#for shock value and BYG

[transpidergwen]

Been thinking very hard about Charly's sacrifice and how that relates to Bury Your Gays. I want to preface everything with YMMV and it's completely valid if you're upset. In my opinion, Charly's death worked.

BYG is a set of tropes: when a characters's death is for shock value with little to no long term impact. Usually their death isn't about them and they have no agency in it, it's purpose is to inflict pain on their love interest (a main character) or to motivate another character, often for only a few episodes, often a straight man. There is also the element of creator bias, when they are aware how much that character/that relationship means to the audience and either ignorantly or maliciously choose to inflict the pain of killing them anyway. Arrow, The 100, Person of Interest, ST: Discovery, Supernatural and Killing Eve are the ones I'm most familiar with, but there are hundreds of others. Charly's death fits none of those criteria.

Charly had agency in her sacrifice. It wasn't a stray bullet, it wasn't pointless; she saved the galaxy and prevented genocide. Her decision was a reflection of her devotion to the ideals of the Union, even if she felt conflicted. The belief that all life has value, that even if it's your enemy and you have every reason to hate them, *genocide is always wrong*. That's what Charly decided. That was her story and her choice, no one else's. Consequently her actions have changed the course of the entire central storyline for the show. Her sacrifice *mattered*.

Contrast that with the Orville's Thursday counterpart, Strange New Worlds, which also killed a minority character in episode 9. It was pointless and he had no agency in it. A shock value death after the stakes of the episode had already resolved. It added nothing to the episode or the overall narrative. He wasn't even mentioned in the subsequent finale; he was disposable. In a lackluster and rushed funeral scene he got a short by the numbers speech about how he helped Uhura find herself, because his death wasn't about him.

Or go back a few years to another Trek when Discovery killed Hugh at the height of BYGs. Another pointless, shock value death that accomplished nothing except making Paul miserable.

The Orville has built up to this moment for three seasons. The episode was a culmination of every major storyline for the show, and the paradigm of the story has permanently changed because of Charly's actions. It's a tricky business killing any character in your story. It has to feel both too soon and inevitable, and making sure it matters to the narrative is something the majority of shows fail to do. This counts ten fold for queer characters. The Orville is a rare example that has met that threshold for me. To write off Charly's sacrifice as BYG is to imply that it didn't matter, and it did.

#BYG is still a very big issue in media right now #but it's rectangles and squares #not every queer death falls into those tropes and if we say they do then it loses all meaning #overall I don't think we're at a point where queer characters should be killed #but I think it's important to recognize the difference between when it's done well and when it's not #anyway that's my two cents #the orville #the orville new horizons #the orville: new horizons #the orville spoilers #star trek: strange new worlds spoilers #the orville 3x09 #charly burke #my angry lesbian saved the world

[nyaruhodou]

its shocking to me how some people dont understand what makes the Bury Your Gays trope bad. its bc those characters are getting removed from the narrative entirely and their deaths are often used as cheap shock value.

this does not apply to media where the queer character is "dead" but still part of the narrative. like, lily from zombieland saga is not BYG just bc shes dead. literally all of them are dead thats the point. she is still active in the narrative and functionally alive. calling zls a bury your gays show is just bizarre and wrong!

and the same applies to TAZ balance with lup. like sure shes "dead" but she is still part of the narrative and gets a happy ending just like everybody else! and hurley and sloan die at the end of petals to the metal, but that was the culmination of a tragic arc for them, was thematically fitting, ANDDDDDD they come back too as dryads!!!!

#yes these are real opinions that i have seen btw.

[booasaur]

Yay! You're back giffing and one of my fave WLW pairings to boot. It's as if you read my mind. Not generally happy with the show either but I will take these two alive and together and count my blessings.

I dunno if I'm back, I said that the last time I giffed a couple of things and then immediately skedaddled again. But since I only went off to reread the same old fics for that older couple I'd mentioned (in the tags here) and I've run out of content for them, I suppose I maaaay come back to ole Tumblr. It was really interesting being away from it, though, and other social media. I felt like I was missing out on news and goings on but also...relieved about it? At least temporarily. Am I back refreshed and raring to go? We'll see. :o

But yes! Maeve/Elena! I mean, talk about doing so much with not a lot, lol. I went back and rewatched their scenes after the finale yesterday and there weren't many! But Maeve being a known character and Nicola Correia-Damude making Elena feel like this real person in Maeve's life, and the whole history of them, already an ex back in season 1, and then their almost attempt in s2, you really wanted them to make it and then against all odds they did!

There's a lot that can be said about their place on the show and Maeve's treatment overall, about the show overall, how it doesn't really challenge or subvert things, that they couldn't think of what to do with a bi woman and wrote her off but a lot of shows would have gone in the complete opposite direction. It's just too tempting for a lot of writers, even in this post-Lexa BYG-aware world, to think they can do it in a way that transcends the trope's stigma, even more so for shows that thrive on shock value. And perhaps they may still do it later, but for now, I’ll enjoy this sweet ending, knowing it’s what both Maeve and Elena have wanted for so long.

#trying to remember how to talk about media lol #replies #femslash related stuff #sent on 20220708 #Anonymous #5 #the boys #the boys spoilers #the boys 3x08 #elena x maeve

[loving-villanelle]

Hey, do you have any advice on how to write to the BBC about KE? I wanna help but I'm useless at writing emails 😅

I'll include my email below. Please feel free to use as inspiration, but I ask that you don't just copy and paste. 1) I think it's important for people to get their own thoughts/feelings on the matter out and 2) I don't want us sending them form letters, they should be unique. But again, feel free to use it for some ideas!

I am reaching out to express concerns I have about the Killing Eve series finale. I am deeply troubled by the fact that a groundbreaking series like Killing Eve perpetuated the harmful trope of BYG. What is most frustrating is that this was a well-executed finale centered around the main characters until they decided to pull one of the most disgusting sequences I’ve ever seen and dared to call it art. Every detail of this ending was downright cruel. Tragedy for tragedy’s sake is not good storytelling. Sad endings can have heart, and this was unoriginal, brutal and crushingly vile. What’s even more troubling are the comments from the producer and show runner after the fact, describing this death as a “rebirth”, as though Villanelle's death was justified and the love between herself and Eve was a sin that needed to be absolved.

To be clear, no one is saying that it is not possible to write the death of a queer character, but it takes a lot of care and respect and must be done in a way that shows it is necessary to the story. An out of nowhere sniper attack that resulted in Villanelle being shot in the arms of the woman she loves and Eve screaming in agony as she watches her bullet ridden, bloody body disappear into the abyss served no purpose other than gross shock value. It’s not acceptable to FINALLY let two queer characters experience happiness, only to immediately kill one of them. It’s the same old song and dance of queer women find happiness then immediately suffer a horrific fate. This is a tired and harmful trope that has been perpetuated for far too long. It is astounding to me that we are still having this conversation in 2022. There was no victory in this death, only victimization. There was no meaning, only shock value.

The final minutes of the finale were heartless and used a harmful and tired trope carelessly. It was a slap in the face to Jodie Comer and Sandra Oh, who poured their hearts and souls into these characters and through their incredible talent built a devoted fanbase, it was a slap in the face to the characters of Villanelle and Eve, whose 4 season journey was discarded and thrown to the side like it meant nothing, and it was a slap in the face to the fanbase, who have spent years supporting the show and are partially responsible for it’s success. This has been traumatic for the queer community given the long history of meaningless violence committed against queer characters, who right after finding happiness end up losing their life only moments later. However, the backlash against the finale goes beyond the queer community. It is widespread across all demographics, and with Killing Eve being an international show, it is also worldwide.

This is unacceptable and the fact that it has been a week with zero comment from Laura Neal, Sally Woodward Gentle, AMC, or BBC America is just as unacceptable. You are under no obligation to pander to audiences, but you do have an obligation to support responsible storytelling and this was anything but that. You have lost my business until you take a firm stand and condemn Killing Eve for perpetuating the harmful (and TIRED) BYG trope. Until AMC and it's networks does this, I will be encouraging everyone I know to cancel their subscriptions and stay away from any AMC/BBC productions. Please take the first step and do the right thing by speaking out and FIX THIS. Condemn this harmful trope and hold Killing Eve/Sid Gentle Films accountable.

Thank you.

#killing eve #ke #villaneve #villanelle

[rwby-party]

the staff theory is awesome and cool and I really wish it happened but also like

For me that theory was shot out of the water when the fact that this volume lasts two fucking days was mentioned

despite how much I hate the fact that they did that I still held out hope that they'd do it but after the latest ep with how Qrow basically said it was about the semblance more than anything was frustrating

especially when they tried to relate his semblance to Robyns. It was clunky at best. No, having a semblance that lets yo uknow if someone's telling the truth or not doesn't equate to everyone in your life being miserable or dying because you have a bad luck semblance

not everyone has secrets to keep but everyon can die

and like. Fucking Qrow and Clover never had that moment. They had brief little hints to it but they never got to talk about their semblances and how it affects their lives, which is way more easier to compare than the fucking lie dectector semblance

#I mean this with only a little shade to Robyn #Cuz she instigated shit in the first place then passed tf after landing on her head JFKLSD:FJSKDL:FJfka #rwby 8 #rwby 8 spoilers #negative #they fucking had gold with Clover and Qrow's relationship rather romantic or not and they squandered it #for shock value and BYG

[grendelsmilf]

if romeo & juliet were released today tumblr kids would not know it even existed because they only care about musicals and have never read or gone to see a single play in their entire lives

#also they would claim that mercutio was only killed off for shock value his death was so pointless classic BYG #o

[space--turbulence]

Hi characters don’t have to be confirmed LGBTQ+ for killing them off to be Burying Your Gays this has been a PSA.

#fair game #clover ebi #rwby s7 spoilers #rwby spoilers #rwby s7 #its BYG when you kill your queer for SHOCK VALUE #and that is exactly what happened

[angieschiffahoi]

One day I will write an essay on how gay characters shouldn’t be always unkillable and untouchable, especially in stories where death is one of the main protagonists, and how even in death they should be treated like straight characters (that means no publicity stunts, no pointless deaths, no deaths as punishment for being gay, pure shock value, death to further the growth of straight character best friend etc.), but that also means that in a horror drama gay characters should be affected by death in the same capacity as straight characters otherwise there would be no stakes involved and so that means that there is a difference between the BYG trope and killing a character who happens to be gay.  BUT today is not the day. 

I just want to cry over the fact that Mike Flanagan managed to bring back my love for horror after 15 years. 

#i knew there would be people yelling but but but BYG! #haunting of bly manor #the haunting of bly manor #angie rants #ignore #this site is so black and white #people see one bad thing and think 'oh so THE OPPOSITE AND ONLY THE OPPOSITE IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO' and that is how #creators decide to not even try anymore because they're always going to get it wrong #but this is not the case #and i can write a full lenght essay on why dani's death wasn't byg #but subverted that trope a few times before enacting it in poetic and respectful way #dani clayton #hobm spoilers #spoilers #how many times have we seen a woman be killed to further the main male protagonists story? or for shock value? #how many women are killed in a respectful way in movies? #why should gays be always unkillable? why should they always have a happy ending? #this takes something for lgbtq+ who like drama and horror and death storylines #why can we recognize when a woman is killed respectfully but not when gays are without yelling BYG ! Homophobia! problemaTIC!

[lucyflawless]

Sorry for reblogging all the depressing shit guys. 

I am so happy we got to see a few moments of them happy together. The kiss was one of the best wlw kisses I’ve seen on TV. The little camper van road trip scenes. Eve finally being honest about her feelings whilst officiating a gay wedding. Seeing Villanelle’s face light up when she heard her...

But it did not have to end that way. It shouldn’t have. I’m so tired of seeing beloved characters needlessly die for shock value. And like not to bring up the BYG trope, and you can disgaree that it was, but it really is getting tiring seeing so fucking many gay characters in TV shows ending up dead. And it would be fine if it felt like it added something to the story, but to me, it didn’t. It was for shock value... I don’t think I expected a happy ending, but I would have appreciated one that didn’t feel just... lazy.

This whole season never felt like the final one. It felt rushed and like precious time was being wasted from start to finish. 

I still adore this show and I always will. But I will never watch the last 5 minutes ever again. I refuse to acknowledge it as canon. The least they could have done is honor the original source material. But no, instead we got some shitty shock value death to (presumably) set up a stupid spin-off that literally no one asked for. 

I’m just disappointed. 

Justice for Villaneve. They deserved better than that. They really did. 

#killing eve #killing eve spoilers #youre all welcome to disagree with me #but to me those last few moments were pointless needless and just traumatic tbh #if u liked the ending im happy for you #but i think it was just lazy writing #and shock value is no longer shocking its just disappointing

[morerevenge]

Preparing myself for Killing Eve finale I rewatched Lexa's death to remember two things:

1. A death for shock value isn't good if it doesn't serve anything to the plot or if there is no build up for it.

2. The most annoying thing is tv writers bragging about how that decisión was so clever like if it wasn't the most predictable thing ever since it has been done many times.

And that's it, that are the reasons I am going to be mad at Killing Eve if they kill one or both of them, I won't call it queerbaiting or BYG because this is has nothing to do with their sexuality this is just because it would be a shitty finale.

I didn't start watching killing Eve expecting a happy ending but at this point Eve and Villanelle dying won't serve for any clousure of the plot or their journey, even if the writers wanted to make us thing there is more than villaneve the 12 storyline isn't develop enough and they already kill two of the main of them (Helene and Lars) so that storyline not going to end and we probably see them dying at the hands of some random character or maybe we will never know who did it.

This is probably the last thing I write before I go hide to avoid spoilers, so this my last prediction: Villanelle and Eve will try to take down the 12 and they will think they success when they are finally having some moment alone the wil get shot and die. End.

And writers and producers will give interviews saying how there was no way of a happy ending and how they wanted to stay true to the story.

This won't be it. That would be a shitty finale and we all know it.

#killing eve #killing eve spoilers #long post

[dastardlydandelion]

my thoughts on fear street 1666 now that i finished scrubbing all the toilets, got to go home and watch it

holy shit. that movie. wow. 

it wasn’t as fun as the other two. didn’t employ the same campy tropes. didn’t present itself in a flourish of period typical style. while i enjoyed the first two films paying homage to classic horror tropes and making the most of the stylish side of their respective environments, i am v grateful and relieved that 1666 *wasn’t* as fun as the other two and actually presented the horror of puritan fanaticism and witch accusations more srsly. imo it portrayed that grave, twisting dread that the subject matter calls for. i appreciate that bc i think i would’ve been uncomfortable if they attempted to do smth more campy with the time period given what we already knew abt the circumstances of sarah’s death even before the film. 

more of me blathering on and on abt fear street 1666 under the cut: 

the twist actually worked on me this time. they actually got me on this one, u guys. i rly watched this franchise believing sarah fier was possessing ppl and wreaking her vengeance on the town, but this whole time it was the fuckin’ goodes. nick, i never liked u, i think ur more interesting than i did before before when u were a generic as generic gets asshole, so now ur somewhat more interesting but even bigger of an asshole than i gave u credit for. ur literally the worst asshole of assholes, ur a walking infected hemorrhoidal rectum of a human being. 

don’t get me wrong, i always thought sarah was going to be portrayed sympathetically. i never doubted that. my theory was that sarah was going to be a sympathetic villain. i thought 1666 would’ve revealed why she cursed shadyside. i figured she would’ve cursed her townsfolk for turning their backs on her, maybe, or hurting/killing hannah, or using her for her witchcraft and then getting angry if it backfired on them, or smth like that. i thought we were going to watch a story abt sarah’s descent into darkness and while she’d defo be a tragic villain, she rly would be the person behind the possessions...but it wasn’t even her. she and hannah were just vulnerable to the town’s suspicion and persecution bc they were queer women who didn’t behave the way society wanted them to behave. and they were blamed for evil actually wrought by heterosexual men in power, and when sarah realized there was no way out of it, she took the blame upon herself so hannah was spared and she cursed only the goode family?? 

THAT IS SO MUCH BETTER. FUCK. THAT IS SUCH A BETTER STORY. kudos to this trilogy for being more intelligent than it ever had to be, when it could’ve just skated on the notoriety of the fear street series, the style, and billing notable cast members. 

so yeh, i defo 100% appreciated the goode men from wealthy sunnyvale being revealed as the true villains. i actually got my wish of nick getting killed in the face. i love that sarah possessed deena to do it herself!!! and deena!! oh man, i love deena so much. she was wearing a homebrew vest to protect herself made of fear street novels + duct tape, u gotta love it. ig she wanted to prepare herself since sam stabbed her at the end of 1994. on that note, she’s v active in this film for someone who has a fresh abdominal stab wound and i mean, the situation defo calls for it, but i hope she remembered to properly dress it and take a couple ibuprofen or smth. shit, i’m gettin distracted again. okay!! 

i loved errything that went down in the mall. i adore that josh and adult ziggy got more time to shine. i was so! so! happy at martin’s inclusion on the action. he deserved that after the way nick treated him in 1994. our occupations are also p similar so i defo relate to martin on that front. i loved it all the neon and blacklight stuff at the mall. that part was v stylish, that was p cool. spraying the killers with the blood so they kill each other!! yes! that was perfect!! it was incredibly practical and enjoyable for me, as a gore fan, to watch. 

i liked the sticky note on the wall at the end from deena and josh’s dad, that he had a job interview. i wonder if this is bc the curse of shadyside has been lifted with the end of the goodes?? 

yk, i feel like now knowing what we know abt the actual evil, i gotta wonder how much re-watch value there is to be gleaned from this trilogy. for example, in 1978, nick liked ziggy and didn’t want her to die. he performed cpr on her even tho she’d been stabbed a fuck ton of times and tbvh, the chances of success of resuscitation depending on what exactly it is was ziggy succumbed to seem v slim. at first i attributed this to a suspension of disbelief bc this is fiction (and to be fair crazy do happen sometimes irl, ykw, sometimes reality can surprise u) BUT now i’m sittin here like...was the cpr successful bc nick’s deal with the devil gave him the power to do that?? did his bargaining of others’ souls and offering them up for possession grant him the ability to have some control in that situation somehow? at least more than a normal human being should?? idk. it’s a thought. 

what else, what else? 

i feel like outta the three, 1666 had the most tension overall. i was p gosh darn emo abt the relationships. deena and sam’s relationship i’ve cared abt since the beginning but the contrast of them getting the opportunity to have it and be together, in parallel to the way sarah and hannah’s ended just moves u. or, it moved me at least. sarah tells hannah they’ll go somewhere and kiss in broad daylight before kissing her in almost total darkness, and then the film ends on deena and sam kissing in the sun. i was also glad deena and josh’s sibling relationship got touched on a lil bit more. thought it was cute that she tried to cook for him and produced smth that just dead ass looks inedible. i also thought it was sweet that ziggy reunited with nurse lane. she can do that now, she can leave her house without fearing the return of the curse, and she deserves it. <3

i’m impressed with the trilogy overall. each movie easily could’ve been an r-rated goosebumps episode and imo all were certainly better than that. i feel like each film was better than the previous, but personally enjoyed each one. some things were p predictable but i think much of that is intentional. 1994 and 1978 were clearly paying homage to classic slashers and familiar horror tropes. i personally didn’t find the predictability off-putting bc i recognized what they were trying to do, and felt the quality in the other elements made up for it. i was genuinely shocked by the actual villain reveal, i personally didn’t predict that. again, i always thought sarah was going to be sympathetic and i never liked nick at all, but i didn’t suspect sarah was just. dead ass *not* going to be a villain or that he was going to be the big bad. 

really dug the style of these films. loved that we got an interracial lesbian couple who made it thru the trilogy without either the predatory lesbian trope or the byg trope happening. i liked most of the characters we got to know and the only character who *rly* grated on my nerves was the villain who got stabbed in the eye. 

gosh, i want more fear street movies!! if i had to pick one outta any of the slashers featured, i’d want to see ruby lane’s story. i would like to see this production team milking the most outta the environment in the 50s, the style of the 50s, music, and whatnot. i enjoyed nurse lane even tho she was super bad at murder, so it’d be cool to see her again and who she was before her daughter got possessed and killed 7 ppl. also, ruby sings when she kills?? 

that’s weird and creepy and neat. totally down for it. 

#fear street spoilers #fear street 1666 #fear street #sarah fier #deena johnson #nick goode #sam fraser #josh johnson #ziggy berman #ruby lane #nurse lane #martin p franklin #gosh u guys #i rly dug this movie #i rly dug the trilogy as a whole #i was hype to begin with but it exceeded by expectations #i want more

[fratboykate]

God, whenever someone shrilly screams about it being "Lexa all over again" I cringe and roll my eyes like...really? Do those idiots remember WHY Lexa was such a huge shitshow, WHY it it the final straw on the camel's back? And it wasn't just BYG. Do they remember show runners and writers ACTIVELY engaging a marginalized fandom (in several different ways, on several different media) to reassure them they weren't gonna traumatize them the very specific way they they'd always be traumatized, KNOWING all the while that haha, sike! We're traumatizing you exactly that way! Do they remember the literal SCORES of WLW character being killed off on shows across the board at the same time? (granted, not any singular shows fault but the general attitude of killing gays for shock value that season was clearly in the drinking water somewhere because that shit was uncanny with how that all timed out.) Do they remember the WRITER of "that" episode admitting that EVERYONE at the top knew about BYG and Lexa's overwhelmingly young queer fanbase, and yet the show runners still chose that direction? And then those same show runners in the aftermath, showing no remorse? Because it sounds like they weren't there for it at all. It sounds like they're just using her name for "clout" because they aren't getting the ending they wanted, and that's fucking gross.

Lexa MEANT something because of the confluence of SO many things, screaming her name at every poor turn a sapphic character gets just erodes her character's legacy into the boy who cried wolf. The more I see it, the more it pisses me off.

The way people conveniently forget...it's really interesting...

#lexa #100 #anonymous #answers

[fleabaged]

There’s one bury your gays death that never really bothered me and it was on Jane the Virgin when Luisa killed her lover Rose (don’t know if you’ve seen it) but that made absolute sense because Rose was this toxic presence in her life and every time she ran away with her she was happy until she felt possessed and controlled. In the end she just wanted to be free of her so she finally took action and freed herself. That can work when it’s justified, it does NOT when it’s purely for shock value.

Yes not every gay who dies is BYG (Jane the Virgin, I Care A Lot come to mind)

Literally in Laura Neal’s interview she says V dies so Eve can be rebirthed. That is textbook definition on the BYG definition: This trope is the presentation of deaths of LGBT characters where these characters are nominally able to be viewed as more expendable than their heterosexual counterparts.

Obviously Eve is not straight but V was her first queer love interest… it’s sooooo disgusting.

Tweets to help me out getting points across:

#asks #Ke spoilers #Ke watch

[orangeyouglad8]

Hey! How do you feel about the ending of the haunting of bly manor if youve seen it? Cause i felt that was kind of a bury your gays like killing eve but i dont think ive seen anyone say it at the time. Do you think its different?

It’s not BYG at all to me - Jamie and Dani build a whole life together, and we get to see glimpses of that. Because their life together is cut short, that is tragic and heartbreaking, but not out of the realm of the story and not immediately after they get together. It also aligns with the story being told and isn’t completely out of nowhere for shock value. So while it’s sad it’s not that trope at all for me.

The whole trajectory of Dani’s story also makes a lot of sense and in the end she chooses to sacrifice to end the curse and to protect the people she loves. Again- it’s heartbreakingly sad and I still think about it a lot. It’s haunting. It is supposed to be. And we see the last shot as a shot of love and protection with her hand on Jamie’s shoulder.

A queer woman dying onscreen doesn’t automatically fill the trope. A queer woman dying on screen minutes after acceptance, happiness, or reconciliation leading the audience to hope and buy in to the story is BYG. A queer woman dying on screen to provide shock or as a story point to fuel something else (the refrigerator trope) is also BYG.

If creators are openly courting us and asking for our support and trust and then cruelly inflicting unnecessary death on us, that is the definition of BYG.

[loving-villanelle]

Please sit down with your hot takes about how Killing Eve is not an example of BYG because we all should have expected a tragic ending due to the nature of the show. Literally everyone was prepared for and expecting the fact that one or both of these characters might die. While it’s obviously difficult to deal with the death of any character that you’ve connected with, this isn’t about Villanelle dying, it’s about the way they did it. To spend 35 minutes of this episode showing these characters finally finding their happiness, only to have it ripped away by a bullet in the span of less than 24 hours. Sound familiar? For the death to do nothing to move along the plot or further the story or serve any real purpose other than shock value. Sound familiar? I am exhausted seeing people bend over backwards trying to defend this show for killing Villanelle in the most vile and sadistic of ways and then say that we should’ve have expected it and that it doesn’t play into any pre-established tropes. Nothing about Villanelle’s death played into the the natural premise of the show. She didn’t die taking down the Twelve, she didn’t die in a high stakes situation, she didn’t die with any sort of purpose. Instead, she was shot in the arms of the woman that she loves right as she had gained her freedom and her happiness. There was no victory in her death, only victimization. There was no meaning, only shock value. If you want to argue that this isn’t BYG, fine maybe you’re right, because this is actually so much worse than BYG. This was a well established character that we spent 4 years investing in, that they spent 4 years growing and developing and while death was certainly a very real possibility for this character, not in this way. The Haunting of Bly Manor is a perfect example of a sapphic story that ended in tragedy, but is so beautiful because it actually had meaning. It served a purpose, it wasn’t wrapped up in hurried happiness, followed by unspeakable tragedy. It was a natural part of the story. This was not that. And every detail of this ending was downright cruel. Ignorance of a character’s queerness or a story’s queerness and the intricacies involved in that is not an excuse. This 2022 and I AM TIRED. Do fucking better. 

#sorry this probably is still not my most coherent thoughts but i'm trying to process all of this rn #and i'm so tired of still having to talk about this #villaneve #killing eve spoilers

[novelconcepts]

1/3 Hi. I finished Bly Manor in 2/3 days! And turned to tumblr, with endless scrolling for more text posts of this show! I stumbled across someone reblogged your tags (it’s the one Dani first grabbed Jamie’s hand) and I’m here for more of your thought on this show. I wonder if you would view it as a tragic love story? I’m sure we’ve all bawled our eyes out with the ending, but I don’t feel sad about their story.I’ve seen many may argue that this is a tragic love story or even the BYG trope.

2/3 But I have to Thanks Mike Flanagan for showing us the happiness of ‘one day at a time’ that of Dani and Jamie! They can easily time jumps five years later and not showing us any of their time together. But we kind of had that happy ending in away. To see them on the screen at the diner discuss winter time, Jamie’s confession at the flowers shop, the moving to the new house, and in the comfort of their bed, and the proposal!!! They gave us this! They showed us on SCREEN!!!

3/3 And I am beyond happy to see them in that domestic setting!! We rarely see this on screen! Like in Hill House, we know Theo and Trish moved and ended up together but we don’t see much of that domestic life!! We have to find shelter in fanfics and use our imagination!! Haha. So yes, I’m sad but also I’m not. Haha donno if that makes sense.

So, when I watched the first time. And they got through the scary ghost story with 45 minutes left in the show. I had the biggest sinking feeling. I was like “here we go. Here’s where it falls apart. This is gonna be devastating, Dani is going to be the new big bad and we’re gonna end on a horror note.” Which, okay, was stupid in the context of Flanagan’s shows. I know how Hill House ends. I know Flanagan specifically wrote AROUND horror tropes in the explicit interest of giving these people peace. But I’ve been gay in fandom a long time, I am used to people burying those lesbians deep.

And this show...doesn’t fit that trope for me. I had realized several episodes earlier that Carla was playing an older Jamie and that this was probably Flora’s wedding; the accents lined up enough and the story was clearly enough focused on the romance of the au pair and the gardener, so I was on board. And that meant that Jamie obviously didn’t die. So I relaxed just a little, and I let myself just sink into the final episode. And I expected it to just do what you said: skip around. Say “okay yeah, they left together and maybe got a little happiness at the beginning, and then Dani slowly went crazy and/or violent like Viola.”

Instead....instead we see a whole life. Because a whole life isn’t something you can parse out in blocks of “you get twenty years, you get fifty years, you get eighty years”. A life is one day at a time. Never knowing how many more are on the other side of the sunrise. Never knowing how far the road stretches. But you keep walking anyway, and if you’re in love, you keep your hand in theirs as you go. And you make travel plans knowing you might not see Christmas—but that you MIGHT. And you buy a flower shop to run together knowing it might go under—but it might also LAST. And you move house, and you bicker, and you make out and make up, and you reassure each other and go to bed smiling and kiss away the tears and you...live.

It never felt like a BYG story for me because they didn’t lose each other for shock value or because they were queer. They got a good 12-15 years together, and those years were happy. And then one of them died, and died on her own terms to save anyone else from being hurt or trapped in that glue, and the other is still in love. Still telling the story. And frankly, from that final shot, I’d argue that the thing that kept Dani going for so long was love—and when love keeps you going, and love keeps you alive in the hearts of your loved ones, you are not gone. Dani for me still loves Jamie, always. Is always there with and for her. And I can’t remember the last time I got to see my future—a gay woman living with and loving her wife—played out onscreen with such tenderness. Saying yeah, this ends. But it ends organically. It ends like all stories end. And it’s beautiful because of what was here while it went on.

#the haunting of bly manor #the haunting of bly manor spoilers #the haunting of meta #dani x jamie #again I know I keep saying it but it is still incredible to me how they gave us this #and I already should have trusted Flanagan from HH but now I REALLY trust him #at least in the context of these shows #so yes it makes me weep every time I think about it too long or watch that last episode #but what it’s saying is so wonderful and so much about living while you’re alive to do it #and I don’t find that tragic. I find it realistic. and hopeful.