Ruminations on boss monster SOUL power transfer and aging
So, uh. That one bit of Gerson dialogue. What did he mean by this???
Taken from Hushbugger's Undertale Dialogue Dump page on Github.
There are a few different headcanons/theories about how exactly this piece of lore should be interpreted – and, specifically, what its implications are regarding the children's growth rates in different scenarios. So, let's discuss it.
Personally, I'm REALLY not a big fan of the one that implies a boss monster whose parents die would be stuck as a child forever??? For instance, how would this theory of power transfer work with boss monster families that have 3+ children? Because like. Some couples having at least 3 children would be the only way for the population to to ever grow in size (unless we also headcanon that new boss monsters just spontaneously appear sometimes or something, which has absolutely no basis in canon lore). And by that logic, generations of this happening would eventually yield boss monsters who stop aging stupidly young. Not to mention, what about boss monster kids like Asriel, with no biological siblings? Would them getting both of their parents' SOUL power mean they go through super-puberty that turns them into double-mature adults??? So, yeah, not only would this all have pretty horrific implications regarding boss monster dating, but it'd also just be... really cursed worldbuilding that falls apart when you give it in any amount of serious thought. That's why I think it's a lot more likely that SOUL power transfer is simply that: a transfer of power.
I think Gerson's word choice is key here: "causing the child to grow" – rather than "mature", "age", or " develop" – "as the parents age" – as in, "into old age", becoming physically weaker due to giving up SOUL power.
I believe it's FAR more likely that, if a boss monster was orphaned, their growth would be stunted and their power would never reach its full potential – something more akin to malnutrition, rather than them literally being frozen in time; this would also happen, but to a lesser extent, to a boss monster who has to share their parents' SOUL power with more than one other sibling – and, inversely, a boss monster who's an only child would inherit both of their parents' power, growing far stronger than either of them separately by the time they become an adult.
This would also explain Asgore's absurdly high stats compared to Toriel's – like. ok. he has 8 times her total HP??? If we are to assume Asgore started out with similar stats to Toriel, plugging the numbers into the LV-based HP calculation formula the game uses for Frisk – 3/4 base HP + (1/4 base HP * LV) – gives us this equation: 330 + 110*LV = 3500. Solving for Asgore's hypothetical LV, then, gives us LV of roughly 29. Which might not sound that bad... until you realize the EXP required for getting to LV 19 is more than than all of the EXP it takes to get to LV 18 combined. Even assuming the EXP you get from killing just one human is equivalent to killing every monster in the Underground, while also assuming that the amount of EXP you need to level up no longer increases after you've reached LV 20 for some reason... it still wouldn't be enough to explain Asgore's dummy thicc HP bar after killing only 6 humans, if we are to assume his base HP is at all similar to that of Toriel. (Accounting for the possibility that monster history books lied, or at the very least didn't tell the full truth when stating that "not a single human SOUL was taken" during the war just leaves us with another problem: Toriel's also a veteran, and in fact seems a lot more comfortable with the idea of actively going to war as opposed to Asgore's approach of stalling for as long as possible, so if monsters actually were getting insane amounts of EXP by killing humans during the war, how come her stats are still so low? Killing even just a few humans would beef her up quite a bit; again, it's only once the numbers get higher that you see the sharp increase in EXP required to level up.)
I think Asgore was born into royalty, and Toriel married into it. Again: if a pair of boss monsters had only one child, that child would have the combined power of their 2 parents – now, let's suppose a family decided to do that for many generations.... with each new kid in such a family, the base power of the resulting offspring would grow more and more and more, wouldn't it? Perhaps one such family also has the means and prestige that allows them to easily find suitably strong partners for their kids, further increasing the rate at which the family's power would grow. (Also, the idea of Toriel originally being a commoner is further reinforced by the fact that the surname "Dreemurr" is confirmed to come from Asgore's side and, at least as far as we know, Toriel just... doesn't have her her own surname, as she switches to just going by "Toriel" after the two break up. Given that we only have about 3 examples of surnames within the Entirety Of The Underground, it appears that family names just aren't really a thing used within monster society, unless said family is really notable in some way).
...I may or may not be overthinking boss monster biology.
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I know that ‘Asgore and Gaster friendship/romance’ is really popular. But personally I find it kinda meh, mostly because that version of Gaster feels like a shared fandom oc. He’s a good character, he just doesn’t hit the parts of Gaster or Asgore that really appeal to me.
Gerson and Gaster friendship, though? Or Gerson, Gaster, and Asgore friendship? With Gerson’s implied meta-knowledge, awareness of the Deltarune and how you can’t fight outside a Fight in No Mercy, and Gaster specifically seeking out us in the Goner Survey? Gaster having a relationship with Gerson like Seam and Jevil maybe, where Gerson learns a bit about Gaster’s forbidden knowledge, about the laws of the world and how to cheat them just a little, and one day realizing that his friend has gone too far off the deep end and just vanished?
With Gaster mentioning creating a ‘brighter future’ with us, and Gerson saying that he and Asgore had agreed leaving the Underground wouldn’t do them any good? How about Gaster relentlessly seeking to improve monsterkind’s situation, contrasted by Gerson and Asgore’s more realistic mindsets of trying to make the best of what they have. The unrelenting optimist versus the mildly-depressed realists. Clashing idealisms. C’mon, people!
Gaster being Alphys’ predecessor in Undertale and Gerson being Alphys’ predecessor in Deltarune? Gaster meddling in Deltarune and realizing that this is the world where his friend saw the surface. This is the world where is friend is already dead. This is the world where his friend is so respected and admired and had a child. They’re friends but Gerson and Gaster can no longer coexist in the same world, ever again.
If the Knight is Alvin, Gaster and his friend’s child being on opposing sides of the conflict!
Gerson in Undertale realizing that his protege’s girlfriend is Gaster’s protege, and feeling a little pang at seeing the realist scientist and the relentless optimistic warrior, instead of the relentlessly optimistic scientist and the realist warrior.
Gaster and Gerson discussing dreams together? Gaster making turtle-skull shaped blasters because they’re friends? The Hammer of Justice Gerson who fought in the war and saw the worst of humankid, versus Gaster who specifically spent time searching for us humans and says it was so wonderful that we were looking for him too? C’mon, guys, this has to be SOMETHING.
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Undyne sat down, panting. She had pushed her 10-year-old body to its absolute limits, but she wasn’t willing to admit it.
“Undyne,” said Asgore, “I think you should drink some water. It’s important to stay hydrated!”
“WHAT?!” Undyne popped to her feet, the mere mention of a break enough to get her going again. “Hydration is for NERDS! I have more important stuff to do!!! I have to fight BAD GUYS!!!”
“You won’t be fighting any bad guys till your a few years older, and the best way to prepare yourself is by developing good habits,” soothed Asgore, opening his pack and taking out a water bottle. “Besides, you’re a fish monster. Hydration is uniquely important to your body structure, more so than most monsters.”
“NO WAY!!” replied Undyne, sticking out her tongue a bit and starting to run laps again. “I can keep going!!! SEE?!!”
“Undyne,” called Asgore, still calm but sounding very concerned “you’ll be great when you grow up, you will, but you’ll never be able to fight bad guys if you wreck yourself from exhaustion!” He laughed a little, nervously.
Undyne felt herself slow down, her legs suddenly feeling like jelly. That’s funny, she thought. I don’t WANT to stop!
And then she toppled to the ground, overcome with exhaustion. The last thing she heard before blacking out was Asgore’s terrified scream of “UNDYNE!!”
When she woke up, she was soaked all over, wrapped in a towel, with Asgore dribbling water slowly down her throat. “Oh,” she said–or, said it as well as she could with a cup at her lips and water in her mouth.
Asgore gave a huge sigh of relief. “Thank goodness, Undyne. I was so worried!” There was an edge of irritation in his voice.
Undyne was both impressed and ashamed at having made the most patient monster in the Underground mat at her. “I’m sorry…” she muttered.
Asgore sighed again, this time sounding more relieved. “That’s all right, Undyne. Just take this as a lesson in hydration.”
Undyne looked around. She was in Asgore’s kitchen, sitting on a towel. Asgore stood up and walked over to the hissing teakettle. Undyne got to her feet and began drying off. My clothes are all wet…Hopefully I stay long enough to get a little dryer, so Ms. Millison doesn’t find out. And Gerson is going to be worried, then laugh his head off! She was already annoyed at him and he hadn’t even done it yet.
After drying off for a while, Asgore had poured two teacups. “Would you like a cup of tea, Chara?”
Undyne stared, blinking. “Ummm…do you mean Undyne?” She laughed. He had forgotten her name!
But for some reason, Asgore didn’t say a word.
“Uh, Mr. Asgore, is something wrong?” Was he mad at her?
“Everything quite all right,” replied Asgore suddenly, handing her a teacup. “Now let me try again: Would you like a cup of tea, Undyne dear?”
Undyne giggled. “Sure!” He looks lost in thought. She couldn’t shake the feeling that something was wrong.
...
The next day, Undyne was hanging out near Gerson’s shop again, trying to grow an echo flower in a pot. “Gerson, do you know who Chara is?”
She kind of popped the question out of nowhere. Gerson just stared for a moment, before laughing with the tiniest hint of bitterness. “Don’t think about it, kiddo.”
“But I wanna know!” Undyne stuck out her tongue. “Don’t make fun of me!!”
“If you meet the ‘storytellers’ on one of your trips to New Home, I take it you’ll learn what monsterkind seems to have glossed over.”
“Is this some kind of weird conspiracy theory?!” demanded Undyne, annoyed. She was ten! She was not a child anymore!
“Just a conspiracy, child,” sighed Gerson, “Just a conspiracy. Learn to tell the difference, down here.”
Undyne…didn’t actually know what a conspiracy was. So whatever he had meant flew right over her.
...
One day Asgore had left a note explaining he was going to visit a friend’s family (someone named Rudy had fallen down) and she could feel free to just walk around and have a good time. A month or so had passed since the incident, and Undyne had mostly stopped thinking about it. But as she was exploring, she found a long staircase that led to a dark, gloomy-looking room with lots of long boxes.
On the lid of the first one, there was a red heart and a name engraved:
“Chara.”
Undyne stared, a strange feeling overtaking her. Something like…remorse? Like a crowd she had just been rioting with had done something truly horrible.
“Would you like to hear the story?”
Undyne turned around. Two Froggits were having some sort of grim tea party. Chills shook her. “Why are you here?”
“We are remembering the first fallen human,” replied the other Froggit. “Would you like to hear their story?”
HUMANS?! Undyne stared. “NO!” she yelled. “Humans are rotten! Why would I want to hear about someone like that?!”
The Froggits looked at each other, and the first one took a sip of tea. “Suit yourself.”
Undyne turned back to the box–a coffin, she now realized, knowing humans used those, and opened it, wondering what humans looked like.
What she saw made her let it fall, immediately. It was nothing. Nothing but mummy wrappings.
Undyne turned and stalked back up all of those stairs, with one resolution on her mind: She would never speak of this. She would never think of this, if she could help it.
But it crossed her mind frequently. She always tried to shove it back down. But it wasn’t easy when Asgore was slipping up her name so frequently. Calling her…
“Chara.”
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