don’t know their views on Palestine. Just ‘cause you’re Jewish that doesn’t make you a Zionist, just---I’m sure people who have Palestinian heritage doesn’t make you anti-Zionist, ya know? They're separate issues and people ... to lump them into one…..and if someone says that anti-Zionism is treading into Semitism, then we should listen to them because they’re two separate things and you can protest in Israel and not be falling into anti-Semitic tropes.

F: Right, that’s such a complex subject. I would never ask someone straight up: “Who’s side are you on?!” because it’s so, so complex. I remember I tried to dedicate a whole day to just researching, “Ok what’s going on?” and it’s just ... so much information it’s just hard because I don’t even want to speak on it because it has nothing to do with me, so I was just trying to get--I remember when it was on the news a lot, right? I’m like trying to understand what you guys are saying, so I like to do background researching and oh my gosh, I can’t imagine summing up your opinion in one sentence about that or why you chose this side and not that. It’s so varied.

R: Ya know I’m still learning about it, I don’t know that much about it so ya know when I try to talk about this Jewish thing they’ll be ... “Oh! What are your thoughts on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?” I’m just ... *raises hands up* “I don’t know, I need time to learn more”

F: Yeah it’s like *looks at phone* “hold on a sec (while I research more on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and get back to ya)”

How do you see yourself in your country?

R: Um...it’s complicated because I’m from a privileged family in a privileged area so I know I have intrinsic power in this country, Judaism is easier to hide than other things. You can’t look at me and know I’m Jewish whereas you could look at a Black person and know they’re Black, you could look at a Muslim wearing a headscarf and know they’re Muslim. So it’s much easier to get away with things, I’m not going to be profiled until I open my mouth and say something about my Judaism, but at the same time, there is that fear because we’ve seen it before, Jews in Germany weren’t identifiable by looking at them but it’s on their birth certificate and they started rounding up. So I do get that little pang of panic every time I see “Jewish cemetery desecrated” or “Swastikas drawn on synagogue”...last time I went to synagogue was after the Tree of Life shooting, I went in solidarity and there was ... armed guards outside and it was so scary thinking about “Oh my God there could be a bomb threat, there could be a shooter.” and there’s this idea where I know I have privilege and I know I’m in a position of power but at the same time, ... I know that I have to be ready to flee if something happens, because every few generations of Jews have had to do that, for thousands of years now. So it’s all complex intertwined identity, where-so I call myself “Conditionally white”, I benefit so much from white privilege and everything except my Judaism is white, white, white but then there’s at the same time, I wasn’t considered white under the defining whatever, where you write down your race, in the eyes of the US until ... the 50s. They had white and Jewish as two separate ethnicities or races. It’s such a weird place to be.

F: Yeah and of course, I know you say you are/look white so you have all this privilege and stuff but at the same time, being scared of sharing a part of you that’s...an average white person doesn’t have to be scared of ... saying “Oh I believe this” and then if you feel the fear of sharing that, just in general or fear of a hate crime, that is very valid. And I think sometimes we forget that.

R: It’s interesting sometimes hearing people talk about Judaism. They think of it as this “Oh taking over the world, there’s gotta be a lot of them” it’s ... well, there’s 14 million of us in the world right now, about a third are in Israel, the US has 1.5 million. Compared to that, probably half the world's population is Christian. There's 1 or 2 billion Muslims, we’re a very small group comparatively.

F: I do think the illuminati thing perpetuates that so much, subconsciously or unconsciously….although it’s supposed to be a “smaller group” or whatever but still they make it ... this huge thing kinda framed like Scientology. It’s so weird that people don’t--I’ve heard many Christians claim that “I’m scared to say I’m Christian” and it's just ... that’s so valid for you and I’m not disregarding your experience...the historical context behind it, even people who are Muslim and all these hate crimes...I don’t think I’ve ever seen a hate crime against a Catholic church...

R: Not in a very long time and when it has been, it’s usually between Christian sects.

F: Yeah, that too, infighting. I dunno where I was going with that. *laughs* but I know what you mean by blowing up this population to be a “threat”. I think that happens with any group that someone disagrees with like the “liberals” “antifa” they blow it up to huge populations, ... “Oh my gosh we’re being invaded!” I’m surprised that more people haven’t seen with, you know the steps to genocide, that’s one of the things (steps), it’s making this group of people a “threat” that’s “invading” a space...I’m surprised that people don’t see that about any group but especially about the Jewish community, AGAIN! That’s not the first time! It’s just constant, there’s no breaks!

R: Yeah that’s most of Jewish history since other major religions came in….you know we haven’t been in power since Christianity came in.

What’s the biggest misconception bout your community?

R: Um, I’d say probably getting back to that rich/powerful thing. Just the, ya know that and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict thing. Those are the two things I hear the most and also Holocaust deniers..which I don’t know why there are so many but there are like or the people who say “Oh yeah it happened but it’s not as bad as they make it seem.”.

F: Sooo stupid. I just can’t imagine denying any sort of crime against humanity, .. I can’t even talk about it, it makes me so pissed.

Do you feel like there is adequate representation of your community in the media?

R: Um I think we definitely have more representation than other groups...but I find it to be kind of more one track or stereotypical so it doesn’t show ... the breadth of the Jewish community. The only show about Jews is Unorthodox and that kinda portrays Orthodox Judaism in a not great light. But I think there’s a lot more Jewish….you know they used to say “Jews control Hollywood” because a lot of actors and directors were Jewish and it’s ... “Well, maybe we’re just creative?”

F: *laughing*

R: So theres a lot of famous Jews and I guess a lot of Hollywood producers are Jewish but I think when it comes to actual characters, we don’t see practicing Jews that aren’t relying on stereotypes. But I don’t think the media is particularly targeted harmful to Jews the way it’s targeted other communities.

F: What do you think about the movies about the Holocaust that come out every year? And I’m not saying anything against them, I’m just curious what your take on that is because it’s interesting that I see a lot of these movies come out right? But in school it’s a day lesson, but the media keeps on talking about it. Do you appreciate that? Do you wish the content was better?

*both laugh*

R: I think some are better done than others. I prefer, my area of study is the Holocaust, so I have to submerse myself in all that stuff because that’s what my thesis is going to be on, it’s frustrating sometimes to see the fictionalized stories pushed over the real ones, especially the ones that have Christian charac---Boy in the Striped Pajamas made sob when I first watched it. Then I watched it again and I realized you’re only side because the little Christian kid dies.

F: *gasps in awe/mind blown* Ugh you gotta put that somewhere and share it because that’s such a good point!

R: And then there's, there was drama about some of the Holocaust books and they were ... hey “this isn’t a real story this didn’t happen but your pushing it as a real story”. So I….there’s so many real life tragedies that sometimes it seems a little weird that you create your fake characters about it. But at the same time, I do enjoy Holocaust movies ... I do consume content but there does seem ... a weird disproportionate obsession with it. I’ve said this to my family, I don’t really trust non-Jews who are super into WW2. ... there’s something about it, why are you so into it? “... I think it’s cool how that could happen, it’s cool to think about how….” I don’t really trust your motives, there’s something off to me. I think when it’s their personality is ... WW2! Holocaust!...Why are you so invested in this?

F: Oh my gosh yeah. Do you think there could be more movies about real people in real stories? ... I’ll look at “Is this movie true” (On google) ... The Boy in the Striped Pajamas So (I looked up) “Is this true” and it said, “Ummm no.” and it’s like... OK but wouldn’t it be more impactful to have real stories that are told?

R: I think so to some extent but I also don’t think they should do it without permission and sometimes there isn’t someone’s permission to ask.

F: Right.

R: But you don’t want those stories to die, you know if there’s a family left and this story is important and you don’t want it to get lost in the books but you know, so much has already been taken from the Jewish community...you have to weigh whether or not it’s worth it to contribute to that to get a story out there.

Do you think some directors and writers choose to make a story about the Holocaust as Oscar bait?

R: Probably. I think tragedies tend to do well in the awards circuit and I think tragedies about white people especially tend to do well. So I think if you...have this event, something that everyone knows about, everyone knows about the Holocaust, and they go “Ok well they’re not going to turn down this story about this kid in the Holocaust”. I don’t know every director's intention, there could be some who want to get the story out there. But I do think it’s easier to get something about a major historical event.

Do you feel that Jewish people are put in a box, only being seen as victims?

R: I’d say it’s usually the opposite. I’d feel ... both sides of the political spectrum put Jewish people in this box of “oppressor”.

F: Mhmmm

R: You see it because it’s one of those groups that gets hit on both sides. Where ... a lot of people say “Oh yeah well in the Holocaust you were all the victims.” which doesn’t annoy me because you’ll see these people say “They just willingly got on the carts to drive to camps and no one fought back.” well, no there were militias there were uprisings. They weren't just happily getting on these buses and not fighting for their lives. So I do think there’s a lot of victimization when it comes to the Holocaust, but a lot of people say “That was in the past, now no one’s attacking the Jews, no one’s doing anything so they’re taking advantage of us”. So I think in a historical context Jews are placed in a box of victimhood but in a modern context, it’s flipped.

F: Hm. How do you see left v. right, can you explain how you’ve seen each group take hits at the Jewish community?

R: Yeah

F: Kinda ... just a few points for people to watch and look out for?

R: The right is pretty much what you’d expect, neo-Nazis, swastikas, SS tattoos which is not fun, I don’t like seeing those. You see these white supremacists and I think on the left, they think all the Jews in that group are included in the white supremacy, when we’re explicitly excluded, we are not considered white by white supremacist standards. But you see the left use Steven Miller and Jared Kushner who, you know, they’re Jewish, they’re also terrible people but they happen to be Jewish...and them being terrible doesn't make them not Jewish but you see people like that...from the left we see a lot more of the anti-semitism coming out kinda disguised by anti-Zionism.

F: Mhmm

R: Again, I think there are perfectly valid reasons to be anti-Zionist. Another issue I have that the left like to do, which sometimes is valid and sometimes isn’t, is comparing things to the Holocaust.

F: Mhmm

R: Sometimes I think that’s…..can compare something, especially if Jewish people are saying that “Hey, these are things that we were seeing happening in Nazi Germany that we’re seeing now.” I remember getting really upset when I was seeing vegans compare animal farming to the Holocaust and ... yeah I have a lot of issues with the meat industry but don’t conflate those two things ‘cause its basically saying Jewish people are cattle. That’s how it comes out to the Jewish people.

F: Yeah I just looked up, I just wanted to make sure, yeah I have definitely heard that in the vegan community and it does bother me, um...I um feel like genocide is a better way to put it because it’s a mass killing of a population, the Holocaust-

R: Yeah the Holocaust is tied to a specific event.

F: Yeah, so I have also seen a video of a Holocaust survivor who went vegan, who compared it to the Holocaust, but I think that is his right.

R: Yeah when you are affected. If someone is from a group and critiquing a way a group is handling something, ok I’ll listen to your side of this but when it’s an outsider, I’m not sure you have a say in that.

F: No, and even the way the Holocaust happened, the steps to the Holocaust didn’t happen to animals, the animals weren’t stereotyped, they weren’t vilified. I don’t think it’s accurate.

R: At the same time I don’t think it’s just comparing everything to the Holocaust, just listen to Jewish people when we start saying, “Hey, this is looking eerily similar.”. I remember in 2015/16 I remember saying, “Hey when you look at his platform,” I’m sure we all know who he is--

*laughs*

R: “he has pretty much the textbook definition of fascism.” “Oh no, he doesn’t have this one step, it’s fine.” And then he’ll pass that step and it’s like, “Hey guys, I told you we’ve seen this before….these are the 14 steps and we’re at like 12 now.”

F: Yeah and you’ve studied it so you’d think that people would listen to you.

R: Yeah I started learning about the Holocaust, probably ... first grade in Hebrew school. Ya know ... I’ve seen all these pict---also if people could not just share these Holocaust pictures, constantly without any warning, ... those are photos that are traumatic to a lot of us. Now, I’m used to seeing them again because it’s what I study but you see people, they’ll share things, when they’re comparing to the Holocaust, they’ll put like a Holocaust photo...you know those are people ... that I know. Those are my Grandparent’s friends, those are the parents of one of my teachers. I feel like people forget, they lump it into the numbers “Oh yeah 6 million Jews died”, but yeah each of those 6 million was a person. So when you post a photos, piles of dead bodies, those are people.

F: I don’t agree with that either, even our presentations we would do about the Holocaust, it didn’t feel right seeing these people put behind a title.

R: I feel like people get swept up by the numbers that they forget it’s people. It’s real people who went through this. And it’s sad because we’re getting to that time because the last of the Holocaust survivors are reaching the end of their lifespan, so it’s gonna be harder and harder to have people come in and tell you firsthand, which helps to humanize it.

F: Yeah and especially the deniers, what going to happen when these people--and thank goodness they survived, hopefully they have a peaceful passing, but once they’re gone they’re going to be like “Oh no one has been there….”

R: So another thing, I went to a racist white high school. We had a lot of issues, we had 3 Black people at my school and we had issues with graffiti slurs against the Black people, so they brought in a Holocaust survivor to talk about tolerance, but it was very propaganda. So this Holocaust survivor came in and talked about how they befriended one of the nazi guards and I was like “This is not the story that we need to be sharing…

F: Wh-what?

R:... this nazi guard and this Jewish person became friend like that’s not how it is for the 99.9% of them. Don’t use it as your propaganda for tolerance saying “Yeah the victims and the ones who are hurting them should just like this person should just forget about what happened to them and just be friends with them.” So I think it’s just used as propaganda a lot instead of letting it stand as the story it is.

F: Or even “taking the high road”. Just like pretending you love everybody, “I love the people who did this to my family, my community”

R: It makes the people who don’t (take the high road) seem like they’re being irrational...hey I don’t like Nazis, I support punching Nazis then like “Hey you need to preach tolerance.” no they murdered people I know.

F: Yeah I’ve even, I’ve only seen one Nazi-Nazi in Nevada in person, it’s just ......he was wearing a Deutschland shirt, it’s just so crazy how--I made a post about this, and he just looked so weak, that always stuck with me. He looked so weak and insecure, and I’m like you should feel that way because there are so many groups of people who are stronger with their bonds with each other, like the Jewish community or any community, that you should feel weak because you just want to be an angsty little white boy. Side note: he looked me in the eyes and I looked at him back and he left. So….

*laughs*

F: That was only a fraction of what you feel. I feel ... we’re so desensitized to swastikas, I mean I haven’t seen one as graffiti, but the image, I feel we are too desensitized to that.

R: Oh yeah I get frustrated with people who say “We need to reclaim the swastika”.

F: *Laughs* “Noo”

R: I get you wanna reclaim if but it’s too far gone. It’s traumatizing for the Jewish community, I get it used to be the symbol of peace…

F: Right

R: But it’s just not what that is anymore.

F: I mean that’s why it was taken, I’m sure you’ve studied this, but that’s why Hitler got people to jump on board because it’s this pretty picture of this “peaceful future”. So taking it back would almost be like...that’s where it started and look at where we are...

R: I personally haven’t come across Jews who want to reclaim it, it’s non-Jews. And there might be Jews who want to, I don’t know every Jew on Earth but the ones I’ve interacted with are all uncomfortable seeing swastikas. And you know when I see those photos of swastikas on this Jewish cemetery destroying the grave, it’s ... I can’t help picture that with my Grandparent’s graves, ... oh what if this was where my family was buried.

F: Yeah in my hometown there was a lot of that going around, just everywhere, it’s just disgusting. The fact that non-Jewish people suggested reclaiming that? That’s just disgusting and inappropriate. You don’t have a right to-- for anyone watching, you don’t have a right to go up to a Jewish person and say “No but I wanna do this” no, that’s not right, if it doesn’t apply to you, don’t speak on it. Or try to reclaim anything. I’m done with reclaiming things. When you said “non-Jewish people” I thought that you were talking about your Jewish friends who thought “You know maybe we could take it back…”

R: No.

F: Deadass

R: No all the Jewish people I know don’t like seeing swastikas and have no interest in seeing them in our lives.

F: Like understandably, it’s not even crazy! I wouldn’t. Ugh.

What would you like to see more of from allies?

R: Um, I think more listening, I like this kind of stuff, just having a conversation. Just not speaking for us and just amplifying our voices. And again, not conflating Judaism and Christianity. Not being like “Oh our Judeo-Christian values” Jews aren’t good because they’re related to this Christian thing, no it’s our own thing, it’s very different religion. And even if what the Jewish person is saying something you don’t agree with, just listen at least and say your side, you know we’re not a monolith. We aren’t one person with one mind. We aren’t going to agree on everything, and you know if someone said that something you said was anti-Semitic, don’t get defensive, let them explain why and try and be better. Because we’re not going around saying every single thing is anti-Semitic.

F: Of course, you have a reason

R: Call out celebrities when they promote dangerous things.

F: Yeah like dangerous ideas. I would like to personally work on what things are inherently anti-Semitic and have been popularized so I know and can share that info.

R: And also for the stuff I’ve seen recently, when people seem to be calling out anti-Semitism they call it out a lot more strongly with Black people and that’s a problem. Black people can be anti-Semitic, we saw that with Nick Canon, we saw that with Luis Farakesh, (Edit: She meant Louis Farrakhan)

F: Ice cube

R: We’ve seen Black celebrities say anti-Semitic things and also white celebrities so don’t just call it out when it’s just Black people. I’ve been following some Black dudes on twitter who are saying “Hey this makes me really uncomfortable. Why are you going so hard against this person and not against this person?”

F: Yeah I guess I never thought about that with the Nick Canon thing. That was a mess.

R: Yeah and what he said was completely wrong.

F: I heard so many different versions of what he said, ... “Black people are beautiful” but wait no that’s not what he said

*laughs*

F: I do think um my question about POC people being anti-Semitic was based on Ice Cube, honestly. That shocked me, I was shocked, my jaw fell when he posted an anti-semitic image, not a swastika. How can you want support and then do this? So...

R: I think it’s the idea that they’re punching up.

F: Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned looking for how people react to a POC being anti-Semitic V. a white person because I can’t even recall the last time I heard a white person like be called out, or dragged/cancelled as much as Nick Canon.

R: Yeah you’ll see it with the right-wing politicians, they’ll get called out, but you don’t see it from the moderates or left wing celebrities, even though they’re also out there saying things.

F: Like anyone can be anti-Semitic anyone can be racist and I think that’s why I want to share your perspective to help a little bit, because even your friends and family can be saying stuff like this, it’s important to not let it slip through (and think) “Oh they didn’t mean that”...address it. I hope this helps in some way. Thanks for letting me interview you

R: Thanks for wanting to interview me.

F: No problem. I’m gonna stop this and then we can talk a lil’ privately. Byeeee

R: Bye.

Let’s have a discussion! Did you learn anything new from this conversation?

Let me know here.

To close out each post, I’d like to write a lil’ paragraph about the person I talk with:

Rachel is kind and expresses her thoughts skillfully. Her resilience is deeply apparent because she’s able to study the horrific history of her people and still stay sane. That is a feat I could never, ever, live up to. Reliving pain takes such a huge amount of strength and power. Rachel’s kind words (and others’ from in the egg gang ;) ) really helped me when I was in a dark spot. I’m blessed that you took the time to talk with my wacky self. I hope we continue to be friends and I also hope you know that I’m always here for you, Rachel, as you were there for me.

You are a treasure.

-Faithxx

#intersectionality #jewish community #discussionswithfaith #twilight

52 notes · View notes

sunnydaleherald · 3 years

Text

The Sunnydale Herald Newsletter - Monday, April 19

Cordelia: So, are you dating somebody or not? Buffy: I wouldn't use the word 'dating', but I am going out with somebody. Tonight, as a matter of fact. Willow: Really? Who? Faith puts her hand on Xander's shoulder and pulls him aside a little so she can squeeze in. Faith: Yo, what's up? (nudges Buffy's shoulder) Hey, time to motorvate. Buffy: (puts her arm around Faith) Really, we're just good friends.

~~Revelations~~

The Sunnydale Herald is currently looking for a few new editors. For more information, send us an ask (on Tumblr) or post a reply to this post (on Livejournal or Dreamwidth)!

Submit a link to be included in the newsletter!

[Drabbles & Short Fiction]

Guess I'm just jealous (Buffy, Willow, T) by bodytoflame

When She Changed Everything, Chapter 1 (Buffy/Faith, E) by Lehane730

Just Two Slayers In Love (Buffy/Faith, E) by Lehane730

Christmas in LA (Angel crew, G) by shipping_galore

Angel's People Skills (Buffy/Spike, G) by lex_hex

Original (Angel/Spike, G) by VioletArroyo

Who is the sexier couple? (Buffy/Faith, Willow/Tara, T) by Aragorn_II_Elessar

Defense (Buffy/Faith, T) by AlineLovelace

Way Better (Buffy/Faith, M) by Echo126

Help In New York (Buffy, Marvel Cinematic Universe crossover, G) by LadyWinterlight

Safe House (Buffy, Willow, Faith, Marvel Cinematic Universe crossover, G) by LadyWinterlight

Target Practice (Buffy, Faith, Marvel Cinematic Universe crossover, G) by LadyWinterlight

[Chaptered Fiction]

Fuffy, Chapter 1 (Buffy/Faith, E) by Lehane730

The Cookie Incident, Chapter 1 (Buffy/Spike, T) by DeamonQueen

When in Rome, Chapter 46 (French language) (Dawn/Spike, T) by OldGirl-NoraArlani

A Jedi, a Wizard, and a Scooby walk into a bar, Chapter 24 (Xander, Star Wars and Harry Potter crossover, T) by slocuautla

Continuity and Context - a WWS story, Chapter 6 (Willow/Tara, T) by absolutefem

Choose Your Lock, Chapter 1 (Angel, Spike, My Hero Academia crossover, T) by Cynder2013

One Chance, Chapter 19 (Buffy/Spike, NC-17) by AtlantianDream

Dress My Body All in Flowers White, Chapter 13 (Buffy/Spike, R) by othellia

Child of Shadow, Chapter 16 (Buffy/Spike, R) by Sigyn

Broken Bridges, Chapter 26 (Buffy/Spike, NC-17) by Dusty

The Cookie Incident, Chapter 5 (Buffy/Spike, NC-17) by DeamonQueen

The Warlock's Nephew, Chapter 10 (Buffy/Spike, NC-17) by AlloSpoike

Seasons in the Sun, Chapter 8 (Cordelia, The Untamed crossover, FR13) by DragonsPhoenix

Slayers and Trollhunters, Chapter 3 (Ensemble, Trollhunters crossover, FR15) by Starfox

Have You Heard The One--? Chapter 6 (Ensemble, FR18) by Manchester

[Images, Audio & Video]

Cosplay: Lorne by pumkinportfolio

Fan art: Dawn in "Him" by joantheslayer

Artwork process video: Puppets & Nightmares | Drawing Vampire Buffy (Season 1 Episode 7, 8) by Buffy Club

Video: Analysing Buffy | BTVS Buffy and Beauty | Does Buffy Equate Beauty With Morality? by What the Pop

Video: Buffy & Spike | The Archer by HostilePoet17

Video: Spike & Buffy | She will always hate me by Delena Fan Girl

Video: Buffy Spike damn your eyes by Buffy Spike

[Reviews & Recaps]

Episode Discussion Discussion of 8.38 "Last Gleaming Part 3" - Released 11/3/10 (Dark Horse) continued by Stake fodder

Helpless by phoebephile

Just finished As You Were for the first time by Dvaderstarlord

Finished rewatching Season 2 [of Buffy] today by Dvaderstarlord

20 Year Rewatch - s03e02 "That Vision Thing", s03e03 "That Old Gang of Mine" by Ohigetjokes

Smile Time... by salvbitch

Angel (re)watch: Season 1 - Episodes 18 (Five by Five) and 19 (Sanctuary) by lorZzeus

Video: Puppets & Nightmares | Drawing Vampire Buffy (Season 1 Episode 7, 8) by Buffy Club

Video: Buffy The Vampire Slayer - "Tabula Rasa" Rewatch With Shiny Antics! by After Show Reactions

Video: Angel 4x06 "Spin The Bottle" REWATCH with After Show Reactions! by Shiny Antics

Podcast: I Will Remember You S4 E8Ex by Buffy and the Art of Story

[Recs]

Video: Rare on set SMG interview from As You Were recced by Btvs fan

Video: Buffy Summers | You didn't earn it, by anomalykru recced by Maximum_Arachnid2804

[Fandom Discussions]

I'm so glad that they brought Darla back later to give her much more to do by actuallylorelaigilmore

About Darla cowering to male vampires by actuallylorelaigilmore

Buffy Anne Summers started a revolution of the oppressed working class by gothic-buffy

Sometimes I think about how BtVS decided to make Robin Wood the villain by ofstormsandwolves

Kendra deserved to live and have a full character arc by yourfriendlyneighborhoodbimbo

What is Giles’ problem continued by multiple posters

What is the significance/point of Angel and Buffy sharing dreams in Amends? by Cheese Slices

How do you view Wes' arrival and the treatment of him by the group? continued by Stoney

Lack of discussion about Cordy by salvbitch

For those of you who see The Mayor as not truly loving Faith how do you interpret the way in which he died? by LightBlueSky55

Does Cordelia get any more useful? by Vegetable-Push-1383

The ending of "Empty Places" in Season 7 feels like a rehash of "Dead Man's Party" from Season 3 by precita

What is wrong with the Dawn character by Vanamond3

Oz's hair by jaideheda

What are your top 5 controversial Buffy-related opinions? by hiyatheremister

Thoughts on Principal Robin Wood? by precita

BtVS SEASONS 8-12 need an animated TV adaptation by ghavrielle

I know we are divided on this topic, but I want more Buffyverse! by North-Cell-6612

What are your favorite quotes on the show? by MelliDeh

This one comment from Spike is completely unfair and I’m not sure why it’s not called out more? by LightBlueSky55

Why do people here feel that characters can't make mistakes, have flaws, or do the wrong thing? by precita

Has anyone else noticed that Buffy is super into English literature? by baroqueen1755

SLAYERS - My idea for a Buffy Reboot by The_Zuh

Video: Analysing Buffy | BTVS Buffy and Beauty | Does Buffy Equate Beauty With Morality? by What the Pop

#buffy the vampire slayer #btvs #angel the series #ats

7 notes · View notes

myfriendsarerealidiots · 4 years

Text

Comparing Adaptations

‘Kay so I went on one of my whims again and did something stupid. Couple weeks or so ago, I wasn’t really in the mood to watch anime so I opened up Netflix and watched a Cdrama that I wanted to watch for a while now.

That Cdrama was ‘The Untamed’ which, prior to me watching it and doing said whim, I thought was just your typical historic Cdrama. Oh boy I was wrong. As I was watching it, I was thinking to myself, “This show’s really selling itself off as BL.” Which, I found out after finishing it was because it is BL. Hah...and that was just the start of it.

As I was doing my ‘Post-show research,’ I found out that it was based of a novel, called ‘Mo Dao Zu Shi’or as translated by the people on the internet as ‘Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation.’ Said novel had 2 more adaptations along with ‘The Untamed’ which were a manhua and a donghua. So me being me, I decided to watch the donghua adaptation and read both the og novel and manhua.

So how I went through this was...

The Untamed (2019)

The Donghua aka Anime I guess

The Manhua which I read while having class (such a responsible student aren’t I)

The original novel

All hail this person who has too much free time on her hands.

Anyways, as it says on the tin, I’ll be comparing the 4 adaptations/versions of the story and see what changes between them as well as the pros and cons. (Wow I sound so professional)

Some background of myself just to avoid confusion

I am not a mega hardcore Fujoshi. I don’t really enjoy reading smut, nor am I old enough to do so bear that in mind

I have 7 years worth of Chinese lessons under my belt which means I barely understand a thing and that I can get some of the jokes like how Wei Ying’s sword is called ‘Sui Bien’ and it’s funnier to hear in Chinese. In other words, compared to like actual Chinese people who live in China, I pretty much have the knowledge of a 10 year old.

The versions of the Manhua and Novel that I read were translated in English so somethings might have been lost in translation.

I have a bit of a goldfish brain so forgive me if I wrote something wrong or forgot the name of a certain character, most likely I will look it up to correct it but if I don’t...well sorry.

I am writing my opinions on each version as I finish them, so if they don’t link up to the original that’s the reasoning behind it.

All of these are my opinions and thoughts on the story. You are not entitled to follow them if you disagree. I personally believe that everyone has a voice of their own and they should use it. (Even though I don’t half of the time.)

Slight Spoiler Warning

I will be breaking down some of the scenes and characters for my comparisons so please keep that in mind.

The Untamed (2019)

As this was my first exposure to the story, I didn’t know what to expect. I loved everything about it except for the fact that literally half of the show was spent in the past, building context for what was happening in the present.

The characters were lovable and all had distict personalities, especially Wei Ying and Lan Zhan which I guess makes sense since they’re the main characters (their actors are also cute and have good chemistry.) Speaking of characters, Yanli has a more forward role in the story here compared to the other versions. The way certain characters were introduced was different too. Since it’s live action, it’s also harder to show things like extreme blushing and such so it makes Lan Zhan look very stoic and way more unexpressive here than in the other versions.

The soundtrack is nice to listen to, especially with the 2 mains singing the theme song together it’s so cute and gives it another meaning in itself. Although, I do wonder how that poor bamboo flute Wei Ying made in like 2 mins plays decent sounding music. Chen Qing(is this the name of it?), the flute he uses after his trip to the Burial Grounds has the same sound quality as that bamboo flute which is just, “how???”

They took out most of the extreme BL!!! I feel like that is the biggest difference between this version and all the rest. I know they did that to appeal to more people but it does remove some of the context to things. That doesn’t mean the moments that were kept in weren’t cute though. It did make the pair look more plantonic than romantic.

As for the story itself, as a story on its own, it’s nice, as an adaptation that’s where the line gets blurry but it leans more towards the good side. They did indeed change some things, made them work better with the medium than if they didn’t.

An example I can place is the mask. Where the other versions used white make up with oddly placed red circles around the eyes, this one used a mask instead. I agree with the choice they made, seeing as they removed the fact that Mo Xuanyu was homosexual and so the make up wouldn’t make sense. It also looks nicer than what I imagined what could’ve happened with they kept with the make up. They do make a reference to this in the show when Jin Ling and Wei Ying have a conversation in Carp Tower. “You’ve seen my face right?” “How do I know? Your face is always caked in make up or covered by that mask.”

Another issue I had which I’ll touch on later was the first episode—I had no idea what was going on for those 40 minutes of screentime.

Donghua

As of writing this post, season 3 of this has yet to come out.

My first reaction to this was “Man, the animation’s pretty, and they made Wei Ying look scarier.” Watching stuff at 12 in the morning isn’t the best thing but that’s what I do.

Anywho, this version made Wei Ying really attracted to going down the path of ‘evil’ compared to the other versions. I don’t really understand why they made this change...but they did so we have to deal with that. And his eyes glow red!! It makes him look scary and cool at the same time. I love it!!

The transitions between certain events were a bit weird to say the least. For example, at the end of episode 2/3 Wei Ying gets forcibly dragged into the Cloud Recesses and the episode ends there. By the next episode, we’re 16/23/13 however many years in the past. This makes it really confusing for someone who hasn’t watched or read any other version of the story. It definitely made me confused and I already finished one.

While ‘The Untamed’ told us everything in one long flashback, the donghua broke it up into small chunks placed whenever information was needed. I don’t think that was a good idea, but then I also think it was a better decision than what they did for the Cdrama. As I watched this adaptation, I found myself confused from time to time because what happened in the prior episode didn’t always match what happened in the current episode like I mentioned earlier.

As for the artstyle, personally, I think some of the characters look similar minus the hair. However, I do like the little ways they made Lan Zhan express his feelings towards Wei Ying.

Speaking of which, when I first saw them together in this version in the forest near the Goddess Temple, I had to do a bit of a double take because of the height difference which wasn’t so evident in ‘The Untamed’. I soon found out that Lan Zhan was taller than Wei Ying before and after he gets reincarnated(?) Prior, it was just a small gap of 2cm which later turned to 6cm after possessing Mo Xuanyu.

I didn’t notice their height gaps while watching ‘The Untamed’ because Wei Ying’s actor, Xiao Zhan, is taller than Lan Zhan’s actor, Wang Yi Bo by about 2 inches which is like 5 cm? and so they had to do some weird thing with platforms to make Xiao Zhan look shorter in comparison.

Soundtrack wise, I personally think that ‘The Untamed’ was better in that sense. Where it had an amazing souding flute, this one had minor earrape in a nutshell.

This version made itself, in my eyes look more like a historical fighting anime as opposed to the BL vibes I was getting from ‘The Untamed’ and the other versions. They added a lot of action scenes and made the mystery more interesting for me. Along with this, the overall look and feel of this made it seem like it came from a completely different source material.

Manhua

Small FYI, as of writing this post the Manhua is at 147 Chapters.

(I should’ve kept up the trend and got a screenshot from that scene in the Manhua but I didn’t so here we are with gay rabbits.)

As your local internet friend who reads more manga than normal books nowadays, I enjoyed reading the manhua and finished it in a couple days.

Compared to the first 2 versions here, these last 2 are both things that you have to read to get through, albeit one has pictures and one doesn’t.

While normally, one would read silently, I like listening to music while I do. And seeing as the OST of ‘The Untamed’ sounds really nice, I listened to it while reading both the manhua and novel when I could.

This one brought out the BL elements that were missing from the first 2. They gave Wei Ying and Lan Zhan a lot of kissing or just straight up affectionate scenes which I think ties in with the general theming of the original novel more.

As this one is probably the closest of the adaptations to the original, it’s the least confusing to read, although that might’ve been influenced by my experiencing the story for the third time at this point. I say that, however, there were many story elements that weren’t present in either one prior to this.

Examples this can be seen with their collecting of body parts that belonged to the former Nie Sect Leader. In ‘The Untamed’ they find the sword spirit which guides them through the rest of the story. In the Donghua adaptation, they get the arm, but also get the head of the the Jin with the hundred holes curse which was an original addition. Here, they get the arm from Mo Manor, find the other one then find the torso and so on before finding the head in Jin GuangYao’s possession.

The flashbacks in this version were also executed really well, in my opinion, as it doesn’t feel super confusing while reading it and it gives just enough information to help the events unfold. It also gives us a chance to see how much of an ass(sorry) Wei Ying was when he was the Yiling Patriach from his own perspective as well as give us a moment of WangXian in the middle of all that chaos.

Novel

Here’s a picture of gay rabbits for everyone.

At this point, I was switching between the novel and the Manhua to read whichever one I wanted at any given time which might have blurred my sense of what belonged in each one so I’ll try my best to make sure.

Since this one is the original source material, it was clear from the get go that this will be the one with the least confusing version of events and the most amount of detail.

I was surprised on how close the manhua and ‘The Untamed’ was to the novel. Although, the former condensed the mystery to fit within the timeframe while the latter hasn’t finished just yet.

Personally, I like this author, and will probably read more of her works further down the line. Even though the version I read was in english, I still could feel the meaning behind certain aspects which I think shows her skill as an author.

The novel clearly shows the mischief that goes through Wei Ying’s head and their gradual (I say gradual but I think Lan Zhan just snapped) change of attitudes towards each other.

Arc One- Mo Manor

Past here I’ll break down the first arc of each one because I think all of them did it in relatively different ways. Be warned for spoilers if you haven’t watched or read all of them.

The Untamed (2019)

Out of all of these versions, this one definitely had me scratching my head in confusion the most even after watching it a second time once I finished the entire show.

As the only version that had the curse issued at the start as a moving factor of the story as well as the Yin Iron which was specifically made for this version, it didn’t explain enough at the start.

There were many things I could say were wrong about this beginning, from starting at a flashback to not properly introducing us to our characters but the biggest problem in my mind was the lack of explanation at the present.

Like I mentioned, starting at a flashback is a terrible idea as it gives the viewer high expectations only for it to be crushed the second it ends. Here, it shows a small portion of the battle at the Nightless City without much context then it quickly changes to 16 years later with a seemingly random group of people.

Another issue is the amount of useless characters who were introduced. In the other versions, there were only 2 Lan disciples who were given names and were introduced properly while here there were more than I want to count. Add to that the one telling stories about the YiLing Patriarch and the weird guy walking around with a flag, and you got yourself total confusion.

Donghua

This one was slightly less confusing to watch. As it starts with a clip of Wei Ying commanding corpses which matches the overall feel of the donghua. The rumors that he died stretched over the time skip and we meet this version of Mo Xuanyu who is caked with make up, whether or not he was a cut-sleeve (gay) in this version, I forgot.

It fully explains the curse and instead of having a couple of Lan disciples just standing there watching, we get to focus on the 2 important ones, Lan Sizhui and Lan JiYing. It gives us a slightly deeper insight into Wei Ying’s mind, as he states ‘you got the wrong one,’ just after being reincarnated, indicating that he isn’t as vicious as painted by the first few minutes of the show. Like the other versions, they also show how he considers the cons of using his demonic abilities and that Sizhui would probably tell on him to Lan Zhan, meaning that Sizhui was a keen, observant young man.

Manhua and the Novel

As for the introductions, these two were very similar. Both have the rumors of the Yiling Patriarch across the screen as we get further down the story and meet our main character.

It gets the details from the Donghua adaptation and mixes it with more information to create a more detailed account of what was happening, also making this Wei Ying seem smarter compared to his counterparts in other versions. He also hesitates more on showing his abilities, knowing that he’s going to be caught if he does.

Final Thoughts

As of writing this, I’m only halfway through the novel but it covers the portion until where the manhua is currently at. I would finish reading it before posting this but it would take too long and probably make this post even longer than it currently is, which isn’t such a good idea. If I had much more patience and effort I would really like to break down each arc and their differences from one another but I can’t be bothered right now. (Sorry)

I can safely say that in terms of adaptations, ‘The Untamed’ is relatively close to the novel, albeit a very condensed version. As flashback filled as it is, it wasn’t very confusing to watch past the first two episodes.

The Donghua adaptation takes several liberties, going more of an action oriented route instead of the calmer more, I wouldn’t say love but character oriented novel.

The manhua is definitely the closest to the novel, so if you really don’t want to read a lot of words, and I mean a lot of words, then go ahead and read it.

What else do I have to say...if you’re new to the story, welcome, if you’re a veteran who’s been here longer than me, sorry for taking up space on your feed. And congrats for making it to the end.

#the untamed #mo dao zu shi #manhua #donghua #cdrama #wei wuxian #lan wangji #wei ying #lan zhan #fujoshi #comparisons #mdzs #wangxian #yiling patriarch #yiling lao zu #hanguang jun

48 notes · View notes

paradife-loft · 3 years

Note

wh.. when did wwx make his enemies eat their own flesh and fight the reanimated bodies of their loved ones ?? in the novel ?

Aaahhhh, anon, I hope you’ll forgive me for saying that, even knowing what this ask is in response to, seeing it pop up in my inbox did make me laugh XD Not in a bad way! It was simply very unexpected, and also very specific. So thank you for brightening my day! <3

(For context, for everyone else watching along at home - mentions of WWX doing those things came up in this thread, re: MDZS’s general moral greyness.)

But, okay, getting to the point, yes, those events are details taken from the novel! Specifically, I would say they’re things that were... pretty heavily implied, or are reasonable conclusions to draw based on the surrounding context, rather than being literally explicitly stated in the novel? But still.

The bit about making people fight the reanimated dead bodies of people they knew and cared about, I believe is a reference to the battle at the Pledge Conference at Nightless City, and perhaps also the Sunshot campaign in general. I looked to see if I could find an exact quote detailing this, but I was unsuccessful going through the most immediately relevant chapters I can think of, so I’m not sure if the topic is directly addressed ever in the book? (If anybody has a textual source for this part, lmk and I’ll edit to add it in!)

But in any case, even if it’s not stated directly in the text, I’d say it’s at least a reasonable-supposition-become-fanon due to a couple reasons. First, the fact that at the Pledge Conference battle, Wei Wuxian raises a bunch of corpses straight from the ground the other sects are all standing on - as this was the site of the last major Sunshot Campaign battle just a few years ago, presumably some portion of those dead would be members of the non-Wen sects who the present Pledge Conference attendees would have known. Second, I think people tend to figure that, since he’s fighting during both the Pledge Conference and the Sunshot campaign by raising and directing armies of reanimated corpses, it would make plenty of sense tactically for him to add the people immediately killed in any one battle into the ranks of his forces as well - leading to his enemies having to fight against members of their own sect who’d only just been cut down a few moments ago.

(Admittedly, until/unless someone points me to a specifically contradictory part of the text on this bit, I do think it’s fair if you don’t necessarily buy either of those explanations, for logistical reasons, emotional preferences, whatever, and don’t include that as a part of your interpretation of events &/or the character. YMMV! MXTX is certainly not very detailed when it comes to descriptions of what’s actually happening during battles, so I think there’s for sure room for different headcanons.)

That aside, the other piece, “making his enemies eat their own flesh,” does actually have much stronger specific textual support - it’s pretty heavily implied as part of how Wei Wuxian was torturing Wen Chao after he left the Burial Mounds for his bloody revenge rampage! (Relevant quotes from the book under the cut for length and gore.)

From chapter 61 (ExR translation):

After Wen ZhuLiu finished applying the ointment, he took out a few buns from his lapel and put one in his hand, “Eat. We’ll continue after you finish.”

With shaking hands, Wen Chao cupped it in his hands and took a bite out of it. Seeing this, Jiang Cheng remembered what a plight he and Wei WuXian were in the day when they fled. The didn’t even have any food. Such a situation was karma indeed!

Heart filled with joy, the corners of his curled lifted and he broke into mad but soundless laughter.

Suddenly, Wen Chao looked as if he had bitten something that caused him react with such a petrified expression. He threw the bun away and screamed, “I’m not eating meat! I’m not! I’m not! I’m not eating meat!”

Wen ZhuLiu passed him another one, “This one isn’t meat.”

Wen Chao, “I’m not eating it! Take it away! Get lost! I want to find my dad. When can we get back to my dad?!”

And then a bit later, in chapter 62:

He walked a few steps nearer and kicked into a white object by his foot. He looked down. It was the meat bun that Wen Chao had tossed away.

Wei WuXian raised a brow, “What, you’re a picky eater?”

Wen Chao fell from his stool, screeching, “I’m not eating it! I’m not eating it! I’m not eating it!”

As he bawled, he crawled on the ground with his finger-less hands. The long black cape slid down the lower half of his body, revealing his legs. The two legs dangled from his torso as if they were burdensome accessories. Even wrapped within bandages, they were still unusually thin. Due to his violent movements, the bandages stretched out to form gaps. Inside were ghastly white bones, crimson blood and strands of flesh still hanging from them.

All of the flesh on his legs had been sliced off, piece by piece. And, likely… all of the flesh had been eaten by himself!

Wen Chao’s sharp screams echoed within the empty courier station. Wei WuXian looked as though he didn’t hear anything. Lifting up the hem of his robe, he sat down at another table.

So yeah. If we’re quibbling, it’s also not stated directly that Wei Wuxian forced him to do this, but like.... the snark on WWX’s part, combined with the scant likelihood of Wen Chao eating his own flayed flesh for some reason that didn’t involve force/mind control/etc..... it seems fairly clear to me what conclusion we’re supposed to draw.

...Though also I think fairly clearly, this is not something that we’re supposed to take Wei Wuxian as doing on the regular, or even more than once, for that matter. It’s a pretty special Wen Chao Fuck You Specifically deal.

So yeah! A general theme of MDZS the novel, especially compared to The Untamed: Has A Lot More Visceral Body-Related Horror Going On, Especially Where Wei Wuxian Is Concerned. Thanks for the ask! :D

#ask a James #MDZS #Wei Wuxian #rambling #anonymous #Anonymous

22 notes · View notes

missholland · 4 years

Text

Lan Wangji (mostly, his love)

LAN ZHAN! I read somewhere that this was said 102 times by Wei Wuxian in The Untamed. It feels like an understatement, cause I’ve watched the show so many times now I could hear ‘Lan Zhan’ being called in my sleep...

My first time watching the drama, I was full on Team Xianxian. I mean, who would not be? He’s the central character of the story, he’s the first thing you see within the first few seconds of episode 1, and who could resist his sunflower aura? I was not into Lan Wangji at all. I remember this clearly because I just found an old Instagram story in my Archive on the day I first watched this show: a screenshot of Wangji’s face in episode 3 and my caption was: ‘OMG how could Wei sunshine fall in love with this dry and boring man?’. And just like how Wangji eventually swallowed all of the statements he had made about the young Wei Wuxian (’I don’t touch other people’, ‘We’re not close’, etc.), I am not the same person on that fateful day tuning in the first episode on Netflix. I am now Team Hanguang-Jun through and through!

What I’ve been enjoying so much these days is watching random earlier/later episodes just to compare how Wangji’s attitude changed toward Wei Wuxian over 16 years-ish. It’s probably so obvious for everyone that he definitely falls in love first, even when the drama purposely made their early relationship a lot more intense comparing to the novel i.e. showing Wei Wuxian somewhat feeling the same way about Wangji in his first life, with the constant flirting and mutual pining (don’t even get me started...). Now that I kinda understand what the character is like, it makes a lot of sense the way he processed his feelings for Wuxian in his youth. I wonder how different he would have reacted without the push from the best brother/wingman in the cultivation world - Lan Xichen. Sure, Jiang Cheng had a lot to say about this too, but mostly out of a slight envy (I reckon) over Wuxian’s new subject of desire. But Lan Xichen sees through his brother, and has been pretty much WangXian fanclub admin since day 1. I don’t have a brother, but man, I wish Lan Xichen could be mine.

In my humble opinion, the fact that we were given 3 versions of Wei Wuxian throughout the series kinda gifts us 3 versions of Lan Wangji too in a way - the straight face, the confused heart, and the national boyfriend/husband. Considering the number of times I rewatched the latter half of the series i.e. episode 33 onward, I just want to write down all of my thoughts about the national boyfriend/husband Lan Wangji, and not just because that version seems to have the most lines comparing to the other two.

There are several details that were not explained much in the series (although shown on screen) so I have to read from the novel later on. But oh my god, the stuff I found... I never realized that the scene before Lan Wangji went to Mo’s manor where his guqin was playing behind him standing on the balcony referred to how he used Inquiry to find Wuxian. What Jiang Cheng said to him about having gone to a lot of places for 16 years and searching for someone completely went over my head in the first watch, and imagine how I scratched my brain revisiting that part. That plus ‘oh I’ve never seen you at a cultivation conference before’ in episode 41 - my goodness, because he was spending ALL of his time LOOKING FOR Wei Wuxian.

Another thing I hope would have been addressed in the series was the hot iron mark on his chest. I thought the story of him drinking wine and giving himself a mark identical to Wuxian’s was the prime work of a broken heart. He must have thought about their conversation in Xuanwu cave, about the mark staying on his skin forever and how Wuxian was convinced Mianmian would never forget him. Was that how Wangji was making a point of never forgetting Wei Wuxian? If that scene made into the drama, I would have thought Wangji’s character song Buwang to be play in the background. The lyrics fit the situation so much.

Personally, everything from episode 33 onward was perfection for me, finally getting to see Wangji embrace his feelings and ACT ON THEM toward the romance-blind idiot Wei Wuxian (yes, he totally is). All the caring touches and details played out so astonishingly. One of my favourite (which doesn’t seem to be a popular one since I have not seen many gifs of it on Tumblr) was when, after interrogating Huaisang, Wangji comfortably moved over the other side of the table and picked up Wuxian’s left leg to CLEAN THE EVIL SPELL - think of the level of intimacy this act is! Although that came after the romantic piggyback under the moonlight, I thought that speaks volume for someone who doesn’t even physically interact with his family members, and serves as a great follow-up right after he, again comfortably, pulled up Wuxian’s trousers to check his leg.

What I thought was always presented so beautifully is every time Wangji serves Wuxian liquor. The way he carefully picks up his sleeve, prepares the cup (I know they’re probably not called ‘cups’ but I can’t find another word), pours the liquor and slides it over to his partner is so well demonstrated and shows how much he wants to properly take care of Wuxian. Would you put so much effort in such a tiny mundane act if you’re not doing it for the most important person in your life?

In a way, I feel like everything he does is making up for what he could not do the past 16 years, including remembering so many tiny details and keeping all sort of Wuxian-related things. My favourite Wangji keepsake moment, despite being a very short one, is the butterfly talisman at Yunping City which he gave to Wuxian to rescue Wen Ning. I don’t know why that moment makes me really really happy, probably because that was one of the earliest items Wangji could have kept hold of from Wuxian’s. That tells us how way long before he was developing feelings toward this little rebel. Not to mention, we did see Wangji even use this very talisman in episode 11 when he encountered Wen Chao on his way back to Cloud Recesses.

Yes, the ‘I knew he was Wei Ying all along’ while having all the swords pointed at you is highly pivotal as it’s basically the censored version of ‘I love you’. BUT, the moment all leading cultivators of all major and minor clans ran to Burial Mounds just to witness Lan Wangji standing proudly without flinch on the other side with Wei Wuxian makes me appreciate that whole arc a lot more than the big revelation in the last 3 episodes. Wangji ignoring his own Grand Master, Wuxian once again standing against every single person in the cultivation world but with so much confidence this time around - to me, is beyond satisfying. I love this arc so much so I wrote a separate piece about episode 44-45 - if you’re interested in more of my random thoughts, feel free to have a read here.

Thinking about all this, I’m absolutely in awe of how protective national boyfriend Wangji is to Wei Wuxian even before knowing he lost his golden core. They either have insanely accurate GPS, or just really good telepathy. Wangji’s constant attention to his partner (without having to verbally find out where he is) blows my mind every time. Remember how proud Wei Wuxian was having Lan Wangji come out just in time to fight Xue Yang at Coffin Town? That’s how much Wangji’s love and trust empowers Wuxian and makes him so so so secured, even when everyone was walking around in the fog hiding from the most notorious killer and his puppets.

The one detail that pushed me over the edge completely (thanks a lot Lan Xichen) was the story of Wangji’s mom. Oh my god, baby Wangji sitting in the snow really messes with my head. I cannot believe it took 40 something episodes for us to learn about Wangji’s emotionally damaged upbringing and what shapes him into a stubborn lovebird as we know today. It adds A LOT more context and sadness to his famous phrase ‘bring a man back to Cloud Recesses and hide him’, as well as Lan Qiren’s statement ‘have you not learned from your father’s lesson’. I revisit the ‘bring back and hide him’ scene with a completely new perspective and can sense Wangji’s pain and confusion that Xichen described. The desperation in that statement of Wangji was a lot heavier in my eyes now that I understand the back story. If I were Wei Wuxian listening to all of that from Lan Xichen, I would probably have a meltdown right there at the doorsteps of the Silence Room.

Now we all know the source of inspiration of the infamous ‘I want to bring a man to Cloud Recesses. Bring him back and hide him’ in episode 25:

So after all of Xichen’s effort in telling Wuxian how Wangji actually feels about him through the tear-jerker story about their parents, Wei Wuxian STILL asked Lan Wangji WHY he was willing to seal Bichen and his own spiritual power so that Jin Guangyao would not hurt him. This dense man, of course, brought up the guilt card i.e. ‘Oh you don’t owe me anything’. I mean COME ON NOW YILING PATRIARCH! CAN YOU ACTUALLY BE THAT OBLIVIOUS WHEN IT COMES TO THE MAN THAT TOOK 300 LASHES ON HIS BACK FOR PROTECTING YOUR LEGACY?

I know it went the other way in the novel, where the big confession happened. Maybe a bite from Fairy could do you some good, or just talk to Lan Xichen some more and then you can start appreciating your soulmate the way he deserves.

The silver lining after being deprived of an epic love confession is everything that happened in episode 50. It might have not been spelling-it-out clear as in ‘I love you’ ‘I love you too’ because of the government censorship, but it’s easily the most obvious yet emotional type of ending the production team has worked to hard to deliver. If you are still having trouble processing the allegedly ‘ambiguous’ finale, I can help with that - here. Just a heads up: it’s a happy ending.

Good to know Wei Wuxian has the rest of his life making up to Lan Wangji. Everyday means everyday, because Wangji deserves THAT much!

#wei wuxian #wei ying #lan zhan #lan wangji #hanguang jun #the untamed #mo dao zu shi #chen qing ling #gusu lan #character analysis #thoughts #yiling patriarch #yiling laozu #xiao zhan #wang yibo #lan xichen

172 notes · View notes