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#grapehate
crossdressingdeath · 2 years
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The biggest nonesense in mdzs fandom is the fact we have to tag things 'grapehate' or 'anti-jc' when talking about JC (THE CANON ANTAGONIST) in a not favourable. Maybe it's the fact that I've been in just few fandoms so I'm kinda inexperienced but it's just so bizarre to me
Yes! It's so wildly bizarre! When you're talking about how a character is canonically undeniably explicitly a serial killer in the story you should not have to tag it as negative towards that character! They're an antagonist, that is the point of them! It's like if I had to tag posts as "anti Hannibal" whenever I mentioned that he eats people! Why do I have to jump through hoops to avoid being screamed at for saying an antagonist who wanted to murder a child because WWX decided saving him and his family was more important than being JC's pet genius is a bad person!
Like, I don't technically have to use a separate tag? I could use the main JC tag if I wanted, and even if the JC stans weren't Like That but he was still super popular for some inexplicable reason I probably would still use a separate tag to be polite. But the fact that I have to use a separate tag if I want to avoid a bunch of (let's be real here) probably mostly children screaming in my asks about how I'm a horrible person for saying the canonical mass murderer maybe isn't a super nice dude who deserves better is... not fantastic, I'm not gonna lie.
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kshithi-and-stories · 2 years
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Promises vs Morals
Wei Ying breaking of his so called “Twin Pride” promise is something JC stans and even JC himself aggressively hold on to. It is the example they give to prove how JC was a poor fellow abandoned by his brother over a broken promise. JC brings this up as an argument when everything else fails in the Guniang temple. 
Let us ignore the circumstances in which that promise was made. Let us also ignore the situations and arguments that led to this promise. Let us forget about how invalid that promise is and how that promise is always interpreted differently by JC. Let us, for the sake of this argument consider that JC and Wei Ying were good brothers once and this promise was between two brothers. 
So what if Wei Ying gave his promise and then broke it? Are promises more important than innocent human lives? Which is more important? Breaking a promise or saving lives? And was it only Wei Ying who broke this promise? It is about the “Twin Pride” and not “One pride and one follower”. If you call someone your brother, then you have his back. It is an implicit promise. If JC had not broken the implicit promise of brotherhood and abandoned his morals and his so called brother, this promise would been kept.  
Many fans seems to believe that JC abandoned WY to save his sect. Fine, let us believe this to be true for a moment. In that case, JC has no right to blame WY for breaking his promise. WY choose to save innocent wens and broke his promise to JC. Similarly, JC choose to save his sect and broke his promise of brotherhood. So, even from this angle, JC should not have any complains.   
Forget about all this. We will only talk about WY breaking his promise. Here, I would like to give an example from one of the greatest epic ever “Mahabharat” from my country. Once there was a prince who was about to be declared as the heir to the throne. He was the only son of his king-father Shantanu. This king falls in love with a fisher woman and wants to marry her. Her father asks for one condition for the marriage: her son should be the next king. In order to save his father from heartbreak, the prince vows that he will never be the king and he will never marry so that his sons will not contest for the throne later.  He also promises to be a servant of the throne instead of a prince.
Years pass by. The fisher woman has two sons and both of them die one after the other. The whole kingdom is doomed without a king or a heir. The prince refuses to break his promise to take the throne. He arranges for other means to have heirs. Among the latest generation of heirs, one is blind, one is very pale, and one is a son of servant. Even though the blind heir is the oldest, his younger brother is made the king. This new king dies soon after. And the saga continues. Everything ends up in a huge war which wipes out the entire continent. 
This is what the Lord Krishna has to the prince who made the vow in the beginning. “When you made your promise, the circumstances were different. When your half brothers died without heirs, you refused to become the king. You refused to break your promise of being a servant and use your strength to usurp the next generation king when he was not doing his duty to his kingdom. It was the common people in your kingdom who suffered in the end. Once your promise was your strength of character. Later the same promises became the chains that stopped you from doing what is right.  What use is a promise when your strength and prowess is not used for the betterment of your kingdom?” Of course, I am over simplifying a lot of things. The story is much more complex. 
But it makes the same point. So what if WY broke his promise? Saving innocent lives and using his powers for the better is always the right choice in the end. 
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flautistsandpeonies · 2 years
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Jiang Cheng: I’m not helping you. Kill this infant, that old woman, all these disabled people, and burn this corpse or you’re not allowed back in YunmengJiang.
Wei WuXian: Guess I’m not allowed back in YunmengJiang.
This Fucking Fandom: Wei WuXian is SO SELFISH, he doesn’t think about anything other than having fun and playing the hero!
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sad-weiying · 2 years
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gods grant me patience
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drawing-kitty1 · 3 years
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Mdzs has a great variety and amazing flavors of tsunderes such as:
- "the big brother" tsundere Nie Mingjue
- the "I told my crush to get the F out of my school" tsundere Lan Wangji
- the "grumpy old man" tsundere Lan Qiren
- the "lesbian BDE" tsundere Wen Qing
- the "tsundere because socially awkward" Jin Zixuan
- the " rich spoiled brat on the outside, heart of gold on the inside" tsundere Jin Ling
But for some reason the Fandom worships Jiang Cheng as the purple grape uwu baby tsundere in mdzs, truly disappointing tbh
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wangxian-trash-001 · 3 years
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I see sh*t tagged with
"Jiang Cheng deserved better"
And it's goddamn post-cannon
and I just...
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rynne · 3 years
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I always wince a little when I see fic or tumblr takes set after WWX's death featuring JC as an uncle to A-Yuan. JC was one of the two people in the story to actually go up to the Burial Mounds and see the people living there. He knew there was a kid, but he didn't care. The novel even said that JC "had no love in him at all" for A-Yuan.
By the time WWX died, depending on your canon, JC has either led a siege against A-Yuan's family, knowing that a kid was there and the other Wens were non-combatants, or he has at best stood by while A-Yuan's family was killed, after having made no effort to improve the situation for the Wens. Once WWX is resurrected, JC shows no indications of remorse in any canon, and at least in the novel is shown to have doubled down on his hatred of all Wens, whether they were actually related to the former Wen Sect or not.
It's one thing if the story is an AU from an earlier point in time, where JC is established as being a better brother-figure to WWX who shows openness to loving A-Yuan as a nephew. That's just not the case if the story has gone as far as WWX's canon death. That version of JC doesn't deserve A-Yuan as a nephew, and I hate seeing his treatment of A-Yuan's family and A-Yuan himself just glossed over.
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deistarr · 3 years
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So tired of all the people who seem to think that WWX should be grateful to be abused by JC, because apparently abuse is his love language so that makes everything okay.
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dew-in-the-morning · 3 years
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Sometimes I think about Jiang Cheng stabbing Wei Wuxian (so badly that wwx's guts literally spilled out) in a fake fight, when WWX broke his left arm so it wouldn't inconvenience him, and then how he went and told everyone that WWX was the enemy of the cultivation world when WWX told him that he was going to leave the Jiang sect. And his stans still try to make this looks like WWX's fault.
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ladyhuntress1213 · 3 years
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I think most of an certain toxic abusive grapes issues stem from an lack of size/girth in the pecker department. And his behavior is an way of compensating for that.
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pineappleisgod · 3 years
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just saw someone say wwx had no morals, then turn around and go "stan!! jiang cheng!!" like,, babe
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crossdressingdeath · 2 years
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Hello, sorry to vent in your ask, but I’m very salty recently about how people interpret WWX’s character. “Oh he only did good things because he wanted to be perceived as good 🙄” or “His selflessness is just proof that he’s selfish.” What does it mean! How can selflessness be proof of selfishness? Why is it bad to do good things?? I see it a lot from JC fans in particular because apparently WWX doing good things is an attack on JC because it makes him look bad by comparison. Isn’t that JC’s own fault for not doing good things? Maybe he would look like a good person if he did good things? I’m so vexed.
Now, to be entirely fair the concept of self-sacrifice as an act of selfishness is a very fascinating thing to add in. There's a lot you can do with that and it can add a lot of depth to a character that might otherwise be pretty flat. Same with a character doing good because they want to be perceived as good rather than because they are good. Both are fascinating character options! They can raise a lot of questions about the relative morality of a character and some interesting points about whether doing good or being good is more important! The thing is, neither of them apply to WWX. WWX performs selfless acts because he's selfless (and at least partially because the Jiangs conditioned him to give up everything for them, but that's only in a few cases), and he does good things because he is good. He's the POV character! If he was putting on an act to make himself look good or make JC look bad, we would know! We are literally told what he's thinking, and there's no evidence he's lying to himself beyond him doing good things making JC look bad, which you're right is a reflection on JC, not WWX. Like, if a character just doing good things makes your fave look bad maybe you should... consider your fave's morality a little more closely...? Like, the argument really does seem to be that JC is a perfect precious angel who can do no wrong, but also WWX doing any good, kind or selfless thing for anyone ever makes JC look bad, and the disconnect there doesn't ever seem to get... noticed by the stans. If the slightest kind act from another person for anyone ever is apparently clearly calculated to make JC look bad, then clearly JC... isn't doing the slightest kind act for anyone ever. And this is... y'know, bad? Makes JC look pretty awful that that's a thing you're seriously arguing? Not helping your case here, guys.
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kshithi-and-stories · 2 years
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Lan Yuan and Jin Ling
You can see the difference between Lan WangJi and Jiang Cheng in the way they brought up Lan Yuan and Jin Ling. I am sure Lan Xichen and Jin Guangyao also influenced these kids which again acts as a contrast. 
Both Lan Yaun and Jin Ling had childhood traumas. But Lan Yuan is well adjusted, calm, and assertive. He takes charge when situation calls for it. He is a natural born leader. He never judges people. He is open minded. He respects others. He has strong morals and ethics. He is someone who Wei Ying would be proud of. On the other hand Jin Ling is a angry all the time, judges people, treats people who are beneath him very rudely and aggressively.  He is a closed minded individual. 
Lan WangJi never let his grief of losing the person he loved affect Lan Yuan. He honored Wei Ying’s memory and he helped common people. He did not close himself. You cannot deny his influence on the next generation of Lan disciples.  On the other hand JC stewed in his own hatred and treated the only son of his sister like crap. He disrespected his sister’s love and memory. 
It is very telling the way Wei Ying observes these two kids before he knew who they were. He compliments the person who raised Lan Yuan. He is very impressed by this Lan kid. On the other hand, Wei Ying is not at all impressed with Jin Ling and his attitude and his show of wealth on a night hunt. 
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flautistsandpeonies · 3 years
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Anytime I see a “Jiang Fengmian favored Wei WuXian over Jiang Cheng” take I have to laugh, cause it’s literally one of the dumbest things you could say.
JFM:
-Apparently bought WWX new clothes after he found him, but couldn’t be arsed to check if his shoes actually fit him.
-Let WWX be whipped with Zidian, a first class spiritual weapon. He gets whipped for something as stupid as not wearing a shirt on a hot summer’s day.
-If his wife doesn’t whip him, then forces him to kneel in the ancestral hall for hours until he gets home late and lets him out.
-Willingly lets him walk into a hostage situation, saying “It’s his choice”.
-His last words to him were literally an order to take care of his son.
The nicest things JFM has done for Wei WuXian other than taking him off the streets are: -Sending away the dogs -Paying his tab with the vendors at the end of the month
Comparing that to eight years of his flesh being flayed off, and you think he favors this boy?
One has to laugh.
JC Stans Don’t Clown on my Posts
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brydeswhale · 3 years
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Caught up on that stupid fic I’ve been complaining about and, wow, big surprise, Jiang Cheng still gets to treat all his loved ones like shit and never gets called on it, amazing, wow, great writing.
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m3mento-m0ri · 3 years
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hii ヾ(^∇^) did you end up finding any fics abt jc being asshole. i saw ur post in grapehate tag and i am Looking
hi! sorry it took so long. unfortunately there’s not a lot of anti jc fics that i could find, but here are a few that i really liked.
Twin Treasures by @crossdressingdeath
If Wei Wuxian Did Not Exist by Anonymous (disclaimer: i haven’t read this one yet, but I heard it’s good)
Not This Time by Marinelifeclub
these are mostly focused on wangxian, but they’re also very anti jiang cheng. if anyone else has any recs, feel free to leave a comment :)
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