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samasmith23 · 1 year

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Quentin Quire: The Evolution from Morrison to Aaron

Over the past few years I’ve noticed that there’s a fairly sizable group of comic book fans who have taken issue with how the character Quentin Quire has been portrayed since his debut in New X-Men by Grant Morrison. Despite there being a lot of fans like myself who personally enjoyed Quire’s redemptive rehabilitation arc during Jason Aaron’s Wolverine & the X-Men arc into a quirky faux-rebel punk, there are quite a few readers who argue that redeeming Quire is inappropriate since Morrison originally framed them as being akin to a fascistic school-shooter during the Riot at Xaviers arc. I’ve discussed at length before about how I personally didn’t have an issue with future writers like Aaron redeeming Quire, especially since I personally really enjoyed how said-arc was handled in WATXM despite the more comedic shift in tone in regards to Quentin’s personality. However, one thing I recently realized was that despite fan-complaints that Aaron completely misunderstood Quire’s character or completely altered his personality, there are actually some subtle ways in which Aaron’s version of Quire is not only reflective of Morrison’s original characterization of him, but gradually abandons those initial negative traits in order to fulfill a positive-growth character arc.

So I was recently reading through a series of articles by ComicWatch editor Travis Hedge Coke titled “Examining New X-Men,” and in them Coke described Quire in those original Morrison stories as being portrayed as a misogynistic incel, stating that “Quire’s heterosexual jealousy throws him immediately into confrontation with men or boys he deems as challenges for the top position in the eyes of girls and women, he perceives girls and women as prizes as a reward for obtaining the top position… [and he] has incredible telepathic gifts including being subtly and intensely persuasive.”

And I will freely admit that... yeah... this kind misogynistic alpha-male behavior is on full display via Quire not only humiliating his fellow student Slick by essentially outing him telepathically through undoing an illusion of his idealized self due to low self-esteem about his actual appearance (consequently resulting in his girlfriend Tattoo rejecting him), but one of the reasons he staged the entire riot at Xavier’s was in a creepy attempt to impress one of the five Stepford Cuckoos.

Additionally, the article also suggested that Quire was also guilty of outright sexual assault since Slick’s aforementioned ex-girlfriend Tattoo immediately joins Quire’s “Omega Gang” and is madly in love with him, and following the riot one of Quire’s gang members desperately tries to convince Wolverine that they were all being mind-controlled by Quire. While Morrison leaves the story vague about whether or not this was actually true or just another lie from one of Quire’s followers to avoid accountability for their crimes, Xavier did state earlier in the arc that Quire’s telepathic abilities were “deep and subtle enough to influence the minds around him” when discussing his development of a cult-following in the form of the Omega Gang. Coke even went as far as to describe Morrison’s Quire as being akin to a younger, less rapey version of Wolverine’s arch-nemesis Sabretooth. It's also worth noting that there also exists subtle racialized undertones (ontop of gendered ones...) in the original Riot at Xavier's arc considering the white and fascistic Quire's overt manipulations of two Black characters in the form of Slick & Tattoo...

Furthermore, in a separate article for GraphicPolicy by Dani Kinney, despite her more charitable interpretation of Morrison’s Quire as someone who was driven to extremes due to frustration with Xavier’s flawed liberal-centrist approach in response to increasing human violence against other mutants, Kinney still criticizes Quire of being racially biased due to his victimization and exploitation of Slick and Tattoo respectively (both of which Morrison frames as bad things in the comic).

Interestingly, later when Quentin Quire began to undergo a rehabilitation arc in Jason Aaron's run on Wolverine & the X-Men (since Logan recognized Quire’s potential as a gifted student and telepath and didn’t want him to fall down the dark path of a mutant terrorist)...

...whether or Jason Aaron intended to or not he ended up showcasing Quire growing beyond the subtle characteristics of racism and misogyny that Morrison originally depicted during the character’s overtly villainous phase. For instance, throughout WATXM Quire begins to form a legitimate friendship and even romantic relationship with his fellow student Idie Okonkwo. Despite this, their first interaction showcases Quentin falling back on his old negative habits, making awkward pick-up lines and advances at Idie (which she hilariously sarcastically rejects in a nonchalant manner, and even Broo points out the inappropriateness of).

As the series progresses however, Quire begins to recognize Idie not as some prize but as a human being with her own autonomy. This is gradual shift first manifests during a school dance in the AVX tie-ins, where Quire is completely dumbfounded to see Idie uncharacteristically wanting to dance with him, even noting that she previously rejected his advances. This sudden shift in behavior for Idie was due to her worsening struggles with internalized-mutantphobia and religious trauma due to having been forced to kill someone by Cyclops in X-Men: Schism, feelings which were recently exacerbated by the Hellfire Brat’s gaslighting of her to give into what she mistakens to be her true “sinful, monstrous nature” via an android televangelist-style priest.

Quire's concerns Idie’s well-being and mental health only increase following an incident during the Frankenstein Murder Circus arc Idie nearly killing a sorceress a fit of traumatic rage due to she herself once nearly being burned at the stake by her Nigerian Catholic village when she first manifested her mutant powers.

This eventually culminates climatic Hellfire Academy arc wherein Quentin Quire actually infiltrates the Hellfire Brat’s supervillain-training school when he discovered Idie enrolled (both due to her worsening religious trauma and gaslighting, as well as wanting to investigate who shot her friend Broo and reduced him to a feral state), and seeks to rescue her from a that toxic environment. Unfortunately, Quire's rescue attempt backfires and he himself ends up getting captured and thrown into the Hellfire Academy's "detention room."

While Quire at this point hadn’t fully overcome his previous negative characteristics (he’s partially motivated by basic jealousy towards Broo and at one point thinks to himself that he might be forced to “telepathically coax” Idie into fleeing the Hellfire Academy), he simultaneously wants to prevent her from killing Broo’s shooter, as he wants to prevent her from going down a similar dark path that he previously did.

Furthermore, I don’t know if this was intentional or not but Aaron actually kinda sort of portrays Kade Kilgore, the Black King of the Hellfire Brats, as somewhat of a dark foil to Quentin Quire. Kilgore as he’s presented in WATXM is essentially like a younger but wealthier version of the kind of jerk Quire used to be during the Morrison New X-Men run. This is demonstrated not only through Kade expressing disappointment at Quire’s failure to live up to the standards of the supervillain academy due to Quentin’s past track record, but Kade is someone who actively manipulates and gaslights Idie by further feeding into her internalized mutantphobia and guilt over having killed before, all with the intent of influencing her into becoming both a murderous supervillain as well as his Black Queen of the Hellfire Club whom he would “have by his side at all times.”

And these are inappropriate behaviors which Kilgore undoubtedly picked up from his abusive corrupt billionaire father despite his own protestations to the contrary (in X-Men: Schism, Kade’s murder of his father was assisted by a secretary who wanted revenge for Kilgore Sr. sexually harassing her). Plus the Hellfire Club in general has a long history of being manipulative and possessive towards women, like with Jean Grey during the classic Dark Phoenix Saga.

So despite Kade claiming otherwise, the Hellfire Club’s misogynistic and manipulative behavior definitely seems to be generational.

In a sense, Kade Kilgore’s creepy & misogynistic manipulation of Idie is somewhat reflective of how Quire previously mistreated characters like Tattoo & Sophie Cuckoo during Morrison’s run. It also demonstrates that while Aaron mostly portrayed the Hellfire Brats as comedic joke-villains due to them being sociopathic spoiled rich 12-year-olds who murdered their parents and seized control over their corporate assets, he still fleshed out members like Kade Kilgore as being negatively influenced by the sexist & manipulative behaviors of his abusive father.

Fortunately however, Idie rejects both Kilgore’s gross manipulations and her own internalized-mutantphobia. While Idie initally seems to accept Kilgore’s offer of becoming his Black Queen, she did this solely just to trick Kilgore into confessing that he was the one who shot her friend Broo. And although Idie nearly went through with her plan to murder the little creep in retaliation, she he ultimately refuses to give into hatred and bloodshed (brought about by both her past religious trauma and the inhumane teachings of the literal supervillain academy) when she realizes that she is still capable of feeling love and and experiencing happiness after witnessing Toad of all people (he was the janitor at both the Jean Grey School & Hellfire Academy) refusing to kill a mentally unstable & murderous Husk (Paige was experiencing extreme mood swings due to a latent secondary mutation tying her emotions to her skin-shedding/transformation powers) because of the love they had developed for each other in previous issues of the series. Sparring Kilgore’s life, Idie then teams-up with Quire to rebel against and destroy the oppressive Hellfire Academy (a conclusion to WATXM’s running gag of Quire constantly fantasizing about instigating another riot and destroying the Jean Grey School).

And while some fans have argued that Quire & Idie becoming a couple creeped them out due to Idie being younger than him, I don’t have too much of a problem with it since was only a 2-year age gap between the two in Aaron’s run (Idie & Quire were 14 & 16 respectively; this was confirmed by the Jason Latour’s follow-up run on WATXM, which featured Quire having his 17th birthday), and seeing Quentin & Idie develop legitimate feelings for each other as they both underwent positive-change arcs actually felt kind of sweet IMO. Plus, Idie was the one who ultimately had to rescue Quire instead of the other way around due to his own rescue attempt FAILING, and the two co-lead the revolt against the Hellfire Brats.

Essentially, Aaron’s version of Quentin Quire felt like a more mature version of Morrison’s despite his new more comedic faux-rebel personality. Quentin by the end of WATXM was no longer a manipulative incel, but had instead evolved into someone who actually learned to respect the autonomy and personhood of not just women, but women of color in particular. This was something that completely flew over my head when I initially read WATXM, but after reading Travis Hedge Coke’s New X-Men articles I began to notice how vastly different Quire’s attitude and treatment towards Tattoo & Idie were, especially since both characters are Black girls. These are some deeper observations about Quentin Quire’s character development & positive change arc that I truly appreciate, since they make me realize that Aaron seemed to understand Quentin’s character a lot more than a lot of fans give him credit for. Sadly though, all this does seem to be lost on a lot of fans due to not just having prior memories Morrison’s more villainous portrayal of Quire, but also due to series which came after Aaron’s WATXM such as Christina Strain’s run on Generation X apparently having Quentin Quire regress into being rude and condescending towards Idie… sigh, oh well that’s the downside of having different writers with different interpretations I guess…

Overall, I'm not against redeeming Quentin Quire like a lot of other fans are since Wolverine in Jason Aaron's run was following in the footsteps of Charles Xavier's philosophy. Logan wanted to give Quire a second-chance and try and mold him into something better than a potential future mutant-terrorist, which he ultimately ended up succeeding in. And while Quentin still boasts about wanting to be the bad kid who destroys the Jean Grey School, most of it is now him being a faux-pretentious brat as he never exploited any opportunity to do so and instead developed empathy with his fellow students, and over the course of WATXM Quire developed leadership skills and even went out of his way to rescue the X-Men at several points in Aaron's series. His faux-rebel attitude is played more for laughs now.

Plus, the X-Men in general have a long history of trying to redeeming or rehabilitating supervillains like Magneto, Mystique, Juggernaut, and even Apocalypse and Mister Sinister.

So why is Quentin Quire off limits for a redemption arc then? Heck, I'd personally argue that Mister Sinister being allowed a seat on Krakoa's Quite Council is far more egregious considering that in past continuity Sinister was literally a Nazi scientist who was present at the Auschwitz death camp.

That seems far worse to me than Wolverine trying to redeem a delinquent teenager who once staged a half-assed riot at Xaviers...

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nicknackmovies · 6 months

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I don't know if I knew what I wanted this The Flash movie to be. I really wanted a strong Flashpoint adaptation with a Jeffrey Dean Morgan Batman and maybe a truer wrap-up for the DCEU that could clean up a lot of plot threads after the premature ending for the series and maybe, just maybe, explain the next reboot. That would have been a lot and this...this is not that sadly

Full Episode

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obsidianjewel · 2 years

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Are there seriously still people out here who don’t know about that racist retcon of Talia? And those who believe it? Like I'm pretty sure it's not even canon anymore.

Like Talia was a great person for 50 years until some dude with mommy issues decided to demonize her :/

EDIT: Pre-Morrison Talia and Bruce were an actual in love couple with real honest chemistry and romance. And in the original story the child that will become Damian is conceived out of this very intense love.

When Morrison wrote the story, they didn't at all reread or actually look at the story they were referencing, which is how we get the Talia drugged Bruce and stole his sperm story. Which is just a lot of demonizing of a brown woman, it's out of character for her, and it's also reduces Talia to nothing but a pawn of her father with no moral compass of her own. Just generally bad, racist, sexist writing. And Morrison has said as much. The person who wrote it has said that they regret writing it and that it was bad and racist writing.

#talia al ghul #dc comics #cw racism #tw rasicm #bruce wayne #grant morrison #tw rape mention

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fancyfade · 2 years

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The funny thing, Grant Morrison literally took the rape out of canon once they realized what a huge mistake it was. Though TBH, I think I was the difficulty with grey areas: Talia still believes in all of Malthus's ideas, but just has no plans to slaughter people until the world population is under half a billion.

their retcon was not any better (link)

For those who have wondered over the years and it seems many have, the conception of Damian, son of Batman was, in my mind an entirely consensual event! We've taken pains, my artistic collaborators and I, to show that Batman is clearly a willing participant in flashbacks to the event! The running joke is that he denies it, whether to or to hide from responsibility and convince himself that his youthful passion was some result of trickery. I will admit, however, that Talia in those stories dosed the Caped Crusader with something from her arsenal resembling some combination of MDMA and Viagra and doubtless some ingredients of her own devising. She can't help being the Devil's Daughter, after all! Nevertheless, they were genuinely crazy about one another… but it would take a lot to melt the glacier walls of experience that separates them now.

like sure she still drugged him (she can't help but being 'the devil's daughter') but bruce is just lying about it????? like they can't just say 'hey my bad i misremembered and wrote something with horrible implications' they're just like 'noooooo it was totally consensual guys trust me there was totally subtext indicating that (even tho there wasn't)'

wrt whatever malthus is i have no clue what you're talking about. if this is modern talia i haven't been reading checkmate or shadow war

#rape cw #drugs cw #anon #ask #grant morrison

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longwuzhere · 8 months

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Some cool Easter eggs I caught watching My Adventures with Superman that I want to show to people so they can be in on it with comic book readers

My episode 1 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My episode 2 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My episode 3 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My episode 4 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My episode 5 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My Episode 6 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My second half of Episode 7 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My Episode 8 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My Episode 9 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My Episode 10 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

(SPOILERS if you haven't seen the show yet):

We start things off with the title of the episode, "Kiss Kiss Fall in Portal" a fun nod to the lyrics of Ouran High School Host club's OP, Sakura Kiss by Chieko Kawabe. Very apt since Clark wanted to show the cherry blossoms to Lois on their date.

Next Jimmy razzing Clark for his extremely scheduled date plans for Lois and razzing Lois for her gift to Clark. Each of them reference what happened in previous episodes. With the first thing Clark and Lois I talked about it here and the second thing Clark mentioned I talked about it here.

After we cut back from Lois and Jimmy picking up Lois's dry cleaning, we meet the villain of the episode, Mr. Mxyztplk. In the comics, Mxy makes his first appearance in Superman #30 (1944) by Joe Shuster, Jerry Seigel, and Ira Yarbrough as you can see in the page above this text. Mxy is a 5th dimension imp who plays jokes and pranks on Superman and can only be rid of if Mxy says his name backwards. Yeah Mxy is a MAJORLY annoying thorn at Clarks side. MAwS Mxy, as you can tell has a DRASTIC overhaul in design kinda shares color and design choices with Whis from the Dragon Ball Super anime. Also in the show Mxy is a chaos god compared to the annoying imp in the comics.

Classic way to describe Clark Kent. That's a given in any Superman media.

Next we see Mxy mess with Clark by snapping him into his various Superman animation incarnations from the Max Fleischer cartoons, the Superfriends cartoons, and the cartoon that introduced Superman to me, Superman the Animated Series. Shout out to the MAwS team for remembering to give StAS Superman the darker trunks. People often forget that. Same with the red belt on the Fleisher Superman and the cape circling behind the neck of Superfriends Superman when usually the cape exposes the next a lot more too. Very good attention to detail.

With Lois and Jimmy they meet alternate versions of themselves. We meet two different Loises and one Louis Lane. There actually is a Louis Lane in the comics who has connections to Mxyzptlk.

In Superman #349 (1980) (W: Martin Pasko, P: Curt Swan, I: Frank Chiaramonte, C: Adrienne Roy, L: Ben Oda), Clark is forced into a genderbent world thanks to Mxyzptlk where he meets, as you can see on the page, gender flipped versions of his Daily Planet colleagues. Clark is eventually able to escape the world and defeat Mxy where he actually meet Louis Lane, Lois Lane's legit cousin. Bonus fun fact Osric Chau who voices Louis Lane, was the Atom/Ryan Choi on the CW DC shows

The League of Loises have a ship that's kinda similar to one of the ships designed by Rian Hughes and Grant Morrison on the Multiverse Map. I talked more about that map and the multiverse here

Lois Prime here shares similar designs to Fleischer Studios' Lois Lane. Very good homage to the look.

Next scene is EASTER EGGS GALORE and the section that took the longest for me to do. When Mxy and Clark break into the Science and Superhero Museum that Lois Prime created, we see a mace and an elaborately designed box of some sort. If you know your DC universe, these two things are a Thanagarian (alien hawk people) Nth Metal (strongest metal in the DC universe) Maces that is usually wielded by Hawkman and Hawkwoman/girl (as you can see both of them wielding their own respective maces on the comic covers here. The first one is from Justice League #15 (2019) done by Jim Cheung Tomey Moreu and the second cover is from Hawkman #1 (2018) done by Stjepan Šejić) and the box is a Mother Box from the New Gods. The Nth Metal mace makes its first debut in the Brave and the Bold #34 (1961) though it resembles more like flails and even then the Nth metal mace is a morningstar, but its alien technology maybe Thanagarians call these weapons maces where here we call it a morningstar.

Mother Boxes are basically supercomputers that the New Gods use. Created by Jack Kirby and debuted in the Forever People #1 (1971), Mother Boxes have a wide range of uses from energy and molecule manipulation, energy transferring, Boom Tube summoning to travel inter-dimensionally or inter-/intra- galactically, machine manipulation. The page from Who's Who-The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe #16 (1986) explains what a Mother Box is in full detail.

The camera then shifts and we see a Green Lantern Power Battery, a T-Sphere, and a book on display. The farthest item is an obvious one, a Power Battery that Green Lantern uses to recharge the Power Ring. This version of the Power Battery and Green Lantern make their debut in Showcase 22 (1959). The final two panels from the comic (W: Jon Broome, P: Gil Kane, I: Joe Giella, L: Gaspar Saladino) shows Hal Jordan recharging the ring with the Power Battery.

T-Spheres are floating spheres used by Mr. Terrific aka Michael Holt. These spheres can form laser grids, act as sensor arrays, bombs, record video and audio, hack into computers, display holograms, and discharge electricity to shock things or people. They make their debut in JSA #11 (2000) as seen there in the middle two panels (W: Geoff Johns, David Goyer, P: Buzz, I: Michael Bair, C: John Kalisz, L: Ken Lopez).

The book is a little harder to pinpoint, but my guess is this is the Book of Souls/the Cosmic Log/The Book of Destiny. If Lois Prime is able to find all this stuff and is able to preserve it in a museum, I wouldn't be surprised if Destiny of the Endless gave her an inert copy of the book for the museum. The book makes its debut in Weird Mystery Tales #1 (1972) (Page art by Michael Kaluta). The book records everything that is, was, and will be. If you haven't read the comics, you might have seen it be used on the CW DC shows rewriting the histories of their characters.

Ok so at the moment I am near the end of my 30 images limit so I will be making another post to hopefully finish the rest, but in the meantime, now that you are down here, feel free to check out the other easter eggs and references posts -

My episode 1 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My episode 2 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My episode 3 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My episode 4 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My episode 5 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My Episode 6 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My second half of Episode 7 easter egs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My Episode 8 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My Episode 9 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

My Episode 10 easter eggs and references in My Adventures with Superman post is here

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buffyfan145 · 1 year

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Loved seeing "Titans" bring in the multiverse and have all those cameos!!! :D Plus this being 6 days before "The Flash" show is bringing it back in their next episode and before "The Flash" movie uses it in the films in June. Nice to see them include the animated shows, as well as hinting our Earth is also in the multiverse by actually having one of the comics' writers interact with Gar, as I don't remember the Arrowverse doing that if the different Earths mentioned or shown. Below are the ones I noticed and I've seen others point out as well, and there was a shoutout to Vixen too before Gar entered the multiverse.

Grant Gustin's Flash Brec Bassinger's Stargirl DC Universe's "Swamp Thing" series Zachary Levi's Shazam Comic creator Grant Morrison Beast Boy from "Teen Titans Go" Audio of Harley Quinn from the HBO Max cartoon Audio of Arthur Fleck's "Joker" Audio of Jack Nicholson's Joker from 1989 "Batman" Audio of Cesar Romero's Joker from 1960s "Batman" TV show Audio of Dr. Fate from "Smallville" Audio of Jonathan Kent from Christopher Reeves' "Superman" Cyborg of "Doom Patrol"

Curious to see how this plays out in the final 3 episodes, with "Doom Patrol" ending too, then with the CW shows, and then "The Flash" movie.

#titans #dc comics #gar logan #beast boy #the flash #stargirl

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thevindicativevordan · 8 months

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Why do you think Joshua Williamson gets so much hate as a comics writer ? I feel like he's such a divisive writer with some people having actual seething contempt for his works, but aside from writing some not so stellar stories, what did he do to earn the hatred that he seems to get ?

It’s a mix of seething envy that he got the big break and their favs didn’t + a little of this:

Now Williamson has written some pretty shitty books, no one is claiming otherwise. Dark Crisis sucked (aside from the Jon Kent portions which ruled). Deathstroke, Inc sucked. Justice League Incarnate was mediocre. Knight Terrors is apparently mediocre (aside from his Superman tie-ins which I enjoyed, I’m not reading it). He’s not a good event writer, he doesn’t understand high-level Morrison concepts, and he can be the worst kind of fanboy - bringing back Pariah and the Infinite multiverse like anyone cared, talking up the Titans, JSA, and importance of legacy while failing to do anything with any of those - but he’s written plenty of great stuff too. He’s one of two writers who demonstrated the potential of Jon as Superman in Future State JL and Dark Crisis.

Something about Superman brings out the best in Williamson. His Robin book was the most enjoyable use of Damian since Tomasi/Gleason B&R. His Superman book is one of my favorite Big 2 books right now period. He’s had great success in the indie sphere with Birthright and Dark Ride. There’s a reason he got to where he is, as much as some people would rather it was someone else.

At least one guy who hates Williamson was out shilling every garbage book that Steve Orlando put out as the greatest thing ever, and how DARE DC not put the guy who wrote a boring CW synergy Supergirl book on Superman proper. Same people screaming about Shush like it murdered their mother are slobbering over Rek-Rap like that character isn’t just as fucking stupid. I can’t take their hate for Williamson seriously. They just irrationally hate the man, if it was Orlando or Ewing’s name on the main Superman book right now they’d be all over it (and Williamson Superman easily laps X-Men Red or Defenders for me). Same people who defend Zeb Wells ASM would be tearing it to shreds if Williamson’s name was on the cover.

Suppose it’s hypocritical for me to judge them too harshly since I’ve made no secret that I detest Taylor’s handling of Superman and the Super Mythos. But I still am able to enjoy some of Taylor’s work! And I don’t act like Taylor is a bad person, which I feel some of Williamson’s haters are dangerously close to doing. Williamson does good work (at the Big 2 anyway) when he’s writing character focused action stories with an eye towards acknowledging continuity. That’s where he shines and where I most enjoy his work. At worst he writes boring mediocre stories that don’t live up to their potential, but are easily forgotten. Anyone who acts like that makes him the worst writer at the Big 2 currently is a hyperbolic idiot I can’t take seriously. Al Ewing, Ram V, Jonathan Hickman, even Grant Morrison or Mark Waid have been guilty of that sin.

#joshua williamson

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venus-of-the-hrdsell · 2 years

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Ok so I’ve got a few questions! So I like the character of John Constantine but I will admit I don’t know as much about him as a should. Like most I know about him is from the CW and comic book fans who right fanfiction and timblr blogs like you. I’ve a read few hellblazer comics (barely touched the new 52) but what hellblazer stories would you suggest I read? Should I just start from the beginning and read? I would just read the whole thing but I have ADHD and struggle to read. I think the only full hellblazer arc I’ve read is the one with John’s three demon children. My other question is what fanon things about John Constantine do you hate the most? I know you and MilfZatanna don’t like John being a slutty bisexual, but what else as well?

Hello! Also I don't blame you (fellow ADHD person here), the comic is super long and it has hit or misses when it comes to writing at times. It took me long time to complete the whole series so I think you could test the waters first with a few stories. It's a horror book, the original run is dated in a few bits, so proceed with caution. If you need any specific trigger warnings you can ask me!

If you want to get into classic Hellblazer, there are a few essential arcs I can remember

For Hellblazer (1988)

- Original Sins (#1-#9)

- The Devil You Know (10-13, with tie-ins with Swamp Thing 76-77 (tw for Sexual assault on these last two mentioned, though, I personally dislike those tie ins even if they bring context, so you can just read Hellblazer and skip them)

- The Fear Machine (14-22)

- The family Man (23-24, 28-31)

- Dangerous Habits (41-46) (I started in here, it's easily the most famous storyline for John, this was the base inspiration for Keanu Reeves' Constantine in 2005. After I finished this one I jumped back to the start of the comics).

Bonus short stories inside the run I loved:

- Early Warning/How I Learned To love the Bomb (#25-26). Good horror story by Grant Morrison. Very anxiety inducing and fucked up, a big social call out to nuclear weapons and it's very worth the read.

- Hold me (#27) by Neil Gaiman. Easily one of the best stories for Constantine ever. Very heart wrecking. If you enjoyed the Sandman, you will like this story.

- Forty (#63): John's 40th birthday! A very fun issue. You will see Swamp Thing, Zatanna and other friends on his birthday party, one of my favourite issues from the run.

Now these are personal favourites. People usually recommend Jaime Delano's and Garth Ennis' runs for Hellblazer, but I get that reading so much can be tiring. If you really want to fully into John, I'm dropping my friend's reading list here, she lists all the good runs + the essential arcs on each one of them.

Comics outside the main run I would recommend

- Constantine: City of Demons (mini). It's an elseworld if I remember right, but it's a fun read.

- Constantine: All His Engines (graphic novel). Written By Mike Carey, easily one of my favourite writers for John. It's a stand alone story and it was the base inspiration for the City of Demons animated movie.

- Books of Magic by Neil Gaiman (1990) + Hellblazer/ Books of Magic (1997, crossover). Both recommendations focus on Tim Hunter, but John is a big player on both titles. The second one focuses a lot on John's troubled past and it's a good character exploration.

- Dark Entries by Ian Rankin. Graphic Novel. John is lured to get into a closed set reality show and he soon realises he has been lead into a trap among the other contestants. He's now stuck on a demon lead reality show and has to find his way out. This was like watching a horror movie, I really enjoyed it.

Recommendations post Vertigo

Constantine: The Hellblazer (2015): New 52 wasn't a good period for Constantine. Going from mischaracterisation to boiling him down to essential traits at the point of seeming cartoon-y. BUT this comic in particular felt a bit closer to the old John. It's not Vertigo Constantine, but it's a good read and it feels like a modern reinvention of the old John. This is the first time his bisexuality is addressed in a decent way, too.

- Sandman Universe presents: Hellblazer (2019) (One shot) + John Constantine: Hellblazer (2019) by Si Spurrier (should be read together).

So this comic is easily the best run Constantine has had since his Vertigo days. It's basically the original Constantine, perfectly adapted and translated to modern days. Criminally short but it's great and I recommend it for beginners too.

I'm sorry if got a bit carried away by the recommendations, I hope this helps because I understand it's a lot of material so it's great to test waters first.

As for the fanon things, I think I mainly don't like how they've boiled down John to very simple traits now? It's a topic I could talk all day, but that's basically it. Everyone knows him as the "asshole, quirky magic man who is unbelievably powerful, the go-to Wizard of the DC universe"

Which is wrong because, John has been the odd man out most of the time. He either doesn't get called by the big magic leagues because of his untrustworthy reputation or because he himself doesn't like to be grouped with big magicians. Right, he can make his way on wealthy circles when it's beneficial to him, but he is basically the embodiment of the working class.

There's also the misconception that he is a "bad magic user". Don't take me wrong, he's not as powerful as characters like Zatanna, Doctor Fate and Co., but his magic knowledge is huge. He's a self taught occultist and he spent years perfecting his craft. He can use magic, but he will use it as a last resort. (Biggest examples of his magic is the use of hypnosis, illusions and Synchronicity manipulation, I will have to explaine the last one later).

John doesn't always get his love interest killed either. This has been used as a excuse to not give him a well rounded (and long lasting) male love interest, but truth is that John does indeed messes his relationships up, but they do not end up in deadly fates 100% of the time. If anything, at least 3-4 of John's female love interests have had main roles on the original comic runs (Zed, Kit, Dani, Angie).

Don't get me wrong, John is very open about his sexuality, but the notion of him flirting with every person he meets is...weird. He is a charming man, he has chemistry with people, but that's it. He has mainly been on monogamous relationships as much we are told, and his interactions with threesomes have been one night stands and so on (I'm ignoring the existence of Nick Necro💗) . In summary: he's confident on his sexuality, but he isn't as promiscuos as people paint him to be. He has had stable relationships.

Another misconception: John isn't mentor material, I'm sorry to break the headcanons. He has said he doesn't feel comfortable or likes kids, but he is an unreliable narrator. He is kind to them, but his trauma related to Newcastle and Astra makes him tag himself as someone unsafe and unworthy of being around them (also linked to the past domestic abuse done by his father, Thomas). As said before: he's scared of commitment in every aspect of his life for this reason.

There's also a misconception and also weird thing that people have about saying "Constantine doesn't care anyone but himself, he doesn't have any friends nor he loves anyone" and "Everyone he loves die"

That's the thing about him. He's a very social person. He actually has friends, he has relatives, he has had a lot of partners. But John is self destructive and has fear of commitment and his magic background doesn't help. He builds bridges as fast as he burns them. He cares about people a lot and for that reason he self sabotages his relationships because he either feels unworthy of love or "I better mess this up before they get caught on my magic bullshit and end up dead".

So yeah the situation with John on this case is more nuanced. He experiences a lot of lost on his life, a lot of it's self sabotages, some of it is sacrifice, and the part left is a casualty of collateral damage of his plans.

I got a biiiit carried away but I hope I could help a bit with this 🙏

#I'm sorry for taking long I've just got back home but im happy to help any time #johnstantine #answered #long post #u can rb

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fictionkinfessions · 3 years

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half of the time when i look at grant morrison i think "oh cool funky comic guy" and the other half of the time i think "LMAO GUYS LOOK IT'S THE FUCKING EGGSTERMINATOR"

(korse if you're reading this im not sorry for calling you that. you killed me im allowed to make fun of you)

-party poison #🍭✨😈💥

#fictionkinfessions #fictionkin #🍭✨😈💥#partypoisonkin #dangerdayskin #cap cw #grant morrison cw #chara hate #murder cw #mod party cat!

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thecomicon · 3 years

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Azie Tesfai's Kelly Olsen To Become The New Guardian On 'Supergirl'

Azie Tesfai’s Kelly Olsen To Become The New Guardian On ‘Supergirl’

It was only a matter of time before Kelly Olsen (Azie Tesfai) joined the Superfriends. Deadline reports the character will debut as The Guardian sometime in the latter half of Supergirl‘s final season. As seen in the above photo, she’s going for more of the golden color scheme than her brother James (Mechad Brooks) used during his time in the heroic persona. Indeed, it is interesting to see The…

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#Azie Tesfai #David Ramsey #Grant Morrison #J. Holtham #Jack Kirby #Joe Simon #Mechad Brooks #Supergirl #The CW

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xmbulance · 4 years

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i could make a much deeper posts abt it and i will one day but a lot of gerard´s hate towards rockstars and that type of lifestyle comes from experiencing it himself

#yknow in between tbp and ddays #partially trying to be separated from the band doing one men´s magazine photoshoot #grant morrison calling him a rockstar and ´you gotta be aware of it and enjoy it´ and him being like ´fuck yeah´#then talking abt sobriety not being ´a thing´ for him and all that #also cw being like fuck those posers in tbp #cause like it was this whole no concept no costumes stuff #also theres a gerard quote where he says " i learned that the world doesnt want to be saved and it will fucking punch you in the face if you #yknow he was one for a short amount of time which lead to a bad place so #i understan the hate (?

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fancyfade · 5 years

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1,4,5,6,11,14,17,18,22,23,26 any fandom you'd like (i don't know much about DC comics, but you're enjoying yourself so talk about what you're enjoying atm :D)

omg a ton of asks :D and thanks for giving me permission to ramble on about DC lol (asks from here:)

1 already answered here

4 Do you have a NoTP in your fandom? Are they a popular OTP?

Yes. Spitfire (Artemis/Wally West in young justice) is a NoTP and also somehow popular in fandom as well so bleh -_-

5 already answered here

6 Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated?

I’m not sure about enjoy, but it made me not hate the idea of Bruce/Talia when I learned that Talia’s character was overhauled for Grant Morrison’s thing, and she used to be very different and a lot more morally grey/anti-heroine than villain-ball-carrying (Grant Morrison decided Talia drugged and raped Bruce to conceive Damian. Most stuff before he came along had them having a consensual relationship where they genuinely seemed to like each other, including the story that inspired it, Son of the Demon). Obviously this only works if you “x” out all of Grant Morrison’s Talia additions from canon, because otherwise their relationship would still be creepy and toxic as hell. But given how post-morrison Talia often acts completely different from pre-morrison, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to discount it for her interpretation.

11 Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

I’m not sure if fandom doesn’t like her, but I’ll go with Maya Ducard again. For the most part, people don’t talk about her. It also seems like when they’re doing Damian’s best friend, they include Jon/Superboy so much more than they do Maya, and nothing against Jon, but Damian’s willing to call Maya his family in canon. They obviously have a really strong relationship.

14 Unpopular opinion about your fandom?

(lots of) Jason Todd Stans are the worst. I’m pretty neutral/slightly positive towards the character depending on the interpretation, but then you go around and see stuff like “some people commit murder to cope” or “Maybe he has a ton to teach to Cass about moral ambiguity” when Cass already knows about killing people and decided not to and it’s not like she’s going to say “Oh so now I see why murder is okay” and aaaaaaaaaaaa

Anyway it seems like often the other characters are kind of made OOC for his interactions in fandom so. I don’t like that part of it.

17 already answered here

18 Does not shipping something ‘popular’ mean you’re in denial and/or biased?

Definitely not lol, sometimes ships that are popular are worse (insert that meme).

22, 23 already answered here

26 Most shippable character?

I’m not sure for DC, since I’ve mentioned before I don’t have a ton of DC ships. So we’ll go with SWTOR and i’ll pick one of my OCs: Tank. She’s big and buff and super friendly and can get along with most people who aren’t tools.

#rape cw #ask #ahlvister #um not sure what else to tag this #tag 2 #tag 3 #dc comics #swtor #tumblr games #jason todd #fandom #maya ducard #spitfire negative #talia al ghul #grant morrison

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